This car stop could have gone so badly because the officer conducts a stop for expired tags and doesn't realize that this is going to be a situation where his life flashes before his eyes. >> Hi there. >> Yep. >> Hey, I'm officer Kennedy. Murder said earlier in our conversation's being recorded. >> Yes, it is. >> Reason for the stop today is that I noticed your tags are expired. Do you have your license on now? >> Is that [snorts] a firearm under your jacket? Don't reach for it. Just answer it. That's a no right there. At this point where a person is reaching for a firearm, I'm clearing leather, meaning my firearm is likely out of the holster if the person is reaching for the firearm. I mean, you got to be super super careful in this type of situation, especially with her attitude in the beginning. >> I don't know. I'm asking if it's a firearm. So, if you reach for it, we have issues. It is. >> Okay. Don't ever reach for it. Okay. Will you do me a favor? I'd like to remove that from you. >> I would rather remove it myself. >> Okay. You're not going to do that. You're not going to put a firearm in. Okay. So, just hear me out. Stop talking. Just let me explain, okay? It's for my safety. I don't mean any harm to you. >> Excuse me, but I It's about my safety. >> Okay? I'm not going to hurt you, nor am I putting off an intimidation. >> I'm not going to hurt you. >> This is what I would like to do. Okay? All I would like you to do is cross your fingers like this. Put your hand on your head. And I'd like to just grab it and take it out. I'm not going to seize. >> I do not want my my weapon outside of my vehicle. >> Where's your ID? >> I do not want my weapon outside of the vehicle. Where is your ID? I'm willing to put my weapon on the dash so that you can clearly see >> not touch that gun. >> Fine. >> Then it'll attack. >> Put the paperwork on the dash for me. Put the paperwork on the dash. >> Why? >> Because I'm telling you to. >> There are yes people, no people, and maybe people. That's how we look at people in policing. This lady is a no to a maybe person at best. So far, this firearm is still on her. This could go in any direction. >> It's a lawful order. Put the paperwork on the dash now and put your hands on the steering wheel and don't move them. Okay? You're being confrontational. know you have a firearm. We're not going to play that game. I'm going to get your name, date of birth, and I'm going to continue my traffic stop. Do you understand that? >> I can just plead the test. >> That's fine. I recommend that. Well, if you're not going to plead the fifth, you're going to need to present me with an ID. Can you point to where your ID is? >> No, sir. You told me to put my hands on the steering wheel. >> You told me you were going to plead the fifth, which means you're not going to talk anymore. If you're not going to talk, you can't tell me your name and your date of birth. So, will you tell me your name and date of birth? Not until I present this paperwork. >> Okay. 32 and six. Can I get another unit? I'm going to get my chief down here for you. >> Okay. >> Keep your hands right where they're at. >> I will keep them there as long as I can. >> Okay. They need to remain there. And your hand needs to stay away from that. >> And I already told you I will keep them there as long as I can. This is not exactly a comfortable position. >> Females verbally uncooperative. >> I am not uncooperative. I am simply answering you without mind. You guys always do that. You guys always make something up that isn't there. >> What did I make up today? Ma'am, >> you're saying I'm being confrontational. I'm not being confrontational. >> Maybe. Let me use a different word. Argumentative. >> Maybe argumentative. But I'd say so are you. Because you're not getting everything you want exactly when you want it. >> Yeah. because I got to survive every contact and I'm going to get what I want when there's a firearm involved. >> You know what happen? >> I'm sorry, but it's the police that have proved themselves to be unreliable. >> Oh yeah. Have you ever met me before? >> Yes, I have. >> You've met me. Where did you meet me? >> Matter of fact, really doesn't matter. >> Okay, so you haven't met me. So therefore, you have no idea whether I'm reliable or not. >> All I know is you're wearing a monkey suit. >> A monkey suit? I believe it's a police uniform and a badge. >> This cop is sharp. He's not letting emotion take over. He's not overly aggressive. He's being respectful to her. And he has these very matterof fact kind of witty responses which sometimes shuts this down. But she still has the firearm on her. So this can still go in a very bad direction. >> But that's fine. I get what you're trying to do. You're you're mad at the badge, not at me. I'm just trying to go home every day. >> Trust the badge. >> Okay. You don't have to trust me. But I also I not that I don't trust you. I can't trust you because I don't know you. Okay. I stop hundreds and I stop hundreds, possibly thousands of people every year. And I have to survive each of those contacts for >> a duration of 25 years. >> I understand that. >> I know how to do that and I know how I want people to react if they do have a firearm. And so that's what I go off of. >> Remember the term when she says you guys always because this is very critical as this stop progresses because there are certain people that lump all police officers into the same category and you just hope that your stop is not the stop that the person decides to say this is it. I'm done. I was willing to compromise with you, but you're not willing to compromise. You want >> What is the compromise? >> I am willing to put it on the dash or even to allow you to put it on the dash. I am not willing to allow you to remove it from my vehicle. >> Okay, I can work with you on that a little bit. If I'm going to put it on your dash, I'm going to unload it first. >> That's fine. >> Okay. Will you put your hands on your head with your fingers crossed so I can remove it from you? Thank you. I'd like you to take note of the officer's right hand and where it is throughout the stop. If this officer is right hand dominant, meaning his firearm [music] is on his right side, the shooters that I know and that I train with can easily draw their firearm quicker than the officer is able to remove his firearm from either a double or triple retention holster. That's why this is incredibly dangerous. An unintentional wrong move can make an officer react in a way that we don't want to see. >> I appreciate that. >> Any other firearms with you? No. >> Okay. >> Can I put my hands down now? >> Yes, ma'am. If you could keep them at least visible, that would be wonderful. >> Now, can I begin going over this paperwork with me that you're going to thoroughly disagree with me on anyway? I >> I'm not saying I'm going to disagree with you. Maybe legitimate. Okay. >> It is legitimate. >> I've done my own. >> Once I get this done, we'll move on with the rest of the stuff. >> Would have been a lot easier just >> You don't You don't get to decide how things go. Okay. I'm I'm all about >> I'm all about respecting you and trying to work with you. >> I was trying to be helpful. >> You were not. I was I was asking you to do something. You were refusing to. >> I was talking about with getting the bullets out of the gun easier and faster to get the bullets out if you'd have pushed the release. >> Okay, >> that's all I was trying to say. >> Before that, I was giving you a lawful order and you were refusing to obey that. For personal feelings, I understand that you did not prefer it that way. But there's times during a traffic stop or an interaction with somebody, >> you have to set your personal opinion or feelings aside to obey a lawful order. >> To put my weapon on my dash >> afterwards. >> Correct. >> After I told you >> to put my weapon, >> we're going to stop this. I'm going to wait for the chief and we'll go from there. I'm going to put it on the dash now. >> You need to not reach for it. And I'm going to put it on that side. Actually, I'm going to I'm going to just I'm going to hold it here until the chief's here. >> This is also incredibly dangerous. disarming a person, necessarily non-compliant person or a maybe person, because a lot of times they have faulty ammo, their firearms are loaded improperly, and you do not want the firearm to discharge while you're doing it. The other thing is your attention has to be focused on this function because it's critical because this is a firearm and there are rounds in it. But if your focus is on unloading this firearm, then it's not on the subject that's in the car. Splitting your focus is very challenging. Still a very dangerous situation with a maybe or a no person. >> Okay. Where's your identification at? I think we'll just wait for your key. >> Fine with me. Ma'am, is there a reason that you're being difficult? >> Quite honestly, I don't feel like repeating myself. And if I go through all this with you, then I have to go over it yet again with the chief. >> Okay. >> I don't feel like repeating myself. >> Okay. >> Chief, will you roll that window down for the chief so we can hear everything that's being said? So, I have the firearm now. It's clear from her. Essentially, approached. I know she had the firearm on her hip. Not a big deal. Um, I asked her if it was a firearm that she'd point at it or tell me instead of reaching it. She reached for it. Um, anyway, I asked her to put her hands on her head so I could remove it from her and take it back to my vehicle to secure it during the rest of the stop cuz she's mildly argumentative. She refused to do that. We ended up coming to a compromise. She let me take it off her and unload it. Um, so it's been bit of a confrontation. I've asked her for a license multiple times. She said she wouldn't give it until you got here. So that's where we're at. So can I have your license? >> I don't want to repeat myself. >> Okay. Can I have your license, please? >> As I told you before, before I relinquish my information, I am going to go over this paperwork. >> Okay, that's fine. >> Okay. So, as you're asking me for my driver's license, do want you to know that the right of the citizen to travel upon the public highways and to transport his property thereon by horsedrawn carriage, wagon, or automobile, is not a mere privilege which may be permitted or prohibited at will, but a common right which he has under his right to life, liberty, in the pursuit of happiness, not only in his person, but in his safe conduct. And I can give you where to find that if you would like. >> And we don't need to. The US Supreme Court has already squashed that. So, >> no, the US Supreme Court has not. >> Yes, they have. And you do have a right to travel. You have a right to travel by your feet or your horse, but you have to have a driver's license. >> You do not. >> Okay. >> I've seen these stacks of paperwork like this. They literally just print them right off of the internet. And there are so many different groups on social media that share this kind of information and people get confused by it. Traffic law and this sovereign stuff doesn't mix. >> We can argue this later. So, you need to provide the the officer with your driver's license or you will be arrested for fail to hear and present. >> For what crime? >> Fail to hear and present a driver's license. That's a class C misdemeanor in the state of Oregon. >> Without a crime, it is not a failure. >> But you have to let go of it. You have to protect. >> Do you have >> Why do I have to let go? Because I present it. You can see it. >> Do Do you have a concealed handgun license with you? >> No. >> Okay. Do you have insurance for the vehicle? >> Not required. >> Okay. Good. Whether you feel it's required or not, do you have insurance information? >> Yes or no? >> No. >> Okay. Do you have registration information? Whether it's required in your opinion or not, do you have >> I don't know if it's here on the car or not. >> Okay. So, you just don't know. Okay, that's fine. I'll be back. You give it back here? >> Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I'm just going to put it in this bag with all the >> Who is she? This violation. >> I've never dealt with her before. Confirm it with dispatch and just take her into custody if you're carrying a lot of possession of firearms >> and preventing a license. >> Well, you you can you can do that one, too. >> How do you guys get along? Her and I are not getting along. >> I I mean, >> if you guys are getting along so so, then I'll have you probably talk to her. That's good with you. >> Smart move to have the chief talk to her since he developed a rapport. Again, you can see that this officer really wants to kind of deescalate the situation and safely end it. This is a very critical part of this stop as this progresses because this woman is about to be arrested. They've made the decision. Her car, she doesn't know what's going to happen to it and she's going to be charged with these additional charges which going to cost her money. Sometimes this is the breaking point for a person and this is a very high stress point for the officers and the person. Seeing how this turns out is really critical to how she'll deal with the police in the future as well. Dina, this >> the deal. Okay, I need you to step out of the vehicle because you're being placed under arrest for caring concealed firearm. You're placing me under arrest for a concealed firearm. >> Yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am. >> And I asked, what led you to that decision? >> Okay. Well, you're you're carrying a concealed firearm, and that's a crime in Oregon. >> Ma'am, do you recall I asked you if that was a gun underneath your jacket? >> And I said yes. >> Okay. So, by me not being able to tell whether it was a gun or not, it was not in open plane view, right? So, it would have been concealed if I can't tell that it's a gun. >> You can obviously see the butt of it. If you got your sweatshirt covering that gun, it's concealed. An open carry is open carry. Nothing obstructing the firearm or the holster that it's in. >> So, had it been on the dash or like flat on the passenger seat >> or had it been on your side without a sweatshirt covering it, that's not concealed. >> And additionally, it's also a crime to present me with a driver's license knowing that it's suspended. I see you were convicted of driving while suspended in December, late December of 2021, which is only a few months ago. Additionally, you haven't been reinstated at all since then. So, there's a pretty good inclination that you knew you were suspended and knew that license was not valid. That's also a crime in the state of Oregon. >> You guys looked for the most petty thing that you could to arrest me for. >> Okay. Well, we didn't. >> And I'm willing to bet that in the process, you guys got a whole lot of other things going on. So, before we jump to that, I'd like to know what I was pulled over for. >> I I told you you were stopped for expired tires. Okay. Additionally, the registered owner of the vehicle is suspended. You're obviously very familiar with the courts. You referenced the Supreme Court earlier in the stop. Okay. So you know that that's the place to argue this stuff. So at this point that's why you're under arrest. Okay. >> So we're going to ask that you step out. We don't want an argument with you. We don't want any altercation. >> My car. >> So your car So you were convicted of driving while suspended recently. So you have no insurance on the vehicle. >> You guys have no legal right to tell it. >> Okay. Again, you can argue that in court, >> but I'm talking to you now. >> Okay. This isn't the place for these arguments. Okay, ma'am. So I'm going to ask you to go ahead and step out of the vehicle. And if you refuse to >> step out of the vehicle, however, the US Supreme Court has already ruled that a vehicle is a household effect. >> Okay? >> We need you to step out now so we can get you in custody safely and then we'll go from there. So, please face that way. Place face that way and put your hands behind your back. >> How? >> Would you please >> You need two sets of cuffs. >> I have a right shoulder injured. >> Okay. Will you hold this arm? We'll put two sets of cuff on you. Okay. I'll have you walk back this way with me. >> I know you say you're cleaning the fifth, but do you have someone who is a licensed valid driver who can come take control of your vehicle within a reasonable amount of time within the next 20 minutes or so? >> Bryson. >> Bryson. >> He is a neighbor. >> Okay. Are you still living at the Canyville address? It's on your license. I'm only asked because I'm trying to think about how long it's going to take somebody to get here. >> Yes, I'm living. Would you like to call Bryson to see if you can come get your vehicle? >> I would appreciate you. >> Hey, I need you to get over to Myrtle Creek so that you can drive my car home. I'm getting arrested for a concealed firearm. And he could clearly see the butt of the freaking gun. So, whatever. But I need a license driver to come get the car. >> This is a bag for your property that will go with you um whenever you're done with us. Okay. I know you have keys. There's certain things you can and can't have on you when I transport you to wherever we're going. Um so, can I take your keys out of your pocket? Okay, I see the top one hanging out there. I'll just grab it by that and put it in here on your behalf. Okay, >> these cops would have been extraordinarily fair to this lady under the circumstances cuz I know there are officers who would have been in a completely different mindset and handled her very, very differently, much more aggressively considering she's a sidearm sovereign, a person who's a sovereign who carries a firearm, which can be a very tenuous and dangerous situation as we can see. But they've been super cool with her and maybe in the future hopefully she takes that into consideration even though she's going to jail. >> Is it okay if I take your glass off before I put you in the car? Preferably not. >> I just that's I asked why >> generally I it wouldn't be a big deal but I get such bad headaches from the light. It's >> okay. I'll have you step this way for me and just ride around me to the door here. So the best way is going to be to get up as close to that corner as you can face me and then sit back and then swing your legs in. Just do your best. You can take as much time as you need. >> Officer can help. >> Okay. How would you like Can I help you? >> You want me to hold on to your sweatshirt like this? >> That'll work. Keep going. >> There we go. >> Awesome. >> Yep. >> Okay. So, your head should be clear now and I'll give you some time to get your leg up. >> It's not as easy as >> I know it's it's it's difficult. >> Perfect. There we go. >> Okay. Would you like a window down? >> Uh, no. Thank you. When I look at this, I see an adult human female who has been committed to this process by printing out this paperwork, rattling off this nonsensical law stuff, and is willing to be arrested for it, knowing that it doesn't work. She's been to jail already. And the other thing I think about is that she took the time to get a dash cam to record the interaction to just record herself losing. If you know someone who would fall down this rabbit hole, share this video with them because people have to learn that this is not the way to go. Traffic law is completely different from UCCC. And if you like this kind of content, please like and subscribe.