So, we know that you were there at the time when Leslie I never gave a sample of DNA. That's correct. In your eyes, it's guilty until proven innocent. I get it. >> Well, honey, your DNA was in the crime scene. >> No, why would I answer? I don't want to incriminate myself. >> That's fine. We're not going to ask you any more questions. Some killers spend years believing they got away with the perfect crime. But what happens when a breakthrough shatters that silence and detectives come knocking on the door of someone who never expected to answer for what he did. >> Just remember a few I mean, like if it was somebody you dated in high school. DNA is actually a deposit of one out of one positive fingerprints. One in 700 billion chances. You were there. Oh my god. These were moments when cops surprised killers after years of hiding. We begin with a case that had been forgotten for decades, but when officers reopened the investigation, the evidence led them to someone no one would have expected, an elderly woman. So, we're going to have to end up arresting you and we're going to take you down to the jail today, okay? Two of the guns that are missing were .22 revolvers and Yvonne was killed with a .22 revolver. 37 years of living with this. Not only the family, but you and everybody involved. I can't imagine the gravity that you and others have on your shoulders all of this time. On April 23rd, 2024, officers from Arizona were reviewing cold cases when a murder that had occurred more than 40 years earlier caught their attention, mainly because it had never been solved due to a lack of solid evidence. When investigators revisited the decades-old case, the new findings led them to an elderly woman no one had ever suspected. Well, we have a warrant for your arrest. Okay? So, we're going to have to end up arresting you and we're going to take you down to the jail today, okay? I got some appointments. I got to reschedule them. Yeah, you're not going to make those appointments, unfortunately. I'm sorry. >> Yeah, what did you want? I just need you to uh you step out here for a second? Yeah, I'm going to the gym with my Hey, Mary Jo. Do you remember me? I'm Andrew. We were We were we year. I still don't know if I do or not. Okay, that's okay. I'm not very memorable, so that's okay. Well, we have a warrant for your arrest. Okay? So, we're going to have to end up arresting you, and we're going to take you down to the jail today, okay? I got some appointments I think I'm supposed to keep. You're not going to make those appointments, unfortunately. I'm sorry. >> Um I got to call my daughter then and let her know. She's right down the street. >> We can make that arrangements for you. Absolutely. Yeah. But, what We're going to have to make that call, so we can't have you make We have a We have a search warrant for your house, and this is included in the search warrant. So, we're going to secure this as well, okay? Take my phone. That's my ring. >> Oh, I thought my ring. Yeah, that's my ring. So, this This detective right here, she's going to place you in handcuffs, and she's going to search you, okay? So, you are under arrest. If you can just step down. Thank you, ma'am. Uh can I sit on something higher? My back. Well, let Let her do what she needs to do first. I'm just I'm going to cuff you in front, okay? And Mary Mary Jo, do I have your permission to access your daughter's number and call it to get so I can call your daughter? How do you want that? How do you want that handled? Okay. And is it Is she listed in your phone under a name? Uh it's in my She's got my phone. I think your watch officer doesn't hurt your wrist. Well, it's not that tight. >> Okay. Um Yeah, she's just down the street here. Okay. >> On the end. Uh I don't know the number cuz it's in my phone. She's in the park here? Yeah, it's just the end If you get my phone out, I can give you the number. You can call. Yeah. Yeah, if you don't mind, I'll I can just just you tell me where to find the number, and I'm not going to call or anything, but >> turn it on. Okay. And then swipe it. Swipe it. Okay. And um Written in the Miller, right there. Get that one. >> That's her number. Just get the phone there. >> Okay. According to police reports, on December 12th, 1985, officers responded to a call reporting that 45-years-old Yvonne Menke had been ambushed and shot three times beside her car in a parking lot. The investigation eventually led to Mary Jo Bailey, who was 81-years-old, but was 42 at the time of the crime. Authorities believed the motive was driven by jealousy over her romantic interest, Jack Owen. It was a case that left a lasting mark on the small city town. When witnesses who saw what happened that year later provided crucial testimony that would shape the direction of the case. Evidently I parked here then went around to mail something and this person was walking in that area. I guess. Then >> Okay. but a couple days ago, just out of curiosity, I stopped and looked and she really couldn't have come from that way unless she was a mountain goat. Unless that's different. That's a pretty steep bank now. Well, and you know, we have to acknowledge the possibility that it wasn't her, right? I mean, it's consistent with the description. So, why don't you just kind of tell me what So, if I'm not mistaken, you parked right around here. Is that right? >> According to this, that would be true. Okay. >> remember if I parked here or further down the street. Okay. And then you came around, got into the the leather letter box, came back. Where did you remember seeing her walk? In my mind, I see her there. There, meaning in the parking lot. So, not on the sidewalk along that edge? Kind of like where that no parking sign is, the one to the right. Okay. It's like where I guess I would have gotten out of my truck and went this way. Then went to there, but that person was there and it was like she was trying to cross the street to get to a car. I didn't remember the green Ford. So, can you take me to and I I understand that this is your memory and it's so many years ago and like you said it was 2 minutes. I get that. >> is just about Yeah, I get that. From what you remember, to the best of your memory, can you walk to where you in the area where you would have saw her? So I get a perspective of that. >> Um I guess I would Yeah. Probably Right in here? Okay. And do you remember she was she standing or was she walking? >> Walking. Walking this way? Okay. So she didn't reach the sidewalk when you saw her. She was walking towards the sidewalk. Is that accurate? >> walking towards the sidewalk and it was like she was trying to get to the other side of the street, probably crossing here. At this point, investigators began piecing together what had happened. The most compelling evidence came from witnesses who had been present on the day of the I saw her looking like she was going to Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. And I don't remember It was like she was trying to go that way, cross the street from there. Okay. So positioning her body somewhat to the left, right? Just kind of walking this way, coming from here. And what was odd about it was the timing from having heard when this happened. I mean, I must have been there within a minute or two. Yeah. Remember if she was in a hurry or just nonchalantly walking. Not wasting time. What do you mean by that? Not running, not walking. Okay. Middle part around, just she was moving along. Would you be willing to maybe uh provide me an example just if you walk roughly the pace that you remember her walking? Have you ever You have a wife? I do. Have you ever seen her when she's in a hurry in a hurry cleaning the house? Yeah. Yeah. >> Running? Yeah. But she's not walking slow. >> Okay. All right. So like So not like this, right? Um how about like this? Okay. So uh a brisk pace. Yeah, okay. Sure. Yeah. I mean, I'm not trying to put words your mouth, just trying to get a mental image of what what that description is. I I think that might fit. Okay. As the investigation progressed, officers went to speak with Mary Jo's daughter, Brenda Miller. Investigators initially suspected that Brenda might have information about what had happened, information that could help finally close the case. They also believed the suspect may have shared additional details about the with her over the years that had passed. And another special investigator named Mark Billard, do you know Mark? Or maybe know the name? I know the name. Yeah, okay. So, Mark was obviously former DA, then he was a former defense attorney. We brought him on once he retired because we wanted to give kind of a legal eye to this case. And then we were also starting to investigate it again, just new eyes, you know, technology advances over the years, and a lot of reasons why all of a sudden this kind of came the way it did. And I told your mom, and I said, "Hey, you know, Mary Jo, respectfully, uh evidence suggests you're responsible for this. And and I obviously I believe she is. I mean, there's a warrant that was generated, the judge agrees to the extent of authorizing a warrant, an arrest warrant where there's probable cause. And I told Mary Jo, I I mean, I'd met with the family, right? The our job here at this point is not to put your mom in prison for the rest of her life. I mean, that's not my goal. I don't think that's the DA's goal. The goal is closure. And the goal is just trying to put this to bed. That's really what we're trying to do. >> For all of us, right? >> Exactly. You've been living with this your entire life on the other end of it, right? People talk about the Mankins, but the you have also been affected by this your entire life. Yeah. Um and when I when we talked to Mary Jo, and I I think Steve will back me up on this, he was there, and your mom, we basically told your mom, we're like, "Hey, uh this is coming down the pipe, and we're willing to we want to work with you on this, right? And then um and nothing happened at that point, which is totally your mom's prerogative. That's totally her right at that point. But we had to continue with the investigation, right? And then we're now here we are. Um so now the next step was we you we have to bring her we're going to have to bring her back to Polk County. So just give you a little background as to how it came to this morning. At this point, Mary's ability to conceal the crime and maintain her innocence for decades seemed to be reflected in her daughter, who appeared visibly shaken upon learning the truth about what her mother had done. And I and again, I don't know how much your mom has shared with you on this whole process, but >> Not a ton, but Okay. So that's where we're at. What are what to the what to the extent of what your comfort level is, what are your thoughts? What are your feelings right now? I I don't know. I'm shocked, I guess. Yeah. Does it surprise you that we're now at this point or >> of. Okay. Okay. >> Yeah. Um >> I mean I don't know a ton. Yeah. Uh only what I finally got out, you know, the last time they talked to me uh when I got out of Roy Joy, but >> Okay. I really didn't know that much about it. I was living in the cities at the time, so Has has your mom shared much about this case with you over the years? Okay. Is that um Did she talk to you about us coming last year? >> She said you came. Okay. What did she say about that? She said I don't have anything to hide, so Okay. Uh you know, she said she went. Yeah. But other than that Yeah. Okay. Do you remember there's uh in the old police reports and again, I'm going by old work, right? I like I read old police reports and I I I have no reason to believe that they're not accurate, but at the same time if if there's something in a police report, we want that corrected, right? So, back then there was some discussion about uh uh Dan, who is your husband? >> My husband. Yeah. Um missing some guns. Like there was some guns that he thought law enforcement had seized at some point during the investigation. Do you remember anything about that? >> That's something you'd have to ask uh >> Okay. Okay. Is he Not a gun person. Has Dan talked to you? Cuz we actually have interviewed Dan somewhat recently. Did he say anything to you about that? No. Okay. As the investigation progressed, witnesses reported seeing and hearing a specific weapon on the day of the crime, one police believe was used to kill Yvonne. Detectives pressed Brenda for answers, trying to determine whether she had been hiding details that could finally solve the decades-old case. Well, one of the guns that um Well, actually two, I think. Two of the guns that are missing um were .22 revolvers. And um Yvonne was killed with a .22 revolver. And we're trying to find where that gun went, right? If there's if obviously that that would help the case. I I'm I'm interested in the truth. I mean, if even and you and us, right? So, I just want to know what happened. >> Yeah. Yeah, that's that's what we're looking for. >> And I'm still I'm still kind of in that I mean, over the years I've went through it and went through it and tried to get information and I I don't I don't know unless she had a psychotic break. It's not her. I don't know. >> Yeah. Were you as close back then to you guys? >> Yeah, right. Right. Yeah. What teen you know, young adult is not rebellious against their parents? Yeah. Okay. You Can you enlighten me a little bit more on just what what you remember back then? No, I really don't. I mean, it It was just, you know, me being young and and like, I'm not going to do what you want me to do. That kind of thing. I have a couple of those right now currently. Yeah. >> I've had some of those, too. Yeah. Okay. All right. Well, and if there's nothing to add, there's nothing to add. I mean, it sounds like you're It sounds like you're kind of in the the dark like I Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And yeah, the same as everybody else. I just want to know the truth. Yeah. At this point, after failing to definitively confirm the weapon used by the suspect, police continued pushing the investigation forward, eventually reaching another witness, Patricia, whose information proved crucial in narrowing down the case. Hi, Pam. I'm Andrew with Polk County. The little patch gave it away. Yeah, I figured I We got to go around. Yeah. No problem. He almost jumped in my car, so I got the sense come and chat with you a little bit regarding the case and So, I This is an old report that I have to go on that one of the officers way back in 2009, I think, filed. Yeah, this is like 38 years ago. I'm >> Yeah. going to be 66. Well, that's why I always put the report out there first, just to kind of break the ice a little bit. Yep, I do remember them coming here, but I wouldn't let them in without a search warrant. Oh, sure. Um the reason was my stepfather, we had taken his guns. Mhm. And I remember he had a sawed-off shotgun, and I know they're illegal. I'm like, "No, I'm not letting the cops discover a sawed-off shotgun in my bedroom." Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, I just told my sister, you know, you get a warrant, you can come. But, I didn't know what my brother had here. >> Sure. Um my brother, I mean, that's why I said we had guns here that were and he had left some here. What he had, you could lay me 10 guns, I couldn't tell you what's what. Mhm. Um we did have I know that I both agreed that I remember that. The only things I knew that were I think were 22s were a pair of like pearl handled Okay. which my husband his friend has them. He's going to try and clean them up. He's had them for years. >> Mhm. But um Okay. So so going back to when this happened, this was in December of '85. My understanding is because Danny and Brenda were in the cities and he had They had just moved down there. >> moved, right? Patricia's testimony became the breakthrough investigators had been waiting for, suggesting that this was not a crime of impulse, but one that had been carefully orchestrated. I think they started dating in June. Yeah, okay. >> just moved down there. >> Okay. And and I don't from what I remember they didn't want the guns in in Minnesota or maybe it was just a part of the moving process, right? >> he moved, he was living with my brother-in-law, which was Ronald Overgaard Johansen. Mhm. He was living there, so when he moved we just said, "Well, bring what you need to here until you guys get settled." Sure. Okay. And do you remember about how many guns he would have brought over from there? >> remember any guns except then my husband, you know, had those two which were years later he's going, "What does your brother want to do with these two pearl handled guns?" And I'm like, I don't know. He was all I don't know. He talked to Danny and he goes, "I'm going to see if John Gearman, this is his good friend, see if John can fix them up. Maybe they're Mhm. you know, get them able to shoot. Do you remember if they were revolvers or if they were just regular >> They weren't, you know, Okay. Um do you remember if they were a semi-automatic or semi-automatic or revolver? >> they they looked like old fashioned guns. Like Wallace guns? Like is it a 22? Yeah. Okay. During her initial statement, Mary Jo acknowledged owning a pistol matching the caliber in the homicide. Mary claimed to have sold the weapon days prior to the murder to Swartz's wife, but investigators later determined that the alleged transaction had never occurred. >> The story that she told me about this guy in this boat It had to be her husband. It has to be. >> Yeah, I think it was. >> Because she told me he got the store. They had a leather store or something. Yep. And she kept the house. Yep. And he moved somewhere with another girl. Or something. Yeah, I don't know about the girl part of it, but I know that he had a store well that some property was >> Right, right, right. Yeah, yeah. So it has to be him because this other thing it can't be because now I I watch the TV or the YouTube and all that kind of stuff. So apparently somebody got shot somewhere. Mhm. Whatever triangle thing, right? >> Yep. That is not what we talked about cuz I told you like no, he had a leather store or something. >> Yeah, yeah, I think yeah, I agree I believe it's So so you know And and to be honest with you I trying to really remember how it was. And honestly we bought that gun. That 22 for 400 my wife bought that gun. For $400 from From Mary Jo? From Mary Jo. Okay. So how did Mary Jo get the 38 revolver that I think well I think that they I I think they I I don't think they traded. I think she didn't have a gun so I think maybe I have no idea if it was given to her by by my wife or me or Okay. Or I don't remember that one. But I know that I have all the guns that Because that gun that that that you're potentially talking about >> Mhm. Cuz I don't know if that's the gun you're talking about, but I have all the guns that I that you had. Sure. Yeah. At this point, the revelation about the weapon became a turning point in the case, which had been reopened in 2024 after decades of silence. At first, investigators had little to work with, just one lingering clue left at the scene, a single footprint. But, the thing that stuck in my head that was missing were the boots. They were supposedly had the moon boots or something, and there was boots missing. The boots were missing, and I can't remember what else right now what was said. Would those be the Would those be the moon boots from your mom's apartment? No. This was 12 years later. They said the evidence was missing because um No. They were Our understanding was that they were the boots that matched the prints. Oh, okay. That were going away from That were going away from the apartment that day. That was our understanding of what that was. That's what we had been told the boots were. >> were not That's not the case. Okay. Well, that's what we were told that they had the boots is what we were told not long afterwards, and they had found the boots supposedly in Mary Jo's stuff is what we were hearing. But Yeah. Okay. So, that's So, the you know, randomly throughout the years, people have come and approached you and said these things. Have they ever been able to provide you an original source as to who they got the information from? >> Well, well, Chuck and whoever he was with Well, they saw it. They said they were there and saw it. They were at the scene >> And And they were at Vince's supposedly when the Something about the gun they They saw the gun in there and said it was to go to the lawyer. Oh, okay. And that's That's You know what I mean? So, that's the That's the gun. What about the boots? Did they ever give any The boots, I don't know that. After 39 years, officers had all the evidence against Mary Jo. Mary seemed to accept her fate, acknowledging that there were no remaining avenues to avoid accountability. We absolutely do not have any desire to slam our fist on the table and say, "We want her to go to prison for the rest of her life." As a matter of fact, prison, for all I know, is isn't even on the table. I don't know. That's not my deal. I'm not an attorney. I'm an investigator. I can just tell you what the conversations are. Our number one goal is that we want closure. That's it. 37 years I've lived with this. Not only the family, but you and everybody involved. I can't imagine the gravity that you and others have on your shoulders all of this time. It It's got to be insane. And I know that because I've handled other cases similar to this. The end of the day, closure is closure. So, our proposal to the DA's office is to kind of almost give you a couple options, and I want you to think about it. You don't have to answer. Just giving it to you, okay? Option number one is get a hold of an attorney. Talk to the attorney. Have your Your attorney contact our office. And then some back channel stuff happens, whatever attorney you And the case goes the way the case goes. And that could be some sort of global resolution on probation. I don't know. That's not my deal. I'm not a lawyer. My My point is, you know, if this was a different scenario and someone was being charged with homicide, the Marshall Service would be coming. People would will put in a the you know, in a van, brought to a jail, waiting extradition, going from jail to jail to jail until you get back to Wisconsin, probably given high bond, and you never know, you might never see the light of day again, right? This isn't one of those scenarios. We're not proposing any of that. Okay? We're proposing resolution, and we're proposing closure. That's what we're proposing. If option A doesn't work, and if option A doesn't happen for whatever reason, then the only option we have left is option B, which is what I just described. That might happen, too. But I want you to know that that's not our goal. Our goal is option A. Our goal is to get this resolved as quietly and as maybe as quietly as possible. Let's stick with quietly, okay? So that closure at the end of the day occurs for everybody involved. You've lived a great life. Nobody is denying that. You have You talked about your grandkids. I've done enough research to know that you're not public enemy number one. It's not like you're out there causing any problems, okay? That That goes a long way, right? That goes a long way. People made a mistake at one point in their life. That's a mistake. Can't go back on it. Wish we could. It is what it is. But there's a big difference between someone who makes one mistake in life and someone who makes a mistake, and then the next week they make another, and then the next week they make another, and then they continue down that road. Well, that's not you. At this point, officers explained the possible consequences to her. There would be nothing that could reduce her sentence, a reality that could cost her the rest of her life behind bars. And And I can't elaborate more on the evidence, only to tell you, face-to-face, eye-to-eye, we have more evidence than what we had in the in 1985. And to the point where the district attorney's office is ready to charge. Okay. And that's a pretty high burden. You know, so we want to find a way to get this resolved. Okay? All right? Um certainly you can elaborate if you want or tell me what you're thinking. Um I'm here to help. >> think I need to talk to some legal advice. I I don't know. >> Sure. Sure. I understand. >> confident either way. Yeah. I get that. >> Can I lay it on I just really need to know. Yeah. Yep. Absolutely. Absolutely. And that is You're right. Mark, I don't know if you know Mark much, but Mark is a former DA and defense attorney. That's kind of what I bring to the table in this partnership. >> Yeah, that's why we brought him in and why. One of the many reasons why we brought Mark and Bob, other than he's he's handsome and intelligent. Um but Mark brings the legal aspect of it, right? And and he knows way more about what I just talked to you about. >> Oh, yeah. I'm sure he does. So, Mark, if you want if I didn't effectively >> Yeah. Let let let me Let me just ask you this, Mary Jo. Now, we don't know for sure what the DA is going to do, but we do know that that that he's close and he's made some representations. >> In the end, 81-year-old Mary Jo Bailey was arrested and charged with first-degree murder. In May 2024, a jury found her guilty. The judge sentenced her to life in prison, meaning she must serve at least 20 years before even being eligible for parole. Next up, when police finally caught up with their suspect years after the brutal crime, they did not expect to encounter someone so guarded and determined to avoid the consequences. Do you recall back in 2001, Leslie Preer? Yes, that she was Yeah. From the crime scene, the DNA that was taken, we actually have a sample of your DNA. And it was compared to the crime scene DNA, and it matched. I don't I mean, what do you think happened? I don't know. I can't verify. I don't know. On June 18th, 2024, officers from Montgomery County Department of Police in Maryland revealed new developments in a murder case that had haunted investigators for more than two decades. The case involved the death of a woman inside her residence in 2001. Initially, suspicion fell on her husband, but it was someone who was with him that day who placed the first call to police. Hello, what is your emergency? Um, I'm at Drummond, Chevy Chase. I I work for a company and we didn't hear have a call from um, an employee. We just walked in the door, her husband and I, and there's blood in the foyer. Mhm. And looks like something possibly happened. Are you you're not in the house anymore, are you? I'm in the We're in the house right now. Uh, the husband's looking around. Are you with the husband? I'm with the husband, yes. When was the last time you The last time the husband saw her was 7:45 this morning. She have a car or anything? No, she was going to walk to the bus. Is there a lot of blood? I Well, it looks like there's possibly a a struggle, a couple things knocked down. Can I ask you guys to step out of the house? Sure. Investigations later revealed that the husband quickly became the primary suspect amid reports of serious marital conflict. But when forensic experts analyzed the biological evidence, the case took an unexpected turn. The DNA didn't belong to him. It belonged to someone else whose profile didn't exist in any database at the time. For over two decades, Leslie Piers remained unsolved. Then in 2025, cutting-edge forensic technology changed everything, producing a long-awaited DNA breakthrough. Hands up! What's wrong with you? You're not listening. I got one already done. What's going on? What is this about? Got a warrant, bro. Listen to us for somebody gets hurt, man. Let's all stick with the plan. Yep. Got a warrant. You getting nervous? Sorry, yep. My bad. What about my phone? We'll get your phone. Okay, grab his stuff. Yep. You can leave his coffee. Come on, man. Walk. Let me reach in my Can Can you let my girlfriend know that Yeah, yeah, yeah. We will. We will. Uh can you tell me what this is about? >> Yeah, you have a warrant. For what? I don't know. Have you done anything recently? No. All right. We'll just wait. I'm hot. I got legs. Uh I got You're being audio and video and visually recorded, okay? Come here for now. Let's get him a good search. Sit here. Spread your legs. Stop. We're the US Marshals. We're the Yeah, well, you got to listen to what we say. That's how people get hurt. You know what I'm saying? I ain't trying to get hurt and I ain't trying to hurt you, but you got to listen to what we say. All right. Of course. Okay. You can't retreat. We're in the same You can't pretend just cuz you look like a businessman that you ain't going to hurt anybody. All right. I understand. So, we didn't hurt you, but I ain't trying to get hurt either. You know what I'm saying? I understand. Okay. Nothing personal. It's just the way it goes. Okay. Okay. This guy just ran over here. I think so. You got anything on you? No, nothing. Zero. Is that where you work? Yes. >> Keep this with you. What is it? It's a It's called a stealth monitor. I mean, what is it exactly? It's a a security monitor. Oh, okay. Nothing. As the investigation progressed, the newly obtained DNA results reignited suspicions surrounding a former person of interest, the ex-boyfriend of Leslie Priore's daughter, who had previously been ruled out in the early stages of the case. With advanced forensic analysis now available, investigators took a closer look at him once again. The suspect was soon identified as 44-year-old Eugene Glygor. Investigators believe that following the end of their relationship, Eugene may have struggled to accept the breakup. How old are you? Uh 40 44. 44. Okay. You got a warrant. My boss is going to tell you everything about it, guy. It's all I'll tell you he'll give you a copy of it. Okay. And we'll figure out what we're going to do with the magistrate wants to keep you or or let you go. Okay. So, my boss will come here and tell you what the warrant's about. Okay. And then we'll go from there, all right? Okay. And you got You can ask me any questions, but I can't tell you what the warrant's about cuz we're the we're the arrest team. Okay. I don't even read these warrants. Okay. We just know you got a warrant. You could just let my girlfriend know that. >> Yeah. Sure. That girl that came out for a walk with the uh No. No, she's in the apartment right now. Earlier, did she come out for a walk? Um What's her name? >> Yeah, we saw her earlier. What's her name? Laura. Yeah. What apartment is she in? Uh 201. Laura in 201. We'll tell her. We'll let her know. On my right hand, this is really cutting off the blood. >> Okay. We'll adjust it. We'll adjust it. Change it. Just a sec. Okay. Hold on. They're not made for comfort, but we'll we'll make it I got I got it. Yeah, we'll make it we'll we'll ease it up on it. Yeah, no problem, man. I ain't got nothing personal wrong with you. Yeah. Do you go to the office or what do you do? >> no, I work from home. Okay. What were you doing out here just chilling out in the fresh air? >> Just having a smoke. >> your hands. Okay. Okay. So, you didn't know anything about this warrant? No. Okay. Our boss will tell you everything about it. It's nothing big. I'm going to take and shuffle down here. So, we need to ask you a couple of questions, you know. Wait right here. Right here for a sec. Did you go to college after high school? You ready? Went to college, but not Mike's ready? All right. Oops. All right. How you doing? All right, man. So, I'm about to do one more. You told me you already searched it, right? I'm about to do one more search here just to be on the safe side of caution, okay? Thank you. Someone is watching traffic for you. Someone is watching traffic. Uh Yeah, we can we can take it. Thanks. What's that? It looks like you got a finger in there as well. It's pretty loose. With the evidence in hand, detectives brought Eugene in for interrogation. At first, Eugene appeared relaxed, even friendly, answering questions without hesitation. But the atmosphere shifted when investigators began outlining the forensic evidence. All right, I'm going to read this to you. If you want me to stop or repeat anything, just interrupt me, okay? You have the right now and at any time to remain silent. Anything you say may be used against you. You have the right to a lawyer before and during any questioning. If you cannot afford a lawyer, one will be appointed for you. You have the right to be taken promptly before a district court commissioner, who is a judicial officer not connected with the police. A commissioner will inform you of each offense you are charged with and the penalties for each offense. Provide you with a written copy of the charges against you, advise you of your right to counsel, make a pre-trial custody determination, and advise you whether you have a right to a preliminary hearing before a judge at a later time. Do you understand what I've just said? >> Mhm. Okay. All right. So, I'm going to let you look over this again. I just need you to initial each of those lines and sign right there. And that's only saying that we read this to you and that you understand. Okay. So, now that that's out of the way, we are from Montgomery County. We actually work in the cold case unit. Um we investigate crimes that have been unsolved for quite a period of time. We investigate homicides and rape. >> At this point, when investigators began asking about his past relationship with the victim, Eugene seemed visibly nervous. He hesitated before answering and appeared uncomfortable discussing his history with Leslie. Investigators noted his difficulty in speaking about their relationship, a reaction that drew particular attention. So, um we were working on a case that came from Chevy Chase. And um when we were going through the case file, your name was in there um as someone that was related to the family, whether if we have a big list of people, but um friends, family, something like that. So, um do you recall back in 2001 Leslie Preer? Yes, that she was murdered. Yeah. >> Yes. Okay. So, that's the case that we are investigating. Um so, I you went to BCC with her daughter at the time. Is that correct? Okay. And what was your relationship with Maureen, the daughter? Um we had dated. Okay. And when did you guys date? Do you remember years? >> I don't think exact dates, I'm not entirely sure. Um Were you in high school, or was it after high school? >> high school. Um Yeah, I'm not I'm not exactly sure. Maybe like 1994 to 1997 or something around there. >> Okay. And from your dates of birth I can see you're a little bit younger than Lauren. So, was she already graduated from high school or were you guys both still in high school when you guys were dating? We were both in high school. She had finished high school. Um and I believe we had dated for a few months while she was in college, but um but that was it. Okay. Um so, back then when you guys were dating, where did you live? Um I lived in uh with my um with my mother in Rockville. Okay. As the questioning became increasingly detailed, detectives asked about his father's residence at the time, a location situated near where the crime had occurred. Eugene seemed reluctant to give a direct answer. Investigators observed the shift in his tone and pacing. Do you remember the address or what street or anything? Uh wish I did. I I don't. Okay. Um and you said you lived with your mother. Were your parents separated? >> Yeah. Okay. Where did your dad live? Uh he lived in um in uh in Chevy Chase in uh yeah. Do you know the street or Yeah, Brookside Drive. Brookside Drive. Okay. Um and so, you and Lauren had dated well before her mother was Do you remember um like were you still in touch with Lauren when this stuff happened to her mom? Um no, we had broken up a couple years before um at least. Um maybe longer. I'm not sure. And um believe I reached out just to send my regards and um maybe saw her a couple times and um but that was it. Okay. Do you remember how you found out about it? Um I remember I was at work and I believe she had actually told me that she had come into where I was working at a restaurant and she had had told me that what had happened. >> was that you? Um it was uh a restaurant called Blacks. Okay. In Bethesda. Okay. Um let me see. So, you guys were just kind of cordial at the time, but you weren't really close. It's not like you guys kept touch that much. >> Correct. >> Okay. According to his testimony, Eugene claimed he had minimal contact with Leslie's family. Yet, during the interview, there were moments when he appeared unsure of his own words, offering details that seemed inconsistent. When you guys were dating, how close were you with the family? Like, did you spend a lot of time at their house or did you know them real well? I knew the family. I you know, definitely spent time. She spent time at my house. I've spent time at her house. Um yeah. Yeah, for sure. Mhm. So, how were you close with her parents? I mean, I wouldn't say close with them. I don't know how much um I I don't know if close would be the right word. Um but they were friendly with me and and nice to me. So, um yeah, I mean Okay. Um let me see. Were you at her house a lot of the time? Um Or did you guys spend more time at your house or what did you guys do when you >> it was a mix. My house, her house, go being out. I mean, young and teenagers, so there was, you know, going out and Okay. Yeah. When you say your house, was it your mom's house or your dad's house or both? >> Um, I probably my mom's house more so because I I lived with her. Okay. Um, when you found out about Lauren's mom, do you remember who you were dating at the time or were you dating anybody? Um, I don't recall who I was dating at the time, but um Yeah, no, I'm I'm not 100% certain. I mean, I had been dating, but I'm not sure. Okay. And so, you were working at a bar. Um, what else was going on in your life at that time? Um I I can't recall. I mean Were you working or were you in school or college or I worked. I think I was in taking classes in college at the time. At this point, investigators continued pressing forward, carefully observing how far he would go in his responses, but once it became clear why he had been brought in, his reaction spoke volumes. wasn't in touch, so I don't Okay. So, you were never like dating Lauren's mom or anything like that behind the scenes? No. Okay. I I just I wasn't I wasn't ever in touch. You know that. Okay. Um, so the reason that we wanted to talk to you is because a lot of the people whose names are in the case file, they've been interviewed throughout the years and they've been asked to give DNA samples to compare to DNA from the crime scene. And most of the pretty much everybody that's in the list has been talked to, has been eliminated as a suspect. Your name was actually in the file, but they never reached out to you or never spoke to you for some reason. So, that's why we wanted to reach out to you and see if you remember or recall anything about the time when Leslie was told anything that you remember about your life at the time that like could be relevant, any relationships you had with the family or anything like that. I I really don't recall. Okay. Um so from the crime scene, we have DNA from the person who was there when Leslie died. So there's Leslie's blood all over the place, obviously. Um but then there's also another DNA profile that was picked up from the crime scene. And we had put that into CODIS, our database from the national CODIS um DNA index system, and it has never hit. So whoever was there, whoever's DNA was also on the scene, has never been arrested. And that's why we were going through doing all these elimination DNA samples to find out, you know, okay, well, this person couldn't have done it cuz we matched the DNA to it. Um so we realized that they never talked to you, never did anything, and we wanted to find out more about you, and if there was any kind of situation where you could have been at the house at that time. By then, Eugene May had still believed there was a way out. He started asking questions of his own, seemingly trying to gauge how much investigators knew about his possible involvement. >> Well, because we needed to talk to you in a controlled environment, and because there's a little bit more to it than what we've told you so far. Could Could you tell me? >> Well, we're getting there. I'm trying to give you an opportunity to be a little bit forthcoming before we >> I mean, I I I'm I feel very I feel a little bit trapped here, like Well, you're under arrest, so you should feel trapped, okay? Right. And so I I think, you know, I I I mean, probably asking for a lawyer is my best course of action at this point. Um Okay. instead of doing any more discussing or talking about it, it just doesn't seem I don't understand, so I'd like to have somebody >> we're trying to talk to you about it. >> And And there's two of you and one of me, so I I feel a little outnumbered. Um and I probably would need some type of representation if I am under arrest, as you said, which I which I am. Yeah, okay. And so I I think that having a lawyer would be the best for me and and my interest at this point. >> fine. And we don't have to ask you any more questions, but we are going to just tell you some stuff. Okay? Um so, from the crime scene, the DNA that was taken, we actually have a sample of your DNA. And it was compared to the crime scene DNA. And it matched. So, we know that you were there at the time when Leslie died. >> But, I never gave a sample of DNA. That's correct. We obtained a sample from a discarded water bottle that you drank out of. So, you were followed and we collected it after you discarded it into the trash and it was swabbed and it was compared. So, your DNA matches the crime scene DNA. I don't know what to say. I don't know not I have no recollection. I have no memory. I have no I I don't know what to say. As the interview progressed, Eugene's demeanor raised further questions. Rather than directly rejecting the accusations, he continued to insist that he did not recall what had taken place. The pattern of vague responses was difficult to ignore. Okay. Well, that's why we wanted to talk to you to find out if there's any other explanation. But, we can't ask you any more questions if you want a lawyer present. Yeah, I I think I should have a lawyer present. I just don't know know what to do or say. It doesn't make sense to me, so I don't know. I don't know what to do. Do you have a lawyer that you I don't know. Okay. I have to call? I don't know. I don't know. I'd probably call my girlfriend and ask her to help. I don't know. I I don't know. You know, we wanted to try to see if there was another angle or another side to this story and I mean you know, we know that >> DNA be there? That's what we're trying to figure out. >> So, I don't know. I I I don't know, you know? I mean, I was in the house, but it was years before, you know, when I dated her. Um I I don't know. I wish I could tell you. I don't know. At this point, after being confronted, the suspect seemed to have an emotional outburst. However, investigators did not seem convinced by the reaction. Eugene's sudden shift in behavior intensified the scrutiny surrounding him, even without shedding a single tear. This is all very bewildering, very strange. I was Is there more that I can you tell me? Is there anything more? I mean, we've told you plenty. We We can't continue to ask you questions. If you want to keep talking, we can. But if you want to stop, you have to let us know for sure. Yeah, I We can tell you more about, you know, what we think happened. I don't I mean, what do you think happened? I don't know. I can't verify. I don't know. I don't recall. I don't have any memory. I didn't do anything that you're talking about, so I don't know. And I don't feel like I can I don't know how to answer or go into I don't want to to incriminate myself with questions. You guys are professionals. I'm not. I I don't know. I I really do think I need an attorney. I need to use the phone and I need to call someone and I need to I need legal representation before I respond to anything else. I I Okay. That's fine. Um we're not going to ask you any more questions. There's no tears coming out of your face. I'm very dry right now. >> dry? I'm very dry. I'm parched. I'm dehydrated. You can probably see my eyes are bloodshot red because I'm just tired and drained. I don't know what's going on. You want me to drink water so I can tear like what No, I don't want you to tear. I just don't want you to tear. >> What are you trying to say? I'm just trying to say that this seems a little put on. Are you kidding me? Are you kidding me? No. Oh my god, you're so full of it. You're you're just you're after This is This is the police. This is Yes. With each stage of the interrogation, officers perceived growing inconsistencies in Eugene's statements. In a calm and controlled tone, he claimed he had no explanation for how his blood could have been found at the crime scene. Detectives noted what they described as a detached demeanor. While he maintained that he was a victim of circumstances, Honey, your DNA was in the crime scene. That's why like and there's a reason There's there's just There's There's There's due process, right? Due process. So you're saying that So you're saying I'm guilty before I've even been put into a court of law like I'm saying there's probable cause to believe that you were there when >> I think what you were saying was the contrary to that. So okay. But I don't remember. I don't know. I don't No. I don't know. What we're trying to figure out is how your blood was at the scene that day. If there's an alternate explanation, that's why we wanted to talk to you today, okay? So, I feel like you just need to take a breath for a second. Okay? That's what we're trying to figure out. Why is your blood there? Could it have been, you know, an interrupted burglary? Did something happen where you didn't expect anybody to be home? I I have no idea. I don't remember. I don't recall. Again, you're asking me questions that I don't know I'm not asking you a question. You did. You just asked me a question, and I asked for legal representation, and you guys are very smart smug looking at me like I'm like I've done something, and of course it's innocent until proven guilty, right? Am I wrong or am I right? >> You are entitled to your due process, absolutely. >> This is insane. At this point, within minutes, his demeanor shifted, moving from defensive to controlled and composed. Detectives noted the abrupt change, describing it as calculated and deliberate. >> I don't I I really don't know what else to say other than please allow me to you you Sure. You you read it to me, right? That I am allowed legal representation. >> Absolutely. >> This would be the best thing for me to do right now. I I don't understand. >> more questions. You said you wanted to know more, so we were telling you more. I'm sorry. I just I'm I'm really on edge and I can see. upset and Yeah. Yeah. Okay. You would like legal representation. That is absolutely a right. We will not ask you any more questions, all right? And what how do I go about doing this? What's the >> done talking to you. They're going to walk you back over to processing, and once they are done, I don't know if they've done fingerprints and all that stuff with Do Once they're done with all that, and you meet with I think in DC you're going to still meet with a commissioner and be charged with this paperwork for this or be served with it, and then you'll have an opportunity to make whatever phone calls you need to make. Okay. I believe that's the process. We're in DC, so I'm not super That's how it is in in Maryland. Okay. All right? Okay. And then at some point you will be taken back over to Maryland. Mhm. And um then you will figure out what they're going to do in terms of an attorney cuz you're in DC now, so I don't know if you need a different lawyer unless they're both Maryland and DC bar certified. I don't know. I don't know how that goes, but they'll explain it all to you when you get over there. And if at any time you want to talk to us with your lawyer present, we can make arrangements for that. Okay? I just don't know what to do. I'm I'm really confused, and I'm really at a loss, and I I don't know I don't have any recollection of being involved with any of this. I'm You keep saying you don't remember, and you don't have any recollection, >> Well, but if somebody was I mean, not involved, it would be an adamant I didn't do this. >> Oh, I didn't do it. >> By then, it seemed clear that his initial excuses were no longer effective. His approach changed. He began implying that personal reasons might have played a role. I've been an alcoholic in recovery for years now. I've been sober for years, and there are many, many times in which it earlier life wasn't great. You know, abusive father, uh uh issues that you know, but at the same time, this isn't something that I I I know I didn't do it. I know I wasn't involved, and I just don't understand how this has come to this. I really wish I knew, and I really wish I could tell you some give you some answers, and give you more feedback from an honest perspective because I just don't know. I just don't know. I don't I don't know either. That's why we wanted to talk to you. I don't know why your blood is there also. I don't know I don't know what to say or what to do or what to think right now. >> Okay. I'm really >> Well, after you talk to your attorney, if you want to talk to us again, my name and information is on the paperwork that you're going to get. You can have your attorney reach out to Montgomery County. He'll be able to figure out or he or she, whoever, will be able to figure out how to get in touch with us. Okay? >> Okay. All right. Even then, Eugene showed little sign of surrender. He pushed boundaries, challenging yet another procedural line. There were no tears, no visible panic, only firm demands delivered in a steady voice. The emotional outbursts were gone. What remained was a colder, more calculated presence in the room. Who is it you're trying to call? I'm trying to call my girlfriend so she can try to find me a lawyer. I mean, I don't have any lawyer's numbers, so I would need to Okay. So if you want to continue talking to us with a lawyer, that's one thing. If you want to just find a lawyer, then you can do that after they serve you with the paperwork and everything. So, is that What do you What do you mean? I'm a little confused. >> So, you can Are you trying to get a lawyer to sit with you while we talk to you or do you just want to talk to a lawyer and then >> I I I want to talk to my girlfriend and let her know what's happening and she doesn't has no idea. We live together. Okay. So, you can make that phone call after you're served with the paperwork and everything. >> But but in addition, I need I was I need to call I need a number for a lawyer. I don't have a number for a lawyer, so I was going to call her and ask for her assistance with it. When you get over to the jail, you'll be able to make that phone call. I thought you were calling a lawyer right now. I'm sorry. That was my mistake. But I'm calling somebody that will call a lawyer for me. And she just mentioned it's up to you for me to make a phone call. >> Sir, what we're trying to figure out is if you want the lawyer to be here while we're talking to you and questioning you or you just want to >> Yes, I would. So, do you want to continue talking to us or do you just want to talk to a lawyer? >> with a lawyer present, yeah, sure. I'd be happy to, but I need to understand my rights and and, you know, have some representation instead of me being alone, you know, two against one is not Okay. Well, and you can also have that opportunity when you get to the jail. In the end, on May 7th, 2025, Eugene Gullygor was charged with second-degree without any reason for committing the crime. His only claim being the influence of substances and alcohol. Finally, he was sentenced to 22 years in prison. Moving to the case, what began as a simple welfare check quickly unraveled into the discovery of a years-long deception, a desperate attempt to avoid facing criminal charges. The way you give me comes back to guy. Gregory Stallings. So, who are you? You're Gregory, you're just not I've not committed crimes since 1982. And they're going to give me back and send me through the system. They're going to go, "Oh, we got him again. Oh, we got him. We got him." Guys, they've been pumping my for 30, 41 years now. On June 26th, 2024, officers in Iowa were conducting a routine welfare check when they noticed a cyclist riding without lights on his bike, something that isn't even illegal in the state. What seemed like a simple encounter over a minor issue, however, would soon uncover a criminal secret buried for more than 30 years. You got to have a rear reflector on your bike, my man, if you're going to ride on the roadway. So, what's up? Oh, okay. So, and then if you're going to ride at night, you need a front light. I'm sure you know that, but you got an idea on you real quick just so I can say I stopped to talk with you. You got it with me. Okay. Can I get your uh Great Stallings. Great Stallings is your name? Great Stallings. Gregory, g r e g o r y, and how do you spell Stallings? s t a l l i n s. >> s. What's your date of birth? Uh All right, bear with me, buddy. I'll get you out of here as fast as I can. 4150 4170 trip. Copy. Copy here in the park. I'll just state the activity. Or if you say the new message. I told him that just concerned about somebody. When officers entered the name he provided into the system, nothing came up. At first, it didn't seem alarming. It could have been a simple spelling error. But when a second attempt returned the same result, the situation quickly became more concerning. >> Hang tight for me. I'll get you out of here as fast as I can. All right. Yeah. 7-day old checking in now. Copy here. Does anybody have eyes on the 4150 that actually has radio? Copy. Look all cylinder basic. Greg, I'm still not getting that back. Are you sure that's right? Sure it is. Could be his I've been a long time since I had to work. Yeah. I've been a long time since I had to work. Yeah. I do. Can you run one for me? Last name Stalin, Sam, Tom, Adam, Lincoln, Lincoln, Ida, Nora, Sam. First name Gregory, George, Robert, Edward, George, Ocean, Robert, Young. The reason why is because I hate if you're riding your bike and someone rear-ends you. >> Oh, yeah. And then they can try they can hide the point of impact because the reflector. And I hate that cuz it's like no, it's I understand that. Copy. Can we try a search? And I'm also with our traffic units. I do all our accident investigations. So, whenever bikes are involved it almost always is way worse than >> Yeah, they usually hit you from behind. Yep. That's the way it I just can't let you go at this point till I verify who you are. So, Oh, that's cool. Just going by the ID. There you go. The man introduced himself as Gregory Stalin, but when officers attempted to verify the name, nothing appeared in the system. What had started as a routine welfare check suddenly took a different turn. Something wasn't adding up and officers began to suspect the elderly man was concealing more than he was letting on. Where do you live at? Down in the woods, back way back over that way in the woods. Nice. You like your spot back there? >> Oh, yeah. I've been there for a while. Yeah. Just enough to be secluded a little bit, hopefully. Yeah. Unless they come walking up the trail or what. Yeah. So, Greg, to make sure I have his spot where your first name is g r e g o r y. Last name is what? s t a l l i n s Okay. And your date of birth is? Okay. And have you ever had an Iowa driver's license before? >> Uh, no. Not here. What was the driver's license you have had? Uh, Florida? Maybe? Cuz I haven't had a driver's license in years. I haven't. Copy. Can you try running him through Florida? What's your What's your middle name? Uh W. W? W. Middle initial W as in William? How long you been living up here then? You haven't tried to get an ID card or anything yet? >> No. No? Never had. Never had. I guess there's no reason to yet. Cuz I'm not driving or anything. >> Yeah, that makes sense. At this point officers had already sensed something was off. But when they started asking deeper questions about his identification, Gregory's composure began to crack. Nervousness replaced calm and his defensive reactions only fueled their suspicions. Try to think for me. Where was the last place you had an ID then? I know up here at the Human Services they know me. Human Services know you? >> Right here with me every morning. Yeah, I go down there every morning putting stuff out. We can go right up there you can help me. I would Just think of this What state? I can get you through any state even if it's really old so I It's been I know it's been a while. Just try to Yeah, try to think for me. I really can't sorry. Where else have you lived? I lived here a long time. I lived in Florida for a bit. I lived really long different places before I Yeah. Where did you grow up I guess? Where would you turn 16 at? Uh my dad was in the military. See. Could have been uh Illinois. Could have been Illinois. We were born all over the United States. >> Yeah. 4423 Can I lock my bike up? Last one, can you try him through Illinois? Should you lock your bike up? Yeah. I'm not going to take you. I I'd rather just I don't think there's a reason for me to take you. I just need to figure out who you are and then I thought I said we can go right down here to Human Services. Yeah, but that doesn't help me at all. Like you could have tell them that's your name forever. You know. They might even have a copy of my social security or my lawyer used it there years ago. Yeah. I know they took it to the beer plant house. I was going to come down there every morning. Put the stuff on the table. After several minutes, officers let Gregory go. But back inside their patrol car, they decided to double-check the system. Once again, his name returned no results. What had seemed like a minor irregularity was now becoming something far more suspicious. Homeless, dude. I can't freaking find anything on him and he's like lived in like 19 different states and doesn't He had got ran over by a car, supposedly, a couple years ago. So, his memory's not great. He gave me his social, his name and date of birth, like He's going to IV now, so we can find him later, but >> At this point, officers decided to stop him a second time. At first, the conversation appeared routine, just another exchange of basic information. But when Gregory began offering new details, it became the story was shifting and the lie wouldn't last much longer. But they came back with no nothing at all. And it came back with I was going to stop on my way back when I got done. Yeah. Give me his social and go in there and see what it So, what we're going to do for now while I keep investigating this is I'm going to take a picture of you and send it to our guy who has facial wreck. So, will you pull your hat off and your glasses off? All right. Okay. Just have a seat for me, okay? I called dispatch already, too, and verified with him on the way over if I found him and he's okay with doing it. He gave me a new date of birth, so I'm going to try it, but it's only a couple days off, so I'd feel like Clear would have been able to pull that up. So, and both the socials he gave me come back to other people. One of them's deceased, the other one's a lady, so I don't think either of those are you. Try to I know you had that brain injury that we talked about, but can you try your best? Can you think of a social? Cuz here's the issues. I don't want to arrest you for the um for stopping you without the rear reflector cuz I could told you I just stopped people to let them know cuz I don't want it to be your fault when you get hit. But, if I can't verify who you are and the info you did give me comes back to nobody, and in fact it comes back to other people, that's the bigger issue. You know what I mean, buddy? Yeah. It sounds good, yeah, cuz he gave us two socials that don't that come back to a girl and a deceased person. So, yeah. We're good. We'll be ex here for a bit. No checks. Partner, I I just met you. How How'd you say your first name? Your first and last name? Gregory. Yep. Spell it. >> e g o r y Stahli, s t a l l i n g. And your date of birth was what? You either or the What year? So, you got that? Yeah. Pop, can't find Diddy's and he's locked out of his account. So, he's trying to find Diddy. He also messaged Feely. So, Feely's going to Feely He's waiting for Feely to message back. So, which would be Yeah. With each new piece of evidence, the case against him strengthened. Officers raised the pressure, confronting him with inconsistencies. He continued to lie, unwavering. His determination and his version of the truth revealed a level of audacity that surprised even seasoned investigators. All right, brother. Time to be honest with me, okay? So, the info you gave me comes back to that dead guy. Gregory Solomon is dead. And the social, right? And the social, yeah. Got it, good. Yeah. So, who are you? I'm You're Gregory, you're just not dead? I'm not dead. Yeah. And could it just be cuz I haven't been on anything for a long, long time? They don't just declare people deceased cuz they haven't heard from them in a little bit. I'm dead. I don't know. And I'll move my bike over there if you're going to take me in. If Yeah, if if I'm going to arrest you, we're still doing a couple of things cuz I'm trying not to arrest you. Gregory's I said 2000 is the year of the death. Did you go Did you go missing in that year? Did you I haven't been missing for a long time. >> Well, would someone report you missing and then they just declare you >> know. I don't talk to my people in a long, long, long, long time. Okay. I'm not talking to nobody in my family. I think I'm going to call Countryman and get it approved by him, I think, whichever direction. Yeah, I I I I I don't understand what's really going on. Yeah. Let me call and get his I I feel like we need Yeah, I'll get a supervisor who will go one way or another. He's missing. They didn't get me in the system. He's missing. At this point, after lying for several hours, Gregory eventually told officers his true name, George. When officers ran it through the database, they discovered he'd had an outstanding warrant for kidnapping in a case that had occurred in 1983 after a woman was found distressed and tied to a tree near Chippewa in a rural area. Officers knew they were dealing with a fugitive on the run. I see both names out here today. Yo, none of us are mad at you. I'm just baffled that law enforcement has let you go for 30 years. And not pushing you in What's crazy is 1990, that means you've been on the run longer than two out of the three officers here on the street that have have been alive. 1995, I was 1 years old. 94. Oh, I'm saying yeah, you were 12. Yeah. Well, where have you been in all your different places, man? Where's your been your favorite? Iowa. Iowa? Okay. Why is that so special to you? Well, not Michigan, though, you get a dime. Yeah, he can, bro. Well, not Michigan, you get dime for that. I get told I'll [ __ ] up there. Hey, buddy, can I get that knife out of your pocket since uh And then you can do whatever you want with your I don't want it. It'll go with your stuff, but Still, dude, I'm on vacation. We don't Well, we don't know if Wisconsin wants you yet or not. I do not need to clean it. Well, I was going to go get some. Can you go to the vape shop like I can for $4.50? I am really inclined to do that cuz you were honest with us. So, what kind do you want? The brown menthol one, I guess. I'm not going to remember that. Brown menthol one, I guess. Yeah, this You put the absolute to the cheapest menthol they got. Both of you have this Oh, I don't even have any in here. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Still figuring out. Maybe they don't want me to go home. I'm here. I'd like to know the information. Yeah. Then I wouldn't have to be doing what I'm doing. Well, yeah, we're good. Uh like possession of short-barreled rifle, false imprisonment, a bunch of stuff from He's on the run since like '95. So, he gave us false He gave us false information and then gave us information of a dead guy. And then which tipped us off and then the hard part is that I stopped him on a city code violation cuz city code says that during the day you have to have a rear reflector but state code doesn't. So, like I didn't want to I wanted to figure out as much as I could here and I didn't want to hook him on a city code cuz that makes a lot of issues. So, so now ICE is coming out cuz we can't quite 100% verify who he is. Cuz he gave us the wrong name. Yeah, he gave us the wrong social or it's a little bit off to begin with. Uh I don't I'd have to go look at it. Sorry. Yeah. Um I can give you his info though. What's his first name? What's his last name? Uh well, that's the issue, too. Uh we're thinking West Virginia. What's his last Hurdle Road is the last name. H A R T L E R O A D All right. Yep, first name's George. Tomlinson. Yep, 19 and no middle name. As the investigation unraveled the truth, George dropped the facade. Speaking with open defiance, he described what had happened as though he had nothing to lose. He didn't retreat. He challenged the officers face-to-face. Wisconsin wants you, buddy. I figured that. That's what it is. Just for leaving the state without permission. Yeah. Well, for those charges I'd assume, yeah. Yeah, not to them. Yeah. Yeah, not to them. I have not committed crimes since 1982. You committed one today. Well, that's well. If I wanted to have a vendetta Right. Right. If I wanted to have a vendetta, I could hit you for false information today. And what that'd make you do is they'd have to bring you back >> say nothing. I just told you that. There's a little gray area in the No. Uh yeah. If you provide any info, even if you're not required to provide info, if you provide false info, that's a problem. >> Okay. Well, what are they going to do to me in a couple years? I'm not doing that's exactly yeah. I'm just saying what's the worst they could do to me. That's the You know, you're not wrong. Everything you You're already in deep [ __ ] anyway. I got Everything you They're going to try to get me and they're going to take me back and they're going to run me through the system. They're going to go, "Oh, we got him again. Oh, we got him. We got him." You're not Everything No, everything you said today has been 100% correct. I can't be mad about any of it cuz you've been 100% correct other than the name other than the dead guy's name. I didn't even know the guy was dead. Yeah, that's going to be someone else's problem. Hey, he died He died like 5 years later. He did not last very long. You better find someone else. Well, that'll be easy. Don't worry. That'll be easy. That's >> I will jump again should they turn me loose. You know, every time >> Oh, no. Guys, they've been popping my ass Yeah. for 30 41 years now Yeah. on a 9-year sentence. At this point, his aggression no longer mattered. For more than three decades, a criminal case had been waiting in his name and it was finally catching up to him. All right, come back. You're honest. [ __ ] it. Matches here? What's your property for? We'll double lock these so they don't tighten up on you, okay, buddy? >> Yeah. Hey, you're under arrest now. Take it off. Just Yeah, don't worry. Can I take it with you or not? It's going to go that way. This is cigarettes like that's my chief. >> Yeah, I'm not going to take seriously. I mean, And the 25 ticket for for smoking, but No, you won't be able to smoke in there, but I'll have to be able to take you out. Okay. I'm going to take them out of your pocket just so you don't light them up in the back of my car. I've had someone do that before. I can see it. Hop squat for me. They took their butane lighter out. >> Hop in. Lit her up. Oh, excuse me. Oh. Yep. I said you never said start car or what? >> No, I was just wondering if you uh And you can just put your junk in the back, yeah. Not the most comfortable, but lean back in for a second. I'll loosen this up. Perfect. That's a little too loose. I went too far the other way. Can you sit down a little bit? You're on the The cuffs? Yeah. I can try my best. Like down a little bit on the hand. All right, we'll have it on the way. Yeah, I sat him down as best I could. Just In the end, George Harlerode was placed back in custody to finish serving his original sentence, to return to the rehabilitation home, and is now at risk of losing his community supervision status. Up next, what was meant to be a night of celebration turned into a criminal act that remained unsolved for decades until it finally ended with a disturbing confession. >> New Year's Eve 1984 going to 1985. >> January 1st, early morning 1985. She's found on the side of the road. >> I have irrefutable evidence that you did It's because you're afraid that somehow we'll find out that you're responsible for her death. We already know that you are. It's been 35 years ago, right? This is a 35 years that you haven't had to face this. How did you eventually kill I think it's strangulation. What did you use? My hand. On March 18th, 2020, officers from Pensacola, Florida investigated a case that had occurred more than 35 years earlier. Over the years, the investigation led to a suspect who was believed to have participated in the murder of a woman on New Year's in 1985. Using advanced technology, officers were able to track down the man's location and went after him until the moment of his capture. Hey, good. How are you doing? I'm Officer Harlerode with the Pensacola Police Department. Do you have your license on you by any chance? Thank you. That's okay right now. Because of the virus and everything, do you mind talking to me outside? Okay. Why don't you step right back here to my car? That way, you know, the contagion and all that kind of stuff. How you doing? How you doing? How you doing? Mr. Woods, you're going to have to come with us. We're going to be bringing you down >> The victim was identified as 23 years old Tonya Ethridge McKinley. One New Year's in 1985, Ethridge had left a bar but a few hours ago she was later found on a highway. During the initial investigation only one DNA sample was recovered from her body. However, due to the lack of forensic tools at the time, the police were unable to identify a potential suspect. But in 2020, when the case reopened, the investigation pointed to a first suspect identified as Daniel Wells. In the mid-80s, do you know a girl named Tonya McKinley? Tonya McKinley, no. Did you go to North High School? >> Tonya McKinley, I knew a Tonya um Her Tonya Ethridge? No. No, I don't know her. You would remember her if you knew her. I mean, like if it was somebody you dated in high school. No, I don't know. You would remember that, right? Yeah. The one Tonya I knew was Tonya Lynn. I went to school with. Or she probably would have been like a year ahead of you in school. I don't know. The name doesn't ring a bell. Well, I mean, that's kind of who we're here talking about. So, it's kind of strange if you don't know her at all. No, I don't. I I don't know her at all. Would it surprise you if in 1985, were you in Collier County and got arrested for driving with a suspended driver's license down there in Naples? I was working. You were working down there? And then had Yeah. Yeah, I remember that. That's the only time I got I guess it's the only time I got to like chicken or anything. It's the only time you got in trouble? Investigators initially had to gather information in a different way. Since it was decades old, they couldn't directly pressure Daniel. Instead, officers focused on learning about the suspect's current routine. There were strong suspicions that Daniel had been near the location where McKinley's body was found. On New Year's Eve, going from 1984 to 1985, do you remember what you were doing that night? No. What were you normally doing on New Year's Eve? During that time frame? Um Maybe go out to Kevin's Supply or something like that on the beach or Like you went to the beach? Yeah. So, where do you normally hang out at? What bars? I mean, you worked for Shan's. Right. But you You did culinary. Would you ever go to the bars? Not very often. On McGregor or on Davis? Not downtown, no. If you went out, you would go to Use this? Beach. Yeah. That's where I'd be. McKinley's There was the was There was the hotel and Daryl's. Shan's, there's one But they're all kind of on the backside of University. I don't remember the other three there too. You remember the third one back there? You remember Daryl's? And Shan's? >> remember Daryl's. You don't remember Daryl's? It was at the very back. >> Bennigan's. Bennigan's is the other place that's back there. We can check that. At this point, Daniel claimed he couldn't remember which bar he had been at on New Year's Eve. Yet he admitted he was in the city that year, a detail that aligned with witness statements placing him at the very same bar McKinley had visited that night. What did you picture yourself back then doing as a Like I don't Hanging out with friends? Going to somebody's house? Going out with other people, yeah. Once in a while. Mhm. Yeah. So, is there anything else you're talking about, you know, old times and stuff that jogged your memory about El Crest? About the house on El Crest? No. Um I was there a lot of times but I'm just trying to think. I don't know um I don't know where Elm Crest is. When you would go out around Elm Crest New Year's Eve, and you're a young guy, would you be out like looking for for anybody like company, a woman, anything like that? No. I was out with a group of friends. You know, whatever. Ever get lucky? Yeah, I get lucky. Oh, man. You You Yeah, I guess that's the same thing. How often? Yeah, but that's usually like like chain, you know, not a um What are your views on like one-night stands? Occasionally. Yeah. Is that a normal >> you would meet somebody and you know, get to know them and I mean, most guys are not going to ever say no. You know, you're at a bar and and you start a conversation with a girl and she's willing, you're not going to turn it down. Yeah. Girls might, but guys usually don't. And so Yeah, I've had a few one-night stands. Mhm. Halloween, if you remember. I was out at I was out at the um Kevin's old apartment. We used to We used to rent hotel rooms for when the races or whatever. You know, I was working cuz I was working out at the Woodcraft there, too. By yourself or you were closer to that? Well, we do you know, with a couple friends we'd go to a place or whatever. You still remember Elm Crest? Well, I don't remember that the address doesn't sound familiar. I mean, the the name I uh Like if she got out. Yeah. I don't know her. Don't know her at all? No. Never had any contact with her? Never. At this stage, investigators knew they had to change tactics. Daniel remained calm, showing no visible signs of nervousness under questioning. That's when detectives decided to try something different, a psychological strategy to get under his skin. The tension on Daniel's face was suddenly impossible to ignore. >> I know you know what we're talking about yet? No. I don't. I don't know what what I don't have any idea what you're talking about. All right. Let's cut to the chase. Say I'm going to show you a picture. All right. New Year's Eve 1984 going into 1985. January 1st, early morning 1985. Okay. She's found dead on the side of the road. And I have the evidence that you're the one that's there. Oh. I have irrefutable evidence that you're there. I'm not I'm not doing all this. On a hunch. I don't know what to I don't know I don't. No. On a hunch. There. Yeah. Tell him. You're there. I wasn't there. Any kind of crime shows or just news stories about crime or stuff like that? Location style, anything like that? No. Do you know about DNA? Yeah. DNA is actually just a positive with more than more positive fingerprints. Right. So, I can prove to literally 1 in 700 billion chances you were there. That's where we're at. I'm not asking. Right. Okay? We're we're not asking you if you're there. Honestly, I don't I mean, I it doesn't really It's been a long time. Yeah. It's been 35 years. This is the first time you've probably talked to the police about this. I'm sure of that. Yeah. Right? Have you noticed anything unusual for the last couple weeks? No. Nobody around you looks unusual, seen a bunch of police cars for no reason, nothing like that? >> Felt like somebody was following you? No. No. Well, what happened? Thing is is that your DNA is at this site, right? On this person. It is It is nobody else's except yours. There There's There's no other explanation. Right? It can't be a possibility of somebody else's DNA. Your DNA is at this scene. And I again, this is this is your life. This is probably freaking you out a little bit, right? Just Right? But But listen to me. There's there's a story here, right? And either you can choose to give that story about what happened, the chain of events that led to what ultimately happened as to why we're here. And you have a part to play in that. If you don't, it starts to look pretty bad as to why you're not explaining it. As investigation continued, the initial strategy failed to produce the desired results. Daniel kept insisting on the version of events investigators did not want to hear. The tension inside the interrogation room began to rise. With every word, the suspect remained uncooperative, and detectives no longer held back in applying pressure. I've never heard anybody in my life. That's what I mean. It I I've had one-night stands and stuff before, but it's it's like Have you had a one-night stand with her before? >> No. I don't know her. I'm telling you I don't I cannot recognize her. I don't know the name. Daniel >> you went back to to school days. The only reason you're not telling us that you know who she is is because you're afraid that somehow we'll find out that you're responsible for her death. We already know that you are. That's why That's why I'm trying to tell you to I I I Just Just listen, okay? This is like 35 years ago, right? This is like 35 years that you haven't had to face this. Right? And and all of a sudden one day you're at work and you run your work day, everything's fine, you're on your way home, all of a sudden you get pulled over an hour later in this room and we're telling you this. That's a shock. And totally normal human behavior to be defensive about. Nobody wants to admit that they did It's like you sat there for a while and didn't want to admit that you had exposed yourself and masturbated when we had to go through this whole process where you're like, "Nope. Nope. Nope. Well, yeah. I did a little bit while I was peeing. And she said something and I said something and I was like, "Oh wait, no, there was another time." We went through that whole process with you. Right? Right. We're starting it over again. But we're going to end up in the same place because we're not here by accident. I'm I'm I'm being honest with you. I don't really like playing games. According to information, the investigation had started 2 weeks prior to his arrest and from that moment on officers had been watching Daniel's every step. Across the table detectives spoke with calculated calm, making it clear they were aware of his presence at the crime scene. Yet Daniel refused to break, stubbornly denying that he had ever been with McKinley that night. This was not gentle. This was not an accident. And and if you're going to let the evidence tell the story, it paints a very ugly picture. Your opportunity is to soften that because we understand there are other dynamics that go on. We're open to the fact because we've heard it time and time again. We don't go into anything with a closed mind because there's been too many times we go in thinking one thing and we walk out thinking something totally different because then we hear the other side of the story. That's how we operate from experience. I'm going to be honest with you, right? That's all I can do with you. We're following you. Because we need DNA, right? So, we have DNA from the scene. What you did 2 weeks ago now? On your way to the work, you threw a cigarette butt out the window. There's a way you actually you're on your way up to a shop, I believe, on Cal Oaks Fox. And you're driving from the shop up Cal Oaks and there may have been a police car behind you. And then all of a sudden that police car stops, blocks all traffic right behind you. Remember seeing that? Mhm. Do you know what you did just before that? You threw your cigarette butt out the window. And I was in that police car. There was two LAPD agents right behind you. They picked up that cigarette butt, we submitted it, and it came back as a match. So, we know that you were at the scene. That's That's not a debatable fact. I'm just Yeah, you're blown away. It was just I don't I don't know if it's someone I had sex with or or what, but I just I know I don't I have never hurt anybody. It's It's what I'm saying. It's just it's blowing me away. There's There's a couple different ways to look at it. At this point, the mounting pressure was enough to trigger the first signs of confession. Tihs suspect admitted that he may have spent the night with the victim. However, Daniel carefully framed it a lapse in memory, claiming he wasn't sure it had really been her. A calculated ambiguity that only intensified investigators' frustration. I don't even advise I mean you know we're here, yeah. Right. This was a pretty big deal back then. It was all over the It was on the news. I don't remember it. So, how I mean I just I'm I'm just How can your DNA end up with her? Unless we had sex. That's the only reason that's I don't know. I'm not asking you to guess. I'm I'm not asking you to theorize. I'm asking you to tell me because you were there. How did your DNA end up there? >> I was with her. I was with her, I guess. I was with her. I was with her. I guess. And I don't I'm not trying to I don't remember her. I don't remember the name. The face means I don't remember her. If you're in and out partying or something like that, I mean it happened pretty regularly. So, what do you think, like we talked about earlier, that there's after 35 years there's lots of things that are kind of vague in memories, except for the specific life events. Like in 1986, right? 1985, excuse me, when the Space Shuttle blew up. I know exactly where I was standing when I heard it. Because that's a significant event in my life, right? So, you have significant events in your life that you remember exactly where you were, Right. what you were doing when they happened. Don't you think that if you had sex with a girl you were out partying New Year's Eve, you met a girl, picked her up, you're in the car, right? You had sex with her, and then the next morning on the news you find out she's dead. You'd remember that. I would, yeah. Yeah, I would remember it. So, that's the most >> I mean, I don't know it's like I don't know. That's the most innocent scenario I can give you. Right. So, you remember if you had sex with a girl and the next day she was on the newspaper dead. Even if you didn't know who she was. You'd remember the next day when they put her picture in the paper 2 days later going, "Oh my god, I was just I was just with her 2 nights ago and here she is." I guess I would remember if I'd I'd seen her. I'm just I'm just trying to throw some logical stuff there. You know, I'm trying to help you out here. Because I'm telling you the picture that this evidence paints is not one that you want to go out there without explanation. There's room there to mitigate some of that effort. As the investigation progressed, time continued to pass with little advancement and no definitive confession. With the investigation seemingly at a standstill, detectives realized they needed to shift their approach. That's when psychological tactics began to come into play. Or four months. You stay in contact with him? All the time. Very good. That's hard to do sometimes. I got a son that's in the Air Force. Spent 2 years in Japan. Now he's in Biloxi. Which is just 2 and 1/2 hours down the road. We have a good relationship, but we might not talk for 2 months. Right? There's times he doesn't where like, "Hey, are you Are you just come by on down the road? Are you Are you going to come by and visit sometime?" Because it's easy to lose that when there's a distance. But you and Morgan still have a good relationship? >> Yes. Very good relationship. >> Does he ever come here and visit? When's the last time he came here and visited? About a year ago. Do you ever go out there and visit? Do you ever I've been there since he's been there. He lived there from Kansas City and uh Does his mom live out there? She moved out there. Yeah. Okay. She moved from Kansas City. So, we're not really talking so much. You haven't had a great relationship with your sisters for the last several years. Your mom and dad have passed. Right. You have an ex-wife. Right. Do you have a relationship with her? Or is it just like She calls. Does she call you? Is it about Morgan or is it just >> Yeah. We talk to her. We haven't got a great relationship with his with his my second wife, she We call. That's good that you check on me. See how I'm doing. That's That's good. That's healthy. That's probably helped keep you level these last several years. Right? At this point, detectives turned the conversation toward Daniel's family, questioning how his loved ones would view the truth if it came out. For the first time, something in his expression shifted, as if the mention of family had unsettled him. Well, I hadn't known you before this. But you don't seem like a cold-hearted person. I'm not. I mean, I I don't So well So I would think it it It occurs to me that you care what people think about you. Yeah. That's why you're embarrassed about being >> Not really. Cuz I mean, to a to a to a certain extent. I mean, I think we're all like, I'm not going to change who I am to satisfy people. But your image to Morgan especially what you do how you look to Morgan is important because you're a good father. Yeah. Right? And you want to be a good father to him so that he grows up and is a better person than you are. Right. I think that's all our goal as parents. My kids, I want them to grow up and be a better person than I am. And I'm sure that's what you want. I feel like you're the type of person who would want that for Morgan. I'm sure. Yeah. I'm telling you very near future right? When this story comes out and the details of this come out if it goes out without explanation of what happened right? Your story of what happened it is going to be clear to Morgan that you're responsible. And without an explanation of how it got to that point, he is going to be left to fill in those blanks just like we are. Something happened. >> For this time, the tactic was effective. The defensive wall Daniel had built around himself began to break down. Within minutes, the truth started spilling out. I was with her and stuff, but I didn't give her a ride home. And there was a group of us. Because I guess she lived over in uh San Luis Obispo or something. And Bobby Hicks and a guy named Ralph James. They were with me. There was a group of people that I went to school with that were They were there. And uh We did have Hicks. And Parkman. Other than that, well, no, actually the house, I guess, too. That's where That's where uh uh John Pendergass was. Is that the house on Congress? I guess yeah, that must have been. You know, so far as the the address, I don't recall. But I would stay with him and have him Was he out with you that day? Uh no. He wasn't. There was a guy They were came by the house. And uh They left with her. At this moment, Daniel no longer tried to hide what happened. At first, he attempted to suggest that others might have been involved, but soon Daniel admitted that after an argument, something terrible had happened to McKinley, describing it as some kind of accident. And she wanted a ride home. And you know, but we went by the went by my house. And we had a few drinks and stuff and it just it just escalated. From from from from that. She, you know, uh I hit her and and it knocked her out. And it it was it was dramatic. Well, and then What happened to make it out of control? I I can't I think that we just got in we got in an argument or something, whatever it was. Was it about her using No. No, she was willing Wow. Was it then Ralph and this guy they stopped by? Drove off and they They left. And then Were you having sex with her? We were having sex before, yeah. You had sex before? Did she try to withdraw it and that's what led to it? Did So like in the middle of it did she want to stop? No, we had and stuff and then I just did What happened to make things I just I just Was it something she said? I don't I don't know. Let me kill you. Be real here. Did she like comment on your sexual performance or something? >> No. It was just It was Yeah, it wasn't but it Did she want to leave and you didn't want to leave yet? I'm Something like that. I I don't I don't remember. We're trying to get We're trying to We're trying to get you this statement. I I can't remember. I just know that But you're the one that was there. As the full truth emerged, investigators no longer needed to challenge Daniel's words. Instead, they methodically laid out the evidence that confirmed the horrifying reality. The cruelty of the accused was deeply unsettling. No remorse, no justifiable motive. In a moment fueled by emotion, he had ended the life of Ethridge McKinley. You said you hit her on the head. What did you hit her on the head with? I don't know. It was a cutting board. Cutting board? Yeah. Wooden block. Wooden block cutting board? At your house? The one on Milcrest? So, you were just staying up there with Pennegrasse? So, that's where this happened at? Was anyone else there? No. They I mean earlier there were some up there but So, you said the guys were there but then It was later on in the evening or something like that. and then So, Bobby and Ralph came over there while you were there with her? Had you already had sex with her then? Yeah, once. Once. >> And then, yeah, we were So, then they came over. They hung out for a little bit with you, had some drinks. And then they left. Right. And then We started to get out of hand, get into a little bit of an argument or whatever, and from drinking and stuff. It just kind of got out of hand. So, thinking of cutting board, you're in the kitchen, arguing. I was standing in the kitchen, yeah. She was trying Once again, I think I might have grabbed Oh, yeah. And you said once, so there was a second time. Was it after you hit her? Uh Yes, it was. So, you hit her. You said it was a fatal blow. She was unconscious at least. Right. So, then you had sex with her a second time also. >> Well, not really sex. I mean, I didn't You tried We were yeah, but then then it was like I I was going to believe what had happened. And I couldn't get her to respond. Daniel's actions did not stop there. With the victim unconscious and defenseless, he continued without hesitation, revealing a disturbing lack of humanity toward a woman who was completely vulnerable that night. I think I just threw her out of the car. Think I took her down the road. In what? >> In my in my vehicle, and it was me. I don't know what I was driving then. I think it was my Ford. I think it was my truck. Listen, the same one that you got the ticket on the same Ford. I don't know. Both of them had that truck down there. Those are company trucks. So, you think you had a pickup truck? Yeah. Where'd you put her? Uh just on the side of the road. I mean, in the truck bed? Um passenger seat. Did she wake up though? No. When my character holds and all that stuff. Before after you punched her in the eye? Before. How did you eventually I think it's strangulation. I don't know what it was. But I tried. Okay. Where did you where was she at when you strangled her? Was it on the place where you brought her to or was it the house? It was at the house. What did you use? My hands. Now, you said that you had sex with her a second time after she was hurt. No, I didn't. I I'm just trying to piece together the reason >> Right, but we were going to we were going to have and we were again and we just we didn't and we kind of got into it a little bit. >> So, it was over one and a half hours >> me and I I don't know. So, I just I don't know. I just pissed and I hit her with it. After 35 years, the case was finally approaching a conclusion and the truth about what had happened to Ethridge McKinley was coming to light. Daniel had been unable to accept rejection. When she told him no, he refused to walk away. In a fit of rage, he chose violence, a decision that in that moment he believed was justified. There's indications that sex with her happened after she's unconscious, too. So, did you have sex with her after you hit her? Uh You said yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I guess yeah. So, she wasn't a willing participant in that. But, that's what the argument was about the wedding dress. But, then you realized she really was unconscious. I and then it's like So, you kind of lost interest at that point. Which was kind of annoying. Yeah. So, it would have been kind of make me think that maybe the argument was that she wanted you know, she didn't want to. That led to the argument, that led to her slapping you, that led to you hitting her head, and then you had with her again. Did strangulation occur after that or before? Before. Yeah. So, you hit her in the head, she goes out, you strangle her, and then you have with her again, at least partially. Did you Did you try it? You try it again, and you realize, "Oh [ __ ] she's really hurt." You take her out, you put her in the trunk, you drive around. You push her out into the woods out there. In the end, Daniel Wells was arrested and charged with first-degree murder and sexual battery. As the crime occurred in 1985 in Florida, the sentencing laws at that time would have been applicable. However, days before his scheduled court date in April 2020, Daniel was found dead by suicide in his cell at the Escambia County Jail. Moving to the case when officers received an unexpected phone call regarding the old investigation, they never imagined it would be a man confessing to the crime. >> Sir, tell me exactly what happened. >> Well, I killed somebody. Somebody? >> I was on really bad >> Okay. Where did you bury him? On the side of the house right there. Do you have pictures? I think it is. I think it's the boot and that's the bottom sole of it. On December 2008, officers in New Mexico received a call from a man who confessed to killing his landlord more than 15 years earlier. Initially, officers were shocked by the confession. When they arrived at the scene, the man was reportedly drinking before making the call to police. The weight of the crime had burdened his conscience for years. Well, who is that? I'm burying him in this house. Where at? On 5th Street. What's the address? >> I don't know. You don't know? No, sir. How did you get over here? You walked? Yeah. Okay. >> a long time ago, is what he said. I'm just trying to recover him. You tried to cover it up? Okay. The guilt? Okay. You doing okay? You're all sweaty. Did you run here or Oh, you drank all that water right there? Okay. All righty. Yeah, go ahead. Would you show me where it's at? What? If I took you, would you be willing to show me where it's at? Well, that way we know where the the house is. Okay. I'll let you finish your your thing. Okay. You don't want to finish it? You're good there? Okay. All right, just hang on, okay? Relax. Relax. Relax. No. Just hang out right here, okay? No. Just hang out right here, okay? We'll talk to this guy. Hang out right here. So, he's saying He's saying he uh somebody a long while ago and he buried the house. Some house in District That's what he's saying. So, I asked him if he's willing to show me where the house is. He's like, "Yeah, I'm willing to show you where the house is." So, that's that's all we got right now. He doesn't know the address. It was a long time ago. That's it. Nothing current, so Um I'm going to take him up there. We'll see if he's see if he's willing to show me the house and I don't know yet. I literally just just hearing What year was this at? You don't remember? Okay. It's been a long time. Okay, we're going to go all the way around over here, okay? My car's way over there, so we're going to walk this way. According to early reports, the call came after years of reflection over the crime. The man, later identified as Tony Peralta, seemed prepared to cooperate as the investigation unfolded. >> Do you have anything on your person besides your switchers? You mind if I check you? I don't want to be cuffed. Okay. Your phone? Okay. I'm just going to hold on to these, okay? Have a seat, come on, brother. Okay, will you give that stuff back to uh >> That guy? No, uh they belong to my sister. She lives right there down the street. Okay. I left the house. Okay. All right, we'll address it. Have a seat, okay? I'm going to roll the window down for you. Here's what we're going to do, okay? I'm going to cuff un- handcuff you from here, okay? And then I'm going to come in the front, okay? And then I'm going to let you carry your water and we're going to take you to this exit cuz they're going to talk with you more, okay? All right, cool. All right, we're going to do it in the front. Okay. Cool. Yep, right there. Yep. All right. Thank you. That way I can let you let you be able to hold your water. Hey, hey, bless yourself, man. Absolutely. >> Pray to Jesus Christ. You want to grab your water right here? Hey, or all I did it for everything was nothing. Okay. As the investigation progressed, something unexpected happened. Without significant pressure, Tony confessed, a rarity in cases like this. He suggested that mental health issues may have influenced his actions, but there was a complication. Despite admitting to the crime, Tony insisted he could not clearly remember what had taken place that night. So, you called us, but it's kind of mixed messages. You have handcuffs in your hand. >> had somebody do it and I buried him. Okay. Um You just grab your Are you making Do you Do you feel like you're able to leave if you if you wanted or do you want to be here? Hell, yeah. I I to a murder. Okay. How have you had to drink today? A A lot. A lot? Yeah. When when you find his body, do you I mean, I'll feel better. It's at his house. That'll make you feel better? Hell, yeah. Okay. I don't want to live with this shame anymore. Okay. I understand that. All right. Well, um I just It's my understanding you're willing to Yeah. It's my understanding you're willing to take us to the house. Hell, yeah. Did it happen at the house? It did. It did? I was I was on really bad. Okay. And I killed him because he didn't give me no money. And I buried him in his house. In his house? Do you remember his name? His name was Bill. His name was Bill? Yeah. Everybody talks about it all the time. Okay. How long ago? I don't know. You don't know? It's been a long while? It's a long while. Do you understand? Don't keep believing that you don't have to. Okay. All right. Tony, well, I'll tell you what. Give me a second. We're going to go go for a car ride. You want to do that? To To his house, you mean? >> Yeah. Yeah, let's go. Now, before we we do this, you understand if if you know what I mean, if we do find a body You better find his body. It should be right there. Okay. Yeah, yeah. Confess, man. Mhm. I confess. I don't want to live live life anymore without confessing. At this point, the suspect's apparent sincerity surprised the officers. Tony spoke in a way that seemed genuine, as if he were trying to free himself from a weight that had followed him for years. Just for good measure, I guess I know you brought you got brought here in here cuz I know you I know you called us. I know you want to do this because it's it's a strain on yourself. But I I just want to make it clear that I'm not going to that person. >> Yeah. I just I mean I I want to make this perfectly clear that you telling us it's it's a good on you for doing it, but it it'd be my job I would have to prosecute this when we discover this. You understand that, right? Yeah, I get that. So, I'm I'm I'm going to go ahead and advise your rights just because it's kind of a state law. >> You don't have to tell me my rights. I know them both. I don't even care if I go to jail for [ __ ] forever or get the deal get dealt with. I shouldn't have never said anything, and that's it. stupid, but just just let me get through this. It's something that's It's something on my end that they want me to do, okay? So, >> Okay. You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be can and will be used against you in the court of law. You have the right to an attorney and to have the attorney present before any questioning and during any questioning. If you can't afford to hire an attorney, one will be provided for you at no cost to you. And if you choose to answer any questions or make any statements, you're free to stop anytime, okay? You understand all that? >> Yeah, I get that. I know you said you drank a little bit. Hey, I wanted to confess to it. All right, I understand. All right, cool. All right, so we're going to go get in the car, we'll drive you to it, you show me. I'm hot though. Will you turn on the air conditioner? It's hot as [ __ ] It's so hot in here. We're going to go downstairs, we're going to get in the car, and we're I'm going to turn that AC up. I hate it up here. >> All right, well, let's go. As the investigation unfolded, Tony's cooperation raised suspicions. Officers began to wonder whether his confession was sincere or simply the result of intoxication. Upon arriving at the location he had identified, detectives searched for clarity, but extracting reliable information became increasingly challenging as Tony's mental condition seemed unstable. Tony. Yeah. Here's the deal, brother. We need some more details All right, what do you want? >> to be able to prove it. Okay. So, let's start at the beginning. Okay. What year do you think this was? I don't remember. How old do you think you were? I don't remember. What does the victim look like? Or what did the victim >> What do you mean you don't know? I don't remember. just know that I did it. Why do you know that? Because I knew that I kept it a secret. Okay. Why did you keep it secret? Because I didn't want to get caught. How long have you been keeping it secret for? A long time. Like how long? I don't know. Like 7 years, maybe. Yeah. You see how all your answers are I don't know? That's what we're having a hard time with. Well, I said I did it. Yeah. But, we need a lot more detail than that in order to get the full picture, right? And if this person's dead in here and has been dead for a long time, they got a family, right? Yeah. Yeah. So, the family's probably missing them. They probably deserve answers on what happened, right? Yeah. So, do you want to give them that? >> I was high, and I didn't know what I was doing. Okay. What were you high on? Meth. Smoke it or shoot it? I shot it. Shot it? How much did you use a day? A lot. A lot? Are you still using? No, sir. No? That's probably why I'm confessing. So, why would What was the reason that you I don't have a reason. You didn't have a reason? So, were you guys arguing? No. I just felt stupid one day, I guess. You just felt dumb? What was he doing when you He was a good man. Was he sitting, sleeping, standing, reading, watching TV? I don't remember. You don't remember? But, you said he was in a tub? No. That's what you said earlier. I didn't say that earlier. What did you say? I said he was in the bathroom. All right. You said in the bathroom and in the tub. At this point, detectives pressed him about the victim's whereabouts. To their surprise, Tony provided a precise location. That level of detail was difficult to dismiss, and it raised a chilling possibility. He may have been telling the truth all along. >> But, how did How? Did you shoot him? No. Did you hit him with a bat? I don't How did you kill him? I don't remember. Did you stab him? I don't remember. You You earlier. I did it earlier. You're just repeating the things that I'm saying now. You see how I don't believe you? If I just came to you and I just said it all the time I don't know. I don't remember. Would you believe anything I'm saying? You said, "Hey sir, what's the law on this?" and you said, "I don't know." You think you'd trust me? That's why I'm having a hard time trusting you. I know. I said guilty person in there. That was Yeah? We're going to go try and find him. Okay. But I don't have the details on where he's at. I told you where he was at. Where's he at inside the house? I don't know. Huh? Where's Where did you bury him? On the side of the house right there. Okay. What part? The part right there. Yeah, yeah, but what part of that room? The left side. The left side? >> Yeah, if you dig in if you pull the board up and dig him up. Okay. On on the left side of the building? Yeah. So that's towards the courthouse? >> Yes. Okay. Which way is his head pointed? I don't know. Which way are his feet pointed? I don't know. How was he laying in there? He was just laying there. How deep is he buried? Not very far. Not very far? >> Nope. Are we talking like inches? Yep. Or like feet? Inches. Inches? Yep. You'll find him. You think he's decayed? Oh, yeah. How long do you think it's been? Today and a month. Today and a month? Yes, sir. How old do you think he was? He was old. Like how old? I don't know. Like if you had to guess. How old are you? Uh 37. Was he older than you? Yeah. How old are your parents? My parents are dead. How old would they be? I don't know. You don't know? I don't know. Over 50? I don't know anything. Okay. Are you under the influence of anything right now? >> Yeah, I've been drinking alcohol. You've been drinking? Yeah. You want to wait and talk to us once you're sober? Uh yeah, can you take me to the police station or uh No, we're going to leave you here for right now. What do you mean? Cuz we got to do this. So, you're going to stay here. Okay. If we find something, then obviously we'll have more to talk about. All right, cool. But, we need details to start working on this. So, if you can think of >> gave you every single detail. Right, but there's a lot of I don't know. So, I'm saying if you start to remember those things, let somebody know. All right. Okay, first thing. Okay. Okay, otherwise you're going to stay here for a little while. Okay. Okay. And if this is a lie, you're going to be charged with false reporting. Okay. Okay? Okay. At the house Tony had pointed out, investigators soon made a grim discovery. The victim's body was there. With that confirmation, Tony was taken into custody and brought to the station. What had begun as a confession now became a formal criminal case. Tony was visibly shaken, the weight of reality settling in. Do you like onions? I got them without. I hate onions. I didn't I know how some people are. You either hate them or you love them. Have you been here for a little while? At the police department? Mhm. My name is Gino, by the way. They They just called me in. It's nice to meet you. You too, sir. Is that good? Is the hamburger good? It's McDonald's, but it is what it is, right? So, they um they already read you your Miranda rights. You're aware of all that stuff? Yeah. I'm going to I'm going to let you know again, okay? Sure. It's something that we just have to do. Yeah. But, um you have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. You have the right to talk to a lawyer and have her or him present him or her present with you before during questioning. And if you cannot afford to hire one, one will be appointed represent you at no expense. All right. Do you understand all that? Okay. What time did you call the police department? Yeah. Yeah? Okay. Tell me what happened, man. I killed somebody a long time ago. Okay. All right, what happened? I don't know. That's her. I've I've been told his name is Bill. Uh but it's really William, right? I don't know. You were living with him at the time? Okay. Back then um you guys had some kind of issue. Was it about a wallet? Nope. Do you remember what what happened? Why Why I just remember I just needed to confess. That was it. Okay. How did you do it? Do you not remember or you just want to say it? I just don't want to talk anymore. As investigation continued, the way the case began left a strong impression on the officers who were forced to adopt a rarely used strategy in such operations, exercising extreme caution in their wording. You know, I wasn't I wasn't around back then. 2009. So you know, my own curiosity is you know, I I want to I want to know. You know, I can read the reports from from back then and that's why I said the wallet thing cuz that's what we were told. I know he was an older guy. I know that you were living with him, right? You guys were roommates. He owned the place, right? I don't But he would he allowed you to stay there. Like you were kind of renting. Did you pay him money to live there or I don't remember. He just Okay, but you guys were living together. All right. So what happened, man? I don't know. Do I look familiar to you? Uh-uh. No? You look real familiar to me. I feel like we've talked before. Maybe I've just seen you around town. Did you use a gun? I don't remember. Okay. How about this one? Why don't Why don't you tell me why you decided to come forward? Because my heart hurts. Okay. Has it been eating at you for a while? [ __ ] yeah. Okay. I know this is probably the a big a big hard decision you had to make. You've been thinking about it for a while? Every day. What was it? I've never been in that position, but I can imagine how hard that decision was to to step up and At least nobody tells you have to worry, man. Give me a little details, Tony. What happened? Do I have to speak or what? No, you don't have to, man. I'm just talking to you. You don't have to tell me anything. You don't. You don't. I just I just want to know the story. I'm sure the family wants to know the story. You know, things He was He was always good to me, and I took his life for no reason. And I don't want to make excuses. What did you use? >> have an excuse. I don't have one. What did you use to kill him? I don't remember. Do you remember if it was some type of weapon or your hands? I don't remember. All I know is that I buried him, and I shouldn't have. One of the officers told me that you had said it was some type of sharp object. Maybe like a knife or a screwdriver or something. I don't remember. Okay. And then again, you you don't have to talk to me, but please don't lie cuz there's no reason to lie anymore, right? I killed him with the screwdriver. Okay. And is that screwdriver around anywhere? No. Okay. Cuz it's been I mean I know it's been a long time. Yeah. You got family in town here? Yeah. That's why I wanted to confess cuz they don't You know nothing happens to them. It was my fault for my sin, you know. Nobody else should suffer except this. Your parents still around? No. No. In the end, in August 2023, Tony Peralla