All right, cool. >> All right, what's your name on >> Britney? Did I spell it right? Y. Is that a N Y at the end? >> It is now. All right. >> What's your last name? >> DNY. G O S N E Y. >> What's your date of birth? >> 25 92. >> And your social? All right. So, tell me what's going on. What happened here? I'm Detective Hoover. Okay. They call me, my partner out for anything to do with children, missing children, children that have been abused, whatever. That's what me and one other guy do here at the PD. Okay. So, this is real important. in this part is you have to be 100% honest with me with everything, okay? Cuz we don't have this. We're missing a six-year-old little boy and we're trying to figure out where he's at. I got to make sure he's safe, okay? So, you know, your cooperation goes a long long way, okay? But you have to be honest with me with everything, no matter what the circumstances are, okay? So, you can remove your mask if you would if you don't care. Do you care to take off your mask? Okay. >> As long as you don't have co >> I don't. Do you? >> No. >> Then we're good. Okay. So, what happened? What time did you guys go to bed last night? >> Well, the kids go to bed at 9:00. >> Okay. >> And we normally go to bed at 10:00. >> Mhm. >> Um, last time I knew I told them told them all it was 9 9:00 time for bed. >> So, they all went upstairs to the rooms >> and I went upstairs a little bit later to see if they were asleep. >> Sure. >> And they were all asleep. So then that's when I came down, waited a couple minutes just to see if they might have come downstairs or something and then I went to bed. >> Okay. What time did you get up this morning? >> Um, he woke me up at 8. >> He woke you up at 8. Uh, did he wake you up anytime before that to say that uh James was missing? >> Not that I remember. I >> He said he tried to wake me up several times, but But you don't >> medicine. So >> what kind of medicine do you take? >> I take anxiety meds. >> Okay. I do too. So uh what's it called? What do you take? >> Um hydroxyine three times a day. And I take this blue pill. I don't know what the blue pill's called. Okay. At night time. >> This is where I need you to be honest with me. It is what it is. Okay. Do you use any other type of narcotics, drugs, illegal drugs, or anything? Do you smoke weed? Do you >> Okay. You don't use heroin. You don't use u >> No. I've had family members that away from that stuff and >> Okay. Do you know >> that pushes me away? >> Do you know if you're um boyfriend does he use any type of dope at all? >> Not that you know of. Well, you would know more than anybody. That's why I'm asking. You're not going to get him in any trouble. I just need to know if you're being honest with me. That's what I'm trying to feel. I've never seen it. I mean, we smoke cigarettes. >> I'm not talking about that. I said drugs, illegal drugs. Um, >> of course, a lot of people smoke cigarettes. A lot of people smoke weed. A lot of people you say >> I mean, he smokes weed, but that's the only thing I know. >> Okay, that's all. >> I don't know if he does anything else. >> Okay, you don't need to protect him. I'm just getting I'm getting a feel for you if you're going to be honest. I just need you to be honest with me. Honestly, don't overread into any of my questions, okay? I promise you. Um, so he wakes you up at 8 and tells you what or you wake up. Do you wake up on your own at 8 or does he wake you up at 8? >> Well, he woke me up and cuz he went looking around first. He said he had come in there several times before. >> Mhm. >> To try to wake me up. And he said I didn't respond to any time. So he just went outside and looked around, went through all the rooms, the closets, and all that, and he couldn't find him anywhere. So then the next thing he thought to do was just go around a couple blocks. >> Mhm. >> See if he might be close by. >> Did he walk there or did he drive there or what did he do for that part? >> Uh he drove around. >> Okay. Um, but he came back and woke me up and he was like, "You know James is gone." I was like, "What?" And I was like, "No, I thought he was upstairs asleep." And I even woke up the brother and sister maybe thinking they might have seen him up about moving around or something and they said they didn't hear nothing. They didn't see them. So, the baby's name is James Hutchinson. >> Okay. What's his date of birth? >> 6:30 14. >> He's a baby, so I'm kind of worried about him. >> Well, sure. Yeah. I'll be more than kind of, huh? So, tell me what kind of kid he is. Um he's I mean he has ADHD. >> He struggles real bad in school. He struggles to pay attention. >> I mean he's otherwise than that like in school and stuff. He's they said he's good in school. He tries to focus. >> He's physically healthy. No health issues. Oh crap. He looks good. Good boy at home. >> Yeah. >> Pretty good boy. How do you guys discipline him when he does >> stay in the middle? >> Well, no. I mean, again, there's no I spank my kids. My kids are grown now, but I did spank my kids. There's no nothing wrong with that. Do you spank them? Do you just ground them? Do you take stuff from them? >> Well, my son with the red hair, [clears throat] he likes playing like video games and stuff like that. Mhm. >> Well, my the baby doesn't really know how to work controllers or stuff. He tried. >> Mhm. >> But um we um just make him stand in a corner just for like a little bit to make him know that, you know, you ain't supposed to do that. >> Is James in school yet? >> Yes, he's in first grade. >> He's in first grade. Where'd he go to school? >> Rosa Parks. >> Rosa Parks. Okay. Uh when's the last time he was in school? Um, well, it's every Monday, Tuesday. So, he was in school last Tuesday. >> Okay. So, he goes two days a week, Mondays and Tuesdays down at Rosa Parks. >> Yeah. >> Okay. U, but you're saying other than that, he's a pretty good kid. Dis I mean, as far as like behaviorally, I mean, he's a six-year-old, so I know six-year-olds. >> I mean, he has his little fits here and there tantrums. I just overlook it, >> right? Because I mean that's the only thing you can do cuz I mean the other ones have the same thing or they like to throw theirelves down to the floor or >> stomping or something like that but other than that he's pretty good kid. >> What's what's the address on Crawford there? >> 507 Crawford >> 507. And how long have you guys lived there? >> We just moved in there. >> You just like yesterday a week ago? >> The beginning of the month. >> The beginning of the month. Okay. So beginning of February. Yeah. >> So, about four, three or four weeks. Four weeksish. Okay. >> Um, in the room that Jane sleeps in, there's a pillow in there and there's like some scratches on the floor. You know what I'm talking? I don't know. It looked like maybe with a toy maybe or something like that. >> The kids [clears throat] play upstairs in the room. >> Have you ever noticed those scratches before? Do you know what I'm talking about when I say that? >> You do not? >> No. I You could have been there when we moved in. >> Yeah, sure. I didn't know if you paid attention to >> I didn't really look at the floors. >> Okay. Do you have mattresses for the kids or anything like that? >> We've been trying to get some. >> Okay. >> I've been calling around asking um for furniture vouchers. >> Mhm. >> And everywhere around here is not helping right now. >> Where do you work at? >> Um I don't work. I'm a stay-at-home mom. >> Okay. And where does James work at? >> Um with the landlord. So he does odd jobs like that like cleaning up stuff or >> he does electric. >> Oh, okay. Good. That's a good trade to have. >> So >> really good trade to have. You can make some money then. >> Yeah. He's trying to work on getting his um like the degree or whatever >> certificate of it. Yeah. >> And so he can actually start doing actual work work like major work and get more paid. Right. >> What time did James say that he first noticed uh James missing? with the six-year-old missile. >> Well, he I don't know what time he exactly got up, but he normally >> every day normally he gets up around 4. Anywhere from 4 to 5, maybe sometimes a little later, but other than that, cuz he's used to early morning work. >> Mhm. >> I normally sleep in until about 8, but or later. I know just like couple days I slept till 12:00. >> Right. Has James ever walked out? I mean, been missing before. >> Um, he's he was missing once before. >> How long ago was that? >> Um, I want to say it was the first of the month, but it could have been later than that, but I know it was sometime this month. >> All right. From that house. >> Yes. >> All right. So, he was missing once before from that house. And how long was he gone for? >> Um, I don't know when he was outside, but we found out Well, he found at the the you know how there's basement stairs. >> Mhm. >> Well, he found him at the bottom of the basement stairs. I don't know what he was doing, but >> Is there only one way to get into your basement? >> Yes. >> That's from the outside. >> Mhm. [clears throat] >> Okay. Um is that is it a big door that you have to pull open or what is it? >> Um well, you'd have to have a key to get in there. So, >> you start locking it after that. >> Yes. That's probably why he doesn't >> Right. >> didn't try that route. >> Right. Right. So, how long do you think he was gone then? That you just couldn't a few minutes or >> um >> an hour? >> I honestly don't have a clue. >> Okay. Um and where did you meet James at Hamilton? >> Um at his um ex-wife's house. >> How'd that turn out? >> Um well, I was with somebody else at the time and [clears throat] basically we were homeless. Mhm. >> And um I've known him for several years. >> You've known James for seven years? >> Several. >> Okay. >> And um I figured since we was homeless, call them up, see, hey, can we move in till we find something else, get situated or whatever. And he said, "Yeah, that's fine. We'll come get you guys." Mhm. >> So he came past us and we lived there for I say like 2 or 3 months or later more and then um they husband wife had a big argument and >> they had a big argument or whatever and um he found out she was cheating on him and whole bunch of crazy nonsense. I didn't want to get involved. I was like, uh, okay. So, I try to stay out of their business. >> Mhm. >> But >> I don't know if you guys been romantically involved >> for almost a year. >> For almost a year and then you just moved in together for the first time or were you living? >> Well, we was living >> Well, once they started arguing and all that, we neither one of us had a place to live. >> So, we went to the hotel in Dayton. Mhm. >> Cuz we was trying to find cheap hotels we can afford. >> Mhm. >> So that was the cheapest one we could find. So we just uh went and got a um a motel until we was able to save up enough money to get our own place and we were just now able to get our own place. >> Okay. Now, did you guys live next door there for a while? >> Uh no. Him and his ex-wife >> lived there. >> Yeah. >> Okay. All right. So, you guys were staying in hotels >> here and there and then finally got displaced last month or beginning of the February. >> I got you. >> All right. Uh, you only have the three children? >> Yes. >> Okay. Um, are you in love with with James? >> Okay. All right. Um, how does games discipline the children? >> Same thing. I do make them stay warm for a couple minutes. All right. Where do you think your child is now? Any idea? >> I have no idea. >> Okay. And he's six and his date of birth was in June. >> So he'll be seven here in June. >> Mhm. >> I got you. >> You have my the middle sons. They're both like a year Well, a month and some days and a year apart. Let me get the other two children's names. >> Um, and they have both of them have the same last name as me. >> Seven. >> Yes. >> What's his date of birth? >> 72113. and the and the girl. >> Oh, >> that's my little girl's name. And she is how old? >> She's going to be 10 in October. >> She's nine. What's her day? >> 1019 2011. And they all go to the same school. >> Rosa Parks. >> Mhm. >> They're not really liking it. COVID stuff and having to do their work on it here. They're used to their teacher trying to help them out. I try my best to help them out. But >> anytime I have a question about their work, I try to contact the teacher >> when they're when I think they're not busy cuz they keep changing the days of the well, they go by the >> the initials of your last names. So, [clears throat] um, mine's goes Monday and Tuesday and then the other kids that have [clears throat] different last names goes well, they used to go Thursday and Friday. Now they put it to Wednesday, Thursday. >> So, everybody gets three-day weekend. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> And then we have remote they Well, they normally have remote learning on Wednesday. >> Mhm. >> And [clears throat] now they just switched up to Friday. So, >> all right. So, I've been a policeman for 27 years. Um, I've been assigned to detectives about 10 years. I've interviewed a lot of people, hundreds, hundreds and hundreds of people over my career. Um, >> I was watching on the news that uh for like last month, >> they were trying to look for this little boy. >> Well, I'll find him. Okay. I'm really good at my job, so I'm going to find your boy. Okay. Um, and my partner's really good at his job. So, that's what we do. We won't leave here until we find this boy. I need you to be um, you know, if you can think of anything you need to talk to me about and I need you to make sure you tell me. Okay. Um, if you're protecting yourself because maybe something went arry and the boys hurt, then I need to know that kind of stuff. If you're protecting James, your boyfriend, from something he may have done accidentally, then I need to know that. Uh, I'm going to ask you to take a polygraph exam. Do you know what that is? It's a lie detector test. Okay. And um cuz I there's something going on here. Something's not right here. I've done this. Like I said, I've interviewed hund hundreds of people over my career. And you know, people get scared. They get themselves backed into a corner and they don't know what to do. And my job is to help them through that because sometimes it is what it is. It's an act. Something happened and you parents freak out and um you know don't know what to do. Okay. So my job is to I'm going to go talk to James here in a few minutes and I'm sure he's going to tell me a little bit different story. Okay. Because that's what I get. That's what I find when people aren't telling me the whole truth about everything. Um, you can help yourself out tremendously if you know anything about anything that happened. Because if I prove otherwise that you didn't tell me the whole truth, then that doesn't look good for you. Okay? That's not going to be good. If you're forthcoming with me now, I can deal with whatever happens. I can deal with whatever and we can go through that together. Okay? But I need you to be honest with me about everything because I'm going to find what happens. I'm good at my job and I'm going to find what happened to this little boy. Um, so is anything else before I walk out of here? This is your opportunity to be 100% straight with me. I suspect James or this is I got mad at the boy last night and he I spanked him and he took off out the door or just anything weird is fine to tell me. You're not going to tell me anything that's going to surprise me. Okay. >> No, I mean, >> did you hurt your baby? >> No. >> Now, do you know >> I love my kids. I would never hurt >> Okay. Do you know who hurt your baby? >> No. >> All right. Do you know your baby's whereabouts right now? >> Okay. Do you Do you suspect James is doing anything to your baby? >> No. >> Okay. You're 100% sure on that one. >> Yeah. He loves him like >> Okay. All right. Just hang tight. You want something to drink? >> I need to use able to use. >> You can do that. I'll let you do that. You want uh water or Coke or Mountain Dew? Anything to drink? cuz I'm thirsty. That's why I'm asking. >> I'm more worried about trying to find my babies. >> Okay. All right. Then hang tight for a few more minutes. Okay. I got a polygraph guy coming in. Okay. And he's going to ask you the same questions pretty much that I asked you if you know the whereabouts of your baby or if you know what happened to uh James. Okay. Um, you know, before you go through that process, again, I'm going to ask one more time. Is there anything you need to tell me before I walk out of this room? Cuz I feel like there is. I feel like there's something you're holding back from me. >> No, I can't remember exactly what time he woke me up. >> No, I'm not worried about that. I understand that. >> Or what time he was up or >> Well, I'm a little confused that the baby's been missing since 4:30ish, we'll say. Okay. and we don't get the call till after 10:00 a.m. That's peculiar to me. You understand why? Do you see that? >> Because it's a lot of hours. >> That's a lot of hours. You're missing a six-year-old, a first grader, >> and the police aren't called. So, obviously, that draws suspicion. >> Okay. Um, you know, >> I don't even know what time it is. So, [clears throat] >> it's probably 11ish or right now. I don't know what time exactly is either. Probably 11:30, 12:00 by now. Okay. >> Well, see last time I was behind something. >> Okay. Well, and then you know the police aren't called. The police aren't anything. Do you have a cell phone with you? >> Yeah. >> I see that. >> My sister's calling right now. So, >> it's okay. What kind of cell phone is that? >> Um, it's through Boost. It's I don't know what kind of I don't remember what kind of phone it is. >> Boost Mobile. >> Yeah. What's the um what's the passcode on? >> Um 7128. >> 7128. >> He does all that. So you may want to double check. Let's check that. >> Trying to figure out how to work it. Yeah, my partner will do better than me. He He like He does this stuff for a living. So, I'll take it. 7128. >> Yes. >> You can double check with him to make sure. I'm not sure. >> I can't stress to you enough that I'm not I'm I'm very concerned not only for your boy. Okay. And I'm very concerned that there's something you're not telling me. Again, I I I read people really well >> and I'm, you know, I'm very concerned that you're going to let me walk out of here and not tell me something you should have told me. [clears throat] Okay. >> Again, if I find out differently, you know, you're look, you could possibly be looking at criminal charges down the road if you're not telling me everything. Okay? Because this is serious. I'm missing a six-year-old boy. I hope he just ran off on his own. Okay. But something's not clicking with me. Don't worry about that. Something's not clicking with me. Okay. >> There's this family trying to see see if I'm okay and stuff like that probably. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Cuz they come in. >> So, last time you saw your baby was 9:00 last night. >> Yes. >> And the baby's been missing since 4ish, 4:30ish, whatever. And nobody's called the police since 10:00. Until 10. After 10. >> We came here at 9 something, I believe it was. I can tell you exact time. 10:16. >> I really don't pay attention to time. >> Okay. Silver get you in the bathroom here in a second. Um, you are willing to take a polygraph then? So you don't know anything about anything? >> Okay. Did you need directions? I'm sorry. Here you go. >> [clears throat] >> Is this Hutchinson? >> Yes. >> H U T C H I N S. Yes. >> Thank you. [clears throat] >> So, he does not have the same last name as you. They all have the same last name. Hutchinson. Okay. I misunderstood. So, was did a six-year-old get in trouble last night? Do you remember? >> Sorry. I'm trying to remember. Yeah, he got in trouble for something. I remember what it was. >> You don't remember what it was? What was the punishment last night? >> Corner. >> Corner. Um, >> I don't really like putting my hands on my kids. >> That's okay. That's fine. Some people don't. I didn't have a problem with it. So, and I didn't, you know, spank on my butt is what I'm talking about, of course. But uh [clears throat] the kids said something about uh you guys. What did you have for dinner last night? >> They had pizza rolls and kids. >> The kids did. Okay. They're they're telling me that James had gotten in trouble for something and that he wasn't given pizza roll, but he he was given bread instead because that was his punishment. >> You remember that? >> No, we gave him like lunch meat sandwiches at um lunchtime >> and then all three of them you're saying got pizza rolls last night? Why would the kids tell me that? It's my it's my experience that the most truths you're going to get out of anybody is from a child and both the you know I got a six and a or a seven and eight nineyear-old or 8-year-old almost or nine-year-old almost that is telling me that he got in trouble so he wasn't get he wasn't allowed to have he had to miss dinner and give him bread and something to drink instead. Why would they tell me that? >> I don't know. They had bread. They had they had bread for lunch. >> Okay. >> I don't know if they kind of got lunch and dinner. Confused. >> Okay. Was Was he punished by not giving any type of food at some point yesterday? Maybe not dinner, but maybe lunch. Maybe that's what they're getting confused. But they had lunch meat sandwiches. You're saying it means that lunch. >> Yeah. >> I would never make them go without any mail. I rather Oh, I know that. >> I'd rather go without before they >> I understand what you're saying. I'm just trying to figure out what they're talking about. What the kids are talking about. >> I have no idea. >> Okay. Is is James your boyfriend? That's what I'm talking about now. Has he ever hit you? >> No. >> Put hands on you? >> No. >> Have you ever seen him put hands on the kids? >> What was the needle that we found down at the there was a needle found at the side door where supposedly was unlocked or locked or something like that? But you know anything about that? So, do you use needles for any of your medication? >> No, there's uh the people next doors. >> Okay. So, maybe it was from one of them. Is that what you're saying? >> Yeah. We all We always see a whole bunch of people just walking in through the >> Oh, yeah. >> Cutting it. Cutting through basically. >> But have you ever seen James? You had any needles. >> Okay. Kids are here. Oh, >> that's what you're hearing. >> They're probably worried about Where's my mom? Where's my mom? >> Yeah, actually your neighbor come over. >> Rick. >> Rick. Nice guy. Super. I think he's a nice guy. I don't know him like you do, but >> Well, I don't really know him either. He's known longer than me. I just met him when we moved in there. So, you said something about James does work like doing electrical work for houses. >> Yes. >> Like rentals, I would assume. >> Yes. >> All right. >> Like he gets them ready. >> Who does he work for? >> Taylor. That's the only thing I know. His name is Taylor. >> And was Taylor just gave him the keys of these are they all vacant? I would assume. >> Um I'm not sure. >> They go clean them out. What do they do? Um, I know when like when they put people out and they get evicted and they sit people's stuff out, put it I don't know if they sit it out, put it in the dumpster. I don't I don't know what they do. >> Um, I've never been with him on a job or any of that. So, >> okay. >> I really don't know much. >> Does he have like keys to the house, James? Does he have keys to the houses and stuff? I guess that he works for >> Did he ever come in with a bunch? I mean, you would know. I mean, did he come up with a bunch of keys or >> He's always had the same key that he's had, >> but nothing like extra keys that he could. >> Basically, I'm waiting for my guy to come here. He's going to do the polygraph for me, and we'll just kind of go from there. I got guys out camping the neighborhood. Um, so we're actively looking for James. Little James is what I call him now because I got I think James in there. >> It's confusing. I understand. >> So, we're looking for James now. Don't think we're just sitting here talking to you. I got bunch of people out doing that. >> I was hearing say, is anybody even out there looking for him? >> Yes. 100%. >> Cuz I'm sure brother and sister worry about little brother. >> Right. Right. Your daughter also said sometimes big James doesn't get along with little James. What What would she mean by that? I have no idea. >> Does little James get any more or less trouble than the other two? >> They all get >> right >> about the same. >> They're all close to the same age. They all Yes. Okay. So now >> I mean my daughter for instance once she went to school threat to stab somebody, >> right? >> I had a when she came home that day, they cuz the teacher pulled me to the side dismissal and was like, "Have you ever heard of your daughter threatening anybody at any time in your her life, any school, anything?" thing. I was like, "No." >> Okay. >> Cuz I I don't know where she would have got that from, >> right? >> They said that she could have heard it from her little friends talking about knives or something. >> Okay. >> I know James does like being mean to them. So, >> like [clears throat] >> hitting them, taking their toy away. >> Oh, little James. >> Yes. Not that. >> I got you. How about I just say my son? >> Yeah, that'll work. All right. All right. So, just done talking to James and he's telling us he's coming around. So, this is the deal. Are you reading right? Can you read? I can read some words out or some words I could like first I can't understand. >> Okay, I'm going to read this to you but you don't understand I'll explain it to you. Does that sound good? Says warning I am a police officer warning you to have the right to remain silent. They say can or will be used against you in a court of law. You have the right to consult with a lawyer before before and during any question and have lawyer present while being questioned. is that if you cannot afford a lawyer, won't be appointed to you free performing questioning and you can stop talking to me or any other police officer at any time during questioning. Do you understand that? Meaning that I'm not forcing you to talk to me. I'm trying to figure out what's going on with your baby. Okay, flip that card over. Do you understand that? >> Okay. >> Sorry, I just never been through. >> I need you to print your name right here saying you understand that. And then we'll date and time. You said front. >> Yeah. >> Are the kids okay? >> Yeah. >> We're out there eating food. Junk food. Sorry. That's all we got here. >> Hey, it's something, huh? >> Yep. Today is February 28th. >> Start right February just 2:28. It's fine. Of 21. And the time is 111. PM. >> Yes. Thank you. All right. So, James is telling a little different story. All right. So, this is what I need to know. in the middle of the night last night. Okay. You went upstairs and you got you picked James up out of his room and you went downstairs where your boyfriend was at. Tell me I and I'm not going to go into everything James has told me. Okay. Cuz I'm still looking for you to be honest with me. Okay. Tell me about that. Tell me what happened after you picked him up out of the room and went downstairs. >> I say I don't remember picking him up, taking him downstairs. >> You don't remember anything about picking him up, taking downstairs night? James is pushing this off on you. Okay, I'm going to be real upfront with you about this at this point. Okay, so you need to be very smart and honesty goes a long long way with me and if there's any criminal charges in the future, honesty goes a long way. Okay, I'm getting a story that is totally different than what you have told me. And I don't know why James is telling me that, but that's what he's telling me. Okay, that's part of what he's telling me. Okay, he's going into more detail than that. Okay. But I'm not going to share that with you. I need to know what happened last night with your your boy, your six-year-old or this morning, early this morning in the middle of the night, whatever. >> I don't know if you said that he had a nightmare. >> The tissue. Yeah, but he didn't I didn't carry him downstairs or anything. >> Okay. Who carried him down the steps? >> He walked down the steps. >> He walked down the steps in the middle of the night. About what time was that? >> I don't I couldn't tell you. I didn't pay attention to time. >> Yeah. I was more worried about what was wrong with him. What does that mean? >> Like what? >> Why he was downstairs? >> Why was he uh downstairs? Why was he awake? Uh what was bothering him? Did he feel sick or he's had to use the bathroom? >> Okay, so he's downstairs and what does he say to you? >> Me had a nightmare. >> Okay, in those words. Okay. So, me had a nightmare. What did you do? What did you What was the next thing you did? >> Just try to sit there and >> Did he Where did he come to the living room? >> No, he went in there, woke me up. >> In bed? >> Yeah. >> And was James in bed with you at the time? >> Yeah. >> And then what happened? >> He come in there and said, "Mommy, I don't know how many times he probably >> said my name. I'm a deep sleeper." >> Okay. Uh, but I was rolling over and I heard mommy, mommy. At first I thought I was just hearing things and something told me like maybe I'm not hearing things. >> Mhm. >> So I opened my eyes and he said, "Mommy, we had a nightmare." Or, "Mommy, we see a shadow." I was like, "What shadow?" >> Mhm. >> He said, "I don't know. They're white. I was like, he's like, "Do you know what it is?" I said, "I don't know." And he said he couldn't really sleep. Couldn't tell me what he was dreaming about or his nightmare was just he was scared. >> And then what did he do? What did you do then? >> I just kind of comfort him. >> Console him? >> Mhm. >> Okay. How did you do that? just hold him and tell him it's okay. >> Okay. And then what did he do after you were done doing that? >> Um I believe we were just I was just kept asking him if he was okay. >> Did he sleep with you the rest of the night or what? >> I told him if he wanted to go back up to his room he could. >> Mhm. >> Or if he wanted to sleep downstairs. Well, since we moved into this new house, it's kind of new surrounding to them all. >> So, every once in a while, they'll sleep upstairs, but then they like to sleep downstairs, I'm guessing, cuz it's more comfortable with mom downstairs, >> right? >> They normally sleep in the living room. >> Well, not normally, but >> Right. I got you. when they have a bad night or >> right >> whatever in case maybe they sleep downstairs, I allow it cuz I mean I would want them be let them feel like comfort that I'm closer to them instead of all the way upstairs. So, um, I told him, "Wait, if you don't want to go upstairs to your room to sleep, let me go upstairs to get your the bedding cuz we don't have >> mattresses and stuff, so he can lay down." >> Mhm. >> Um, so I went upstairs and grabbed his bedding cuz he said he was still kind of scared to >> even go upstairs, which I couldn't understand if you're having nightmares. Thought you seen something. >> Mhm. >> So, I went upstairs. I told him, "Look, I'll be right back. Nothing's going to happen to me. I'll be right back. I'm going to go. >> So, you're downstairs in your room at this point? >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, you go upstairs. >> So, I went upstairs to grab his bed. >> Mhm. >> And I told them I laid it out next to the other two cuz they for some reason they wanted to sleep downstairs. >> Mhm. >> Um but they get up early in the morning to go upstairs, play, stuff normal kids would do. >> Mhm. That way they're not they try to let me have some sleep. >> Yeah. >> Plus they're used to getting up going to school and stuff like that. >> Mhm. >> Um but I went upstairs, grabbed his bedding, brought it back downstairs, and laid it with the other two so he felt that I'm in the next room >> with the other two. the the kids >> the two kids were already downstairs. >> No, they were upstairs. >> Okay. >> And somehow I don't know how they got downstairs, but I woke up when I seen James kept yelling, "Mom, mom, mom." And it looked like he was scared to even use the bathroom. >> Mhm. >> Cuz he was, you know, how bully >> he was holding himself. And um he said, "Mom, can you please take me to the bathroom?" I was like, "Yeah, I'll go with you to the bathroom. I'm not going in the bathroom, but I'll stand by the bathroom door >> cuz I don't want him to feel like I'm messing with them or any of that." >> Um, well, he he used to joke around with me all the time. The the kids >> used to joke around all the all the time with me and say, "Mom, you're looking at my pea bird." I'm like, "Dude, I'm all I'm doing is washing it." Right? >> [clears throat] >> So I told him to be fil cuz normally he can't really pee in front of me. I'm guessing because he thinks I'm standing there watching him, >> right? >> So I'm like, "Do you want me to stand in here with you or stand outside the door?" He said, "Just stand outside the door, mom." So I just stood outside. Well, I don't know. I don't know if you've been in our house yet. >> Um the little room that's supposed to be a laundry room. We just got the washer and dryer in there. Mhm. >> Um I stood right there. The door was wide open. Uh we got that little nightlight that's in the bathroom. >> Okay. >> Um that way they don't try to help them not be scared to go use the bathroom. >> Mhm. >> Um but I told them I'm staying right here at the door and I told him the nightlight's on that way we don't wake nobody else up. And >> so you're saying and what's your other boys name were already downstairs? Yes. >> Were they on the couch or are they on the floor? >> They were on the floor. >> Okay. So they were already downstairs. >> I don't know if they had the same issue. I don't >> I don't know. They were already downstairs. >> Okay. Um but um [clears throat] he was they were all upstairs sleeping in their individual rooms. >> Mhm. >> But sometimes the boys kind of like sleep together. I don't know cuz I guess they felt more safe cuz I mean we've been in hotel rooms living with other people and they're not used to each >> right. >> Well, the little girl's used to having her room. She's a little girl, but the boys ain't used to >> right >> being apart. They're used to sharing a room. >> So when you put them to bed last night, they were all upstairs. >> Yes. >> And >> I even went up there. >> Do the two boys have different rooms? >> Um >> they share a room. >> Well, I leave their bags of clothes in the one room cuz >> Right. >> They I tell them if they want their own room cuz there's three bedrooms upstairs. >> I told them if they want their own room, then that's fine. But if you don't feel safe, >> right, >> or comfortable, you can sleep in your brother room, but you cannot sleep in your sister's room. >> So, he gets done going pee and then what? >> Um, we went in there. I turned cart tins on. >> And you've already been upstairs by now and got his bedding. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> What is his bedding? >> Um, a blanket that lays on the floor. >> Another blanket to cover up with, and a pillow. >> Okay. Um, so I went upstairs, came back down, I turned cuz he was like, "Mom, can you turn something on so we can see?" And I turned the TV on that way waking everybody up in the house. >> So I turned the TV on. He asked, "Mom, can you put cartoons on?" I put cartoons on for him cuz they like when they're doing their schoolwork at school, they do their work. I don't know if your kids get on YouTube and watch all these Spongebob and all that. They get on YouTube and watch Spongebob, but he wanted to We don't have cable cable. So, >> um he asked to watch cartoons. I was like, I'll find something and there might be something on it this time. >> Mhm. >> But I was going through the channels, found the channel. He said, "That's fine, Mom." So, I slept there on the couch. He was sitting on the floor on his bedding next to brother and sister on the floor and uh he was just sitting there. I asked him a couple times here and there, "Are you okay? Is something still bothering you? >> Are you still scared? Do you feel a lot better?" [clears throat] >> So, how long have you been asleep before you think he woke you up? If you could guess, if you could guess, >> I don't know, maybe like 3 or 4 hours. >> Okay. So, if you go to bed, >> I go to bed at 10. Once I go to bed, I'm I'm out. >> Right. So, why didn't you tell me all this prior to before when we were talking? Why didn't you tell me all this story before? Cuz I just asked you if you remember going upstairs originally when I came in because that's what I'm being told. And you didn't remember any of that. Now all of a sudden you're remembering detail about him. >> I have a bad problem with memory issues. Um, I can't I couldn't tell you about I can't remember day to day. >> Okay. You're still not you're lying to me about some stuff. So, are you Did you grow up in church or anything in the faith? >> Um, >> I remember when I was a little kid that my grandma used to take me to church all the time. Well, I suspect something accidentally happened, okay? Because you you are all over the place with your stories, okay? For whatever reason, you're scared and you're not telling me the whole truth, okay? And I understand you being scared. I know you don't know me, okay? But I'm the most honest policeman person that you're ever going to talk to, okay? I'm telling you, it's in your best interest to tell me the entire truth. Okay? Or you're going to be in a roll of hurt. I'm telling you, no matter what happened, if it was no matter what happened, if by telling me the truth goes a long way. It's going to go a long long way in this process. Okay? I know that something h that something either accidental or something happened to James or you wouldn't be all over the place like this. I've done this a long time. Okay? This is all I've done for 27 years, okay? Is talk to people. You have to tell me what's going on and what happened. Okay, at this point because James, your boyfriend, is telling a different story than what you're telling. Okay, you're deflecting. You are minimizing stuff. Meaning that you know you're not telling me the whole truth. Well, he's breaking down. Okay, he's telling me the whole truth. Okay, so you can sit here and keep lying to me. I can't make you tell me the truth. You know that. You're going to have to take a deep breath and tell me what happened and what's going on here because something happened. Okay? There's nothing you're going to tell me that I've not heard a million times over my career. Okay? But I need to know the truth because believe it or not, I know it's an old cliche, the truth is what helps people. The truth is what sets people free. Okay? You don't want to live with what's going on here. Okay? You want to tell me the truth. Most people finally tell me, "Okay, this is what's going on." Okay, that's your choice, huh? Okay, but you know what happened. You know what happened. Only you know, and James knows, but only you're going to be able to get out in front of this the best you can. Okay, I have to see some remorse. Okay, I >> remorse. >> Well, I have to see that. Okay, I I've not been telling you the whole truth. I'm sorry. Remorse means I'm sorry. Okay. Half. So, you understand what I'm saying? This is what this is what happened and this is the truth. Okay. A six-year-old just doesn't get up and walk out the door. Okay. There's more to the story than what you're telling me. Okay. I've talked to James. My partner's talked to James extensively and James is coming off of this slowly. I would suggest for you just tell me the truth now. He might have told me more now. I don't know. I've not I've been in here with you. Okay. But James is he took a deep breath and I suggest that to you. Take a drink of your pop. Take a deep breath and just tell me what's going on here. Okay. Stuff happens in life. There's no perfect parent. There's no perfect person. I got very pissed off at my kids many, many times over my lifetime and been aggravated with them to the point where Yeah, I could literally choke them out. I get aggravated with him a lot, but I wouldn't. >> Okay, tell me what's going on with the with the baby. Take tell me the truth this time. The entire truth. >> Sorry, my anxieties. >> I understand that. >> Off the chart. >> I understand that. Okay. And maybe something did happen that you didn't mean for it to happen, but I need to know that. Okay. That's what I'm trying to get out of you. Okay. I talk to parents every day. They do stuff that they I I don't I understand. Okay. You had a moment of fury. I've been furious with my children before. >> How many kids do you have? >> I have three. >> Same as me. >> Okay. And now mine are adults, two married, one engaged, but they're adults now. But there was many times that I lost my temper with them severely. Okay? And stuff that I regret doing. Okay? We all have regrets. There ain't nobody in this building that's going to have regrets and stuff that they made mistakes. There's nobody perfect here. But I [clears throat] need you to be tell me what's going on with your boy and tell me what happened truthfully. Okay. So, you just took a drink of your pop. Tell me what's going on. >> Sorry. I'm trying not to get anxiety to just take a deep breath and just tell me what happened. >> Okay. Okay. The kids wasn't listening. Well, you know, kids don't listen. You probably been there a lot. >> Well, kids wasn't listening. I try my best. I don't like yelling and screaming at my kids >> cuz I feel like if you're yelling and screaming at them, they don't want to listen. >> Okay. They're more scared of you yelling screaming mad than wanting to >> listen to what you're trying to tell them, >> right? >> Um, but anyways, we took the I'm sure you did too, but we took the we take kids as like the toys, take them away, put them up. >> Mhm. >> Until they start >> right >> coming back as being behaved. Mhm. >> Um they also have a lot of times lying about I didn't pee myself and >> stuff like that. I the one that's heard of the voice, >> the son, he likes peeing on himself and kind of I'm sorry, mom, but yes, I did like 20 minutes later like >> why wasn't you telling me then? >> Mhm. But anyways, um they were they wasn't listening. >> Mhm. >> And he thought that James thought I wasn't making them listen, >> right? >> Um cuz he's normally at work nonstop. But um you know he thinks they're they hate him because they don't really listen to him. >> Well, sometimes they don't even listen to me, but they're kids. >> Sure. >> Um but we can get into all this blood. Okay. Tell me what happened. >> He told James told me to get rid of the kids. Okay. >> And so, um, I took him for a drive to make them think I >> want to get rid of them, but I'm not going to get rid of my kids for anybody else on the planet. >> And he told me to get rid of them because they were not listening. He was tired of putting up with it. And I kept telling him like, I'm not going to get rid of me after kids. Like I can take them give you a break. >> Mhm. >> And from me and him for a little while, take them for a drive, whatever. >> But I'm not getting rid of them. They're my kids. I will not do that. >> Okay. >> And I said, if I wanted to do that, I would have gave them up a long time ago. >> Mhm. >> But he kept telling me, either get these kids under control or um get rid of them or do something with them. So I tried asking family members to >> So what happened last night? Let's fast forward to that. >> We went for a drive. >> Mhm. >> Um I don't know what road it was. >> Okay. >> It was just we were just driving around. Um, well, the kids were going to the bathroom. I had pulled over to this um, a little booth >> in Middletown. >> Yeah. Okay. >> It's a little stall or something. >> Mhm. >> A bathroom. I pulled over to the bathroom and let them all use the bathroom. Well, it was raining and stuff. I left the left the door unlocked in the van. >> Mhm. and told him, "We'll all go in here. Not all of us at once, but each one of us go in here one at a time, use the bathroom." So, we went in the bathroom. Well, I couldn't go in there, but when I went to go in the bathroom, I told him, "Go ahead and just get in the van." >> Mhm. >> Well, James had slipped and fell cuz his shoes were sweat, slippery, and he had hit his head. >> Mhm. And >> did it kill him? Did >> you tell him? Did it Did the fall hurt him? >> Well, he was I asked him if he was okay. He wouldn't answer me. So, I noticed he was breathing kind of heavy. >> Mhm. >> And I thought maybe that's not normal. I've never seen him blurry before. Well, he was breathing. I don't know how long he was breathing for, but he had fell and busted his head on the side of the van >> and trying to get in there. And he was breathing heavy for a couple minutes and then he I couldn't I tried to do CPR. I couldn't get him. >> So, he stopped breathing. And where's his body at? >> He's doing good. Okay, just tell me where his body's at cuz I got to go find him. >> For you. Okay. This is called Cloer now. Okay. Where's Where's his body at? Where did you take it back home with you? >> No, I left it. >> You left it? So, who's all in the car with you? >> All of us. >> James, you? >> Yes. We always >> the three children as a family. >> So, all five of you? >> Yes. >> All right. And where what park was this? Or where was this at in Middletown? >> Because it would make sense to put to me. >> Did you put him in a dumpster? Did you put him Did you just let him lay right there? Was he buried? I mean, that's what I need to know. >> I didn't do nothing with him. I just let him lay in the parking lot cuz it was a plain parking lot. There was, I believe, like water over here or something. >> Mhm. And there was a one little stall and I left him just lay on the ground. >> Okay. Did James did James do anything with him? >> Your uh boyfriend? >> I mean, it doesn't make sense just lay him right there on the ground. So, >> well, I left him laying in there on the ground cuz I was going to call the ambulance, but I was >> right. >> I was scared, shook up, didn't know what to do. >> Okay. So, >> so now we need to figure out where this is at. >> Well, he the b the little boy was laying on the ground. I went to the bathroom, told him try you try real quick cuz I I couldn't hold myself. I told him, "You try real quick to give him CPR." >> Mhm. >> And so I went to the bathroom. I came out. He was gone. >> Okay. Where did the other two children say about all this? >> Um, well, they were in the back seat. So, they couldn't. >> Okay, I'm going to give you a break here for a second. Okay, take relax. Okay, I'm going to go out and talk to James real quick and see if we can't figure out where this is at. Okay. All right. So, James just told me that Bonnie was going to talk to the river. Okay. That you guys went together to do that this morning. Um, is this is it the Ohio River? Is that where we're talking about or where? >> It's between Indiana and Kentucky. >> Between Indiana? >> I don't really know if I out. >> Okay. Was the body wrapped in anything or did you just have clothes on him or what? >> He had clothes on. >> Okay. >> Do you know what he was wearing? >> Um his red jack. It's like a camo red jacket. >> Mhm. [clears throat] >> Um black and white shoes. >> Red. >> No, it's just like a plain camo red jacket. Okay. >> Um you know the brown school pants. >> Yes. A pair of those. And um it was a black and white shirt. I don't remember what was >> it was a long sleeve. I don't remember. >> Um I can't remember exactly what was on the shirt. [clears throat] >> I just know that's what he had on. >> Sure. He had his glasses on. Did you have his glasses? >> Where are those? No, that he has his glasses. >> So whenever he went in the water, he had his glasses. >> He wears them every day. >> Okay. >> He's gone. >> And you made sure he had them on whenever he >> Mhm. >> Right. Now he Now James tells us a little bit more detail. Okay. So I'm going to get into some of that with you now. Okay. And you've been you're you're starting to come around with honesty and I need that. That's what going to help you. Okay. and help us find him. Um, so the only one of the differences is James says that he wasn't with you up at the park when all this happened. Is that true or not? >> I don't know if it was a park. It was an empty parking lot. It >> was an empty parking lot. >> Was it near near any water near a lake? >> There was um water here. I don't know what it was. >> See any boat docks? Any boats in the water? >> Um, not that I recall. >> Okay. And then there's like was off to >> if I pulled it up on a map, would you be able or not? Was there a >> It was I'm trying to remember the park something [clears throat] run. >> Rush run. >> Yeah. >> Was it Rush Run? >> Yeah. >> And you were near the water? >> Yeah, it was. It said it was brush run park, but I seen water, so it had been a lake or I don't know >> what it was. Now, James goes into a little bit more detail. What happened to him? What happened to your son? Okay. First off, was James with you when all this happened? >> Your boyfriend. He was not. >> The three kids. >> The three kids and you? >> Yeah. Well, he told me to >> go somewhere. To >> to do what? >> To get rid of kids. >> To get rid of the kids. Okay. So the truth now is he didn't just slip and bang his head. Okay? Because you've done really good up till now. I need to know ex precisely how he died, how he passed away. So I know this is this is a hard part for you. Okay? And I know that you're a mom and you know I know you have feelings for James, but you also you're a mom and you love your children. Okay? Okay. And I'm sure it was one of the hardest things you I know it was the hardest thing you've ever you've done to one of your children. >> I've never got afraid of my kids ever. >> I know. And you went down a wrong path here. And you know that now. Okay. Specifically though. >> He was not with me. >> Okay. >> It was just me and the three kids cuz he said he needed a break or I need to do something with the kids. >> Okay. You were tired of hearing him or what? >> I I was tired listening to >> Okay. So, I just got grab my kids cuz that's what I think of first is to grab my kids and go. >> Mhm. >> And he told me I can drive the van. Okay. >> Or whatever. >> So, he told you to take the van. >> Yeah. He told me whatever I wanted I wanted to drive, I can take it, >> right? >> Cuz I have my license. So, I took the van and it was going to the lake park, whatever it Have you ever been here before >> or you just >> What made you go there? >> Cuz it's kind of out of >> He has a friend Well, he used to. He no longer goes in his life and whatever. Got an argument. Um he has a friend named Dean and Ashley that lives somewhere out there. >> I don't know exactly where. >> Uh cuz every time we went down there, that's where he he drove. I don't I don't know. Nothing. I'm a new driver. >> So, you were kind of familiar with that area from being up at their house. >> Yes. Kind of. Kind [clears throat] of. Not. I remember him stopping once to let one of the kids use the bathroom and his pory potty thing. >> Yes. >> And so that's why I stopped cuz they was like, I got to pee. I got to eat. And that's the only place I knew around there that had I knew for a fact had a little port >> cuz there was no gas. I couldn't remember no gas stations by nearby and I didn't want them to pee all over. >> Sure. >> So I stopped at the portter, let them each kid use the bathroom. So James went to go get in the van. Um well, James didn't want to get out of the van, >> right? >> I'm talk about the kid. >> Yeah. >> He didn't want to get out of the van and he was forcing me like, "You got to get rid of this [ __ ] kid. I don't know how. And I was like, "Dude, why should I have to get around my kids? Why can't you just go?" >> Sure. So, he wouldn't get out of the van. And what happened? >> And I told him cuz he [clears throat] was had to use the bathroom, too. Told him I wasn't going to leave him. >> Mhm. >> Well, I was thinking about leaving him. So I kind of like pulled off a little bit and James fell kind of down on his knees, got back, went to go get back up and then just dropped. >> Did you hit him with the van then? >> No, I didn't hit him with no van. >> Okay. >> I didn't run him over. I didn't do none of that. >> Okay. Um, so he hits the van. >> He had the the van's door slides open. Mhm. >> So he had a handle of the van. >> So the doors open. >> No, they slide back. >> It's a minivan. They fly back. He had the handle >> of the van, the back door van >> on the driver's side. >> And when I went to go kind of pull off, he didn't have the handle in his hand. >> It was kind [clears throat] of just like standing there. Not close close to the van, but just kind of standing there holding the van's door trying to get back in. >> Well, that door out of that door is messed up, >> right? >> And it it don't want to unlock. It don't want to lock. So, um I went to go pull off and James, as I was saying, he was I walked he fell, tried to get back up and he fell and hit his head on the ground. And you were in the parking lot there. >> Yes. >> If you I'm explain it more. If you go in the driveway. I don't remember how to get there. >> If we took you up that way, could you show us where >> where he was at? >> Yeah. >> Um Yeah. There's actually a little not a big big glob of blood, but there's like a this much blood. >> Mhm. >> Or maybe even more where his head had hit the concrete. >> Mhm. >> And um [clears throat] I rolled him over. >> Mhm. >> Kind of try to help him back. >> Mhm. >> See if I can get him to come back. >> Mhm. >> Well, >> did you know he was dead pretty soon though? At first, he was still breathing. Like I said, he took a couple like >> Where was he bleeding from? >> Right here on the right. Like he want to fall down. >> Is he breathing out of his ears or his mouth? >> Um, >> and if you don't remember, >> I don't He did have his mouth open. >> Okay. >> I know he had his eyes kind of like, you know how you kind of like sleep with your eyes open like a tiny bit, [clears throat] right? >> That's how he had his eyes. >> Okay. Um, so he was like responding but I guess couldn't talk. >> Sure. >> Um, but he was breathing heavy. I don't know how many I couldn't tell you how many breathing fast he was. But when I got when I was with him, he was breathing still. And I was doing my CPR that I learned >> how to do and try to bring him back and I I just I couldn't. So, >> so after so I did it for like five minutes and I knew after five minutes there was no getting him back. >> So what did you do then? >> Um I drove home. >> You picked him up, put him in the van. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> I just Well, I thought I just threw >> I can't do that to my >> I don't want to just throw it in there. >> Right. Right. >> Well, the other >> I've never seen a dead body before or know how it looks. It was nothing. So I just kind of like like a baby pick him up his head and his legs and sit him in the the like the >> Have you been in the van yet? >> Mhm. I mean I've seen him. >> Okay. Well, it has [clears throat] the back seat, >> right? >> And you got that empty spot right here and then the two front seats. Well, I had laid him nicely softly. I didn't just throw them in there because that's just disrespectful >> and that's my blood child, >> right? >> Um, he told also he told me not to tell you guys this, but James's real dad's name is Louis Edward Hutcherson. >> Mhm. >> And I can give you his date of birth. You can even call him. >> Okay. >> I don't Well, I don't have a phone number for him, but you can talk to his ex-wife. Uh, I used to date Louis Edison. That is to James's biological father. And he told me not to tell me all that. >> I don't know why, but that's what he told me to tell him. But I was going to tell you about it anyway because you guys have the right to know he has a dad with the same exact last name as you just heard me say, Louisis Edward Hutcherson. The same spelling. L E W I S. Mhm. >> Not the U in it. Um, his date of birth is um >> James. >> My son James. >> Oh, yeah. >> Uh, you want to write his name down? His dad's biological dad's name. >> You're talking about your >> My son James. His biological father's name is Lewis. L E W I S Edward Hutcherson same as changes and his birthday is 1012 1989 and the reason why I had left his dad is cuz he threatened to kill me in my sleep >> and I And I couldn't just stick around to find out if that's >> really what he was going to do cuz he kept saying over. I'mma kill you in your sleep until you're asleep. >> So I just >> How long ago did you leave little James's dad? >> Two months ago. >> How long have you and James been together? This James >> almost a year. So we've been on together almost a year. So therefore, if we I can't reme figure how the it's been a we was me and James's real father. We've been together off and on for several years. Like we were in school, >> right? >> And I've known him all my life. >> Right. >> Well, he came down with this rarity um seizures just came out of nowhere. Well, he kept having seizures like if uh the kids were yelling too loud or something like that, he kept having seizures just randomly. >> Well, I told him he needed to go to an emergency room to get checked out cuz you don't just have seizures here and there, here or there for no reason, >> right? >> So, he went to got it checked out and he said it was due to stress and a whole bunch of other stuff that he was he is known for seizures and he was taking medication. >> Sure. Well, there's for a while he wanted to refuse to take his medication. And I told him, well, that's why you have the medication, so you don't keep having the seizures. I said, don't you want your son to know who his dad is? >> Right. >> And he was like, yeah. So, I got him finally to start taking his meds back. And um so therefore his ex-wife's name's Priscilla Hamilton. She goes by still. She lives at 1229 Woodside Boulevard. And this is where we all used to stay at. >> And I don't know where James's biological father lives. Only thing I know is Pao. I don't know his address, phone number, nothing. The last moment I ever had, he came. >> Why didn't he want us to know about James's real dad? >> He told me to tell you that. >> I'm still confused. >> Yeah, a little bit. >> Okay. [clears throat] So, let me back up a little bit. So, you put your son back in the van. You drove where? >> Um, back home. >> Back home. >> What did the other two children, what were they saying or thinking? Did they >> They were just kind of like shook up. said it. >> Okay. >> Where were they at whenever James, little James fell? >> Um, one was coming out the bathroom and one was just standing there. My daughter was the one just standing there and she said, "Mommy, you didn't run him over." Cuz I was scared of like, "Please don't tell me I ran him over cuz I would have really, really, really, really felt bad." >> But at that point, whatever you got standing out there is coming out of the mad room. No. Was standing out there. Was coming out the bathroom. >> Was coming out of the bathroom. And then you've got little James over. >> Yeah. And the door was open. >> But you drove away. >> No, we were I was uh sitting at the pory potter. >> Mhm. >> Well, I went to go drive off. >> So you >> cuz you told me to make them seem like you're leaving them. >> Mhm. >> Right. >> So your vehicle was in motion. Well, it was in park and then I put I noticed his hand wasn't on the handle because I looked out the mirror. His hand wasn't on the mirror on the on the handle. And so then I went to kind of like just pull off a little bit >> just to scare him. >> Yeah. >> So but that So you're saying that you were there basically to leave them? >> Yeah, cuz he told me to leave >> and and and that's fine. I get that. You're trying to keep Big James happy by getting rid of your kids. >> Well, I was trying to tell him he needed to leave, but right here, let's stay right here. Just what we're talking about is you're you go there to drop the kids off >> and you're going to leave and leave them there. >> So, I don't leave a leave like I don't leave the the >> the park >> park. Mhm. >> Um, >> but that's but >> I got to the end of the the entrance. >> Okay. >> And then turned back around and went back in there and got him. >> Okay. But little James was on the ground when you got back. >> Yes. >> But whenever you left, >> your initial intentions were to leave them. That's why you went there to begin with >> and you were going to leave them and come back to Middle Town. Is that what? >> No, I was going to leave them and act like I was going to leave them, but I was going to tell him that I left them and in reality I didn't. >> Uh-huh. What were you going to do with them? >> I wasn't going to do anything with them to be honest. >> Well, if you took >> I took him to there cuz he told me to take him somewhere and drop them off >> to get rid of them. >> Yeah. Forever. >> So, I talked I couldn't get rid of my kids. >> And And I don't doubt that event. I don't doubt that a bit, but that's where you know and and honey, you're you've been through a lot and >> I was raised when I was a kid and all this stuff, >> right? Well, we're just just focus on whatever we're really discussing now. Okay, you're kind of getting off all over the place here. We're just trying to figure out just hold on exactly what you were thinking. Why? Cuz from what you've said, and please correct me if I'm wrong. >> Okay. >> James told you, "I want the kids gone. I don't want to see them no more." >> Yes. >> So that So >> he even told me cuz I want I told him just go upstairs. >> Okay. Okay. Listen. So, but when he when you loaded up in the car with the kids, >> you left Crawford Street with all three kids. >> Yes. >> James was in the house. >> Yes. >> He wanted you to take them somewhere and never bring them back. >> Yes. >> Okay. So, you're confused. You're You care about James >> and I >> just You care about James, right? >> Yeah. >> So, you take off driving. Mhm. >> Did you go kind of straight to Rush Roman? >> Well, he told me where to go to. >> Okay. So, he told you to take them to Rush. >> I didn't know what the name of >> Sure. Sure. But but you knew what he was talking about. So, you get to rush Run >> and did you tell them, "Hey, hop out and pee." Or did they? >> Well, they said at first they said, "I have to pee." I said, "Okay, well, go ahead and go to the bathroom." >> And I figured that was the best time. get out of the car or did you stay in the car? >> I got out. Oh, no. I was in the car and I didn't get out till I went back to get >> Yeah, that's what I mean. So, you're in the car? >> Yes. Wait. >> And did you have your seat belt on? >> Yes. >> Did you ever take it off >> at that point? >> No, I don't believe so. >> Okay. So, all the kids get out of the van. Yes. >> Are both doors open? >> Just the driver back door. The driver's side sliding door is open. >> So, that one opens up. >> The two got the two kids got out. The the one's out here. >> They got out. >> Yes. James was in the back seat >> and he didn't want to get out. >> He act like he was asleep. >> Mhm. >> So, I just nicely picked him up, set him outside on the ground. >> So, you did get out of your van or did you stay in the van? >> Well, at first I stayed in the van and then I noticed James didn't want to get out. didn't want to get out. >> So, I picked him, got out the van, unbuckled. >> Mhm. >> Well, I unbuckled and got out of the van, then got back there and grabbed James. >> Did you go in through the door? >> Yeah. You got out and you went in through the side door, >> the side back door. Yes. >> Right. And you lifted him out. Yes. [clears throat] Set him on the ground. >> Yes. I didn't throw him or anything. >> Okay. Sure. Sure. Nobody's saying you did. So, once he's on the ground, what happens then? >> Um, I went to go pull off. So did >> he had already used the bathroom, came back out. >> So he you put him on the ground, he get back in the car. >> Mhm. >> And then he walks around the front of your car or the back of your car. >> My car was like this and the bathroom's literally right here. >> Sure. Okay. >> So he just like walks to the door. >> So you pull in and your face is in the woods. >> No, it's the water. >> Okay. >> The woods is here. The water's here. >> All right. And then there's so >> the road to out that way. >> This is >> All right. I just had it. Where the hell was that? Here we go. >> It's called Russian Run Lake, I think. >> Yep. Go there all the time. >> So, right. >> Right here. Here's the water. Here's the road that you came in on. Okay. >> Okay. Where would you say the water was again? >> Right here. That's water. Okay. >> So, there's usually the portaotties right there. Does that look familiar? Does it? >> Yes, it kind of does. And is there like a driveway going this way? >> Yes. Yes. It actually goes this way. >> So, I was parked at the parking spot that they were there. >> So, did you pull into a spot? >> It was like down this way. Like those lines were kind of faded. >> Yeah. So, you parked kind of down this way. >> It was close to the bathroom, but not close enough. So you were So you were actually nosed in. You were pointing towards the water. So you got two kids over here. [clears throat] >> And then you've got James milling about. Let's say that's you right there. >> Okay. >> And you got James milling about over here. Right. >> Mhm. >> Is that right? >> Yes. >> So where was James whenever you backed up and pulled out little James? Well, I wasn't all the way into the parking spot. I was just like halfway there. Not all the way there. >> Um I went to just Well, I didn't even have to back up. I just went to go this way. >> So, you just went to loop around and pull. >> Okay. >> And he was He didn't have a handle when I looked out my mirror. >> Mhm. >> When I went to go pull away, I'm guessing he had the handle, >> right? And um and then I went to go drive off and he of course >> sure >> had a handle. When I looked he didn't have it >> and uh and then he was >> so real quick. So here's the porta potty there's the water here's the road coming in. Uhhuh. >> Let's say so your part kind of like that. >> Okay. >> Yeah. With my headlights this way towards the water. >> Towards the water. So you got >> all the way in the parking lot. >> Sure. So you got a little bit of room there. >> Yeah. >> So show me where James was whenever you put it in drive. >> He was like right off of here. Like he's tall enough. He can reach over and grab a handle. >> But he wasn't touching the handle. >> No. So then which way did you pull out? Did you >> I just went like this. >> Okay. >> There was plenty enough room to do. >> Sure. So you pulled forward, looped around to the left. The other kids are where? >> By the stall. >> They're over by the big port. >> Yes. >> And then at what point did you see James on the ground? I want to say when I went to I heard kids screaming. I don't remember. I thought I was for sure Rachel, but they both could have been screaming. I don't know. >> Why were they screaming? Because you were leaving them. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Cuz they knew I wasn't just >> Sure. >> So, um, they were standing by the bathroom stall, whatever it is, and James was kind of standing close to them, but not that close. And as I showed you on the paper, I just went around him and didn't realize he had the handle. >> Did you see him grabbing a handle? >> No. >> Okay. You're just >> But when I kind of like he I'm assuming he grabbed the handle cuz I kind of pulled him a little bit, not much. And he got up and then fell back down. I guess I kind of probably made him hurt his knee on the ground or something >> and he lost his balance. And Um, he tried to catch his balance. He didn't get to and he fell and busted his head on the ground. >> And you drove back to the >> I didn't drive back to the house. I went back to get him. >> How far away did you get? >> Um, just down the road a little bit. So, keeps moving on. There we go. So, here's the road. This is the main entrance. Let me go back. That's the main entrance. And that's parked a lot. Okay. >> So, that's the main entrance. I when I you come out the driveway. I remember um turning this way. >> You turn left. >> Yeah. And then I only went there's like this little cut off kind of like pull off to the side of the road. >> While I went there, I just turned back around and went back. >> Did you sit there at the pull off at any length of time? >> No, I just >> Okay. >> When you come back, he's on the ground. >> Yes. I was like, you know what? I'm not leaving my kids. He can just get mad, leave, whatever. >> What day did this happen? >> Right. >> What time? >> I want to say 2 3:00 >> in the afternoon or was it >> in the morning? >> At night. >> In the morning. >> Like at dark. >> Well, it was dark outside. Yeah. >> Yes. But it was >> 2 to 3:00 a.m. in the morning. So, was it Thursday night into Friday morning 3:00 a.m. or was it Friday night into Saturday morning 3:00 a.m.? >> Friday night until Saturday. >> Okay. So, it was actually Saturday morning at 3:00 a.m. >> Yes. >> And it was dark. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> I couldn't see nothing. It was raining. >> Okay. Okay. How big was the blood spot? Um, I want to say about the half the size of my purse that fits on the ground. >> So, make circle with your fingers and just like this. >> Show me up like this so I can see >> like that. >> A little bit smaller than a basketball. >> Um, I want to say about a basketball. >> About a basketball. >> It could be a little bit smaller. I don't really >> What the blood look like? Was it thick and chunky >> or was it just >> I didn't really [clears throat] to be honest I really didn't pay attention to what I was more worried about trying to come back. >> Sure. >> So when you got back home with James you're back you come back with the kids. U how do you bring James? You carry James into the house or does James go out and get him? >> Um I carry them in. >> Okay. Um, >> where the clothes at that you were wearing when you carried them? >> Sitting on top of laundry. >> Are they dirty? >> Yeah. >> They got blood on them. >> What were you wearing? >> Um, [clears throat] gray air sweatpants. >> Mhm. >> And a pink shirt. It was like a color pink. Maybe a little >> a hoodie. Um, >> was it a hoodie? Was it a sweatshirt? >> No, it was just a t-shirt. And then I had my pink and >> whatever. It's a coat. >> A jacket? >> Yeah. >> Were you wearing those shoes? >> I believe so. Yeah. Um, >> sorry. I got like four or five pairs of shoes. >> Right. I got you. >> So, you come you carried the boy back inside. >> You'd already contacted James and told him what happened. >> Okay. By text or by by call. >> It was a text. >> You You sent him a text? >> Yes. And then he called me, told me to bring him back because he couldn't get James to listen. And James had bruises on him from him hitting him. He's never hit me, >> right? >> Ever. >> But okay, >> where were the bruises at? >> Um face I want to say all over. Put it >> from James hitting him. Hitting yourself. >> Okay. >> Trying to punish him basically. >> The other two children >> sometimes. Looks like she's got remnants of a black eye. >> No, he's never hit her in the eye. But >> does he ever hit her in the face from this? >> Um, he actually Yeah, cuz he kind of like punches them like they lie. He kind of either punches them or smacks them in. >> When was the last time he punched? Cuz it looks like she kind of >> I want to say like a couple days ago. >> Okay. What' she do? get in trouble for >> lying. >> I kept trying to tell him lies, not a sin. That's their kids. That's what they do, >> right? >> Sure. >> You'll eventually catch them in the truth later on down the line. >> Okay. So, you bring the kid back, you carry the kid in, and then what have where do you put the kid? Where do you put Jane? I just laid him on the live in the the when you walk in the door that room right there on the floor. >> The the front when you walk in the front living room. >> Yes. The front room. >> So the living room >> where the couch is. Yes. >> You lay him >> I laid him on the floor. >> Okay. >> The bare floor. >> Mhm. >> And he took him upstairs. >> James took him upstairs >> and put him in the bedroom. >> What time was it? I want to say like a couple minutes once I got back and carried them in. You took them upstairs and put them in the bedroom >> like in a closet where >> it was on the floor. There's a window here and a window here. You put it right there on the floor. >> Okay. So, as I go up the steps, there's two bedrooms. >> The straight >> Keep going straight. The straight bedroom. Okay. >> Is we're at on the floor. We're at in there >> right there on that not this front window but the side window. >> Okay. Okay. >> We're going to give you a few minute break and then we'll be right back. >> Do you need anything? You need anything? >> I wish I had anxiety medy three times a day. >> There it is. All right. Cool. Knock the door if you need something. All right. Is your popcorn? Yes. You want me to leave it here? You can put it right here.