going on for 22 years. The evidence is clear that you were involved. There is no other theory to this case. >> Some criminals managed to hide their crimes for decades. But what happens when a single piece of evidence reopens the case and finally exposes the truth? >> Back around 1998. Okay. There was a crime that was committed in a ski. Okay. Your name has been brought up in that. >> No, I don't recall things that happened back in 98 with this guy or whatever. I can't recall. >> These were the moments when officers captured this suspect 20 years later. We begin with the case of a 26-year-old investigation that took an unexpected turn after new DNA evidence pointed detectives toward a man. >> What Sergeant Raz was asking you? Um, so back around 1998, okay, there was a crime that was committed in a new account. >> I need an alibi cuz if I did the crime, guess what? 1,000% I did the crime. >> We have happened in the parking lot of Windixie. >> Almost definitely didn't. On January 24th, 2024, police in Florida reopened a case that had gone cold for more than 26 years. After advances in technology, the forensic department uncovered DNA evidence in the case of taxi driver Steven Davis. But the investigation would lead to a suspect law enforcement already knew about Donald. >> Confirm your birthday for me real quick. >> 210. Okay. >> So, we're from Scy County, Florida. Where you from? Uh we're just looking into a couple couple cases and I just had a couple questions for you. [clears throat] Okay. >> Um do you remember back around 1998 where you were living at the time? >> Um 918 M Street famous >> North M. Do you know who you were living with? >> Bren Max famous. >> Okay. What about Miss Jackson? Katana Jackson. >> That's the mother of my kids. >> Okay. Were you living with her around that time? >> I don't want to say necessarily living with them. >> You weren't living with her. Just kind of hanging out. I mean, that's my baby mama. We go over there from time to time. >> Okay. Do you know did y'all have kids back then together? >> I'm not really sure. I'm trying to figure out that my first daughter was born in 2000. >> Okay. So, you didn't quit. Okay. Um, where were you working back in 1998? >> Uh, National Lenon maybe. I think the Navy base at the same time. >> What did you do at the Navy base? >> Um, I was a cook at the bridge and uh working in the southern. >> Okay. >> Okay. Can I ask a question? >> Yeah. I'm asking a lot of questions. What's going on? >> Yeah. Yeah. Go go go ahead and reading and then we'll we'll answer your question. >> Read you these obviously not free to go because you're in prison, right? So, we just have to read you these. Not meaning you're being charged at the moment or anything like that. Just cuz you're not free to leave. We have to read you right away. What's going on? >> I'm just saying it's you're not under arrest. You're in prison, but you're not under arrest. So, we have to read these to you. Okay. >> You want to talk to us? >> I don't even know what's going on. Can't talk to you. Well, and you understand that you can uh you can stop stop talking at any time. That's that's the main point. Yeah. >> Ju just because you said you want to talk to us now doesn't mean in 5 minutes you can say I don't want to talk more. Right. >> Look my thing is when I first came into the office I wish you would have asked me this question before I even ask any question. At this point, the suspect identified as Donald Holmes II grew uneasy as investigators hinted that an old case could be linked to him and his response was about to catch the officer's attention. >> We haven't asked you questions about the case yet. >> What is the case? >> That's why we read you this before we started in on the questions. >> Those were just getting a couple little That's audio video recorded camera right there. >> Okay. Audio and video rule stuff. >> Yeah. Ju just to make sure you know you can't say that we rubbed you out. You can't say you put your hands on us or anything like that. >> Just just for everybody instruction. All right. >> Do I have the right to feel nervous like that? >> Hell yeah. >> Yeah. Cuz I'm like I don't understand crazy. >> There's a procedure, you know, obviously we got to go through with all this stuff. Okay. You're going to get your answers here during this interview, but we got to go through some of this stuff before procedural stuff before we get into that. You understand that? >> So, yes, I absolutely understand being nervous. Okay. Um, even if nothing's going on, I mean, you're sitting I mean, I've never been in their shoes. I've never been, you know, shackled, you know, in an interview room, you know, not even an interview room. This is basically a broom closet, you know, with two investigators talk to you. So, absolutely, you have a right to be nervous. All right. Um, so what Sergeant Rasmusen was asking you, uh, so back around 1998, okay, there was a crime that was committed in Escambia County. Okay, your name has been brought up in that. So we want you to be able to clear any kind of, you know, accusations and doubts or anything like that. So that that's why he's asking you where you work and trying to make up an alibi for you. You know, you said >> I don't need an alibi cuz if I did the crime, guess what? 1,000% I meant that I did the crime and I do time for it. You know what I'm saying? >> So man, >> and I I appreciate I'm the same way. I ain't going to [ __ ] I ain't going to lie to you. I ain't going to try and play any tricks on you. Okay. >> Rather than confronting Donald with everything at once, detectives started by revealing only part of the evidence, hoping to get a reaction from him. So 1998 you were working at uh you said uh the Navy base uh dating Katana, >> right? Staying with her at Warrington Village off and off. But uh like I said, man, we're not here to bust your balls or with you or anything like that. Um but uh but there's that wind dipsy right there. You know what I'm talking about right there by Warrington Village. court. That's the only other other than >> Did you ever frequent there? >> Uh sometime from time to time. >> Okay. >> Um so, um I'll let you tell you know more about all that than I do. So, >> steal anything or >> No, it's not about stealing or anything. Um so, back this was around August 1998. Um if you can try and think back, I know it was a long time ago. >> 26 years. >> Yeah. [music] So, we're uh you and Katana supposedly got into an argument and you left going to the Wind Dixie. I guess you had to work that day or were supposed to be working that day at the galley. Kind of remember that time frame? >> I don't recall. >> Okay. Well, we have um happened in the parking lot of that Wind Dixie. >> Most definitely. Okay. Well, we're talking to people. You know, some people gave your name up as somebody that frequent Ellen Dixie. Okay. That's why we're here. Not saying you did it. We're saying you frequently Dixie and we're trying to put pieces together. Okay. You have a couple trespasses from Wind Dixie. You and Katana like got in a fight in Windixie. Y'all got trespassed [music] not too long before this incident happened from there. you were seen going back there, calling cabs from there, things like that. Okay. Would you remember none of that's against the law? No. >> Donald insisted he hadn't been in the area that night. With the evidence piling up, investigators were about to ask a question that would test his composure. >> I'm just giving you that we have you in the area. We were trying to, you know, refresh your memory of you being at Windendix. >> No, I don't recall. >> Okay. Uh, and and like you know, like I said, you know, we talked he talked to Katana and I read some of his notes, you know, u you know, she said she don't doesn't ever remember you carrying a gun or or anything like that back then. >> I'm not a gun. I'm I'm a working man. I'm working at National Landing and I'm working at the Navy Bay. >> Did you ever own a gun for protection or anything back then? >> No, I'm a working man. >> Well, I mean, I'm a working man, too, but I still have multiple guns to protect myself and my family. Okay. Um, did you ever hang out with around anybody that carried guns frequently that you can recall? >> Well, I'm not going to lie. I seen people with guns before, but I haven't been around nobody with guns. I'm not that type of person. >> Okay. Um, you ever anybody ever hang around talk about, you know, possibly somebody around that time period? >> People talking about people take these two fingers and stick them inside my ears and make them touch. >> Okay. When this type of stuff happen, everybody who did the Gu. >> Well, how long you been in here now? >> I've been in this prison system. I got out the feds in 2011. I caught at least 20 years in 2012. >> Okay. So, you got out of fed prison in 2011? >> Yes, sir. >> How long were you in there? >> Uh, I want to say I want I'm hoping that it's not around this time. I'm not even sure when I went to the prison, but I got out in 2011. >> Okay. >> 93 month. 93 months or so. >> About 8 years. So about 2003 >> probably. So >> okay. And then so you got out in 2011. >> Yes sir. >> And then when when you say you you >> 2012 I called these 20 years later. >> So >> yeah I didn't have no >> when you switching to get out of here. >> 2029 is my ear. Curtis was my latest. >> Okay. That's what 85%. >> Yes sir. As part of their strategy, investigators showed Donald a photograph of the victim and asked if he recognized him from that night. Rather than clearing up their doubts, Donald's response only made the case more suspicious. >> Let me ask you if you recognize this picture. Okay. You recognize this man at all? >> No, sir. >> No. Okay. >> He He was He was the taxi cab driver. He he frequent in the area back where you live back then. He drove a yellow taxi cab. >> I never seen his goddamn life. I wouldn't say no. I never told him drugs. Okay. His name was uh Stephen Davis. The name ring a bell at all? >> Man, I didn't heard like when people in my city get heard of somebody like that, everybody knows it. >> Okay. >> You know what I'm saying? So that name is familiar, but it's not like familiar. I can say, "Well, I know this guy this that and the third." They just like Little Ricky and D man just like people in the city. You just watch out for somebody that's end up getting hurt. Don't ring a bell like >> the name Steven Davis. >> Okay. Okay. I was going to say anything. He was a old I think he was >> old fat white guy. >> Yeah, >> that ain't somebody >> I want to say he was in his 60s. >> What? Why did they >> That's what we're trying to piece together. So he's obviously was our guy that got >> and we're trying to piece together why he got Okay. [music] And what we've got so far is he was in that vendix in an old retired yellow cab. >> Mhm. and get we we've got couple pictures here. I want to see if >> the car recognizes the car. >> You recognize this car at all. >> Old yellow cab. You recognize the one Dixie though, right? On Boulevard. >> I can't tell the look that they built in. >> Well, you were living were hanging out with Katana across the street from it back then. in that in that time frame is what I'm saying. There's another pictures of the car. >> Yeah, I don't recognize that car godfather. >> Okay, fair enough. Uh, >> at least pictures 26 years old. >> It's didn't have the best quality cameras back then. >> Donald maintained that he didn't know Steven, but investigators were about to show him something that would make the similarities impossible to ignore. >> Do you uh you happen to remember what kind of gun it was back then? The one you're in for now? >> It was a 22. That's what they said in the federal court. I thought it was a 25. >> Okay. Was it a like a revolver or like a semi-auto? >> It had like a little stick thing that you put in the bottom of it. >> It had a magazine on the bottom. >> Okay. >> I remember the guy at the the LDL taking it out in the courtroom showing that it was operational. [music] And I'll never forget that moment. >> And that was for Fed or was that for this case? >> They said for the Fed in this case. I caught the same charge for the Fed and this case. Oh, you got charged federally and state. Okay. >> Are your sentences concurrent? >> Uh, yeah. The 160 something month that I took the PS for last run concurrent with the 240 that I had in this. >> Okay. So, I'm going to show you two more pictures. I want to see if this rings a bell at all. >> Okay. The one of these ring a bell? This is Mr. Davis. >> Hope so. >> No. Did they beat him up? >> No. He got multiple times. in the back. >> No sir. >> Didn't even have enough to face the man on this right through the back. No, I mean obviously you ain't seen that. Do you you want But what I'm getting at is were you at that and just let me finish because I know what you're going to say. You going to say no. But were you at that when Dixie that morning waiting on a cab or something and saw this happen? You run out there to help the guy or anything? Listen, if something like that ever happened, man, I'm assessor to whatever going on. It be by her light, by law to let somebody know something. I do. >> So, you never saw him get saw any of that go down? >> Not ever call, sir. Just being honest with you. >> Okay. I don't call nobody being >> Okay. So, let me ask you this real quick. Have you ever seen anybody do I ain't going to ask you specifics. Have you ever seen somebody that's been >> Of course. >> Okay. But that was like back in the days, like your younger days and all that or >> TV. >> TV. Well, I'm talking about in person. I'm talking about in person. >> Without realizing it, Donald's answers began to contradict his own account, giving investigators the first crucial lead toward new evidence. >> Back around 1998, you went out of town. U Katana said you went somewhere. She didn't know where. Do you remember? It said you were gone for about a month. Do you remember where you could have went around that time? It would have been around Christmas of 98 or January 99. >> Records should be able to tell you that playing records should be able to tell you that not if you drove >> or rode with somebody. You get what I'm saying? >> You know anybody that lives, you know, like Virginia or North Carolina, South Carolina, anywhere up there? this for y'all fellas know that I went federal in Virginia [music] but I don't think I >> actually I didn't know I was in >> I don't remember Virginia I knew you got arrested for some dope I didn't know that was the federal case >> it was in Virginia >> okay when do you think you went to Virginia around that time do you remember >> I don't think it was around that time >> it wasn't around I don't recall I just know for a fact that I have never been that far out of town in like 98 or something like that job like I say how can I go out of town [clears throat] with working jobs what year were you born I was born in 1980. >> Okay. So, you would have been like 18. >> Yes, sir. >> You said you didn't have a car of any kind. >> Let's see. Do you did you have any uh relatives that lived over near Marino Porch back then? >> My father. >> Your father. So, let me ask you one more question with this Mr. Davis. You said you're never at Wendy. You don't know anything about that case or or remember seeing the scene, right? >> Okay. Is there any particular reason that your fingerprint would be in Mr. Davis's on his vehicle? >> No, shouldn't be. I don't know. >> There shouldn't be. >> No. >> Okay. >> Forensic investigators made a crucial discovery of Donald's fingerprints in the crime scene, but when investigators pressed him, Donald's response was unexpected. >> Well, there's no no other thing. It's not ringing a bell that that scene happening or anything like that. >> No. Especially what you're saying, my fingerprint being on this guy. >> Mhm. being in this guy. That's a lot. >> Okay. Well, I I I can tell you it's not a lie. >> Yeah. >> And and here's the thing. I don't I don't know anything. I'm going to be blunt and honest with you from the get-go. Okay. Um maybe not from the get from here. All right. Sergeant Brad Mu is assigned to the cold case unit. Okay. This county sheriff's office. I'm assigned to the unit. Okay. This is a case they've been working Well, obviously since 1998. Okay. Um, maybe not him particularly because he'd have been about 8 years old back then >> and I'd have been like 16. But, uh, you know, I don't know much about this case. I don't know the ins and outs, the details, any of that. I didn't know about this case until like a week ago when they came to me and was like, "Hey, can you go with him to go talk to this guy?" I was like, "Yeah, sure. No problem." So, I can tell you put a value on me. >> We're trying to figure out what's going on. >> We're trying to You got to remember I took over this case in early December. He got into it last week. >> Wow. >> There's been 25 other investigators that have gone through this case file and we're trying to look at it from our side of it and go through all the steps and your name was been in this file, but nobody's ever talked to you. >> I don't. So that's why we're here talking to you trying to get your side of what could have happened or to explain any of this. >> I don't understand what's going on. Never seen this guy heard this guy. Like I was saying that my fingerprint is in this guy. >> Specifically your pinky print. >> At this point, Donald abandoned his original version of events. And the more investigators pressed for answers, the more his story seemed to slip away. >> It's not a lie. I'm not saying that. I'm not saying there's not some other reason that it's there. That's why I asked you if you've ever seen the cab. If you've never seen this guy, any of that, I'm not trying to put a body on. I'm not trying to accuse you of doing nothing, anything like that. I'm trying to find a reason that your pinky print is there. Okay? >> I can't recall or give you a reason. If you saying that my fingerprint is, but I'm telling you f my pingprint should be nowhere near a cab, man, driver, blood, nothing like that. >> And and that's why I asked you, did you go and help? Did maybe you see this happen and you went to help? I don't recall any of that right there. Occurren. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Well, that's like I said, you're you had never been interviewed, so we wanted to come down and let you give your side or try to explain some of the things we're finding from your own words instead of, you know, this person said this or this person said this. We're going to come to you and give you the opportunity to give your side of the story. >> Wow. >> Okay. Whatever that may be. and to explain some of this stuff away, you know? I mean, >> or I mean, this is your the floor is yours. This is for you to say whatever you need to or whatever you want to, you know? I mean, at this point, we don't know, you know. All all we can say is there's a body in your pinky print. That doesn't mean your pinky prints left then. It might have been left before, you know. So, but it's his >> Oh, seriously. >> 100%. >> Yeah. Yeah. And like I told you from the beginning, I ain't going to [ __ ] I ain't going to lie to you and I haven't. Nor will I cuz that's not how I do business. Cuz I'm going to tell you this. In 10 years when you get out and you come back to Escambia County and something happens, somebody gets somebody gets robbed or whatever and you know some information, you're gonna say or god forbid and I don't wish this on you or anybody else, something happened to one of your kids and you get some information. >> Donald remained remarkably calm, insisting he could never have committed such a crime. Yet with every answer he gave, the truth was getting even further away. One thing I got to tell you, man, I ain't doing no s. You know what I'm saying? >> I did some crazy people. No, I ain't into that. >> Not nobody for nobody. >> Did you ever hang out with anybody that was doing robberies around that time? >> I mean, >> knocking off cab drivers or anything like that. >> I can't say necessarily say that. >> Okay. >> But, you know, I just I want to lay it all out there, you know, and we don't know why this guy is We don't know if it was a robbery. We don't know if he had some kind of beef with somebody. You know, obviously he's 26 years old at this point. >> Um, you know, >> an argument that got out of hand. >> We don't we don't know. I'm going to be honest with y'all. Y'all asking me questions as if I really know the answer to these questions [clears throat] and how you direct the question. >> We don't know them either. That's why. >> Listen, how you saying it though? Are we trying to find was it a robbery? A guy a hand? Is it some beef or something? But you're asking questions is in the city man. Well, no. I'm not insinuating anything. I don't know. >> I don't know the reason. Okay. For all I know, the guy pulled the gun on whoever, >> you know, for whatever reason, they took the gun selfense. I don't know. Okay. Hey, listen. I'm going be honest with y'all. I'm sitting here talking to y'all on video this that and the third and I asked for no lawyer or nothing. whatever then just to let you know that hey I don't got nothing to hide in this situation but at the same time I don't want to mess around and continue to talk to y'all and then the story gets spent around or something to not be in a position God forgive me for cussing know what I'm saying about something that I know nothing about said I used to be with back in the days me >> know I'm saying things that happened back in 98 with this guy or whatever I can't recall I'm being honest with you >> Donald portrayed himself as the victim of the accusations yet every time investigators questioned why his fingerprints were found at the scene. The more investigators pressed, the more it seemed Donald wasn't simply defending himself, he was playing for time. >> So, I don't want to mess around and put myself in a position where I'm looking at a goddamn body after doing 20 years. >> I respect that. You know what I'm saying? And I'm not trying to do no life sentence behind nobody behind. I don't know what God perussion. >> I understand. Yeah. And I understand that. Okay. >> Trying to be helpless. I possibly can. >> Yeah. >> But as far as me telling on somebody who probably hear that, it's out too. I'm not I'm not here telling on nobody. >> Well, and I I respect that. Understand my family's from Montlair Mayfair, too. Trust me, I I grew up around there. The same problem we're having is explaining how your fingerprint could have got in his on the car. >> And I'm trying to explain to you that's virtually. >> Nobody else has your fingerprints except you. >> And I'm trying to tell you that's virtually impossible for my fingerprint to be in some into that car. >> Okay. Well, we have your fingerprint in the car, so how can we explain it? >> I haven't seen the fingerprint. >> Well, I don't have the fingerprint with me. It's in evidence, obviously. >> But it's it's been it's been run through FDLE and through the FBI database, and it is matched to your fingerprint, >> right? I'm going to say this right because I don't know what y'all talking about as it relates to this right here. I'm not trying to be crash or be about it. We talking about a man being I'm not I'm a child of God. You know what I'm saying? At this time being I just want to know like where do we go from here? If you going to charge me with charity but I ain't nobody I'm in prison for a strong robbery or whatever they charge me with and if [clears throat] I did anything wrong I can tell man I did that what it is. Strike it up. Help me out. >> You're not under arrest. >> Yeah. >> You're not you're not under like we're we're we're trying to figure out what's going on. I'm trying to I'm telling you a thousand times I don't know what's going on as it relates to that situation. >> Despite repeated attempts to pressure him, Donald remained calm. But when investigators made one final attempt to break through, his response was not what they expected. >> Would you be going to take a polygraph test, a lie detector test on this? >> Yes, sir. >> Okay. >> Okay. I appreciate it. >> So, um I don't have any more questions about Do you have any questions for us? Anything you want to say? >> No. If y'all got any followups or anything, I'm more than happy to ask. I don't need no lawyer or anything like that because in my spirit, in my heart, I know I'm innocent. You know what I'm saying? >> I thought I was going to come here and say some some other stuff like another like, "Oh man, call me closes. You don't have no warrants. You don't have none of that. We are just here to talk to you. >> Like I said, >> I picked up a binder of stuff and I sat there for two weeks looking over everything and I realized Katana had never been interviewed and you had never been interviewed. Have any questions for us? >> You got any questions for me? Let me know. You leave me a card or something like that. I appreciate it. >> Well, uh, we'll give it to him so he can he can give it yourself and get out of the box. >> I don't Yeah, I don't know the process. You know, we don't work in prisons or any of that. >> Would you write what I was talking to about on the back of this? and I talk to my family long time be able to give some insight and y'all name and stuff. >> If you have any questions, anything for me, you know, man. >> Okay. I appreciate it, man. >> Appreciate you. Look me up. >> In the end, Donald Holmes was found guilty of slaughter with a firearm. Moving to the next case, a series of crimes against women would eventually lead detectives to a man they never imagined had remained hidden for decades. He was found. She found in Newark. There's no way that any of your DNA would be on her cuz you've never seen her. >> Oh, wait. Would you find it odd that the reason that we keep going back to Carmen because he survived because these two the exact same thing? >> On April 7th, 2022, Ohio investigators reopened a case from the '90s after advances in genetic genealogy gave them a new lead where DNA evidence from one of the victims had revealed a genetic connection that investigators could trace decades after the attacks. The breakthrough led detectives to a man who had no idea what was waiting for him. >> Yeah. >> Ready? >> Yeah. Need any help? >> No. Yeah. So, what's up? Okay. What a man. So, this is like this is a multiple thing of cases that I've been tasked with. So, I'm kind of I'm kind of just sorting through all of it. And it's told you that's why we couldn't do the second place. So, did I cuz I didn't want to like drag all that stuff out with me. >> Mhm. >> And we'll get you back home as soon as I get finished. Ain't no big deal. All right. So, if you don't mind, Robert, can I get just some information from you? >> Okay. >> And uh Sorry. Can I say something? >> Yeah. >> First of all, we appreciate you coming down. You're here voluntarily. You're not under you're not kind of custody. Nothing. So, so living in Columbus, at what years, what years did you drive a truck around here? Just out of curiosity. >> 95 96 is all I can remember. >> Okay. Everything's been avault since I got locked up in uh I think it was 93. >> What' you get locked up for? >> Uh robbery. >> Okay. Is that the only time you've ever been in trouble? >> Uh no, that's the only time I >> got Hey, I time you rarely got caught. I got you. You went to prison. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. You uh that was in 93. How long did you do? >> Uh I didn't get parrolled until 2000 2001. >> Okay. So So you were in >> in and out of parole. >> Okay. So you So you violated a couple times, go back here and there. Okay. So 93 and then it was finally finished in you said what? 2001. So was it over? >> Mhm. >> Finally. Okay. I got no problem. When did you get out of prison the first time? Like when did you actually get out? >> I have no idea. I'm going say like, well, y'all going to look all that up. >> The man sitting in the interrogation room was 66-year-old Robert Edwards, whose criminal record included robbery and possession of illegal substance offenses. Detectives initially framed the interview as a routine review of his past charges, leading Robert to believe he wasn't the focus of a much larger investigation >> during like he seemed like a super cool dude. Um, were were you addicted to anything? >> Yeah. >> Okay. All right. That's where we go. That's where we go. So, um, >> I've been clean since 2011. >> Congrat 2011. >> Nice. >> Clean since November >> 2011. >> Um, prior to that, like, uh, do you remember how old you were when you started using? Like what year maybe? Uh, early 80s. So, early 80s. What was your choice? Anything else? Nope. No. Um, no. At the time or anything like that? No. >> I quit 1980 when my son was born. >> Okay. Well, they came and got me. So, they must it must have had something to do with something that I know about someone did or whatever you >> Yeah. >> Well, he said something old. So I know if it didn't happen there at the last what from 93 to now I ain't worried about it here and I think jail till 2001 my daughter told me y'all had the right person to visit my daughter. Oh your daughter what you say right? Robert Edwards. Yeah, boy. There's a lot. I got three so-called sons [clears throat] with that name. I have met I'm going say at least 20 people in prison with that name. >> Detectives initially questioned Robert about an arrest from years earlier. Moments later, they slid a photograph across the table revealing the true purpose of the interrogation. You know, never seen up before my life. Okay. All right. Her name is Carmen. Did Did you Did you ever get arrested by CPD? >> CPD? >> Like the Columbus Division of Police? >> Yeah. >> Uh over off of like what was it? Brighton Brighton Road area. >> Oh yeah. >> Can you can you tell me about that? I >> sure can. All right. It started early that morning. The morning, well, the morning before that, Maze, Elvin, and her buddy, we all take off and go uh go drinking. We started like say like 9:00 in the morning. Started off on Avenue and then all went all the way across Columbus to the uh short all the way back out west and all the way back there. I dropped her off. No, I dropped all of them off as to uh why I was supposed to be working. But anyway, when they got in the car, she got up in the front seat with me. Now, I can't remember her little person, but the girl put her uh purse in the backseat of my car. And uh Elvin and uh the other girl was in the back seat and other uh me [music] if that's her was in the front seat. We party all day. No just like the kids and it was on a ch we drive off. I drove off after I dropped everybody off dropped tires off and everybody took off and went their way. I I went all the way out to Urban Crush and uh watched the car that I was driving and I forgot. Look, while I was cleaning the car, I found the person in the back seat. So, I put the back uh the car. >> Robert's reaction came as no surprise. He insisted he had never seen the woman before. But with the 1991 attack on Carmen Skipper now reopened, detectives wanted answers. More importantly, they needed to know whether the evidence pointed to Robert in this case as well. >> I found him when I was playing the car. Okay. And that's when the police pulled me up. Was it your car? It was >> No, was one of the cars. >> Okay. Now, what you work at? >> It was right where they picked me up at. I don't know the name of it. I was working for uh Jones and uh Ralph and I was helping clean cars like bank mode, stuff like that. All right. and they had a few cars and stuff at night. But anyway, I was bringing a car back the next morning and well early in the morning and they said that uh the girl told him that I had and so all you did was kiss her. She couldn't ar now uh we was all in the shop but when they come and they came out when they came out of that shop I mean when I first pulled up they bring out knives and hatchets and all kind of stuff. I don't even know where that stuff came from. Who was >> the police? I'm sitting there watching me. When they sit, man, me in the uh back seat of the car. I'm watch them bringing all this stuff out. I didn't know where all of this stuff come from. Okay. When I drove up to the shop, there was uh police pulled me over and said that I had all this stuff. I don't even know what they were talking about. You never said, "Well, you know what? I'm sitting up here thinking we might now I don't know. I ain't responsible. >> Okay. >> And I'm stupid though. No. But I I don't know. I really honestly don't know. >> So So was that night was that the first time you met her? >> Yes. >> You'd never met her before? >> No. >> Was she like was she or anything like that that you know? >> I have no idea. >> Okay. Do you remember where you picked her up at? uh on road coming down road. >> But Carmen wasn't the only victim. That same year, another woman had been attacked in a nearly identical manner. This time, there was no survivor. Her name was Alma Lake, and her case would completely change the direction of the investigation involving Robert. >> Yeah, I don't think so. >> This lady here, have you ever met her before? Never seen her before. Okay. You sure? >> Yeah. I remember. >> Never seen it before. >> Did you ever have any relationship with her? >> No. Do you know what she did? No, I don't. >> No. Girlfriend, ex-girlfriend? >> No. My ex-wife? >> No. No. >> No. She was your what's your big man picked up? >> I will remember that. No. That [clears throat] >> Okay. What? Okay. I don't remember. Okay. Okay. >> I know damn well. I don't know. I didn't know that one. Not very these aren't exactly the best photographs of people at their best as you know like I have I have those photos as well. Um you do not know her. >> No, I do not know her in no shape or form. >> No shape or form. girlfriend, ex-wife, wife, no relationship before lady from the night you may have picked. >> No. >> Okay. >> I don't remember. >> He said he didn't. >> But you don't pick lady. You never did you ever you ever like pick up? >> No. I don't like that. >> No. >> Okay. >> No. No. Okay. You didn't mess with them? >> No. >> Okay. All right. How about this lady here? Never seen her before. Matter of fact, she look like the girl down the hallway from me. Okay. Lighting her up. >> No, that's I mean that's not a picture like that's that's a picture that we got. Computer [clears throat] generated picture. >> Okay. >> All right. So, let's circle back. >> Robert firmly denied ever knowing Elma, but when detectives turned to Carmen's allegations, his answers became inconsistent, revealing cracks in the story he had been trying to maintain. So, you know Carmen? >> I think I know. I don't know for sure. You You know Carmen? >> Okay. >> Carmen alleged a lot of violent things that happened to her. Okay. >> No, no, no. You did. Hey, dude. We're out. We are outside of like statute limitations on this. There's there's there's nothing that can be done with this one at all. And that's why I want that but like so she alle she alleged a lot of violent things that happened to her that night. So, if if it'll help refresh your memory, that that lady, the girl that you picked up, whatever, she alleged that you tried to manage about that. I told you that uh we went over to the short north. >> Yeah. And uh we did and [clears throat] some of it start to come back now. >> Okay. But uh pretty specific. Yeah. >> Yeah. So do you recall that? It's that >> I remember it was all three of the uh kitty cat and did the uh angels and it okay. Do you remember all three of hill >> with her? With her. >> Oh, okay. >> So, you did. >> So, so can I ask you where that happened at? >> All I can see is up in the short at this uh I can't even tell you what building it was in. I say it's like right off of there. >> The similarities continued to grow as detectives revisited the details of Alma's case until one detail about Robert's past caught their attention. All right. Let's circle back to circle back here. Let's circle back to her. You'll never know her. Okay. So, you you you lived in, correct? >> Yes. >> Okay. So, she was found in Irving. >> Olive and Craig. >> Olive and Craig. in Urban Crest. >> Oh, what? >> Oh, Olive Street and Craig Street and and Urban Crest. You found an intersection there. >> Okay. Does that bring any back anything? >> Open Hollow or what they call uh >> Urban Crest. >> Urban Hollow. >> Yeah. That's where I live. And >> Okay. >> Out there, but there was no body over in Urban Crest. >> No. Okay. Well, she so she was found she was found Yeah. She was found deceased. >> Yeah. >> And the reason is she's not. >> So the question I have for you is this and this is just you know we're trying to figure this all out. [music] If you don't know her >> Yeah, I don't. >> And you had never seen her before. >> And she was found at her crest. to explain to me how her your DNA was found her. Like I said out there and but you told us that you you didn't pick up in Columbus. I said wait I said I lived in Urban and I met out in urban crest. Now, this is before that that well before I knew about that kind of stuff. And yeah, I sat there and uh paid 10 or $15 to help a person out. You know, I did. >> For many years, Robert worked as a long haul truck driver, a detail that initially seemed unrelated to the investigation. But detectives soon uncovered another similar case. This time, the victim was Michelle Dawson Pass. As investigators retraced Robert's driving routes over the years, they discovered that one of them passed through the area where Michelle's body had been found. But one piece of evidence became impossible for investigators to overlook. >> So this girl here I know I don't know right there. >> No way. >> So so that so that's Michelle Doulson and um she was found she was found in Newark. She was found, matter of fact to be exact, she was found 1470 James Road in Grandville, Ohio, which is in Newark. Um, here here I guarantee you probably when all this I was out down south cuz I was a safety person for LPW. I don't know nothing about this. There's no way that any of your DNA would be on her cuz you never seen her. >> I don't remember saying that. I don't say that. I don't remember seeing. >> All right. Okay. And but you said November. I know from the spring all up until like the holidays of Christmas. I was in down south a safety person for MPW. Okay. So So you're saying you wouldn't have been in the state till after Christmas? >> Yeah. Well, right before Christmas. All right. >> Cuz you said November. I know I wasn't on Thanksgiving. [music] >> Okay. So there's no way you could know her from >> No way. You know her. Nobody know from Columbus. >> I don't know her out there, son. I don't remember. Let me put that this way. Y'all taking me back so far that I don't remember not like a lot cuz the one girl that y'all show I didn't know her. >> Yeah. It's It's a lot of years. >> I mean, the only stuff that was in there uh had a >> So So when you So when you do you mean her? Okay. >> I like it all. >> We like it all. >> When asked about Michelle, Robert immediately distanced himself, insisting he had no idea who she was, but detectives were noticing how calculated his answers were becoming. >> If you ever want to pick her up, you know, not that I know of. No. Okay. I mean like I know it's been a while and stuff but uh see like I would know her and like I said I picked up a lot of girls out there but I never think it was too many uh >> what about her? >> Look at me for a second. I didn't get here by accident. >> Okay. I just want you to look at me for a second. Okay. I didn't get here by accident. There's a reason why I'm asking you who this is. >> No, honestly, I don't know who it is. >> Okay, but take a good look at her face. >> Why? >> It doesn't ring a bell or it's not somebody you dated or had a relationship with. It's not somebody you recognize. >> It's nobody I recognize. >> Okay. Okay. We're not tricking you or anything. >> Well, we just want to trick her. Would you find it odd that the reason that we keep her coming back to Carmen? Because she survived. Why would you going back to her? Because these two the exact same thing happened to him. This isn't a coincidence. This isn't This isn't I'm not making this up. I'm not lying to you. All of them. Facts. Carmen lived. Carmen can tell her story. Carmen told her the story >> because Carmen got out of my car. >> Right. >> Right. >> But where was she at before that car? I have no on. >> Right. Where was [music] she at? I have no idea. Hey, was she on Bri, too? Was he? Well, you tell me. >> Robert claimed he had been out of town and could not have traveled along that route. As investigators pressed him, something in Donald's demeanor began to change. >> But the time he told me, I was out of town. I was working for >> You were out of town. >> MPW. >> You weren't out of town, Robert. Because I have your work schedule from MPW from 1996. >> You worked that day. >> I know cuz I've seen it. >> Mhm. >> All right. I told you I didn't get here by accident. >> Okay. >> Right. You're at a point in your life where you need to kind of start thinking about things and these people were humans. They had families. Okay? That's things you need to think about. Clear your conscience. We're not trying to trick you or anything like that. We're giving them look at me. I have no reason to trick you. >> I'm looking at you straight in your eyes, right? Like I have no reason to lie or to trick you. We're saying early I asked you, do you pay you said no? Well, conveniently, all three of these women for the one that the one that I picked up, she was one. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. She admitted to us. We talked to Carmen. >> She told us every living detail of what happened to her that night. And she can remember it like she was reading it both. And she's not. I haven't told you. Here's the one thing I promise you is that I would not lie to you. And I have not lied to you yet. And I'm not going to lie to you. What I'm telling you is that this is a fact. Carmen, Michelle, and all three. All three exactly the same. >> Continuing to stand by his version of events, Robert claimed he had never been involved with these types of women. But when the investigator presented him with a certain photograph, his response left detectives stunned. >> Like Detective Day said, "You're 66 years old." Okay. This is 2021, soon to be 22. There has to come a time where you have to realize none of us here are stupid. None of us have our forehead. Okay? We told you you're going home today. You're going home. I don't care what you say. He doesn't care what you say. She doesn't care. We're taking you home. But we want the truth for these families. You have that. You're the only one who has it. You have that truth in inside here. You're the only one that can tell us because these two are the other one is traumatized. Even though she still remembers, but she's traumatized. So you you have that power for these families. Okay, now my turn. All right. First of all, I don't have top of my head that I stupid, right? >> This woman I [music] I really honestly don't know nothing about. I really honestly don't. And uh Carmen is just a liar. And uh the other one I I don't remember, but I know it was a few girls I was messing with out there. Right. >> Can I ask you a question? >> Yeah. Okay. How come I have people that put you with her because she owed you $40? >> No, she didn't. >> See, y'all had the right person. I ain't never saw >> that she owed you money like no no no. >> You sure? >> Yeah. >> What that look like? >> I have no idea. >> Who's that? >> Detectives presented a photograph of Robert from years earlier. the same image Carmen had identified as the man who attacked her. But his response revealed something about the man they were dealing with. And the confrontation was about to intensify. >> That looks like me. >> That is you. >> That is you. >> That is you. Look down here. Look what this says right here. Look what this says right here. That's not you. I've talked to these people. I've talked to him. >> They put you with Michelle. They said >> like she owed you money. Like I'm not saying you sold saying you did some her and she owed it back to you whether it was >> 1996. When I'm going to do just what month I can put it >> November. November. >> November. >> And what did I pick up? And uh >> not is that what I picked up? I knew it. You the one who had to answer these questions. >> I don't know. I honestly don't know. [music] I'll take a lot of I do not know this woman. Fact is that she was found in Ling County where detective D is from. >> Um and dumped by the side of the road. So we know for 100% certainty you I'm telling you 100% I do not know this woman. >> Okay. I'm like I said I'm I'm not saying you know her. I'm I'm I'm not trying to call you a liar. I I I'm just telling you facts that we know. All right. So, I I don't you know if you didn't know know her name, if you never partied with your with her, if you never drank or smoke, whatever that's but fact is she was found on the side of the road. >> As the interview drew to a close, Robert remained calm, even mocking the victims, showing little concern throughout the questioning. At that moment, Robert walked away without being arrested. But nearly 10 months later, he would face a surprise. >> Yes, sir. Long time no see. Yes, sir. Um, so we don't hear I need to hear it. >> Okay. I will I will explain it to you, but before I'm able to explain it to you, I have to go over a sheet of paper with you. I think it was in November of last year, we had a conversation about um the murder of Alma Lake, I don't know, and Michelle Dawson and were arrested for um with Carmen, what's their last name? Is it Skipper or >> Okay. And we we went over things and we talked about it and then you basically, you know, you denied that, but we but we know that's not the case. We know we know the truth is that you were there and that you did it. So So I'm talking right now. All right. You'll get your opportunity. We know what happened. We know where it happened. And what we're basically doing is notice today that we didn't come there with just our suits on and you got to ride in our car. You came there, we came there with our vest on. You rode in the back of police cars. You were handcuffed. So So things have changed drastically in that amount of time. [snorts] So basically, this is your opportunity to tell us your side of what happened. Rather than allow me to paint the picture, I'm going to let you paint part of the picture. So this is your opportunity, so go ahead. >> This time, detectives stopped asking whether Robert knew the victims. Instead, they confronted him with the facts they had already uncovered. But rather than showing fear or surprise, Robert's reaction showed something else. >> Yeah, I have the wrong person. But think about talk to a lawyer because uh there's things that I don't know. Oh. Oh. I I would say I you know what I would say, Robert, with a lot of the things I don't know and I'm certain of I mean I'm certain there's more. There's more girls. I know you give me I'm give you this little bit. Okay, >> I'm going give you this. Back during that time, I used to have what they call and uh if I spend money or the girls sit up there, what now? I'm running with two other people which I never grown up and uh 2001 or two somebody told me that I was running with the wrong people. So we was at Charleston, West Virginia at the dog races. I left these two people that I was running with and uh there I went to Rono and I was there for like seven years whatever. But the point is with your wife there. >> Yeah. >> But anyway, I come back home. I'm laying in the bed. I don't give up too much. But that that's the truth of everything so far. Okay. Never knew nothing about numbers. All right. Why don't you >> I mean that's quite you're saying there's two other people that we don't know about. Don't tell us who are we. They'll get to them. >> Trying to mislead the investigators. Robert claimed he knew who the real killer was. And what happened next revealed a side of Robert investigators had never seen before. >> You you you don't you don't want to talk to us anymore. You want to talk to an attorney. So I'm not going to ask you any more questions. I am going to tell you this. And now it's my turn to paint the picture. >> Okay. >> Hey. And my picture is going to be painted on facts. Facts that we know. And the key to all this is is is is what you guys all is is is where you are completely missing the boat on being able to tell your side of the story is the fact that I have a alive willing witness who is going to help me and who can tell me every vivid part of her assault which matches the evidence of two other victims who you assaulted. and word. >> Okay. And I have a person who fell there and did and I can prove it and I [clears throat] let's bring it out of >> sounds good to me. >> Yes, sir. >> Appreciate you. Um, >> you need to go to the bathroom or anything? I didn't take a late. >> All right. Somebody come with you so you can take a pee and then >> we'll get you on your way. Okie dokie. >> In the end, Robert Edwards was charged with two life sentences for the sides of two women. Nextly, confused. Next, when the body of a young woman was discovered near a train station, investigators were left with not enough leads. For more than two decades, the case remained unsolved until a single fingerprint completely changed its direction. [music] >> Listen, I got a warrant for your arrest. I'm going to take you. You're not going to dictate what's going to happen. Okay? >> I don't kill nobody, man. >> Creepy guy. Really? >> It's some things about him that I wasn't easy. He showed signs of what they call narcissist uh control uh mental. >> On November 29th, 2021, officers from the Delray Beach Police Department moved in to execute a warrant. And the man they were there for had no idea what was coming. >> Beach Police Department. I have a warrant for your arrest for first degree. >> Who will >> Carl Low back in 1983, the city of Delray Beach? >> I ain't nobody, but we were to talk about it more here shortly. So, >> we'll talk back at at their uh substation >> substation. Man, I ain't nobody, man. >> Perfect. We'll talk about more uh about the shortly. >> Hey, I need to go ahead um I need to get uh get give somebody my caller out there get [music] my key. We'll give you everything right now. I'm going to read your Miranda rights. Okay. >> And then we'll talk more here shortly. But >> I'm required to warn you before you get I need to go call her. Her name is Sha um there going to give us uh give them keys, please. >> We'll get the keys to them. Mr. Williams, I'm required to warn you before you make any statement. You have the following constitutional rights. You have the right to remain sign and answer any questions. Do you understand that right? >> Yeah. >> Okay. Any statement you make must be freely and voluntary given. Do you understand that, sir? >> No, man. What the all them [ __ ] a degree mother? I ain't nobody man. >> We're going to set you down. So we're not going to >> You have the right presentation of lawyer man do a mother thing man. >> When detectives informed the suspect identified as 60-year-old Ralph Williams of the charge for the 1983 m Carlo his reaction was immediate denial as the Miranda warning continued. Ralph was struggling to process how he could be standing there decades later. You have the right to present representation >> of a lawyer of your choice before you make any statement during any question. >> If you cannot afford a lawyer, you're entitled to president representation of a court appointed lawyer before you make any statement and during any question. >> If any time during interview do not wish to answer any questions, your privilege to remain silent. >> One day you'll get on my man. >> I can make no threats or promise to induce you to make a statement. This must be of your own free will. Any statement can be [ __ ] >> and will be used against you in the court of law. I >> ain't hurt nobody warnings. >> We'll explain more shortly. You got questions, we'll be able to answer. >> But let me go ahead, man, and get out that stuff, man. So you can get that stuff out my field. >> Man, listen. We got a we got a warrant for your arrest. We'll take you. We have no interest in the call right now. >> Can she come and get that stuff out, f We'll meet short. >> Yeah. Can I get that stuff? We already >> Let me show us where it's at, please. >> Let me show her where what to get out there. Please, let me >> We're going to wait and do that. >> Just hold on. Just relax for a moment. You're not going to dictate what's going to happen. Okay. Just relax. >> 83. >> Man, ain't killing nobody. No. 82. >> I ain't I ain't kill nobody, man. >> Put back in now. When we get somewhere a little warmer, we'll get cold. No, I'm not. I want >> What do you want to do with your necklace? >> They're going to They're going to >> No, I want to get it at home, man. >> Okay, relax. Look, listen. >> They're going to take care of it. >> That's That's not We're not involved in that. Okay. They're going to be able to They're going to try to accommodate you. They're not required to, >> but they can't. I'm talking about I need her to go get this out the vehicle, man. Put my wife pick up. >> Okay. >> Talk to the insurance officer. They'll see what they do. >> No matter how much Ralph protested, the situation was entirely out of his hands, and detectives weren't going to let that change. What Ralph didn't know was that while he had spent decades believing the past was behind him, some people he knew had memories from 1983 to share. >> So, we're going to go back to 1983. Okay? Hey, if you can remember 1983 in the Palm Beach County jail, if you remember, you were about 20 years old and uh gentleman came in the jail and started bragging about something and you guys called the deputies from inside the jail and wanted to tell them what the guy was bragging about and then they would bring you to the state attorney's office and speak to you in reference. Do you remember anything? Is anything ringing a bell? [ __ ] >> It was a major It was a major crime. Guy came in and was bragging. >> Back then, you provided a statement. Um, so we'd like for you to review the statement just to clarify what occurred. Make sure it's true then. Make sure it's true now. Any updates? >> Well, we're not being very specific yet, but I'd like for you to see. I can remember uh launches and things, but as I read, I remember. Yeah. >> Mhm. Well, it at that time it didn't happen. You know what I mean? Uh I can't say it didn't because we that's why we was able to put it together cuz this mother came in there. He talk a lot of and we know he just run his mouth. We seen the newspaper and that's to contact somebody about it. Other than that we just thought he just host the story, you know. Uh I can't say that I could keep him out of line up or nothing like that because of the time limit you know at that time. Yeah, I can say that it was, you know, I made the statement. >> Yep. >> Okay. >> You know, so we find I guess rescue keep whoever else was in there with us and try to pull it together from there. But I got no problem. Well, I said at that time it was true then, still true today. And >> yeah, we realized the end of that mother was playing did this. Yeah, cuz he was bragging and then >> was too much not to be, you know what I mean, damn person. >> Legitimate. Okay. >> Investigators tracked down Malik Mustafa, a man who had shared a jail cell with Ralph after the in 1983. At first, the details were hazy, but later Malik confirmed his previous account was accurate and that hadn't changed. But contrary to Malik, the next witness had vivid memories from Ralph. So basically the reason why I'm here is because back in So back in 1983, >> okay, >> you hung out with a bunch of girls. Um, can we get some names for you that >> Uhhuh. Because of people that I will hang around. I didn't hang around everybody. >> No. um that group that you hung out with. Uh >> then there was a guy by the name of Ralph Williams, but he called himself Tony Johnson back in the day. >> Spit Ralph. >> That That's >> Ralph used to date Patricia Brown. >> You're good at this game. >> Okay. I used to work at Kmart. >> Yes. >> At that time when I was introduced to him, creepy guy. >> Really? um if some things about him that I wasn't easy, didn't like my girlfriend to date him. >> Uh he showed signs of what they call narcissist uh control uh mental. >> Really? >> Okay. Yeah. >> Okay. So, you do remember that's a long time ago for That's a long time ago for you to remember him. >> A young girl. >> Yeah. >> Yep. >> Wow. That's a long time for you to remember him. Holy moly. >> Okay. Do you remember anything from back then? Um like back in it was 1983. >> Um >> I know what you're talking about. >> What is it? >> I was visited by the police to ask about uh to talk about Ralph. I told them it was some things that I remembered that creep me out, but it's only hearsay. I can't say cuz I wasn't there, >> but I can only speculate on what I was hearing about this white girl that he strangled her and Dr. Body. >> Okay. >> Okay. That's it. All I knew is that he jumped on my girlfriend. He used to live over here in um a rooming house in Dere on the south side. I believe that was 13 13th or 14th, one of them back in the day. And I clearly remember we both went over there to his place. We wind up spinning the night and I wind up getting uncomfortable and I told my girlfriend I'm ready to go because he got up and started spitting all over the walls and hitting the walls and I'm like, "Oh, I ain't signed up for this. [laughter] I ain't signed up for this, you know. Um, it's time for me to go. >> Okay. >> Really? >> I wind up leaving, but she wind up staying. >> Who's that? >> Uh, Patricia Brown. >> Patricia Brown. Yeah, I met her. Yeah. >> Okay. So, whatever happened, but I I clearly remember Vanessa brother Herman was upset with him because I think he jumped on her or something to the effect. And I'm like, "Girl, you don't need this for him. You don't need this man. Why you messing with him?" >> Yep. But then eventually it was cut off when that incident happened. Um supposedly about this this he left town and went to Jackson or so I heard. >> With witness accounts gathered, detectives turned their attention back to the physical evidence. A butter knife recovered from the crime scene in 1983 had never yielded usable fingerprints. But nearly four decades later, detectives sent it to a specialized laboratory in the United Kingdom, where modern technology recovered a print that had gone undetected for 38 years. It belonged to Ralph Williams. After several hours of questioning and being confronted with the full weight of the evidence, Ralph broke down and confessed. In the end, Ralph Williams pleaded guilty to man with a weapon and was sentenced to one year in prison, followed by 10 years of probation. Next, a man was found deceased inside his home under mysterious circumstances. The case remained unsolved for more than two decades until investigators reopened it, which led to someone no one ever expected. >> So, you have a warrant for your arrest out of Kenosha. >> I didn't know about anything like that. >> Well, you've been working on this for 22 years. I've been on this case since 2012. A judge has signed it saying there's enough pros to state that you were involved in an intentional first degree intentional homicide. >> I keep telling you I don't know anything. I really don't. In August 2025, officers in Illinois approached a woman identified as 70-year-old Roxanna Collins during what appeared to be a routine traffic stop. However, little did Roxanna know that the stop was actually about something more serious than her driving. >> You're fine. Uh, you have a license and proof of insurance on you? >> I do. Yes. >> Okay. Well, I'm deputy. Welcome to the McKen County Sheriff's Office. There's a couple reasons to stop you. I saw you when you turned out of your neighborhood and then turn left and then change lanes and all that. >> I'm on my way to get my oil changed. My home's not worried about leaving him now. >> Okay. And uh I'm sorry. >> No, but no worries. That's just why I stopped. You just didn't at all. >> Okay. >> So, there's my insurance. >> Okay. Thank you. >> And you want my license? >> Yes, please. >> Here you go. >> Go. You mind just going like this with your hands for me real quick? >> What's that? >> Put your hands like this for me real quick. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> What's going on, sir? >> I'll explain that in a second. Okay. >> Okay. >> So, you have a warrant for your arrest out of Kenosha. I didn't know about anything like that. >> Okay. Well, that's just why you're in handcuffs right now. Do you have anybody that can come pick up the car? >> When was the hard issue? >> Is that why you guys pulled me over then? Or >> you mean you didn't use your turn signal in front of me? >> All right. I have a lawyer, too. Do I need to get my lawyer or what's the scoop? >> That's up to you. You're not I'm not asking you any questions right now. You're just being you're just being detained right now based off of the warrant that you have out of Kenosha. >> At the start, Roxanna was collaborative, but the moment officers informed her of the real reason for the stop, the calm interaction turned tense. Meanwhile, across town, officers were already making their way to a residence where the second person tied to the case was about to be taken into custody as well. >> Hey, John. >> Hello, sir. >> Step for a second. >> You put your hands behind your back for me. >> John, >> put your palms together. How you doing, man? >> Lieutenant Paulson with the C County Sheriff's Office. You're under arrest. We got a [music] We got a warrant for your arrest. Okay. >> You have any questions right now? >> No. [music] >> You know what it's for? >> Well, you guys called me. >> Yeah. So, what Let me >> Did you push my glasses up? >> Yeah. You get All right. >> So, you got a warrant for for [music] You know what? You got a warrant for >> Yeah. So, this is what I'd like to do. Okay. And just just hear me out. Okay. Um, if you're going to cooperate or, you know, we can handcuff you in front once we get over there. Okay. >> I'm not >> Yeah, I I understand. >> I'm too over. >> I understand. [music] >> You know, >> hear me out. Okay. We're going to take you downtown. Me and Jason. It's my partner. You talk to him on the phone. >> Hi. >> This is Mike over here. Okay. >> We We'd like to try to talk to you. I I really would like to just see what you got to say, but I want I want to go over some things first, but let's go downtown and we'll go from there. >> Listen, [ __ ] she kind of she she she kind of told us what was going on. She kind of she she she sped up to what you know, I don't even have that. So, I can't even go to him right now and say, "Listen, here's what I have right now." She don't want to talk. That's all I have. I I can't do anything else with that. >> I keep telling you I don't know anything. I really don't. And I wrote my law. >> Okay. What's your attorney's name? >> C A Fine. >> Yes. >> Do you have >> Officers made contact with 70-year-old John Viscusil, Roxanna's ex-boyfriend, who was taken into custody without any resistance. But back to Roxanna now inside the interrogation room. She was about to come face to face with the real reason she had been stopped. >> Hey, how are you? I'm okay. Thank you. >> Hey, I never met Jason. This is my partner Jolki. >> Hi, Jason. >> Nice to meet you. >> So, you guys taking me Kosha or what's going on? >> Well, before I do anything, I I will be more than happy to talk to you, answer questions. >> Well, I do have a lawyer, too. I understand that you have you have a warrant for arrest. It's for first degree intentional homicide part of a crime of David. Okay. >> Mhm. >> So now you've been working on this for 22 years. I've been on this case since 2012. And I know remember I mean I'm sure you remember we just talked to you what four or five weeks ago. So, we've done a lot of work on this case. I mean, it's been a it's been a it's been a it's been a marathon, but this is not just a a warrant just to question you. A judge has signed it saying there's enough pros to state that you were involved in an intentional first degree intentional homicide. You're your husband. [music] that. So, I mean, it's the name I want to be nice with you. I want you to understand I'm not I'm not asking you questions. I'm just going to tell you. I'm just I'm talking to you. It's time. This is going on for 22 years. The evidence is clear that you were involved in this or at a very very minimum you making it happen. Okay? There is no other theory to this case. There's no other theory to what happened in We have gone over this case over and over. We examined all the evidence. We've examined all your statements. I want to talk to me. >> Okay. I'm just saying I'm just like, okay, I want you to hear me before we're talking. Okay. I want you to really think about this cuz I apparently you didn't listen to me when I talked to you 4 weeks ago. >> [music] >> I can try to sympathize with you and your situation with your husband right now, especially that you're 7 years old. >> It's on. >> Inside the interrogation room, investigators informed Roxanna that they were reopening the 22-year-old investigation into what happened to her late husband, David Vandery. Rather than responding, Roxanna offered almost nothing in return. >> I understand your husband has a that's a that's a nasty disease. That's a nasty and it's you can only imagine how hard it is to try and take care of. Okay. Well, if we told you that day, you can either be treated as a witness or you can be treated as a suspect. Okay? I know damn well what happened and you know it. This is a very unique situation. It's not like you're a 30-year-old woman that's in custody for homicide. You're 70 years old. You're talking about a case that was 22 years ago. You have mitigating factors in the fact that [music] you have a husband at home. with a s significant disease that needs to be taken care of. But here's the problem. I have nothing to go on right now other than what the evidence shows us because I have nothing for you. You understand what I'm saying? >> Yes. I keep telling you I don't know anything. I really don't. And I want my law. >> Okay. Let me ask you a question. It's nothing in this case. Did you tag him or did you call him after we came to talk to you? I called him because everybody's always getting accused of stuff they didn't do. So, I wanted to know should I be worried about anything or what, you know? >> As investigators pressed Roxanna to open up about what had happened with David, she held her ground. But investigators weren't done making sure Roxanna understood exactly what was at stake. >> You were going to kill her because obviously you're in Illinois. You can't be taken into custody across state lines. >> Okay. >> So, you're going to have to go to an extraation hearing down here. Whether you win tradition or fight it or whatever that's for a judge to decide. Once that process is through then you will then deputies will come down here and transport you to their jail uh to our jail. I'm sorry where you'll face a judge. >> I wanted to I'm told by your name. That's it. >> I understand I you got your right. I I just just know this case isn't going away obviously. Yeah. There's an actual rush brush green homicide. So it's not going away. We're more if you if you decide you want to talk tomorrow or the next day or whatever, we're we're more than happy to drive all the way back down here to talk to you. >> Okay. Well, first I'm going to talk to lawyer. See what he advises. >> Okay. I mean, people go to jail all the time and I'm sorry. I'm scared. So, I'm like, I've got a lot in my life I've got to worry about right now. And >> I [clears throat] understand. >> So, that's all I'm saying. It's one of my earlier. >> Yeah. I want you to understand that this is this was not taken lightly. And the fact that a judge signed off on a probable cause warrant for first degree children on the other side should tell you something. This is not a fishing expedition. I mean, we This case is as solid as could be. >> Okay. >> Looks like you do possibly have a bond. I'm going to confirm that. But >> do you know how much or >> It's I I think it's like 75,000. >> And what do you got to come up with? Like >> that's cash. >> No, I mean you don't pay the whole 70 you don't pay the whole 75,000. Usually it's a percent, right? >> It's Wisconsin where it's fully. It's [music] a what? >> It's so Illinois has like a 10% bond or whatever. That's >> Yeah. >> Not not [clears throat] Illinois. In Wisconsin, it's a full full amount. >> That's crazy. >> Yeah. Well, you come up with You got 75,000? >> No. >> Okay. >> 75,000. >> Well, anyway, I'm just I'm just saying. >> No. >> Okay. In a separate interrogation, John Viscusil was confronted with evidence placing him at David's house on the night of the murder. At the time of the crime, Jon and Roxanne had not yet been together publicly, and Jon had been David's closest friend. Despite the evidence in front of him, Jon denied every accusation. Following both interviews, Roxanne and Jon were each charged with first-degree intentional homicide. Roxanne was held on a $750,000 bond, while Jon was held on $500,000. A few days later, Roxanne was brought in front of a judge for the first time. And according to her attorney, the woman standing before the court was not who investigators believed her to be. >> Miss Collins is currently 70 years old. Uh she is a recently retired individual from about a year ago. She worked as a medical assistant in various uh medical settings for over 20 years. Your honor, she currently lives with her husband Brian in Mckenry, Illinois, and they have been married for 16 years since 2008. Your honor, Miss Collins, she has three adult children and has many grandchildren that live close to her that she spends lots of time with. But your honor, I would like to highlight that Miss Collins is the full-time primary caregiver for her husband, Brian. Brian has advancing Parkinson's disease and has potentially early onset dementia. In fact, Miss Collins receives um payments from the VA uh as a primary caregiver for Brian. Uh actually in 2022, um Brian had a bad fall down the stairs and the state has since put an electric chair in their home to help with his movement. Your honor, Mr. uh Brian's health depends on Miss Collins being able to help him out. Uh your honor, I'd also like to note that Miss Collins has her own medical conditions that need to be addressed. She actively takes medication for high pressure and type 2 diabetes. She is receiving some of those medications but not in the regularity that is required to maintain her health. Your honor, further um Miss Collins does have a uh from the '90s uh but she cannot recall. There's no criminal record of note. She's not on probation, parole, extended supervision or bail for any other matter. Your honor, I also would like to address the strength of the state's case. As I'm sure the court has reviewed the criminal complaint, these charges stem from 21 years ago. Within that 21 years, Miss Collins has been a citizen that is actively involved in her family's lives, has no criminal history, owns a home with her partner. Um there's there's no reason or concern for flights or community safety. In the end, Roxanna was released after posting a $500,000 bond while Jon remained in the Kenosha County Jail. In August 2025, a Kosha court commissioner looked at new witness statements about broken alibis, a firearm [music] connected, and the rest of the evidence. Now the case is waiting for trial.