I knew she was there. >> [sighs] >> How did you know she was there? >> Well, the motor was going. It was like, "Oh, no." You know, so I got up. >> This is Frank Bushower, a cold-blooded killer who thought he could outsmart officers after drowning his wife in their own home. >> I knew she was dead. >> How did you know? >> Well, I mean, she wasn't breathing. She had been under. >> And despite his lies, what Frank doesn't know is that detectives had already caught on to him, and all the evidence and possibilities pointed to a very disturbing truth. >> Our medical examination, the ME also noticed that there was petechiae in the eyes and the scalp, which indicates the same thing, a type of strangulation type thing or forced under where someone's actually struggling to breathe. >> Pick her up, and pull her over to the side, helping with the her with this tub, supporting her on the side of the this side here, putting her >> [music] >> down on the floor over here. >> My wife is She was drowned. She's drowned in the bathtub. She >> She's drowned? >> I want to confirm everything for you as we get him going. It's 60 Overbrook Road, correct? >> Correct. >> Okay. Is she Is she conscious or breathing at all? >> No, no. >> Not at all, sir? >> Not at all. >> How old is she, by the way? >> 46. 46. She was She was taking a bath in there, sir? >> Yeah, she was in the whirlpool. >> Okay. She was naked the entire time? >> Not at all. >> The man speaking with the dispatcher is Frank Bushower. He had just reported that his wife, Cynthia Chrisco, had accidentally drowned in the bathtub. When officers arrived at the house, they found Cynthia lying face down on the floor next to the bathtub. Unfortunately, Cynthia was pronounced dead. But when investigators asked Frank what happened, he told them he had gone to bed around 9:30 p.m. while Cynthia had gone to bathe around the same time. Then, around 2:30 a.m., he woke up hearing his son crying. He looked and noticed Cynthia wasn't in bed. Hearing the sound of the tub jets still running, he went into the bathroom, and that was when he found Cynthia face down in the water. Upon this discovery, he pulled her out of the bathtub before calling 911. Despite his story, investigators were suspicious from the moment they entered the house and met him. First, it took nearly 2 minutes for the first responding officer to arrive after the 911 call. Yet, when Frank opened the door, his clothes were dry. Officers noted it would be physically impossible to drag an adult woman out of a deep whirlpool tub filled with water without getting heavily drenched. When pressed on this later, Bush hour claimed he had changed his clothes before police arrived. >> [music] >> Second, there were no puddles of water on the floor, and items surrounding the rim of the bathtub were completely undisturbed, highly unusual for a panicked rescue attempt. The medical examiner found fresh scrapes on Cynthia's knee, knuckles, and nose, along with [music] a fairly deep hemorrhage in her neck. A toxicology report showed that Cynthia was in good health when she died. Based on this, the medical examiner concluded that Cynthia's cause of death was drowning, but the manner of death was undetermined. With no hard evidence suggesting murder, the case was closed. But, 10 years later, the case was reopened. By this time, a new owner had occupied the house, and he allowed detectives to remove the bathtub and use it for a reconstruction of what happened. During the reconstruction, detectives were able to determine how Frank could have entered the bathroom and drowned his wife. >> [music] >> They also determined that if Cynthia had been found face down, Frank would not have been able to lift her out without disturbing the bathtub and there should be particles of water on the floor unlike the dry ground they met in the bathroom on the day Cynthia died. Meanwhile, according to the reconstruction, there were puddles of water on the floor which made the whole scene surrounding Cynthia's death more suspicious. With this contradiction, detectives invited Frank to the station for an interview. >> As you can see, Bryant has been working on this thing for a while. He put these nice books together, put everything in chronological order. Um Different people that he's interviewed and stuff like that are in the book and we'll just kind of go over that. Uh back in 2000 when this thing first happened >> [snorts] >> uh you were interviewed by people from the state police. >> Right. >> And their interview is in the book also. Now, this happened 13 years ago. >> Yeah. >> Do you know what the date was? >> I called on February >> Mhm. >> Um I know that uh well, that's when I called. Early in the morning. I think it was around 2:30 in the morning. >> Okay. 2:30 in the morning. >> I think so. >> All right. So, February 28th, 2000. >> 2000. >> Okay. That's when this happened. >> Right. >> Okay. All right. >> Worst day of my life. >> Yeah. I can imagine. Very traumatic, right? >> Mhm. >> And at that point, how long were you guys married? >> We were married about 3 years and 3 months, right around that time. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> I know I've talked to a couple people, but how did you initially meet Cynthia? >> We were in the dating service. It was called Heart to Heart. >> Okay. >> And we met that way. She actually was the one that initiated the the contact with me. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> And then back then, you you guys weren't living in South Barrington. >> No, no. She was living with her mom in uh in uh Norwich and I was living in Des Plaines. >> Okay. And then when did you guys get married? >> We got married on October 5th, 1996. >> Okay. And then at some point you made your way to South Barrington. Can you tell me about that? What happened and like the decision to move out there and all that? >> Well, um my house was small and uh we decided Well, my wife made a lot of decisions. So, she decided she didn't want to be in a a small house, you know. We were looking around for a number of different a number of different places and finally found some property out in South Barrington, decided to have a house built. And uh that was probably the beginning of a lot of our problems having a house built. >> Frank and Cynthia's marital problems began after they finished renovating the house they had acquired. The renovation project had been given to Frank's cousin who overcharged them and failed to complete several installations in the house. Cynthia grew angry and repeatedly told Frank he should call his cousin back to finish the work. But Frank refused saying he didn't want to put his cousin in a difficult financial position. Because of this cracks began to show in their marriage and they eventually entered counseling sessions that continued right up until the day Cynthia drowned. >> And you mentioned earlier when you guys decided to build the house that was kind of the beginning of uh of Were you guys when you first married everything was good or >> Yeah. >> Can you elaborate on that a little bit? >> Well, >> [sighs] >> you know, when you're building a house Well, I had First of all, we hired my cousin to build the house. >> Who was that? >> Uh my ex >> Okay. >> And uh probably a mistake to hire a relative to do, you know, the work and so we uh you know, we got into it. Cost a lot of money, the over- overruns in costs and it was my cousin. We were My my wife was very disappointed in in the progress being made at the house. And rightfully so. Um And so there would you know, family is important to me. My cousin is important. I still love him. I respect him. Um Was she right about them not being competent? The people he hired, I I don't I trusted my cousin. The people he hired, I'm not sure did um Let me Let me see. I I I think they may have pulled the wool over his eyes and by doing so had cost overruns on our house and it caused a lot of conflict between Cynthia and myself. So >> And what do you mean cost overruns? How much are you talking about? >> Well >> I know that a little bit might be okay. How much How much are you talking about? >> Well, we're talking about a house that cost us $800,000 to build. Okay. >> That was the final price? >> That was right around the final price. >> Okay. >> Uh when I unloaded it before I moved out, okay, it it I lost about $150,000. So, yeah, you know there were cost overruns. Because how how can you have build a house for a relative or cousin and say, you know, you can get your money back out of the house. Um and she priced houses around the area and said, you know what, this house is nowhere near that cost. And uh she was right. I mean, and I you know, I admitted it to her. I said, yeah, I know you're right. And we had a number of meetings with my cousin and we discussed you know, all the details and I said, you know, they just they don't see it. Um that it's uh you know it's our choices. We We had granite countertops. We had beautiful wood floors. Uh all these extras were something that added to the price of the house according to my cousin. Well, we saw equivalent houses with the granite and the other things and nowhere near that amount. So >> It was more? >> It was >> was more. He underpriced it, maybe? >> I think he underpriced it, but I also think some of the men that he hired >> They may have taken advantage of him. >> Taken advantage of him. They worked over the winter and I don't think they got much done. The progress my wife caught them one time sleeping or making a little fire on the on the property, keeping themselves warm during the winter when they could have been working and getting something done or go home and not charge anything for their time. I think they charged us a lot of extra time that they did not achieve anything or accomplish anything. >> Now, your cousin, was he the general contractor? >> He was the general contractor. >> So, he didn't actually do any building himself? >> Yeah, he was pitching in He was pitching in also. He He would actually come on the weekends >> Really? >> and work and help and not put any extra charges on it, but >> Yeah. >> you can't compensate for the three people that are working full-time when you're working just one day a week, so >> Exactly. How about he had his own company? >> Yeah, he's got a He still does. Yeah, he did the construction. >> What did he primarily build? Like commercial, residential? >> yeah, mostly, you know, white and pantries. He did those type of things and he he did some houses, but nothing as big as ours, you know. >> So, could you would you say that this was like his first go at a house that size? >> Yeah, at the house of size, yeah. >> There he needed a lot of contractors beneath him and he needed to control it and it was going to >> Yeah, and I don't think it was controlled quite properly, yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. And so, you know, there were price overruns, it it caused a lot of conflict between my wife and myself. >> According to Cynthia's mother, she had loaned Frank and Cynthia about $100,000 toward building the house, a loan they were still repaying when Cynthia was found dead. Her mother also made another disturbing statement. She said Frank had told her multiple times that he regretted marrying Cynthia. Even at the funeral, Frank approached her to ask about her maiden name, a detail that seemed suspicious given that Cynthia had a life insurance policy naming her mother as a beneficiary. >> I mentioned I saw something in a report about a missing doorbell. Yeah, probably just some of those things that would be just annoying. >> You would You would think that they would put the wiring in for the doorbell to to the inside of the kitchen so that we could have you know, instead we ended up with you know, you can get a doorbell that's uh wireless and that's what we had ended up doing. But >> Jeez, at a $800,000 house or whatever, you're putting in >> Yeah. >> You personally are putting in your own doorbell? >> Yeah. >> No good, right? >> No good. >> Yeah. So they was he getting upset because >> Well >> she's kind of upset. >> Oh, yeah. I mean, we had >> Were they going back and forth? >> Oh, yeah. And uh she wanted me to have a number of meetings with him and we did have a number of meetings with him and we had uh um we had a mediator one one of these meetings from Willow Creek. >> Do you know his name at all? >> Oh, I hope I forget the the name because we we we did have somebody from Willow Creek. >> Uh >> Philip? >> Uh >> Axel Moto? >> Oh, uh no. >> You take a look at this one and just see if that's one right here or this one. >> Suppose a lifelong friend made legal written commitment to your mother. However, due to poor management, his business made you your mother incur a $100,000 loss which caused her to sell her house, go into public housing, not be able to afford necessary medical treatment to decrease her severe pain and discomfort. Of course, your friend thought he deserved uh to take 30 to 50,000 interest in mind. What would you think about the business ethics of this life long friend? Whose best interest does he really have in mind? How do you think this friend values your relationship and commitment? >> Do you remember reading that? At that time? [sighs] Does that look familiar? >> the one These are the This is the one of the letters that was written between you guys, right? >> Um I think so. I think that's the one. >> Okay. >> Is this a letter from her? Because me reading this, I don't really understand it, you know. It's written in the second person or third person, whatever. >> Yeah, she would always put it into a second person rather than specifically >> Right. Like your name, Frank, you know, this is directed like it's directed towards you, but not it's in the second person. >> I've got a couple of them here, but in this packet that I'm showing, I'm just going to write down the letter one on it. >> Yeah. >> And um just we can show you the rest of them. >> So we think this one the one that he just marked, what did you put on there? >> Letter one. >> Letter one. Okay. This is Cynthia's? >> Yeah. >> Is that the one she wrote? >> I'm pretty sure she wrote it. >> And then you'll know you'll know um which ones you wrote back in response. So okay, why don't you take a look at that one? >> [snorts] >> Okay. Well, >> Just so you can understand who's writing what in this. >> Yeah. I do not understand what you mean by crying over spilled milk when I bring up the housing situation. The item fixed strip list and overcharges of two to 300% could be could convict a contractor of fraud according to legal counsel. >> A letter detectives found after Cynthia's death revealed a possible motive. In it, Frank had written to Cynthia, "If we cannot resolve our conflict in a constructive manner, then divorce is better than assault or murder." The fact that Frank put such words in writing suggested it was something he had been thinking about for a long time. >> Oh, this is going to be hers. >> Mhm. Okay. And then it looks like it changes. I'll write letter two on this one right here that you just read. >> Yeah. >> Um just so we can keep track of what we're doing. There's just a lot of papers. Um and we can go through them again a little bit in a minute, but it looks like this here is obviously it's a different type of font. >> Yeah. >> So, I'm thinking this is >> That's mine. >> Yeah, it is. >> Okay. What does that one say? Okay, I'm Let's see if I'm >> You think you think of course not. >> Yeah, and that's what I'm trying to do, too. >> Yeah, I got to listen to >> Just kind of take a look and then let us know if this is a response to these two. So, Cynthia wrote these two that we know, and now maybe is this a response >> Yes. >> from you? >> This is a response from me. >> So, prior uh going into this counseling, Cynthia writes letter a letter. She gives it to you. And then you respond to it. >> Right. >> And now this is your response to that letter there. >> I wrote to her two letters, I think. >> All right. So, what is this What is this saying? And I I see some of these paragraphs are numbered. >> Right. Yeah, well >> there's one, two, three. And maybe if we keep on going, you know, like this one here, you know, it's got a bunch of notes on there. Part of the same letter, you know what I mean? It looks like it continued. On this one here, I'll just write just so we keep track again, I'll put letter a three. >> A close friend of Cynthia's who often babysat her son whenever the couple went to counseling told detectives that Cynthia once came to her house and said Frank had threatened to kill her after a major argument. Cynthia also said Frank had told her he wished he had never married her. Another friend told detectives that Cynthia once said Frank had grabbed her around the neck with both hands and threatened her. From that day on, Cynthia was afraid of him. >> Did she have people come to the house? >> Oh, yeah. >> Even on weekends, too? >> Um sometimes >> she save the weekends for family? >> Um sometimes on weekends. Mhm. Yeah. I don't >> Do you remember she had clients every weekend or not? >> Every weekend. I don't recall. Maybe on Saturday, but >> Mhm. >> Certainly not on Sunday. But I don't recall. >> So, you guys make dinner. She's in the office, maybe. >> Well, maybe. >> You're playing >> Yeah. >> Okay. Then then what happens? >> I don't know. Um getting ready for bed. I mean, we had probably had dinner late. We usually had a late dinner later in the evening. >> Mhm. >> [clears throat] >> 7:00, maybe. Playing for a while. Getting him ready for bed, getting him changed, ready for bed. Um Maybe did I did a little reading. I went to bed. I know I had turned out I was watching some TV in bed, and she wanted to take uh the whirlpool. >> Mhm. >> Something. >> Did she do that often? >> Um yeah. She she did, and uh and I turned on the water, heated water downstairs, and she turned it back up. So, I was wondering whether she turned it up. >> What happened? >> Oh, she always she would take a whirlpool. I mean, she put straight hot water in there. I mean, it wasn't She wouldn't mix it with cold water. I couldn't couldn't even take the heat that she would put in there. So, um and uh so, I turned the heat down the hot water heater down downstairs, so it wasn't quite scalding hot. >> Mhm. >> Um but, that's the way she she liked it because of her arthritis. She said it felt good for her joints. And and >> Have you ever taken a whirlpool? >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. >> Oh. Together or just separate? >> We we we took it together a few times and and I certainly >> to the point where you you couldn't stand staying in there or was it okay? Because the water was so hot. >> Well, I'd I'd have to have some cold water coming in before I'd go in. >> Okay. And then All right. So, she goes into whirlpool. >> Yeah. >> And where are you at at this time? >> I'm in I'm in bed. I >> Okay. >> probably watching a little bit of TV and then I turned the TV off. Uh I was I had my book. I was We had an assignment in the Peacemakers, the book. PR Peacemakers Peace Peacemakers, I think it was. >> Peacemaker. >> Peacemaker. Okay. And I was reading the book. And uh put it down for a while, fell asleep. >> Do you know about what time that was? >> This Maybe between 10:00 and 10:30. Somewhere around there. >> Mhm. >> Cuz [clears throat] that then work is the next day and So, I fell asleep there. And uh didn't wake up until I heard crying from which was about 2:30 in the morning or so and I rolled over to I mean, I it was her turn to, you know, take care of them and you know, it was like, "Well, Cynthia, you want to go in the you know, the other room and roll over and she's not there. >> All right. >> And then I hear the motor in the top of the toilet. >> [snorts] >> I knew she was in there. >> [sighs and gasps] >> How did you know she was in there? >> Well, the motor was going. It was like, "Oh no." You know, so got up and ran in there and found her. >> How did you find her, Frank? >> I went in there and I was looking in the in the top of the top of this cabinet. This cabinet was some sort of thing. Apparently it was her body. And I had looked forward and the water was still running in the tub. And I didn't see her. And then I reached down and was looking and I think it was at the opposite end and I reached down and picked up and saw her face. And I knew she was I knew she was dead. >> How did you know? >> Well, I mean, she wasn't breathing. She had been been under there and then I I pulled her out of the tub over the side and and then onto the floor and and I just left and went into the uh bedroom and made the call. >> Mhm. Do you know how long before the time you pulled her out of the tub till you called 911? >> Uh I don't a matter of minutes. 5 minutes. >> Okay. Could you kind of explain to me the layout of the tub? How does How does the bedroom, you know, Where is the tub compared to the bedroom? >> Well, the tub there's there's a There's the bedroom is here. And then there's there's a uh There were two the the two vanities. There was a door, two vanities, and then there was another door into the the the bathroom with a whirlpool tub. So, she had closed the first door and the second door. And uh And then she was in the tub and then and uh of course it was you could hear it hear it going from the bedroom. >> Mhm. >> Um But the tub was a raised tub. It had one step there and then into the tub and And there was a window in the back overlooking the backyard. And then the the to the side there was another entrance to the the bathroom. There was actually a a walk-in closet that was really really long. It must have been about I mean it's probably 30 ft long this closet. And then there was a walk-in closet and that door was closed and the door into the bathroom I don't know. It was it open or closed? I don't recall. Um but that was another door another entrance into the bathroom that way. So, there were there were two two entrances into the bathroom. >> What did you say there's a door between the bedroom and the bathroom? >> Yeah. >> One door? >> There's one door. >> Regular door? >> There's a regular door between the bedroom and the two vanities on the one side. >> Mhm. >> And then the >> [clears throat] >> Then if somebody wanted privacy to be in the you know, one person in privacy. >> Mhm. And there was another door that led into the bathroom. >> Would it be normal for her to close both of those doors when taking a bath? >> Uh Yeah, I would Yeah, I would assume it would be. But, I mean, her her mom used to say Well, her mom told me she used to stuff a towel in between the door and the the bathroom when Cynthia would take showers or baths just so she could monitor her. >> During the reconstruction, water death expert Andrea Zafarris sustained wounds strikingly similar to those Cynthia had at the time she was found dead. Despite Frank's claim that Cynthia drowned accidentally, the reconstruction showed how unlikely that scenario was. Several pictorial positions were also released showing various positions Cynthia could have been placed in that led to the injuries seen on her body. Forensic experts determined that the deep internal bruising in Cynthia's neck could not have resulted from an accidental fall. It was fully consistent with a hand clamping down heavily on her throat to hold her underwater. The fresh scrapes and bruises on her nose, chin, scalp, and left eye matched the blunt force of her head being violently shoved and dragged against the hard porcelain of the tub. Fresh scrapes on her knuckles, arms, and knees showed she had been actively fighting back against an attacker while trapped within the confines of the tub. And most notably, Andrea sustained wounds similar to those seen on Cynthia the day she was found dead. >> You opened the door. >> The first door, yeah. >> First door, you looked in? >> Yeah, then I had to open the second door to go into the bathroom. And uh I you nothing but the the scummy layer the top of the with the water at the time when I walked in. >> And now was the tub filled to the top? >> The tub was filled almost to the top, yeah. >> When you first looked in? >> When I first looked in, mhm. >> And then you look in the tub? >> I looked in the tub. Um I don't know whether I looked in the tub and didn't see her there. I might have looked in the tub and shut off the water and opened the drain because I was told later on that the tub level was down and that there was 6 in of water according to some radio report. Well, that wasn't said. >> Radio report, who you by that? >> Well, the next day somebody told me, "Oh, we heard about it over the radio. Cynthia was Cynthia died and she drowned in 6 in of water." And I said, "No way." >> Mhm. Somebody heard that or >> Somebody heard that I did. Somebody told me and they they said they heard it. I said, "No way." Because the tub was full and uh I know for sure that it was full. >> So, when you went in there, were the lights on in the bathroom? >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. >> Lights are still on? >> Lights were on as far as I can recall. >> So, you notice she's not in bed. She's not You hear the tub running. Door is closed. Open the door. You go into the tub area, bathroom, and tub still running. Lights are on. You look in the tub? >> I didn't see her. I didn't see her anywhere when I went in there. >> No. >> No. >> And then you go to the tub. What happened then? >> Well, it's a good question. I'm not quite not of the details whether I closed them, whether I shut them. I reached in. I did I think I reached in and didn't feel anything initially. And probably shut the probably shut the tub off. >> You shut the tub off? >> Yeah. And I >> When you shut the tub off, then what happened? >> Well, then I was kept looking around and I found Cynthia at the other end of the tub, not towards the where the faucet was. It's a big tub. And she was over at the end. >> How big do you think it was? >> Oh, I'd say it's about half this room over here, a corner and half here. >> Mhm. >> A big whirlpool tub. >> I mean, to the point that she's under the water, can you see her or not see her? >> If it was just water, you could see her. But there was a scum on top of the water that she apparently had gone through. >> Mhm. >> And so I did not see her. >> So then you reach into the tub? >> I reached into the tub. >> Feel her? >> Feel her. >> You felt that she was in the tub? >> Yeah. >> Okay. Was she face up, face down? Do you remember? >> She was definitely face up and they told me that wasn't possible the last time I interviewed people and I'm saying no way, she was face up. >> Face up in the tub? >> She was face up. I saw her. I pulled her out and she was face up. >> Frank's story was inconsistent with what he originally told investigators on the day of the murder. He had said he found Cynthia face down. But if that were true, her ending up face up, as officers found her, would have been impossible. >> Now, the drain, where's the drain in? >> The drain was >> the end of the tub, middle of the tub? >> I believe it was I believe it was right near where the water was coming in. That was where the drain was. >> Okay. So there's a spigot there. >> Yeah, the spigot. >> Where the water comes in. >> Yeah. >> Directly under spicket? Drain? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So it's not like the drain is at one end of the tub like a regular tub. The drain is at one end and then your head is at the other end. So >> I think pretty sure it was at the same end. >> Do you remember? Okay, uh let's say this is the tub here. You walk into the bathroom. Um Do you remember if her head was to the left or to the right as you're looking at the tub? >> Well, if I'm looking at the tub, the spicket's over here. >> To the right? Okay. >> To the left. So >> Okay. So her head is on the left-hand side. Is that by the drain or away from the drain? >> Well, I think it's away from the drain because I think the spicket was over by by the the drain was over by the spicket, I believe. >> So the spicket's in the middle of the tub. >> I don't I don't recall, but I think it was at the right-hand side of the tub. >> Okay. All right. So you walk up to the tub. You all see her. >> I don't see her. >> Feel around. You feel her. >> around over at the the right-hand side of the tub. Then find her. So I [snorts] I could say I probably shut I don't remember shutting off the water, but I probably did. >> The the jets, right? But not the water coming out of the spicket. Was the water coming out? >> Water was coming out of the spicket, yeah. >> Oh. What do you do? Leave the water running while you're sitting in the tub? >> Um I wouldn't have, no. But it was running at the time I went in there. It was running. >> The water was. >> The water was, yeah. >> Now let's see. You you go to bed at 9:30, 10:30. Now it's 2:30 in the morning. You think the water was running that whole time? >> Um I think it was. >> 9:30, 11:30, 12:30, well, that's 5 hours. >> I think it was running. >> 4 or 5 hours? >> With the sink with construction and plumbing it would have flooded or something? Would have had some issues? No? >> Overflow drains. >> Was it working? >> Uh, yeah. Overflow drain was working, so it was probably in the overflow. >> Okay. Is that normal for her to do that, leave the water running? >> No, I would think she would have turned >> Well, if she didn't have enough hot water, uh, she would have let it run. >> But if she let that run like that, her your hot water tank would have diminished like quickly. >> She, yes. >> That water would have been cold running out of that faucet if it's running that long. >> Yep. Yep. >> Did you notice if the water was cold, warm, hot? >> I I thought it was >> [snorts] >> It it I don't recall, but I don't don't recall it being cold. Um, there is a heating element on the tub as well, though. So, when it's circulating, so when it's circulating, you got the heating element going as well. >> That keeps it warm? >> That's why I don't >> Okay. I don't know what the water goes down, so. >> No, I certainly didn't. >> Okay, so you reach in, >> Yeah. >> you feel her, what happens then? >> Well, then I pull her out of the tub. >> How did you pull her out? >> I went around the top of her waist, uh, putting under her arms, pulled her over to the side of the tub, and onto the floor. >> Um, face up, you're saying? >> Face up toward me. >> So, now you got her, your arms underneath her, supporting her, and then when you pull her up, was she face up? >> Yeah, she was face up. >> Okay. So, you pick her up, as she is. What happened? Put her Were you standing in the tub >> Standing out of the tub. I had pulled her over to the side of the tub. There's, you know, there's some area. I pulled her up onto the side of the tub, and then placed her on the towels, some two towels. >> On the floor? >> On the floor. >> Do you remember if she was face up or face down on the floor? >> Oh, I don't remember. I don't know. >> I mean, maybe think about it, you know. >> Yeah. >> Detectives were already closing in on the lies Frank had told, and he knew it. >> If you don't mind, stand up and just show me how you actually got her out, just so I don't mistake it. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Well, >> So, like, say this is the tub right here. >> Okay. If this is the tub right here, >> Mhm. >> I was down like this, then down on the floor. >> Is this the actual, like, outside here, and there's a step you're saying? >> There's a step there. >> Okay, so you go here, and then what did you do? >> I pick her up. I pull her over to the side, helping with the her with this tub, supporting her on the side, you can see the side here, putting her down on the floor over here. >> Was she directly in the front of the tub, or >> She was, no, probably towards the back on this side. >> Okay. >> Pulling Cynthia out of the tub the way Frank described would have disturbed the items around it, but nothing appeared to have been moved. That struck investigators as strange. >> When you're pulling her out, did you knock anything down, because from looking at the pictures, there was a lot of stuff around the side, um, some glass jars, and looked like a coffee uh, deal. >> a dispenser there. >> Right. Was it I mean, if you're going in that way, just looking at the picture, I'm just wondering, did you knock anything over? >> No. >> In uh, you know, a rush to you know, you just discovered her. >> Okay. >> And then nothing? >> Nothing. Okay. So, did you just pick her just up? >> I picked picked her up pretty much. I mean, she has the buoyancy of the water of a full tub, okay? >> Mhm. >> Uh she's under 100 lb. So, picking her up, you know, not a real big deal. >> Right. >> So, I picked her up and put her on the side. >> Did you kind of have to drag her? >> A little bit little bit, not much. >> Did she get injured at all when you pulled her out? >> Not that I'm aware of. >> Nothing? >> No. >> Did you see any bleeding anywhere? >> No. No, I did not. I A little bit from the mouth when I first got her out. >> Okay. >> And so, there was a little bit from her mouth that went onto the uh to the towel. >> Did you get wet when you pulled her out? >> Not much, you know. >> What What were you wearing at the time? >> Um probably a T-shirt and PJs, you know. >> Mhm. >> Whether they were blue or green, I'm not quite certain. I was cross-examined on that and told I was lying because I said it I think I said either green or blue and then it was >> Well, we're we're not worried about the colors. Yeah. Yeah. >> I don't know. I don't I don't know. >> Did you change prior to the police getting there? >> No. >> No. So, whatever you had on when the police got there is what you were wearing that day. >> Right. >> And when you went to bed. >> Right. >> Okay. >> Frank initially told detectives that he had changed clothes before they arrived on the day Cynthia died. But even if he had been wearing the same clothes, there was no way he could have avoided getting wet given that the bathtub was nearly full of water. During the reconstruction, the man playing Frank's role was soaked after pulling Andrea out of the tub. >> You didn't get wet by pulling her out of the tub. >> Um if I did it was very minimal. >> Okay. Um How about her? She had to be wet when you pulled her out of the tub. >> Oh yeah. Yeah. >> Was the floor wet? >> Um not that I'm aware of. No. >> And it wasn't overflowing. >> No, it wasn't overflowing. >> Like there was water spilled on the floor or anything like that from the tub? >> No. >> The water being on? >> Yeah. >> Okay. And then you pulled her out, put her on the floor. You say there's towels on the floor? >> Yeah, there were towels probably next to the tub. I probably just pulled one down from the rack or whatever. Put her on some towels. >> Okay. Uh looking at the picture it looked like she was covered. There was a sweater or something on her. Something red. >> Then somebody else put it on because I didn't put it on. >> You don't remember putting a towel over her or anything like that. >> No. >> Do you remember when um the police got there? I you said you called 911. >> Yeah, yeah. >> Okay. And then the police got there quickly or it took a long time or >> They got there pretty quickly. Yeah. Um and 15 maybe 15 minutes to a half an hour maybe. >> They got there 15 minutes later? >> Yeah. >> After you called? >> Yeah. 15 minutes maybe a half The police The police got there about that time and then there were other people who came quite a bit later. >> Okay. But the first officer >> The first officer that got there maybe maybe 15 minutes or so. >> 15 minutes after you called? >> Yeah. >> Okay. Do you remember what that officer looked like? >> No. >> It was me. >> Oh, really? >> Yeah. >> [laughter] >> Oh, okay. >> I met you at the door. >> Okay. >> I might not have this much hair. >> Okay. >> But, I'm the first officer that got there. >> Okay. >> I got there within a minute. I remember that. >> Okay. >> And I didn't know what it was, and you greeted me at the door. I said, "What's up?" So. >> Okay. Uh do you have pictures of >> Yeah, we can show them. Frank's got some pictures of the uh top area and stuff like that. Maybe we could uh maybe take a look at those and >> Okay. >> maybe it'd be easier to describe exactly what happened. >> I have a couple sets here in this room. >> Have you seen pictures? Did they show you any pictures way back when? >> They showed me some pictures. They showed me that her knuckles were scraped and I I really don't know how she got all those injuries. >> Mhm. >> [clears throat] >> Well, let's take a look. Let's take a look here. >> I have a couple of large and small ones, too, but these are just the big ones. This is >> This is the house here. >> I'm not this house one. That's the house that you lived in, right? >> Right. >> Okay. Um I remember at 2:30 in the morning, I got there pretty quick, and I met you at the door right there. >> Yeah. >> Um >> Can you look at these, too? What do we have here? >> What's this? Can you just grab that for me? >> Oh, I got a toolbox there. You know, that's that's our bedroom. We were in the bedroom. >> That's actually one of the evidence officer's toolboxes there, I believe. But, I'll just mark this as the bedroom. >> Okay. >> One. Okay. And is this the bed that you were saying that you fell asleep in? >> Yeah. >> Okay. And then I believe would you describe this picture here as I'll call bedroom two? >> Okay. Uh yes, that's the >> Is Is this the bed here? Cuz it looks like bedding. >> Yeah, it's just the the cover on top of the >> Right. Like your comforter or whatever. >> Yeah. >> And is this the view into >> Yeah, that's the >> And these are the two doors right here that you mentioned? >> Right. >> The first one here and then the the one further down and then in the whirlpool right there, correct? >> Right. >> Um Are these solid doors or louvered doors? >> Those are solid doors. >> Both of them? >> Yeah. >> Okay. And then um the one thing I do remember when I got there I can you brought me upstairs rather quickly is that she was covered with this red sweater. >> Um Um I remember that. >> Um right there. So we'll move on. This is uh bedroom two. We're moving on to the next picture here which is we'll just put victim one. Is that what you covered her with? >> I don't recall I covered her with anything, but >> Okay. >> Um Where's the whirlpool in this time? I don't see the whirlpool. >> Well, it did It's all white right here. You can see the ceramic tile. >> Okay. >> Um here's like the first step that you were mentioning to me. >> Yeah. >> And then here's the wall and then the whirlpool's up here. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Um Is this where you laid her down? Um Yeah, I would guess so. >> Okay. Now, when you laid her down, were her legs in this position? They're in a fixed position here, what we call rigor mortis. >> I do not recall them being in that position. I do not recall details like that, no. >> Okay. This is Cynthia, right? >> That is That's her. >> Looks like her. >> Okay. So, this is Cynthia one, then. >> Mhm. >> Right? >> Or victim one. >> Oh. So, which is what? >> Let's call it Cynthia. >> Yeah, we'll call it Cynthia. Okay. Okay. >> Here's another view of Cynthia two. >> Okay. Mhm. >> Do you recall Here's Now you can see the whirlpool in this one. And she's laying next to the tub there, face down. >> Okay. >> Do you remember uh putting her in in that position? >> I don't remember putting her in that position. I mean, all I remember is bringing her out of the tub here and onto the floor. >> Where were you standing at, Frank? >> Well, I had to probably get up on the step here in in order to do that. >> A step or way up there? >> The step right here. >> On the first step first step. >> Okay. >> So, you're standing on that step. Initially, you stand on the step, you look in the tub, don't see her. And then what do you say? You start feeling for her? >> Feeling. >> Cuz the water's high. >> Mhm. >> And then you feel her >> Mhm. >> you see her face up and then you reach in pull her by under her arms? >> Probably under her arms, yeah. >> Mhm. And kind of pull her head first over here? >> Yeah. >> And then just kind of slide her >> Mhm. >> or did you lift her up and place her down there? >> Um as far as I recall, I slid her out, but I don't recall lifting her. >> Lifting her. Cuz she's not that heavy, you know. You could lift her up with no problem, right? >> Probably. >> Mhm. And then maybe with the adrenaline flowing or something like that, you might have a little extra strength, boom, pull her out. >> Okay. Here's a picture of the whirlpool inside. Um I'll call it whirlpool one. >> [snorts] >> You see the the water is slightly got a good brownish tinge to it, but you could see the bottom to the bottom and you can see some of the um feces or vomit that >> Yeah. >> came out. Um >> Mhm. >> The one thing I remember when I got there >> Mhm. >> is that the tub was not full. >> Right. And the motor was still running. And I remember that the motor was bothering you and you wanted it shut off. >> Um Yeah, maybe. Maybe. Yeah. >> Do you remember the water was running at that time? >> No, not when I got there. The water wasn't running. The water was a just a little bit higher than this level, which is right around the the jet the lower jets area of the big jets, the main jets, I guess you should say. Um and then I saw her in this position just like you She didn't change. We didn't move her when we took these pictures. It's going to look like that. >> Um Anything that I'm telling you is incorrect? >> Nothing I'm aware of. >> Okay. So, when you got there, the water level maybe below the jets? Is that why it's making so much noise? >> It could have been. The motor was definitely running and >> No bubbling? >> No. And if it was, it was just from spray going over it. Um but I know um that later on there after not that long actually, um you asked to have that motor shut off. And I think we ended up shutting it off at one point obviously because it's not running right there. Um Let's see here. >> Okay. >> So, is this how you found her or >> No. >> Okay. >> That tub was way up. >> And you can see right here on this one in this picture, this part of the whirlpool, but there's actually some of that scummy you talked about. Either it's vomit or feces. I don't I'm not sure what it is, but it was at that level. >> Right. >> So, I could see that the water was at that level at one point. >> point it was at that level. >> But when I arrived there within a minute or two after you calling, I mean I was right down the street. I was actually at the movie theater on the street >> Okay. >> um when you called. So, it was, you know, at 2:00 in the morning there's no traffic, so I got there real quick. >> Okay. Frank, how does the level get from being way up there to way down there within a few minutes? How did that happen? >> Well, apparently I shut off the spigot because it was running. And uh I don't whether it took me 5 minutes to call and make the call and whether it took you 1 minute to to make it there, I don't know. >> Why would it take 5 minutes to call 911 when your wife's life is in danger? >> Pictures were suspicious also. So, that's why at that time um there was the ruling that was made at at this at that time uh warranted further investigation. So, uh we've had experts look at these pictures. You know, and we actually met with experts at uh we've been working with two. And what's happening now this case has been ruled a homicide. It's not accidental. You know. So, there was injuries on her neck, too. Where there was a big hemorrhage hemorrhage on her neck. To where it looked like somebody had her by her neck and pushed her under the water. So, and we're believing at this point it may be, you know that you may have had something to do with uh getting pushed under the water and drowning. So, that's where we're at at this point. >> There's three medical examiners which are all experts in the area of water-related death. Along with two experts that are um in the field of water death investigation have all written opinions that saying there's no other reason for this uh what happened Cindy other than a homicide and that she was forced under the water. Uh the hemorrhage on her neck indicates that she was held under the water for a period of time where she did drown. She did drown, but it was because she was held under the water. And then during the medical examination, ME also noticed that there was petechiae in the eyes, in the scalp, which indicates the same thing. A type of strangulation type thing or forced under when someone's actually struggling to breathe. So, we've in the last 3 years had five experts extensively we've reconstructed the crime. Um and they all concluded and written wrote opinions that led to the change of this to a homicide. >> Frank, if you had something to do with this, um you're going to have to let us know now. You know, I just say you've been thinking about this thing for the past 13 years. So, we want you to tell us the truth and exactly what happened here. >> Well, we know that you're a good person and we understand what was going on in the background, but I know it weighs on you and you know what happened. >> I've always wanted closure on this. Now, I can tell you one thing. Um My son one time came down to the kitchen and he opened the cabinet door and he peed inside the cabinet. And I slapped him on the butt and sent him to bed and cleaned up. And the next day I asked him what happened and he said, "Nothing." He said, [snorts] "I don't remember you slapping me on the butt. I don't remember doing that." The only way I could have done this would be that without any recall because I don't recall anything. And that's the truth. >> Frank, listen to me now. It's not like there's somebody stuck in the house and did this to her. You're the only one home. >> Right. >> Uh your son is way too young. You know, so I mean, everybody that we talked to in recent past year has said that this is a homicide. No doubt about it. And you know, we believe that. With all the stuff that's been going on here with the house problems and all that somebody passes out in the water. They don't have 17 different injuries to their body. It just doesn't happen. So, legit man, you got to think. You think hard. There's no way it's not like you dreamed this or anything like that, you know. There's no way, you know. I have you know what I'm saying? I have no recall of anything now. You got to you got to say something. You can't just say I have no recall. Plus with with Brian being there so fast, the water being low, looking at her body, she's dry. You're dry, she's dry. There's no water on the floor. The only indication that she was in the water, her hair was damp. There had to be some time between the time you pulled her out of this tub and put her on the floor that you called 911. It wasn't an instant thing like that. You didn't call 911 in 2 minutes later, he's there. First thing he noticed, everybody's dry. How does that happen? And that her legs are up in the air, which is a sign of rigor mortis. All right. If you look at the positioning of her body, it couldn't have happened the way you're saying it happened, the way you're telling us now. If you look at her Here she is lying on the floor. Her legs are in the upright position. Her body is stiff. To her over the side of the tub, her body wouldn't have been like that. Plus, this indicates to us that she was face down in the tub. There's lividity, like Brian talked about, on her bottom. If she was face up in the tub, her whole back would be red. You know, lividity would lividity would be on her back. Everything's on her front. Um putting her back in the tub, if she was back in the tub in this position, her feet would be sticking out above the top of the tub. So, when you walked in there initially, you would have definitely seen her. There was no feeling around for her. The lighting was, you know, basically the way it is right here. Um And what you see >> What we see, like the way you're saying there, the legs are actually formed in in um rigor mortis to the actual shape of the tub. Her head was where you said it was. But she was face down and the legs were going up on the side of the tub. And they rested there for a period of time until you pulled her out and they remained in that position. They don't just when you take her out, they don't just go up. They have to stay in that position. Or if you like you said, it would have been flat. You would have not seen this. This tells me a lot. And I remember that specifically. It's the one thing I remember that when I walked in that room, I knew she like you said, she was deceased. But I checked for a pulse. And I saw that these two legs were in a fixed position, which would indicate along with that lividity that she was laying face down. Opposed to what you're telling us, face up. >> And she'd have to be there for a period of time for that blood to settle like that. When your heart stops pumping, you're not circulating anymore. So, your blood settles to the lowest level. So, that's what happens here. And then as time goes on, it gets thick, you know, when you're deceased. Um rigor mortis sets in. So, this indicates to us that she's been there for a while, you know, before you called 911. So, and looking at her in the position she is, like I said, her feet would have been sticking over the top of the tub. So, when you first walked into the room, there's no way you didn't see her, you know? So, the tub was still in the house. And we actually had someone the same size as Cynthia get in the tub. And when they put their legs in that position and their head in that position, the legs actually go up and where you could see them out of the water. And also we I consulted with somebody who's been a whirlpool expert for Jacuzzi for about 40 years. And he says, "Even with a bubble bath, soap in there, you still would see a human body." >> I'm sorry, but I remember what I remember, right? >> You got to think back cuz we're here to help you through this thing. You got to think back like it was yesterday, you know what I'm saying? >> You know, the last time I went through an interview with this >> Mhm. >> I was asked, "How did I put my hands around her neck? And how did I do this? And how did I do that?" >> Mhm. >> I didn't as far as I recall. >> Mhm. >> And I don't recall any of this. >> Do you recall >> I recall >> being in the bathroom when she's taking a whirlpool? >> I recall All I recall is pulling her out of the water at about 2:30 in the morning. And I recall the tub being full and the water running. Um and the the vomit the top that I couldn't see her. That I recall. >> But that can't You can't confirm what you're saying. >> That's That's what I recall. >> I'm not I'm not arguing with you, you know what I'm saying, but it's just looking at the physical evidence and then what you're saying >> What I recall >> The physical evidence doesn't match what you're saying. >> I don't know. >> And you're You're an engineer. So, you kind of understand where we're coming from. We're using facts. >> Mhm. >> Non-emotional and facts to tell you what we believe happened, backed up by three medical examiners who have done thousands of autopsies, specifically more or less with water-related death. And they say there's no There's a zero chance for any other possibility. There's zero chance. And we took photographs of the outside of the house so nobody broke into the house. So, if it wasn't you, then who was it? >> No idea. No idea. I mean >> Frank, listen. You're a religious person, right? >> Mhm. >> Cynthia's got to rest in peace. But we need to know the truth here. >> Yes, we do need to know the truth. >> And we believe, listening to you now, you're telling the story, but when it comes to the whole story, it seems to me like you're leaving something out. The part where you don't remember and stuff like that, I don't believe that part. Me personally, I don't believe that part. You know? And this is the part we got to get past, you know, because the physical evidence shows something different. The pathologist that did her autopsy, we had the number one pathologist in Cook County, all of Cook County, look over this, and she agrees, too, that it was this is homicide. You know, the cause of death on her uh death certificate now is homicide. And the I believe the method is by holding her under the water. >> Right. >> So, we got to explain that away. Otherwise, you know, there's still outstanding issues here. Um we actually have the bathtub. We took the bathtub out of the house and recreated it. You know, we know the bathtub was leaking. We know how much it was leaking. The rate it was leaking. They did a leak test on it. And we know how much the water in the drain didn't seal correctly. So, they did a leak test on it to see how long it would take the drain down to that level. Uh and what you're saying doesn't match the work that Brian did on this case. So, we had somebody that we filled up the tub. We put somebody in it, and we actually did all kinds of simulations to figure out what happened. But, you know what? We did for you. And I know that you want us to say that. And I know you you don't want us to break your lips. But, for your closure, what you know is true. You guys were having arguments about this house. It was heated. Those letters were exchanged. There was most likely an exchange with between you guys once you were in the tub, and you just blew. Because the next day you called somebody else and said you might have done it in a fit of rage. People that we've talked to, they all believe that you had something to do with this. And I've got from reports back then that this wasn't the only time that Cynthia was threatened, you know, there was some physical like were you getting really fed up. You know, and this you got to stop this with you just got to stop this or I'm just going to leave you, I'm going to divorce you, or I'm going to kill you. You know, one of those things left your lips. And like you said before, the marriage was a mistake. But we need to come to closure on this because everybody and you're a man of science or engineering, you can see by what we're telling you it does it makes sense. It's not illogical for what we're telling you. I mean, no person that drowns has 17 wounds on their body including a hemorrhage in their neck. You don't just get that by falling asleep in a tub. There's got to be force applied to it to cause bleeding inside. And it was two up here. And it doesn't have to be force, well just enough to hold it down and to cause a hemorrhage. And sometimes it can be just a little bit of pressure. >> And that would explain these injuries on her also. You know, cuz she's trying to get out of the water and you're pushing her into the water. So, there's got to be a struggle going on here a little bit not some massive struggle or anything. >> She's not even trying to fight you. She's just trying to get out. So, she's just scraping her knees. And when we did the recreation with somebody in there, they started cutting their knees. They started accumulating the same injuries. The same things happened to somebody else when we simulated the same thing with what we believe happened. But, you're the only person that knows what happened. And Cynthia is not here to tell us. And you're the one that can explain this thing away. Exactly. Instead of saying I don't remember anything, I don't recall. >> what? I'm not the one that can explain it away, Bob, because I don't recall. I really don't. >> Despite Frank insisting he didn't recall the details, the evidence was stacked against him. The reconstruction, the position in which Cynthia was found by the first responding officers, the rigor mortis already present in her body and the wounds on her neck, knees, and elsewhere. With this information, detectives arrested Frank and charged him with first-degree murder. On October 3rd, 2019, Frank was sentenced to 25 years in prison.