Ms. Lober, if you would please step in front of Britney, we'll get you sworn back in. >> Please raise your right hand. Do you solemnly swear the testimony you're about to give in the matter before the court to be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, subject to the pains and penalties of perjury? Thank you. Please have a seat. Please have a seat. When you're comfortable, please adjust the mic so it's close. Good. Probably going to need to be a little closer. Thank you. I appreciate that. Sounds good. Mr. Bworth, please proceed. >> Thank you, your honor. >> Uh, good afternoon, ma'am. I understand the defense has some additional questions. >> Miss Lewis, >> good afternoon, Miss Lover. >> Good afternoon. Has anybody spoken to you about why you have been asked to come back today? No, >> my lawyer told me I was getting recalled again today. >> And were you told why you were being recalled? >> No. >> Okay. So, nobody's talked to you about No. What we're going to go over? >> No. >> All right. >> I just have a few questions for you about uh your probation that you've been on since May of 2023 when you were released after all of your interviews with Detect Detective Zodriscoll and Detective Maynard. Okay. Okay. When I was released from Wasach County. >> Yes. When you were released from Wasach Wasach County Jail and then you were placed on probation. >> Yes. Become honor. Yes. >> All right. All right. So, when you were released, and I'm just This is I think we've already talked about, but just for some background, your probation was transferred to Summit County, right? >> Yes. >> And Detective Maynard became your probation officer. >> Correct. And you said that you texted him every day while on probation. >> Yeah. Sometimes I'd forget a couple days. >> Okay. But every day from then like through today? >> Yes. >> Okay. Did you text him about everything about your probation like your work hours and >> everything was through text? >> Sometimes phone calls, but yeah, he had my work scheduled through text. Mostly textes. >> Okay. And would those texts be available either on your phone or on his? Do you know? >> They should be. Yes. >> Okay. All right. Um, now when you were put out or I'm sorry, when you were released and you went on probation, you signed a paper acknowledging what your conditions on release would be. Correct. >> Yes. >> And that Well, actually, Katie, can you pull up uh defense exhibit 3014? for the witness. >> Can you see that? >> She will in just a moment. >> Okay, >> there you go. >> Okay, >> and do you recognize that as your conditions of probation that you signed and agreed to? >> Yes. >> Your honor, could we admit I'd move to admit 3014 and publish it. >> Objection, your honor. uh these are being admitted to show what Ms. Lobber understood. Correct, Miss Lewis? >> Right. Okay. >> Correct. >> Overruled. Uh 314 is admitted uh for the purpose of showing Miss Lawber's understanding. >> Okay. And you signed that paper agreeing you would follow those conditions. Is that true? >> Correct. >> Do you want me to publish these? >> Oh, yes. I I said that. Sorry. But since May of 23, I mean, you violated these conditions. True. >> I don't recall what you mean by that. >> Have you violated any of the conditions that you agreed to since you signed that paper? >> Which one do you know? >> You haven't violated any conditions. The the weapon one. Is that what you're talking about? The weapon one. Is that the one you're talking about? >> I'm asking you, did you violate the weapons condition? >> There was a weapon found in my room when they raided it. Yes. Is that what you're meaning? >> Was there a weapon found after you signed these conditions? >> Yes. So, you violated that condition? >> Yes. >> All right. Um, you also violated the alcohol condition. Correct. >> If you're talking about where I went to a concert, >> that's correct. That's what I'm talking about. >> Yes. >> All right. So, and that was in November of 2023, correct? >> I'm not sure. The day of the concert, I went with a bunch of friends. >> Okay. Um, could we just show the witness exhibit defense exhibit 310? And actually, you violated in October of 2023. Is that correct? Okay. I'm sorry. So, October of 2023, you violated your alcohol condition. True. I went there with a bunch of friends and my buddy who bought me the ticket, I asked him if I could pay him back. He said, "No, you could just buy the drinks and snacks." >> All right. And you drank the drinks also? >> No, I did not. >> Well, so you were seen at the concert by a detective from the Summit County Police Force. Correct. >> Yes. Correct. >> And you had alcohol in your hand. Correct. >> Correct. >> And afterwards, he contacted you. Correct. >> Maynard did, I believe. >> I don't. >> Okay. It was Detective Maynard contacted you. >> Yeah. I don't think this detective did. >> And you admitted to him that you drank the alcohol. Correct. >> I had told him I was there with it. Yes. >> You said you consumed it. >> No, I did not. I don't think I don't recall I consumed it. No. I had bought the snacks and beverages for >> Would you look at what's in front of Actually, your honor, can we just publish this now? >> I'd be to admit your honor. I think >> here. Yes. >> Sustained. >> All right. I want you to take a look with the line that is >> can't read it. >> Thank you. Highlighted. I was going to count it, but the line that is highlighted. >> Yes, I see it. >> And what does that does that remind Does that refresh your recollection as to what you told Detective Maynard? >> No, I don't recall. But if it's there, I guess so. >> So, you did tell Detective Mayor Nerd you actually drank alcohol, correct? >> I don't recall, but if it's there, I guess so. >> Okay. So, if Detective Maynard said that you admitted that to him, that's true. >> Yes, he said it. Yes. >> And in fact, you also violated your curfew, too. Correct. >> You had a curfew. Isn't that true? Let me back up. You had a curfew, correct? >> Yes. You had to be home every night by 9:00 p.m. >> Yes. >> And you violated that also when you went to the concert. Correct. >> I don't recall if I stayed the whole concert. I did not stay the whole concert. I left early. >> So >> if I was home at 9:00, probably not exactly at 9:00. >> So you you're not you don't admit that you violated your curfew. >> Yes, I do. >> You did violate your curfew? >> Yes. Like I said, I did not stay the whole concert. >> Okay. Um, so the reason that you were discovered in violation is because an officer saw you. Correct. >> Correct. >> Or you would have No one would have ever known. Correct. >> I'm not too sure. They I had I had an ankle monitor on. They would know where I was at. >> But they wouldn't know you were drinking. >> No. No. >> No. >> Mm-m. >> Okay. So, you just happen to be caught on this occasion. Correct. >> Correct. >> All right. So then in February of 2024, you wrote a letter to Judge Maybe who was over your drug court, correct? >> I don't recall. >> Okay. Could you show exhibit 312? Thank you. Take a look at that and tell me if that is the letter that you sent to Judge maybe. Do you remember that letter now, Miss Lover? >> Yeah, >> you do. >> Yes, I do. >> Okay. Um, I'd move to admit exhibit 312 and publish it. >> Objection, your honor, hear it. >> It's not Are we admitting you for the truth? >> I mean, it's her statement. She can be questioned about it. >> So, question her. >> Some Yes. >> If you're admitting for the truth, it's here. >> All right. All right. In this letter, you told you were asking for permission to go visit your boyfriend in Las Vegas once a month. Correct. >> Yes. >> Okay. And in this letter, you said that actually, your honor, um, could we approach one second? >> Of course. >> Okay. So, you were writing to ask for permission to go Oh, can you take that down, Katie? I'm sorry. >> I've got it. >> To go to Vegas once a month, correct? >> Yes. And in that letter in February of 24, you said that you have been in 100% full compliance with everything asked of me, so I should be allowed to do this. Correct? >> Yes. >> But that wasn't true. Right. >> Yes. No. Yes. >> Yes. No. >> It wasn't true that you'd been in 100% compliance. So what you represented to Judge maybe in order to >> get to do something you wanted to do, you wasn't correct. Right. >> Correct. >> It was an untrue statement. Yes. >> All right. If I could just have one moment. >> Uh, your honor, that's all we have. >> Miss Lawrey, you just testified to um a gun. Do you recall that? >> Yes. Was that the gun the detectives seized when executing a warrant on your home on April the 26th, 2023? >> Correct. >> And then you entered into the probation agreement about a month later on May the 18th, 2023. >> I'm not sure exactly the date, but >> but it's in evidence. Thanks. >> Yes. >> Miss Lewis, may we allow this witness to step down? >> Yes, we may. Are we releasing this witness? >> Uh, no. We would ask that she just be um the subpoena remain in effect. >> Okay. >> But she may leave now. >> So, Miss Lover, to be clear, like the last time, you're free to go, but you're still subject to subpoena. you may be called back. Um, because of that possibility, I need you to not read, watch, or listen to any coverage of this case of any kind. >> Okay? >> And do not talk to anybody about your testimony. >> Okay. >> Okay. Very good. You're free to go. All right. Thank you. >> Thank you, >> Mr. Bworth. Your honor, the state calls Detective Jeff Bod. >> Detective, let's get you sworn in. >> Do you solemnly swear the testimony you're about to give in the matter before the court to be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, subject to the pains and penalties of perjury? >> I do. >> Thank you. Have a seat. One more time, sir. What is your name? >> Detective Jeff O'Driscoll. O apostrophe, capital D R I S C O L L. >> And what, sir, do you do for a living? I'm a narcotics and major crimes detective for the Summit County Sheriff's Office. >> How long have you been with the Sheriff's Office? >> 10 years. >> What did you do before becoming a detective? >> I worked in the patrol division with the sheriff's office. I had a number of primary duties as well as lateral duties. Um, I was mainly responsible for responding to calls for service. I also was a K-9 handler. Uh, I was a UAS pilot or drone pilot. Um, I was a member of the SWAT team as well as a SWAT sniper. Um, and various other administrative duties. >> When did you become a detective? >> July of 2022. >> And sir, what cases types of cases have you handled as a detective? uh all types of cases as far as property crimes, um frauds, thefts, mail thefts, uh home burglaries, vehicle burglaries, uh and then persons crimes everywhere from simple assault to sexual assault, um shootings. Um, I was also on part of an on call rotation for any in progress or major incidents in the county as well as all deaths in the county. >> Are you currently the lead detective on this case? >> Yes, I am. >> When were you assigned as lead detective? >> In March of 2023. >> And did you take over from Detective Woody? >> Yes, that's correct. Was this your first death investigation as a detective? >> No. As I said, I was on the on call rotation for all deaths occurring in the county. Um, and before that, I had investigated several as just a first responder in patrol as well. >> Was this your first death investigation that became a full-blown homicide investigation? >> Yes, it was. Upon being assigned as lead investigator in this case, how did you approach your investigation? >> Um, I had limited information when I first came onto the case. I didn't know all the facts and details about the case, but I knew some of the information, particularly the results from the autopsy as well as the talks results from the medical examiner's office. So, I knew that Eric had died of a fentinol uh intoxication and that there was fentinyl in both his blood and his gastric content. Um, but as far as how I approached the investigation, I wanted to start fresh. Uh, I wanted to start as if it was the first day that it had occurred and the first time that I was seeing it. Um, I tried to look at it with fresh eyes and try to get a fresh perspective. Having said that and knowing what I knew from the autopsy results, um it was apparent to me that there were three likely possibilities of how Eric died. The first being that he had an accidental overdose after taking a substance that may have contained fentanyl. Um the second being that he intentionally ingested orally a large amount of fentanyl to commit suicide. Uh, and third that uh somebody else administered orally to him a large amount of fentanyl in order to kill him. >> As part of your investigation, did you or did investigators get Eric's Doppel history? >> Yes. >> Scott, can I get 1-27? And while that's coming up, what is a DPLE history? >> Doppel stands for Department of Professional Licensing. Um but in our world what it means is the state holds a database of all prescription controlled substances that are um prescribed, issued, filled, um the dates they were filled, who the patient was, um the dosage, things like that. The state uh maintains that information. We can request that for any particular patient within the state. Your honor, are you able to publish that to the witness and counsel? >> Yes, sir. You ready? Preview to the witness? >> Yes, sir. >> Okay, you should see it now. >> The bottom. >> Is this the Doppel history that investigators requested? >> Yes. >> Your honor, we publish. >> Any objection, council? No objection. I He's amazing to >> move to admit and publish. >> No objection. >> States exhibit 1-27 is admitted. >> Scott, if you could embigen that bottom portion, please. >> What's the headline here, detective? Uh it it's just the the contents of of who the results are being sent to. And then it says no records found for Eric Eugene Richens with his date of birth and the time frame that they searched. >> So what does that mean for your investigation? >> Uh it means that Eric wasn't prescribed any prescription controlled substances during that time frame. Did investigators search Eric's phone for evidence of THC gummy use? >> Yes. >> Did investigators discover two text messages between Corey and Eric Richens regarding THC gummy use? >> Yes. Those messages were recovered from Eric's cell phone. >> Scott, can I get 2-18D, please? Is this an accurate depiction of a November 20th, 2021 text exchange between Corey and Eric Richens? >> Yes, it is. >> Your honor, move to admit and publish 2-118D. >> No objection. >> 2-18D is admitted and now published. I believe the green is Eric's and the blue is Cory Richens. Copper Scott 2-119D, please. Detective, is this a January accurate depiction of a January 13th, 22, 2022 text exchange between Corey and Eric Richens? >> Yes. And again, I believe it's the green that is Eric speaking and the blue that is Corey Richens speaking. >> Your honor, state moves to admit and publish. >> No objection. states one uh-19 two sorry 2-119D is admitted Detective, are you familiar with a children's book entitled Are You With Me? that Corey Richens purportedly authored to help children deal with the loss of a parent? >> Yes, I am. How did you first come familiar with it? Your >> honor, we just want to renew our previous subjections to this line of questioning. >> Court stands on its prior. Please re >> Sir, how did you first become familiar with it? Another one of the investigators from the sheriff's office shared a link with me to a story um by Good Things Utah, a local news channel, and I viewed an interview there uh between Miss Richens and reporters. >> Scott, can I get 8-21 Sierra, please? Sir, do you recognize that as an authentic depiction of a screenshot from that interview? >> Yes. >> Your honor, the state moves to admit and publish 8-21s. >> Your honor, we renew our 401 and 403 objections. >> Overruled. 8-21. Did I get the number right? 8-21s is admitted and published. Did detectives investigate how Corey Richens came to appear on Good Things Utah? >> Yes. Uh, a subpoena was sent to ABC Utah news station uh to get that information and part of their production. They produced some emails between Miss Richens and the production team. It appeared that they had some kind of standardized form that anyone could fill out to requesting to be on the show and it looked like Miss Richens had filled that out and they were communicating about the results. Scott, can I get 2-115? Detective, is that an accurate depiction of the March 24th, 2023 email exchange between Corey Richens and Good Things Utah? >> Yeah, I believe it began on March 24th. There's various dates on when emails were sent back and forth, but yes, >> your honor, the state moves to admit and publish 2-115. >> Objective 401, 403, and hearsay, your honor. >> 401 and 403 overruled. With respect to hearsay, there are portions of this were authored by Corey Richens. Other portions authored by people other than Cory Richens. Correct. >> That is correct. And the portions other than people other than Corey Richens are offered for their effect on Corey Richens. >> Very good. Uh ladies and gentlemen of the jury uh to the extent that uh states exhibit 2-115 include statements authored by Corey Richens, you may consider those statements for the truth or for any purpose to the extent they include statements written by someone other than Corey Richens. You cannot consider those statements for the truth. Rather, you can consider them only for the effect they had upon Corey Richens as the recipient of those statements. Published 2-15. >> Yes, your honor, please. >> Very good. 2-115 is admitted and published. >> I think it starts from the bottom up. In addition to Good Things Utah, are you familiar with Corey Richens promoting the book on KPCW radio? >> Yes. Again, I was sent a link to their website. Uh I viewed their web page and saw an interview with Miss Richens and journalists uh and listened to an interview that she conducted with them on their website. >> Scott 8-37, please. >> Is this an accurate depiction of the website promoting the interview? >> Yes, it is. Is it dated April the 12th, 2023? >> Yes, >> your honor. The state moves to admit and publish 8-37 401 403 and hearsay, your honor, and authenticity. >> Uh, do you actually have an authenticity objection? >> Yes. >> Please approach. Scott, would you redact all text below the photograph, please? And the caption to the photograph, please. No, no, no. I'm sorry. Not the headline, the caption of the photograph. >> Oh, there we go. Okay. Uh, remind me of the number, Mr. Bledworth, >> your honor. 8-37. >> Do you want to put an R on it? Does it matter? >> We We should put an R on it. >> Okay. Uh, states 8-37R is admitted. Uh, defendants objections thereto are overruled. Ready to publish? >> Yes, please. >> Okay. Thank you. Towards the end of March 2023, did the Summit County Sheriff's Office receive an anonymous Amazon delivery of the book? >> Yes. uh package showed up from Amazon with a copy of the book and also a a little standard sticker that you can leave a personalized message on with a gift when you send something. Scott 8-20, please. >> Is this an accurate depiction uh of a scan of the cover of the book that the S the Summit County Sheriff's Office received along with the message that accompanied it? >> Yes. When we received this, evidence technician scanned the cover of the book and then the note that came with it as well. Yes, >> your honor, the state moves to admit and publish 8-20. >> Just 41 and 403, your honor. >> Okay. Overruled states exhibit 8-20 is admitted. You scared? Can you zoom in on the photo there? Never mind. Thank you. Did detectives investigate who anonymously sent the book? >> Yes. Uh, subpoena was sent to Amazon to request the information on who the sender was and it came back as Lisa Darden. >> Scott 8-34, please. Is this an accurate depiction of the order history provided by Amazon in response to a subpoena? >> Yes, it is. >> Dated March 21st, 2023. >> Correct. >> Your honor, the state moves to admit and publish 8-34. >> No objection. >> 8-34 is admitted and published. Detective is Lisa Darden Cory Darden's mother. >> Yes, she is. >> Did detectives investigate who wrote the book? >> Yes. Who wrote the book? >> Section 4143 and hearsay >> overruled. Go ahead. >> Um, we found uh text messages in the com I'm sorry, in Miss Richen's phone um between her and a contact named Bookwriting Lane, who is a a book writer publisher of some type uh regarding them writing the book for her. Are they a ghost writer? >> Yeah. >> Scott 2-121, please. This is 141 pages. You've reviewed this prior to today. Is this an accurate depiction of those text messages uh between Corey Richens and Bookw writing Lane? >> Yes, this is a depiction of part of them. Mr. Bledworth, would you approach for one moment? >> Talked about Driscoll. Are the bubbles in green? Corey Richens and the Bubbles in Blue Bookwriting Lane. >> Yes, that's correct. >> And does this lengthy text message exchange um generally depict Corey Richens engaging bookw writing lane, providing them with ideas and circulating uh drafts of of uh the narrative and the illustrations? Yes, that's what it appears to me. >> Your honor, the state moves 2-121 into evidence. >> Same objection 40143 and hearsay, your honor. >> All right. Uh, the defendant's objections are overruled. States 2-121 is admitted. Members of the jury, with respect to states exhibit 2-121, the green messages are authored by Corey Richards. You may consider the green messages in 2-121 uh for their truth or any other purpose. The blue messages are authored by someone other than Corey Richens. You cannot consider the blue messages in 2-121 for their truth. Rather, you may only consider them for the effect they had upon the listener. That is Corey Richens. 2-121 is published. >> Um, thank you your honor. But the state wasn't there. 141 pages. >> Yeah. Very good. >> Did Corey Richens discuss the book with her family? >> Yes. I'm sorry. Yes. Again, in uh text messages that we found on her phone there, she has discussions with her family members about it. >> Scott 2-112, please. Is this a February 28th, 2023 text exchange between Corey Richens and her brother DJ? >> Yes. And again, Miss Richens is in green and DJ is in blue. >> Is this an accurate depiction? >> Yes. Your honor, the state moves to admit and publish 2-112. >> Objective 40143 and hears say, your honor, >> uh, defendants objections are overruled. Are you asking for the same instruction, Miss Nester? >> No, sir. >> Okay. 2-112 is admitted. U move the publish on. >> Okay. Scott 2-113, please. Detective, is this a March 8th, 2023 text exchange between Corey Richens and her mother? >> Yes. Is >> Corey Richens in green and her mother in blue? >> Yes. >> Is this an authentic depiction? Yes, it is. >> Your honor, the state moves 2-113 into evidence and to publish. >> Objection 4143 and hearsay. We don't need the instruction. >> Defendants objections are overruled. >> 2-113 is admitted. Thank you. Scott 2-14, please. >> Oh, Y, we took it down because it was being published. >> Should be previewed now. Thank you. This is not Sir, is this a March 22nd, 2023 text exchange between Corey Richens and her brother DJ? >> Yes. And just like before, Corey Richens is the green bubbles and DJ is the blue bubbles. >> Is this an accurate depiction? >> Yes. Uh >> your honor, the state moves to admit two dash 114 and publish >> 40143 and hear say we don't need the instruction. Thank you, your honor. >> Would Scott, would you zoom in for a minute? Understood. I misread it. Okay. Uh zoom back out so I can see the number. My apologies. Defendant objections to states 2-114 are overruled. 2-114 is admitted and published. Your honor, may we approach on a legal issue? >> Of course. >> Folks, a short restroom break, please. Please rise for the jury. I am aware of that. >> Have a seat, folks. >> Good, >> Ms. last year. >> Yes, sir. >> Uh, Mr. O'Driscoll is part of the investigation. Okay. You can talk to Detective O'Driscoll during the break, folks. We're going to take a break until 2:10. Thank you. Courts and recess. >> And All right. Have a seat, folks. Thank you. All right, have a seat. >> Detective, you're still under oath? >> Yes, sir. >> Mr. Bworth, please proceed. >> Detective, did your investigation eventually lead you to Carmen Lobber? >> Yes, it did. >> How? >> Um, this is a bit of a long-winded answer, so I'll try to just go step by step. Um, we had the information from the autopsy, the talk results, as I mentioned. Um, we had just gotten the downloads from Miss Richens and Eric's phones and were starting to go through them. We started comparing what was in the phones with phone billing records uh, for their carriers. We found discrepancies between what was in the phone billing records and what was actually in Miss Richen's phone as far as call logs. and text messages. Um, we started looking at the most frequent frequently contacted phone numbers in Miss Richen's phone and in Eric's phones. Um, we found that there were a high number of communications between Miss Richens and the phone number for Carmen Lobber. So, we started looking into Carmen Lober and found that she had a history of drug use and drug distribution. Um, we found that she was on drug court probation in Wasach County. Um, my partner, uh, Detective Maynard, actually had had previous involvements with Carmen. Um, knew a little bit about her. Um, we we started looking at who else was or I'm sorry, we we spoke with investigators from Wasach County that were familiar with Carmen's case and then learned that Mr. Nick Bon Savage was also in drug court with her and that they were pretty good friends. Um, we started pulling phone billing records for Mr. Bon Savage and found that he had a high number of contacts uh communications with uh the Gunnison State Prison. And so we went to the Gunnison State Prison and requested the phone calls um between inmates and Mr. Bon Savage. We started listening to those phone calls because they're all recorded. Um and we found an instance where Mr. Bon Savage was speaking to an inmate on the phone and they were discussing getting uh an Xbox controller for the inmate and he said, uh, either you buy it or have Carmen buy it and I'll pay you back. Um, Nick said something to the effect of, "No, I can't have Carmen do it. I just tried to give her money the other day and she told me that she had just made a bunch of money selling illicit street drugs." Uh so that obviously Oh, and that that phone call took place on March 4th, the day that Eric died. So that gave us uh more reason to look into Carmen Lober. We started surveilling her. Um as part of our investigation into her, we collected the trash from her home. Um and in going through the trash, we found drug paraphernalia, specifically tin foil with burn marks and um residue on it. And based on my training experience, that's indicative of somebody smoking a substance off of the tin foil. Um based on that information, we then applied for a search warrant. >> At this point, I'm going to object to a narrative. >> I'm sorry for a moment, Mr. Bworth. Go ahead, >> sir. What did you do next? Based on that information that we had collected, we wrote a search warrant for Carmen Loberers's residence for her vehicle and for her person. Um, and that included uh, among other things, cell phones. >> Did you execute that search warrant on April the 26th, 2023? >> Yes. >> And did you personally execute the portion involving searching Carmen Lobber's home? Yes, I did. >> Did you find any evidence of a crime in her home? >> Yes, in Miss Loberers's bedroom, we found THC products, paraphernalia, and a firearm under her bed. >> And as it relates to Miss Lobber specifically, what was the problem with the firearm? >> Uh, she was a convicted felon and by state statute, she's not allowed to be in possession of a firearm. When searching Carmen Loberers's room, did you also find a newspaper clipping of Eric Richen's obituary? >> Yes. >> Scott, can I get 8-15 split screened with 8-16, please? Sir, is that that photograph on the left? It's labeled 8-15R. Um, an accurate depiction of uh a photograph of Eric Richen's obituary in Carmen Loberers's room. Yes, it is. >> Is 8-16R the photograph on the right an accurate uh depiction just of the same obituary but just a closer view? >> Yeah. Zoomed in from the original. Correct. >> Your honor, the state moves to admit and publish 8-15 and 8- 8-15R and 8-16R. >> No. Judge, >> 815R and 816R are admitted. Detective, what was your impression of uh kind of the collection of material on the left? Based on knowing that Carmen was in drug court, uh, and knowing a little bit about that, how that program works, it seems like she had all of these inspirational quotes that helped motivate her through her progression in drug court. And amongst them were photos of her loved ones, uh, her family, and then amongst all of that, uh, was Eric obituary or Eric Richens's obituary. >> Dead center, wasn't it? >> Yep. Right in the middle of the mirror. Thanks, Scott. Can I get 8-18, please? Detective, is this an accurate depiction of a a photograph of a CN hat found that you found in Carmen Loberers's room? >> Yes, >> your honor. State moves to admit and publish 8-18. >> No objection. >> 8-18 is admitted. >> And then can you Scott zoom in? There we go. >> Yeah, that's the CN Stonemasonry logo on that gray hat. >> Thank you, Scott. Simultaneous with your search of Carmen Loberers's home, did another deputy stopped Carmen Lobber while she was driving? >> Yes, we planned it that way cuz we had a warrant for Carmen's person in her vehicle as well. >> Did that deputy seize her phone? >> Yes. >> During that stop, did that deputy find evidence of a crime? >> Yes, he found that Carmen was driving on a suspended license. Did he arrest her for driving on a suspended license? >> Yes, he did. >> Did that stop occur in Wasach County? >> Yes. >> Did that deputy then book Carmen Lober into the Wasach County Jail? >> Yes, he did. >> Did you and Detective Maynard then interview Carmen Lober at the Wasace County Jail? >> Yes, we uh interviewed her several times over a number of days. What was your approach to interviewing her? >> So, as I said before, u my partner, Detective Maynard, had previous involvement and knowledge of Carmen Lober. Um he knew that she had a history of self-preservation and uh offering information in exchange for help with her charges. Uh so we knew that going into it. But on top of that, after serving the warrant on her home and and being in her bedroom, finding Eric's obituary, it was apparent to me that she probably had some level of uh guilt or concern over her possible involvement in Eric's death. >> Object to speculation and move to strike and uh nonresponsive. >> Uh all of it or just parts? >> Just the last part. >> Okay. Uh can you be specific about the content of the last part? you're moving to strike. >> How he assumed Carmen felt by what he saw. >> Okay, that part is struck as speculation. Take it from there, Mr. Bloodworth. >> Your honor, can I argue that? >> Yeah, why don't you go approach? Uh, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I misunderstood Ms. Nester's objection. My in granting of the motion to strike was incorrect. You may consider uh Detective Otresco's testimony. Give it whatever weight you see fit. So, in addition to what you believe to be Carmen Loberers's motive for self-preservation, upon seeing Eric Richen's obituary, am I right that you thought she might also have some motivation related to her potential involvement in Eric Richen's death? >> Correct. That was my impression. >> What did you tell Carmen Lobber when you first interviewed her? Uh when we first spoke to Miss Lobber, we sat down with her. We explained uh that what we had found in her home would potentially violate her conditions of her drug court, which would put her on the hook for uh I believe multiple felony charges of distribution uh that she was in drug court for, as well as the new charges with the firearm and the paraphernelia and THC products. We told her that we were investigating Eric Richen's death uh and that we believe that she may have information about his death that could be helpful to us. And we told her that if she was willing to speak to us about any information she might know that we could help her with her charges uh in Wasatch County as well as the new charges from the uh execution of the search warrant. >> Did you then immediately question her? No, we didn't ask her uh any questions at that time. We told her that this was the situation. We wanted her to think on whether or not she wanted to participate uh in our proposal in talking with us and then we let her sit and think on it for a few days. >> How many times have you interviewed drug dealers? >> Uh dozens if not over a hundred times. Was anything about interviewing Carmen Lobber more difficult than interviewing most drug dealers? >> Yes. Um, it had there was more time that had elapsed since the incident that we were talking to her about than what is typical for our interviews. So, she had trouble with memory uh remembering details of what had happened. Uh, and then again what I spoke about earlier, she had a history of self-preservation. So, uh, she tended to minimize her involvement and, uh, hold back as much as she could, which is typical of drug dealers that we talked to. Um, they won't give you, uh, any more than they have to until they feel like they need to. >> Did Carmen Lober initially inform you that she bought drugs for Corey Rich? >> Not initially. Uh, like I said, she very much minimized her involvement. Uh, when she first started talking about it, she said, "There's a little bit that I know, and I want to help you with the little bit that I know." But then as we asked her more questions and got more into it, she uh was more forthcoming with the information that she had and ultimately told us that Miss Richens had contacted her to ask her for pain pills. And did she ultimately tell you that she bought drugs on Corey Rich's behalf from Susan Kohler and from a friend of Nicole Cummings named Robert Crosier? >> Yes. >> Did she appear that she wanted to cooperate but was having difficulty remembering timeline and details regarding the drug transaction? stuck to leading >> overruled. >> Uh, not only did it appear that way, but she was explicit in saying that several times that she was having difficulty remember, but wanted to help with what she could. >> At various points during your interview, did you provide Corey Richens with information to jog her memory? >> I believe you meant Carmen Lobber. You said Cory Rich. >> Carmen Lobber. >> Yes. Uh, we provided content from her phone. Uh we provided her with phone billing records that had timestamps that helped us establish a timeline. Uh we showed her maps, we showed her property records, um anything that we could find that would mostly help us establish a timeline and order of events. >> Did you stress to Carmen Lober that she needed to be truthful? Yeah, several times we told her that uh we didn't want her to try to make things up that only tell us what she remembered and only tell us what was truthful. Um and then we also stressed that we needed a great deal of detail in the things that she was telling us, not vague vague comments. >> Did you tell her that you did not want her to speculate on anything? >> More leading. I'm jacked >> over. >> Yes. I believe there are multiple instances in the the transcripts and the videos that show when we said uh you know don't try to guess at what we're asking you. Uh only tell us what you can remember. >> Did you stress to Carmen Lobber that you needed to corroborate corroborate any information that she provided? >> Yes. Uh we were explicit in telling her that any kind of immunity or assistance or help that she would get from prosecutor's office would be dependent on not just her telling us what she knew but giving us information that would allow us to corroborate that information. >> And they did you stress to her that you needed details in particular details to cooporate the information? >> Direct to leading >> over Yes. Uh and and that discussion got deeper and deeper the more we talked to her. Uh we kept stressing we need more detail. These are the type of details that we need. Um and it it just kept going from there. >> Did you andor Detective Maynard interview Carmen Lobber six times between April the 27th, 2023 and May the 13th, 2023? >> Yes. I I wasn't there for every single one, but either myself or Detective Maynard was. Yes. >> Why six interviews? >> As we spoke to Miss Lober, uh she would give us information that she could remember. We would take that information back and work on corroborating it with other evidence, phone records, other details, uh from other witnesses. And then we would go back, we would ask her more questions, try to get more information, more details. It was just a step-by-step iterative process um that took several days until we felt like we had the complete picture of what her involvement was. >> Did those interviews total about 10 hours? >> I believe so. Yes. >> Were they audio and video recorded? >> Yes. >> Have you reviewed transcripts of those interviews? >> Yes, I have. >> Do those transcripts total about 900 pages? >> Yes, I believe so. Did you listen to defense council's cross-examination of Carmen Lava regarding your and Detective Maynard's interviews? >> I did. >> Did you observe how defense picked certain sentences throughout the 900 pages? >> Yes. >> In the full context of the interviews, do you believe that those few sentences fairly and accurately depicted the tone and tenor of your interview? Jack, your honor, >> what's the basis of the objection? >> He's trying to make impeachment sound improper, and it's totally not improper. It is >> filming speaking objections. Are you objecting to the form of the question? >> Yes. >> What is the objection to the form of the question? Your honor, we object to the form of the question on the grounds that it is seeking a legal conclusion on the grounds that it is leading and on the grounds that it is um calling for speculation. >> Overruled. Go ahead. No, I I don't feel like uh those segments that they picked out at all represented our interviews with Carmen. >> Do you think that those those segments without context are misleading? >> Object to leading >> overruled. You may answer. >> Yes, I believe they're misleading. One of those segments said quoted you saying that you needed details to ensure that Corey Richens will get convert convicted of murder and that shortly thereafter Carmen Lober asked for blueprints. What was the context of that discussion? >> So, as I said before, when we were discussing with Carmen, uh it it was very slowm moving at first. Um, and we were trying to emphasize to her the level of detail that we needed um, to be able to offer her something from the prosecution's office uh, for her cooperation. And part of that emphasis was trying to describe to her the the level of detail that would be needed in a courtroom. Um, and it was probably poor choice of words in in hindsight. Um, but that was what we were stressing is the type of information that is acceptable to be used in a court. >> Defense council also picked the words get out of jail free card that detective Maynard uttered. What was the context of get out of jail free card? So, the comment that Detective Maynard made um was coupling her referencing whatever prosecution would offer her in exchange for her testimony, coupled with the fact that there was now a family that didn't have a brother, that didn't have a son, um and the importance of the investigation into Eric's death as opposed to any subsequent drug investigations that Miss Slobber was involved Defense Council also picked the words from Carmen Lober. Can you guys write it down and I will sign it? What was that context? Uh we were trying to get Carmen to complete a written statement uh to go along with the scattered information that we had been receiving through our interview our interview process so that we could establish a more chron chronological timeline. Um and she was expressing concerns about not wanting to be writing things down in front of other inmates in the cell block. So she wanted us to write it down instead. >> And what did you say? >> We said no that's not the way it works. Scott, can I get please 8-58R? Is this a video of various portions of your May 2nd, 2023 interview of Carmen Lobber that we have just discussed? >> Yes, it is. Your honor, the state moves to publish 8-58R. >> Just the ones we've already discussed, the objections. Your honor, >> I would you approach for online? >> Uh 8-58R as ruled on by the court on the record is admitted. Your honor, can I just make 8-58 D for demonstrative, R for redactive DR >> 8-58 DR? >> That's because he doesn't he didn't deserve it. Like it it's just not me. Like I can tell you I affected people's life by selling dope, >> right? >> Okay. I affected my own life by doing dope. >> What? >> No. No, brother. it was intentionally rather he had a bad problem or whether he was hurting it. I don't know. >> Mhm. >> But either way, if it was done purposely, he didn't deserve that. >> Totally. >> I don't know that for sure because I'm not I don't know their personal situation. >> Totally agreed. >> I would never do that ever to anybody. I'm saying that we're going to need you to really settle down and maybe even pen paper tomorrow whenever we meet again. I can >> go through talk about that too. >> If I need to go through whatever I need to go through and figure it out, >> you know what I'm saying? These details that you're giving us are kind of hazy. >> That's to me. >> It's common for people to try to kind of minimize their own involvement, but we're not interested in smacking you with this. But this at the end of the day was the reason we're here. This is >> like I don't know if I should reach out to Susan Cole and say, "Hey, do you know about approximately the time when I got those feels from you? I don't know if she's going to >> probably not a good idea, >> but I'm just saying we're going to need you to kind of settle down and think about details and timelines because we we understand that you weren't a part of, you know, conspiring with the details about everything we've been talking about are going to be important, right? It's a homicide investigation. >> Oh god, that's not >> Yeah, it is. >> That is >> It's something that like none of us are used to, right? We don't do it that often. It's It's pretty crazy for us, too, >> not just you to think about. Like, >> it's crazy. >> Yeah. >> So, right now, we're in a good place to where we've got the information that we were hoping you had and needed from you, right? But there's a difference between us knowing and understanding what happened and us being able to present that to prosecutors who have to present it to a courtroom, who have to present it to a jury, right? That has to be way more detailed down the line the further it gets into the system, the process, >> right? >> Okay. So, that's what we need your help with at this point is nailing down all those details. Um, and like Eric said, if that means we have you fill out something in writing and oh shoot, that's not how it happened. Scratch it out, rewrite it, whatever you need to do, right? Write down something as far as you remember it right now. And then we can work on the details as as we continue to talk about it, as we check phone records, as we, you know, do all of our our part, our side to corroborate what you're saying, right? Um, and I think a good starting point for that is a written statement. Um, for you to sit down and write out what you told us in is the best order that you can remember. >> Everything I just told you, I probably remember what order you told you in. >> It's okay. And and that's fine because you know what? We want to make sure we get the the right story. And so the way you're remembering it is, you know, is all you can give us. You can't make something up that you don't remember. Right. Right. >> So, just tell us. >> That's why I can't remember. >> I just like I remember the cold night. I remember >> like I said, I remember there was because it was very light snow. Like I said, >> it wasn't something that I had to wear boots in or anything. >> When does the time change now? When did we go? >> March or April. >> Is it March 15th? >> So, >> it was dark cuz I had to cuz I didn't even know where this house was. >> So, I had I had to use Google. So what what time of the day was it? I mean if it was dark >> it was toward the evening. >> So afternoonish evening. >> No no no no it was it was dark because I had to use the light on the car >> the fire pit or >> Mhm. So I had to pull into the driveway and pull the light onto the fire pit like >> Okay. Let's say this is the house and if I'm coming that way and I know I I know I turned right. came down the street and it was right there and I pulled into the drive by the flat and then it was just a it wasn't a big fire pit like it was a tiny fire pit. It wasn't like probably you know those white center blocks not center blocks but the white flat rocks that people build. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> It wasn't big. It wasn't a big deep one. >> A shallow one. >> Real real. Yeah. Like I want to say there was like maybe two or three on top and that was it. It wasn't even it wasn't even a complete one. And what was like what was the money packaged in? They didn't just leave it loose. Did it have a rubber band around it? >> Envelope was an envelope marked with like a bank or just like a plain white envelope. >> Just a plain white one, I believe. >> And have nobody's name have nothing on it. It was just up against >> like in the question. Think about all your communications with Cy. >> Can we pause it for just one moment? M let us if you'd approach >> Scott please proceed on a phone maybe in a cloud maybe anything like that >> I wouldn't even know how to operate a cloud >> okay would it be in your phone your phone >> I have no idea Yeah, >> right. >> You guys have all my phones, don't you? >> Did you erase? >> That's what I was told. >> That's why I asked you about them being deleted because you see on your phone. >> Well, I think that's a fair question, Corman. And we're getting down to the brass tax of this and so I feel like we owe it to you to kind of start talking to you about what we do know. What we do know is within a day or two after Eric dying, you got a new phone. Okay. >> I think that's cuz that one died >> possibly. We we also know that there are texts between you and Cory that were deleted. I get it. I delete them, too. Again, we're not looking to put new charges on you. But we're getting down to that area. We going to need to be more open and honest with each other because there's things that we're talking to you about that conflict with some evidence that we have to an extent. And again, I'm not here to beat you over the head with it. Um, as a cooperating witness, that information is actually really good for you. And frankly, this now a good time to kind of talk to her about the conversation. Okay. So, here's where it's at with your drug court. Okay. Um, they are looking for, and this is going to be upsetting, but let me finish. They're looking to pull your drug court deal and ask for seven years on your two first five years for the first the one felony and then a 40% uh portion for the second for seven years. The only exception to that and the only thing that they're willing to kind of help you out with is if you can help us out with this. And by so he he means like give us the details that will ensure Cory gets convicted of murder. >> Oh my god. >> This is a serious case and I'm not trying my own. >> I know. I know. And listen, >> don't don't freak out because this is a long process >> and this is a good thing and this is good news for you. >> So there's there's one more consideration that McKay has. Do you need a minute? >> No. Go. And this is kind of funny because >> it's nothing funny about >> Well, the second part is it looks like you guys figured out how and when people were going to test looking at your text messages, you and Bon Savage, >> which is [ __ ] awesome. I want to know how you do. Are you Are you tracking with me what I'm saying? >> Um what you're throwing. Believe me, >> we need we need hard details. There's no more. I'm going to do whatever because I have struggled so hard to get me where I'm at. >> That's great motivation. >> And I literally want to complete drug court and I want to move out of state. I want to leave all this behind. >> Oh, that's the only way you get your life. Like I I don't want no time nobody. I want to change my phone number. Me and Troy were talking about it like completion of drug court. Don't call. Yes. >> Yeah. I told him you call on that. He laughed. I said you know you're known as Mr. Vegas. >> I think that's what you need to do, Karma. >> I need to like even my daughter out of here and start over. >> I I And he's an amazing person. Like I've never had >> someone like him in my life. >> Like I'm willing like I they have graduation. I want I want to be gone. Like my I want to leave Heidi's house. I want no toxic nobody in my life. I don't >> we have some hurdles here. >> And that's why I said I no longer want to work for the Cory's >> Dorian. Sorry. No inquiry. >> I I don't want I want to do what I can to help do what needs to be done to fix this. >> Well, I feel like that as you were telling us that you know there was some talk about can you get what MJ had and it was kind of very superficial. >> Can you retell that story with all the detail you can remember? I really can't like I just I don't even know if it was because I I kind I like I said I can barely remember some of it cuz it was so long ago but I want to say it was the Michael Jackson and I I >> So tell tell me how that conversation would be structured. She sends you a text and she she tells you >> I want to say maybe she didn't say that. She says, "Can you get >> She said it first. Michael Jackson that I know because >> and so tell me how that would have been said cuz I didn't know Michael Jackson died of >> I didn't know he either. Like I said, >> I knew it was a drug overdose but like not specifically fenol." >> Was it? >> It didn't say Look it up. >> Look it up. Okay, two, but um >> the thought was insinuated that she wanted you to get something that somebody could die from. >> I know one thing that when we got one, it wasn't darken that was I see I don't even know how I'm really >> so there was a couple of there was several >> trans there was one >> okay now we're eating so >> I can see in your face >> several transactions >> so I wanted so confusing but okay so I want to say when she she asked but like I said um >> oh I can't remember when you think >> we'll give you all the time in the world that you need that thing can remember Carmen. But >> I just want you I want you to know that if if you're going to work with us here in order if you have like pieces that we can like like blueprint. >> You're the biggest piece. >> I don't want to be that big. >> Well, the good news is that that big piece helps you out. >> That's what like I said, you hold the >> I love Eric. He was a damn good dude and he didn't deserve it. Was done intentionally. He did not deserve it. We believe you and that's why we're here working on what your get out of jail free card looks like >> based on this information that there's a three little boys that don't have a dad. There's a family that doesn't have a brother. >> You know that Cory's at with the deal. But >> but like you guys said, she's living her life right now and that everybody else is [ __ ] suffering like them. >> That's little boys love their daddies. >> I'm sure they did. >> They I mean I've seen it. there their Eric was their that was their that was his priision that them boys were his everything and people complain about he was gone all the time or he worked so much but you know what at the end of the day when he come in them boys were there and he was like I said that's it weighed heavy on me >> what so we need you to start getting this on paper what's going to happen tomorrow with your OC hearing McKay is you're going to appear for it and McKay is just going to say that he's not prepared prepared to speak to it to get us a day or two. >> Okay. >> So, we're going to come back tomorrow, >> but can we get it cleared up this week? >> I I think we can get it cleared up as far as our end of it as quickly as we can get a timeline down. I know this is exhausting. I'm concerned about sending paperwork back with you and your sale because then everybody's going to be like, "What's that? What's that?" >> Yeah. Can you guys just write it and I sign it? >> Well, no. That doesn't work that way. You know what I'm saying? Because this is going to have to be your testimony. >> Do I have to go to court? Well, that's what I just don't want to do. >> Detective, there's several references in that video to McKay. >> Who is McKay? >> McKay King is a prosecutor with the Wasatch County Attorney's Office. >> And he was the prosecutor in the drug court, >> I believe. So, he's the prosecutor that we talked to and dealt with. talk to in terms of getting immunity. >> Correct. >> There's one more statement that defense council picked up picked out and that was that Detective Maynard said the goal is to convict Corey of aggravated murder. Do you recall the context for that statement? >> Yes. Uh Detective Maynard was speaking with Carmen about the possibility of having to appear before a grand jury. Um and he again was explaining to her that process and how that works and the details that they needed for that uh court hearing as well as an investigation. And he was trying to convey to her the level of detail that they needed. >> Scott, can I get exhibit 8-62 Delta Romeo, please? Is this an accurate depiction of a May 12th, 2023 interview? >> Yes, it is. >> Your honor, the state moves to publish 8-62DR. >> Previous objections, your honor, that have been ruled on. >> Okay. Uh, states 8-62D is admitted and published. business serious [ __ ] but that's more of the change serious [ __ ] like to the highest extreme I think. >> Well, but here's the thing. You've c cooperated. Um, at the end of the day, everybody is on the same page with the goal is to convict Cory for an aggravated murder. These parallel drug investigations, those aren't priorities, >> right? >> That [ __ ] goes on every day everywhere. That's not what we're here for, >> right? I I was just all thank you though that made it. >> Well, that's why I have to clear this up because I'm not going to like give you an empty promise that if it's [ __ ] I'm not going to say it. >> So, do I have to go down there Wednesday or >> So, yes, that's part that's something totally different um than all of this. That is basically formalizing your testimony. This is street cop level in an AMD run, right? That's where it's formalized to the grand jury. But then they have they can't come back on me, right? >> No, they're not going to charge you >> with nothing. >> No. >> Okay. >> Detective, did you arrest Cory Richens on May the 8th, 2023, pursuant to an arrest warrant? >> Yes, I did. >> That same day, did detectives execute a search warrant on the Willow Court home? Yes, the Richens home. >> Were Corey Richens and her sons living at the home at that time? >> They were living there. Um, but we planned the execution of our search warrant intentionally to uh avoid the boys being home, so we waited till after they went to school. When detectives executed that warrant, did they recover an orange notebook from a nightstand in the master bedroom on Corey Richen's side of the bed? >> Yes. >> Scott, exhibit 2-66, please. You just scroll through that real quick. Conor, can I speak to Mr. Bloodworth for a moment? >> Mhm. neighbor. Clear. >> Thank you, Donna. Detective, is this an accurate depiction of a portion of that orange notebook? >> Yes, it is. >> Your honor, the state moves to admit and publish 2-66R. >> We renew all our previous objections that have been ruled on by the court already, your honor. >> Understood. 2-66R is admitted and published. Nice though. Make sure to watch this guy. large number. Detective O'Driscoll, did um detectives also execute a search warrant at the Willow Court home on November the 7th, 2024? >> Yes, >> Scott. Exhibit 2-65, please. Is this an accurate depiction of a document recovered from the kitchen cabinet of the home pursuant to that search warrant? >> Yes, it is. >> Your honor, the state moves to admit and publish 2-65. >> No objection. >> 2-65 is admitted. Did Cory and Eric Richens exchange text messages regarding the Midway? Way mansion. >> Yes, I believe those were located on Eric's phone. >> Scott, exhibit 2-17D, please. Is this an accurate depiction of a January 5th, 2022 check text exchange between Corey and Eric Richens? >> Yes. And uh the green bubbles are Eric and the blue bubbles are Miss Richens. Can we have just one moment, please? Just a moment, your honor. I'm so sorry. Thank you. Yeah, they took it out. >> That's okay, your honor. No objection uh at this time. Uh, state moves to admit and publish 2-17D. >> 2-17D is admitted. Don't be careful here. Take it. Take it. So cool. Scott 2-37D, Please. >> Detective, is this an accurate depiction of a March 2nd, 2022 text message between Corey and Eric Richens? >> Yes, that's correct. Your honor, the state moves to admit and publish 2-37D. >> No objection, your honor. Thank you. >> 2-37D is admitted. I want to turn now to some other text messages. Scott 2-71R, please. Is this an accurate depiction of a May 24th, 2023 text message between Corey Richens and her brother DJ Corey? >> Yes, it is. >> Your honor, the state moves to admit and publish 2-71R. >> No objection. 2-71R is admitted and published. Thanks, Scott. Can I get 2-72R? Detective, is this an accurate depiction of a May 23rd, 2023 text exchange between Corey M Corey Richens and her mother, Lisa Darden? >> Uh, the date I'm seeing is May 31st. >> Sorry, May 31st. >> But yes, between Miss Richens and Lisa Darden, >> your honor, the state moves to admit and publish 5-72R. >> Uh, no objection. 5-72R is admitted. >> It's five or two. I'm sorry. >> Two. >> Two-72R. Yes, >> that's Sorry about that. Detective, I'd like to turn now to some uh phone calls. Scott, can I get 2-76 and 2-76T? One second, detective. >> The detective can see 2-76T, >> your honor. 2-76 on the left side is an audio recording, so there's there's nothing to see. >> Okay. Uh, is this an accurate transcription? an audio recording of an August 22 2023 phone call between Corey Richens and Lisa Darden. >> The transcript is uh does represent that? Yes. I don't have the audio recording, but the transcript is accurate. >> Your honor, the state moves to admit and publish 2-76 and 2-76T. Um, if we could just have the instruction on the other speaker. >> Ladies and gentlemen, during this telephone conversation, you will hear the voice of Corey Richens. You will also hear the voice of people that are not Corey Richens. You can uh consider and accept the statements made by Corey Richens for their truth or for any purpose. The people that are not Corey Richens, you cannot consider their statements for the truth of what they say. You can only consider their statements for the effect they had upon the listener. Corey Richards 2-76 and 2-76T are admitted. >> Picked up the sandwiches from the diner. >> Are you asking me that? >> Yes. >> Oh, I did. >> I thought so. Okay, that's enough of that. Ronnie said, "No, no." I said, "Ronnie, yes." And there was something about a love letter put on the feet of the truck with the sandwiches. I said, "I don't think so, Ronnie. I never heard that." I said, "I believe they were eating in the office." >> Yeah. Supposedly, you put a love >> a love letter on the seat of his car. with the sandwiches. Uh, no. >> Yeah. Exactly. In the office. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> He became deathly ill. Well, Bailey was there like >> and that's what I put. Yeah, that's what I put. >> God, they can come up with some wild [ __ ] I told DJ there I was like, what did these people do? Just sit around a damn table and see if you can come up with the craziest [ __ ] story. >> Well, you know what makes sense to them? So, they're saying I put a love note on a poison sandwich and put it in his car. What the hell? >> Yeah. >> What kind of spike? Here's a poison sandwich I gave to you. And here's a love note on Valentine's Day. Like, what the [ __ ] huh? his truck. >> Huh? >> On the seat of his truck is what it said. What in the hell? Oh my god. They are nuts. And they're going to feel so stupid. And that's the thing. I felt like all of America really. When people get up to actually testify and say, "No, that was a lie. That did not happen. I was there." You can't compete with somebody who was actually there on your belief, right? You know, so I'm just like, you know, and the stupid part is the freaking detectives, those Driscoll, all those idiots, they know this. When they were at my house, I told them this, >> but they're true. Anyway, >> and I almost wonder if they didn't tell it's the prosecution. >> So, they're saying it was on They're saying just a few days later, Valentine's Day, Cory made Eric a sandwich and placed it on the seat of his truck along with a supposed love note. >> Oh my gosh, what the hell? And then the next question is, when Eric ate the sandwich, he immediately broke out in his eyes, had trouble breathing. He later told his friend he thought Cory tried to poison him. >> [ __ ] sad >> sad that you would go to this Mhm. lie. live and Austin was right. I did go back and look where they do start with I believe. Well, I'm going to have a whole bunch of I believe today when Rick called me. >> Oh, did that I was like, well, you believe that I believe this. >> Yes, exactly. Oh my gosh, they're ridiculous. So Ronnie said, "When are you calling me?" I said, "I'm not. He's supposed to call me today." I said, "And then I want my question uh answered." I believe. I believe. I believe. I'll show you. I believe. And he just sent me a text and asked me when I'm free today. But just like I said, go ahead and call. Ronnie's going to call back and we're not done. >> Scott, can I please get 2-7 and 2-7T? Detective, is this an accurate depiction of a transcript of a second August 22nd, 2023 phone call between Corey Richens uh and this time her brother um Ronnie regarding Valentine's Day 2022? >> Um could Scott scroll through a couple of the pages just so I can verify? >> Yeah. Yes, it is. >> Your honor, the state moves to admit and publish 2-77 and 2-77T. >> Same instruction, your honor, but no objection. >> As with the last uh audio recording and transcript, you may consider Corey Richen's half of this conversation for the truth of the matter. You may not consider uh the statements made by people that are not Cory Richens for the truth of the matter of what they say. You may only consider consider those people's statements for the effect they had upon Corey Richens as the listener. The 2-77 and 2-77T are admitted. Eric a sandwich and put a love note on it and the sandwich was poisoning. >> Oh my god. I know. >> Like, no the [ __ ] that did not happen. >> I was like, nope, that didn't happen. Here's what happened. Manny can testify. That's who [ __ ] lived there. That's not what happened. >> Like, that's not at all what happened. Where the [ __ ] are you getting this [ __ ] >> Yeah. And like I even like have >> no >> like my bank statement and stuff showing that I bought lunch at Mirror Lake. Like I didn't make any [ __ ] >> Yeah, I know. I was like, "No." I was like, "No, these sandwiches were bought from a restaurant up the from a diner up the road. Receipts to prove it. This [ __ ] didn't happen. They're working in the office and Manny's there to testify that all of this is true and everything they just said is complete horseshit. Detective, are you familiar with what is known as the walk the dog letter? >> Yes, I am. >> Scott, exhibit 2-86R, please. If you could scroll through that for the detective 2 dash having trouble reading it. I'm sorry. 86 R. Detective, is this an accurate depiction of a six-page letter to Lisa Darden written on either September 12th or 13th, 2023 that investigators recovered on September the 14th, 2023 from a book that was among Corey Richen's personal possessions? >> Your honor, I object. I think there needs to be a foundation laid of of if whether or not it's to her mother. >> Please approach. >> Okay. >> All right. >> Do you remember the question, Mr. Detective? >> I can ask it again. >> Okay. Please. >> Is this is this an accurate depiction of a six-page letter to Lisa Darden written on either September the 12th or 13th, 2023? that investigators recovered on September the 14th, 2023 from a book that was among Corey Richen's personal possessions. >> This is that letter. It has redactions, but yes, this is that letter. >> Your honor, the state moves to admit and publish 2-86R. >> Just renew the previous objections the courts already ruled upon. >> Okay. 2-86R is admitted and published. >> Detective O'Driscoll, can you please, starting at the top where it says page one, read this letter aloud. >> Page one, walk the dog, but take vague notes so you remember. Here is what I'm thinking, but you have to talk to Ronnie. He would probably have to testify to this, but it's super short. not a lot to it. He will need to tell Sky at the meeting next week. Upon information and belief, just like they say, a year prior to Eric's death, Ronnie was over watching football one Sunday, and Eric and Ronnie were chatting about Eric's Mexico trips. Eric told Ronnie he gets pain pills and fentinil from Mexico from the workers at the ranch. not to tell me because I would get mad because I always said he he just gets high every night and won't help take care of the kids. There are pictures in my phone of Eric passed out on the floor or in the chair. Ronnie should have texts from Eric talking about getting high as well. Eric told Ronnie he keeps them in an allergy pill bottle in his work truck so I wouldn't find them. Ronnie never told me about the conversation. Eric finally told me and asked if Carmen could get him some. Eric never wanted anyone to know. He had an issue, especially get caught. He always wanted Cory to go down for him. When they traveled, Eric would put his drugs in Cory's bag at the airlines right before they boarded. That way, if they were caught, Corey got in trouble, not him. Once they got to whenever wherever they were going, Eric would pull the drugs out of her bag and it would cause a huge fight. She was pissed he would risk her going to jail for his drug use. He just would laugh about it. Eric couldn't run couldn't ruin his image that he had drug issues, so he would do whatever he had to. Corey has never done any type of pills. Didn't like them. Rarely would she consume THC only if Eric begged her because it was a special occasion. Reward this however he needs to to make the point. Just include it all. The connection has to be made with Mexico and drugs. Ronnie will have the messages to prove Eric confided in him about getting high. It can be short and to the point, but has to be done. Upon information and belief, lol. They never found pain pills or fentinil in my house because he had he hid it in allergy bottle in work truck and Cody emptied out work truck within a week. So, they were never found. When you talk to Ronnie about this, meet up with him in person. I worry sometimes your house and phone are bugged. Maybe drive down to SL and meet him after work without Bri. Tell Ronnie don't overanalyze it. It was a quick 2-minute conversation. Lol. Tell him I need him to do this. Bring me home and then we will get those damn [ __ ] Also, please text Lotto or call. Tell him, "Do not text me anything about us doing things together ever, like church, skiing, trips, nothing that puts us together. It doesn't look good. We're so close to the end. Let's push through. Have the conversation with Ronnie before he meets with Sky. Then tell him to tell Sky at the meeting about the conversation. Hang in there. We're almost there. Love you to the moon." Take vague notes of all this. So you remember before you walk the dog. >> Detective, does Sky in that letter refer to Sky Lazaro Cory Richen's former defense council? >> Yes. >> No further questions, your honor. >> News and please. >> Thank you. Let's jump right back into that letter since we're on it. Well, it's fresh on our memory. It's exhibit 286 for the record. >> You want me to put it back up? >> Yes, please, your honor. >> There you go. >> Thank you so much. All right. So, this letter that you just read aloud, um, do you know the date that it was written? >> I believe it was, uh, September either 12th or 13th. >> Okay. And in this letter, the very beginning letter tells um I guess if it's her mother that she's addressing it to, if that's what you say, that to remind Ronnie to tell Sky this story. Correct. >> What part are you referencing? >> The story about the what Eric told him about getting fentanel from Mexico. There is a part that says tell Sky at the meeting next week. >> Okay. So, it looks like there's about to be a meeting with with her lawyer Sky, right? >> I have no idea if that happened or if that was about to happen. >> Okay. Well, that's what it says. >> Uh it says at the meeting next week. >> All right. So, there's a meeting come up coming up with the lawyer and Corey is relaying um something that Ronnie had known from the past and something that occurred between him and Eric in the past, right, when they were watching a football game. >> You paused for a moment. Go ahead, Mr. >> Objection. I found Foundation >> sistaint. >> Okay, let's blow it up. We're going to get very particular. All right. A year prior to Eric's death, Ronnie was over watching football one Sunday and then she tells a story about something that Eric allegedly told Ronnie. Right. And just by the way, if you could go up just a little bit above that. >> Wait for the answer. >> Wait before I Let me just let me rephrase. >> Katie, if you could go back up to he will need to tell Sky at the meeting next week. Just start right there and then highlight and then Thank you. I'll I'll rephrase. >> You're withdrawing that question? >> Yes, sir. I am. >> Understood. >> Um, so he's going to need to tell Sky next week about a year prior to his death something Eric told Ronnie allegedly, right, about his trips to Mexico. >> Your, your honor, there's no question there. >> I It ends in a question mark. >> Thank you, your honor. >> Right. >> It includes the word allegedly. >> Yes. Right. >> Any Hold on. Any other objection? >> Perhaps you could just reask it again. >> Sure. One more time. Miss Nester >> in the letter because you said you weren't sure. So, we're looking right at the letter. In the letter, she says at a meeting with Sky next week and she talks about Ronnie telling a story about a year prior to Eric's death, Ronnie being over watching football one Sunday and talking to him about his trips to Mexico. Right. Uh, that's what the document says. >> Okay. As the chief investigator of this case, did you ever go to Ronnie and say, "Hey, did this happen?" >> Uh, I believe investigators reached out to Ronnie. Um, I don't think it was me, but I believe one of the other investigators reached out to Ronnie for interview and were not able to talk to him. >> So, the answer is you were never able to confirm or deny with Ronnie whether this actually happened. I was not. >> Okay, let's go to the next page. Then she tells a story about Eric um putting drugs in her bag at the airlines right before they board. You see that? Can you highlight it, please, Katie? Now, that story has been verified by Ally Staking, her friend that testified before this jury. Correct. >> Objection, your honor. Foundation. Have you been sitting in this? >> The objection's overruled. >> Thank you, honor. Is that right? >> Could you rephrase the question? >> That story about Eric putting drugs in Cory's bag when they would travel and causing a fight was verified in this courtroom by Ellie Staking under oath. Is that correct? >> I listened to Miss Staking's testimony. She told of one incident when that happened. >> Okay. >> This says Eric Wood as if it happened multiple times. So, I don't know. I I just know what I heard Miss Staking testify to. >> Did you ever interview ask any of Cory's friends or family if they knew of situations where it had happened before? >> Where what had happened before? >> Where Eric had put drugs in Cory's luggage when they traveled. >> Um, I don't recall asking that specific question, but I think I heard about it coming up. I I I don't remember who the conversation was with, but I think I had heard something to this effect before. >> Is it Was it involving a trip to Mexico? >> Not specifically, no. >> Okay. Do you remember where the trip was involved? >> I don't. Sorry. >> So, at least someone in your investigation did at least suggest that they knew of another situation besides Hawaii where Eric did this. >> No, I don't know if it was a separate one or if they were referencing the same one. I don't know for sure. >> All right. All right. If we could go to the bottom of the highlight the bottom half for me. All right. There's references in here that Ronnie will have messages on his phone to prove Eric confided in him about getting high. Right. That's what this text says. >> As the chief investigator of this case, did you ever go check Ronnie's phone to see if those existed to verify this? >> I was made aware of this letter after May 8th. Um, >> of 2023. >> Of 2023. >> Okay. Like I said, um I believe investigators reached out to Ronnie uh to talk to him in general about the case and he denied uh letting us talk to him. So, no, I was never able to confirm this with his cell phone. >> So, we sure have sat in this courtroom and listened to a lot of testimony about search warrants to seize phones. You know how to do that, right? >> I do know how to do that. >> Didn't issue a search warrant to get Ronnie's phone to see if that happens to be true. >> No, but like I said, this information came to me Well, after May 8th, 2023. >> Okay, sir. That's three years ago, right? >> Yep. >> And isn't it true you issued a search warrant as recently as two months ago to search the house for I think the 10th or 11th time, didn't you? >> Yes. >> Okay. All right. And then can we go to the very last little bit about they never found pain pills or fentanyl in my house? at the bottom. >> Yes, please. Thank you. >> I can see that. >> You can see it. Great. Okay. Um, so again, this refers to the previous page where Eric allegedly told um Ronnie that he kept his drugs in an allergy bottle in his work truck so that Corey wouldn't find it. Right. >> Objection, foundation. That's not what the previous page says. >> We just go back to the previous page. I use the >> Absolutely. Katie, can you go back to the first page and find this section in there about where he kept his drugs? Let's see. Yep. >> Eric told Ronnie he keeps them in an allergy pill bottle in his work truck so I wouldn't find them. Isn't that what that says? >> The whole sentence says, "Eric told Ronnie he keeps them in an allergy pill bottle in his work truck so I wouldn't find them." >> And by the way, this was seized September 14th of 2023. Correct. >> I believe so. Yes. >> And at that point, had you revealed to Corey that you had found an empty hydrocodone bottle in Eric's nightstand the day of his death? Had you ever revealed that to her or her lawyer at this point? >> I personally didn't find the bottle. >> Okay. >> It was it was located on the night of Eric's death and was uh transported with his body to the Emy's office. >> There's no way for Cy to know that when she wrote this, right? >> Objection, your honor, speculation. >> Sustained. >> Okay, that's fair. All right, go back to what we were just talking about to the bottom of the second page. All right, the never found pain pills or finel in my house because they Eric hid it in an allergy bottle in the work truck. Right. So that connects to what we just saw on the first page of what he allegedly told Ronnie. Right. >> What is your question? Yes, I can see that this document says that. And the next sentence says, "And Cody emptied his emptied I can't Oh, I'm sorry. It's cut off on my screen, but not that one. I'm going to share a screen with the jury." "And Cody emptied out work truck within a week." We've heard that verified by Cody in this courtroom that he said to the jury under oath. Correct. While you were sitting in here, >> objection, foundation. I don't think that's what he said. >> Sustained. You got to rephrase. Did Cody come pick up the work truck within a few days of Eric's death? >> I'm not personally aware. >> Did you sit in this courtroom and hear him testify to that? >> Uh, I believe so. >> Okay. >> I Yes, I sat in the courtroom. Yes, I heard his testimony. I don't remember exactly what he said, but >> And just in case the jury has been so focused on that witness box that they don't notice what's happening back here, you've actually been in this courtroom every single day, every single minute, listening to every single person testify, right? >> Nearly. Yeah. >> Almost. >> Almost. >> Maybe a bathroom break here and there, which you're entitled. Okay. Um All right. Let's take that down. Now, I want to go back to Oh, by the way, the just last little thing on the walk the dog letter and then I swear I'll quit beating a dead horse. But the walk the dog letter to your knowledge, was the walk the dog letter ever delivered to Corey's mom, to her brother, to the lawyer, to anybody? Uh, I don't believe so. Not to my knowledge. >> Okay. Thank you. All right. Now, let's back up just a little bit to your entry into this case. Oh, your honor, I left my notes. May I please return to the table? I kind of too excited and ran up here too fast and left all my questions for you on the back. So, okay. I want to talk to you about the time. So, you basically before you even entered this case as the new head of the investigation, >> lead investigator. >> Lead investigator. Thank you so much. I want to use your terminology. Before that, you did what's called a trash cover at Carmen's house, right? >> We call it a trash rip. >> A trash what? >> Rip. >> Rip. Okay. I've never heard that. So, you did a trash rip at Carmen's house. Correct. >> Uh, you referenced a time frame. I don't remember what you said. Could you rephrase it? >> Would it refresh your memory that around February 21st of 2023, you searched Carmen's trash? It was probably around that time. Yeah. >> Before you were technically the lead investigator of this case. >> Uh that's possible. Yeah. >> And you said you found some foil, right? >> Yes. >> And that's usually an indication that someone's been maybe freebasing, heating it up in foil and then smoking it typically. >> I don't know know the term freebasing, but from my >> I'm from the 80s. I'm old, so you probably don't know that term, but >> from my experience, um, people will put a substance, any substance that they want to smoke on top of tin foil. They'll heat it from underneath with a lighter torch, and then they'll smoke the fumes that come off of the substance. >> Okay. And did you test the substances that you recovered from her um, trash that day? I believe we submitted some of those uh pieces of paraphernalia to be tested, but I don't remember if we ever got results for them. If they were only Nick tested, I I don't remember. I'd have to check records. >> Would it refresh your memory to say that only meth and heroin were recovered and no fentinyl? >> Like I said, I I can't remember without checking my records. You certainly can't tell the jury under oath that they got fentinel out of her d her her um trash that day, right? >> No, I don't remember us finding anything that was confirmed as fentanyl. >> Okay. And then at the end of March or the um end of March, I believe someone started tracking Carmen's car. Is that right? >> Correct. >> Was that you all or was that Mr. Gabler? >> Who was you all? >> The law enforcement. Sorry. Um, we did apply for a GPS tracker warrant for Carmen's vehicle. Yes. >> All right. >> And then you get to be assigned a lead investigator around April the 11th. >> I think it was in March sometime. I would have to check my notes again, but I believe it was about mid-March, early to mid-March. >> Okay. And the first um real step that you took as lead investigator, would it be fair to say that was when you applied for a warrant for Corey and Eric's cell phones? >> Oh, it's been just as long for me as everybody else. So, um I I remember that I applied for a warrant for Well, I'm sorry. I don't remember. The one of the first things I remember doing is applying for a a search warrant for medical records for Corey. >> For Corey, >> I believe so. Yeah. >> Okay. All right. Um, and did you also apply for medical records for Eric? >> I think those had already been uh requested or or seized subject to a warrant >> by Detective Woody. Actually, I think she did testify to that. I think that's right. >> I believe so. one of the investigators previous to my getting into the case. >> And then you decided to knock on Cory's door and interview her, right? >> Uh at one point I did. Yeah. >> And when you showed up to interview >> your honor be sustained, >> can I have the court's indulgence for just a moment? I need to go chat with my co-consel for just one second. >> No problem. All right. So, we are going to leave that topic alone and we're going to move forward. Okay. >> Okay. Um, also the other things that you did in the next in the mid to end of April of 2023, shortly after you're assigned to the case, you also looked at extracted Corey's cell phone, did you not? >> Yes. I I would have to verify the date, but yes. >> Okay. And when you extracted the phone, were you able to start looking at her texts and looking at her everything in her phone? Yes. Um, at this time we had just acquired our own forensic equipment. So, previously we relied on the RCFL for our uh digital forensic evidence extractions and and so forth. Um, we had just started getting our own forensic equipment and so I downloaded Cory's phone and I don't remember the format of the software to analyze it, but I do remember seeing um the text messages and the gaps in the text messages. >> Was that the first time you'd ever extracted a phone on the new equipment? >> I don't remember it was the very first, but it was one of the first times. Yes. And was there anybody who assisted you in doing that extraction? >> Yes, Miss Gibson did. >> Right. And are you or Miss Gibson certified to certified on Celebrite or the extraction gray key, whatever you use to extract it? >> Miss Gibson is. I'm not. >> All right. And then after you extracted Cory's cell phone, you interviewed Chelsea Barney, did you not? >> I did. >> And Chelsea's testified here. Chelsea was um Miss um Rich's dear friend from junior high, right? >> That's what I understood. Yes. >> And when you Chelsea came in to be interviewed, didn't you tell her that you had evidence that she and Corey had spoken the night of Eric's death? >> Chelsea did not come in anywhere when I interviewed her. I interviewed her in her home in Heber. >> Oh. Were you present when she did the interview at the sheriff's department? >> No, I was not. >> All right. So when you interviewed her at her home in Heber, did you tell Chelsea that you had evidence that she and Corey had spoken the night of Eric's death? >> Your your object a foundation as to what time frame are we talking about? >> We can lay a little foundation. >> Sure, I'm glad to. Can you tell us when you interviewed Chelsea and Heber? >> I can't give you an exact date. Um, my best guess is it was probably April sometime of 2023 >> before Cory's arrest date. Correct. >> And when you interviewed Chelsea in April of 2023, did you tell her, did you represent to her that you had evidence that she and Corey had spoken the night of Eric's death? >> Um, I don't think it was phrased that way. So, we had some interest in the timeline of their communication between Chelsea and Corey the night of Eric's death because when we looked at what was available on the phone, um it appeared that Chelsea and Corey texted every single day, like they were always talking with each other. And then there was a gap, I believe, between March 2nd and March 4th. So, that stuck out to me as unusual. Um, and I did bring that up with Chelsea and uh just asked her if she knew of any reason that there would be that gap. Uh, and then she was actually able to produce some documents from her cell carrier uh that we went over together and it looked like that matched up. >> So, you originally suspected that maybe she had deleted a conversation with Cory. that that's what it looked like initially is that that there was an unusual gap in communication between these two best friends that I understood them to be. >> Okay. And it turned out that was incorrect. >> Right. >> From what I'm remembering. Yes. So there's some confusion because there were just personal direct text messages between just Corey and Chelsea and then there was a group chat of all their friends, >> right? And it was hard to distinguish in the beginning which occurred when. And I think that's where some of the confusion came from. >> But ultimately, you were able to agree with Chelsea that she did not speak with Corey the night of Eric's death and did not delete any messages with Corey. Correct. >> I I couldn't find anything that suggested otherwise. >> Right. And then was Chelsea unhappy with the way that you all handled her interview? >> I don't know. >> To your knowledge, were you aware that she filed a complaint that she had been misled about her phone when she was being interviewed by your office? >> Um, I I was a >> Your honor, just objection foundation. I I I think timing is important here. I think council's confused about two different interviews. So, I think we need foundation on timing. >> Would you just be more specific about the complaint or what it was about with some uh month and year post? >> Shortly after Chelsea was interviewed, the time with you, and the follow-up time, did she file a complaint against your office? >> That's the problem. Can you break it down one at a time? They're two different events. Just sm Okay, I understand now, your honor. >> I'm going to get specific about timing. Okay, I think that'll solve the problem. Prior to your interview of Chelsea, was Chelsea asked to come in by Detective Woody? When you reviewed the file, were you aware that there had been a previous interview with Chelsea? >> I don't know if it was when I reviewed the file, but I was aware that Chelsea had come in for an interview and that was prior to when I talked to her. >> You're right. And after that interview with Detective Woody, did Chelsea file a complaint about being misled when she was brought in? Objection, your honor. Relevance. >> Help me out. I'm not sure where we're headed. >> Your honor, do you think it's relevant? >> Why don't you approach for a moment? >> Okay. >> Miss Nester, if you'd ask your next question, please. >> Yes, sir. Thank you. >> All right. And in addition to you interviewing Chelsea at her home in Heber sometime in midappril, you also interviewed a close friend of Eric um named Jake, right? >> Uh yes. >> All right. >> Jake Sorenson. >> And then you at the end of April is when Mr. Bledworth said on April 26th when you got the warrant and executed the warrant on Carmen Loberers's house. Right. We executed a warrant on Carmen Loberers's residence on April 26, 2023. >> Right. So between April 11th or mid end of March when you first joined the case and April 26 of 23, you possibly got a warrant for cell phones. You extracted uh Corey's phone, interviewed Chelsea and Jake, and then that's when the seizure happened at Carmen's house, right? >> I'm not sure what you're referencing about the April 11th date. >> That's the date on your report when you were assigned to the case. So, that's the date I've been using. But if you remember it earlier, >> that's the date that I wrote the report. >> No, I mean, it doesn't matter to me. It's It's not If you remember it was the end of March, we'll go with that. That's fine. I'll I'll >> Okay. >> Um and then you searched Carmen's house and then the next day is when we saw the interview that you had with Carmen at the jail, right? >> Yes. So Carmen's home was searched on April 26th. That that same day she was arrested for driving on suspended license. Uh and then the next day was the first time that we spoke with her at the Wasatch County Jail. So, first the search of her house, was any fentinel located in her house at all? >> Uh, no. >> No. >> Then when you go to interview her, do you know what time of the night or the day she was pulled over for driving with the suspended license? >> It was in the morning. >> And what time of day did you see her on the 27th? >> I uh I don't remember. >> Okay. >> I I would have to look at the time stamp on the video of the interview. and I watched the interview, but I never saw anyone ask her if she was under the influence while you were interviewing her. Did anyone ever ask her that question? >> I don't remember. I don't I don't think so, but I don't remember. And is it fair to say in that first interview before any promises have been made about leniency or anything, Carmen denied ever being asked for fentinel by Corey Richens? >> Yeah, I testified earlier that uh drug dealers in my experience when you interview them uh will initially >> Well, let me stop you. I'm asking about Carmen, not other drug dealers. I'm asking about Carmen Labber. Did she deny ever being asked by Cory Richens for fentanyl? >> Yeah, as most other drug dealers also do when I interview them. >> And did she share with you a personal tragedy that her daughter had ODed on fentinel? >> Yes. >> And did she tell you that because of that she didn't mess with fentinel? >> Objection, your honor. Hearay. >> I think she's asking about statements from the prior interview. Do you Let me ask a more specific question. Do you mind approaching for a moment? Uh, the objection is overruled. Ms. Nester, your next Did you get an answer to that question? I'm not sure you did. >> I'm not sure I did either. So, let me ask it again. Did Ms. Lober tell you that because of what happened to her daughter tragically that she did not mess with fentinel? She didn't deal with it? >> I believe those were her words. Yes. >> Right. And as a matter of fact, the first person the first people that ever injected the word fentinel into any conversation with with Carmen Lober were you and the other investigating officers. Correct. It came out of y'all's mouth first, not hers. >> Objection here on our argument. >> I overruled. If you understand what she's referring to by y'all. Go ahead. >> I'm sorry. I Sorry. I didn't >> I'm still focused on the previous question because I thought there was going to be a follow-up question about >> my impression. >> No. So, the first people that mentioned fentinel in the interview were law enforcement, not Miss Lober. Correct. >> Uh yeah, I believe so because I think we told her in that first interview that uh while investigating Eric Rich, we told them that we were investigating Eric Richen's death and that he had died of a fentinel overdose. All right. >> And then you went back and interviewed her again and again and again, right? >> Five more distinct separate interviews. >> And I believe that I was I wrote this in quotes because I try to be precise. I believe that when we were listening to the recording, and the jury will um I trust the juror's memories on this, but the phrase, "You're the biggest piece. You're the biggest piece." Right. That was said. Yep. >> And that meant you're the biggest piece of this puzzle, >> right? >> Uh in context, I'm trying to remember what was said before that. Um I I I think there was a uh Miss Carmen or I'm sorry, Miss Lobber made a reference to can we just like put all of the pieces together in front of us so that we can see how it happened. >> Actually, it wasn't can we. It was can you put the pieces together for me? Correct. >> Yeah. Something like that. >> And then go ahead. I didn't mean to interrupt you. >> Yeah. And so in context, um, yeah, we said, yeah, you're the biggest piece of that set of information that we're trying to figure out. >> And you also, and I wrote this in quotes, and hopefully the jury will recall this the way I do. You hold all the cards. >> Yeah. As in she had all the information that we didn't know. And we saw her struggling and telling you repeatedly that she could not recall dates, she could not remember certain things. Is that right? >> She told us several times that she had difficulty remembering um and that >> the more >> and that the more that we brought to her and showed her things that were corroborated, the more she remembered and the better recollection she had. And then within less than a few days of when you when she finally gave you what you needed that there was fentinel involved in her transactions. Within a few days is when you issued the warrant to arrest Corey. Right. We interviewed Carmen between April 27th and May 13th. Uh the warrant for Cory's arrest was issued by third district court on May 8th. >> But when was it requested? >> May 3rd. Does that refresh your >> I don't request search warrants. I mean arrest warrants. >> You signed Oh. Uh you're you're right. That's done by the county attorney's office. Correct. >> They filed charges in the case and requested an arrest warrant. We were made aware of it on May 8th >> within days of Carmen Lobber agreeing with you that Fentinel was involved. >> May 8th falls between April 27th and May 13th. Yes. >> Okay. Now, I want to talk about um your investigation into um Oh, by the way, let me back up. Since you have become the lead investigator in this case, um, have you ever located the hydrocodone bottle that was found on the nightstand next to Eric? >> Can you define located? I know where it's been at certain points throughout the investigation. >> Okay. >> We don't currently have it in our possession right now. >> That's all I need. I want to talk about the Valentine's Day investigation. All right. >> Okay. >> Um Katie, can you bring up just for the witness only, your honor, exhibit 3-13D as in Delta? >> Do you recognize this exhibit? >> Yes. states exhibit 3-13D. >> And is it fair to say that this exhibit is a visual um clip of the locations where Eric was on February the 14th of 2022 based on geoloccation in his phone? >> Objection. You're under foundation. >> I don't know what else to ask. I don't know whether this witness would have the basis to know that. So sustained for now, if you can lay some >> I understand what you're asking. As you've been preparing for this case, have you been reviewing the demonstrative evidences, demonstrative exhibits that the state prepared to get ready for trial? >> Not all of them and not this one. I've just seen it uh in in court. >> Okay. Did you, as the head investigator of this case, investigate Eric's whereabouts on the days of February 14th, 2022? >> Uh, yes, in the sense that um Mr. Culture Demos, the um digital forensics expert that the county hired uh helped us in the analysis of the phones and he at some point told us the data that was in the phone regarding Eric's location on the 14th. >> All right. So, without revealing anything that Mr. Costraimo said, what did you learn about Eric's locations that informed how you acted in the future in your investigation? >> Well, objection, Foundation. I don't know how he would know that without hear without hear. Well, it's possible that he heard it prior to being in court and to the extent that is is to inform what he did next, we can accept it not for the truth of the matter. Shall we proceed in that way? >> Yes, your honor. >> Let's see what the response is. >> Go ahead. >> Uh, just so I'm clear, you're asking if I'm aware of Eric Richen's location on February 14th just based on >> the whole digital evidence. >> Yep. And the whole investigation, whatever you did. your question was uh at least tied in some way to Mr. Kotraimos. >> Okay, we'll start with that. So, based on your your working with Mr. Costraimos looking at the uh digital evidence that you went through in this case, do you have a knowledge of Eric's locations on February 14th of 2022? >> Maybe pause for a minute if we take this approach for a minute. >> Did May please the court, >> please? Did you receive information from Mr. Costraimos about Eric's locations on February 14th, 2022 that informed your investigation in any way? >> I I believe so. The the the truth is I don't remember 100% for sure if and when I knew about location data from Eric's device. um throughout the investigation. I I would have to go back and review reports uh especially Mr. Cotra Deeos's reports. Um >> can we um your understand? >> I just don't I just don't remember. >> Can we see if this document refreshes your memory as to that? >> This one or different? >> Yes. Can we go through the pages very slowly and give him a minute to see if it refreshes his recollection? >> Yeah. Objection. Foundations. I think we're at the same spot we started with a few minutes ago. >> Well, we're showing different pages. He testified that he never seen the first one prior to being in the court. It's unclear whether that's true for the remaining pages that the witness is being shown right now. I imagine we're about to find out. >> Thank you, your honor. Do you need us to do it again or did you see them all? >> Yeah, I saw them. >> Does that refresh your recollection about Mr. Richen's locations on February 14th or what you knew about them? >> It it doesn't. Um, this demonstrative Mr. Kotraimos created and the first time I saw any of these slides was in the court and like I said, he may have shared that information during our investigation. I just don't remember. >> Okay. So, M. Richens is here today on charges that she attempted to kill her husband on February 14th of 2022. Is that right? >> One of the charges. >> Uh, I believe so. Yes. >> And you're the head investigator of this case? >> Yes. >> Did you take any steps to confirm or deny Mr. Richen's movements on the day of February 14th of 2022 when he was allegedly attempted a murder was attempted on his life. >> Our team did. We hired an expert in digital forensics. >> So, what do you know about his locations on that day? >> That's what I'm saying. What I know and what I remember are probably two different things. What what I knew at some point throughout the investigation is that Mr. Mr. Coach Deimos probably found whatever location data was available on his phone and shared that with investigators. I just don't remember the contents of what that what those said. >> So, as you sit here right now under oath in a homicide trial, you cannot tell this jury that the what Mr. uh Richens did on the day he was allegedly attempted to be murdered. You can't tell them. >> That's that's >> foundation. The question is you can't say what Mr. which is dead. That's there's no foundation for that. >> That's not the question I asked. >> General, I'm sorry. Council, just ask a more precise question. And if it needs to be three more precise questions, that's fine. >> Thank you. I will. >> The foundation objection is sustained. >> You cannot say under oath what your investigation showed about where Mr. Richens was on the day that someone apparently attempted to murder him. I could after a two-minute conversation with the digital forensics expert that we hired because I just don't retain that information. Well, >> so you don't know. >> I don't remember. >> You don't know right now. And we're in trial right now. Do you know right now? >> Objection, your honor. Ask an answer. >> I'll withdraw. >> That one was a little oversane. >> I'll withdraw. >> Speaking of that, were you ever able to confirm or track Mr. Richens and place him? Did you ever check and see if he ever went to the house in Midway on his geoloccation? Did you ever ask anyone to do that? >> Objection foundation when? >> I can ask him if he asked anyone to do it. >> Well, that's a different question. So, the question you just asked was very broad as to time frame. Foundation objection is sustained, but please ask a more precise question. Did you ever ask an expert, hey, can you see if Eric Richens ever went to the Midway house where Carmen allegedly left drugs in a fire pit? So, I was the lead investigator on the case. I was not the only one making decisions. Um, I am aware that someone in our investigative team directed Mr. Coachimos to look into Eric's location from his device. Yes. Are you able to tell this jury if Eric Richens was anywhere near the Midway house around the time that Ms. Lober claimed she left drugs there? >> That's a broad date range. Um, so I I don't know. I don't have that data in front of me. >> Okay. All right. is it true that through all your um interviews with Carmen and your attempts to corroborate what she was telling you, at least one of the times that Carmen allegedly purchased drugs from Mr. Croer and brought them to Corey was after Eric was dead. >> Her testimony was not that. She didn't remember it that way. We found digital evidence that suggested that. >> So after Eric died, it is your understanding that there's still drug dealing going on between Corey and Miss Lobber. I am aware that Miss Lobber uh conducted a similar transaction to ones prior to Eric's death after his death with Miss Richens. >> On that that's the occasion I believe and you were here if I'm wrong please correct me but that's the occasion where Miss Lobber claims that Cory had to write her a check right? >> Yes. And the check was written out on the Corey Richens realy checkbook, right? As you recall from your investigation. >> Yeah, I believe it was a K. Richen's realy check. >> Did you do any corroboration or investigation into whether or not Carmen Lober did actual work for Cory Richens realy that week? Uh yeah, I mean we we talked to Carmen about um her relationship with Corey in always and she said she had done some work for Corey um in several different capacities. As far as that week, I don't know that we ever got into those details. >> That was the week that they were about to close on the Midway Mansion. Is that correct? >> Uh what date are you referring to? The date of the date that um Oh, I'm sorry. Strike that. That's fair. The week before she got the check is the week that the Midway mansion closing allegedly happened. Right. Right after Eric's death. >> Your honor. Objection. The the air. This is testify. >> You restate the whole question. I've forgotten it already. >> The house on Legacy Drive had closed in between Eric's death and when Ms. Lobber allegedly got this check. Correct. between Eric's death and when she got the check, >> right? >> Uh, as far as my understanding, yes. >> Did you ever talk to the realtor and say, "Hey, did Carmen Lober clean up that house the week before it closed?" >> Which realtor? >> The realtor for the Legacy House? Uh, >> I'm not aware who that is. >> You don't even know who was selling that house? >> No. >> So, I guess the answer is no. You never made any attempt to corroborate whether Carmen did work that week. I don't know that the realtor wouldn't know the answer to that question, but I never talked to them. >> Okay. And speaking of the Midway Mansion closing, we've had some testimony here about some closing documents that were signed and dated either the day after Eric died or a couple of days after Eric died. Did you hear that testimony? >> I believe so. Yeah. >> Did you ever go to the people that conducted the closing and confirm whether Corey was present at that closing in person? No. >> Are you aware that you can do closings on houses without being present in person? >> I know nothing about realy. >> Okay. Well, then I'll let you have a pass on that. Did you ever do any determination as to whether those documents were signed through what's called docuign electronically? >> I'm sorry. Can you say the question again? the closing documents for the legacy property. Did you ever do any confirmation or investigation into whether those documents were signed via docu sign or electronically without being with a wet signature and a pen? >> Um the investigation into the signing on the house and the other financial documents I wasn't a part of. Uh that was through the prosecution's office's investigator uh and their experts, their forensic accountants. I wasn't really part of that >> as lead investigator. You can't testify that that was ever done here today. >> I can't I have no knowledge of it. >> Okay. You did um you were involved in at least eight of the 10 search warrants that were issued on this house cuz I think the first two were detective. >> What do you mean by involved? you were lead investigator once those warrants were being executed. >> I think the first two were Woody, so I don't want to credit those. >> The title of lead investigator doesn't necessarily mean what I did in in those circumstances. I I guess I would ask you to be a little more specific about what you're asking. >> How many warrants are you aware were were executed on the house on the Rich's home? >> I believe around 10. I I don't remember the exact number. And in 10 different times of searching, was there ever any fentinel recovered? throughout the 10 search warrants. Um, anything that was recovered during those search warrants that we suspected may contain fentanyl, have traces of fentanyl, um, were sent to the state lab. >> Okay. >> Um, we got results back from the state lab. There there were some items that Okay. Do we want to move on? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> In the 10 search warrants that were executed on this house, did you ever find any cups, glasses, straws that contained any traces of fentinel on them? Let me be clear. I I wasn't present at every single time that the house was searched. Um, so the answer is investigators in my team or investigators from the Summit County Sheriff's Office did not find cups, straws, the things you mentioned that contain fentanyl. No. >> As you sit here today, can you even tell this jury the exact time that Eric Richens died? >> I don't know that anybody can. Can you even Can you tell this jury how fentinyl got inside of Eric Origins >> based on evidence? Not speculation or theory, but evidence. >> I know it was orally ingested. >> And that's all you know, right? >> That's not all I know, but I I know it was orally ingested. To this date, have you ever recovered any of the pills that Carmen Lober allegedly gave to Corey Richens to test to see what they are >> that I can confirm for sure are the pills that passed from Carmen's hand to Cory's hand. >> Correct. >> No. >> Okay. Prior to Carmen Lobber Lobers's second, third, fourth interview, there was never an issue a warrant issued for Cory's arrest prior to that date. Is that correct? >> I'm sorry. Can you say the question again? >> Prior to the interviews with Carmen Lobber, there was never that was the first time you all requested an arrest. Let me say cuz I won't say y'all. The first time there was ever a formal request to arrest Corey Richens was after the interview with Carmen Lober. Correct. >> After at least the first three interviews with Carmen Lober, we had enough information that we believed met a probable cause standard for the arrest of Miss Richens. >> Okay. We gave that information to the prosecutors and they filed charges in this case. They then requested an arrest warrant be issued from third district court. I executed that warrant by arresting Miss Richens. >> Have you ever heard of hair follicle testing? >> Uh I think I've heard that term. I don't know what you're referring to. >> What's your knowledge of it? uh that people much smarter than me can test hair follicles uh for what it can tell you about the body's biology >> specifically >> about the extent of what I know >> specifically isn't it fair you've been a narcotics officer for a long time >> objection your honor relevance scope >> this is beyond the scope >> your honor goes to the investigation or lack thereof >> but beyond the scope of the version or the version of the uh direct examination regarding investigation. You have other options to get into this. It's just not right now. >> Okay. >> Court's indulgence for just a moment, your honor. >> Of course. Um, When you searched Carmen's house, did you test any pills that were found in Carmen's house? >> I don't remember. Uh, that would be a better question for Miss Gibson. She handled all the evidence recovered from that search. >> You were aware through your investigation that shortly before Eric's death, he was on a hunting trip in Mexico. Is that right? >> Yes. And the very last thing Eric ever did that we can establish before he passed away was a Google search, right? >> I don't know if that's an accurate statement, but I know that um a Google search was found on Eric's phone the night he died. Um, that was I think it was searching directions or how how far it was from Utah to Sonora, Mexico, I think. >> Right. >> If you had to drive, how long it would take to drive? >> Okay. And did you do any investigation into where Eric went hunting when he was on his hunting trip in Mexico? Where was it? >> Yeah, I don't remember the name of the outfitter. Um Todd Rice was the contact that we had with the hunting outfit in Mexico. >> But I mean where in Mexico? >> Was it the Sonora area? >> I I think so. >> Okay. Also, according to Miss Lobber, she estimated that each time she got pills that apparently she says she gave to Corey, they were 15 to 30 pills per transaction. Is that accurate? >> Um her statements? Your honor, the foundation is to to to when during interview during testimony dur during when >> just provide a little more foundation for the qu or a little more detail for the basis of the question. >> What is your understanding of how many pills were involved in each transaction that ultimately allegedly went to Corey? >> Approximately >> uh each time approximately 15 to 30, >> right? And that would be a total again math. But if you have 30 pills times 4, that's 120 pills. >> That math maths for me, right? >> And you were in the in the courtroom when the Well, strike that. Did you give Carmen rides to meetings with her attorney in your car? after she agreed to cooperate with you. >> We Yeah, we helped transport Carmen when she couldn't get somewhere. It wasn't usually in my car. Um it was in Detective Maynards, but yeah. >> How often did you guys give Carmen rides places? >> It was only a couple times. >> Do you talked to her on the phone? >> Yeah. >> Check in with her. >> Mhm. >> Went by and saw her at her house. >> Hold on. We need answers to I'm sorry. >> You got to say yes cuz they can't type. Mhm. >> Right. >> Okay. So, what was the answer to the last question about you called her on the phone? >> Yes. >> You would go by and see her in person. >> Well, not just like to see her, but like if we needed to get in contact with her in person for some reason. Yeah. Sometimes we would go to her house or her work, wherever she was at. >> And this relationship or these interactions that you had with her extended from the time she agreed to cooperate with you till literally she showed up in court. Right. If you're referring to myself and Detective Maynard, yes, because Detective Maynard contacts and and uh deals with Carmen a lot more than I do. >> Okay. Getting close. I'm sorry. Thank you for your patience. Oh, okay. Um, I want to talk about the Lord. If they're gifs or gifs, I don't know. But GIFs that have come in, those pictures of the goofy pictures that they said that Corey accessed the morning of the 4th, right? >> I'm sorry. Who's they? >> All right, I'll be more specific. The GIFs, you saw them come up on the screen. They were like joke gifs, right? that um it was testified to that Cory's phone accessed them at all at the same time the morning of a March 4th, morning Eric died. Right. >> What I understand about the gifts is that there were I think three different ones and that they were somehow accessed on Cory's device. Um, the technical jargon of the digital forensics is whatever Mr. Cotradimos testified to. >> I'm with you on that. So clearly, I would imagine as the lead investigator, if you're investigating a potential homicide, would it be important to you to look at the very last conversations that the deedent and the suspect had right before the death? >> They could be part of it. Did you do that? >> I believe I did. I don't remember what the contents were, but >> Katie, can you please pull up um J1? J1. And this is only for Yeah. Okay. And make it a little bit bigger so that Mr. um that detective O'Drriscoll can see it clearly. And take your time looking at this. and I'm going to ask you some questions about it. Do you recognize these texts? >> Keep going quick, Katie. >> I recognize that they are from Eric's device. Yeah. >> All right. And they're between whom? >> Uh, Eric Richens and Corey Richens. >> And what is the date, sir? >> Can you blow them up? >> Sorry, I'll have to zoom in. >> Sorry. March 3rd, 2022. So >> this is the day literally his last day on Earth and it's the conversation he had with his wife, right? >> Wow. That's what it looks like. >> All right. >> I have to look at all the time stamps to give accurate context for that, but >> I I'm really sorry. I didn't mean to interrupt you. Certainly you reviewed this as part of your investigation. Uh, probably. I I'm not remembering them, but your >> honor, this I I have not looked at every single text message on Eric's phone and on Cory's phone. >> Sure. But like the day he died would be an kind of an important day to check out, right? >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, do you recall, >> like I said, that's that's where we got the uh information about um the the hunting guide in Mexico. >> So, yeah, we were looking at that information. So then, your honor, may I please admit this as defense exhibit 3000? I don't even know what we're on yet. >> 3010. Is it 10? It's 305. We're a little behind. Thank you, Miss Britney. I appreciate that. We move to admit it. >> Well, objection foundation or authenticity. I'm I'm also looking at the Maybe approach. There's Yeah. >> Can we go to the Is this the first page, Kitty? >> Let's pause there. I uh there will likely be additional questioning of detective odorresccoll tomorrow morning from both defense and the state. Uh that additional questioning we do not have time for today. So we'll be recessing for the day between uh now and tomorrow morning at 8:30 a.m. As always, please don't talk about the case with anyone. Please do not allow anyone to talk about it with you. Please do not read, watch, or listen to any coverage of the case. Please do not do any research about the case. Please travel safe. folks. Have a seat. >> Anything else on the record today? Mr. Bledworth? >> No, your honor. >> Ms. uh Nester? >> No, your honor. Detective, I need you to be back here uh at 8:30 tomorrow morning. Agreed. >> Yes, your honor. >> Very good. Ladies and gentlemen, we'll be in recess until 8:30 in the morning. Thank you. Just real quick. >> My apologies. >> Um if there's some kind of urgent matter they need to discuss with him as the chief investigator, I guess I'm just asking we all be on honor. They don't discuss with him his testimony at all. But if they need to talk to him about something, just let me know and we'll we'll probably agree to that. So just if there's an urgency in the middle of the night or something. >> Any problem with that, Mr. Bleworth? >> No problem, your honor. >> Okay. Very good. We'll be in recess until 8:30 a.m. Thank you.