I got to figure out who you are. What's up? >> Why do you need to figure Well, how is figuring me out going to solve anything? What did I do wrong? You got to tell me what I did wrong to stop. >> Something else happens. >> It doesn't matter if something else happens. What matters is what you think happened. What What did you see? What did you observe? What did you hear? You got to give me reasonable articulable suspicion for this stop. >> the [ __ ] >> I'm not going to listen to him. >> Hey, you shut the [ __ ] up, tough guy. What are you swearing about the [ __ ] up? >> I saw it with my own two eyes as well. You kept pulling down your shirt. That right there is a sign that you're trying to hide something. >> Pulling down my shirt is a sign I'm trying Okay. >> Number two, hiding your face with your hoodie. >> This one starts with Butler officers stopping a man because they say he looked suspicious, was pulling at his shirt, and had his hood up. But the problem for police is simple. Once they told him he was not free to go, this stopped being a casual conversation and became a detention that required reasonable suspicion of a crime. That's why the civilian immediately keeps asking the right questions. What crime did I commit? And what exactly are you detaining me for? The officers never give a clean answer. Instead, they keep circling back to vague claims about him looking nervous, hiding his face, and making people uncomfortable. So, the real issue in this video is whether police can legally put someone in cuffs and force ID without being able to identify an actual crime. Watch how he keeps dragging the stop back to that one point the officers clearly don't want to answer. >> Hey, man. >> Yeah. I do, actually. >> [cough] >> You got another [clears throat] crazy on you today? >> No, no. You need to worry about This is not consensual. I don't consent to talking. >> is. We're going to be down there to keep an eye on you. >> Okay. >> They said they were making you nervous, that you were making them nervous. >> That's fine, but I wasn't. I was standing there, so it's not consensual. You guys have a good night. >> Hold on, you're not free to go. >> I am. >> No, you're not. >> I am. >> No, you're not. >> This is not a consensual stop. I don't consent. >> Well, you got anything on you, man? >> So, what type of a stop then? I'm detained? Am I free to go? >> Yeah, cuz people were saying >> Am I free to go? Sir. sir, am I free to go? >> No. >> I wasn't doing anything wrong. Why am I not free to go? So, I'm detained? >> Yes. >> What probable cause do you have that I committed a crime? >> There's people out there I got to figure out what the deal >> I've committed a crime, I'm about to commit a crime. Give me your res. Let's hear it, sir. Well, then if you don't know, you can't even stop me. I'd like to be on my way. Thank you. Have a good night. You guys, you know, it's fine. >> You what? >> I seen him earlier, it's fine. I'm not even drinking tonight. You guys have drunks walking the street, kids skateboarding. What are you worried about me for? Is it the hood? I just wanted to tune out and listen to music cuz I told this gentleman. I don't want to talk anymore. Yeah. >> You're free to go, dude. If you move any more inch >> Okay, so you want what? What's going to help you here? >> I got to figure out who you are first. >> Why do you need to figure Well, how is figuring me out going to solve anything? What did I do wrong? You got to tell me what I did wrong to stop. >> else happens >> It doesn't matter if something else happens. What matters is what you think happened. What What did you see? What did you observe? What did you hear? You got to give me reasonable articulable suspicion for this stop, or it's it's an illegal detainment. Yes, sir. Please. >> All right. People calling on you. >> That's fine. >> People calling you. >> Yes. >> Calling us on you. >> Okay. >> Okay. Saying that you're acting weird down there, you kept pulling out your shirt, acting like you're hiding something. >> acting weird. >> I was standing and watching you. >> think it's the last festival in town. I wanted to enjoy the music. It's It feels uncomfortable. Yes, sir. Go ahead. >> All right. >> You got me detained. >> Hiding your Hiding your face from everybody. All right. >> I'm sick, I think. I got a cold starting. No, you don't. What crime was committed? >> All right, go and put your hands on the wall. >> I'll No, wait a second. Under threat of a desk Under threat of arrest, I'll identify. Right now, I'll identify. So, don't put hands on me, I'll identify right now under threat of arrest. Okay, okay. I'm relaxed. Guys, you know me, I'm local. >> Who are you? >> There he is. There he is. Chulick, you know me. >> Yeah, I don't know you. >> You know, you do. >> And who are you? >> You know, you got me in cuffs. What are you What are you doing? Guys, this is an illegal detainment, illegal arrest. What is this? >> What's your it is. What are you doing? Guys, this is illegal. Shulick, I'll tell you. I I told I would ID before he even grabbed me. I said I'd ID. But it's okay. You don't need to know me. Well, you don't need to know me. It's in my Okay, stop. Stop. Stop. I don't consent to any searches or seizures of my person. Okay, I don't consent to any searches or seizures of my person. You took my recording device off me. So, now I can't record you gentlemen. Thank you. I hope you have that. It's in my back right pocket is my ID. And and I was going to give it to you anyway. That's That's I don't even consent to that. Uh it's no. It's in the folded money. There's a razor card in there whatever, you know, metal card. You guys know me, Shulick. Shulick. Jeremy Fluck. You know me. You've arrested me a bunch of times. But I'm not even drinking. Look at this. It's water. Check it. I'm not even drunk. What are you guys doing? But people [clears throat] say, you know, they they think I'm an uh you know, they want to bother me. I was listening to music and tune out. I was going to have sunglasses on. I was like Well, I got you. Okay. You got me in cuffs, guy, for no I don't consent to the search for no reason. He already explained his reason. We don't know if there was anything on you. Well, then you can't just detain me cuz you don't know. Go investigate and then You got me in cuffs. I could appreciate that sometimes, not right now. Not right now. So, now you got my ID and then the NCIC again, you know, so you give me another Shulick. You give me another hit, guy. Shulick, come on. How many times have you arrested me? It's been a while, right? Cuz of this Cuz of this, no more drinking. No more drinking, buddy. I'm a local guy. I'm a local guy. What are you guys doing? Who's over here? I need badge numbers and names, please. No, right now. Sarge, oh, you're running this night or something. You got it covered up. Nobody's IDing. Nobody's IDing. You're a lieutenant? Oh, way to go, man. I appreciate that. Well, who's above you down there? My cigarette's still burning. Make sure somebody don't get Can I pick that back up and can cuffs off? I did nothing wrong. And I'll leave the detainment right now. What are you running me for warrants? That's all you wanted, just to see if the guy with the hood who's sick and trying not to expose you all. By the way, Take these cuffs off. Yeah, there was no crime committed. Was there? What was the crime? >> Our job is to prevent crime from happening. >> Okay, but before it happens. So, I'm guilty until proven innocent. >> In this day and age, >> I'm guilty until proven innocent. So, so Leroy, what's your badge number, please? I understand what happens, but that's not me. So, go ahead. >> That's why we're here. >> What's your badge number, please? It's not preventing anything. 14 14, you look like your lieutenant. What's your badge number? >> 12 14 12. >> Uh same. Uh what about four back there? >> 14 25. >> 14 25. Who else is here? You're covered up, sir. 14 22, what's your name? What's your name? >> It's Kerlin. >> Aren't you aren't you required to ID? Isn't that Butler policy, lieutenant, for your officers to ID when a citizen asks them? Isn't that your policy? >> I just told you what his name was. >> What is it? He didn't tell me, so that's a little ignorant. Kerlin. Badge number, and you are Sergeant Neiderlander. You guys know me. Hey, bud, I'm I ain't doing nothing wrong here. >> Hey, relax. You're making this worse than it has to be. >> I'm captain. I didn't do anything. >> Hey, yeah, sorry. He didn't care about it. >> Why civil rights for nothing? I did nothing wrong. There was no crime. He couldn't articulate a crime. >> Yes, I did. >> What? What was the crime? Having a hood on is what you said. >> It's not necessarily a crime, but hear me out. >> Having a hood on. It's not necessarily a crime, but I'm in cuffs. >> You don't let me talk to >> Yes, sir, go ahead. I'm cool. I'm cool. I'll bring it down. You guys brought it down. I appreciate it. Lieutenant, you got him in check or something. He's in check himself. >> Here's the deal, okay? People come up to us and say that you're wearing that shirt. >> That's fine. Okay, I'm adjusting my clothing. >> Stop talking and let him listen. >> You can't do this no more. I'd like to be out of cuffs right now. >> for you're asking for an explanation, correct? >> Go ahead. >> Let Let Officer Solar explain it. >> I want to hear it. It better be good. >> People came up to us, and I saw it with my own two eyes as well. You kept pulling down your shirt. That right there is a sign that you're trying to hide something. >> Pulling down my shirt is a sign I'm trying Okay. >> Number two, you can't hide your face with your hoodie. >> Hiding my face. I'm sick. By the way, clean these cuffs. >> Every time that you saw Let make try to make eye contact with you, you tried to sit down or away. >> I My head was down the entire time. >> You stopped right here. >> My head was down the entire time. No, the band was over. And then I left. When the band ended, I left. Uh-huh. Leaving. Leaving. I understand. Yeah, and I appreciate that. But bad thing is not a hood and fixing a hood. Okay, so we're acting weird. That's not That's not weird. That's not weird, guy. It's not weird. You're wrong. Shulick knows it. Shulick There's no suspicious activity as a misdemeanor or felony, sir. Okay, so it's not a crime. It's not a crime. So, you can't put me in cuffs unless you have a crime. And you put me in. I know he already told me. I got that clear. I got that clear on recording. I got that clear, by the way. Thank you, sir. Keep recording. I'll be done soon. I need to talk to you. Yes, sir. Who's dangerous? Do I have a record here and they're they're horrible to me. Go ahead. You're illegally detained. Go ahead. Hey, you shut the [ __ ] up, tough guy. What are you swearing in public for? So, it was just fixing my shirt. Guy, I want to know for next time. Okay. The hood fixing my shirt. Is that my ID? It's water, but everyone's drinking anyway, so you can't get me for that. I don't drink anymore. Shulick, you know me when I was drinking, I was an [ __ ] I'm a nice guy now, man. I was I was minding my business. Thanks, guy. All right. Thank you. I got to get this. I'm going to actually put it in my mouth. It's still burning. That's all. Sir, may I talk to you when they leave and everything? You have a recording. I'd sure like to have it cuz uh just to make sure you save that. Um I have a recording as well, but I don't know what all it captured. Have it. You know, not captured. That's all the >> This stop falls apart because the officers never clearly establish a real crime before detaining him. Under the Fourth Amendment, once they told him he wasn't free to leave, they needed specific facts suggesting he had committed, was committing, or was about to commit a crime. But, their explanation boils down to a hood adjusting his shirt, avoiding eye contact, and making people nervous. That may have made them curious, but curiosity is not the legal standard for a detention, and it definitely doesn't sound like enough to justify putting him in handcuffs just to get his ID. The civilian did a good job forcing the officers back to the actual legal issue. He kept asking what crime supported the stop, whether it was a misdemeanor or felony, and what reasonable suspicion they had. That's what makes the officers look so bad here. They seem far more focused on figuring out who he is and checking his record than explaining what lawful basis they had to seize him in the first place. If they wanted to check on him, they could have tried a consensual conversation. But, once he wanted to leave, they needed more than you looked suspicious to stop him.