Well, we're not going to give you We're not going to give you anything that's on our person that you don't have a right to. So, if you detain us you know, you got there's you got you have to you have to have you know, certain that's certain constitutional safeguards to do that. But, you're going to detain us then hang us. Okay. You both are under arrest for obstructing government operations. On February 23rd, 2017, attorneys Victor Revell and Megan Garcia are standing with their client Lloyd Edwards in a courtroom. They are approached by Blount County Sheriff deputies Sue Ashworth and Brian K. Ratliff. They are looking for his two cell phones because they allegedly contain proof of Edwards abusing his wife and daughter. All right. You The warrants that you all have are for his person That's right. and for his vehicle. That's correct. So, he has given the phone that's on his person. Okay. I have video of him handing phone to you, you handing phone to her and it's in the satchel right now. Yeah. You all do have that, but that is not on When you all there No, I'm not here to ask Brian That was not on his person. Oh, no. I'm not talking about that. All right, then. We'll go the other route to get that other phone. The deputies have a warrant to search Edwards and his vehicle. Edwards hands him his car keys and gets patted down, but he has already given the phones to his attorneys. Okay, we're standing here and we we have it on video that he handed his um cell phone to his attorney. Uh one and then handed it to another and it's in the satchel that is right here. Well, are we being detained? At this moment in time. They're not denying it. We have it on video. detain you until we determine the next course of action. Well, well, I have this person and vehicle. The officers don't have a warrant to search the attorneys. Okay. Um Okay. We either need the phone out of the satchel or we will have to detain you and get a search warrant So, you're going to take Well, Okay. Uh Well, we're not going to give you We're not going to give you anything that's on our person that you don't have a right to. So, if you detain us you know, you got there's you got you have to you have to have you know, certain that's certain constitutional safeguards to do that. But, you're going to detain us then hang us. But, they unlawfully arrest the lawyers for defending their client. But, when these two lawyers hear it's unlawful for them to get arrested, just look at their grins. We're not going to run, so and you all are telling us we are being detained. Is that right? Um that's right. I'll be there in Camera you all are being detained. Okay. You both are under arrest for obstructing government operations. Obstructing government operations. That's correct. This is definitely unlawful arrest. But, we're under arrest, we're under arrest. Yeah, we're under I don't know what you're getting in trouble for. Sir, you wouldn't I'm going to make sure you don't have no weapon on you. Get out of Of course not. Okay. Just want to make sure the phone is We have it on video. We have not We have not broken the law. So, if you're arresting us I'm being arrested. I'm being arrested for obstructing government operations. That's correct. Let me take out this this right here. Uh if you don't mind, please keep it in your pocket. That way it'll be locked. If you don't mind. Are you sure you all want to arrest two lawyers? For for this charge? You sure you all want to Are you talking to the law? I am talking to the law. I am the law. Okay. And this is And you And what's Who Who are you? I'm Sue Ashworth. Sue Ashworth. That's correct. And this is Brian Ratliff. And you And you're arresting us on her orders? That's correct. Okay. Luckily, they win their lawsuit and more clients. Remember this, the Constitution through the Fourth Amendment protects people, such as attorneys, from unreasonable searches and seizures by the government. This law professor and TV producer is pulled over by a cop. The cop asks him for his license and registration number, but he doesn't want to hand them over at first. Do you have a driver's license, please, insurance and registration? I sure do. Okay. Is there a reason why you pulled me over? Yes, there is. You ran a red light when you uh ran at University and a rule and then you made an improper turn right here when you cut the car off. That was lane number L2. Do you have a driver's license, please? I do, but it's it's in here. You're not going to be scared if I reach it, are you? Do you have any weapons? Well, I don't answer any questions, but you can clearly see inside of my vehicle. I have camera equipment. I'm a TV producer. Okay. Do you have a driver's license, please? I do. Could you grab it for me, please? But, I was I did a U-turn where the road was closed. I just want you to notice that. All right. Could you get me a driver's license, please? I can, but I got to reach in here and I don't want you to be scared. Just give me a driver's license. This is the Molen Commission. I teach constitutional law. Okay. Just just so you understand what you're doing here. Be really careful your steps here. Give me your driver's license, please. You can't You can't say I ran a red light when the road was closed and I didn't see the road was closed. I took a right and there was nowhere to go. I saw, but I also saw that you were stopped at a red light and you turned left at a red light and then I also saw right here you turned left from lane number L1 and straight to lane number two and cut off the other vehicle that was in I didn't cut off any vehicles, officer. Don't make things up. I got a I got a can't I got a camera in here, so don't say things that aren't true. I didn't cut I didn't cut off anybody. I didn't looking for your registration. drive recklessly. The law professor is telling the cop he is harassing him. He ends up handing over his personal documents to the cop except for his car registration. Then a second cop pitches up. This rookie gets a well-deserved lesson from someone who knows the law. Let me see if it's Let me just take a look and see. Sir. Okay. It's on the other side. Let me get my right right here on the passenger side. I can get it. I don't need you. I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't need your help. You can I'm not a criminal, so just get the [ __ ] off of me, brother. I'm going to I'm going to have you wait in your car. You're going to get my registration like he asked me to do. I'm going to have you wait in your car while I do giving me a lawful order. I teach constitutional law. Be very careful what you do. Okay, this is this is for this is officer safety under Terry versus Ohio. I'm Pennsylvania versus Mims right now. I'm outside of my car. The 1978 holding. Are you sure I'm allowed to go over and get my registration as he asked me to do? Stop demanding Look what he's doing. He's demanding me around. This is not a lawful order. No, because I said don't tell me what to do. You don't understand. If you make one mistake here, I will go after you. Okay. So, I'm going to have I'm going He asked me to get the registration. I'm getting it. I'm asking you to wait in your car. No. The answer is no. The answer is no. You cannot demand that I do unlawful orders. I teach constitutional law. Be very careful, officer. Okay. Nobody has asked you to exit the vehicle. Okay, I'm getting the registration. Why are you in my face? I don't understand this. I'm going to walk You want to follow me? He wants the registration. I want to get it for him. you to keep waiting right here in your driver's seat. Listen. See, this is the problem with police in America. This guy right here is an authoritarian piece of [ __ ] This guy right here, he's trying to demand me around. What he doesn't understand is he doesn't have dominion over me. I'm not under arrest and since I'm clearly going to identify I don't have any weapons, now he can't Terry stop me. Do you see the difference? If If he didn't know I didn't have weapons, then he could handcuff me. But, because now Now, if he does handcuff me, he's working outside of the color of law and that's US Code 18, Section 242. You can't let tyrants like this push you around. He literally was physically touching me when he didn't have that badge and gun, he would never do that to me, ever, cuz he knows better. He knows what would happen. Don't you? Without that badge and gun, we both know what would happen. You're the beta male. I'm the alpha male. And you know that. And you're scared. And you know you are. That's why you have your hand on your gun, cuz you're scared. Look. He's scared, as he should be, because a real man face me man to man. Not without the badge and gun, you see? He He put his hands on me and physically touched me cuz he's working inside of the color of law. Now, if he puts me in handcuffs after I showed him that I don't have a weapon, that's an illegal detainment, which means I could sue his ass personally. He no longer has qualified immunity. But, see, he's a Neanderthal. He doesn't have any other skill sets. The only skill set he has is to be an authoritarian. Like he doesn't want me to go over and get my registration, not because they don't need the registration, because he wants to dominate me and control me. But, you see, he's actually a coward. You can see it on his face. He's terrified. But, the cops made a mistake. They pulled over the wrong guy. That was what citation. You have to take care of that by the What's my citation for? red light violation and improper turn. The back of the citation I can see the road was closed back there. Oh, go go go to hell, dude. You guys are both authorit- Oh, can I walk over here now? Are you still scared, copper? Are you still scared? Oh, we're going to have to stop you right there. Have a good night. you still scared? Yeah, coward. See you next time, coward. In England, a cop pulls over a solicitor for speeding and asks her to hand over her license and registration. Do you know why I pulled you over today? Well, actually, I do, because I wasn't speeding and my car's in perfect condition. know when you take off from being in a standstill, if you go too fast Mhm. that's accelerating too fast, which is what you've just done. Right. Yeah, sorry. Yes, that was my mistake. Okay. So, are we okay then? Am I okay to go because I was I was barely over the speed limit. I would like your license and registration. She hands it to him, but he wants her to step out of her car. She knows the law better than the cop does and refuses. He belittles her, her job, her accent. She informs him that she is a solicitor, but he doesn't believe her. Thank you. Can you step out of the vehicle for me? Rolling down the window to talk to you is all I'm actually legally required to do. There's no reason for me to leave the vehicle. Are you sure about that, little miss know-it-all? Cuz uh you think you know the law better than me. I'm a trained police officer. Okay. Well, that's good. I'm a solicitor. So, yeah, I do know the law. about that? Yes, I am sure about that. I've I've done several years of training in London. I have my LPC. I'm that right? Yes, I'm now Would there be any point? You're an assistant to the best. Come on, we both know it. You're just using big words and you're making up that you're a lawyer. No, you you're expecting me to get out of the car when there's no reason for me to do so. Please stop, sir. Who has asked you to get out of your vehicle? Therefore, because I have asked you, you have to get out of your vehicle. No, I think you'll find Read up on the law. I I have rolled down the window, I have spoken with you. That's all I'm legally required to do. So, is this is this what you learn at your big fancy law firm? I'm sorry, look, I apologize. I accelerated a little too swiftly, yes, but come on, I was I was barely over the speed limit. So the speed limit. I think we can So, no, no, no, I'm going to ask you again. Will you get out of your vehicle, please? Okay, I'm sorry, I'm not prepared to get out of the vehicle because there's no need for me to get out of the vehicle. The solicitor asks the cop to call her law firm, but he feels disrespected. He is looking for any excuse to arrest her, but she doesn't back down. I'm happy to I've given you my details. You know, I mean, call call my office if you want to check. Me calling them up is not going to prove anything. Well, you have my card. Feel free to call, speak to the boss. You know what? Don't get your knickers in a twist. Uh, have you got your MOT certificate? It's actually not in the car at the moment. I had it serviced last week and I haven't yet put the updated certificate in the glove compartment. Right, you know what? I'm I'm not happy with this uh this tone of voice that you're giving me. Hm. I'm an officer of the law. Yes, I think we've established that. If you continue to be disrespectful to me, I'll bring you in to the station. You won't, actually, because I think you'll find that section D protects motorists by giving them 7 days in which to produce their MOT certificate. I don't have to give it to you now. It's not in the car, I have 7 days with which to find it. I do know where it is. I'll bring it in to the police station. So, can we leave it there? Well, no, because I've asked you to get out of your vehicle multiple times and you're refusing. That's right, I am refusing as is my right. My legal right. Well, you're very welcome to arrest me, but I I think my Ahem. I think you'll find my big boss at my law firm will come down on you like it's a ton of bricks. Ton of bricks on me? Mhm. This imaginary law firm? There's the imaginary card. Why don't you give them an imaginary call? This guy is pulled over by a cop, but refuses to be searched according to the Fourth Amendment, the right of the people to be secure against unreasonable searches and seizures. Not bad. Just so I can concentrate on what you're saying. Okay, I don't consent to any searches. I just want to I'm not going to search you. I don't consent to any seizures, either. Okay. In order to stop me, you have to suspect me of a crime. Can you get your supervisor here? He is on the way. Okay, thank you. The cop takes away the man's firearm. He tells the cop that it is illegal and asks to speak to his supervisor. Okay, well, like I said before, I'm concerned. It's a public safety issue. So, I'm here to make sure everyone's all set. Make sure you're all set. Okay, so I just need to issue ID and then we'll call it a day. No, sir. You're not going to give me your ID? Unless you are issuing me a summons as 17A, 15A requires, then Do you suspect me of being a felon? I don't know you. Okay, if you don't suspect me of being a felon, then I would like my gun back and I would like to proceed on my way. In order to carry a gun, you're not allowed to be a felon. Correct, but unless you suspect me of being a felon, there's no reason for you to stop me. There is a reason to stop you. Unless you suspect me of a crime as Terry v. Ohio, Delaware v. Prouse uh requires you to have a suspicion of crime before you detain an individual. Brown v. Texas does not does not allow you to stop an individual and demand their ID. Can I get your first name so I can speak to you on a on a person-to-person basis here? Uh no. And unless you have a reasonable suspicion that I'm committing a crime, you can't detain me. I have to be free to leave. It has to be a consensual encounter, sir. The cop admits he stopped the man because of the firearm. The man refuses to give him ID. The cop gives the firearm back. We see a guy walking down the street carrying Yep. Is that the only reason why you stopped me? Yes, that I'm carrying. Okay, in that case, I want you to refer you to Dabiri v. US. Dabiri v. Dabiri v. US says that a firearm, where legally carried, cannot be the only cause for reasonable suspicion for a for a stop. Am I free to go? Okay, can I have my gun back? Thank you. This Uber driver lawyer is pulled over by the police. The driver doesn't understand what he has done wrong. Got pulled over and surrounded by police. You're I don't know. Our car's up to date, all set. Made a wrong turn somewhere. The cop asks if he can do a search. The driver declines. The Fourth Amendment protects him. So, you had an Uber driver you're living off the rest of your life now? Yes, sir. All right, you said you went over to pick up the check? Yeah. Let me see the check. The guy didn't have it. He didn't have it? No, sir. Okay, do you have anything on you, sir, or anything in the vehicle that you need to be concerned about? No, nothing at all. if I look? I do mind cuz I haven't done anything, but I don't mind. Okay. The cop accuses him of driving someone to a drug house, but the Uber driver is just doing his job. His customer has just gotten himself arrested. Cops want to arrest him, too. What you're you're you're leaving a drug house? Okay, I I don't know. I'm I showed you my Uber app. Somebody just had me drive them to somewhere and drive them back. a drug house, you drop somebody off, and then they come right back to your car. And he says he went to go pick up a check. Okay. And he has It It has nothing to do with me and it's my car. If you want to search him by his permission, that's fine. you, Mr. Relation, you need to be concerned about? Not a thing, sir. All right, why don't you step out so I can check you real quick. And uh my passenger's getting arrested. Hey, bud, turn that off, okay? No, I'll keep recording, thank you. It's my right. Don't record me, you got me? I I will look, you're a police officer on duty, I can record you. And if you come to this side of the vehicle, I can keep recording you. I can keep recording you. For recording you, I'm sitting in my car holding my phone. What is What is the law? What are you What are you arresting me for? I'm sitting here in my car, I'm just recording in case anything happened. I'm surrounded by five police officers. I'm scared right now. I'm not being a jerk. I want to I'm recording it in case anything happens. They're not searching my car You're not searching my car. Bring the K9s. I don't care, man. Like I know my rights. I hope so. I know I know what the law is. I know the law. I'm an attorney, so I would hope I know the law. And an Uber driver? And here, man. You want my bar card? Sir, can you tell me what this new law is that I'm not allowed to record? I'm sorry? He He said that there's a law I'm not allowed to record the police. I just wanted to know what that new law is. Well, you said you were an attorney, correct? I am. I've never heard of this law that you're not allowed to record the police anymore. It must be brand new. Okay, well, they just recently passed it, so Re like super recently? Seems like a strange law. I I showed him my waybill. I really am just driving Uber for some extra money. I don't know where these people are going to and from. Really about age. Are these his? Probably, they're not mine. I I have nothing in my car. There's no drugs, there's no alcohol. Well, the other officer told me he's taking me to jail, so Did I say that? No, your friend said that. My friend? I I assume you mean the sergeant. The sergeant, your friend, somebody. Is yours or his? Probably his, nothing is unless it's in here that's mine that's sitting right there. Mr. Wright. Yes. you've been an Uber driver? This is my second year. A year and a half, 2 years maybe. Is that is have you been stopped a lot? It's probably why you you've been stopped cuz you're an Uber driver, right? Cuz there's just a lot of history on the vehicle. On this vehicle, is there history? Not that I know of. Well, here's your license. We're going to wait for K9 because I don't know if you might have dumped something under the seat and you don't want us to look. So, we're just going to have K9 come out and smell. And if they do an indication, if not, then you'll be on your way, okay? Okay. I mean, if he threw something under the seat, it still has nothing to do with me. Like Okay, but it's in your car. I'm not saying it has anything to do with you, sir. I I've never said that, did I? No, I would I feel like something's going to be under the car and you're going to say I'm the driver, it's my vehicle, I'm responsible. Negative, sir. I've never said that to you. Okay. Okay? Can Can you understand my frustration? I'm just at work. I sure do. I I absolutely do. I do registration, just hold on a minute, okay? Thanks, man. All right, make sure you get your your license. Um so, I'm maintaining two active addresses. I get paid out to No, I work at the courthouse here. Okay. But I get paychecks sent to Raleigh, so I have to maintain a Raleigh address. room do you work in? You work in 317? 317 or 200. I'm in court I'm in I've been in court in Philly for like around 3 years now, so Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Probably seen me you look familiar to me. You're just dressed different. Usually in a suit. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Okay. Um give Make sure you get that change if you're going to stay in this area, though, okay? The on the license? Have it changed? Yeah, it shows Raleigh. So, I still have all my paychecks sent to Raleigh, so they told me to just keep a Raleigh active address. Does it make a difference? Yeah, I'm keeping two addresses. Okay. Cuz yeah, that that's still an active address that I receive mail at. That'll work. All right. All right. Just give us a minute, okay?