It's time. This is going on for 22 years. The evidence is clear that you were involved in this. >> I have a warrant for arrest for first-degree murder borrow back in 1983. >> Nobody, man. >> No, man. What the [ __ ] Nobody, man. >> For some, time becomes the greatest alibi. But what happens when their cold cases are being investigated again and they're [music] the last ones to realize it? >> Think I got away with it, but I always thought about it a lot. >> They've been wondering for 50 years what happened to their loved ones. is if this has been eating you for so long, how come you never came forward with it? >> I don't know. I just stay away. >> These were the times when cold case killed didn't realize they had been caught. We begin with the case of a man who was found deceased inside his own home. For more than two decades, the case [music] remained unresolved until a detective revisited the investigation, uncovering the truth behind what had happened. >> So, you have a warrant for your arrest out of Kenosha. >> I didn't know about anything like that. >> Well, you've been working on this for 22 years. I've been on this case since [music] 2012. and Georgia sign it saying there's enough pros of state that you are involved in an intentional first degree intentional homicide. >> I keep telling you I don't know anything. I really don't. >> In August 2025, officers in Illinois approached a woman identified as 70-year-old Roxanna Collins during what appeared to be a routine traffic stop. However, little did Roxanna know that the stop was actually about something more serious than her driving. >> You're fine. Uh you have a license and proof of insurance on you? >> I do. Yes. >> Okay. Well, I'm Deputy Wary County Sheriff's Office. There's a couple reasons to stop you. I saw you when you turned out of your neighborhood and then turn left and then change lanes and all that. >> Mind I'm on my way to get my oil changed. My home's not worried about leaving him now. >> Okay. >> And uh I'm sorry. >> No, no worries. That's just why I stopped. You just didn't. >> Okay. So, there's my insurance. >> Okay. Thank you. >> And you want my license? >> Yes, please. >> Here you go. >> You mind just going like this with your hands for me real quick? >> What's that? >> Put your hands like this for me real quick. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> What's going on, sir? I'll explain that in a second. Okay. >> Okay. So, you have a warrant for your arrest out of Kenosha. >> I didn't know about anything like that. >> Okay. Well, that's just why you're in handcuffs right now. Do you have anybody that can come pick up the car? >> When was the hard issue? >> Is that why you guys pulled me over then? Or >> you mean you couldn't use your turn signal in front of me? All right. I have a lawyer, too. Do I need to get my lawyer or what's the scoop? >> That's up to you. You're not I'm not asking you any questions right now. You're just being you're just being detained right now based off of the warrant that you have out of Kenosha. >> At the start, Roxanna was collaborative. But the moment officers informed her of the real reason for the stop, the calm interaction turned tense. Meanwhile, across town, officers were already making their way to a residence where the second person tied to the case was about to be taken into custody as well. >> Hey, John. Hello, sir. >> Stay pal for a second. [music] >> You put your hands behind your back for me. >> Done. >> Put your palms together. >> How you doing, man? Lieutenant Paul with the county sheriff's [music] office. You're under arrest. We got a we got a warrant for your arrest. Okay. >> You have any questions right now? [music] >> No. >> You know what it's for? >> Well, you guys called me. >> Yeah. So, what would Let me just >> Did you push my glasses up? >> Yeah. You get All right. So, you got a warrant for for [music] you know what you got a warrant for. >> Yeah. >> So, this is what I'd like to do. Okay. And just just hear me out. Okay. >> Um if you're going to cooperate or you know, we can handcuff you in front once we get over there. Okay. [music] >> I'm not yet. >> Yeah. I I understand. >> I'm too old for this. >> I understand. >> You know, >> hear me out. Okay. We're going to take you downtown. Me and [music] Jason. Mike's my partner. You talk to him on the phone. Buddy, >> this is Mike over here. Okay. Certainly, >> we we'd like to try to talk to you. I I really would like to just see what you got to say, but I want I want to go over some things first, but let's go downtown and we'll go from there. >> Listen, she kind of she she kind of told us what was going on kind of she she she sped up to what you know, I don't even have that. So, I can't even go to him right now and say, "Listen, here's what I have right now. You need to talk." She don't want to talk. That's all I have. I can't do anything else with that. >> I keep telling you I don't know anything. I really don't. And I want my law. >> Okay. What's your attorney's name? >> C A Fine. >> Yes. Do you have >> Officers made contact with 70-year-old John Viscasil, Roxanna's ex-boyfriend, who was taken into custody without any resistance. But back to Roxanna. Now, inside the interrogation room, she was about to come face to face with the real reason she had been stopped. All right. How are you? >> I'm okay, thank you. >> Hey, I never met Jason. This is my partner, Jake. >> Hi, Jason. >> Nice to meet you. >> So, you guys taking me Kosha or what's going on? >> Well, before I do anything, I I got him, right? We will be more than happy to talk to you, answer questions. >> Well, I do have a lawyer, too. >> Understandable. You have you have a warrant for your arrest. Since we're first-degree intentional homicide, part of a crime of David. Okay. >> Mhm. So, we've been working on this for 22 years. I've been on this case since 2012. And I don't remember. I mean, I'm sure you remember we just talked to you what, four or five weeks ago. So, we've done a lot of work in this case. I mean, it's been a it's been a it's been a it's been a marathon. But this is not just a a warrant just to question you. A judge has signed it saying there's enough pros to state that you're involved in an intentional first degree intentional homicide. You're your husband. event. [music] So, I mean, it's I I'm going to be honest with you, but I want you to understand I'm not I'm not asking you questions. I'm just going to tell you. I'm just I'm talking to you. It's time. This is going on for 22 years. The evidence is clear that you were involved in this or that very, very minimum being it happened. Okay? There is no other theory to this case. There's no other theory to what happened. We have gone over this case over and over. We examined all the evidence. We've examined all your statements. I want to talk to me. Okay. I'm just saying I'm just like, okay, I want you to hear me before we're not talking. Okay. I want you to really think about this cuz I apparently you didn't listen to me when I talked to you 4 weeks ago. I can try to sympathize with you and your situation with your husband right now, especially that you're 7 years old. >> It's on. >> Inside the interrogation room, investigators informed Roxanna that they were reopening the 22-year-old investigation into what happened to her late husband, David Vandery. Rather than responding, Roxanna offered almost nothing in return. >> I understand your husband has a that's a that's a nasty disease. That's a nasty and it's you can only imagine how hard it is to try and take care of Okay. Well, if he told you that day, you can either be treated as a witness or you can be treated as a suspect. Okay? I know damn well what happened. You know it. This is a very unique situation. It's not like you're a 30-year-old woman that's in custody for homicide. You're 70 years old. You're talking about a case that was 22 years ago. You have mitigating factors in the fact that [music] you have a husband at home with a s significant disease that needs to be taken care of. But here's the problem. I have nothing to go on right now other than what the evidence shows us because I have nothing for you. You understand what I'm saying? >> Yes. I keep telling you I don't know anything. I really don't. And I wrote my book. >> Okay. Let me ask you a question. It's nothing in this case. Did you had him or did you call him after we came and talked to you? >> I called him because everybody's always getting accused of stuff they didn't do. So, I wanted to know should I be worried about anything or what? You know, >> as investigators pressed Roxanna to open up about what had happened with David, she held her ground. But investigators weren't done making sure Roxanna understood exactly what was at stake. >> You were going to be help because because you're at Illinois, you can't be taken into custody across daylights. Okay. >> So, you're going to have to go through an extraation hearing down here. Whether you wave extraation or fight it or whatever, that's for a judge to decide. Once that process is through, they will be when they then [music] deputies will come down here and transport you to their jail uh to our jail. I'm sorry. Where you'll face a judge. >> I wanted to I'm told by your name. That's it. >> I understand. I I bet you're Yeah, you're right. I I just just know this case isn't going away. Obviously. Yeah. There's an actual rush war on site. So, it's not going away. We're more if you if you decide you want to talk tomorrow or the next day or whatever, we're we're more than happy to drive all the way back down here to talk to you. >> Okay. Well, first I'm going to talk to see what he advises. Right. >> Okay. >> I mean, innocent people go to jail all the time, and I'm sorry. I'm scared. So, I'm like, I've got a lot [music] in my life I've got to worry about right now. And >> I understand. >> So, that's all I'm saying. I just want to talk to my lawyer. >> Yeah. But I want you to understand that this is this was not taken lightly in the fact that a judge signed off on a probable cause warrant for first degree children on their side should tell you something. This is not a fishing expedition. I mean we this case is as solid as could be. >> Okay. >> Looks like you do possibly have a bond. I'm going to confirm that. But >> do you know how much or >> it's I I think it's like 75,000. And what do you got to come up with? Like >> that's cash. >> No, I mean you don't pay the whole 70. You don't pay the whole 75,000. Usually it's a percent, right? >> Not because it's Wisconsin more. It's [music] full thing. >> It's a what? >> It's So Illinois has like a 10% bond or whatever. That's Yeah. >> Not Not Illinois. Wisconsin. It's a full It's full amount. >> That's crazy. >> Yeah. What? You think you come up with a You got 75,000? >> No. >> Oh, good. >> 75,000. I'm just I'm just saying. >> No. >> Okay. >> In a separate interrogation, John Viscusil was confronted with evidence placing him at David's house on the night of the murder. At the time of the crime, Jon and Roxanne had not yet been together publicly, and Jon had been David's closest friend. Despite the evidence in front of him, Jon denied every accusation. Following both interviews, Roxan and Jon were each charged with first-degree intentional homicide. Roxanne was held on a $750,000 bond while Jon was held on $500,000. A few days later, Roxanne was brought in front of a judge for the first time. And according to her attorney, the woman standing before the court was not who investigators believed her to be. >> Miss Collins is currently 70 years old. Uh she is a recently retired individual from about a year ago. She worked as a medical assistant in various uh medical settings for over 20 years. Your honor, she currently lives with her husband Brian in Mckenry, Illinois, and they have been married for 16 years since 2008. Your honor, Miss Collins, she has three adult children and has many grandchildren that live close to her that she spends lots of time with. But your honor, I would like to highlight that Miss Collins is the full-time primary caregiver for her husband, Brian. Brian has advancing Parkinson's disease and has potentially early onset dementia. In fact, Miss Collins receives um payments from the VA uh as a primary caregiver for Brian. Uh actually in 2022, um Brian had a bad fall down the stairs and the state has since put an electric chair in their home to help with his movement. Your honor, Mr. uh Brian's health depends on Miss Collins being able to help him out. Uh your honor, I'd also like to note that Miss Collins has her own medical conditions that need to be addressed. She actively takes medication for high pressure and type 2 diabetes. She is receiving some of those medications but not in the regularity that is required to maintain her health. Your honor, further um Miss Collins does have a uh from the '9s uh but she cannot recall. There's no criminal record of note. She's not on probation, parole, extended supervision, or bail for any other matter. Your honor, I also would like to address the strength of the state's case. As I'm sure the court has reviewed the criminal complaint, these charges stem from 21 years ago. Within that 21 years, Miss Collins has been a citizen that is actively involved in her family's lives, has no criminal history, owns a home with her partner. Um there was there's no reason or concern for flight rule safety. In the end, Roxanna was released after posting a $500,000 bond while Jon remained in the Kenosha County Jail. In August 2025, a Kenosha court commissioner looked at new witness statements about broken alibis, a firearm [music] connected, and the rest of the evidence. Now, the case is waiting for trial. Next case, a woman was found deceased inside her home with very little for investigators to go on until a small device strapped to [music] her wrist led them straight to the last person anyone would have suspected. >> What happened? >> We don't know. That's what we're trying to figure out. >> I don't know. >> We're trying to figure out what happened to Karen. But whatever you did led to her death. Not me, my friend. >> On September 13th, officers from the Santa Clara County Sheriff's District received a call from a concerned woman after her co-orker had failed to show up to work for several days. When officers arrived at the missing woman's residence, what was waiting for them on the other side of that door was about to set a deeply troubling investigation into motion. >> Has she moved at all? >> Thank you very much. >> Is she moving at all? I just went inside and I just >> sh passed away. >> Okay. Hello, San Jose police. Hello, San Jose police. She's probably going to be 1055. >> Inside the residence, officers found the missing woman, later identified as 67-year-old Karen Navaro, deceased. But as officers were still processing the scene, someone unexpected was already making his way toward them. >> We're going to leave everything the way it is right now. Okay. >> Good idea. >> Yeah. >> What did >> we know? That's what we're trying to figure out. So, >> yeah. Yeah. >> Family member. Yeah. >> I'll live right here on 24th of November. >> Okay. >> In case you have any questions or whatever. >> Okay. Yeah. Um, did someone already talk to you and get your information? >> Where was it? >> From the corner. >> Yeah. >> From the corner. Talk to you. >> Talk to you already. >> Yeah. She just left. >> Okay. >> I told I checked the mail. >> Okay. Yeah. We're going to we're going to leave everything the way it is for now and then maybe um you know you can come back maybe later on tonight or something. Um cuz the detectives might need just just to make sure. >> Absolutely. They been around. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> See they uh we don't going to come away for any reason anyway. So >> yeah. >> Okay. And then you guys haven't come inside the house at all, right? >> No. >> No. Okay. >> Huh? When's the last time you saw her? Friday. I brought her pizza and cookies. [laughter] >> What time was that, sir? >> I think it was around 3:00, like I told that lady over there. >> Yeah. Okay. >> How was your >> The man was identified as 91year-old Anthony Ayelloo, Karen's stepfather. Speaking with officers at the scene, Anthony showed little sign of distress over the situation with his stepdaughter. Meanwhile, the coworker who had made the call was also present at the scene, and what she told officers about the state of the house when she arrived would quietly shift the direction of the investigation. She was my coworker for past 27 years. >> Oh, sorry. >> And then she was supposed to work yesterday. She didn't like she always called. She didn't show up. And then today my coworker called me. See, Amber, do you know where she lives? Can you go check on her? I said, yeah, I Oh, I said I will go now. >> So, you came over here today just to kind of check up on her. Yeah. >> Yes. I first tried to call her from my home >> today. >> Today? Yeah. Okay. So, just maybe >> What time did you try call? >> So, when you came here? >> Mhm. >> So, you tried calling at about 5. You got here about 9. I'm sorry. About 5. You got here about 5:15. >> About closed. Yeah. >> Yeah. And then did you see anything unusual about the front door, about the house? Anything? >> No, I did not see unusual. Actually, I was so worried that I instead of coming here, I went to that house and I was quite parked [music] there. And then I said, "Hey, wait a minute. That's not the house. This is the house." So, I came here and [music] I asked the neighbor before I entered the house if he could help me, but but he seemed like in a rush. So, he said, "Sorry, ma'am. I cannot." And then we drove. >> Okay. Yeah. >> Was the front door open? >> No, not at that time. It was >> Was it locked? >> It wasn't locked. It was unlocked. >> It was unlocked. Okay. Nothing. >> It wasn't open. >> Unlocked. >> So I >> But closed. >> But closed. Yes. And so I >> tight I mean I got worried cuz I was banging on the door and I was saying it car it. And then I thought, you know, yes, the door was unlocked. So I went in. >> As the investigation developed over the following days, officers worked through the accounts, evidence, and details gathered from the scene. And the picture that began to emerge kept pointing back to the same person. >> Hi. >> All right. Come over here. >> What's going on? >> Let me see your keys. >> All right. Turn around. Turn around. Turn around. >> Wait, wait, wait. What happened? >> You're being detained right now. Okay. >> For what? >> For everybody else. Uh, >> what happened? >> No weapons or anything on you, sir? No. I got a radio and my my wallet. Okay. What's What's cooking it? Um, the case officer here is going to explain to you what's going on. Okay. All right. >> We'll have him I'll talk to you here in a second. This is I [laughter] don't know. >> So, one of the things that I wanted to let you know about was some video camera footage [music] that was found. Um, fortunately for us, Karen Street has a lot of uh video cameras out in front of houses. There's one in on the street that shows your car parked in the driveway. Now, the first time that it shows is right about 3:13 on the 8th. Would that be consistent with you the time that you believe that you got there? Saturday the 8th. You know, I don't know the watches. >> Okay. Okay. >> That's what it shows. It it show it shows a dark gray car parked in the driveway and it's the same shape model as your wife's cuz you drove that car over there, right? >> All the time. >> So, I was looking at it and it shows 3:13 in the afternoon on Saturday >> that I got there that you were there. Okay. It also shows that car leaving at 3:33. Okay. So, you're there for about 20 minutes. It's the same car that same day that you said that you were over there. So, that was at 3:33. Now, I'm no I'm no math wizard, but that tells me you were there for about 20 minutes, which is fine. >> Like I I kind of know the food, too. I don't. >> Okay. But you would agree with me when I say nobody was with you. >> You left. She walked out to the door with you and closed the door and you walked and you left. That's consistent with what the video shows. That's all fine. >> At his residence, Anthony was taken into custody and transported to the station for questioning. At first, Anthony played along as though none of it meant anything to him. But what the suspect didn't know yet was that among that evidence was something far more specific than he had apparently anticipated. >> Do you know if Karen wore a watch? >> I don't. I will tell you this. When we found Karen, Karen was wearing what's called a Fitbit. Do you know what a Do you know what a Fitbit is? >> Okay. A Fitbit. You've probably heard about it. It's like a watch. It has the same functions as a watch. It tells you the date and time, but with technology and the way it's working today, a lot of people want to try to stay fit and stay active, right? >> Oh, sure. >> Okay. Well, the Fitbit is designed to monitor your step count. You ever heard about like step counters, a pedometer, something that that counts your steps >> as I heard about it, but the >> Okay. Well, her Fitbit has a step counter built into it. >> Oh, nice. >> And it also has a heart rate monitor built into it. >> Oh, that's better yet. >> Not bad. So, they've got pretty good technology built into them. Well, when the coroner did Karen's autopsy, they noticed that she was wearing one. >> It's good. >> When they pulled it off of her, we could see that the battery was still working, >> which is good because that means the data is still there. When we got to a point in the investigation where we were trying to figure out what happened to Karen based on what you had told us, we took that Fitbit and we actually had it analyzed. We had it analyzed for any movement that occurred. I will tell you this that the movement stopped on the 8th of September, that same day that you went over to visit her. >> Mhm. >> Okay. I'll also tell you that the heart rate monitor indicated when she passed. Oh, >> the heart rate monitor indicated she passed at 3:28. >> And I was at 3:28. >> You were there at 3:28. So Tony, this is this is kind of my concern. Um, you were there at 3:13, you left at 3:33, but her heart rate went to zero at 3:28 in the afternoon. We need to know what happened. What can I tell you? I have no way to tell you anything. If I was there that long, I don't remember. That's it. I have an unanswered. >> You don't have an answer? >> No. Why would I have an answer? >> When investigators laid out exactly what the Fitbit data revealed about the timeline of events inside Karen's home, Anony's carefully constructed account began to unravel. But the investigators were just getting started. >> Here's another issue that I have, Tony, and I want to kind of put this out there for you. You said that she started eating pizza. >> Mhm. >> Pieces of that pizza were on the floor underneath her. She was actually eating it at the time. which tells me that she probably didn't come back to the door with you because of way the heart rate showed. So, what it showed, it showed normal for a period of time, then all of a sudden it jumped up and then it dropped down to zero, which tells me that there was a brief moment where she was probably struggling and then it dropped off to zero. >> She came to the door. [clears throat] I know that >> she probably answered the door. I totally agree with you. that she came in, closed the door without. >> The problem is, Tony, that's not what the timeline shows. The data isn't lying. The Fitbit or the little heart rate monitor showed that she was deceased at 3:28. You left at 3:33. That's chronologically >> makes me guilty. >> I'm not here to determine guilt or innocence. I'm here to figure out what happened. >> I'm the guy that I'm guilty. >> Do you see the problem with that? So, what happened to Karen? >> I have no idea. >> Tony, >> I have an answer. >> I want you to understand something. Maybe there's there's always reasons for things that occur. [music] I get it. Okay. >> I loved her deaths. >> You might have loved her to death, but whatever you did led to her death. >> Not me, my friend. Never in the world would think anything like that. Never. Tony, she was when you left the house. We can prove that. >> Not when I was. >> Not when I was that, my friend. >> I know that technology is somewhat hard to grasp for a person who's 90 years old. Okay? And I get it cuz technology and me, we're not friends. But I do understand the data that's given to me by people that are smarter than me. All right? I I have to rely on people that understand all this magical stuff that goes on. I watched the video. I saw your car at 3:13. I saw your car not there at 3:33. And we made sure that those times are absolutely not accurate because I had my concerns. I wanted to make absolutely sure I was doing the right thing, that I was going and talking to the right people, specifically you. Because once we found out that she had passed by 3:28, I knew we had a problem and that's why you're here with me. She was there for 5 minutes before you even left the house. At a minimum, actually a minimum of 5 minutes because at 3:35 your car is not there. So maximum of 7 minutes, minimum of five. >> Even as investigators laid out both the Fitbit data and the surveillance footage, Anthony continued to deny any involvement. But what he didn't know yet was that investigators had also been speaking to people close to him. I have a couple of I have a couple of different theories here, >> okay? >> As to why. >> Never, never, never. >> Okay. Well, hear me out here. >> I have a couple of different working theories. One is you needed it for money. >> One is what? >> You were involved in this for money. I don't think that's the case. >> I think you guys are doing what we need. >> I think you guys are doing okay. >> We are. My main concern is the second possibility. You know, you're kind of a spry guy. You're in good shape. Still go to the gym. Um, your wife is elderly. >> She's in a walker. >> I need to >> I don't know. You know, maybe you're just over there looking for comfort. I don't know. Cuz after talking to your wife, cuz >> the guys talked to your wife. >> The other investigators did. They talked to your wife and she remarked that you rarely go over there. >> She what? >> Remarked that you [music] rarely go over there. But for some reason today you brought her or that day you were on her pizza. By the time you would have gotten home, parked your car in front of your house, she was already deceased. She was already dead. She had been killed and could have been somebody in the house. But Tony, you were there. You were physically there in the house at the time. >> I mean, hiding in the other room or something after I left or whatever. >> Okay, Tom, you're you're missing the main concern that I have. You are inside the house [music] when she is when her heart rate goes to zero. You are inside the house. How can you explain that? I I have no explanation. Tony, do you think that's going to fly? I I I have no answer whatsoever in that situation. >> Despite everything being laid out in front of him, Anthony held his ground. But investigators were about to put something else on the table that would be even harder for him to explain away. >> Is there any reason for Karen's to be in your car? >> Blood. >> Blood. >> Blood. I don't know. Because there was a lot of left around when the person caved in her head and I believe that person was you >> in the car. >> I believe that you are responsible for her. >> You like it? >> I found a shirt real similar to the one that you're wearing now except it's [music] doesn't have as many stripes in it. It's got all over the front of it. It's this one here. >> No. >> Yeah. [clears throat] That's your shirt in your house. Here. Here, here's the other problem. Um, in that same hamper, there's another white t-shirt. Looks like the same t-shirt that you're wearing there. >> Yeah, [music] that you're wearing right now. >> Vshape. >> See those spots on the front? They've already tested it. They already tested it. >> Yeah, they already tested it and they said they came back as How did that get there? I have no idea. >> Tony, that's your shirt. It's the same t-shirt that I can see peeking out over the top of your >> I have no idea. That's my What? >> That is It's shirts. [music] >> What is it? >> That's what we're going to find out. So, here's why I'm asking you a very important question. >> A lot of times I get caught and chopped and all that. >> Yeah, Tony, I get that cuz I get the same point. >> But, but here's the problem, Tony. These are little teeny tiny spots all over the shirt. This shirt apparently has the same spots on the front. Now, given what we know and given the splatter that we saw, I don't think you've seen these yet cuz this just came in hot off the press. Those spot patterns are probably the same spot patterns that we see at the scene. Now, here's what's going to happen, and I want to make sure that you understand this. These spots on the shirt they tested present deposit by the way. Um they're going to be compared at the Santa Clair County Lab. There was taken from your stepdaughter. >> Mhm. >> They're going to compare the on that t-shirt with [clears throat] your stepdaughters. And here's what's going to happen. And I want you to understand this cuz these people are really freaking smart. Okay? They have more degrees than I have fingers and toes. They're probably going to come back and say, "This looks like Karen's." I would venture and guess based on what I know. But here's your story, and I want you to understand this. I don't know what happened. She walked me to the door, but yet there's a t-shirt in your clothes hamper, your dirty clothes basket that's got her on it. How are you going to explain that? Don't shake your head. You got to tell me. >> I can't tell you. >> Investigators then revealed that blood had been found both inside Anony's vehicle and on his clothing. Even then, Anthony refused to acknowledge any of it. But investigators weren't finished yet, and the questions they were about to ask would push Anthony into a different territory. >> Tony, are you trying to protect someone? I mean, >> no, I'm not trying to protect anybody. >> I'm saying [clears throat] the truth. >> Is Adele involved? >> Dell, >> is she involved in this? >> No. >> Was she with you in this house? >> No, of course not. I went alone. She could only >> like I said then you need to help us here. You I mean everything you're getting now is pointing towards you. >> I appreciate that. >> Every I know and and you're not stupid. You're actually pretty smart and you get it. How how you you can't even explain this. You can't explain it. You're going to bring no closure to this at all. Did you guys have a fight and you just got mad at her and that was it? >> Never. Never. Like the women. Never. Tony, >> how do you explain this understanding either? >> How do you How do you explain this? >> I have no idea. No way. Can I go do that? Oh my gosh. Poor baby. I didn't do that. Never. Never. I remember what happened. I don't know what happened. >> In the end, Anthony Ayella was charged with first-degree murder and pleaded not guilty. A criminal grand jury formally indicted him in August 2019, [music] and the trial was set to move forward, but his health had been deteriorating steadily throughout custody. Later that month, Anthony was transferred from the Santa Clara County Jail to a hospital due to complications from pre-existing conditions. On [music] September 10th, 2019, Anthony Iayello was pronounced deceased. Next, a case went unsolved for nearly four [music] decades until a single fingerprint that couldn't be processed back in the days was about to change everything. >> Listen, we got a warrant for your arrest. I'm going to take you to dictate what's going to happen. Okay. >> I ain't kill nobody, man. >> Creepy guy. Really? >> It's some things about him that I wasn't easy. He showed signs of what they call narcissist uh control uh mental. >> On November 29th, 2021, officers from the Delray Beach Police Department moved in to execute a warrant. And the man they were there for had no idea what was coming. >> Beach police department. I have a warrant for your arrest for first degree. >> Oh wow. >> Of Carl Low back in 1983 Delray Beach. >> I ain't nobody to talk about it more here shortly. So >> we'll talk back at at their uh >> substation >> substation man. I ain't nobody man. >> Perfect. We'll talk about more uh about the events here shortly. Freaking >> I need to go ahead. Um, I need to get uh get get some my uh caller out there so we can get my key. >> We'll give you everything right now. I'm going to read your Miranda rights. Okay. >> And then we'll talk more here shortly. >> I'm required to warn you. >> I need to get I need to go call her her name Sha um D please. >> We'll get the keys to them. Mr. Williams, I'm required to warn you before you make any statement. You have the follow constitutional rights. You have the right to remain silent and answer any questions. You understand that right? Yeah. >> Okay. Any statement you make must be freely and voluntary given. Do you understand that, sir? >> No, man. What the [ __ ] is mother? I ain't nobody, man. We're going to sit you down. So, we're not going to >> You have the rights or presentation of lawyer do a mother thing, man. >> When detectives informed the suspect identified as 60-year-old Ralph Williams of the charge for the 1983 murder, Carlo, his reaction was immediate denial. As the Miranda warning continued, Ralph was struggling to process how he could be standing there decades later. You have the right to present representation >> of a lawyer of your choice before you make any statement during any question. >> If you cannot afford a lawyer, you're entitled to president representation of a court appointed lawyer before you make any statement and during any question. >> If at any time during interview you do not wish to answer any questions, your court should remain silent. >> Let me go get on my man. >> I can make no threats or promise to induce you to make a statement. This must be of your own free will. Any statement can be [ __ ] >> and will be used against you in a quarter block. Ain't >> hurt nobody. Read your Miranda warnings. What you talking about? We'll explain more shortly. If you got questions, we'll be able to answer. >> Let me go ahead, man, and get out of that stuff, man. So, you can get that stuff out my field. >> So, man, listen. You got a We got a warrant for your arrest. We'll take you. We have no interest in the call right now. [snorts] Call me in here. Uh, >> can she come and get that stuff out for her? >> We'll meet short. >> Yeah. Can I get this? >> Let me show us where it's at. Please, >> let me show her where what to get out there. Please, let me >> We're going to wait and do that. >> Just Just relax for a moment. You're not going to dictate what's going to happen. Okay, just relax. >> What? I ain't kill nobody no >> I ain't I ain't kill nobody, man. >> We'll jump back in now. When we get somewhere a little warmer, we get >> cold. No, I'm about I want >> What do you want to do with your necklace? >> They're going to They're going to >> No, I want to get it at home, man. See if we can get >> Okay, relax. Look. Listen. >> They're going to take care of it. >> That's That's not We're not involved in that. Okay. They're going to be able to They're going to try to accommodate you. They're not required to, but they Okay. >> Okay. I'm talking about I need her to go get this out the vehicle, man. Put my wife pick up. >> Okay. Talk to the insurance officer. Let's see what they can do for you. No matter how much Ralph protested, the situation was entirely out of his hands, and detectives weren't going to let that change. What Ralph didn't know was that while he had spent decades believing the past was behind him, some people he knew had memories from 1983 to share. >> So, we're going to go back to 1983. Okay? If you can remember 1983 in the Palm Beach County jail, if you remember, you were about 20 years old and uh gentleman came in jail and started bragging about something and you guys called the deputies from inside the jail and wanted to tell them what the guy was bragging [music] about and then they would bring you to the state attorney's office and speak to you in reference to do you remember anything? [music] Is anything ringing a bell? It was a major It was a major crime. Guy came in and was bragging >> back then. You provided a statement. Um, so we'd like for you to review the statement just to clarify what occurred. Make sure it's true then. Make sure it's true now. If anything updates, >> well, we're not being very specific yet, but I'd like for you to at least, >> like I say, I can remember uh responses and things, but as I read, I remember. Yeah. >> Mhm. At that time it didn't happen. You know what I mean? I can't say it didn't because we that's why we was able to put it together cuz this mother came in and they talk a lot of and we know he just run his mouth. We seen the newspaper and that's had to contact somebody about it. Other than that we just thought he was just jail house telling story you know. Uh I can't say that I could keep him out of line up or nothing like that because of the time limit you know at that time. Yeah, I can say that it was, you know, I made a statement. >> Yep. >> Too. >> Okay. >> You know, so we find I guess rescue people, whoever else was in there with us, try to pull it together from there. But I got no problem what I said at that time. >> True then. Still true today. And >> yeah, we realized the end of that mother was playing this. >> Yeah. cuz he was bragging and then >> was too much not to be you know what I mean that person >> legitimate. Okay. >> Investigators tracked down Malik Mustafa, a man who had shared a jail cell with Ralph after the in 1983. At first the details were hazy. But later Malik confirmed his previous account was accurate and that hadn't changed. But contrary to Malik, the next witness had vivid memories from Ralph. So basically the reason why I'm here is because back in So back in 1983, >> okay, >> you hung out with a bunch of girls. >> Um, can we get some names for you? >> Uhhuh. Because of people that I would hang around, >> I didn't hang around everybody. >> No. um that group that you hung out with. >> Then there was a guy by the name of Ralph Williams, but he called himself Tony Johnson back in the day. >> Spit Ralph. >> That That's >> Ralph used to date Patricia Brown. >> You're good at this game. >> Okay. I used to work at Kmart. >> Yes. >> At that time when I was introduced to him, creepy guy. >> Really? Um if some things about him that I wasn't easy, didn't like my girlfriend to date him. >> Uh he showed signs of what they call narcissist uh control uh mental. >> Really? >> Okay. Yeah. >> Okay. So you do remember that's a long time ago for That's a long time ago for you to remember him. >> A young girl. >> Yeah. >> Yep. >> Wow. That's a long time for you to remember him. Holy moly. >> Okay. Do you remember anything from back then? Um like back in it was 1983. >> Um >> I know what you're talking about. >> What is it? >> I was visit by the police to ask about uh to talk about Raph. I told them it was some things that I remembered that creep me out, but it's only hearsay. I can't say cuz I wasn't there, >> but I can only speculate on what I was hearing about this white girl that he strangled her and Dr. Body. >> Okay. >> Okay. That's it. All I knew is that he jumped on my girlfriend. He used to live over here in um a rooming house in Dere on the south side. And I believe that was 13 13th or 14th, one of them back in the day. And I clearly remember we both went over there to his place. We wind up spending the night and I wind up getting uncomfortable and I told my girlfriend I'm ready to go because he got up and started spitting all over the walls and hitting the walls and I'm like, "Oh, I ain't sign up for this. [laughter] I ain't sign up for this, you know. Um, it's time for me to go. >> Okay. >> Really? >> I wind up leaving, but she wind up staying. >> Who's that? >> Uh, Patricia Brown. >> Patricia Brown. Yeah, I met her. Yeah. >> Okay. So, whatever happened, but I I clearly remember Vanessa brother Herman was upset with him because I think he jumped on her or something to the effect. And I'm like, "Girl, you don't need this boy here. You don't need this man. Why you messing with him?" >> Yep. But then eventually it was cut off when that incident happened. Um supposedly about this this he left town and went to Jackson be or so I heard. >> With witness accounts gathered, detectives turned their attention back to the physical evidence. A butter knife recovered from the crime scene in 1983 had never yielded usable fingerprints. But nearly four decades later, detectives sent it to a specialized laboratory in the United Kingdom, where modern technology recovered a print that had gone undetected for 38 years. It belonged to Ralph Williams. After several hours of questioning and being confronted with the full weight of the evidence, Ralph broke down and confessed. In the end, Ralph Williams pleaded guilty [music] to man with a weapon and was sentenced to one year in prison, followed by 10 years of probation. Next, the case of a young woman whose body was discovered in the 70s went cold after limited technology and few [music] leads. For decades, the person responsible went on living their life with no reason to believe anyone was still looking. But [music] they were wrong. >> What led us here is um a homicide. Your DNA was on the scene and it's time for you to talk about what happened. >> I don't know what you're talking about. I grabbed a knife. I just went boom like that and it was instant. [clears throat] >> In November 2024, officers from the Dunn County Sheriff's Office made their way to an assisted living facility. And the man they had come to see had no idea they were coming. >> How you doing, sir? All right. >> Looking for John. >> Me. >> John. I'm Dan. Good to meet you. >> Um this is my partner Jason. We work with the Dun County Sheriff's Office and we're hoping uh maybe sit down with you in your home or wherever you're comfortable and have a conversation. Come on. >> All right. Thank you. >> Nothing like getting bothered on a nice day, huh? So, I think that you might be able to help me out. Um it's been a long road to get here. Um but I kind of want to start off by talking about your family. Um, probably family that you don't know. I'll be honest with you, John, because it goes it goes pretty far back. Um, I'm going to pull out a little sheet here. Do you know I know you were adopted. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Who who were who were you adopted by? [music] >> Uh, Maru Miller and Grace Miller. >> And Grace Miller. Yeah. >> Okay. Were you adopted as a an infant? >> Yep. Do >> you So, you don't know any of the Pearson family? Who? >> Pearson is the last name. Not that I can recall. >> Do you know anything about your biological parents? >> No, I just know my mother had an affair [music] with a a guy from you father and that's where I came from. >> Okay. So, >> and I'm supposed to have a brother. >> You're supposed to have a brother. Do you know what their name is? >> No. >> Detectives kept things relaxed from the start and the suspect, 84year-old John Miller, agreed to sit down and talk. But what seemed like a casual conversation was anything but. >> Did you ever live with Rof like in the cities? >> No, I was in the country. >> Did she work too at the carnival with you or what did she do? >> Uh Ruth was a cook. >> Oh, she was >> and Copper [clears throat] Tree Restaurant. >> Copper Tree restaurant. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Did she work during the day or nights or >> She worked all the time. So, I'll level with you a little bit, John, as I talk to Ruth to working on this this tree I want to show you because, like I said, you might be able to help me out further. But there was mentioned that um gotten a gun from her dad back when you guys were married and said, "Obviously, nothing, you know, you're not in trouble for that particular thing, but um I was just wondering if that helped you remember anything." >> Yeah. There you go. That's where I got the gun from. >> And that was the one you used for the robbery when you were a young man. >> Yeah. >> Did Ruth ever talk to you about that or No, >> I don't think so. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. She she also said that sometimes you would take her car and I'm assuming now you must have been going fishing and that kind of thing. But she she said that you guys were living near Minneapolis. Near Minneapolis I was north of Minneapolis but how far I don't know. You think if you looked at a map of Minneapolis, you'd have a general idea just so I understand where you're talking about? >> Detectives guided the conversation toward John's life in 1974. But detectives weren't relying on his memory because what they were about to bring up had nothing to do with what John chose to recall. >> Um, you know, obviously the we're in the age of technology, [music] so um, a lot of advancements have been made and with ancestry, DNA, and that kind of thing. Um, we've been able to build out a lot of family charts and that's why I was talking to Ruth and and Tina and they were great. And that's how I know your your biological parents. Your dad was actually John Pearson was his name. I don't know if you remember ever hearing that or maybe you didn't have anything to do with with John Pearson, but I remember my my name that I remember was Donald [music] Johnson. Donald Keith Johnson. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> And when they adopted, when my folks adopted me, they kept my middle name. >> Okay. [music] Just renamed you to John. Dropped the H. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Yeah. So, these are some of the names that we've we've come up with with this DNA profile stuff that we have. Like, do you recognize the name Bar at all? [music] >> Bar. B A H R. Joan Bar, I think. No, that was Bur >> or Southerntherland. >> No, >> no, I was just curious to get to the that point, John. The case that we're looking at, um, there's DNA and obviously it's from many years ago. And when I started looking at at this case, [music] I started working with the DNA cuz we got new technology. And we do what's called ancestry. Um, it's investigative genetic genealogy which takes a DNA sample from whatever scene we might be working on and helps us build a family tree and the units of measurement eventually help us find who might have contributed DNA to a scene. Does that make sense? >> I guess. >> Okay. What led us here is um a homicide. >> Okay. [music] >> Okay. >> It's It's been a long road to get here and I'm very glad that you're talking with me. But at the scene of this homicide, there was evidence that was collected. And subsequently, when I picked up the case, because of the advancement of technology, we were able to start figuring out where that DNA came from. Okay? DNA is non-escapable. You can't escape it. It is what it is. It is whoever it belongs to. So, your DNA was found at the scene of the crime. Mine, [clears throat] >> correct? And obviously, there's been an investigation going on since this happened [music] and a lot of evidence besides the DNA was pointing to you, and the DNA was kind of the last part of it. >> Detective Dan walked John through how genetic genealogy works and how the DNA and the other evidence pointed directly to him. But what John said next left the whole room in gasp. >> You got me curious now. >> Okay. So, [music] we responded to a scene. We being law enforcement. I wasn't even alive yet in 1974. A woman was she she and left on the side of the road. There was a vehicle description. [clears throat] There was a description of the mail among other things. [music] And then now the DNA and that's why we're here. [clears throat] >> So there's still some things that we're going to be working on, but you have to tell me why your DNA was on the scene of this homicide. >> I really don't know what to say. John, I need you to think about what your answer is going to be here because I only have one opportunity that I can give you. But the girl went missing from Minneapolis and was found an hour and 45 minutes after she was last seen. And I'm not going to give you any more details about this, but the fact [clears throat] of the matter is is the family needs rest. Your DNA was on the scene, and it's time for you to talk about what happened. >> I don't know what you're talking about. I can't help you out. [music] I don't know what to say. All right, I did. I put him in a snow bank. Is that enough? >> It was an accident. >> Detective Dan laid out what the investigation had assembled and informed John that this was the opportunity to finally explain what happened. But minutes after the DNA evidence was put on the table, something shifted. And with that, the conversation that detectives had spent 50 years working toward had finally begun. >> I had a fishing knife, a skinny knife in my visor. I asked the lady if she'd give me a >> Mhm. [clears throat] >> She said no. when she bent over and I reached up the other night and just hit her once and I [clears throat] I can't believe it. She's dead. So I drove off off my area. I went up and I put her in the snow bank. >> Okay. And there was a car that come up behind me and I think well I'm g in the paper the next day entirely different color to the car and everything slightly [music] whooped up but that's what happened. >> What vehicle were you driving when you picked this gal up? I think it was the the gremlin. >> The gremlin? >> Yeah. The 72 Gremlin. >> Do you know [music] her name? >> No. >> Where did you pick her up? >> She was hitchhiking. >> She was hitchhiking. >> Yeah. >> How do you know she was hitchhiking? >> I saw her. >> Well, I mean, did she have anything in her hands? Was she carrying anything? Walking? >> No, she's just >> putting her thumb out. Yeah, I was driving and I asked her if she would give me a and she said no. She bent over in the seat. I reached up and grabbed that fish knife and [music] boom, that was it. >> Do you know where whereabouts you were when you >> No. >> Are you you said she bent over the fishing knife [clears throat] >> in the front seat. She leaned over like this. Then when I read in the newspaper the next day, everything didn't jive. So I figured I got away. I thought figured I got away with it, but [music] I always thought about it a lot. >> Yeah. Wait, heavy on your mind? [music] >> Yep. Every once in a while, come back. >> With John now talking, detectives listened to what he claimed had happened that night. But as John finished his account, detectives had already noticed something that didn't add up, and they weren't going to let it go. >> Because we're having an effective conversation, you and I, John, she she had more than one. And I I want you to really think hard so we can you can really show me a picture of what happened [clears throat] that day. It could have been panic, you know, after the initial. You say, "I don't know. That's why I'm here and I want to hear it from you." [clears throat] Like I said, I thought when I found out she would realize she was I found an off road, went out and found put in a snowbank. >> And did more than once while you were still in the car? one time just once in the back. >> John, that's not true. >> It is true. [music] That's what I I remember. I had one time in the back and Oh, man. >> John, why did you do that? >> I don't know. To this day, I don't know. Maybe because when when she said no, I figured I'm in trouble. I better get rid of it. Who knows? Only me. And you know when you walked in the door today? >> Yeah. >> I knew right away what it was going to be about. >> Did you? >> Yeah. >> With John's account on the table, Detective Dan began pointing out what didn't add up. It was becoming clear that Jon was willing to admit to being there, but not to the full weight of what he had done. And the questions detectives were about to ask would make that position difficult to hold on to. Have you ever done this to anybody else? >> No. >> What do you think should happen to you at this point in your life for doing something like this? >> Well, I go to court and get sentenced and locked up. >> How does that make you feel? >> Stupid. Yeah. >> Oh, yeah. I mean, we had mentioned earlier that obviously this has got to be a relief to you in some respect, but the other side of this is is is her family. You know, they've they're still here. They've been wondering for 50 years what happened to their loved one. So part of this is we're trying to bring as much detail and closure to them. >> So I want to ask you again, did you ever John? [music] >> No. No, I did not. That I know. If I did, I don't not remember. I remember just what I did. >> John, last thing that I want to ask you before we we go on to the next step with this is if this has been eating you for so long, how come you never came forward with it? I don't know. I just I got away [snorts] got away with it and leave it like that. >> While John recalled certain details with clarity, his memory of the crime itself was conveniently incomplete. But detectives weren't done and those answers weren't going to be good enough. >> John, I appreciate your cooperation with everything, okay? And my partner and I will probably follow up with you again, >> okay? >> But because you're going into the car, I'm put handcuffs on you, okay? I'll put him on the front. I don't want you to be uncomfortable. Okay. You fine with him holding on to this? >> How you feeling about everything? >> I don't [music] really know. >> Okay. And you told me that that you her because you needed to get rid of her because she denied your advance. >> Yeah. [snorts] >> John, I can tell you right now that that's not the full truth. You you you got to listen. I'll listen. >> There there is multiple on her. You do not forget that. [music] You just don't. >> I do. >> I have no [clears throat] idea how this [music] >> John She had multiple on her just on her back alone. She There was a fight between the two of you. She tried to take the knife from you or tried to protect herself because her hands are both of her hands. You might not want to remember this, John, but I don't. >> Think real hard and you'll remember it because you do not forget [music] that kind of thing. You remember it clearly. >> I remember what I did, but I don't remember any of that. Honest, I don't. [music] >> John, I don't believe you. >> I don't care if you believe me or not. I know what I think I did, and I don't remember doing any of that other stuff. I really don't. >> So, how do you think she get wounds on both of her hands? I don't know all remember [music] in the back [clears throat] one time and I remember she she got so I drove up and put in a snow bankank that's all I remember the truth how do you think a wound like this would happen Look at her hands. How do you think that happened? >> It must have grabbed a knife. >> Must have grabbed a knife. >> Yeah, if that's what if that's what happened. I don't know that, but that must have happened. >> Well, are you telling me that if you picked her up, she might have had these wounds already? >> I don't know. >> Detective Dan laid out what the autopsy had revealed, directly contradicting everything Jon had described. But as detectives pressed further, a detail emerged that John hadn't meant to let slip. >> Yeah, we're not, as you can gather here, we're not buying that you don't remember any more specific details. This is a very significant incident. >> I don't care what your life >> I don't remember. Period. >> Yeah. What I think you did is wish you was still seated in upright position. >> No, he wasn't. in the back one time. Period. >> And why would she be leaning down like that? [clears throat] >> Cuz I She said no. >> So you threatened her. >> I I told her I wanted. >> Okay. >> She And she said no. And when she said no, she bent over and started back one time and that was it. [music] Well, you just said that you threatened her, John. What did you threaten her with? >> The knife. >> So, it doesn't make sense to me. If you threatened her with a knife, John, then she didn't just lean forward and back. That did not happen. >> She bent over and was I've heard your story, John. You said she bent over and you took the knife and back and her. I've heard that story. But now you just told me that you threatened her with the knife. You are not going to have her seated across from you and threaten her with a knife that she can't see. And she's not going to lean over and start crying. Something else happened in the car. >> No. [music] No. >> It did. John, >> I don't care what you think. I know it is. >> Some of what we think. That's what the evidence tells us, shows us. No, whatever. What? You're wrong. >> That story doesn't work. >> I don't care. >> John, it doesn't work. >> You need to come off of this. >> I don't want to talk no more. >> Okay, >> I'm done talking. >> In the end, John Miller pleaded no contest to first-degree. [music] He was sentenced to life in prison. In this next case, a man spent 30 years as a fugitive and convinced that starting over under a new identity was enough to keep justice [music] from catching up with him. But officers will show that he was completely wrong. >> The info you give me comes back to guy. Gregory Solins. So, who are you? You're Gregory. You're just not. >> I have not committed crime since 1982. And they're going to take me back to the Oh, we got him again. Oh, we caught him. We caught him. >> Guys, they've been popping my ass for 30 41 years now. On June 26th, 2024, officers in Iowa were conducting a routine welfare check when they noticed a cyclist riding without lights on his bike, something that isn't even illegal in the state. What seemed like a simple encounter over a minor issue, however, would soon uncover a criminal secret buried for more than 30 years. You got to have a rear reflector on your bike, my man, if you're going to ride on the roadway. >> So, what's up? >> Oh, okay. >> So, and then if you're going to ride at night, you need a front light. I'm sure you know that, but you got an idea on you real quick just so I can say I stop to talk with you with me. >> Okay. Can I get your uh >> Greg Stalins? >> Greg Stins is your name? >> Gregory. >> Gregory. G R E G O R Y. >> And how do you spell Solins? >> S T A L L I N S. >> S. What's your date of birth? >> Uh, [music] >> all right. Bear with me, buddy. I'll get you as fast as I can. 4150 417 here park suspicious activity if you say new message. >> Sounds like they just concerned about somebody. >> When officers entered the name he provided into the system, nothing came up. At first, it didn't seem alarming. It could have been a simple spelling error. But when a second attempt returned the same result, the situation quickly became more concerning. >> Hang tight for me. I'll get you out as fast as I can. >> Yeah. Dale check on 4150 ratio. Copy. Call a cell and verify safety. Gregor, I'm still not getting that back. Are you sure that's right? Make sure it is [music] cookies. >> I've been a long time since I had the look. >> Yeah, >> I've been a long time since I had the look. >> Yeah, >> I do. Can you run one for me? Last name Stalin. Sam, Tom, Adam, Lincoln, Lincoln, Ida, Nora, Sam. First name Gregory George Robert Edward George Ocean Robert Young. The reason why is because I hate if you're riding your bike and someone rear ends you. >> Oh yeah. >> And then they can try they can kind of point >> because the reflector and I hate that cuz it's like no it's >> I understand that. >> Copy. Can we try? And I'm also with our traffic unit so I do all our accident investigations. So whenever bikes are involved it almost always is way worse than Yes. They usually hit you from behind. >> Yep. Yes they do. I just can't let you go at this point till I verify who you are. So that's cool. >> Just going to Ivy. >> There you go. >> The man introduced himself as Gregory Stalin. But when officers attempted to verify the name, nothing appeared in the system. What had started as a routine welfare check suddenly took a different turn. Something wasn't adding up and officers began to suspect the elderly man was concealing more than he was letting on. >> Where do you live at? >> Down in the woods back way back over that way in De Mo. >> Nice. You like your spot back there or >> Oh yeah, I've been there. Okay. >> Yeah. Just enough to you're secluded a little bit hopefully. >> Yeah. >> Unless I come walking up the trail or whatever. >> Yeah. So, Greg, to make sure I have a spot right, your first name is G R E G O R Y. Last name is what? >> S T A L L I N S. >> Okay. And your date of birth is >> Okay. And have you ever had an Iowa driver's license before? >> Uh, no, not here. >> What was the driver's license you have had? >> Yeah. Uh, Florida, maybe. >> I haven't had a driver's license in years. I haven't. >> Copy. Can you try running him through Florida? What's your What's your middle name? >> Uh, W. >> W. >> W. Initial W as in William. >> How long have you been living up here then? You haven't tried to get an ID card or anything yet? >> No. >> No. >> Never had. Never. >> I guess there's no reason to. Yeah. >> Cuz I'm not driving or anything. >> Yeah. Makes sense. >> At this point, officers had already sensed something was off. But when they started asking deeper questions about his identification, Gregory's composure began to crack. Nervousness replaced calm and his defensive reactions only fueled their suspicions. >> Try to think for me. Where was the last place you had an ID? Then >> I know human services. They know me. >> Human services know you. >> Right here. West Point. Yeah, I want you out there every morning putting stuff out. We can go right up there and you >> I would just think of this. What state? I can get you through any state even if it's really old. So >> I It's been I know it's been a while. Just try to think. Yeah, try to think for me. >> Sorry. I can't help, dude. Sorry. >> Where else have you lived? >> I lived here a long time. I've lived in Florida for a bit. I've lived really wild places. Forget >> where did you grow up? I guess where would you turn 16 at? >> Uh my dad was in the military. See, would have been uh Illinois. Could have been Illinois. We were born all over the United States. That was >> 4423. >> I lock my bike up. >> Last one. Can you try uh him through Illinois? >> Should you lock your bike up? I'm going to take you. >> I'm not going to take you. I'd rather just I don't think there's any reason for me to take you. I just need to figure out who you are and then >> that's why I say we can go right down here as soon as >> Yeah, but that doesn't help me at all. Like you could tell them that's your name forever. >> You know, they might even have a copy of my social security card. I know I used it there years ago. >> Yeah, I know. They took it out. I'm down there every morning putting stuff out on the table. >> After several minutes, officers let Gregory go. But back inside their patrol car, they decided to double check the system once again. His name returned no results. What had seemed like a minor irregularity was now becoming something far more suspicious. >> Homeless, dude. I can't freaking find anything on him. and he's like lived in like 19 different states and doesn't he got ran over by a car supposedly a couple years ago so his memory is not great. He gave me his so his name and date of birth like he's going to I now so we can find him later. But >> at this point officers decided to stop him a second time. At first the conversation appeared routine just another exchange of basic information. But when Greyogy began offering new details it became the story was shifting and the lie wouldn't last much longer. >> But they came back with no >> what? >> Nothing at all. And he came back with >> I was going to stop on my way back and I got done. >> Yeah. >> Human sources to go in there and see what >> So, what we're going to do for now while I keep investigating this is I'm going to take a picture of you and send it to our guy who has facial wreck. So, you pull your hat off and your glasses off. >> All right. >> Okay. Just have a seat for me. Okay. I called Pop Party too and verified with him on the way over if I found him that he's okay with doing it. He gave me a new date of birth. So I'm going to try it, but it's only a couple days off. So I feel like Clear would have been able to pull that up. So both the socials you gave me come back to other people. One of them's deceased. The other one's a lady. So I don't think either of those are you. >> No. >> Try I know you had that brain injury that we talked about, but can you try your best? Can you think of a so because here's the issues. I don't want to arrest you for the um for stopping you without the rear reflector cuz like I told you, I should just stop people to let them know cuz I don't want it to be your fault when you get hit. But if I can't verify who you are and the info you did give me comes back to nobody and comes back to other people, that's the bigger issue. >> You know what I mean, buddy? >> Yeah, >> it sounds good. Yeah, cuz he gave us two socials that don't that come back to a girl and a deceased person. So yeah, we're good. We'll be excited here for a bit. No checks, >> partner. I I just met you. How How'd you say you spelled your first and last name? >> Gregory. >> Yep. Spell >> R E D O R Y. Stalling. S t a l i >> and your neighbor was what? >> What a year. >> So you got >> Yeah. >> Pop can't find Bey and he's locked out of his account. So he's trying to find Bey. He also messaged Feelely. So Fely's going to and he's waiting for Philly to message back. So >> wish Yeah. >> With each new piece of evidence, the case against him strengthened. Officers raised the pressure, confronting him with inconsistencies. He continued to lie, unwavering. His determination and his version of the truth revealed a level of audacity that surprised even seasoned investigators. >> All right, brother. Time to be honest with me. Okay, so the info you give me comes back to a dead guy. Gregory Stins is dead and right. >> And the Yeah. >> Yeah. So, who are you? >> I'm >> You're Gregory. You're just not dead. >> I'm not dead. >> Yeah. >> Could it just because I haven't been on anything for a long long time? >> They don't just declare people deceased cuz they haven't heard from them in a little bit. >> I'm just I don't know. We want to see some sort of picture. Don't really know how to proceed with this guy without taking my bike over there. If you're going back >> if Yeah, if if I'm going to arrest you, we're still doing a couple of things cuz I'm trying not to arrest you Gregory. >> I said 20 the year of the death. Did you go >> did you go missing in that year? Did you >> I would have been missing been missing for a long time. >> Well, would someone report you missing and then they just declare >> No, I don't talk to my people in a long long long long time. >> Okay. >> I have not talked known by my friends long time. >> I think I'm going call Countryman and get it approved by him. I think whichever direction. >> Yeah. I I I uh I I don't understand what's really going on. Yeah, let me call and get his I I feel like we need >> Yeah, I'll get supervisor one way or another is missing. They could be in the system as missing. >> At this point, after lying for several hours, Gregory eventually told officers his true name, George. When officers ran it through the database, they discovered he'd had an outstanding warrant for kidnapping. The case that had occurred in 1983 after a woman was found, distressed, and tied to a tree near Chippoa in a rural area. Officers knew they were dealing with a fugitive on the run. >> I see both. >> Yo, none of us are mad at you. I'm just baffled that law enforcement has let you go for 30 years and not push these two. >> What's crazy is 1990 that means you've been on the run longer than two out of the three officers here on the street than have been alive. >> 1995 I was one years old. >> 94. No, I'm saying yeah, you talk about where have you been of all your different places? >> Where's your been your favorite? >> Iowa. I mean, >> why is that just curio? >> Well, not Michigan, though. You get a dime. >> Yeah, you can, brother. >> Why not Michigan? You get a dime for that. >> [ __ ] up. >> Hey, buddy. Can I get that knife out of your pocket since uh and then you can do whatever you want with your >> I don't want it. you. It'll go with your stuff. But >> I about >> We don't Well, we don't know if Wisconsin wants it yet or not. >> 82. >> I do have a clear. >> No, that's why I was going to go get some. >> Can you go to the vape shop like a pack of $45? >> I am really inclined to do that cuz you were honest with us. So, what kind do you want? >> They're Crown menthol 100. >> I'm not going to remember that. Crown menthol 100. >> Yeah, that's cheapest. is asking for the cheapest method they got. I can vote at this. I don't even >> Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. >> So figure it out. >> Maybe they don't want to know. I like to know the information. >> Yeah. >> Then I wouldn't have to be doing what I'm doing. >> Uh like possession of shortbarreled rifle, false imprisonments, a bunch of stuff from he's on the run since like 95. So he gave us a bunch he gave us false information and then gave us information of a dead guy and then which tipped us off and then hard part is that I stopped them on a city code violation cuz city code says that during the day you have to have a rear reflector but state code doesn't. So like I didn't want to I wanted to figure out as much as I could here and I didn't want to hook them on a city code cuz that makes a lot of issues. So So now Ice is coming out cuz we can't quite 100% verify it's who he is cuz he gave us >> front of him. Yeah, he gave us the wrong so I was a little bit off. >> Uh I don't I'd have to go look at it. Sorry. >> Yeah. >> Um I can give you his info though. >> It says >> what's uh well that's the issue too. Uh we're thinking West Virginia. >> Card Road is the last name. H A R T L E R O A D. >> Yep. First name is George Thomas. >> 19. No middle name. >> As the investigation unraveled the truth, George dropped the facade. Speaking with open defiance, he described what had happened as though he had nothing to lose. He didn't retreat. He challenged the officers face to face. >> Wisconsin wants you, buddy. >> I figured that. I told you just for leaving the state without permit. >> Yeah. Well, for those charges, I'd assume. Yeah. >> Yeah. Nothing new. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Something else. I have not committed crime since 1982. >> You committed one today? Why that? Well, >> if I wanted to have a vendetta, >> crime, >> if I wanted to have a vendetta, I could hit you for false information today. And what that'd make you do is they'd have to bring you back. I just told you that there's a little gray arrow in the >> Oh, yeah. >> If you provide any info, even if you're not required to provide info, if you provide false info, that's a problem. >> Okay. Well, what are they going to do? Give me a couple years. >> I'm not doing that's exactly >> thing. What's the worst they can do to me? >> That's you know, you're not wrong. Everything is >> You're already in deep [ __ ] anyway. >> Everything about they're going to take me back. They're send me through the system. >> They're going to Oh, we got him again. Oh, we caught him. We caught him. You're not everything I know that. >> No, everything you said today has been 100% correct. I can't be mad about any of it because you've been 100% correct other than the name. Other than the dead guy's name. >> I didn't even know the guy was dead. >> Find someone else's name. >> He died. He died like 5 years later. He did not last very long. >> Did he? He did. >> You better find someone else. You do. Don't worry. >> That's I will I will jump again, sir. They turn me loose. >> You know, every time. Uh, no guys, they've been popping my ass >> for 30 41 years now. >> Yeah. >> On a 9-year sentence. >> At this point, his aggression no longer mattered. For more than three decades, a criminal case had been waiting in his name, and it was finally catching up to him. >> All right, I come back. >> [ __ ] him. box here. >> What's air pocket? >> Oh, double lock. You say don't tighten up on you. Okay, buddy. >> Hey, you're under that go with us. >> No, that way. I got some cheese. >> Yeah, I'm not going to take serious for smoking. But >> no, you won't be able to smoke in there, but I'll be able to take them out. Okay. >> Yeah, >> I'm going to take him out of your pocket just so you don't line them up in the back of my car. I've had someone do that before. >> I can see it. >> Pop a squat for me. >> They took their butane liner out. >> Let her up. >> No, it's good. >> Oh, I said you never seen a squat car or what? >> No, I was just wonderful, [music] but lean back for a second. I'll loosen this up. Perfect. >> That's a little too loose. I went too far the other way. >> Can you sh down a little bit? They're on >> your cuffs. >> Yeah, I can try my best a little bit. >> Right on the bone. >> Yeah, I set him down as best I could. Just >> In the end, George Hartler Road was placed back in custody to finish serving his original sentence to return to the rehabilitation home and is now at risk of losing his community supervision status.