Can I even know who you are? >> the police are being called because you're trespassing. >> Trespassing you have to have criminal intent. I don't have any criminal intent. I'm not engaging in criminal activities. That's what trespassing comes with in Wisconsin. >> Right now? >> A camera, a citizen who knew the law and orders that pushed beyond legal authority turned an ordinary filming session into a tense confrontation. >> Don't be [ __ ] recording me. That's the thing. Don't have me on frame. >> Chill out young lady. Chill out. >> you're waiting for your appointment I can have you wait out there. I don't know. If you're waiting for your appointment I can have you wait out >> A camera, a few reactions that quickly lost control, and a citizen who would not be easily intimidated. From that moment on, the story began to expose the darker side of public authority. The moment a man raised his camera outside the jail, the atmosphere at the gate changed instantly. No one expected that just a few words later the people in power would be the ones facing serious questions. >> I work here. >> You? >> I'm a correction officer. >> You're a correction officer? And your name? >> Well, why did you need to know? You can't be on the property taking pictures and stuff. >> Why can't I be on the property taking pictures? >> It's state property. If you want to take pictures you can go across the street. >> State property means it's public property. >> Well, you can't take pictures up here. >> For sure I can. I can take pictures. It's a first amendment protected activity. Of course I can. >> Why would you want to take pictures? >> Oh, see that's a better question. Can I get your name before I start talking to you? >> Officer Coats. >> Officer Coats, okay. Officer Coats, I'm just I'm an independent journalist. I'm taking pictures and video. I'm working on a story here. That's why I would be what I would want to take pictures in public. >> Well, how long are you going to be here for? >> Oh, I have no idea. No idea. You take care now. >> Yes, sir. May I be able to help you with anything? >> Um, who are you? >> Uh, I am Sergeant Officer Lehman. >> Sergeant Lehman? >> Yes, sir. >> How how are you doing, Sergeant Lehman? >> I'm good. How are you? >> I'm doing well. Um no, I don't need any help with anything at the moment. Thank you. I appreciate that, Sergeant. >> What are you here for, what? >> Oh, I already explained it to officer uh I already forgot his name. >> who was out here just a minute [laughter] ago. >> Yeah, exactly. Exactly. >> property. You need to leave. >> This is not private property. >> camera down, please. >> So, this is Are you Are you a law enforcement officer? >> You are not allowed to take pictures or videotape this. >> I'm not allowed to take >> on the street and do the same thing. >> But, this is public property, sir. >> It's not. This is state property. >> Can I who know who you are? >> the police to be called because you're trespassing. >> Trespassing you have to have criminal intent. I don't have any criminal intent. I'm not engaging in criminal activities. That's what trespassing comes with in Wisconsin. >> Right now, you are trespassing. >> You do You have no authority. You have no authority outside of outside of that outside where you just left. That's where your authority ended, okay? >> Put the camera >> law enforcement. You're not law enforcement. So, I have to leave the property because I'm recording peacefully. >> Yes. >> Just a few simple questions were enough to make the claims of the man who said he controlled the property begin to crack. But, instead of giving a clear explanation, he chose a more familiar tactic. Repeatedly applying pressure to make the camera man leave. >> Are you a law enforcement officer? Who are you? >> I'm the supervisor here. >> What's your name? >> I don't have to tell you that. >> What's your name? >> My name is Adam Anthony. I'm the security director. I need you to go off of state property. >> What's your name, sir? >> I already said it. Now, you need to go out on the >> I just want to get your name before I leave. >> already. It's recorded, right? >> Yeah, sure. Sure. >> need you to stop off of state property. >> Are you law enforcement? >> We have notified law enforcement. You need to leave. >> Tell Do you Does he work for you? You need to calm down. You can't put your hands on anybody. Don't try and put your hands on me. I'm not one of your inmates in here. I'm a free citizen. Don't touch me, okay? >> Please, leave this property. >> Trespassing in Wisconsin comes with a criminal intent. >> be on this property. >> Yes, I can. This is open to the public. This is visitor parking lot. >> Well, if you want to you can go >> I'm a state >> This is a visitor parking lot, sir. >> police department to arrive and you can take it up with them. >> So, this is a visitor parking lot. I will take it up with the police when they get here. I will. >> do it from here. You need to step off of it. >> Well, you're not going to touch me neither any of you. You guys aren't law enforcement officers. Okay, great. I would like to take it up with the police, the law enforcement officers here who enforce the law. I'm not I'm not causing a disturbance. I'm not doing anything wrong. >> property and you can't be >> This is public property. This is open to the public. This is publicly accessible. >> very common misconception. If we had a public sidewalk that was running right here, that would be one thing. We do not. Everything So, those signs that say private property or state property, our state property, our state prison property >> Who owns the state property? >> You need to leave our property. May I >> How is it your property? Do you own it? Do you have the title, the deed to it? >> director responsible for security of this institution. So, in that respect, yes, I am responsible. >> But, you're you don't own it. The taxpayers own it. We the We the people Exactly. You just admitted it. >> doesn't mean you can necessarily come on it. I also own several >> I have business conduct here. I have business to conduct here. >> No, you >> Can I get your name, sir? >> Lieutenant Norton. >> Lieutenant Norton, how you doing, Lieutenant? Yeah, I'm just I'm a journalist. I'm gathering content for a story. I'm in publicly accessible areas. >> what? >> I'm an independent journalist. I'm working on a story. I'm not going in any to restricted areas. This is open to the public, sir. This is not There's time, place, and manner restrictions on these kinds of things. This is the broad daylight. >> for what? >> I'm an independent journalist, sir. I work for myself. >> Anybody could say they're an independent journalist. >> Yeah, because the anybody could be an independent journalist, sir. There is not There is not a restriction on the United States Constitution. We have freedom of press. I'm not doing anything nefarious. I'm not in a restricted area. The public can come up here all day long. >> doing. >> But, sir >> have asked me what I was doing here. >> You said already you are an independent journalist. >> After a wave of threats and mounting pressure, it seemed like the situation would keep escalating out of control. But just as the tension reached its peak, the arrival of real law enforcement sent the story in a completely different direction. >> That's on you, buddy. >> Hi, officer. How are you? >> Good. How are you doing? How are you yourself? >> Good. I'm just >> called you and said that you >> Yeah, I just wanted to speak with you guys. I don't want to I I like to de-escalate the situation. I don't want to escalate it any further than it would it was. >> Awesome. >> Those uh correctional officers, they were like ready to attack me, trying to go hands-on and you know, trying to grab my camera. >> Okay. >> escalating situation. I was nowhere in any sort of restricted area or anything. This is where visitors are allowed to be. You know, I'm I told them I'm an independent journalist. My name is Shawn, by the way. Can I get your name and badge number? >> Brian 375, Brian Diener. >> Diener? >> Can I give you a card? 375. >> Thank you. I'll take your card. Thank you so much, sir. Yeah, so >> the city, just so you know. >> You're with the city of Oshkosh? Okay, thank you, sir. Um yeah, so you know, but to escalate the situation, I wanted to remove uh to de-escalate situation, I wanted to remove myself from you know, their presence because they were getting I don't know if it's how they're they're used to treating people on the inside, but you know, I tried to explain some hey, my name is Shawn. I'm an independent journalist. I'm just working on a story, taking some pictures of the facility here. Not in any sort of restricted area, like near a fence or anything, just right there in the uh where they're standing right there. >> Okay. >> I was just get Yeah, in the parking lot. Yeah. >> And then did you go inside? >> No, never even went inside. >> went inside? >> No, never went inside. No, never went inside. My my I don't need for my pictures, I don't need pictures of the inside. I just I wanted some pictures of the outside. So they're like, you know, you're going to be arrested. So I said and they started freaking out and everything. So I said, you know what? Let me let me just walk over here. They said the police are on the way. And when I saw you guys come, I wanted to speak with you. That's why I called dispatch or whatever. But >> apologize for that. I saw you waving. >> Yeah. >> And I didn't know if you were just waving or kind of like >> Just to say hello. >> Some Some people Some people who are out your first amendment guys and people, you know, I didn't know what you were doing. So sometimes they're trying to get a reaction out of us. >> Oh, no, I wasn't. >> you No, it wasn't. No, I Yeah, no, no, no. That's That's not That's not what I do. You know, that's why I came over here. That's why I'm you know, I'm I'm talking to you the way I am. I'm just trying to I want this the whole thing to be de-escalated and for me to go about my business, honestly, you know. >> Yeah, and the the reason we were here, the reason we got called is we were told that there was a male that was not leaving. >> In the lobby, right? >> After the tension briefly settled, all eyes turned to one question. Would those earlier threats actually hold up under the law? And the answer police gave afterward quietly turned the entire situation around. >> Hi, good morning, officer. How are you? >> Good, you? >> Good. >> Yeah, Sean. >> How you doing? So, um I was talking with those uh VOC employees. So, um right now we're under no belief that you're doing any kind of criminal act. >> Correct. >> Um and I informed them of that. They're going to be talk you know, calling their legal departments to you know, find if there is something that says that you cannot be in you know, in the parking lot here. Um so >> Yeah, I was I was already familiar with Wisconsin trespassing. It usually has come with some type of criminal intent to do something. You know, and I I don't have that intent at all. I've >> Yeah, and I'm not not saying you do. >> Yeah. >> So, we were just going to verify cuz like I'm sure Officer Deener told you like we're unaware of any specific state statute that you know, says that you can't be in the visitor parking lot recording. >> Yeah. >> Okay. If there is some sort of state statute that they're going to come back to us and say, "Hey, look at this state statute that you know, this can't happen." And then you know, we can discuss that issue. >> Sure. >> And then that would be like the warning kind of thing like, "Hey, there is a state statute. Here's a state statute. You want to look it up yourself." >> Okay. >> And then >> That's fair. >> that would be like your warning. But [music] then if you would come back again >> That's fair. >> That would be show that intent that you're talking about, right? >> Yeah, that's fair. Exactly. >> about that when and if, right? >> Yeah, when and if. I'm not really too worried right now. So, can I just get your name and badge number for you? >> Officer Steffens, [music] 409. >> 409. Thank you, Officer Steffens. >> Cool, man. >> Officer Dinner, thank you. >> Yeah, no problem. Take care. >> Appreciate you guys. Thank you. >> No charges were filed, but the incident left a clear warning. Any power exercised without a legal basis can become oppression if it is not held in check. Next. Everything started out completely normal until one camera turned the entire public space tense. And after just a few questions, the signs of a confrontation began to show. >> See. >> Are you filming? >> Yeah. Yeah. It's okay, right? >> What is it for? >> Yeah, what is it for? >> What is what for? >> The film. >> It's not really I mean, I didn't really want to get into all those questions, but I'm definitely am filming. But it's all right, though, right? >> Uh well, cuz we have a lot of sensitive uh patient information, and if you're filming, you know, we can't have that on film. >> Well, of course not. Like, so you're talking about like uh like you said personal information, but I don't I don't think any of that you uh guys would have that just laying around, would you? Of course not. So, you all right, so. >> Like I said, um but what is the purpose of this film? >> Cuz we would have to consent to that. >> Consent? >> Yes. >> You guys would have to consent? Well, you guys work for the public, so there's really no consent is needed. You get what I'm saying? >> Yeah, but >> How you doing? >> I'm fine. >> Are you hearing the conversation out here? >> Yeah. >> Oh, you agree, right? >> Uh I mean, I think that when you're in public spaces, there's implied consent with filming as far as I'm aware that's the situation. >> Implied consent? >> Like when you're in public like public spaces, yes. This is not a private establishment. This is the public health department, so >> I I got you. >> And as far as I'm aware, that's what the law is in Illinois. >> Right. >> were on private property, it would be different. >> It would be different. You're absolutely correct, man. Are you like the administrator or supervisor? >> Uh nope. >> Oh, okay. Well, we definitely appreciate you absolutely knowing our rights, so I'm glad I seen you back here. Appreciate it. >> Are you trying to speak to a supervisor at all or >> Um no, not really. Just just walking around documenting everything today. I did see that uh the it was like two signs up front. The brand new signs though that I think the health department did put up about recording. With a sign. >> In the front front? >> Yeah, like when you first come in. >> Uh so yeah, I mean I'm I've only I haven't been here that long and I've only been in this department, so if there's an issue with the signages that's up in the front, you'd have to talk to the clerks up front about it. >> Yeah, yeah, I understand. But I was just saying from what you're saying and what we know, the signs up there do say they prohibit recording, but >> That would be something to discuss with them cuz I cannot speak to the policies of the department as a whole. >> For sure, for sure. I understand. I understand. Um >> What started as a few simple questions quickly turned into something that felt more like control. And when the cameraman refused to back down, another figure was called in, pushing the line between internal policy and citizen's rights into dangerous territory. >> Hi, can I help you? >> No, I don't need any help. I'm not even sure why they wouldn't fetch you like that. I'm not I'm not absolutely sure. >> I'm in the office. How can I help you, sir? You're recording. I need you to come out out of private patient spaces though, please. >> Well, this is not a private patient space. >> is. >> I just spoke to this young lady. She seems like she's the only one that has the knowledge of what's going on. >> If I can have you come out of the private patient space, I'd be happy to help you. >> I'm going to as soon as I get those public records that's on the wall right here, like I just told her. >> If you could come >> So you didn't hear anything I just said. >> I did. I'm asking you because this is a private patient space. I need you to come out. >> This is a public area, ma'am. This is not an office. This is not a doctor's office. >> Yes, actually it is. We see clients here. >> Not right here where I'm standing, though. >> Yes, actually we do, sir. >> Ma'am, how how do all this is public records right here? This is This is for the public. These are pamphlets. This is nothing private, man. We've been through this. Uh he should he should tell you. I've I've been through this over over 2 years now. >> Okay, the request here is how you do >> Yes, see see they know exactly why I'm here. That's why they're giving me a FOIA. I'll do this at the end of my visit. >> Okay. Again, sir, I have clients they need to register. If you could >> You can. You can register. >> because you're in the space where I need to register. >> No, ma'am. So, I'm going to I'm I'm going to say this one last time. I'm the public records that are behind you. I'm going to record those records because I have a right to do it. >> What records? Do you mean the brochures? >> That's absolutely correct. >> to grab some brochures and leave so that I can register my next client? That would be much appreciated. >> I'm going to Soon as I record it, though. But, I don't want to be rushed into doing it. And then you say leave. Leave what? The building? >> No, this is my my space so that I can register clients. >> So, your main thing is this office where I'm where I'm standing is a problem. >> Because I need to register my clients here. >> Not the health department in its entirety. >> I never said that. No, I'm just asking you to leave the office so I can register clients. That's >> Okay, so like I said, after I'm able to record right there >> If you could yeah If you need to grab some pamphlets and >> No, I don't need to grab any pamphlets. No, I don't need to I don't need to grab any. I just wanted to be able to uh record what's on the walls here. And I don't understand the security guy has just told you guys that, you know, it's it's it's not a you know, nothing is illegal what I'm doing and so I don't under >> The tension did not stop with the employees, as even the people nearby began getting pulled into the confrontation. And from that point on, a new question emerged. Is personal discomfort enough to to a lawful right into wrongdoing? >> Yeah. >> Uh this dude here, he must be a manager. You're a manager? >> Yeah. >> You You're a manager, right? >> I'm a I'm a health department employee, yeah. >> Oh, okay, yeah. Yeah, you can tell they're trying to uh Yeah, they're trying to uh They're trying to conspire, TPA family. Trying to conspire. It's crazy, man. Anyway, uh we still sitting here waiting to see >> Don't be [ __ ] rude. >> I'm recording, man. >> That's the thing. Don't have me on camera. >> Chill out, young lady. Chill out. >> If you're waiting for your appointment, I can have you wait out there. If you're waiting for your appointment, I can have you wait out there. >> I don't have to. >> Why are you recording? Why are you recording, man? >> I'm just recording publicly accessible areas. >> see, but I'm not comfortable with being on camera. >> I understand. It ain't about comfortable. It ain't about you being comfortable. >> Yes, the [ __ ] it is. If I went like this and I showed everybody where you were at, you would get mad, wouldn't you? >> Absolutely not. There you go. There you go. There you go. There you go. So, you said you're creating a private space, so I can take you to the back area. That's precisely what you will have to do. >> After a series of tense reactions, police finally arrived on scene. But surprisingly, the confrontation that seemed ready to explode began to shift in a completely different direction. >> So, who do I speak to about getting a FOIA request form? >> She didn't give you that earlier? >> No, she didn't give me a form. She just gave me a like a a card about it. Is that the form? >> Yes, that's the form right there. >> Well, I can fill it out and give it back to you? >> Yes. >> All right. I'll fill out this form right here. Fill this out real quick and get back to y'all, man. Get up out of here, man. Y'all stay tuned. Yeah, more of the same, TPA family. More of the same. Yeah, we know this dude right here, man. He He He kind of a tyrant, man. But they you know, they should have it by now. So, we'll see, man. What's going on, officer? >> What's going on, man? >> Yeah, obviously they called you for me, man. Ah, man. >> Hello. >> How you doing? >> I'm good. >> What can I help you with? >> Living in the car. >> Oh, living in the >> All right, here they go. >> Go call. >> Yeah, go call them. >> Yeah, they're going to take them to the back. Uh Taking them to the back. >> See that blue car? >> It's crazy, man. Make sure y'all stay tuned. Here's his partner. >> Sir, how are you? >> What's going on, officer? Good afternoon, as well. How you been feeling, man? >> I'm all right. How about you, man? >> Yeah, hours later he, he's back there talking to him. Yeah, yeah, obviously. >> I'm I'm late to the show, man. So >> Yeah, they called you guys for me, man. You already know that. Just recording in public, man, and couple of different personnel had some pushback about it, but security, not really. He, he, he knows about the rights we got, so >> How you been? >> Man, yeah, man. >> Haven't seen you in a while. >> Yeah, man. You know what's What's crazy is, when you know, when I first started, I was doing, you know, Lake County Health Department. I've never been to this location, so I said I'll I'll try them out, you know, so >> Yeah, absolutely. >> Yeah, man. So, how you been though? >> Can't complain, man. >> Yeah, you got a couple more years and then it's retirement for you, right? >> No, I know. I still got a long way to go. >> Really? >> I I came late to the game, man. >> Oh, well. It's all good, man. >> You know. >> Yeah. >> Time flies though, as you know. >> Oh, yeah. >> For sure. >> After a wave of accusations and a long-running dispute, the situation ultimately took a turn few people expected. And when police finally gave their conclusion, the very people who called them ended up looking uncomfortable. >> Okay. >> Let them know what's going on, but check. >> Yep, exactly. You can you can do what you got to do. Just just just be calm and courtesy. Just don't put you know, put your camera over you know, the people that are doing their stuff at the desk. Okay? >> Of Of Of >> Thank you. >> Of course I'm not, man. I You know what? I I I I never do. >> That's it. Okay. >> Oh, that was it? >> That's it, man. Yeah, just just Okay. You know, the people are just kind of a little bit upset cuz you're kind of over you know, over their shoulder kind of stuff. >> I didn't do that one time today. I'm just saying. Yeah, it's all good, man. For sure. Hey, matter of fact, out of one of your officers, can I get the CAD number? Cuz I'm a for my Yeah, like the call for service number. Incident report number. Yeah, it's cool. >> 5292 What's your report number? >> It's going to be 2519022. >> Appreciate that, man. All right, new desk, man. Thanks a lot, man. You too. So, uh >> In the end, the camera did not lead to an arrest, but it did expose the discomfort of those who tried to turn a citizen's rights into something that needed police intervention. Citizens can sue police [music] under Section 1983 when their rights are violated. Officers who violate those rights may face compensation [music] payouts, disciplinary action, or even termination. When citizens' rights [music] are disregarded, society's silence can become complicity in abuse of power. So, what do you think [music] about this situation? If you enjoyed the video, don't forget to like, subscribe, and consider supporting us with a donation. Thank you so much. >> [music]