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read these to you um as you understand them and just sign an initial and then uh if you read the bottom and agree to talk to us as you understand them yet yeah so first one you have the right to remain silent anything you say may be used against you in court or other proceedings you have the right to consult with an attorney before making any statement or answering any questions and you may have him or her present with you during questioning you may have an attorney appointed to you to represent you if you cannot afford one or otherwise obtain one if you decide to answer any questions now with or without a lawyer you have the right to stop questioning at any time or to stop questioning for the purpose of consulting a lawyer so my only question is am i being charged with something no we're just interviewing i think you have to do it you're here you [Music] it is the 21st of october long day well what's interesting not to digress on some commentary here that we've done this for two weeks and we did it the right way every day every day you're on a set you rehearse they bring you what's called the cold gun the gun is either completely empty the chambers or there is a cosmetic piece so for example if you're the camera and this is going to sound silly and specific but if i'm pointing the gun close to the camera you want to see into the cylinder that there's material in there cosmetic material so those rounds are cosmetic mountains they put them in and you rehearse or even in a shop where you don't fire they pull them up and you see there's some material inside the cylinder they'd have a coal gun no charges they always handle a cold front with nothing in it to reverse and then when you shoot if you are shooting loads that are flash loads and they're usually in three denominations quarter half or four way down so that the flash is bright and the sound is loud louder loudest full load is loudest so if you're outside you want a full bang or a loud sound or inside you can do a quarterback right before you shoot everyone preps crew puts the earplugs in so put headphones on the camera's there very open there's a loose sight screen but you're the camera operator and there's the camera so i shall we shoot off camera you never shoot into the lens and you ship and there's a flash and a sound now i went to lunch she disarmed me i sat down uh hannah the car the alarm events person when she was always handled the guns were 99 of the time so i would uh if i had a cosmetic rifle with no ground though if i handed to one of her assistants i'm sitting there she disarms me we go to lunch we come back to lunch and they hand me the revolver the cold and they i just like saw the name again they they armed me and you're assuming as we've done every time that it's a gold gun for the rehearsal and i put the the gag in the shot you're the camera because i have a coat and i have a holster and i pull the coat over and i kind of cut my hands like i folded my hands and then i'm going to slowly sneak the revolver of the cold out and turn and shoot the ends of the guys or try to shoot them i take the coat over the thing and the camera's there i believe my recollection as she was there turned a bit like talking to him so her i think she was hitting the right armpit but this is all i know and that is that i take the gun out in the rehearsal he wants it very dramatic and very soft and kind of sneak up on it i take the gun out and as i take like as it clears into the barrel clears all the turn and [ __ ] the gun over here i turn and come the gun goes off it's supposed to be a cold gun nothing no flash charges nothing now this is a puzzle to me and this is making me very emotional now you know in my time and i'm older now but when i was younger and i was shooting guns and films i've never seen a theatrical flash around where the material went through someone's armpit came out their body and hit somebody else on the shoulder i'm wondering if your department is prepared to go find out what comes out of his shoulder surgically is that a live round that's what we are actually looking at is that a lot because i don't does it make any sense otherwise yeah yeah it's throwing the armpit comes out of her shoulder goes into his shoulder and he just told me on the phone i talked to joel he said they showed me the x-ray and the shape of the thing in my shoulder is the shape of a bullet now all the rounds i was told you need to verify that this is an important they take the gun they entered and all the rounds that are in there were either dummy rounds no flash cold rounds or rounds with a flash in the rehearsal there should have been nothing it should have been a cold gun with no rounds inside or dummy rounds cosmetic rounds no flash i take the gun out slowly i turn i [ __ ] the pistol bang it goes up she hits the ground she goes down he goes down screaming he's like jesus and i'm going and i thought that maybe sometimes the wadding can come out if you're closer you get a burn two actors who kill themselves with guns with theatrical guns john eric hexson and brandon lee they put the live round and i'm told even with the flash powder you can cause contusions and you can do a blame brain bleed and die which both of them died right i think with brandon lee there was a a a piece of material lodged in the thing that shot from the something yeah i don't remember vividly but my point is i've been doing this i shot enough guns in my day in movies i've never seen this before or a flash round but from my understanding is can that borrow your pen from here my understanding is that in a in a in a bullet you know here's the thing with the pin and here's the the bullet something now here when you have a cosmetic round no flash they drill a hole in the side of the brass to show to signify that it's a cosmetic round there's nothing in there there's no powder and but when you have a when you have a flash round and you have this and there's stuff in there wadding and powder to make the charge this material here that is the bullet is made of a clay or some material that just disintegrates so what you have is bang and you see the flash go bang by the sound but nothing there's no projectile and what i'm curious about is what came out of that bullet that went through her body and into his shoulder that's pretty powerful now some people say you can lodge material in the barrel accidentally a rock something that happens which is why she every time we've done this i'm here to tell you to testify that every time we've done this she'd done it right she cleaned the barrel made sure nothing was large in there we went hot when they were you always announced going hot the crew gets ready and then all of a sudden you're the camera and i shoot away from you i sit down like bang bang bang flashes are coming out we shoot the rounds she cleans the barrel every time and she checks that the rounds are all cosmetic rounds or nothing in the chamber for the rehearsal she hands me the gun i'm assuming she's done it the right way she's in the last two weeks i put in the holster i pull it out slow or rehearsing without filming anything i pull it out slow turn cocked the pistol bang it goes up and she hits the ground and then he starts screaming and i'm thinking in a flash round i can see maybe if there was wadding or there's some stuff like that that's hot and maybe it hits you and burns you then they say sometimes that happens but remember we're rehearsing so no one's protected so it's all supposed to be this one cosmetic one but my point is is that they were standing in positions they wouldn't ordinarily be in because they assumed it was an empty cold gun we weren't shooting we were rehearsing that's a vital difference so if she's here if the camera's here and she's standing here talking and i'm on a bench here and joel's behind her and this guy this is not proportionate because obviously the camera's not as big as her body when i draw the gun slowly and aim off camera and there's supposed to be nothing in there so she's not protecting herself and standing off i'm shooting in a direction and everybody is supposed to be to that side of the camera there's nobody in my line nobody and so when i shoot the gun so in the rehearsal i'm assuming i have an empty gun and the gun goes off she's right in front of me which is as far from me as i am from between difference between maybe you and the door okay so pretty close proximity oh [ __ ] they're very it was a very tight shot okay the shot was here of me not of me it's of me pulling the gun slowly so they turn [ __ ] okay and she's right there in a position she wouldn't ordinarily be if we were shooting and this thing boom she hits the ground okay all right i'm gonna back you up just a little bit okay how long have you been on set i arrived monday the 11th okay and started my fittings and my they were we were shooting the week before and the 11th of october monday the 11th i flew in from new york i flew from new york to denver denver to albuquerque because there's no direct flights and then drove from albuquerque to here okay rehearsed and fitted and did all my preparatory stuff but that was in october correct that was tuesday the 12th yeah i flew on the 11th rehearsed on the 12th started shooting the 13th wednesday the 13th desert shooting okay we shoot a wednesday through sunday schedule we're off monday tuesday so the entire time you've been on set have you seen the same armor working with you guys how many people are on her crew my guess is that what i witness is three okay all young women hannah and two other women all right and very often their task with me because we're not shooting every day guns we're not there's no armaments every day they dress me with my holster my knife the film is set in 1888 so i'm armed with the classic weaponry of the cowboy era okay and so they would make sure i was dressed properly you know 80 85 of their task is to make sure i'm dressed with everything properly the armors or just well the armorers wardrobe doesn't necessarily they sometimes trade back and forth but wardrobe doesn't necessarily deal with my holster okay and the knife but that's a prop the armorer hannah and her team they dealt with me being knifed and that being lashed properly so it looks proper okay and the uh holster okay and as much as it was props as much as it was armaments do you know hannah's last name no do you know what she looks like or can you describe what she looks like colored hair glasses uh you know uh not too tall everyone knows her pretty well because her father is a very famous armaments guy he's a guy that did guns and movies for decades he's very welcome okay she's a daughter of this famous gun guy movie gun guy and what about the other girls in her crowd okay do you know what they look like a blonde thin not too short you know kind of medium height and brunette someone on the shorter side maybe the same height as hannah brunette and uh and also there's a there's you go back and forth between they're wearing a mask most of the time on set right in order to do that but i've seen them with their masks off okay all right what time did you guys start today i don't know what time they started i came in slightly later because they had a couple of shots without me in the morning so i came in at uh i guess i arrived there in like about quarter date okay normally i'm there like 6 30. all right and then anything abnormal in the day who hannah or should i say who handed you your weapon in the day hannah did okay and physically hand it or put it in the holster okay she would show me the gun okay or she'd say she'd say test it or some language to indicate she handed me that it was fine and she said do you want to check okay that voice didn't want to insult her that's good we never had a problem yeah i said i'm good so and the first ad very often will ask periodically he'll say let me check okay and they'll have two people check for this very reason that we don't have any fl forget about live rounds of bullets if we have any flash rounds in the gun while we're rehearsing because if someone wants to indicate and they're not thinking they pull the trigger on the gun you just hear the hammer the the the dead sound of the hammer hitting and and you have no flash rounds at all in there for the bears the rehearsal gun should be empty okay and and as i said for the two weeks i've been shooting it has been empty we haven't had one problem and you have you physically checked that or just by her telling you announces to me that it's that's clean okay she'll say cold gun we rehearse then when she's done she takes the gun goes off to a corner she has a kit like a zip fanny pack with her uh elements in there she puts the flash rounds in there she'll say you know a quarter load to videos it's it's a lower salary she'll say full load and if i'm shooting if you're the crew and you're shooting me close you might want to say the full load it is rather loud it's very rough okay she's always announcing what's going on all right so have you guys backtracking a little bit on this um you know because she's telling you what's in these guns um have you guys been practicing with those quarter loads of full loads all that through the past couple weeks or have you shot with them i came in on tuesday that's what i did tuesday okay the 12th i came to the ranch rode the horse and just got used to that and because they have a double who really rides in the distance they're really fast athleticism you see me on the horse and they could do a watch out of another guy when i was a little horseman okay so today was not the first day that i shot on tuesday the 12th with the uh the henry the the lever uh you know arm action lever of the lever action rifle okay and the pistol i just shot both okay and all right moving back forward what time did you guys break for lunch today usually i think today was dave's book at 12 30. okay and who took the weapon at that time physically took it from you rarely to the other ladies the two other women handle the pistol that were that's live shooting in the scene as i said i have the henry in my hand as a prop i'd be running through the scene but no no bullets nothing when they say cut i could hand it to the blonde girl okay okay but whenever we were interacting with somebody where rounds were going to go in the gun you would have flash rounds in the scene we shot flash it was only hannah okay with her fanny packed with the rounds in there her equipment okay um do you know what time you guys got back from lunch i guess it's 1 30 by the time we all go back to the set up uh there's a base camp and there's the set so we go to the base camp for lunch they used to drive back get their wardrobe touched up get their hair touched up and make up whatever we do and then we're on so we put about an hour before we were back on the set okay and was hannah the one to physically hand you the gun at that point okay um during the time that you had it was it ever handed off to anybody else okay you see where she got the gun from no okay uh she has a station somewhere with all her stuff okay a couple different guns guns for the other actors she handles all the guns is anybody else allowed in that area i don't know but i know that on this i've never seen anything that was out of the ordinary she has like a sometimes they have a cart like most of people using like a hospital catering you know there's like a big plastic tray a dark plastic tray two levels and wheels and i think that's what she has but many of the departments have that and on that tray would be her or something like that i don't recall what exactly hers was like but they have a station that they bring to the scent for her to put all of her stuff and uh if the weather is cooperative and sometimes they put it under a tent if it looks like a membrane they wanted to damage the property but she has a little place she would go to and i think she has a truck where she stores it when they wrap everything goes into a truck when she takes off that's her responsibility to to uh secure the prop weapons everything in there can you actually describe the gun to me it's a cult a period cult in our emails back and forth when we were prepping the film she showed me just a couple different styles of guns this is not a big budget movie we didn't have a lot of choices you know you you she showed you three or four choices i said give me the biggest gun you've got okay and uh and so i didn't uh she showed me different guns uh by email and different knives by email uh cruder knives that were made perfect like someone fashioned the handle out of like elkhorn or things and i took a traditional knife a leather strap a handle um we went back and forth about the holster and the material and uh we just had a relatively brief conversation i i'm having made a lot of movies i know how to stress them out about the budget when she shows me something i try to make that work and so uh she showed i said just give me the big cult when we're done and then on that tuesday the 12th i came and shot that gun okay what color is it uh i believe it's a brown angle because she showed me two of the larger coats wanted a cherry colored handle and one had a brown handle and i chose the brown handle you didn't want the cherry i could show you my emails away was too shy ah okay my character is a little bit in the retirement side of his career he's a retired bank robber i'd say out in the wild west cherry might not be that well you always have people in films i mean they go to an extensive extent you wouldn't believe sometimes if they have the budget the details you go into of all the things you wear jewelry hats watches guns cars i mean there's people sit down i mean i've made a lot of films and the films that have bigger budgets you could spend a whole week going to rehearsal reading with the director the writer goes and rewrites they listen to how the dialogue sounds and then once you're done rehearsing the text with the director the producers and the writer when you're done reading they'll go make amendments like when they hear it come out of your mouth they go let's change that line the way bob says that and then they go they go then you go right to wardrobe props you go do a lot of stuff okay all right so you get back from lunch get ready she hands you the gun um was this inside or outside was at the church and was it the first rehearsal that the incident happened yeah i believe so because we talked about as we were going to lunch we're always talking about what's next okay so as we were rehearsing scenes he said now i want to do a scene where uh we've done other shots before lunch he said when we come back from lunch we'll do this and he said okay pull out show me and i was showing you what i thought was the best angle to see the glint of the gun under my coat because you want the scene to work the shot door so where are the holsters here the gun is here my coat comes around and i held my hand it looks like i was just cupping my hands like i was just resting okay and i showed him in the rehearsal so when we came back after lunch we rehearsed for the camera and i took the gun out really i'm showing him i'm going i'm going to go like this like this like this [ __ ] and turn bang it went off the first time okay so it was it was your first time ever shooting that shot that we were rehearsing for that shot okay that camera shot um and you may not if you don't know that's fine did you happen to see so obviously you guys left from the upper your upper shooting area to go have lunch or did you eat lunch up there no we always go back to the base camp for lunch okay did the armorers or did you see the armorers go down no no nor would i okay once they're gone i'm gone okay so people stay up or does everybody go down well there are many people who will forego lunch okay i think that but not many there are some who will forgo much because they have work to do someone will hold them a plate someone will they'll bring their own lunch they just many people they they make sacrifices because of their pride for their department they may sit there and say i think i need to paint that wall and touch up that wall i think i need to distress those bones they all have work to do and very often a small number of people will stay up top while we drive down from the set to the base camp the caterer is there in need but maybe a modest number of people stay up there okay all right and then i just want to clarify really i know you're drawing something all right so when you had pulled out the gun obviously you were not at the cameraman but you had identified there were two people there can you tell me who those people were my recollection is that the operator was there he's a steady cam up there okay he's a man who there's either a camera on sticks that's stationary okay there's a man who operates the city camp that moves the camera operator was there behind the camera and she was to his right and who is she that's the one i messed up photographer okay the camera director and she was right next to the cameraman she was to his right to my left and who was behind her joel and he is director of the movie okay can you recall who exactly was inside at the time of the incident or anyone else that you can okay the first a.d he's in charge of the crew the first assistant director is the man who's like the foreman of the set he's in charge of all the grips or the crew okay electric cable do you know his name dave wall the dave hall okay that's stable dave halls is always there uh uh helena joel me the operator an assistant camera person a script supervisor a woman who sits in the corner in some strategic position to take notes on all the action of the tape so you can match if one day you're doing a scene you sit there and go what is your first name samantha samantha you know it's really important that you and i uh drink drink drink uh get together and talk about that case you drank when did you she makes notes so we match every take that's called continuity that woman who's does continue she's always there watching she was in the room okay she's an older woman like in her 60s maybe with um you know that colored blonde hair maybe or a brown hair but she i forget her name but she's so there's a group of people that are always there for every shot even if you're in a kind of a cramped interior this set of this church is not large so then the rest of the crew is outside in that side was a limited number of people maybe eight i don't remember [Applause] camera assistant camera cinematographer director first a d script okay so not too many very few do you think that any part of this incident that occurred was intentional well i can only say this which is to me to place a bullet and position a bullet that is a live round to make sure that that bullet is in the chamber if i were to squeeze the trigger in a rehearsal that that bullet came out someone has to have extraordinary access to that weaponry to do that i can't imagine somebody walked around with a round it was a 45 caliber round so you see other people on the set were speculating that it was a 45 caliber realm she'd be dead it would have blown a big hole in her and so we're wondering was the projectile that went into some foreign material stuck and it was an accident with a flash round and something came out of the barrel they didn't check they always check but but to your experience with these armors in my life ever okay i've never heard of a projectile coming out of a prop gun that went through a person's body and regardless of her being a smaller woman the the bullet went in here i'm told went in here came out here her shoulder or whatever and went into his body and very i've never heard of that in my life i don't know any projectile with a gun in a flash prop gun that could accomplish that now if somebody put a live round in there accidentally see a very important question for hannah is do have you ever co-mingled live rounds with theatrical rounds in your kit because they're forbidden to do that according to the union rules and the safety rules for all the unions you're not allowed to do that because of the fear of what happened that you call mingle so whether someone accidentally and i can't even imagine deliberately placed a live round in that gun uh i've never heard that in my life and i don't know anything about what happened but all i know is when i see the other thing about this is in a live round you'd have a recoil usually when i shot that gun and it went off i didn't shoot it when it went off um i didn't intend for it to to do for what happened to happen when that happens is you know i've always told but because i'm not a gun person i don't have a gun they've always told me they asked me to simulate the recoil when i shoot the culp which is a big gun 45 caliber bullet they always teach me when we should be go action i go get back here boom and then let me take my hand and go boom and have the kick because there's no kick in the flash round okay and when i this time i don't recall there being any kick either that's important okay are you ex i know you said you don't own a gun but are you experienced with shooting guns only as much as actors have to be experienced okay which is normally not real bullets if you do a movie safety with weapons is as primary you go off with people you can walk with all members people to ranges i've gone to ranges in arizona where we shot a lot of guns in the movie many years ago and you go to a range and you shoot for a few hours and they teach you how to shoot shotguns walther different you know little small guns james bond guns big guns uzis machine guns whatever you're using they make you go and rehearse for hours one day okay yeah well they're very safety conscious as they have been here they've been very safety conscious here throughout that's what puzzle's been well and that's like yeah and i guess that's more like the question that i'm trying to get out is you do you think someone would deliberately do this i can't imagine who would okay that people have said you know that six people got fired from the crew yesterday because they said that the the union i don't want to get into a long diatribe about this but the union the international association of theatrical stage employees ayatsi is their name ayatse is the union that controls all the actors the director's guild controls the director or the screen actors but all of the crew are controlled by a contract in which those people voted to go on strike against the major studios the major networks the major streaming services but not the independent film community in fact the ayatsi rep for the new mexico contract because every state has different contracts was instructed by his bosses in l.a he said don't go on strike the strike is against the majors not against the indie people and in the indie film there's six different tiers i believe in terms of the contract how much they're paid okay a bunch of people on the set walked off anyway even though they were told not to to strike they struck and they left and that was yesterday that was yesterday that was their last day and the question becomes i mean somebody said what did would one of them do i don't i don't even know i have no idea i have no idea well and it was because that was mentioned to me is that it sounded like it was most of the camera crew that walked offset yes um yesterday and quit and maybe they got fired because they walked off um so the other thing is that the two major people like you said the director um those are the ones who got hurt so with the camera crew and then quitting and then your director getting injured as well as um helena you don't think there's anybody that had any anger towards them or anything that wouldn't want i don't know the details i know that one guy whose name i'm forgetting he was a very heavyset guy he was a very lovely to me he walked up to me and he said thank you for the things you posted on social media in support of the ayatse strike and he said i'd like to talk to you privately because he said because i've got some of my guys sleeping in their car many of the crew here for the shooting in albuquerque and santa fe are albuquerque based they live there so the drive time is kind of a common knowledge in the business that the uh the unions in new mexico signed very bad deals in order to attract a movie shooting here they wanted to grow the the crew uh base here so they signed the deal that wasn't a good deal and they gave them a 60 mile commute radius so that means if you live within 60 miles of the set you come to work and you don't get paid any that you have to drive home they don't hotel you they don't know in new york it's 30 miles they have to put you up in a hotel and give you gas money and there's a whole other complicated contract in the in the more um expensive markets here this guy would tell you he told me he goes my guys are sleeping in their car i went to the a.d and the producers and i asked him what's up with that he said they knew what the contract was we signed the iot contract new mexico and then in the middle of shooting they decided they wanted to rewrite their deal they said put us up in hotels now if you put the camera crew up at a hotel all the other crafts are gonna ask you to put them in a hotel but my point is that if i'm standing there in a rehearsal i'm thinking to myself could someone actually believe that in the rehearsal i would actually aim the gun and hit those two people that's far-fetched or do they want just somebody to get hit or i keep telling us that more likely was it an accident whether it was a large quarter load is makes noise but it's kind of a puff compared but a half load could shoot a projectile if something was stuck in the barrel like i said the thing that is i think going to answer all your questions is what's in joel's shoulder is it a rock or is it a bullet uh i could actually show that to you what what was in his shoulder did they take it out so you've been on set for so many years like you said you have you ever seen you you said you never seen anything come out before i've never seen no i've never seen a projectile come out right so but do you know what the bullets look like that have looked something like this if anything did ever come out of something okay okay so okay let's backtrack a little bit oh that's a bullet as i suspected somebody put a live round in the gun if that's a bullet that was pulled out of his shoulder then someone loaded a live round into the gun so now let me ask you did you see the rounds that were in the gun no have you seen throughout the whole time on set have you seen what they look like i've watched her load and reload the gun many times many times have you seen the bullets himself meaning yes meaning you see um sometimes the head is the casing and the head is a pinched it almost looks like a dumpling it's closed at the top there is no peace and you put the cosmetic round in when you know you're going to see if i hold the if i say to you what is your first step again alex if i see you alex don't you move a muscle darling on the blow the camera shoots me you want to see the material in the cylinder the cosmetic clay-based non-bullet round so can you describe to me what those based rounds look like they look like a bullet what colors they're great they look exactly like a little brass head and a brass base packed with something i'm assuming and the uh and then the uh the head to look like so cosmetically you see that in the cylinder the other rounds you shoot have a it's the it's the basement the pin this comes up and it's around like this and if you look at the top if you're looking down at the bullet with it with the uh not the pin down here at the top of it if you look at that it's folded in like almost like yeah it's like a yeah like a dump like a pinch type exactly it's like a folded up thing and the char and all that says boom if i showed you a couple rounds would you be able to tell me if they're the ones that look like they were on set probably if i think i could probably tell you which were the rounds that were put in cosmetic okay and which will go down to other flash records all right can we just assume because i'm very upset right now i know about these things so please take don't forget my rare

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