Because I've got calls about you and they said that you're being belligerent and you're asking for money. >> That's not true. >> Okay. Do you have identification on you? >> I do, but I'm not I'm I'm not obligated to give you any identification. >> They want you trespassed from this property and they have the right to do so. So, can I see your identification, please? >> Trespass for what? >> They don't have to have a reason. >> An ID request, a citizen who refused, and within moments, a routine encounter turned into a controversial confrontation over abuse of authority, constitutional rights, and legal consequences that cannot be ignored. >> I go town to town spreading this message of God bless homeless veterans. And please pray for our homeless veterans. Support our homeless veterans. I don't ask for money. So, what crime am I being detained for? >> Trespass after warning. >> Who gave me the warning? >> Sorry? >> Who gave me the warning? >> Postmaster. >> Postmaster gave me the >> Right now, you're detained with further investigation. >> Okay. >> Simply for refusing to show ID when he wasn't suspected of any crime, this man suddenly found himself at the center of a confrontation that could leave the very officers enforcing the law facing consequences. A man stood quietly on a public sidewalk, yet within minutes, he became the focus of multiple calls to the police. What caused a simple [music] request from a patrol officer to escalate into a heated dispute over citizen's rights? >> God bless the homeless veterans. Please pray for our homeless vets. Uh, it's panhandling free speech though. If there isn't an ordinance it's unconstitutional, so they can they can keep rocks. Why would there be a why would they outlaw somebody asking for help? You're not calling the cops, are you? You're not calling the cops, are you? Why? Why would you call the cops on somebody that you perceive to need help? Do you go to church on Sundays? Why would you do that? Why would you do that? All right, look at these people. Look at these people. These are the people over here in this whole town. They're all getting together and calling the cops on me. Not too much. How are you? >> Pretty good. What are you doing? >> Uh I'm just out here doing my thing, man. >> Okay. What What does that mean? >> Uh what what? What's the problem? >> Well, you're asking people for money. You can't panhandle city. It's a city >> Panhandling is free speech. >> It is not. You're asking people for donations. >> How do you know that? >> Because I've got calls about you and they said you're being belligerent and you're asking for money. Is that true? >> Okay. Do you have identification on you? I do, but I'm not I'm I'm not obligated to give you any identification. In the state of Texas, you don't have to provide ID unless you're lawfully arrested. >> being investigated. >> No, unless you're lawfully arrested. >> I think you're sorry, that is not how that works. >> I'm in a Hold on, I'll be good. Officer Sorrells. My name is Jeff. >> Officer Sorrells. >> Slow it down. >> Okay. >> Yes, sir. >> I'm not escalating anything. >> All right. My name is Jeff. >> Okay. >> I'm standing on a public sidewalk >> Okay. >> engaging in freedom of speech, >> What is your freedom of speech? >> freedom of religion, >> Okay. >> freedom of assembly. >> Okay. Not if you're asking people for money. >> I'm not I never said I was asking for money. >> What began as an ID request with no clear legal basis quickly spiraled into a series of controversial accusations. But as the facts [music] slowly came to light, one question became impossible to ignore. Was this law enforcement in action or simply a misunderstanding of citizens' [music] fundamental rights? >> I'm not giving an ID cuz I'm not legally obligated to do so. And I'm engaging in a constitutionally protected I'm sorry, go ahead and read it. >> You are being asked to >> [music] >> I don't answer personal questions like that. >> All you need to know is I'm engaged in free speech. This is a traditional public forum. And I have every right [music] to be here. >> A lot of you are asking for money you don't. >> All of the It was like I got out here and all of these like shop tenants just jumped to conclusions, started yelling at me telling me get out of here, get out of town, you're not allowed to be here, get out. >> Did you ask any of them for money or anything? Did >> I did not ask anybody for money. No. >> You haven't asked a single person. >> I never asked anybody for money. >> So when I go to these shops over here and I ask them if you have asked them for money and they tell me that you have, what >> I I have no idea what they're going to say. >> no idea what they're going to say. >> Yeah, cuz I That's not true. Your officer's right here. >> He's He doesn't want to give me his ID, first name and last name. >> I told him my name is Jeff. >> He said he's not asking people for money. I told him he can't panhandle in the city. >> Panhandling is free speech. >> No, panhandling is not free speech. No, it's not. >> Yes, it is. >> Uh he doesn't want to ID me because he has he And according to him, the only time you have to ID yourself is when you've been law or arrested. Not true. Uh are you Hey, what's up, brother? >> Hey. >> Hey, so did he ask anybody for money? >> No, I was good. >> Okay. All right. Panhandling is [ __ ] illegal. >> Okay. My name is Jeff. I go town to town spreading this message of God bless homeless veterans. Please pray for our homeless vets. Support our homeless vets. I don't ask for money. I solicit good I do solicit, but it's just soliciting good will and prayer for our homeless veterans. Standing on a public sidewalk engaged in freedom of speech, freedom of religion, and freedom of assembly on a traditional public forum. So I don't I'm not going to give any ID. I don't give ID for constitutionally protected activity. I just like to be left alone. The shop owners all jumped to conclusions and made assumptions that I'm asking for money. I don't I don't I never asked for money. >> What's your name, officer? >> Clyde Warner. >> Are you the chief? >> No, I'm sergeant. >> Oh, you look like a chief. I I mean that as a compliment. >> Just as the confrontation seemed to be heading toward a dangerous turning point, >> [music] >> the arrival of another person suddenly changed everything. What happened next made the tense [music] exchanges that came before seem more confusing than ever. >> I'm engaging freedom of speech. >> Well, you're not out sitting there asking for money. It says 30 seconds to ask for money. >> I but I do like to make the point that even if I was asking for money >> Hey Clyde, I'm going to go >> the courts have ruled that it's free speech. >> You got it. >> The courts have ruled that it's free speech. As even asking for money, they can't outlaw somebody asking for help. What kind of country do we live in >> If you're really nice going to hell, I'll be honest with >> Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Anyway, >> I'm not going to bother you. >> All right. >> You be careful. >> God bless you. >> God bless you. >> Thank you. Take care. >> Hey, yeah. You're not asking people for money. You're not panhandling. If somebody does call and say that you're asking for money, though, that's a different story, okay? >> Well, I can't that's that's your side. I'm just saying the rules. >> Yeah. >> Look it up. Panhandling >> I'm aware of what the state law says. >> I know what it is. Panhandling, asking people for money >> It's constitutionally protected activity. Absolutely, you're wrong. >> Absolutely, you're wrong. >> Look it up cuz you're wrong. Before you make a mistake one day and arrest somebody for free speech. Have a good day. Stay safe. Free speech. Constitutionally protected activity. It's free speech. >> What? >> Free speech. It's constitutionally protected activity. >> The incident ended without any arrests or citations, but it also served as a reminder that a civilized society is measured not only by how the law is enforced, but by how citizens' rights are respected, how differences are understood, and how fairly people are treated regardless of their circumstances. Citizens can sue police under Section 1983 when their rights are violated. Officers who violate those rights may face compensation payouts, disciplinary action, or even termination. Next, with nothing more than a camera, this man unintentionally sparked a confrontation that no one saw coming. What was it that caused the situation to become so tense so quickly? >> So, you have to post a seven right here. And I do have the law in my pocket. So, this is the law right here. It says stop recording. >> Yeah, she get that money though. >> Sir. Sir. >> You didn't ask me to stop recording. What article are you talking about out there? >> It says authorized by the local postmaster. >> That is the local postmaster. >> It doesn't say authorized by the local postmaster. Yeah, cuz I got the law right here. And it's the bottom in the middle. >> photographs >> Other photographs may be taken only with the permission of the local postmaster or installation head. >> Other Other photo >> For news purposes. Where are your news credentials? >> I don't have to show you my news credentials. >> By By what law? >> If you're going to go by that, you need to show us >> By what law? >> news credentials. >> Do you have the law? >> Cuz that's what it says. >> Is that the law? >> Or all the right, that is the United States Postal Service policy. >> It says, "Except as prohibited." "Except as pro Where does it say no cameras?" Oh, it says >> 24-hour video surveillance. It doesn't say no cameras. >> Enjoy your day. >> Thanks for your service. >> Photographs for news purposes. >> Yep, and I'm a journalist. >> Where is your credentials? >> I don't have to have credentials. >> journalist. >> I don't have to show you anything. >> yes, you do. >> Okay, you can you can keep that. >> Other >> So, if you're not going to show me news credentials, you're You fall under the other category. >> Okay. >> Well, I'll let the cops explain it to you. >> Now, let the cops escort you out of here or tell you to turn your camera off. >> The dispute was far from settled when law enforcement arrived on the scene. But instead of clarifying who was right and who was wrong, their very first move only made the situation more tense than ever. >> Don't tell me you don't have my permission to film me. >> I don't need your permission. >> Okay. If you're going to post it anywhere, you have to have my permission. >> Oh, yeah? >> Yes. >> That's interesting. >> How long have you studied the law? >> Never. Sounds about right. Have I committed a crime? >> They want you trespassing on this property and they have the right to do so. So, can I see your identification, please? >> Trespass for what? >> They don't have to have a reason. >> I don't have to >> property and if they don't want you on the property, then you're not to be on the property. They can have you trespassed. So, can I please see some identification? >> I I don't have any ID on me. Are you telling me that this isn't a federally owned building? This isn't the post office? >> Of course it is. >> Okay. So, didn't the Department of Homeland Security put out a 2010 memo saying that anybody news and commercial purposes is allowed to record federal buildings? I got it in my pocket. >> You can I'm sure you can. Once they decide they don't want you on their property, that's their >> After failing to compel the man to produce identification, the confrontation unexpectedly shifted to an even more sensitive issue. And just when the officers believed they had found the legal grounds to bring the matter to an end, the man presented something that made everyone stop and reconsider. >> So, their prerogative trumps law? >> There's no law that says you can be here. It says you're allowed to film. >> I have it in my pocket. >> It doesn't say that you're guaranteed to stay on this property. >> It says I'm allowed to film. >> Yeah, the court of appeals also says that anybody has their own right to trespass on this property. >> If it's private, then this is public. This is owned by the taxpayers. It's a It's the federal, right? >> The manager here feels that they don't need to have anybody watching here. And if they're private, they can request for us to leave. >> So, you can trespass people off public property? >> I can trespass you from any building, store, even private homes. >> Right. Well, of course, because those are all examples of private property. This is something that the taxpayers pay money for. >> Let's Let me do this. Let's start over because right away you want to be argumentative, and that's not what I want >> I I don't want to be argumentative, but but I want to follow the law. So, I like to do that. If you don't mind, I'll reach in my pocket, I'll grab you the law. There you go. There's the law. Underneath of it is the stop and frisk law for Florida. >> This has nothing to do with stop and frisk. >> You have to You have to have a probable cause. >> you or frisking you on this property, right? >> In the state of Florida, you don't need to show ID unless you're suspected of committing, have committed, or about to commit a crime. Says so right on the law. >> Oh, yeah. >> Of course. I guess It's It's fine. I don't mind anyone asking. >> I I already know that already. >> And also, I gave him another piece of paper. He hasn't returned it back, but it's uh it's 39 CFR 232.1, property on uh or conduct on postal property. So, you guys can look that over, too. I'm perfectly legal to be here. >> Okay. Can I ask you something, sir? >> Sure. >> Why are you here? What's What is all the deal about? Did the post office do you wrong or something? >> No. >> Are you just doing it just to do it? >> Uh you ever seen Undercover Boss? >> So, do you work for the federal post office? >> No, the federal post office works for us. >> After a series of tense legal exchanges, the man suddenly shifted the discussion to an even more controversial issue. In his view, when no one speaks up, things that seem unreasonable today can gradually become accepted as normal tomorrow. >> We pay taxes, right? >> Yeah, but it still doesn't quite work like that. >> Now, who do they work for? Am I Am I Am I Am I mistaken? Do they work for somebody else I don't know? >> Are they not doing their job job by delivering mail? >> No, that's not that's not the point. The point is is that It's a first amendment right to videotape in public. >> Yeah. >> These folks don't know their rights. So, gentleman's outside on the sidewalk, he says, "Don't record. I haven't give you permission to record." Like they've never heard of the fact that there's no privacy in public. I mean, where where did these guys go to school at? You guys know the plain view doctrine, right? >> Yeah. >> Anything I can see from public where I'm allowed to be, I can videotape it. I can record it, right? >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, yeah, we just need to let these people know that the rule is the law and the law works for them and for me, you know? I I I I have no ill will towards any of them. I do city halls. I was at Ocala City Hall a couple days ago. I'll be coming by Leesburg City Hall. But, you know, when when public officials have no one that watches over them, they they kind of run amok. Case in point, Ocala Chief of Police just spent 54,000 taxpayer dollars on his personal defense against a discrimination lawsuit of his officers. You know? That's the kind of stuff that goes on when people don't pay attention and don't watch. Then we wonder why we're 20 trillion dollars in debt while Chiefs of Police are running around paying for personal lawyers for, you know, sassing their female workers. >> I don't know. I'm not going to take sides or anything, but that's just That's $54,000 that could have been going to other >> Oh, well, right. Oh, yeah. I mean, if you times it times the, you know, 500 chiefs of police across the country, $50,000 adds up. >> When the officers returned after speaking with the post office staff, the atmosphere changed instantly. The balance of power seemed to shift in one direction, but the real question remained. Is a single accusation enough to strip a citizen of their freedom? >> Excuse sergeant, is that the supervisor? >> Yes. >> Could you ask him to get my paper back from the gentleman in the blue shirt right there? Yeah, I gave him a piece of paper with the law on it. He hasn't returned it back. I did ask for it back, he ignored me. >> Okay, well we'll get to that in a minute. >> And what's your name and badge number, sir? >> Officer Osterberg, TAC 30. >> [music] >> Can you spell that? I don't want to get >> O S T E R B E R G. >> 230? >> What's that? >> Badge number 230? >> TAC 30. >> TAC 30. Yeah, they asked me to stop recording, but they didn't ask me to leave. I mean, it's it's impossible to ask someone to leave from a a public place like this where you do business at federal government. Like I said, they've got the law, I gave it to them. It's right outside on their poster, too. For news and commercial purposes on on post office property, uh auditoriums, corridors, foyers, all of it's legal. Whether they like it or not. Pretty hot out here today, though. >> I'm sorry, I'll get the supervisor. No, he's not coming. Okay, got >> Uh what crime am I being detained for? >> Trespass after warning. >> Who gave me the warning? >> Sorry? >> Who gave me the warning? >> Postmaster. >> Postmaster gave me the >> So right now you're detained with further investigation. >> Okay. Postmaster's allowed to make a legal determination on trespassing? I thought the law for trespassing might to say I to give you the opportunity to leave, and if you don't leave then you get a warning. >> want me to tell you or not? >> Yeah, yeah, I was just saying. >> is a civil thing in Florida, okay? So, we as peace officers, if somebody requests it, we can go ahead. Obviously, we can't make you stick around and sign a piece of paper, things like that. We can just say, "Hey man, you got you got to get off the property." >> Okay. >> If you don't leave, you could be arrested. >> After all the arguments and threats of arrest, the outcome unfolded in a way few people expected. Because what had just taken place was now opening the door to a legal battle that no one seemed eager to face. >> Okay. That's up in front of how I would have I would prefer us to trespass you and have you leave and go home. Sure. But if you're not going to abide by postmaster what what what she wants done, >> Well, no, I I abide by the law. I don't abide by what one person who thinks they're the law says. >> If you have an issue with the postmaster, then you need to take it with postmaster and federal government. >> Okay. >> Okay? They have asked you to leave, you have refused. >> No, they didn't. >> We're going to try and trespass. >> They didn't ask me to leave. >> Okay. >> Where How do you know they asked me to leave? >> They told me. They told They told me to. >> So, hearsay? Is that what we're sticking with? We're sticking with hearsay, right? >> We're getting a written statement. >> Okay. Well, I have a video statement. >> Okay. >> They asked me to stop filming, but they never asked me to leave. Okay? Just want to make sure that Leesburg isn't in for a a real big lawsuit here. >> What about a lawsuit? >> Well, I know you The taxpayers pay for it, you don't. Why would you care? >> In the end, the man left with a trespass order, but the debate over individual freedom and the limits of government authority was far from over. Hey everyone, what do you think about this situation? If you enjoyed the video, don't forget to like, subscribe, and support us with a donation. Thank you so much. >> [music]