You said something about HIPAA. >> Well, there is I mean there's if there's patients in here it would be like a maybe a HIPAA violation. >> Well, I can't violate HIPAA cuz I don't work for this entity. >> Okay. >> A single ID demand with no clear legal basis turned public filming into a tense confrontation, one where police authority came under question and legal consequences could come crashing down at any moment. >> You cannot be trespassing in my my yard. >> You can't do that. Don't even try that. >> you're refusing to identify yourself? >> I'm not I don't have to identify cuz this is you don't have a suspicion of crime. What suspicion of the article of a crime have I committed? >> are video taping critical infrastructure. >> When the demand for ID came without any clear accusation of a crime, the confrontation immediately turned into a debate over whether the limits of police power were being crossed. What started as a routine citizen's rights audit seemed completely normal at first. No objections, no tension, and no sign of trouble. But that calm would soon become the beginning of a situation that quickly changed the attitude of the entire building. >> Well, so they have the WIC office and they have the department. Same building. How you doing, man? No. No, everyone's asking me. Not not not right now, probably probably shortly though. Yeah. >> Oh, you are? Okay. >> Yeah. You like supervisor here? >> No, we're WIC. >> WIC? >> Women, Infants, and Children. >> Yeah, yeah, I'm sure. I I just thought you was like your role was like supervisor or something. >> Oh, no. >> Okay. >> We're in the back. >> Okay. Okay, cool. Okay. I'll let you guys know though. >> Okay. >> Okay. Sorry. >> What are you doing? >> What do you mean? >> Why are you videoing in here? >> I So I really didn't really want to get into any of those questions and answers at this time. >> I mean, really kind of breaking HIPAA if you would happen to get anybody that's actually [music] in here. >> Breaking HIPAA? >> Yeah, HIPAA violations. >> Huh? Yeah, yeah. You like a super- you're the supervisor, right? >> I'm in a different area, but >> Okay. Cuz she said something about HIPAA. I >> Yeah, if he was to get some a patient on there, that's not right. >> Well, absolutely, but um I'm not too sure about if people uh audit and uh go public uh building government building and they record uh public accessible areas. And as far from my understanding, public accessible. So >> That's correct, sir. >> If you went back to the door and you print from I'm not 100% sure. You can probably check with someone else, but >> HR or someone. >> Yeah, I've seen these uh videos. They um A lot of people do them places they've been to or whatever. >> Not everyone you know has not been told anything about what's going on. >> Yeah, absolutely. I can grab you a directory or um >> No, I'm not going to get you a directory. I'm just going to >> says she's going to go get HR. I'm not really entirely sure. But she says she's going to go get HR, but that young man obviously knows about the rights we have. He He tried to break it down to her in its entirety. He told her, "Yeah, it's publicly accessible areas." >> At first, everything seemed to be within legal limits, but one simple question suddenly changed the entire atmosphere. >> [music] >> And when the female employee stepped out, the line between the right to record and the claim of privacy quickly became the center of the dispute. >> I'm not entirely sure, man. Anyway, may I stay tuned? I'm sure this is the lady we're waiting on. Are you HR? >> Yes, I am. >> Okay. Yeah, this young lady was saying something about HIPAA or something like that. >> Uh yeah, not everybody like wants to be filmed. >> Okay. >> So I mean, you probably would need to make permission to be like putting them on like the internet. >> Oh, so who said I was on the internet right now? >> Well, I don't know what you I don't know though. >> Well, I know right now I'm not on the internet and that's not what she said. She said something about HIPAA. >> Well, there is I mean, there's if there's patients in here, it would be like a maybe a HIPAA violation. >> Okay. >> Yeah, for patients. [clears throat] >> Well, I I can't violate HIPAA cuz I don't work for this entity. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> What's your name, ma'am? >> I don't need to give my name. >> You don't want to be unprofessional, huh? >> [sighs and panting] >> It's terrible, man. They're talking about HIPAA violations. HIPAA has absolutely nothing to do with what I'm doing. It doesn't apply here. Ah, man, one of the young men that seem like he's the only one that's knowledgeable of what we're doing. The entire staff here is misinformed, but it is what it is, man. We're go file a 740 a, man, real quick. We'll get her name like that. She don't want to give it, but we're definitely going to get it, so. >> Just as the conversation with police seemed to be settling down, one unexpected demand instantly brought the tension back. From that moment on, this was no longer just about filming in public. It went straight to the limits of law enforcement power. >> Do my job and it's >> good. >> so okay. I don't know what's going on, so >> It's all good, man. They I'm not sure who that lady is that just came out and spoke to the the big guy that was You seen all the people sitting here? >> Yeah, I did. I was on the phone, but yes, I did. >> And um he had seen me. He had Basically, he seen me coming through. Everyone seen me recording. And it seems like he's the only one that has knowledge of what I'm actually doing. >> I don't. But do want to ask. >> Yeah, just for just just exercising rights to record in public accessible areas. Not making any effort to go past anything restricted. Standing in the lobby. Uh the young man knew what we was doing. He tried to tell her what we were doing. And she still ran and got HR. So, I'm not entirely sure. But it's >> Yeah, definitely so. Oh my living God. >> Hi. >> How you doing, Deputy? >> Good. How are you? >> Pretty good. >> How are you? >> I I I'm I didn't call you, Deputy. >> No, but they did. >> Really? >> Yeah. >> What did they actually say on 911? >> So, they said that you were recording. You were causing a scene. >> Oh, really? >> So, did they ask you to leave? >> No one asked Yeah, no one asked me to leave at all. >> Okay. >> How you doing, Deputy? >> What is the call for today, Paul? >> So, do you need >> If you want to speak to her, she Oh my God, did they press the panic button? Really? I'm pretty Oh my living God. >> Do you need him to leave? >> Would it be an issue for you? >> leave? >> Are you going to leave? >> No, I mean I I got business to conduct. And once I'm done conducting the business, I will be leaving. >> What kind of business do you have here? >> Uh a couple of different things. But the main thing is a FOIA for sure. And I'm exercising my right to record in public. So, >> So, if they ask you not to do that, >> No, they didn't really ask. They were just saying something about HIPAA and stuff like that. And Uh we tried to tell them that HIPAA doesn't apply because I don't work for the entity. >> No clear accusation. No crime was ever pointed out. Yet the demand for ID was immediately put on the table. And in that moment, the conversation with police became a real test of the limits of power. >> Do you have an ID on you? >> No, I don't carry ID. >> Okay. Can I speak to whoever wanted you to leave? If you're not the one that >> Yeah, that's that's crazy cuz no one even asked me to leave. >> Nobody said anything to you, huh? >> They did I mean they did speak about the recording. They were saying stuff like HIPAA. >> Well, you can record in here. You can't record in the rooms. >> Yeah, that's the private stuff. That's what I was telling them. Yeah, even that guy right there behind the door said the same thing. That works here, so. >> Well, are you >> Can I have your name? >> I don't want to really give my name, but I you know, I just rather remain anonymous, Deputy. >> Well, because we're here now and it's a part of our call, >> Mhm. >> I I would like your information. >> I understand. >> What's your last name? >> I don't want to give it though. I just want to remain anonymous. That's my fourth amendment right. I don't minus a crime, you know, there's no obligation for me to give up my name. That's it. Appreciate it. Like I said, if you Deputy, what are you from National Name, sir? >> Ross. >> Ross. Do you have a Do you have a ID number? >> 6134. >> Appreciate it. You, Deputy? >> Kingsbury 7082. >> Thanks a lot. You, sir? >> Freeburg 7010. >> Appreciate that. >> All right, thank you. >> Yes, I'm not entirely sure, man. Like I said, this is kind of wild. They pressed the panic button, man. Oh my living God. >> So, how long did the whole action actually go down there? >> Uh like I said, [clears throat] I've been here for several more Probably about 30 minutes. Walking around, document, everything's good to go. Uh this young lady in this room actually had the actual problem with me recording. But the man that works here that's behind this door tried to explain it to her right here like no, he has a right to do what he's doing and all that, you know, leave him be and she still ran and got HR. >> So, why in this room why did she have a problem with it? If she's in this room and you're just [clears throat] over here? >> I'm not I'm not entirely sure. She actually came out of her room. So. >> Were there other people conducting their own business? >> No. >> Or recording? >> No. And even if they were, that's still not illegal. You can record whatever your eyes can see. Kind of like the same thing you guys do with plain view doctrine. If you can see it with your own eyes, there's no violation. Same thing. >> Are you trying to get >> I understand. I understand, Deputy. I understand. I understand. Yeah, but like I said, me and this young lady had a good dialogue about it. She She understood. What's that? >> After an ID demand with no clear legal basis, the exchange began to shift in a direction that forced the officers to rethink the situation. And as the truth slowly came to light, the foundation of the original call began to fall apart. >> Oh, yeah. I guess HR is coming down. Oh. >> So, if if that wasn't the person she was referring to, if there was somebody else there. >> Oh, okay. >> Okay. Did she say she got harassed? >> She thought she was being harassed, but >> Oh, wow. >> She got here and approached him, and not the other way around. >> And did she Was she doing that calling this? >> I believe I believe so. >> Okay. Yeah, yeah. >> Wow. So, that lady said she thought she was being harassed, even though she engaged me. Oh, wow. >> [sighs and gasps] >> Yeah, you can't make it up, Deputy Russ, man. You can't make it up, man. >> [laughter] >> Just know if they ask you to leave, then you have to leave. >> Well, the only way I would have to leave is if I'm committing a crime. You can't just ask me to leave just because you don't like what I'm wearing today. You know what I mean? >> Right. >> Yeah, I would have to commit a crime, and there's no crime afoot, so. >> Good to know that. >> Yeah. I had seen this young man, too. I had spoke You spoke to He was pretty nice when you spoke to him, he said. Are you like a manager here as well? >> Uh you know, I am. >> Okay. Okay, cool. Okay. Yeah, yeah. I'm momentarily I would try to figure all this out with you and with 911, but um in the moment I'll be filing a FOIA request with you guys. I'll be good to go after that. I'll be about it. What's your name, sir? Carey. Appreciate it, sir. >> And you guys don't have a problem with anything? >> Well, my understanding is he is free to be in the lobby area because it's a public space. No laughing and giggling and that happens. >> Appreciate that, Gary. >> Nope. Nope. If you have anything going on, if you need any help from us, go ahead and call. >> Okay, appreciate it, sir. Thanks a lot, man. And you know what? I will take the deputy uh Do you guys Can you guys One of you guys write down the CAD number at least for me? >> The CAD service number? >> Yeah, yeah. You can write it down for me. I appreciate it. Thanks a lot. And when I get this when I get this FOIA right here, like that, fill out the FOIA request, we should be good to go. We'll be good to [music] go. >> The incident ended with no arrest, but it stands as a reminder that a lack of legal understanding and respect for [music] citizens' rights can create consequences society never should have had to face. Next, a camera, a warning, and a call to police. No one expected this seemingly simple chain of events to quickly turn into a tense confrontation. >> Well, here he comes. He wants to mess with me. Let's see what he says. Oh, he's good. Oh, he's >> Can I do it for you? >> You cannot be camcording in my my yard. >> Did you see all that? This guy tried to say I can't film in public. Could you hear him? >> Yeah. >> Call the police. >> He said call his daddy. You heard that? >> Huh? >> This guy doesn't wear a mask. He doesn't believe in social distancing. He walks right up on people. I'm not on his property, so he can't say anything. Look at him. He tried to intimidate me with his truck. He pulls out with his big old truck and tries to intimidate me. And now he wants to try and run me over. No violation was ever pointed out and no clear legal basis was ever given, but somehow that did not stop the strange turn of events from continuing. Here comes somebody else going to check. Oh, they called the cops. This great. Oh, look. He wants to move the truck now. So, he doesn't Look like he intimidated a citizen and pulled out on a public area and tried to intimidate him. He's smart. Look, he wants to make himself look good for the police come and let him know he can't do nothing about me filming. He barks orders. You see that? People jump, man. They jump for him. Not me though. You see that? Well, I'll never jump for somebody. Yeah, all these people over our camera. It's like it It's like I did something. >> You don't even know what the Patriot Act is. >> You know what the First Amendment is? Yeah, he don't want to answer that. Look at that coward. He don't know what treats you. That's ridiculous. He don't even know his own laws. Well, if this guy owned this, you know, maybe. But there's public utilities right there. He doesn't own that public easement. This guy doesn't know about the ABA laws. American Disability Act. There's always way to have public easement. Look at this guy. He's going to learn today. I just can't wait. He's going to learn. He's going to learn. He's going to learn. I mean, this is a good education. And I'm doing it for free, guys. For free, so they can learn. >> After the call for help, police quickly arrived on scene. But no one expected that one demand for ID would ignite the most tense confrontation of the entire incident. >> Oh, he put the mask on. Did you see that, guys? He finally put the mask on. He's going to get educated right now. >> Let's go around to the other side. >> I don't know. He called called you. I'm just out here taking pictures, bro. >> Okay, fine. >> Um doing a story. What's your name and badge number? >> Howe, 2376. >> All right. >> What's your story? >> Um that's all I'm going to say. I'm going to do the fifth amendment right now. Just be remaining silent. I didn't call the police to waste taxpayer dollars. >> Okay. Did Did This is Are you on third lot? You have a right to be on this third lot? >> I know the owner hasn't trespassed me. >> Okay. >> And you can't inquire to trespass me from the owner unless he calls and it's not his lot. I have it on Google Maps if you want to look. I'm not going to answer any more questions though. I'm going to stand here and film. >> Here's here's how this is going to work. Okay, regardless, this is a critical infrastructure. You are required to identify yourself. >> No, I'm not. I haven't suspect I haven't been suspected of committing a crime. I haven't committed crime. Anything I can see with my eyes from public I can view with the camera. You can't do that. Don't even try that. >> you're refusing to identify yourself. >> I'm not I don't have to identify cuz it's you don't have a suspicion of crime. What suspicion of article of a crime have I committed? >> You are video taping critical infrastructure. >> It doesn't matter what I'm video Anything I could see he has to prevent the privacy. He has to make the privacy. It doesn't matter. I wasn't doing anything. I'm filming everything. He wanted to come out and almost hit me with his truck and bark orders. So you do something about that. I'm not IDing for something I don't have to. >> All right. >> As the officer's arguments kept running into sharp legal questions, he seemed to realize he was dealing with a man who knew the law and from that point on, the officer's controversial actions began to push the story in a completely different direction. >> All right, just make sure you stay on this property, okay? >> All right, only thing I have to ask you a question. >> Yep. >> Why are you going to lie to me like that, man, when I know my rights? >> I'm not lying to >> About having to say that I'm doing something illegal. I'm not. I want to have why you asked me if tell me I'm doing something illegal. But it's not illegal, is it, sir? You're a man I want to know for my for the rights. Is it legal or not for me to film this infrastructure? Anything my eyes can see I can view. Don't try to lie and bark orders again, bro. You're why nobody likes the cops cuz you don't know how to do your job. You see that, guys? He wanted to lie. There's no way he was going to lie and tell me that I was going to give him a ID because I'm filming a tanker facility. Look at that guy, 73407. Look at that guy. Did you guys get a lesson in the walk of shame? You see that? How he got dismissed, too? Your daddy got dismissed. Your daddy got dismissed. Just keep your car on him. That cop was total tyrant. Total tyrant cop. Total tyrant. Tried to lie. Tried to say he was going to get get me to force my ID. And it's never happening. You saw the walk of shame here. Walk of shame. All these employees thought they were going to see something happen, but that didn't happen. Their daddy came and shut them down. So, you see that guys, right? These guys over here at this facility and you saw what the facility was. It's William Tanker or some [ __ ] One of them to say that he was going to call the cops. The cops came. Even the cop was a tyrant. Tries to >> The confrontation ended with no arrest, but the debate over the limits of power and the responsibility of those enforcing the law is likely far from over. Citizens can sue police under Section 1983 when their rights are violated. Officers who violate those rights may face compensation payouts, disciplinary action, or even termination. When basic rights are challenged without a clear legal basis, anyone could find themselves in a similar situation one day. So, what do you think about this incident? If you enjoyed the video, don't forget to like, subscribe, and consider supporting us with a donation. Thank you so much. >> [music]