Is this a public distance? Probably public, yes. You are not free to go though. You are being detained at the moment. We're going to detain you. Where are you going? Return my ID back. >> Just for filming in public, this man was handcuffed by Pueblo police like a criminal. But in the end, it was the officers themselves who became the center of an abuse of power scandal. >> Okay. >> Do you have any ID with you at all, or something like that? >> have I committed a crime? >> Well, I'm investigating a crime. >> that, but >> Well, we want to hear your side of the story, right? >> I already told you. I've been on this sidewalk the entire time. What? >> So, how can I take your report out there of a false reporting if you don't even tell me identify yourself? >> There was no evidence, no crime. Yet, police still detained this man over nothing more than an ID. And what happened next sparked intense controversy. From just a single security call, the man holding a camera was immediately stopped by police and pressured to show ID. There was no clear evidence of wrongdoing. Yet, the confrontation with law enforcement kept growing more intense. >> Oh. Here we go. Good afternoon. >> How are you, sir? >> I'm doing well, thank you. >> Good. >> Is there something wrong? >> on their wall. >> Excuse me? >> Is it true that you were on their wall? >> On their wall? >> Yeah, they claimed that you were on top of the wall. >> But that is ridiculous. >> It is ridiculous. >> I've been on this sidewalk the entire time. >> Well, do they have video cameras here, too? >> I don't know. I don't know. >> Well, we'll double check. >> I was not on the I was never off the sidewalk. Right down there, straight down here. If they tell you that >> we were called for. We're trying to figure it out. >> Okay, so so if I can prove that I wasn't, are you going to are you going to are you going to cite them for calling in a false report? >> Well, I have to hear both sides. I've always only talked to you so far. >> Okay. >> So, what seems to be going on? >> Nothing. I'm doing a little story on the water plant. I'm just getting some footage of some vehicles moving in and out. >> Oh, okay. You're not causing [music] any trouble? You're like a reporter or something? >> I am I am I'm with the press. Yes. >> Oh, which one? >> I'm with Arizona United News. >> Never heard of it. >> Oh, we're an online service. >> Oh, wow. >> Mhm. >> Okay. Do you have any ID with you at all? >> I don't know. Have I committed a crime? >> Well, I'm investigating a crime. >> I understand that, but >> You want me to hear your side of the story, right? >> I already told you. I've been on the sidewalk the entire time. >> What? So, how can I take your report out of a false reporting if you don't even tell me identify yourself? >> Well, uh Do Do you suspect me of committing a crime? I'm I'm just asking you. >> Well, at this stage I don't have a crime yet. Okay, >> And then I don't I don't have a I don't have an obligation to provide you an ID. >> Well, there is a statute that says you're required to have provide identification. >> Yeah, do you know what it is? You know what it is? 13-2412. >> A. >> And it says that >> after I tell you that you're supposed to give me your identification. >> If I have not If I'm not in my vehicle, I might be detained. I might be in your town. >> You'll be in your town until we find out if there's truth or facts to the case. >> Reasonable articulable suspicion of a crime, can you say that you're detaining me by? >> They're reporting you're trespassing on their wall. >> So, you're going to take their word for it? >> I'm investigating it, so you're not free to leave while I investigate or is that fair? >> That That's fair, but but I >> I want to hang out with you. There's another officer over here. I can't talk with you both at once. >> Well, you can go talk to him. I'm not going anywhere. >> Okay. >> Where am I going to get? >> I don't know. How did you get here? >> When officers failed to get the ID they wanted, they immediately shifted to vague suspicions to apply more pressure. But what they didn't expect was that this man understood the law well enough to completely turn the interrogation around. >> Well, they're reporting suspicious activity. >> Is that a crime? >> Suspicious activity is something we need to check out. >> Is it a crime? >> It could be a crime. >> A misdemeanor or felony? >> It could be both. >> Which one is that? What What is What is the What is the ARS for suspicious activity? I'm dying to hear that because I'm not familiar with it. >> Well, well, you're just playing games. >> No, I'm not. No, I'm not. I'm trying to You know what? I want nobody I want nobody to bother me. I'm just getting some footage for my story. >> This is a secure facility and they're reporting that you were on the wall. >> Well, they're lying. >> Well, we'll try to get to the bottom of that, okay? >> Yeah, ask him. >> It's certainly suspicious to them enough to call us. >> I'm a reporter and I'm getting footage for my story. No one came and asked me anything. I'm on a sidewalk. >> This doesn't even have a name on this. It could be anything. You could make that up. >> Sure I could. Sure. Yeah, I don't need press credentials to say I'm a member of the civilian press. >> With all the horrible things that are in the news nationwide >> I got? What do I got? What am I going to do with the camera? >> You're doing recon for bad guys. >> Recon, right in the middle of the day. I'm going to come do recon. And what am I And what do you think I can see that I can't spot on Google Earth? A lot of things. >> Really? Tell me I'm curious, sir. What What do you think? >> than Google Earth. >> I'm a lot closer than Google Earth. I can't see past that wall. I can't see anything. Hold on. Let me Get down. I'm going to get these guys up on the wall. Is that a crime? Is that a crime? Okay. >> It's certainly suspicious. >> Okay, and suspicion is not in the ARS statutes. I challenge you to find it. >> The confrontation grew more intense as police continued throwing out vague accusations, seemingly trying to pressure the man into admitting to a crime. But instead of falling into the trap, each question he fired back only left the officers looking more confused and unprepared. >> You don't understand why people would make up stories. Just because they're uncomfortable. Why? One guy came out and asked me if I needed any help. I said, "No, I'm just getting some footage." So. >> You seem uncomfortable with identifying yourself. >> I don't need to identify myself. >> Well, if we're in the >> You You seem You seem very comfortable walking up to any person and asking to to abuse their rights. >> I'm not trying to abuse anybody's rights. >> Sure you are. >> You even know the statute of 13-24-12A. >> Tell it to me. >> It says that if I'm lawfully detaining you during a lawful stop Okay, you have to provide me your name. >> exactly right. What is the lawful reason that you have detained me? >> Lawful investigating >> That's not a that's not a lawful reason. >> That's not a lawful reason. >> Well, I don't think you understand that then. Because you're not free to leave because I'm talking with you about what they reported >> Very good. >> as trespassing. >> I don't have any ID on me. >> So that's lawfully >> I don't have any ID on me, so don't worry about >> Do you think that's a lawful detention? >> No, it's not. >> Why not? >> Investigation is not a lawful detention. >> Why do you say that? >> Because you have to have you to be able to articulate a reasonable suspicion. What's my What's your RS? What is it? >> So if we find out that you are trespassing and you fail to identify yourself, you could be charged with a misdemeanor. >> Who could do? Okay. >> Find that out. Make up something that that puts me on that wall. I'm happy to go to jail for that. >> Cuz that is ridiculous. >> Okay. >> At the same time, I'd like to I'd like to know who here reported me by saying that. >> I can work on that. I can find that out. >> I I uh >> It could be in the police report for you, okay? >> Okay. I want to know I want to know why people think I'm I'm breaking the law right now. Why am I Why What is everybody worried about a camera? >> A person does not have to break the law for the police to call for them to call the police on somebody. >> I understand that. I understand that. >> Go and tell >> After several tense minutes of arguing, two other officers finally stepped in to clarify the situation with security. But even as the truth started turning the encounter around, the original officer still refused to back down, continuing to pressure the man with threats. >> This is public sidewalk, okay? >> And he's trying to lie about the video footage which I don't know. >> Got you. >> So if you could find out if there is security video where he is on their property, I explained them he's failing to identify himself so far and he doesn't think he's being lawfully detained, but he's not free to leave because we're investigating. >> Right. >> This uh allegation of trespassing. >> Okay, I'll go tell them. >> Excellent. Love it. Love it. So how's your day going? >> Pretty good. >> You just uh start your shift or you uh >> No. >> You've been about ready to go home? >> No. >> Excellent. >> I'm right in the middle of >> How are you doing, ma'am? >> I'm fine, thank >> Hi, can I have your name and badge number, please? >> I got it, it's right there. >> Can you say it for me, please? I I don't read very well. >> I plan again 11935. >> 11935. Thank you very much. I appreciate that. Yeah, I'm one of those guys. >> Yeah, we'll see. >> Suspicious activity is not a crime. >> Yeah, but trespassing is. >> I'm not trespassing. I'm not trespassing. I understand that. Well, if they're a high-powered high-powered secure facility, they can they can easily prove that. >> You you agreed that this is a lawful detention because we're investigating a crime. They're alleging a crime, so we're investigating. >> Okay, very good. >> So, under 13-24-12A, you're required therefore to >> You know what? I'm going to disagree and I'm going to stand here and consider it a consensual conversation, right? >> That's fine if you want to consider whatever you want, but will you please give me your first name? >> Yes, sir. >> Will you please give me your last name? >> No, sir. >> Will you please give me your date of birth? >> No, sir. No, sir. If I've committed a crime and legally detained >> If you're lawfully detained, you are committing a crime by not identifying yourself. So, that is a crime. It's a class 2 misdemeanor. >> You know what? Yes, that's >> And you even quoted me that statute, so you know that statute very well. >> I I do know that statute, and when you detain me lawfully, uh then I will I will gladly give my full name. I understand that. I understand that. But not lawfully. >> How do How is it not lawful? >> I haven't committed a crime. You have no reason. None at all. >> After speaking with security, the truth finally began to come out. And what happened next caused nearly all of the original accusations to completely fall apart. >> Mhm. >> All right. I I I do find it terrible that that all these resources are wasted on this you be because you guys could be doing something else. You could be >> Well, if somebody would have ill intentions and we were to identify the person and stop them then >> You should have made that determination right away, right? You didn't you didn't try to assess me right away, right? I can't do that? >> All right. >> Hey, man. Hey, here's the deal. You're not in any trouble. You are on the sidewalk. You're allowed to record. All I ask is if I didn't say you were you did prior. Just don't step on their property. Don't block their driveway. And if people come to the sidewalk, I don't know it's kind of hot outside. I don't know if they're going to be walking. Just kind of step to the side and say hello. >> Got him. Got him. Got him. >> Got him. >> Got him. I am 58 years old and I know how to get out of the way of of traffic. I know not to block a sidewalk and and traffic needs to yield to pedestrians, right? >> Sounds good. And any questions at all? >> Uh yeah, I want to know uh why it is they can call in a police report and say I was on their property when I wasn't. >> They They can They can call all day. >> miscommunication >> They can call all day. >> They saw you right by where that traffic pylon it is. >> Yeah. >> So they That's they just thought that you were on the other side of the property. That's So that's what it was. >> And we confirmed that you weren't. >> Yeah. So that's why we're all done. >> All right. >> Have a good day. >> All right, folks. Thank you very much for upholding your oath. I appreciate it. >> The confrontation ended without any arrests. All that remained were the cameras still rolling. And a moment that showed how even authority sometimes has to step back in the face of the Constitution. A citizen may file a lawsuit under Section 1983 if their rights are violated. Officers found in violation could face financial liability, disciplinary action, or even termination. Next, standing on a public sidewalk with nothing more than a camera, this man had no idea he was about to become the center of a tense confrontation. What caused the situation to escalate so quickly? >> Yeah, y'all got to forgive me. I can't zoom in on this GoPro. This is a a citizen coming out, y'all. I'm about to be quiet. I would give it to him because they know. This guy knows what's going on, y'all. He watches these, and I believe him, y'all. I really want to give him the channel just because he's a I I know I know my elders is the one that's supporting probably the most. People over 50, 60 years old, they watch these videos all the time. So, he recognized the guy, and now he's educating the police. Look, look, y'all. He's educating the police. Look. Look, I love my elders, man. Look at him. He understands. >> The initial suspicions didn't stop there. As soon as the first officer arrived on the scene, the focus seemed to shift away from any specific criminal activity and toward the man's identity instead, setting the stage for a highly controversial confrontation that was about to unfold. >> Sir, I need your name and your date of birth. Sir, I need your name and your date of birth, sir. Sir, I need your name and your date of birth. I need your name and your date of birth, sir. You don't You don't have to answer any questions, but I just want to ask you questions, but I need your name and your date of birth. One more time. I need your name and your date of birth. If you do not give it to me, I'm going to detain you until I figure out who you are. I am trying not to do that. I just need your name and your date of birth. It's the only thing you have to give me at this point. Yes. Also, walk away. Badge number 711. I need your name and your date of birth. What's going to happen is I'm asking for your name and your date of birth one more time and I'm going to detain you. That's why I know who you are, right? You can hold your camera. You're about to put it down or something, but I'm about to detain you in just a moment. I need your name and your date of birth. You're hard casing the bank. You're a possible casing the bank. You're out at the bank. Possibly recording them with the ATM. This is a sidewalk. This is public property. Yes. You are not free to go, though. You are being detained at the moment. I am trying not to put you in handcuffs, but I will. Give me your name and your date of birth. I'm about to. I'm about to have to figure out who you are. Do I know who you are? Okay. >> The conversation seemed to have reached a dead end. Then, a female officer unexpectedly arrived on the scene. No one could have predicted that her presence would become the catalyst that pushed the situation far beyond anything that had happened up to that point. >> So, got nothing from him. He refuses to tell me who he is. Just going to detain him for the moment until we know exactly who he is. That's about all we can do. If he doesn't answer any questions or anything, didn't give me anything. I've probably asked five times now. So, so we're going to have to go and tell me nothing. We're going to do the same thing. We're going to do the same thing. Yeah, you got it. Put him on your back. Get your supervisor. I asked you who you were. All you had to do was tell me. When I call him. He won't come out here first. No, he won't. So, you can hold your camera or you can put it down. It's up to you. Okay. I'm not asking. You're being detained, so I'm going to just make sure you don't have any weapons on you. One more time. Can you tell us who you are? Name and date Get your chief here. I don't want to have to do this to you. No problem. Do you already have the car camera on? I'll put it on right now. Can I get somebody to bring me a crime book? Not for Kansas law, we don't. Have Have a seat. Have a crime. Suspicion, yeah. Right now, your activity is essentially Can you have a suspicion activity to a crime? Can you turn the constitution? Let me stop me shut up to you. Get your chief here. >> You're trespassing, man. >> Yep. >> Everything seemed to be unfolding exactly as the officers had intended. But just minutes later, a completely different assessment was made. One that began to turn the entire situation on its head. >> How you doing, sir? Can I get your name? >> police department. >> get your badge number, please? >> 975. >> Hey, listen. So, we going to keep this just real short and sweet. I never been on a private I'm out here conducting constitutionally protected activity. They trying to turn that into a crime. >> Sure. Okay. So, >> All I ever deal with is on this sidewalk. >> I understand the reason we came out here is because they don't they were concerned because they said you were filming close to the ATM. Their concern is that with the ATM open, the transaction codes are visible that can be inputted into other ATMs. They're concerned about possible robbery, casing for robbery activity. They're concerned about possible theft of information. They don't know what's going on. >> And that I mean cuz I don't Let me just ask them one So, if they were they nervous about, they should put a box around it because they They have to create their own problems. >> don't they were concerned >> Go ahead. >> So, that said, um they they called us out here because they were apprehensive in contact with you because they don't know what's going on. So, we make contact with you. Uh it sounds like >> That's just how it works, all right. >> from what from what you're telling me, from what they're telling me, it doesn't sound like you committed a crime. We detained you while that we were going and figuring that out, okay? So, that said, I don't have any more reason to hold you. So, I'm going to have you stand up and we're going to let you out of handcuffs and let you continue on, okay? That said, Armed Forces Bank does not want you on the property anymore. >> I never been on their property, man. Never. >> Okay. So, so they're saying that you were >> They are I got the I got a camera, man. That's impossible to say that. >> you can't come back to Armed Forces Bank. >> I never on their side. >> So, you can think about it whatever you want. I'm telling you you can't come back to Armed Forces Bank. >> That's fine. I never been on their property. >> Can you stand up, okay? >> Yeah. >> Just go ahead and hurt me. I wasn't going to hurt you. I hope you actually learn something today. This is what I teach and y'all and y'all put these on kind of on me kind of tough and I was really kind of concerned. Why y'all had to detain me? I waited on y'all to get here. I wasn't running. >> So, I don't have any more business for you. So, you're free to go and you have a nice day, okay? >> The incident may have come to an end, but the questions surrounding the decisions made by the initial officers remain unanswered. Was this a legitimate law enforcement response or a sign of the kind of overreach that any citizen [music] could find themselves facing? Suspicion may be enough to start an investigation, [music] but it should never be allowed to replace evidence. What do you think about [music] this situation? Let us know in the comments below. If you enjoyed the video, don't forget to like, subscribe, [music] and support our fundraising efforts. Thank you so much for watching. >> [music]