File a FOIA. So, it's Freedom of Information Act. >> Okay. >> Public, you know, public information for the state of Wisconsin. I'm trying to >> because he's not allowed to video. >> Yeah, I'm not recording anybody's personal information. What's your name, Officer, and badge number? >> Officer Cruz, 95. >> Appreciate that. Okay. >> Simply for exercising a lawful right, this man found himself at the center of a confrontation with three police officers, and what happened next could leave an entire agency facing difficult legal questions. >> I can't record in the post office? What? Why is that? As soon as As soon as I walked in here, they were very aggressive. Get out of here without even asking me what I needed, what I wanted, and I asked her a question, where is the supposed to seven that is supposed to be on the wall at every post office? It's It's It's supposed to be on the wall. >> A law-abiding citizen, multiple public officials, and a series of controversial decisions. What happens when authority is misused in front of someone who knows exactly what his rights are? What seemed like an ordinary visit to city hall quickly took a completely unexpected turn just minutes later. No one could have predicted that such a simple situation would become the center of a tense and highly controversial dispute. >> Um, yeah. Yeah, actually, where would you in this building go locate to pay like traffic fines and stuff like that? >> Um, okay. Well, traffic would be most at the PD. >> Not Well, like like parking tickets. >> Yeah, those would also be at the the police department. >> Is that like next door? >> Yeah, it's the >> In same like kind of like close though? >> Yeah, oh yeah, right across the street. >> Across the street? Okay. >> Yes, it is. >> Okay, cuz I know they said I can come to city hall and do it, so. >> For parking tickets? >> Yeah. Okay. >> No, they switched over to stop that in the parking. >> Oh, okay. All right. >> [snorts] >> Somebody told me that station? >> Yeah. >> yeah, that's the building right there. >> Okay, dokey. What's What's the Is the city clerk's office? >> Yeah. Yeah, so like if you want to Like if you need to cut your grass, you know, they get fines for that kind >> Really? >> You know, yeah. [clears throat] >> Okay. >> Stuff like that. [music] Um, you pay your taxes here. Um, let's see what else. Um Uh, you like if you want to like get a permit [music] to like if you're going to have a block party or something. >> Oh, okay. >> They come Yeah, all that kind of stuff. >> Oh, okay. Okay. Appreciate it. What's your name? >> My name is Laura. >> Laura, appreciate it, Laura. Thanks a lot. >> Let's move on. Hello. >> Okay, so >> Now, the Laura was actually able to help me to say you pay the tickets across the street, right? >> Yeah. Over that way. >> Over that way. Yeah, so is it walking distance or no? >> Well, what did she tell you to do? >> It's like a parking ticket. Just oh >> Yeah, so that's actually I mean if it's within the city of Riverside, it's going to be at the police department, which is right across the street over there. >> Okay. Yeah, it's a walking distance then. Okay, what's your name, ma'am? >> Amber. >> Amber, thanks a lot. For sure. All righty. You too. >> What began as a seemingly simple request suddenly turned into a heated debate over fundamental civil rights. And when law enforcement arrived, the biggest [music] question became who was truly standing up for the law. >> She said anything I need or want with >> with Natalie? >> Nah, I don't even know who that is. This my first time even in this building. >> Oh. >> Yeah. >> I think that's just a website name. >> A website name, yeah. And like I said, I can fill it out. >> think it's online? >> Yeah, it's cool. It's cool. >> a um a sheet. >> I Like I said, I'll just fill it out on one of these little blank sheets. >> I don't have a sheet. I just have the website. So, And you have access to um I know the library has the computers and the website. >> Yeah. >> And I know that they um print off. So, you can look on that website cuz that's the first time I ever heard of FOIA. We don't have those. >> Yeah. What What I'm trying to tell you is like we can still fill it out on a blank sheet and I can turn it in to you guys. So, it's public information for the state of Wisconsin. Public request. No. No, you guys like you guys you do you guys do. You This is Racine County Health Department. >> that it's different um >> [snorts] >> What do you call it? Different departments. >> That's correct. >> We don't deal with like animal licensing and restaurant >> I got to I understand. I understand. But it But I being a health department I still can turn it in. That's what I'm saying. >> But not here. We don't deal with that part of the >> No, I know you guys don't. But like say say Say for instance when I turn it in when I turn it in you guys afford it to the appropriate person whoever you guys is FOIA officer is. And that's how that [ __ ] go. >> have a FOIA officer. >> Okay. Well, I I'll I'll look into it. Like I said, I'll still fill it out and we'll go from there. How you doing, officers? >> Good. How are you? >> Pretty good. Uh nothing much. They called you um they called you about the sign here and I was trying to convey to this young lady that uh the sign has It's just the sign. There's no laws, statutes, codes, or anything attached to it. I'm here for official business. I'm trying to follow FOIA requests as you guys can see when you first came in. >> If this had started as nothing more than a routine conversation, the arrival of this employee quickly pushed everything beyond control. But what surprised many people even more was the sergeant's response afterward as if he had forgotten what he had sworn to protect in the first place. >> He's videotaping. There's [snorts] um personal protected health information here. So, he's >> Yeah, I'm not recording any of that. >> I did ask him to leave because he's we're allowed to video. >> I'm not recording anybody's personal information. >> What What are you trying to accomplish here as far as what What kind of service are you trying to get? >> Okay. What's your name, officer, and badge number? >> Officer Cruz, 9503. >> Appreciate that. Okay, one more time. I'm trying to file a FOIA. Like I I just conveyed that to you guys. A FOIA request. This young lady was just helping me with that. [music] I'm documenting it as well, which I have a right to do. The Supreme Court has already ruled on this. We can document public officials in the course of their duties. That's precisely what I'm doing. I know exactly what I'm doing. It's all over all over the country. So, I'm trying to do that. She was just trying to help before you guys walked in, as you guys can see. That's all I'm trying to do. >> [snorts] >> Well, what's the issue? >> Uh it's can't We We are not allowed to have video recordings in here. Um anyone getting services, we are protecting our clients, and we're protecting the information that we have here. >> So, he's not allowed to be videotaped. >> And just for the record, there's no one even in here but me, so I'm not recording any clients. >> why we are protecting >> We're talking about that as of right now, there's nobody here but me. >> I get that, but that's their policy as far as here. You got people come and go. >> What What See, I'm not going to understand that, sergeant, right? You're a sergeant? Okay. I can understand their policy, but that's just it. Their policy is diametrically opposed to the Constitution. It's the total opposite. So, I'm exercising a right, which policy doesn't have any force of law, but the Constitution does. So, like I just told this officer and this young lady, I'm trying to file a FOIA, which I also have a right to do. She was just trying to help me with that. She's not interested in helping. It's okay. I'll file it and I'll book on out. >> I will assist him. >> See, that's That's a direct violation of my constitutional rights. Hopefully, you guys don't aid her in in doing so. >> I can't override her. >> That's correct. >> So, I guess what you want to get accomplished is not going to get accomplished unless you turn the recorder off. >> Well, see See, she was just helping me. >> Well, she turned the recorder off. I can't force them to help you, so you're not going to get any assistance unless you it in on the computer. >> Well, I like I like I just told this young lady here, she was very nice and helpful. Even if it's a health it's a health department on the second floor, same sign, same thing. They them them guys were beautiful. Uh if they don't I can just fill it out on a blank sheet of paper, turn it in, and I'm out of here. That's exactly what I'm getting ready to do. >> Okay. >> I mean, that's okay. She doesn't have to help, but she will. [music] >> There was no crime, no disturbance, and no violation ever identified. Yet multiple officers were still dispatched to the scene, raising an unavoidable question. Was this really law enforcement in action, or simply a waste of public resources? >> For him to accomplish what he needs to get done, he needs to go to the website to fill out the form. >> needs to go to the website online. >> And I'm trying to convey to her that I can fill it out in person. It is a >> She's just telling you now you have to do it online. >> Yeah, no, but it's lawfully I don't have to is what I'm saying. It's not a requirement. She doesn't understand that. That's okay. I don't blame her for that. I'm telling you guys the law says I can do it in person and online. >> have any forms here. >> I know. That's why I'll fill it out on a blank sheet, which I can do that by law. You know, that's all that's all I want to be able to accomplish here today is just exercise our rights. We want to do it unmolested, though. >> Okay. >> So >> So how are we what are we going to do to accomplish it? Because you're not going to You have to file it online. They're not going to take your sheet of paper. >> They No, they didn't say that, Sergeant. I You you're you're saying that. She didn't say that. She just said she's just telling me to file it online. Never said anything about not accepting it. If they don't accept it, that's cool. Then that's just That's another violation [clears throat] of the FOIA Act. That's okay. >> Okay. >> That's okay. But but I I still need to fill it out and turn it in. So they called you guys here just for just a waste of resources. It's just wasting you guys' time. >> Well, not necessarily. I mean, their rule is they can't have anybody video taping inside here, so they called us on that. >> I I can understand that's a policy. Like I said, it doesn't supersede the Constitution. You And you guys are law enforcement. And this is part of the law what I'm doing. It's a right. You know, you you can't come here and enforce policy. >> But they have tried to accommodate you and you're unwilling to >> Unwilling? Why would you use that term, uh sir? What am I unwilling to do? I just told you what I >> do it online, right? >> I That's one way and you can do it in person. And actually in Wisconsin Oh, absolutely. You can. You can. >> Well, that would be something new to me. >> Oh, okay. Well, yeah. Everybody's learning. >> Well, they're they're not going to do that. So, I guess where are we going to go with this? >> What's your name and and badge number, sergeant? >> I am Sergeant Bebo and it's 1916. >> 1916. Okay, what I'm trying to convey to you, sir, is they never said they wasn't going to do anything. >> Okay. >> Well, we'll put that out there. So, when I fill it out on a blank sheet and hand it to this young lady and she rejects it, we'll be good to go. It'll be on camera that she's rejecting it and it will be And that's it. That'll be a violation and we'll move forward with litigation. >> paper and >> Oh, yeah. This is something Yes. Several of them right behind you. I mean, I hear some people. Yeah, I am, but I don't need you guys to like kind of rush me into doing that. You know what I mean? I'm I'm definitely going to. >> words in my mouth. I never said one time that I'm rushing you. I never >> No, you I know you didn't. >> Just when it seemed the incident was finally over, the man made it clear he wasn't ready to let it go. And this time, it was the officers themselves who found themselves facing a series of tense and uncomfortable questions. >> Hey, you guys' body cams on or no? >> Yes. >> Oh, you guys' is too? Cuz I see hers beeping and that's That's an indicator that it's on, right? Yours is not. [music] >> Mine is on. It's super quiet. >> Okay. >> So, we have them on. >> Okay. So, yeah. I mean, you guys might get some more calls, you know what I mean? From uh different public entities around here and if you do, I mean, I can't really tell you to disregard, but obviously you'll know it's me and you probably should just give these people an education that I'm not doing anything illegal. Sounds pretty good or no? >> We'll take it a case-by-case. I don't know if they need to be I think there's in >> Well, what do you definitely would need to be educated because she just got off the phone stating that someone told her I could do it. >> Oh, it's okay. >> So, she she received an education. I'm just saying as police officers you guys sworn oath to to the Constitution. >> Yeah. >> You guys should have did that first. That's all I'm saying. >> have what? >> You should have did that first. Like told you should have educated her first. >> Well, you have your process, we have our process. >> So >> I don't tell you how to do things, you probably shouldn't tell us how to >> Well, I'm not trying to tell you, but I'm just saying >> you literally just said. >> Sorry, what I'm trying to say you're a sergeant. You're a sergeant. It would have looked great for you to educate them on our constitutional rights, something you swore an oath and up to uphold. So, why why can't I tell you that if you're failing in those attempts? >> We're here to accomplish the call and that's what we did. So, you you got what you needed, right? >> Yeah, but my now I'm holding you accountable for not upholding my rights. I'm I'm done with that. Now, I'm holding you accountable for not upholding my rights and these officers as well. >> Okay. We did uphold your rights. You got everything accounted She wanted to >> No, you yeah, but only because they found out. No, I'm going to stick around. I'm not going to leave until you leave. Now see now you're becoming, you know what I mean, you're becoming kind of rude now. For what? >> I don't understand how I'm being rude. >> Because you're telling me you you think it's best that I should move on. Why? Why can't I just hold you accountable and see if you're going to be transparent because you just wasn't? >> I absolutely wasn't. >> And that's absolutely not. As soon as I told you what I was doing, you you would have came in and say he has a right to do it. It's his first amendment right, freedom of press, leave the guy alone. That's doing the right thing. You didn't do that. And you none of these officers did either. >> That's the way of your way of handling the call. We didn't >> Yeah, if I was a police officer, I would have handled it that way. Of course not. Well, I I just think it's disgusting that you didn't come [music] in and and and and basically honor your oath today. You swore an oath. >> Okay. >> And you did not I need Now, I need your I need your name. I need [music] your name. >> The story ended without anyone being arrested, but it left behind an important lesson. When citizens' rights are not properly understood and respected, the greatest harm is not just to one individual's freedoms. It is to the public's trust in justice, fairness, and the institutions meant to protect them. Next, a camera, an ordinary looking location, and then everything suddenly spiraled out of control. What was it about this man's presence that caused so many employees to react all at once? >> I can't record in a post office? Why? Why is that? It's a policy that no member of the public can record here. All right, I think you're wrong. Yeah. >> That's federal law, and he's right. >> Who's saying that? >> I do. >> Okay, well, I would challenge you on that. >> So, wait, what's your Can I What's your reason >> What's my reason? And what makes you think I have to explain to you why I'm here? >> Cuz you've been recording your camera. I don't want to be camera on the internet. camera on the internet. >> You're in public. You have no expectation of privacy in public. Which makes it a public building. >> It doesn't make it a public building. >> Our camera also asked you why. >> Our fact that >> Right? I'm sorry? >> You can also ask you the same way you feel like you >> I don't like it. >> the same way we can ask you why. >> Yeah, you can. You have the right to ask me why, and then I have the right not to answer you. Yeah. Yes. >> We need more federal regulations. >> Right, man? >> What's up, man? It's okay. That's what he wants, so we're just going to leave him alone and let him do his do what he wants to do. >> I appreciate it. >> Just don't put me on your camera or upload me to any of your channels. >> [music] >> You >> I'm sorry? >> I need you to stop recording or leave my premises. I'm going to call the police. >> Do you Have you heard about poster seven? Do you have a poster seven in here, somewhere? What What's your name? Can I have your name? >> The initial disagreements quickly escalated as the manager repeatedly demanded that the man leave the post office. But what shocked many people even more was her next move, an action that nearly threw the entire operation inside the building into chaos during business hours. >> Ma'am, you do realize you're a public employee. >> Listen, don't don't speak to me. [music] Don't speak to me. I'll speak to you when the police get here. >> I can speak to you. You don't have to You don't have to speak to me. >> Well, don't ask me. >> All right. I can ask you a question. You don't have to talk to me. It's your fifth amendment right to ignore me. That's okay. Do you have cameras in here? I see what I see a camera up there. So, how come you have a camera and I can't have one? That doesn't seem fair. Ma'am, can I get your name? I saw you took a picture of me. Can I have your name? I heard I heard you say you were the manager here. No? Yeah, so far. For the record, it it seems like they've stopped serving people just because I'm here. [clears throat] Um I haven't seen seen one postal attendant helping someone um [music] for the past I don't know, 10 minutes. So, they've all disappeared from their posts just because I am here. >> [snorts] >> To observe public employees in the course of their duties. >> They don't feel comfortable. Is there anybody at all that feels comfortable Anybody at all? >> The tense confrontation seemed destined to end when two female officers arrived on the scene, but their statements and handling of the situation only escalated the conflict to a new level. Soon, a series of controversial claims raised serious questions about where the line between law enforcement and bias truly lies. >> I just want to let you know we're recording. >> Hello. >> Is there a reason that you're recording us? [clears throat] >> Uh can you uh >> right up the line. >> Can you identify yourself, please? Your name and your badge number? You can verbalize it. >> You can't hear our voices? >> I I think I thought your policy says you have to verbalize your name and your badge number. >> to be recording and we want you to stop it. >> And why why can't I record in here? It's it's a which makes it public, right? >> Why are you recording only me? >> Because >> What do you need? >> What do I need? I have to explain to you what I need here. Well, I I have I have the right just to come in here and observe public officials doing your job, and that's another reason. I don't have to have a specific reason to be here. I can walk in here and record public uh employees during the course of their duties. That's been established by law. So, that's simply what I'm doing, and I also wanted to ask her ask her questions about the Post the 7, which is supposed to be on in every [music] post office. >> feel comfortable answering your questions. >> Okay, she doesn't have a choice. She's a public employee. Oh, well, she Oh, yeah, yeah, she Yeah, that's true. She has that that right not to, but I also have the right not to ask my questions. She can choose not to answer them, but I can ask [music] them. And as a public employee, she should answer questions if >> just said that she doesn't want to answer your questions. >> Okay, that's fine. Okay. [music] >> You can ask him to leave. They feel unsafe. >> You don't have safe unsafe why? Because I'm recording? >> They don't feel comfortable with you. >> Okay, but their their their comfort does not trump my right. I have a right to be here. Okay, their feelings do not trump my right to be here and record and observe public employees in the course of their duties. So, if you can explain to them that I have the right to be here as granted to me by the first amendment of the US Constitution. Okay, but they didn't even give me the opportunity to tell them what I needed. As soon as As soon as As soon as I walked in here, they were very aggressive. Get out of here without even asking me what I needed, what I wanted. And I asked her a question, where is a poster seven? That's supposed to be on the wall at every post office. It's It's It's supposed to be on the wall. And she couldn't even tell me that answer that simple question. She should know. She's the manager here. >> she doesn't know, sir. >> Okay. Okay, well, if she doesn't know, that's fine. >> She wasn't trained yet. Maybe [music] she doesn't know. Maybe she just doesn't know. >> Okay, well, I'm here to let you know you're supposed to have a poster seven on the wall. That's why I'm here. >> As the conversation shifted toward the core legal issues, the officers' initial confidence seemed to fade. Suddenly, they changed their approach entirely, creating an atmosphere that felt more awkward and unusual with every passing moment. >> People are saying >> that you're filming and >> Okay. >> They feel threatened by this. >> They feel threatened? >> threatened. >> How How do you feel threatened? By my camera? >> in here. You and your camera. >> Recording? >> Everything about you. Okay. >> Everything about me is threatening? >> I need you to She feels threatened, sir. >> Can you Can you explain that? >> No, she doesn't have to. She feels threatened. >> Well, well, well, well >> I feel threatened and I need to speak >> [music] >> Well, I'm telling you she have no authority >> to >> ask me to leave a public place. The only way I can >> [music] >> be The only way I can be trespassed from public is if I break the law. I haven't broken the law by simply standing here and exercising my rights. So, maybe what you should do is explain to her that she cannot tell me to leave here cuz I have the right to be in here for whatever reason. And now Wait. Can I finish? Can I finish? And now Let me finish. And now, one of the reasons I have to be here is I have to file a complaint against her. So, I need a complaint form. Cuz I'm going to file a complaint against you. [music] And then I need a I need a FOIA form so I can request your information. That's my business here now. So I I need you to take care of that. >> I'm asking you to leave because you are harassing me at this point and I feel threatened by you. You need to leave. >> All right. >> [clears throat] >> What you should be doing uh Wilson, that's your name? What you should be doing is telling her that I have the right to be here and do I do what I'm doing. Well, apparently you don't know. You apparently you don't know. So you're you're either willfully ignorant or you're just All right. I mean >> Sounds good to me. >> So what are we doing? Waiting for your sergeant? >> After a series of heated disputes and conflicting arguments, another figure suddenly stepped into the scene, completely changing the dynamic. And what was said next not only caught everyone present off guard, but also sent the entire incident in a completely different direction. >> I'm good. Are you the sergeant? >> Yeah, I'm Sergeant >> How are you? Good. What's your name? >> Sergeant Orpeza. >> Orpeza, what's your badge number? >> 1721. How's it going? >> Uh it's going great other than the fact that I was being asked to leave a public place where I have the right to be. >> Okay. >> Yeah, just because I'm recording and I had some questions for the employees and they wouldn't answer my question, which is fine. They don't have to speak with me. >> Right. >> But but they do not they don't have the right to tell me to leave a public place as long as I am not >> interfering >> interfering and I was just standing on the corner recording, which which is my right to do. They they don't like that. So they're asking me to leave and they don't have the authority to do that. So >> They could ask you to leave but you're right, your absolute >> Yeah, they can ask. >> The law allows you to record as long as you are not interfering with their duty. >> Not at all. >> And the public, you know, the public also has to feel safe >> Right, but Oh, come on, sergeant. You know better. They they they're feelings their feelings do not trump my rights. You know that. You're you're smiling about it, so you know. >> But, you know, they can call and let us swap >> Oh, yeah, they they can call and then and then I expect you as you seem you seem right now that that >> So, I will talk to them, let them know, but at the same time it's going to be explained to them, you know, once that order comes out that you can see you are you are allowed to record out here. I'm not going to tell you that you have to leave >> In there In there also. In there also. >> to say that they want to lock something for trespassing, that's a whole different agenda. We're trying to avoid all of that, all right? >> Right. Right. We're trying to We're trying to avoid them avoid I mean, keep them from trampling on my rights. That's the most important thing today I mean, to do here today. Cuz if they ask me to leave here, they don't have the authority. The only way I can be trespassed from public is is if I break the law. >> [music] >> The only thing that restricts members of the public from exercising their rights in public is is is a is a a court doctrine that's that's expresses or says, you know, it it it says a lot about >> We don't want >> what you can and cannot do. Right. Time, place, and manner. Time, which means as long as it's open for business. Place, which means as long as I'm not in a restricted area. And then manner, the way I conduct myself as as >> I'm not sure they understand that you are allowed >> Well, apparently they don't, ma'am. Every single one of them have asked me to leave. They don't understand that. And that's part of why we do this. I appreciate it. Thank you Thank you for being professional. Thanks. >> The incident came to an end with no handcuffs and no arrests. But perhaps the most important lesson was reserved for those entrusted with enforcing and upholding the law. Citizens can sue police under Section 1983 when their rights are violated. Officers who violate those rights may face compensation payoffs, disciplinary action, or even termination. When citizens' rights are respected and authority is exercised within its proper limits, that is the foundation for building trust between the public and those who serve it. Hey everyone, what do you think about this situation? If you enjoyed the video, don't forget to like, subscribe, and support us with a donation. Thank you so much. >> [music]