Do you remember what you said to him? >> I don't remember saying anything to him. >> Cuz he remembers. Cuz he was taken aback by it. >> I don't I don't He said, "No, I'm not going there. It's just my roommate. She's a crackhead." >> Oh my god. Are you kidding me? All these people are saying these horrible things. Okay, [snorts] I'm going to be done talking because I don't have anything else to say. >> I mean, all these people have no reason to say horrible things about you. >> I don't know why they are, you guys. I I was not there. I would have never done anything like this to her. >> Spoiler details are in the video description and the full results of all charges in the case are laid out at the end of the video. >> So, we're just kind of going back and trying to talk to everybody, [snorts] absolutely everybody again that was talked to the first time. um and just learn everything about this case that we can and figure out any little details that may have been overlooked or something. Okay. Um so I guess what have you been up to the last 15 years? [laughter] >> Oh my gosh. I just work I had a little girl >> 12. >> Yep. And uh got married in December. This last December. [snorts] >> Um just I just work. [laughter] Where are you working? >> Um, I work at Northstar Community Car Union. >> Okay. And you said you work from home on Saturdays. How do you do that from home? >> So, I I'm a I do dealer loans. So, when loans come in from car dealerships, I'm the underwriter on those. >> So, I do them from my iPad and I remote in from my computer at home. >> Okay. Oh, that's kind of nice. >> I actually I used to like it and now we change systems and it's very slow and it's very frustrating. So, >> is that like an all the time thing or is that just a co thing? Nope. So, there's two of us and we rotate. So, we rotate weekends cuz if the dealerships are open, we have to be open. So, like days that the banks aren't open, but the dealerships are open, >> we're open. So, then we work from home so we don't have to go into the office. >> But during the week, you go in the office. Yeah. They had us working from home for a while too because of co and it was so hard. So hard. >> Do I wear pajamas? >> Yeah. Right. Do I >> It's like you never leave work or I don't know how to explain it. It's just hard to stay now. My home is my work. Like I don't like that. >> It's not right. It's not right. I don't I couldn't be that kind of person that had an all the time work from home job. >> I couldn't do that. No. I need to go into the office to get me out of a funk. I don't like being cooped up in my house. >> Yeah. >> So, >> that's for sure. Um, okay. So, let's kind of get to meet you went to school in Belva. That's where you grew up, right? >> And [snorts] Anita went to school there. >> Yep. She moved there. What about middle school? >> Freshman year. >> Okay. >> Well, no, eighth grade year. >> Okay. And then tell me a little bit about that. How did you guys meet and how was school like? >> So, you know how eighth graders are when new kids come to school? Kind of like make them an outsider. Um, I was having a birthday party that weekend, so I invited her so she could get to know like all the other girls in this class. Um, she ended up staying the night. We had a really good time. I brought her home the next morning. I was I had my license young so living on a farm. >> So I brought her home >> and then um we we just kind of hung out and like Velvet kind of was clicky so like once you found your groove you just kind of went that way and she we didn't hang out a lot in high school anymore after like 9th 10th grade. Um I mean we we did not not like each other but we just we had different friends. Well, I mean, it's it's a small school, small town. I mean, everybody knows everybody and >> Yeah. >> I mean, it's not like I know I know what that's like. So, >> yeah. So, then we went to we both went to the same college. Neither of our roommates ended up working out. Um, so then we ended up roommates in the dorms. Um, so we were in the dorms together and then we decided that we were going to move into an apartment together. So, and then at that at that point, like we were in the dorms and stuff, we were like inseparable while we were together all the time. Then we moved out to the apartment. I quit um college because I didn't really know what I wanted to do. So, I didn't want to pay for college and not know what I was doing. So, I just got a job and then my job schedule and her school and work schedule it just clashed cuz I worked either 3:00 p.m. to 1:00 a.m. or 1:00 a.m. to 1:00 a.m. >> or 1:00 p.m. to 1:00 a.m. So, like I was coming when she was going, she was going when I was coming. And honestly, like we just kind of we didn't really drift drift, but we just we didn't talk much. I I worked and I was busy and I I regret now like looking back like I wish I we would have communicated more because maybe I would have more answers, but I don't. I just I I didn't talk. And once I get in like my own groove and I'm busy, I I I've learned now that I reach out to people a lot more often cuz I have really bad anxiety about all this. >> Okay. I uh am so scared to lose people close to me and like I I don't hold grudges. I like this is flipped my life upside down. [snorts] I just I'm not the same person I used to be. So looking back I wish I would have talked to her more, knew who she was hanging out with, but I never asked questions. I just, you know, at that age, you're both you're just doing your own thing. You're trying to find yourself and Yeah. I don't know. So, when you you guys were in the dorm, was it like in Cook Hall? >> Uh, I think >> that was the freshman dorm. >> Yeah, the freshman dorm. Yeah. The one right on the corner. >> Okay. Yeah. And then when did you move out of there and get the apartment? >> Oh my gosh. Uh, I know we moved in the winter cuz it was cold. January. I want to think I want to say it was January. All I remember is really cold. So, >> so like in the middle of the school year. >> Yeah. >> Um, and then how was that arrangement set up? Like, did you just split the rent down the middle? And then how about utilities? What was how is that working out? >> Oh gosh, I can't remember. I know we split the rent down the middle and then I think we split utilities too. Like we just >> I don't Oh, it's hard. I don't even honestly remember, but I thought we split utilities. Or she paid one thing and we paid the other. I don't even Maybe sometimes some of those things are included in your rent, too. So, it's hard to say. >> Yeah, I don't remember. Too long to remember. [laughter] >> No, it's been a long time. Um, so kind of fill me in a little bit on Anita's personality. What kind of personality was she? >> She's fun. She's bubbly. She's outgoing. She's talked to anybody. Is super sweet. Um, I think some guys maybe took it too far that she was so kind that they thought she was flirting. >> But if if that was the case, then she'd be flirting with all the girls, too, cuz that's just her personality. She's smiley, happy, bubbly. Um, she just liked to have fun. So, she was not home much. She had a lot of friends and she went and did a lot of things. So, [laughter] >> do you know what kind of stuff she was like to do? >> Yeah. She just like I mean once you got into college she really liked party with her friends. Um, [clears throat] I didn't really like some of the friends that she hung out with. So, I didn't I partied with them a few times and I was like no I was so busy working that I I don't have time. If I partied I wouldn't go to work the next day. And that was my that that's how I survived, you know. I had to work. So, um she [clears throat] liked to dance. She loved to dance. So, she would go down to the I don't remember what called now, but it's like I think it was the Chicago club at the time. >> Okay. >> So, she was down there like every weekend. So, she really loved to dance. >> Do you not so much? >> Not a dancer. [laughter] >> I grew up on a farm. Me neither. >> I don't dance. [snorts] about as stiff as a board. [laughter] >> That's right. [snorts and clears throat] Um, so do you know do you remember who any of her friends were back then? >> Um, I don't know what her last name is now, but she hung out with Michelle. I think it's Grubs now or I don't remember what her name is. I think she's been married three times. Um, they hung out a lot and then um just like that group of friends. That's the only friends like I really knew she was hanging out with. Um, she hung out with uh Nathan Ticker Hook, which I did not like him. I had bad feelings about him from the get- go. Um, and I had actually told her at one point, I said, "He doesn't get to be here when I'm here. I don't like him. He gives me bad vibes." And she's like, "Okay." So, he would go there when I wasn't there. And like as soon as this happened, it was the first person that popped into my brain cuz he's just there was one weekend I know that she had text me and she's like, "I drank Nathan. I drank your beer that was in the fridge." I'm like, "Okay, I don't drink it so you can have it." She's like, "I'll pay it back." I'm like, "Don't worry about it." And I'd come home and she had like bruises like all over. And she said that she'd fell into her dresser cuz I drank too much. I didn't believe it for one second just because he was always he wanted more but she didn't because his girlfriend his ex-girlfriend was like crazy and was like following her to work >> and doing all this weird stuff and so she just told me they'd be friends and that's the last I knew about it. >> So I don't know if he she was still hanging out with him but like I said I think it was probably a month like that we even really talked very much. [snorts] >> So were they dating or just kind of hanging out? I don't I don't know what they were doing. >> And the friends like Michelle and Nathan and anybody else she was hanging out with, were these friends from high school or were these new friends she met? >> New friends. >> Okay. >> Like new friends she had met in my not when we came here. So I don't know if she met Michelle in college or how how that >> did she um [snorts] stay friends or with anybody from high school or did you stay friends with anybody from high school? >> Yeah. Um we all had been really close still through college and stuff. Um, and then after she had passed away, I still was kind of close to them and then they just kind of drifted and none of them will talk to me anymore. >> Why is that? Do you know? >> I don't know. >> Okay. >> Makes me >> sad. Um, so tell me a little bit about like your living dynamic. I know you said you worked a lot. Like how many hours a week were you working? >> I was working 40 hours a week. I was full time. time. >> And then [snorts] >> she was also working. >> Yeah, she was working part-time at Vanity. [snorts] >> Um I had previously I had got her job at Vanity cuz that's where I had worked um previously and then I got offered I looked for a job where I wasn't spending all my money on clothes. [laughter] >> Did you get a discount at least? >> Yeah, but that was the problem. They just take you buy clothes and it comes out of your paycheck and then >> you get your paycheck and you're like $40. [laughter] I'm like, how do I pay my rent? >> Oh, no. >> I [snorts] was like, I just needed something else. So, I needed a big girl job. I wasn't going to be going to college. And my dad strictly told me, "You will get a full-time job and you will work." He's tough love. He He's very strict. [laughter] >> Well, so was he Let me Was he paying for college? >> Like when you were going Okay, so that makes sense. So if you're not going to go to college, >> Yeah. I'm like, "If I don't know what I'm doing, Yep. If you're if you're not, you're going to get a job. I'm not going to help you pay your rent. I'm not I'm not going to pay your car insurance. I'm not paying your cell phone. You know, you're going to be a big girl yourself. So, >> all right. Welcome to the real world, I guess, right? Thanks, Dad. >> Y >> I thank him for that. >> Well, you know, Yeah. I mean, [snorts] you have all these coddled kids these days that >> it's probably better, right? You're probably better for a person for it in the long run. >> I like to say so. Yeah. Um, do you remember when you quit working at Vanity and started was where was it? >> Teleare. Okay. >> I do not remember when I quit. I probably did 13 years ago. [laughter] Yeah, >> I'm sure. >> Even when I put on like your resume, I'm like, I don't even know when I >> It's hard [laughter] to keep track, right? >> Um, it was sometime after we moved because I think I had already gotten a job there before we moved into that apartment. >> Oh, okay. So, I I was pre-planning, you know. >> Right. So, >> um So, what was her work schedule like? Did she was only parttime at Vanity, right? >> Yeah. And then she had she worked at the Fairfield in too. >> Okay. >> But I don't know like she didn't work there like all the time and then she didn't work Vanity all the time depending on her class schedules and I don't know her what her schedule was at that time. Um, so she would basically school, work, party, come home super late. Like I remember coming home 3:00, 4:00 in the morning sometimes, going to bed, sleeping, getting up, going to school, coming back, changing, going wherever else she was going. So like like I said, like most of the time I was sleeping well trying to sleep. [laughter] So, we didn't we didn't talk much. >> Um, and so how did that make the living arrangements? Was there any problems between the two of you? >> The only problem we really had, and I know there's so many stories. There's so many stories like her mom's like, "Oh, well, you guys," she said she was scared. She never was honestly scared. She would text me actually when we would go places. She's like, "I need my wingman." and stuff like I don't know where her mom got the fact that we were like actually got physical cuz that never happened and I never slammed her foot in the door so I don't know where all that's coming from but we had a disagreement about an alarm clock one morning that was I I was home obviously I got home at like 1:30 and then I wind down and go to sleep. Well, her alarm clock was going off at 5 at 5:00 a.m. Our rooms were our own rooms. We either we locked them when we were gone or we didn't. we just that was our space like you know I don't know but um so the alarm clock was going off at 5:00 a.m. and I'm trying to sleep because I'm so I texted her and I was like dude I'm going to smash your door down cuz your alarm clock's going off but I mean to me that's I mean I would say that to anybody I'm tired I'm trying to sleep. Why is your alarm clock went off? So it went off for like an hour and I was like dude next time you need to make sure you shut your alarm clock off cuz like that's respectful >> right >> you know. So that's like the biggest confrontation we had and we had really resolved that issue, you know, we had talked about it. We weren't mad at each other like typical roommate stuff you you with someone all the time, >> you know. So >> So she would lock her bedroom when she wasn't there? >> Yeah. >> Would she lock it when she was there as well? Okay. >> No, just when I would do the same thing like if I wasn't there or whatever, I would lock it. Um sometimes I would, sometimes I wouldn't. I don't know. Sometimes I forget. I don't care. And but we had we had that agreement like that my room's my room, your room is your room. I don't go in your room, you don't go in mine. So I don't know, it was personal space thing. >> Did you guys spend much time in the common spaces like the living room, kitchen together or? >> Yeah. Okay. Yeah, we did. Um I always told her she would always I don't know if it was like a California thing, but she'd be like walking around her bra underwear and the the windows wide open and the lights are on. I'm like, "What are you doing?" And you know what? You guys, this is the worst thing she said to me. Well, it's not Calie, it's my not. And you guys, it's like rings in my brain because I'm like, oh god, it's not Cali, it's my not. Like, really? What could happen to my not? I'm like, no. >> Right. >> And I Yeah, >> it just it just [clears throat] goes to my brain all the time. >> Um, tell me about the the incident with your fish tank. fish tank. Oh. Uh, one of my friends poured beer in it. >> Oh. >> And filled it with beer instead of water. >> Okay. >> I don't remember anything else about the fish tank. >> It can't be good for fish. >> No. No. It killed all the fish. >> Um, cuz we had heard that Anita had unplugged your fish tank at one point and that killed your fish cuz she didn't like the noise. It made too much noise. >> I don't know anything about that. >> No, I know. All my fish died because my friend poured beer in the fish tank. >> Good friend. >> Yeah. I don't remember anything else. >> So that didn't happen. >> No, I No. >> Okay. So, let's get down to that weekend as much as you can remember. [snorts] So, let's start Friday cuz you I think worked Friday. >> I did work Friday and then I went um out back to my parents farm. >> Okay. You went to your parents farm that Friday night or >> I think I went Saturday morning actually because my cousin was leaving for like basic training or Iraq or something. I can't even remember what it was but um we were having a party for him in Son. So I think I left that Saturday morning because I worked late Friday and then went to sleep and then woke up Saturday morning and left. Honestly though, I can't 100% remember if I left Saturday morning or Friday night. Okay. So, but yeah, I was >> And do you remember if Anita was home Friday night when you were there? >> I don't remember. >> Okay. >> I do not remember. >> I'm sure I did at the time. Probably. >> What about Saturday? If if it was Saturday that you left, was she there in the morning when you left or did you see her vehicle parked in the parking lot or >> I don't remember that either. I don't remember. >> Okay. And then did you go straight from here to Sydon to the party or did you go somewhere else? >> Yes. >> Yeah. Yeah. I think I picked up my cousin. She rode with me. My cousin Alyssa. >> Where did she live? >> She Where was she living at the time? >> I think she was living somewhere in town. She's like five years. Yeah, she's like five years older than me. So, >> I [snorts] believe I picked her up and then we went >> rode down there together and then Yep. Cuz then I came back and she she owned um a bar in Russo. Her and her husband did. And that's we came back and stayed there and I helped her serve like food. >> So after the party in Son, you went to Russo the bar. >> Yep. which is just like 5 miles south of my parents farm. >> Okay. >> So, >> do you remember about what time of day that was there? >> I think we came back from the party like 5 or 6 and then we went and we I stayed at that at Russo for till probably 11 or 12. >> Okay. >> Serving. So, I would help her when I was out there cuz it was something to do. I'm always like to be busy. [laughter] So, >> yeah. Um, and then so after was that you say to like bar clothes or >> pretty close. >> And then what did you do then? >> Went back to my parents house and went to bed on the couch. >> Went to bed. >> So did was that normal for you to sleep on the couch at your parents place? >> Yeah. So my my parents didn't they have a small double eye trailer. >> Oh, okay. >> And my si my sister was still young at the time. So that's where I slept. My dad, as soon as I went to college, my dad turned his one that went my room into his office cuz it was that's what it was supposed to be when they ordered the house and then my mom found out she was pregnant. So then he didn't have an office anymore. So >> So your sister got the bedroom and you get the couch. >> Yep. I always slept on the couch. Even so even after I got pregnant and I moved back in with my parents, I still slept on the couch. >> Okay. >> So actually I bought air mattress and I slept on the floor on the in air mattress. But yes, there's a small house. >> Space is limited. Yep. Right. >> Yep. Um, so you got back to the farm about what time? >> I would say it was probably midnight, 11:30, midnight, somewhere around there. >> Okay. And then you just slept on the couch. Do you remember what time you got up on Sunday? >> Nope. I know. I had to go. Was it Sunday? I had to do something with my car insurance. Or was that Saturday morning? Oh my gosh, this is so hard. I know. That weekend I was doing something with my car insurance with my dad. We had gone into Velva. I don't think it was Sunday though cuz I don't think she was open Sunday. I don't remember what day it was. Oh, Sunday we shot gophers. [laughter] We were out shooting gophers on the farm. >> Yeah, but like the whole pastor's plastered with them. So, yep. That's what we did on Sunday. I don't remember what time I got up, though. Usually, so when I sleep on the couch, my dad's up at 5:00 a.m. >> So, I probably just lay there. probably was awake, but he's up at 5:00 a.m. all the time making breakfast, being noisy, watching TV. >> He's a rancher, right? So that's that's what he does. >> Yep. Yep. So, >> um would you normally like thinking back to then when you were like what 19 20 years old? Would it have been usual for you to sleep in to like 10, 11? Or were you kind of since you're a farm girl, were you always a I'm get up at 700 a.m. and help with chores girl or Dad didn't make us do that. But if we were sleeping in past 9, it was it's time to get up. >> There's no reason to sleep. Like the half the world's awake is what he always tells us. I've done this already this morning. I'm like, okay. So, he didn't really let you sleeping, so he didn't care. But like when I was at the apartment and I worked, I would sleep till right like probably 12. So I get up and >> just get up and go to work. >> Go to work again. This is the same thing every single day. So, so yeah, at that time I did sleep in. [snorts] [laughter] >> So, >> um, did you did you go home to the farm often? >> Yeah, >> almost every single weekend. >> Okay. >> Yeah, I missed home. I don't like being in the city and I don't even know why I moved here cuz I miss it so much. I miss being at the farm. But, >> um, so Sunday you got up at whatever time and then you went shot first. Did you spend the whole day at the farm or did you go >> I stayed there again. I stayed that night again. Um and then I worked Monday but I stayed there. Monday I think is when I had to do my car insurance and then I went Yeah, cuz I we got up I went with my dad to Velva. We did my car insurance and then I went straight to work because by that time it was all done. I needed to be to work at 1. So I didn't even stop at home. I just went straight to work. I just said I was going to be late. [laughter] So, >> was that would was that normal for you just to go straight to work from the farm or I mean pretty much would go right by your apartment on the way to work. >> Yeah. I had no reason to stop though cuz I always made sure I packed so it just was an it'd be an extra stop for me and I'm like very um >> I don't know how to put it, but I hate extra trips. I think I learned that from my mom when I was younger cuz when we'd come to mine out to go grocery shopping, it was one trip, get it done. We're not coming back up here. there's no extra stops there, you know, it was like, so now it it kind of trained me. I don't like to make extra stops. If I'm going somewhere, I'm going to get everything so I don't have to go back all week. Like, so yeah, I just always would usually go straight to work. There's no reason to stop at home. So, >> okay. Um, and you said sometimes your shift was at 1:00, right? You'd work in one afternoon. >> It depended on like if we were short staffed, which we were most of the time. >> So, do you remember if that's the shift you were supposed you worked that day? I think I worked the one to one that day. >> Okay. >> I think so. So So I know my lunch break. Oh god, when was my lunch break? I think I had to take an early lunch that that day. I don't remember. But that's [snorts] where I I was at China Star when I they called me and told me I needed to go to my apartment. >> Oh, okay. >> I was eating with a coworker. I was just going to ask you if when you take your lunch break if you stayed at work and you had like a break room thing that you did or >> normally normally that's where I'd go. Um but then sometimes we'd all like be like, "Hey, you want to go here? You want to go here?" So, um my well coworker Kayla, she was like, "Let's go have Chinese." So, we had time. We had an hour lunch, you know, >> an hour for lunch. >> So, we went and did buffet and that's where I was. And then [snorts] I told we went she came back to my apartment with me and she stayed with me and then um >> And that's Kayla you said. >> Yeah. >> Do you remember her last name? >> No. God [laughter] don't remember the last name. >> Okay. >> I see her once in a blue moon but we weren't like super like close close. We were just work people acquaintances something to do. And >> and you were with her at China Star when you got the phone call. And do you remember who it was that called you? >> Well my phone kept like ringing ringing ringing. And I normally I don't answer phone calls so I don't know who they are cuz I'm nine times out of 10 I'm like if you need me you'll leave me a message, right? Cuz I get so much spam crap. Um but I didn't answer. And then my mom had called me and she said that the cops were trying to get a hold of me and that I needed to go to my apartment. If I didn't go to my apartment, they were going to come and get me at work. And I was like, "What the heck is going on?" Like I did I was completely blindsided. I had no idea was going on. So he pulled up and there was cops everywhere and tape. The first thing that went through my head was like, "Oh my god, we've been robbed." Right? Cuz it's my like you don't you don't think anything of anything. [snorts] And then [clears throat] when they told me what had happened, I think I just went into like this trance. Like I felt like everything was just blurry. And I I don't even remember if I cried. I think because I was just in so much shock. [snorts] And then they talked to me about stuff and I remember going and sitting in the car and them asking me if I knew anybody that like was bad at her or jealous of her. And I have a really bad coping mechanism. I'm very sarcastic. And I just said, "Well, if you were if you're looking for somebody that's jealous of you, you might as well just get a phone book cuz she's gorgeous." And then they said, "Well, we don't need the sarcasm." But that's I've always been that way like my whole life. So, I knew that I was like, "Okay, I can't do that." Um, but I don't, as far as like everything the rest of that day, I feel like it's just all blurred. I don't remember much at all. >> Do you remember what they told you? Um, they just had told me, they said that Anita was dead and [snorts] that she had been murdered, but they didn't know what time yet, and they didn't know, you know, all this other stuff. And I I was just, like I said, I was just in shock cuz like I grew up here. This is my home. And I've never heard of stuff like this, you know? And, uh, I just sat there outside in the grass. Um, my parents came up and sat with me [snorts] and I don't even they didn't tell me a lot that day. Um, but when I went to get my some clothes out of the apartment, they wouldn't let my mom come in. So, it was just me and they were like showing me things and they said, "Is anything out of place? Do you notice anything weird?" And they walked me by the bathroom and I just I just remember like the smell in there and seeing the bathroom sink and her room and I couldn't even get clothes. I was beyond myself. I can't I think I came out with a snow boot and like a hoodie and it's June. So, I just um I don't know. Everything just they didn't tell me anything though. They just said, "Does anything look out of place to you?" And I said, "My room looked fine." But was weird cuz I know I shut my door, but maybe they opened the door. I don't know. But the door was open in my room and I'm super picky about like my room being clean before I leave. So nothing looked out of place in my room, but I honestly I couldn't even look in her room anymore. >> Do you remember what day that was that you went back in to get the clothes? >> Oh my gosh. I think it was just like two or three days later. Okay. >> Cuz I didn't have any clothes anymore. I was just mom had washed the ones I already had in my bag. [snorts] But um yeah, I think it was a couple days, two or three days before I could go back in there. >> And you mentioned something about when you were walking in, you saw the bathroom sink. Was there something specific about the bathroom? >> They just pointed out the bathroom sink and they said, "What do you think that what do you think this is?" And to me it looked like blood because it was brown and it was in the water and or in the sink in the water or something. I don't know. I just remember seeing the bathroom sink and her bedroom. And those are the two things that just burn into my brain. And like when I talk about it, I want to gag because I just like when I talk about it, I remember what it smelled like in there. It's really hard. Sorry. >> What What kind of smell was it? It just smelt like like this is going to sound so horrible, but like when we have a dead cow out in the pasture and you [snorts] can smell it from a ways away, that's it just smelt >> dead and it wasn't uh it wasn't easy cuz I felt like I should have stayed home and I should have been there and what if I would have been there and all these things will go through my brain like she always asked me to, you know, be her bodyguard and I [snorts] just felt like I wasn't there for her when she actually needed me the most and I was too busy doing my own thing. So, I live with a lot of regret. Um, like I said, not talking to her much. So, all that is was just piling through my brain. Um, but then also kind of scared like this was my home. What if I like what would have I done anything? Could I have done anything? [snorts] Would I have been in the same situation? I don't know. But it's scary. So, I have a lot of trust issues with people. >> You [snorts] said you you saw her room that time when you went in to get your clothes. Was there anything that stood out to you that you saw about her room? >> That's just um they told me that like, can you just look in here? Does anything look out of place where it shouldn't be? And I just remember seeing the mattress and I think I just like blanked out. I just I I couldn't look at anything else. I don't I know her computer and everything was in the same spot that it's normally in. No, none of the none of the furniture in the house was moved at all. So, but they're like, "Does anything look stolen?" Like, I don't even know what was in here. Like, I we weren't in each other's rooms, so I don't know if anything was taken out of here or moved or I knew that her computer was in the one corner and her bed was over in this corner and that [snorts] was that was it. So, but all the the big things like the TVs and the appliances and stuff like that was all still there. So, it's not like somebody came in and robbed it. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Do you remember about that apartment? Is there there's only one door in and one door out, right? Um no back door or anything like that? >> No, just the the window in her room was like a longer taller window. >> Okay. >> Um and we always had our windows open. It was hot. We didn't have AC and her bedroom buted up against the laundry room. It's like that everybody used. So it was always hot because the dryer vents were always good. It was always hot there. But she always had her window open. I always had my window open, but I would close mine when I left usually. >> Okay. >> So, and mine was like a little Some apartments are so weird. There was my window was like tiny. >> It was like a little one >> that way, right? >> Yeah. And if I remember, it's been a while since I've been in those apartments, but >> I [clears throat] don't think much has changed there. So, >> they're coming. Um, [snorts] what about the the door? So, you go in the door and there's a deadbolt on the door. >> Yeah, I think so. >> Okay. And is that the only way to lock the door? >> I think you could lock it with the key in the door knob and the dead bolt >> and the dead bolt. Were they two separate keys or the same key? >> They were the same key, which I don't know. That's kind of weird to me. Okay. Yeah, I think >> I've seen doors like that before, too. >> Yeah, I think they were the same key. >> Okay. Um, and then was there like a screen door or storm door or something on it as well or No, just the storm. Just that door. >> Just the door. >> Did that door have a window or anything in it or was it just solid door? >> Just solid door. >> Okay. [snorts] Um, so you went through, you didn't see anything that looked out of place or odd other than what that bathroom sink situation, whatever that was. >> Yeah. >> Some water or something. It looked like water or brown stuff >> that was maybe blood. >> I don't know. >> And was it like the sink? Like the plug was in the sink and there was water in the sink or was there something else in the sink that had water? >> I guess I didn't look super close. I just seemed like there was stuff in the sink. >> Okay, >> got it. >> Like I had a hard time being in there. So I I think like I don't know if I had like I felt like I had shutters >> on my eyes and it just everything was so shocking and I think I was still in like just like a days for like days like 3, four, five days probably [snorts] and even like her funeral I think I was I was just still shocked and I'm not really a crier. I don't cry super often. And my dad will tell you that. Not really. [snorts] But um people were like, "Well, how come you didn't cry at her funeral?" I don't know if any of them know what it feels like to be in complete shock when you lose someone like that and the situation, how you lose someone. Um but I like I said, I was still in shock. I came here right after the funeral and talked to the detectives here. Um, and I I think this is going to sound weird, but um I seen therapy for all this. I never cried in therapy. And now the last couple years um they're trying to teach me like coping mechanisms. And I think I'm finally being able to grieve. Um, [clears throat] I feel like that was really stolen from me for a long time because so many people point fingers, you know, and [clears throat] I'm [snorts] not that kind of person. Um, it's hard for me cuz I feel like I I've had no room to defend myself, but I don't have any reason to, so I stay pretty quiet. um the page for her. I feel like I'm not even allowed to say anything, which is hard for me. >> But in all reality, you weren't that close to Anita. >> Um I mean, we were for a little while and then we just Yeah, we just kind of drifted. So, >> in fact, you were planning on moving out at some point at the end of the year. >> We thought about getting just, you know, cuz with our different schedules and stuff, it just it was hard. um because she would come home sometimes and be really noisy and or I would, you know, be there sleeping and she's it's not fair to her to have to be quiet because I'm sleeping, you know. So, we had talked about Yeah. moving and going our separate directions of apartments. So, [snorts] >> when you say that people pointing fingers, do you mean people were pointing fingers at you? >> I felt that way. >> Okay. >> I had really felt that way. Um maybe they just don't know the whole story which is you know you watch TV shows all the time you know and people think they know >> and people said you called Anita a [ __ ] and a [ __ ] and a >> oh my gosh and people can say that I would never do that. I honestly had nothing I had nothing against her. Um we fought over alarm clock we fought like just roommates you know roommate stuff. I would never say that about her. Um, the only thing I did tell her one time is she sometimes would leave guys on and then they would get upset and I said, "I just want you to be very careful because I don't want you to upset the wrong person." And it scares me because guys sometimes can get the wrong impression and I don't know. And she's like, "It's fine. Everything's fine." So I, you know, I had mentioned it the one time and that was it. I would never call her those names. I'm I'm not that kind of person at all. So that's what hurts me the most about this whole thing is that people like are making up stories about me and that's hard. That's not fair. [snorts] I never hurt anybody. >> Why would people do that? Why would people make up stories about you? >> I don't know. I don't know if people just were trying to put the pieces together themselves. I don't know. And anybody could try and do that, but >> I don't know. >> Was anything missing from your room? >> No. Did you ever tell him an iPod was missing? >> I think my iPod was missing, but then I ended up finding it in my car somewhere cuz I thought I had put it in my closet >> in my sweatshirt pocket, but then I ended up finding it in my cars. >> Did you ever call the detectives and ask how the investigation was going over the years? >> No, cuz they would come and talk to me sometimes like at my apartment or they'd call me and I'd talk to them every time. I didn't There was I didn't have anything else. I felt like to give you guys. I just as much as I would love to be able to give you guys more, I just like I said, I don't feel like I talked to her. I don't know who she was hanging out with. I don't know. I don't know where she was Saturday. It makes no sense to me that she wasn't answering her phone Saturday. >> So, what do you think happened here? >> There's so many theories that I've gone through in my brain that I don't I don't know. I don't know if someone was keeping her Saturday or took her phone Saturday or if she lost her phone Saturday cuz there's no reason she would never call her mom back ever. Ever. So, I don't know. I don't know. >> What about work? Did she ever just not go to work? She was supposed to work. >> She was always She would always go to work or she would call work. And that's weird. So, I don't know what was what could possibly have been going on Saturday that she would have not answered. >> Did she call in often? like she just like I don't feel like going to damn if you're calling. >> No, she always went to work. >> Okay. [snorts] Um so did you ever go back and move into that apartment again or is that it? You were done. You left. >> I didn't go back. >> And where'd you go from there? >> Stayed at my parents and then I felt okay enough to they moved me into an apartment in Velva. >> Mhm. >> And I It was hard. I can't I have a hard time being alone. So >> So you lived in Bela for a while? Were you still working at the teleare? Did you drive back and forth? >> Yep. [clears throat] >> Didn't you go to New Mexico or Arizona for a while? Yep. >> When was that? >> Moved away. Oh my gosh. Um I don't remember what year that was. Um was it like seven and eight? I think maybe 7ish 8 0708ish somewhere around there. >> Okay. How long were you there? >> Not very long. I thought I would like it. Hated it. >> What'd you go there for? >> Um I met someone so he lived down there. He was up here working and then I moved down there with him thinking life would be different, warm, you know. when my dad and I, like I said, my dad and I are now close, but we used to not be like for a long time. Um, probably since I was younger. Our we just butted heads a lot. >> Yeah. >> And I was like, I just need to get away from my dad cuz he was very he was a lot. And so I moved and I hated it there. I realized I needed to be back at the farm. So, >> how long after this? What happened to Anita? Did you move to New Mexico? >> Couple years, I think. >> You think it was a couple years later? >> Yeah, I think so. >> Okay. And then you came back from there and then what you came back to my or >> I came back. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Um, [sighs] so that that weekend you never came back into mine out at all? No, I was out at the farm the whole time. I had no reason to come back to town. >> Okay. >> So, >> so you never told your aunt Brenda that you came back to mine on Saturday to get clothes. >> No, I did not come back to my not. >> So, if she told us that, she would be a liar. >> Well, I would assume she's confused because I never came back to my not to get clothes. I packed the whole weekend and Saturday I was gone all day. I went to Sykes and then I went to the the bar and then I went back to my parents house. So I when I never had time to come back to my audition clothes. >> And you didn't go watch a movie at Alyssa's house or Joyce's house? >> No, cuz I was with Alyssa at the bar. >> Uhhuh. And when you left the bar, Alyssa went her separate way to her place and you went to the bar and you guys separate. >> Yep. >> Okay. [clears throat] >> Were you calling or texting somebody by the name of Ryan throughout the the days? >> Yeah. Yeah. like for a couple months. >> Pretty heavy. >> Yeah, we talked a lot. >> Mhm. >> And who was he to you? >> Um we were kind of seeing each other, but he lived in like Michigan, so we were just talking to each other. Just someone to talk to. I like with me working um I don't I didn't have a lot of people to talk to. You know, I was busy and so it was easy to text people and talk to them and was just busy and trying to find my my place in life, I guess. You think this could have been an accident? The person that killed you. What do you think happened? >> Um, I don't know if it was someone she knew or was hanging out with at the time. Um, like I said, I talked about Nick um a lot. Um, and there was a Mike guy that she was hanging out. I don't know what his last name was. Um, but he would come to the apartment when I wasn't there. Um, well, I wasn't there very often anyway. Um, I don't know. >> Do you go ahead >> do what do you know about how the specifics of how she died? Would you know what her injuries are? >> Um, they just told me that she had been stabbed. >> Okay. Did they tell you how many times she was stabbed? Did they say where? No, they just said that she was stabbed to death and it was multiple, but they didn't they didn't tell me how many times. They didn't tell me exactly where um that I feel like I didn't I didn't get told a whole lot um just about this knife that they had found. And um >> do you remember what they told you about the knife? >> That it was just like a like a switch blade knife. That's all they really told me. Do they [snorts] tell you where they found it? >> Okay. No. >> Well, and and you realize the reason they don't tell a lot of details like that is because it's an investigation and you know, we never know how that stuff gets out. We don't want That's how rumors get started. Yeah. Right. >> There's plenty of those. >> So, um, did they tell you if they thought it was a knife that like you guys already had in the apartment? Like one from the kitchen or something or >> No, we didn't have a lot of knives. The only knives we really had in the house was like steak knives and stuff or stuff like that. So, [snorts] >> what do you think should happen to the person that killed the need? >> Um, I think they should rot for a long time. [snorts] >> You believe in second chances? >> No. >> Not for stuff like this. This is um when you take someone else's life, you don't just take their lives. You take everybody that means that they meant anything to they you you take their lives, too. They took my life. I haven't been the same person since. Well, and you [snorts] know, we know there's at least one person that knows what happened to Anita and knows everything that happened. And what do you think about a person that could just keep that a secret all these years and never say anything? >> I don't know how you could do that. I don't know how you can live every day knowing something like that. I uh I think about her every day, you know. So, I don't know who ever would know what happened, how they could even live with themselves or live with knowing if they knew who had did it at the same time. It's the same thing. How do you How do you live every day like that? >> Right. >> Do you know William May? >> Yeah. >> I do. >> How do you know him? >> Um, we dated a few times and then we quit dating for a while and then we just dated again probably right before I met my husband. >> If someone told you you were at a party with William and you said you killed Anita, would that they be lying or would that >> they would definitely be lying. That would be a horrible thing for anybody to say. And >> did you tell people you failed a polygraph on this test? >> No. No. >> I never failed a polygraph. >> That's not true. >> I didn't fail a polygraph. You guys listen. This is corrected my whole life and I would never do anything to her. And I have cooperated with you guys to try and help do this. Like I want the person found too cuz I want my life back. >> [snorts] >> like I don't have to talk anymore. I do because I want this taken care of and I want it solved and I want people to know that it wasn't me cuz it wasn't me. >> Nicole, do you remember um a guy named [snorts] Matt Hansen? >> Yeah, he was my boss. >> Yeah. And he told us that you were at work when the police called and asked you to come to the apartment. You weren't at work. You weren't at lunch. No, I was I was with Kayla at lunch. >> He he went to you and told you that you need to go to your apartment. The police need you there. And do you remember what you said to him? >> I don't remember saying anything to him. >> Cuz he remembers cuz he was taken aback by it. >> I don't I don't He said, "No, I'm not going there. It's just my roommate. She's a crackhead." >> Oh my god. Are you kidding me? All these people are saying these horrible things. Okay, I'm going to be done talking because I don't have anything else to say. Okay. [snorts] I mean, all these people have no reason to say horrible things about you. >> I don't know why they are, you guys. I I was not there. I would have never done anything like this to her. >> I think it was an accident. >> No, absolutely an accident. >> It was not. >> Look, there's a chain of interrelated behavior. This isn't just one thing. There's DNA. There's your statements. There's other things here. And here's the bottom line. These detectives have been working on this for years now. I know. >> And it's pointing to one person. You got to understand this. There's going to be mercy or there's going to be justice here for the person who did this. >> There should be justice. >> There should be mercy, too. Maybe in some cases, like the detective said there, this was an accident. >> But it wasn't an accident. I didn't do anything. >> Who told you about the screen on her window? >> I don't remember who said anything about the screen. >> So, do you remember anything about the screen? All I remember them saying is that they found a screen or the screen something about the window screen. But like when I got there, everything was such a blur to me. If they would have said anything, I don't even remember. I don't remember a lot. >> There's phone records. There's DNA. >> I know. I gave mine. >> There's animal hair. Well, I don't I mean, I have cats at the farm, >> right? >> How would your cat hair get on her? >> I don't know. Does anybody else she was hanging out with have a cat? I mean, I was at the farm on the weekends. Like, I was never in her room. Like, you guys, I do. I need to get a lawyer. >> That's up to you. >> I don't I've never had to get a lawyer. This is ridiculous. There's just a lot of things, Nicole, that over the years, your your story has changed so many times. >> This has been 13 years ago, and I remember 13 years ago. I can't remember what for supper. >> Even then, it changed. >> Oh my god. I was not in town. Are you going >> stuff about her window screen that nobody else knew? >> No, I heard stuff about the window screen from other people. You told your coworker Donna that the window screen was cut. And why would you need to go into the screen if you had a >> key? Teleure. >> You guys, I didn't say any of this stuff. There's so many stories. >> All these people are liars. >> Okay, there are so many stories. I don't know anymore. Like I feel so attacked. I want to like get a lawyer. >> We're not attacking you. >> I don't want to talk anymore. >> That's fine. We're done. I haven't done anything. >> Nicole Rice was charged in March 2022 with class AA felony murder in connection with the 2007 death of her roommate Anita Nudson in Minet, North Dakota. On March 26th, 2025, a jury in Grand Forks found her not guilty after roughly 5 and 1/2 hours of deliberation. Because of the acquitt, no sentence was imposed and she is not subject to any supervision or parole. As of the most recent verified reports, rice remains free and the case is considered unsolved.