This, this, this is a private property. This is a prison. >> So, this is a private prison? The prison is private? >> Go take it up with the state, then. >> Sir, you >> Go take it up WITH THE STATE. >> A LAW-SAVVY CITIZEN, a group of officials accused of overstepping their authority, and a confrontation raising one major question: What happens when those who enforce the law become the ones under scrutiny? >> You cannot be recording on state grounds. >> And why is that? >> Cuz you cannot. You want to be You want to do your business, you go across the street. You are on state property. >> Right. >> When a law-savvy citizen confronts those entrusted to enforce the law, who is truly following the law, and what legal consequences follow when authority is pushed beyond its limits? Simply by raising a camera while standing in a public area outside a detention facility, this man was immediately met with tense warnings from security personnel. As they repeatedly demanded that he leave, Manny began asking the same question: What was provoking such an aggressive reaction? >> I'm at the Racine Correctional Institution out in Sturtevant, Wisconsin. I'm just getting ready to see if they respect our rights to record in public, and to make sure our rights are not infringed on by anyone at any time. I know he said something about pictures, I don't know. Obviously, it's probably something about you can't take them, but cuz couldn't hear him. And sorry, TTA family, for this wind problem, too, cuz it's definitely windy out here. Hey, what you say, sir? Right now. Yeah, I know it's a prison, but I'm I'm just standing on the sidewalk. Not I'm just standing on the sidewalk. >> [music] >> No, I'm just I'm just out here exercising rights today, sir. That's it. That's it. Yeah, so you should should be familiar then. I mean this is I got a fish Okay, well then you shouldn't have came out and explained then. I well well well I don't neither. I mean you can call you can call them. They're going to tell you the same thing. I'm on public property. It's public property, sir. Well, it's public property. Not doing it's not illegal to do it. >> Just as the confrontation seemed ready to cool down, a sergeant suddenly stepped in and immediately pushed the situation in a completely different direction. And then, instead of clearly explaining the authority he was relying on, he pulled out a familiar card, one that instantly changed the tone of the encounter. >> Yeah, everybody is. What's up, sir? >> I'm Captain Jones. Who are you? >> I appreciate that. My name is James. >> What can I do for you today? Well, you can't be recording this on state ground. >> However, this is public This is state ground. >> Yeah, I know. I'm standing on the public side, though. >> No, this is not public. This is DOC state owned. >> That's correct. Who owns the state, sir? >> Huh? >> Who owns the state? >> The public. >> That's correct, sir. >> Okay. Okay. But however, >> Mhm. >> this this this is a private property. This is a prison. >> So, this is a private prison? The prison is private? Cuz you just said it's state owned. >> of the of the state. This is private property owned of the of the state. So, you can go Listen, you can go out to this road here >> Uh-huh. >> and you can record anything you want out there, but you can't do it here. Otherwise, we have to call the police. >> Okay, so and I got official business here as well. So, I got to go in here and follow a FOIA FOIA request. >> I don't care what you file, sir. You can you can So, I'm going to do it. You can you can contact our office of legal counsel. >> No, I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it inside cuz I can I have a a right to do it inside. I can file in person. That's >> you What are you What are you What are you talking about filing what? >> I'm freedom of Okay, I'm trying to explain it to you. The Freedom of Information Act, >> [music] >> I have a right to file a Freedom of Information. That's what I'm saying. Okay. >> You can record outside on this public on the public road here. >> Okay. >> This is public owned, but however, it's a prison and and we >> I know it's a prison and I I can understand where y'all coming from with that, but by it being public, that's what grants I just told you my name, sir. I just said James. I'm not going to give you my last name. I'll be No, no, no. I don't think that's unnecessary. >> So, we'll we'll we'll we'll contact law enforcement. >> I mean >> If you If you refusing to leave, I'm going to contact law enforcement and then you can wait and then you can deal with >> Okay, just to just [clears throat] to make it for the record, I never refused to leave. I just have official business first, then I'll leave. >> Official business with who? >> With the officer. Filing a FOIA request, sir. I just This is my third time telling you. >> Yeah, but you don't have no business here. >> That's I'm telling you now again. I have to file a FOIA request, sir. That's correct. Yeah, I know you don't have to process it here, but I can file it here and then you guys are appropriate. There you go. So, he's familiar. He he Well, I have a right I have a right to basically document my business here. >> What seemed like nothing more than a threat meant to apply pressure quickly took on a life of its own. Just minutes later, three police officers arrived on scene and the debate instantly escalated to a whole new level. >> How you doing, officer? I'm just trying to come out here today to file a Freedom of Information Act. I was trying to convey to this captain here that state of Wisconsin do allow citizens to file a FOIA. He didn't understand what that was. So, another another guard here that works here actually did understand. >> [music] >> It's a sunshine They have sunshine laws in the state of Wisconsin, 1.2, where I can file Freedom of Information Act and expect them copy records of the state. So, that's what I'm trying to do, but He's not allowing me to do it. >> [snorts] >> You don't do that here. >> Yeah, I can do it here. I can do it here and then they would have to afford it to the appropriate person. Even the other officer agreed with that. So, I can do it here. How you doing, sergeant? What's your name and badge number, sir? >> I'm just helping out. I'm not >> Oh, okay. Appreciate that. Just wanted to wanted to Yeah. Like I was conveying to this officer here, I'm just trying to follow a FOIA request form today and Uh >> You're not allowed to trespass. >> I'm not trespassing, sir. I'm public property. >> I think what they're going to have issues with is the fact that this is a detention facility. It's our jail. >> I can understand that. >> your video. >> And and I understand that and what I told them I actually understand that, but I have a right to document my official business with this agency. As well. By by law, sir. We're just exercising constitutional rights here. Don't want them or you guys to infringe on those today. Hopefully, we can do that and be successful. Well, this young man right here impeded that. He impeded my movement. He was very kind of aggressive at the door there and wouldn't allow me to. So, I asked him for a warden and he didn't he was uninterested. Um not really. He just kept saying the stuff that he kept trying to say in terms of recording and stuff like that and I tried to convey to him I was trying to. I was trying to. But yes, you can, sir. Yes, you can. By law, you can, sir. You absolutely can. It's a I understand rules, but we're talking about law, sir. Talk about laws, not rules. You guys are law enforcement, not rule enforcement. It's public property, sir. I'm standing on a public right-of-way. >> Many expected the police to put an end to the dispute, but the opposite happened. The more the officers engaged with the man who clearly understood the law, the more their attitude began to shift, pushing the tension to an entirely new level. >> And I even told him by him being a captain I can do it here, sir. Laws is laws for you guys are staying. For the state of Wisconsin. Right? >> Go take it up with the state then. >> Sir, you >> Go take it up with the state. >> You De-escalate, sir. You don't have to You don't have to try to get rowdy. So, you're so I am listening. I But But do I supposed to agree? Are you saying just I have to agree with everything you say, sir? >> Okay, if if if you don't, then go through the state. >> I This is the state. This is a state agency. You want me to show you the law, sir? I can show you. >> here, but they don't do the business here. >> They have to. I can file it here, sir. Then they will forward it to their foyer officer. That's That's how it goes, sir. I don't have to go all over the state to try to file a foyer when I'm trying to file it with this agency, sir. I I told I told this young man to go get his warden and he was uninterested. >> So, he's going to go get the information that you need and be able to give it to you so you can file what you need to file. >> I mean, I'll take a look at it, but like I was just telling this officer, we can I can file it at this agency, sir. >> But apparently, you can't. >> I mean, if you don't want to accept it, that's one thing. >> But they He's saying it's not happening here. It doesn't happen here for what you're looking to do. I guess it has to happen somewhere else. >> He made it sound like He made it sound like they're not the ones here that look into that. >> Which there is a kind of conflict of interest, right? Like you don't want them to look into that. >> I can understand that, but you know what was another officer standing right by that captain, and he agreed with me like, "Yeah, you can file here." So, I mean, no, the captain might not know. You know what I'm saying? >> might not know because a captain's captain in here is going to know a little bit better about those processes as as just a dumb cop, I have no idea. >> I mean, not necessarily, though. I'm just you know. But my my whole thing, to be perfectly honest with you, officers, man, I was like I said, I was standing on the publicly accessible areas here, the [music] sidewalk there, the sidewalk here, recording, not doing anything nefarious. >> But he can't because because it's a detention facility. >> Correct. That's right. >> It's It's like escape issues. So, I mean, you're you're doing something you're you're planning a you know, you're you're planning it's escape for for Joe Blow in there. >> Absolutely not. >> [laughter] >> That's what we got to go over there coming from. >> I can understand. But, let me ask you, what's your name, officer? McCoy? And your badge number, sir? Appreciate that. Uh even if they do feel like that, their feelings don't trump our constitutional rights. >> but you don't have a right to do that. >> I do. I'm I'm I'm exercising my first amendment right now, sir. I can Is Is Is this publicly accessible? >> It's publicly accessible. It's private property. >> When shaky legal arguments failed to make the man back down, the officers seemed to run out of patience as well. Just minutes later, every debate came to an abrupt end with one clear message. He had to leave. And this time, it came in the form of an official notice. >> Like I said, it was another officer, correction officer, that was standing right here that was just telling them that I can do it. Yeah, I mean, I mean, let me tell you something right now, sir. If this guy got this FOIA request form, it's going to be amazing. I'm going to fill it out, give it back to him, and book on out. It's simple. And I mean, I I will look into that, you know. I'll look into that. Although this facility on grounds are owned Uh you don't want me to see it? >> state of Wisconsin, neither Racine Correctional Institution nor its grounds, including the parking lot, are open to the public for general use. I would ask that you please leave the parking lot and move at least to the public right-of-way along Wisconsin Street here. Uh I absolutely agree that you have a first amendment right to write or publish podcast or any subject expressing any viewpoint, but whatever filming you conduct at this point in time needs to be done from off the institution grounds for security reasons. I take everyone's safety seriously, including yours, and our policy exists to ensure everyone's safety and security. >> Okay, so what what is that, exactly, sir? Is that Is that a memo? >> That's >> you that you can't record like two girls. You can't record over here. You need to go out there. >> What I'm asking is the paper that you just read to me. Is it a memo or is it a law? >> So, I can show you it's actually a law. It's a >> Okay, well then that's what I would need to know. What's the law? >> This This is non-trespassing. Correct. So, I can show you all this, but he can do that on his own on his own time. >> It's on the sign, right? So, that's where we at. >> So, so I'm not able So, I'm not able to follow for you today, obviously. Now Now, basically if you He threatened me with a red dot. If I don't leave, you you want to arrest me. Just say that for me. I'm out of here. Okay. Okay, then I'll leave. I leave under threat of arrest from from Sergeant Swart, this officer here, and obviously Officer McCoy from the Department of Corrections. Like I said, I parked this way, so I got to go get my car. >> The incident may have come to an end, but the questions surrounding the use of authority remain. Because when power is exercised beyond the limits of the law, it becomes a moment for officers to confront the consequences of their own actions. Next, no disturbance, no crossing barriers, yet just minutes after the camera was turned on, multiple uniformed officials appeared with the same objective, to make him stop filming and leave the area. >> I'm sorry. >> Do you need something? >> No, no, I don't need anything. Do you Do you work for like the in this part for the visitor section? >> Not acceptable. You need You need You need a law. >> I was just taking a look around the the public accessible areas here. That's it. >> So, you're recording right now? >> Yeah, I'm recording right now, yeah. >> You're not supposed to do this. >> Why? Why is that? >> You're not supposed to record over here, but what do you need exactly? >> Oh, nothing, but I'm just looking taking a look around the public accessible areas. >> signs over there. >> Okay. >> to talk to somebody about it. I want to see why you're recording over here. >> No, because I have a statutory right to record here. >> What's your name? >> Oh, I didn't give it. What was your name, though? >> So, you would need to speak with a officer. >> All right. You see, that's why I don't give my name, cuz you don't want to give me your name. >> [laughter] >> It's not very professional. Hey, how are you? >> I'm good. How are you? >> I'm doing well. Um can I help you? >> Yeah, respectfully, like do you mind if you can This is a state facility. >> Are you a state official or you a National Guard? >> I'm a National >> National Guard? >> Yes. >> You guys are still in the state facilities, the correctional facilities? I remember when they were on strike. You know, we the governor put a bunch of National Guard here. You guys are still here? >> Yes. So, do you mind she can't go on site. >> Well, >> I understand. If If you have any questions, you can speak to the National Guard headquarters. And if you want to speak to any officials, you can call them or go online. But, as per the rules and regulations, you must be escorted. And if any disturbance, we don't have any information. >> Right. Well, there there If you look at the signage outside, it says unless it's in an accord with the New York State Right to Monitor Act. Are you familiar with that law? >> So, sir, we are here for we follow the rules. >> Right. >> orders. >> You follow the rules, right? >> Yes, exactly. >> Yeah. >> So, >> Well, I follow the law. You know, there's a hierarchy in There's rules, then above that is laws, then you have a supreme law, which is the Constitution, which you swore an oath to uphold, right? >> Sir, yes, we >> You You swore an oath to uphold the Constitution, correct? Yeah, see? And the New York State Constitution. >> All right. At this point, what do you want us to do? >> I I want you to honor your oath that you took to the Constitution. Again, I I'm engaging in a statutory right and a constitutional right. So, >> The argument was far from over when a female sergeant suddenly arrived with an aggressive attitude, immediately demanding that the man leave. But, what really caught people's attention were the accusations she began making just moments later. >> Uh he can't just >> All right. Oh, I we came to an understanding. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, so like uh This is the restricted area as well. >> You see the cameras everywhere. >> Yeah. Yeah, I see cameras, yeah. >> area as well. This is only authorized personnel, the workers, and the maintenance workers. >> Yeah, no, it doesn't That That >> We see this who comes in here. >> Right. >> They're specifically they're authorized to go in. >> To go in over there, right? >> Yeah, to go in here and to go in there. >> Cuz this is not like a restricted area because how would I get How would I get here if it was restricted? >> Here's the thing. As soon as you come in the parking lot, this is a restricted area. I don't know when you came in here. >> Right. >> This is authorized parking only. >> It does It doesn't say authorized parking only. >> coming into this facility >> It doesn't say that. >> Make Make sure you have a permission or authorized >> To visit >> to enter the facility. >> Right. >> And if you're a visitor, make sure you have a permission to enter the building. >> Right. Yeah. So, I would just ask to speak to a supervisor or you can call actual law enforcement officers and they can explain to you the statute that I'm You can do that. >> I I I respect the law. >> I also Yeah. >> And I respect you. >> Right. So, just that And I've been very professional with you. I think you've been professional with me, but again, I don't think I don't think you're understanding the law. >> I'm understanding, but you have to understand this is a correction facility. Yeah. Uh there is a supervisor if you want to talk to him. >> Hey. Hey, how are you? >> Good. Who are you? >> Uh my name is Shawn. Who are you? >> Shawn, I'm Sergeant Torres. >> Sergeant Torres? >> Okay, you cannot be recording on state grounds. >> Uh Why is that? >> Cuz you cannot. You want to be You want to do your business you of course do. You want to stay property. >> Right, but I'm I'm exercising my right under this New York State Right to Monitor Act. >> things. You know, I see this on video all the time. >> you should learn. Well, then you should learn. Then you should learn. Uh because it's my right under the New York State Right to Monitor Act. >> to work peacefully. And I'm bothering you? Yes, you got >> How am I bothering you? >> because I'm kind of calm down here and talking. >> Well, I'm sorry it took you away from watching TV. I'm sorry I took you away from watching your TV. >> I wasn't >> TV, but you didn't >> I bet a lot of correctional facilities you guys watch TV a lot. >> our job. No, it is not. I've seen I can show you the video. You guys watch TV. I I can I can be I can be right here. I can be right here. Yes, I can. I am not. I'm Are you Are you familiar with the New York State Right to Monitor Act? Are you familiar with that law? It's in 79 P New York State Right to Monitor Act. Are you familiar with it? But I have a right to record law enforcement and security. Right, but I have a right to do it here. I have a right to do it here. Call law enforcement. Call law enforcement. >> The debate was far from over. But then, one detail displayed on a sign right behind them suddenly turned the entire situation upside down. >> You see right here? How it says no taking photographs, right? And but at the end it says or in accordance with the New Yorkers Right to Monitor Act. Do you see that? Isn't that what I told you? >> That is only under if you are authorized to come in this building. >> That's why at the very beginning I said, see, I don't have to argue with you. Right. I'm not arguing. >> You have a lot to say. I have a lot to say, too, but this states >> Right. >> authorized to this ground with the permission of any superintendent or any higher authority. >> Look, look, look. The taking of photographs or videos of on facility property is prohibited except with the specific prior approval of the superintendent or or or in accordance with the New Yorkers Right to Monitor Act. Do you know what Do you Do you I I I don't understand. Like, am I reading a different language? I'm not arguing. I'm just reading. It's not Not everything is an argument. It's it's Just Wait. What do you think this means? Explain to me what this means then. >> You are authorized to come in this building with the permission any superintendent authorizes you to >> That's the first part of it. I agree. Look, I agree. That's the first part. That's the No. Or or or You know what or means, right, Sergeant? Okay. Or in accordance with the New Yorkers right to monitor act. >> Listen. Are you really going to argue >> I'm not arguing. I'm trying to explain. It's a difference, sir. >> This is fun. Uh see >> If I said If I said Wait. Wait. Hold on. Let's see here. If I said you can go over here or over here, that's one or the other, right? You can do one or the other. >> The arrival of state police seemed like it would finally end the dispute, but things quickly became more complicated when they realized the man standing before them knew the law far better than expected. And the longer the conversation continued, the more difficult the questions became. >> From the Bronx or something? >> No. From Long Island. >> Oh, really? >> Yeah. I don't >> Kind of a drive from Long Island to here, though. >> It's my job. I've been everywhere from Hawaii, California, Washington State, Texas. I've been up to almost all the 50 states already. Yeah. >> I'm jealous. That's good. You never say the same thing. >> This is actually pretty close. This is actually pretty close in in terms of where I where I go. >> hour and a half >> I usually go over the ferry to Connecticut and then come this way. >> I mean, I guess it's called like I'm the middleman. I'm going to call myself or like the messenger. >> Yeah. >> If not. >> Mhm. >> Their concern, all right, is that because this is a maximum security facility, that they don't want cell phone being like the facility being recorded because of their procedures and whatnot. And they just don't want that to be publicly seen. You know what I mean? >> Okay. >> It's like a safety So, for example, like and let me just bear with me. For example, like for us, like the State Police, like there's certain things that we do that that, you know, makes it safer for us to do our job. All right? And obviously, we wouldn't want the whole public to know every specific little thing. Why? Because then, you know, there's bad people out out there, right? Who can take notes on it and be like, "Oh, look, you do this, so we'll do this to counter it." That's like their biggest concern. All right? They're just asking you to courtesy. You don't even have to like leave, to be honest with you, cuz it's like you said, it is correct. This this portion is pub- publicly accessible, all >> All right. >> right? But they just don't want to be like recording what they're doing. >> Right. Well, I'm I mean, there's nothing that I can't There's nothing I that I can't get from Google Earth, like that argument, I think, is just so disingenuous and doesn't really make any sense. >> yes, so the Go- the Google Earth portion of it, like yeah, like right, like you can see it. >> Yeah, you'll you'll be able to see all of this >> Exactly. But it's just like >> You can see more, cuz you can see from the top down. >> After a series of legal arguments, the female sergeant finally issued a firm warning, bringing the encounter to a decisive moment. But the question remained, was this law being enforced, or was a citizen's lawful right being challenged? >> All right. So, you already I already asked you to leave. You already state police is involved. So, I'm just going to let you know the following, okay? Uh videotaping and photography of DOT facility property without the consent of the superintendent or commissioner is prohibited by DOT policy for members of the public who are visiting incarcerated areas operating to enter this lot and park their vehicles. This property is owned by the Department >> We've heard this so many times, haven't we? >> It is considered part of works of facility and under the authority and direction of the commissioner. >> Get over it. I I You don't have to read the whole thing. Yeah. Here's Promulgate. Promulgate, right? That's That's the word. It's going to be promulgate. There you go. I told you I I know this already. It's fine. We can skip to where you you tell me to leave. He tells me he's going to arrest me if I don't leave and then I'll leave and then and then we go to court. That's That's simple. It's It's literally that simple. We don't have to read all that. It's not required. You just got to tell me Okay, go ahead. You go ahead. Go ahead. Promulgate. There you go. Activity. Okay. Right. All right. So, now it's his part. Now, do your part. Tell me if I trespass and if I don't leave you arrest me. So, if I don't if I don't leave the property, you will arrest me? Interesting. Okay. See you guys in court. Yeah, you too. See you in court. I'll see you in court. There were no handcuffs, no arrests. But after what happened today, the New York State officers now find themselves facing consequences they never expected. Citizens can sue police under Section 1983 when their rights are violated. Officers who violate those rights may face compensation payouts, [music] disciplinary action, or even termination. When authority lacks accountability and citizens' rights are denied the respect they deserve, the greatest damage is not only to the law itself, but to society's trust in justice. [music] Hey everyone, what do you think about this situation? If you enjoyed the video, don't forget to like, subscribe, [music] and support us with a donation. Thank you so much. >> [music]