I mean if you guys are claiming that I'm a suspect then you know I I got a problem with you know with that we asked you for a DNA swap would you be willing to give us one maybe cuz now now now because now I'm thinking I probably need to talk to a lawyer this I mean we had a fight so I went and cops work hard to catch bad guys every day but what if the real criminal is wearing a badge right next to them I've got I've got to get to the bottom of an investigation a very serious criminal matter okay okay and right now you're a potential suspect in that do you realize that you're looking at some very very serious charges here here are several instances when cops realize their colleague is a secret signing with a case of William tally who tried to fool investigators by hurting himself during questioning can I ask what my charges are yeah right now you charge no don't do that no no noil take me back to jail uh all right on May the 11th 2019 a 911 call alerted authorities to a potential crime the caller's message hinted at a serious situation unfolding the caller explains that she had been on the phone with her neighbor William tally who informed her of a dispute he had with his girlfriend Kelly lavenson in the course of their altercation tally discharged his firearm in levenson's Direction took her vehicle without permission and departed the saint he was not sure if she was still alive so I hung up with her and called our 911 um called her back and she said then that he had a they were asking them to to leave so I don't know anything since then okay so nobody's here has been injured no that that's what I told him when I called he told me that he L okay but that's up in no oh this is her house this is her house he was living here with her okay and he's the one that told you that yeah okay and what's her name Kelly Kelly Kelly levenson was known for her compassion and dedication as a paramedic but beneath her caring exterior she harbored a secret that would ultimately lead to tragedy Kelly was in a relationship with William who was married Kelly's neighbors reported that the couple frequently had heated disputes the revelation of Kelly's secret relationship with a married man fits a common patent in domestic homicides where hidden relationships often contribute to escalating tensions the police approached the house with caution unsure of what they might find inside as they entered signs of a struggle became evident as they made their way into the kitchen they would find Kelly's Body lying on the floor the investigation took an unexpected turn when the identity of the suspect came to life William tally was not just any man he was one of their own a former police Sergeant for the Columbus Georgia Police Department The Thin Blue Line was about to be tested like never before and the police knew that catching one of their own would be difficult so they turned to those who knew William best hoping to gain insight into the man they once knew this is the purpose of this interview is just to talk to you about um um the a case that we're working on uh former Sergeant tally um I know you had had some type of relationship with him whether it was personal relationship whether it was a friendship or just as a coworker but we'll let you in answer those questions so um we'll just start with just some brief questions about your knowledge about um former Sergeant tally interviewing colleagues is a crucial step in building a psychological profile of the suspect especially in cases involving law enforcement but the perpetrator's training could complicate the investigation as the interview progressed a complex picture of William tally began to emerge his colleagues words revealed a man of contradiction they painted a picture of a man that they thought they knew but how well did they really know him the only lead that the police had was that he left the crime scene in Kelly's vehicle they knew he hadn't only received police training but SWAT as well so he would be difficult to find just as the search for Kelly's missing vehicle kicked into high gear fate threw investigators a curveball a shocking 911 call would bring the man hunt to a dramatic and unexpected conclusion William had been in a motor vehicle accident and that he was still inside his vehicle the suspect's involvement in a vehicle accident is a common occurrence in flight scenarios often due to the high stress and emotional state of the perpetrator the police used an armored truck to approach William and they found that he was still in a days from the crash William would be arrested without incident and sent to the hospital well you know me right brother we're taking no matter what right the remember brother we're going to take care of you now ankles once medical staff determined William was in stable condition authorities transferred him to an interrogation room the tables had turned for William tally once an interrogator he now found himself on the other side of the table his demeanor initially calm was about to change dramatically hey like some water you sure a cup coffee you sure well we got a bottle of water here just in case you need [Music] it are you going to be able to sit up for us little day back hurting you yeah everything we yeah do you know where you're at where you at apartment what's today you know may something may something who's the president TR you know how long you've been in the hospital days Days yeah all right well I'm here to tell you I'm not your judge man okay I am not your judge but we brought you over here hopefully we can get a better understanding of maybe what happened on Saturday Sunday and um hopefully we'll get your side of that and um you can kind of help shed some light on what happened out there okay and maybe maybe some of the events that might have led up to this all right uh but before we do that we going to obviously we got all your information uh written down here on on on a advice or rights form uh you got a Bachelor's degree right all right and um so we're going to advisure your rights and then uh we'll we'll kind of go from there okay you want to look are you able to see out of your which which eyes is the works are you able to see out of them I see double but I I'll probably be able to read okay I'm I'm bring this over here towards you I'll read it if you just want to kind of follow along I know you've seen this form the detectives off of water and check Tally's Comfort to build rapport and lower his defenses they claim they were not there to judge in order to create a non-judgmental atmosphere mentioning his education ensures he understands his rights however as his Miranda rights were read the gravity of the situation dawned on him he began to realize that his life was over his reaction to a simple question would reveal the turmoil within can I ask what my charges are yeah right now you're charged with you're charged with violation of all office and you're charged who with um who possession of a file and doing the commission of a crime who that's what we hoping you can tell us maybe once we start talking about it a little bit um it wasn't was it Kelly well this well that's what we want want you hoping you can tell us but before we get to any any of that part if feel like it if you able if you're able to and you can sign this nobody's talking with me about things well we're going to get to that that's what we're hoping to get to no I'm not talking until somebody talks to me okay well I can tell you who if we can get started there and it is Kelly no do that no William was pretending to lose his mind in order to later claim the defense of insanity but unfortunately for him and very fortunate for the detectives Williams actions earlier contradicted his present actions and were a strong indication that they were dealing with a perfectly sane man he had been on the run for a long time and made use of his training in law enforcement to evade capture had the crash not occurred the chances of catching him would have been at best slim or nearly impossible his emotional state continued to deteriorate as the interrogation progressed his actions spoke volumes about the internal struggle he was facing no no come tally [Music] no no no no no relax no no relax hey I don't want you to hurt yourself okay you got you got enough injuries on you man you got to heal up from all this okay I'm not going to talk you're not going to talk I'm not going to talk okay well that's your right let me get you the nasty Bill Bill no stop B relax Bill stop relax you're not here to judge man just stop just stop here you want some water I think you need to have a s of water relax [Music] stop it's all necessary do if you don't want to talk to us that's fine but let's not let's not do this okay in situations like this a suspect's self-harming behavior is a common stress response in high pressure interrogations often indicating deep psychological distress or an an attempt to appear mentally unstable as the interrogation reached its climax Tally's Behavior became increasingly erratic his words and actions painted aing picture of a man grappling with the consequences of his actions bill you don't want to talk to us are you aware that you have attorney represent you or not nobody's talk with me about okay well I mean if you want to ask some questions there's some we can answer bill but in the same aspect we'd like to talk to you if you want to talk and that you're right if you don't want to talk who else to H right now you're hurting yourself I don't care about me well H there's no one else I keep hearing what people whisper or Whispers you keep hearing whispers okay what what what Whispering do you hear no tell me tell me the truth okay there's no one else hurt okay everybody else is okay Bill let's not do this take it back to jail take it back to jail your back is Jail uh all right calm down we'll take you back okay hey look why don't you sit up and hold your head up so all that rest to your head okay sit up for AE there you go sit up for me man sit up you got all that blood rushing down to your head no better than that okay relax relax sit back time sit back okay get you back over there relax we'll me time whatever take me back okay we'll take you back we'll take you back but I need you to sit up so all that blood don't rush down to your heads holdable William refused to talk to the police but they already had more than enough evidence to charge him with taking Kelly's life William chose to plead guilty to murder and violating his oath he was sentenced to a minimum of 30 years in prison where at some point he will go before a parole board and they will decide his fate until then he remains in carcerated at the long State Prison in Georgia while William's case seemed to reach a clear conclusion Jessica and Matthew's story takes us down a far more complex path do you know anything about where her clothes or retainer might have been like I told her before the only thing that we might have had would have been in that white trailer and my stepdad has not mentioned anything else been in there we have evidence said that came out of your storage room on April the 15th 2016 Matthew Bon and Jessica leester began their day with a heated argument at a Walmart the tension between them was noticeable but no one could have predicted the events that would unfold after returning home the couple's dispute continued approximately 30 minutes later the quiet afternoon was shattered by the sound of gunshots a neighbor witnessed Matthew hurriedly leaving the house raising immediate suspicions when police arrived at the scene they made a chilling Discovery Jessica lay Motionless in a closet her head bearing what appeared to be G wounds the initial assessment suggested a possible suicide attempt but appearances can be deceiving as Jessica fought for her life in the hospital investigators uncovered a hidden divorce diary the contents of this journal would prove crucial in understanding the events leading up to that fateful day meanwhile Matthew's Behavior raised eyebrows his casual stop at a waffle house before calling 911 after receiving a text supposedly from Jessica indicating she was going to take her life seemed oddly disconnected from the gravity of the situation can you please dispatch a unit out in my uh location in reference uh to my wife um I left the location I'm I'm backing around I'm on Carver Road now I'll be back there in about 2 minutes uh she's having BS my kids are at home with her so I'm trying to hurry up and get back there I'm driving she just said that she's been experiencing BS right now she told me to take care of the boys so I'm trying to hurry up and get back home just to make sure that nothing's going to happen to them any weapons inside the house um just my service weapons as the investigation progressed doubts arose about the nature of Jessica's injuries what initially appeared to to be gun wounds were later suspected to be the result of blunt forc trauma this Revelation would dramatically change the course of the investigation the case took an unexpected turn when Jessica defied the odds and survived her recovery should have been a moment of justice but instead it spiraled into a web of cover-ups and inconsistencies in a shocking twist Matthew walked away free while Jessica the victim lost custody of her sons the story might have ended there but fate had one more card to play Matthew became involved with another woman who made a discover that would reignite the case a bag filled with Jessica's belongings the very items Matthew had sworn in a statement he no longer possessed this Revelation led to an intense interrogation that would expose the cracks in Matthew's carefully constructed lies Matthew appeared confident likely believing his status as a police officer would Shield him from scrutiny however this facade quickly crumbles under pointed questioning the detectives began by establishing Matthew's initial claim that he did not have any of Jessica's items this set up a critical contrast with later revelation Matthew confidently asserted his lack of possession unaware of the evidence the detectives held so Jessica came in she filed a report um okay I talked to you about it uh you wrote a statement and you didn't have any of her items um right the report specifically said her retainer and stuff like that her clothes okay um do you know anything about where her clothes or retainer might have been not like I told her before the only thing that we might have had would have been in that white trailer and my stepdad has not mention anything else been in there and and we gave everything back that we had cuz she had put some stuff in like a uh it's like a little foot chase thing open up got two little boxes I think we used to use it for like diap and stuff now but everything that she had that I knew of was gone I got rid of everything I knew of got rid of a house so get either give back to her or her family came back and got it you know like she had a big kitchen table and some other stuff that her Aunt Kathy and Uncle Tim come and got um just different I think my stepdad actually took a whole bunch of stuff over to her grandp par house at 2464 Milner in Pike which is like right by my parents house okay so when did you move to lumay Road uh that would be sometime in March March mhm oh through the course of that move did you find anything that belonged to her at that point no cuz if I would have I would have turned it over to her cuz I have no need to keep her stuff only thing I had at that point was that computer I me you talk about that and again back to her cuz she her talk the bird okay the interrogation took a significant turn when the detectives produced photographic evidence of Jessica's bag in Matthew's possession this moment marked a clear contradiction to Matthew's earlier statement Matthew's responses shifted as he was confronted with this evidence so do you recognize that bag yes a bag that just just let me used to put all my gym stuff in when we used to be together okay so when was the last time you saw that bag uh it's been a long time like I said when I used to work out it um there's two gems in Thomason I don't remember the name of it I used that one and I had a gray Nike bag I used to work out in um so I interchanged my stuff like protein drinks um powder shakes like pre-workout uh workout shorts pants shoes whatever I'd put it that bag or my likee bag so when's the last time you saw that bag I mean it's been a while i' been I don't know an exact date I don't know um I think my stepdad he he had it in the I think the white trailer and that that's been a while and he brought it but I haven't been through it or anything um he put it in my storage put it in my storage thing in my house which is like when you pull in the driveway it's a little storage thing on the right you open the door and it's SC on my stuff in there I declined some of it out recently that was tossed in there but I was in there with a bunch of my stuff like a brown tub I used to keep in my old patrol car with gy stuff in it work stuff would that be the utility room a carport room at your new house yeah that's where I keep like well I keep stuffing that I keep stuffing like what's considered all in the back of my house mhm I just to the rest of my J it's just old J bag all right Matthew look let me see let me see let see known you a long time yes sir this bag you saw it moving when you moved from your apartment to Lun Road I had didn't know and and and your stepdad and window window saw it and another female saw it all right okay at the house in the apartments yes or no when you move in the apartment when I when I moved like I said I had all my stuff in the white mat that's not that's not what I'm asking you when y'all were in the process of moving and you moved into the house that you're at now your residents did you or did you not see this bag yes sir was in my storage room in the in the garage all right now why would I be holding a picture of this bag I guess cuz Jessica brought it into you why would Jessica have it if you had it at your house um I don't know I guess somebody got it from my garage and my shed who would have got um there's a couple people all right exactly who Okay as the questioning intensified the detectives revealed more details about the contents of the bag including Jessica's retainer and numerous articles of clothing this information directly challenged Matthew's claims that he had been using the bag for gym purposes the mounting evidence against Matthew's initial story became increasingly Apparent at this point it was clear that detectives had more than enough to NAB him and were just stringing him along to get more details from him from his behavior it was clear that Matthew was becoming increasingly desperate but he still had to maintain his composure to avoid giving himself all away he too was a detective and these techniques were not new to him and inside that bag there were numerous contents inside of it and one of those is this right here you know what this is look like Jessica's old retainer thing she hav wear together right the bag was completely filled with female clothes and this is one photo of it that's not yours no not right no sir okay that's not yours no sir right yes sir okay who does that belong to this guy Jess name wants to be Jessica his thing if it was in that if it was in this right here where would that have been at had all her stuff in it what would it have been at it would have been in my garage thing I could sit in which is where which is at my house which is at your house yes sir did you buy that for Jessica I don't recall I don't think I did because she had I think her grandparents didn't because she had retainers before she met you right before yall got married right I believe so so that would make it whose property uh hers not yours right right yes sir whose bag is that uh Jessica's and the contents in the bag it's got all our stuff in it so why would you not have brought that to us when you noticed when you saw the bag at moving sge I promise I have not been through that bag the last time I used that bag I didn't ask you that Matthew listen to me bud I understand what you're saying it's just cuz I'm I should have brought it up here you know all things and I don't know anything about your other issue but all the things involved in reference to this case all the going around the statement that you wrote a pivotal moment occurred when the detectives confronted Matthew with his own written statement which contradicted the physical evidence that they had presented this ISS Matthew Boon January 9th 2017 I was advised to complete the statement on previous date by Lieutenant yansy Jessica Lester DB wion's property was already previously returned to her by my stepdad Charles McDaniel Jr shortly after Jessica got out of this Hospital uh the dining room table along with other items were picked up by Kathy zeler for Jessica the remaining items such as hope chess clothing other miscellaneous items return to Jessica I do not have any other items of Jessica's this is Matthew Bon is that your statement yes sir is that man you that's Jessica's bang Jessica's retainer you understand you didn't buy that I understand that does not make it community property I understand that makes it her property yes sir that you in possession of yes sir I understand as the reality of the situation became clear Matthew's demeanor changed from defensive to defeated as he realized the extent to the evidence against him we have evidence that says that came out of your storage room is that true yes sir is there anything you'd like to say no sir I said I was just done with my part do you believe do you believe that statement to be accurate and true not now did you believe it then that's right why would you say you didn't have the damn bag when you had it you know you can't give a sworn statement and lie on it that's AR why would you do that Matthew it was a Bag Man it wasn't it's not like it was talk to me man I mean it help me understand I sge I swear to I know was that was hard to believe I didn't think about that bag otherwise I wasn't the I wasn't I said hold on Little T I got something let me go get it I swear I wouldn't have done that cuz I've got two kids three in one you know the baby especially I took him in like he's my own I'm not set a good example right now always try to show my kids what it's right but you know when when you swear an O we swear that we're going to uphold the law yes sir regardless and you know you can't lie to you can't lie in an investigation you know that I don't know what I was thinking like I said if I was scared or what I don't know what was going to my mind then does that make it right no it doesn't I do that n know this is everything I've ever worked for like out the door I mean concern my kids man cuz I've got I've got primary custody over them and this is going to set me back if I get locked up for this I'm going to go down the Santa every other weekend and she's not going to take care of like she's supposed to like she's supposed to put them on her insurance I had to do that but Matthew if you did what you were supposed to do we would not be here this situation you think I want to be here no sir I would be rather be anywhere else than be here clear but if you had done what you were supposed to do we would not even have to be having a conversation you would have to worry about it yes sir but you know that we have to do we have to do the right thing we have to do what people p us to do you know that you know that especially with me and Lieutenant you known us a long time yeah I don't want to let lose the the primary custody of my kids like I know I mean no matter where I go now I'm not really going to get a good job now but let the main my car man life is not over with everything happens for a reason in the end Matthew Bon was eventually charged with two counts of false imprisonment and two counts of giving false statements in August 2017 Bon was acquitted of the false imprisonment charges but found guilty of making false statements he was sentenced to a short jail term and probation just when you thought a Cold Case couldn't get any colder the story of Stephanie Lazarus showed how the long arm of Justice can reach across decades I mean if you guys are claiming that I'm a suspect then you know I I got a problem with you know with that we asked you for a a DNA swap would you be willing to give us one maybe cuz now now now because now I'm thinking I probably need to talk to a lawyer this I mean we had a fight so I went and K her on June the 5th 2009 Stephanie Lazarus began her day as usual heading to the Los Angeles Police Department headquarters as a respected detective in the art theft unit with 26 years of service she had no reason to suspect that this day would be different from any other she had been asked to come in to assist with what she believed was an art theft case a routine requests given her expertise unbeknownst to Stephanie her colleagues had been secretly investigating her for months in connection with a cult case from 1986 the case that would change everything began on February the 24th 1986 when Sher rasmusen a 29-year-old nursing director was found in her van noise townhouse she had been beaten three times initially investigators believed it was a burglary gone wrong despite rm's husband John rutin mentioning that Stephanie his ex-girlfriend had threatened rasm in the past fast forward to the mid 2000s the LAPD in an effort to clear cold cases Revisited rm's and advances in DNA technology provided New Hope detectives re-examined the evidence including a bite mark on rm's arm DNA from the bite mark was tested and a shocking match was found it belonged to Stephanie a veteran detective with the LAPD Stephanie had a history with Ras mu's husband John rutin they had dated in college but John had moved on and married rasm Stephanie it turned out had been obsessed with Jon and her jealousy was a potential motive for them to obtain a DNA sample for comparison undercover officers had secretly collected a discarded straw Stephanie had used the DNA matched the sample from the crime scene providing the crucial evidence needed to proceed with questioning Stephanie as the detectives began probing into her past relationship with John ruton subtle inconsistencies in a recollection started to emerge her inability to recall specific time frames is a common deception tactic to avoid committing to details that might be contradicted later do you know John rutin John brutin John ruton ruton oh yeah I went to school with him you did yeah how long did you know him gosh I went to school in um let's see went to UCLA 1978 I started and um you know met him at school at the wors mhm um were you guys friends close friends yeah we're very close friends I mean I mean what's this all about well it's regarding it's a case we're working on it evolves John and in there some of the statements we we reviewed uh you know there's notes and stuff that that he knew you and stuff oh yeah I mean we good friends um lived in the dorms for I lived in the dorms for 2 years um you guys lived in the same dorm yeah okay yeah D okay were you guys just friends or anything anything else or yeah we were we were good friends yeah was there any relationship or anything that developed between you guys yeah I mean we dated uh uhhuh you know um I mean is what's this all about well it's relating to uh his wife okay okay did you know her not really I mean I knew that he got married years ago uh-huh did you ever meet her God I don't know um do you know who she was anything well I let me think God this been a long time ago um um I I may have met her um jeez you know yeah uh well let me see let me ask you you said you you dated John how long did you guys date The detective's Gentle proding revealed Stephanie's reluctance to discuss details of a relationship with John her vague responses and inability to recall specific time frames rais questions about what she might have been hiding her body language and speech patterns began to shift as she discussed the duration of her relationship with John her repeated use of filler words and phrases like um and you know indicated increasing anxiety and potential deception on would would you say you guys dated oh jeez um I couldn't even say I mean I started school there in 78 I started UC 1978 I graduated in 82 um I don't even remember what year he graduated if it was a year or two before me okay um I think he was a little bit older than I was I mean you know I can't remember if he was born let's say I born in 60 1960 I don't know if he was born in 58 or 59 I mean you know um I mean I knew his parents I knew his sister his brother went to Northridge um um you know Sister spent the night at my house before obviously I spent the night at his house before he probably spent the night at my house before um you know know I I you know I don't well correct me if I'm wrong cuz from what you're telling me is you guys dated while you were in college together right yeah and probably after college um I'm I can't geez um trying to think when I met my husband I met my husband in when did I meet Scott um let's see I was teaching D cuz I met Scott when I was teaching dare up in Oregon but we had long sto you know dating before that so you haven't talked to him for a long time oh I I think I haven't talked to him in a long time um I couldn't even tell you when the last time I talked to him um I met Scott I'm thinking in '92 maybe um April of '92 as the conversation progressed her attempts to downplay her connection to John became more apparent the contradictory statements about the nature and duration of their relationship suggested she might have been concealing the true extent of their involvement she attempted to downplay her connection to John by mentioning other relationships this diversionary tactic is often used by suspects to create distance from a person of interest in an investigation I I haven't been in contact with her in a long time um I mean you know what's what's I mean what's this all about I mean well let me ask you what ended the relationship between you and John you know I don't it was kind of a weird relationship I mean we we we dated um I can't say that he was my boyfriend I don't know that he would con considered me his girlfriend um we just we dated we did things I played Sports in college he played basketball his brother played basketball um we just you know it just didn't work out at one point um another friend of mine who's actually dying right now uh was went to Hawaii with us um at some point um remember roughly when that was oh jeez um h let me think H I'd have to check my pictures um or I'd say I'd ask Greg but my friend Greg is like dying of liver cancer right now um yeah I mean I you know and you were saying that um it's 2009 now had you ever met his wife I may have do you know do you remember her name or anything or um um or what she did for living or where she worked or anything about her well I think she I I'm going to say I think she was a nurse The Mention Of John's wife Sherry generated a notably evasive response from Stephanie her claimed lack of familiarity with Sherry contrasted sharply with her detailed Recollections of John's family hinting at a possible source of tension this selective memory is a red flag potentially indicating an attempt to dissociate herself from Sherry the people that were on the dorm floor we'd have we' have get togethers um there's probably like four or five I don't think he ever came um yeah I don't think no it was there was like it was mostly girls you know um girl named SM Diane um there's there's two Dian but the one Dian I don't think she ever came I kind of lost contact with her we were good friends on the floor um yeah I mean I don't you know again I I mean what you know I don't understand why you're talking about some guy dated a million years ago well do you know what happened to his wife yeah I know she got what did you what did you hear about that I I saw a poster at work um I'm sure I spoke to him about it um I think I spoke to another friend of his about it um and how did how did you first learn about that jeez someone could have called me I could heard it at work um I think at one point there may have been a flyer something I know a good friend of his um were you on the job back then when that happened yeah I think so yeah I'm sure I was on the job that's what I would have heard about it with the flyer um he had a good friend Mike Mike boldrick Mike um anyways a he may have lived in the dorms I don't remember if that's how I met him um I I may have talked to him I mean you know I don't remember how I heard I mean I don't even remember what year it was and you think you you thought you said you thought his wife was a nurse do you have any idea where she was working at the time or did he ever mention that to you was it a hospital or a doctor's office I'm sure you must have mentioned it now now that you're bringing that up I think she worked at a hospital somewhere and yeah I may have met her at a hospital um I may have talked to her once or twice um at at a hospital or more um you know but being that you were kind of used to see uh John you know was it everything okay between you guys I mean there was never anything uncomfortable or anything between you and her um you know I don't know I mean it's God it's been so many years I mean uncomfortable I mean I can't even I can't even remember if we had a conversation I mean we may have I may have I may have seen her at his apart you know gez how many years ago is that I don't even know what year she you know got where was his apartment on Rosco okay yeah Rosco and um um east or west of do uh either east or west of doodo do you know where he moved after did he move after he got married or do you know or I'm sure he did did you know where he was living or somewhere in the valley did you ever visit him and his wife no no never went out to you know get together dinners anything of that nature no no like I said his sister used to come over his sister had come to my place I knew I knew his brother cuz his brother played basketball at Northridge um in fact I was just coming across some pictures that I just scan uh scanned from um I take a lot of photos um like 10,000 and I just did a service where I scanned everything um and I'd seen some pictures of his brother playing BK you just put them all on your computer so you could have them accessible and do things with him well my partner is a big photo thing and he had a deal to scan so I spent a ton of time just scanning photos I mean I paid a company to do it mhm um so I've got photos of I mean his brother his sister you know 10,000 pictures oh yeah how long did that take them months Stephanie's recollection of how she learned about sher's passing was suspiciously they her inconsistent answers and attempts to change the subject raised the red flags about her potential involvement I can't even tell you the last time I had any contact with any of them it's been so long did he tell you what happened like what he heard from the detectives or the police or you know what he may have um for some reason I'm thinking that I mean again this is like or something I mean I think I faintly remember him mentioning something maybe about um that she was involved with that you know I don't know that he said she was involved or they thought she you know again it's been so long I you know he could have mentioned he could have told me the whole story of what happened and I mean like I said I'm faintly remember even between him or the flyer um that there was some kind of a burglary um you know let me ask you did the detectives ever reach out to you ever no no one's ever talked to me I don't think anybody ever talked to me about where was I working um 1986 I would have been working in deire you know I'm thinking that I did speak to somebody oh really I couldn't tell you who it was cuz it doesn't it doesn't say anything probably on the phone um would have been some in regards to this or just yeah uhhuh yeah um I don't even know if you said a name if I would remember it because I worked van eyes for a while yeah I worked um as the detectives pressed for more details about Stephanie's interactions with Sher her responses became increasingly defensive her inability to provide clear answers about alleged confrontation suggested she might have been hiding significant information the detectives were making good progress and things were already looking like that with a little more probing she was going they're saying you were having with with Sherry I mean it seems like the relationship is just going on even plain that just I I that I don't have the recollection of that at all no no and cuz from what you're telling me is when you guys met at the hospital uh I mean you guys talked but it wasn't from what you recall confrontational think so from either side no I I mean I'm trying to you know turn my memory back you know and I'm trying I can't even I can't even pick picture the you know picture the the conversation I mean I can't even picture the conversation well let me ask you I mean at the hospital it never got to a point where people are going hey hey you know go to everybody go to your own corer type of thing I don't think so nothing like that I don't think so I mean I really don't I mean if you you know if you say people said that that's not ringing a bell to me at all I mean it's not I mean that that's not ringing a bell I'm thinking that the hospital thing that sounds familiar that I I met her there I just can't say that I've ever again was I there with other people I don't I I I don't know um I don't think I ever met her there or him there um meaning one or the other I don't think so I I just I can't I don't think so cuz mean I know the way my wife is at our house she wouldn't want my own girlfriends there you know so I don't know if maybe she had the same mentality towards you if as far as you ever being there or being welcome there you know cuz it's you know what if somebody said I was there when they were there then that's TOS but I just I I don't recall I mean I don't think so I don't I it's not sounding familiar yeah cuz I guess basically what I'm asking is you know were you ever welcome to the house like you know hey oh come over yeah come on over having a barbecue you know a dinner party Christmas party whatever I don't know the interrogation took dramatic turn when the detectives began to hint at Stephanie being a suspect the sudden change from Cooperative to defensive is a common reaction when a suspect realizes that they may be cored you know as they processed everything uh they did the best they could at that time and they looked at a lot of a lot of people and different things in this case and you're right I mean if you guys are claiming that I'm a suspect then you know I I got a problem with you know with that okay okay so you know if you're if you're doing this as an interrogation you're saying hey I'm a suspect well now I got a problem with you know now you're accusing me of this is that what you're is that what you're saying we're trying to figure out what happened Stephanie well I'm I was you know I'm just saying you know do I need to get a lawyer if you're accusing me of you know you don't have to I mean you know you're here of your own free will I mean I know but you know you're not you're not under arrest you can walk out you can leave whenever you like well you know I'm trying to give you some background of you know how I knew him and now you're telling me that some somebody's saying that we had this big old fight and I don't even know what you're talking about um you know and I don't want to you know get in trouble for something that I didn't even do or you're saying I did something okay we understand I mean how would you guys like it if the tables were turned on you I understand no um no that's what we're telling you I mean you're free to go whenever you want if if this makes you uncomfortable and you want to well now you're starting to make me uncomfortable the thing is I mean detectives did what they could at that time time on the crime scene okay and the burglary thing you're talking about that is an angle that they looked at I go but now we're looking at everything else on the case cuz nobody was ever arrested on the case I I don't know that or not okay now what we'd like to do is obviously you know about all the DNA stuff and things of the nature that you know gets done on cases nowadays you know if we asked you for a DNA swab would you be willing to give us one maybe cuz now now now now because now I'm thinking I probably need to talk to a lawyer Stephanie's reaction to the mention of DNA evidence was particularly revealing her abrupt refusal and insistence on legal counsel strongly suggested she feared what such evidence might reveal this behavior is consistent with a guilty party realizing the gravity of this situation that's where we're at to I mean because right now from looking at the evidence it's you know it's possible we may have some DNA at the location that's great and we're going to do what we can to try to put this thing together and your name's in the book these people are pointing at you for whatever reason I don't know why that's just crazy I mean that's just that's absolutely crazy and it would be irresponsible on our part not to look at it I know you guys have to do your job and I guess I'm going to have to contact somebody so that's fair I mean cuz I know how this stuff works I mean I I I I I just can't believe it that's I mean we understand that I mean if we were in your position I mean we would feel the same way I just can't even believe it I mean it's just I mean I'm shocked I'm really shocked that somebody would be blame saying that I did this I mean we had a fight and so I went and her I mean come on that's okay all right well thanks for giving me the courage that we take Rec thanks for your time after the interrogation the detectives had enough to move forward Stephanie was arrested and charged with the of Sher RM on March the 2012 after several days of deliberation the jury found Stephanie Lazarus guilty of First Agreement she was sentenced to 27 years to life in prison with the possibility of parole as shocking as Stephanie's Fall From Grace was the case of Michael Neely takes us into an even darker realm where a night of drinking between colleagues spirals into a tragedy that shatters The Thin Blue Line did you uh advising what he was charged with no um Michael you be charg with second grade okay I had no idea what I was been charged with you are sitting on his chest his face is beaten and he tells you get off of him get off of him on November the 10th 2019 detective Michael Neely and chief lucky Miller from the Manford Police Department in Oklahoma arrived in peniscola Beach Florida they were there to attend a law enforcement conference and shared a room at the Hilton Hotel as the evening progressed the two officers were reportedly drinking and socializing what start Ed as a routine professional trip took a dark turn Hotel staff and guests reported hearing loud noises and a commotion from the officer's room when hotel security investigated they found Chief Miller unresponsive and severely injured detective Michael present in the room appeared disoriented and showed signs of intoxication Emergency Services were called to the scene hoping to save Chief Miller's life despite their efforts Chief Miller was pronounced at the scene as investigators assess the situation they noticed blood on detective Michael's hand hands and clothes this physical evidence combined with Michael's confused State and inability to explain what had happened LED investigators to suspect his involvement in Miller's passing Witnesses confirmed that only Michael and Miller had been in the room during the incident given the circumstances and evidence Michael was immediately detained at the scene and taken into custody by the Escambia County Sheriff's Office detective Michael now a suspect was placed in an interrogation room the tables had turned on the law enforcement officer as he now faced questioning about his relationship with Chief Miller his recollection of the events and any potential motives for the tragic incident that had unfolded in room 527 the interrogation began with detectives establishing Rapport a common technique to put the suspect at ease and encourage conversation they discussed flight details and arrival times in a casual manner how doing Mike hello investigator Martinez I think you've already met here my car I right before we begin you have your R here right yeah so tell me Mike you guys um flew out of Tulsa Oklahoma City Oklahoma City okay into Pensacola yeah was it a direct flight no where where'd you guys houon Houston is it a long l or just a short pretty short so from Houston to Pensacola yep what time did you guys get in uh I don't I don't even remember afternoon sometime uh did you guys get the Run car yes okay Enterprise or uh I think it was Enterprise okay all right and then from there um we uh got to the hotel and did you got to the hotel you guys make any stops anywhere nope as Michael recounted the events leading up to the incident his vague responses and claimed memory lapses indicated an attempt to avoid incriminating details he frequently claimed he didn't remember specific times or events any problems or anything going on that crowd just normal dinner or what normal MH any drinks there or just ding with couple beers and I guess from where Krabs is to the hotel just walked yeah it's not very far yeah it's just right there was it a early dinner late dinner what pretty early it was uh I don't think it was dark yet all right then tell me once what what you guys did once you got back to the hotel about it just bu football game in particular team or just football in general that was Dallas game starting Dallas and somebody I don't remember who all right do you remember um Hotel staff or hotel employee coming up and tell you guys keep it down I don't don't remember that so what is the last thing you remember as far as that evening until the football game Michael's surprising question about who had passed away revealed his attempts to gather information a tactic suspects often used to tailor their stories well I mean I know you're asking me questions but can I ask you a question absolutely okay homicide who who who who is yes sir trained detectives have ways of getting a suspect to talk without asking them questions about the case they employed these techniques to encourage Michael to speak freely I guess I I probably don't have any anything else to say then I've got nothing nothing to say to you despite initially invoking his rights Michael's curiosity led him to continue talking a common mistake that investigators exploit did you uh advise him when he was Charing no um Michael you being charge with second grade okay I had no idea what I was being charged with yeah you being charge with second grade your Vic be booked in scam County jail with no bond and we've already notified your uh your wife okay uh and um the victim I'm assuming yes and uh and uh We've notified Department okay and the task force head okay you have any questions for us I mean yeah I've got a thousand of them but I mean really doesn't make it well I mean sure it does I mean if you want to talk we'll sit here and listen to you talk I mean we'd love to know what the heck happened but I mean that's that's up to you I mean we'll answer your questions you know in return so I I would love to know what happened to uh you know well I mean do you want to continue to talk to us if you do then I mean we'll tell you what happened I mean I I I would love I I would like to I would like to know what happened uh you know cuz I'm I'm I'm telling you I don't uh I don't have any memory of of any of this and I you know uh I'm I'm shocked that I mean it's it's it's shocking you know tell you that uh maybe maybe could job but my memory I I I have no idea but I don't know do you want us to you want to continue talking to us yeah I mean I I I'll continue to talk I'd like to know what happened I mean what if you'll tell me what happened that that'd be great you know the detectives used a storytelling approach revealing details of the crime to probe Michael's reactions his continued claims of memory loss became less credible more information was presented well the first call came a little bit after 6 I believe um one of the guys that uh in the room next to you didn't say you guys were arguing just being loud just laughing yelling probably maintenance or security came up knocked in your door answered it guy said can you guys keep it down got noise complain he said fine we'll keep it down mhm Okay so so the next noise complaint came out about 9 minutes till 10:00 in the evening uh this one was from the other neighbor because the one beside you the first complainant um they moved his room cuz you guys were contined just to be loud nothing out of sords just being loud uh this time you can't get anybody to come to the door all he hears he's knocking he he is just grumbling grunting uses his car to get in walks in and you remember the room layout there's two queen beds is on the ground between the bed and the wall you are sitting on his chest his face is beaten and he tells you get off of him get off of him pulls you off of him you go on the bed roll off the bed fall on your face and that's where the nose and the lip get blessed and responsive Michael's lack of emotional response when told about the chief's death was noteworthy potentially indicating a disconnect from the gravity of the situation or an attempt to maintain composure is that what you're telling me he was found between the uh his bed and the wall his face was uh his right eye was pretty much swollen shot is any that jog your memory M no it doesn't did you have any kind of animosity or anything like that towards not at all no have you ever had uh a violent Outburst or anything like that before when you were drinking no anybody ever told you that you got violent when you drank no Michael's denial of any animosity towards a victim or history of violent Behavior while drinking might have been an attempt to distance himself from the crime yeah that's I can't believe it there there's a lot of people like said the commander down in your unit said you guys were arly brothers he you were too it's possible that Michael could very well be in shock which would explain his behavior a person suffering from shock will have an altered mental state their mind feels like it's in a fog which slows down their alertness and awareness there will also be in denial about their situation however he repeated expressions of disbelief rather than showing concern for the victim which could be a strategy to appear innocent he frequently used phrases like I can't believe it I cannot believe it do you have any questions for us M uh I it's just it's just unbelievable I just uh did you make any phone calls I mean call my wife but you know earlier in the night is it's uh man it's it's unbelievable I just I it's unbelievable unbelievable why why do you say that I I I got no problem I you know I I I can't I can't believe what you're telling me has happened I can't believe it h wow well this sucks for us just as much as it does for you I mean having to arrest a a fellow officer you know for something like this was is I cannot I can't believe it I cannot believe it huh and from what what I mean what's he what's he that bro as more details are revealed Michael's continued insistence on not remembering becomes less credible potentially indicating deception right now said we don't know until we have the autopsy right I mean cuz I mean I I mean I I'm feeling my hands I I mean my hands don't feel anything uh you know you know what she did from him I don't understand I know I mean it appears that he's been beat to death by all by all uh indicators that we have at this time that we you know that we can physically see it it gives the appearance that he's Beat to Death his head is very swollen like we said is uh right eyes completely shut and the uh as he laid there you know as as time was going on as we were getting the search Wars and everything together that we needed to do uh bruises were starting to show up even more h I mean you you can't think of anything that that would have triggered you to to jump on nothing nothing Michael began to offer selective memories possibly choosing which details to reveal while still maintaining overall ignorance of the incident he recalled the chief wanting to go out but doesn't remember getting upset about it we went not to eat was the game playing when y'all left to go out to eat no no we came back it was a dollar game I don't even know what time it started you kep want to go out you kep want to go out I just kep telling him I don't want to go out you know it's a bad idea we shouldn't go out where where was he want to go the bar uh I don't know no where specific you know did he keep on about it and you got upset about that well he he kept on about it but I you know I don't remember getting upset about it you know he just yeah he kept on about it it's like it seemed later than it was you know it seemed seemed late yeah it's time change man it messes everything up it gets darker a whole lot quicker and it does it seems later than it is yep and uh you know he kept want to go out let's go to the bar we need to go to the bar I said that's a bad idea we shouldn't you know let's not do that I don't I mean I wasn't pissed off at him for God's sakes at this point his recollection of specific details about drinking vodka contrasted with his claimed memory loss about other events raising questions about the truthfulness of his earlier statements now remember you said that he got the bottle vodka were you guys both drinking vodka or just yeah I I drank I drank vodka with him yeah cuz that way it would be something the the Em's office will lean to know especially when we do the toxology I don't I um I I can't I'm it's unbelievable I just cannot believe I can't can't believe it after the interrogation Michael Neely was charged with second degree and subjected to a jury trial ultimately Michael was sentenced to life in prison for taking the life of police chief lucky Miller from one Fallen officer to another the case of Grant Harden takes an even more Sinister turn I can tell you that much and if it was an accident it was an accident and that's all it was but if you intentionally went out to hurt somebody that's a whole another story March the 23rd 2017 began as a regular Thursday in Johnson County Arkansas but quickly turned dark for for police chief Grant Harden was spotted on County Road 1700 seemingly offering assistance to a passing motorist the quiet Rural Road gave no hint of the about to unfold in a shocking instant the scene erupted into chaos Harden allegedly drew a firearm and the driver James Appleton and what appeared to be a premeditated act as investigators began to piece together the events a dising picture emerged surveillance footage revealed Harden's vehicle lurking near the crime scene ballistic tests would later confirm that chilling connection the bullets matched Harden's registered firearm the Arkansas State Police moved swiftly closing in on their suspect when they finally apprehended Harden the former police chief found himself on the other side of the law instead of upholding justice as he once did Harden now faced intense questioning about a crime that had completely shattered trust in local law enforcement the season detectives knew that they needed to tread carefully with someone familiar with interrogation tactics they started with casual conversation attempting to put Harden at ease however his behavior hinted at underlying tension the investigators recognizing Harden's law enforcement background attempted to appeal to his professional understanding of the process however Harden's unexpected insistence on remaining silent caught them off guard and shifted the tone of the interrogation I don't know I don't even know what to to say at this point you realize that I'm trying to help you out here I'm trying to get you out of here quicker and you're just sitting here well am I free to go then no you're not free to go why because I've got I've got to get to the bottom of an investigation a very serious criminal matter okay okay and right now you're a potential suspect in that does that make sense I I don't understand why I'm a suspect well that's for me to know and for you to tell me why you're not a suspect this is your time to C help us help you figure tell me this I do apologize on the no no no I'm not I'm not mad at you going to exercise my right to be silent okay so is just tell me this I know you're a police officer before right you're you're a police officer in in gravit I mean not gravit but in Gateway it's an easy yes or no I'm being silent well I can see that where do you live at when questioned about simple details like his past job his reluctance to answer despite his law enforcement background hinted that he was trying to avoid the direct confrontation of the evidence research shows that people who are not being truthful often avoid direct answers and use silence to dodge tough questions in 18 tactical shift the investigators attempted to reconstruct Harden's day hoping to find inconsistencies or gaps in his timeline his vague and evasive responses to questions about seemingly mundane activities suggested possible attempts to distance himself from the crime did you sleep in today yeah I bet you did you could have go to work tonight huh yeah yeah what time did you get up oh boy I don't even I don't even know probably round new round n that's usually what time I got up too I'd sleep in as long as I could round did you get anything done today no oh no did you watch anything good on TV usually that's what I do i' eat and watch TV I woke myself up a little bit anything good same old stuff oh yeah TV you watch the same episode for like do you have a specific TV show you would wake up and watch when we watch the feeling my wife always has it on a I can't remember what channel it's called right now TV Land oh okay what what shows play on that like Andy Griffith and stuff like that yeah yeah I think they've been playing a lot of mash oh okay so I'm not too crazy about that but on it's a little before before my time I haven't really watched any of that I don't I couldn't even tell you what it was about yeah it's a Korean oh yeah doctors and and have a like a field hospital at the Korean War oh okay stuff all right it's really just kind of Comedy oh okay not too bad is your wife like that oh yeah I think she'd better watch other stuff but yeah well I guess that gets her by until something better comes on right yeah so do you watch that today was that on today mhm yeah any any movies anything good anything else let's see they had uh people trying to avoid tough questions often engage in IR relevant small talk or focus on trivial details to avoid providing direct answers the detailed recounting of his TV watching habits when asked about his activity suggested he might have been using these as distractions to avoid discussing more important aspects of the case the detective sensing Harden's growing discomfort pressed harder on the details of his day his inconsistent responses about activities like feeding chickens and laying grass seed raised further questions about his truthfulness so you feed your chickens and start laying the seed down on the grass well let's see I don't yeah I think just right after that I had that bag sitting up there and I thought well I better get that out there might as well and it's enjoy this day well thought if it's going to be like this maybe it'll grow cuz yeah I and maybe I mean we're supposed to get rain this weekend so so really yeah yeah it's supposed to be nice somebody said it's supposed to be nice yeah it's supposed to be nice I think um well today is pretty and I think Friday is supposed to be pretty Saturday I think it's going to go to like the 60s and then um Saturday night I want to say there's probably like a chance of rain like 40% or something somebody said it's supposed to get down to 25° Saturday I'm not ready for that morning I'm not either I'll be getting sick I'm already working on that so I'm not ready for that well so what do you do after you got your chickens fed and all your seed laid down I just went back in the house oh yeah did you do anything when you went inside played on the computer oh yeah probably sometime in there anything good any games no just a stupid game I played uh what's it called call of War Call of War Call of War what kind of game is that it's just a oh it's not even a it's not a game like this it's just a and that has like a oh you'll be say you're England or something like that you know and then you got to build up your country keep somebody else from Attack oh that's Co sounds no sounds better than the like it is free okay is it one of those you have to like sign in and keep track of that kind of thing yeah I mean let it's a good way to pass time I'm sure yeah I mean when when that's basically it yeah absolutely his extensive talk about his day in computer game could be a way to deflect from more critical questions and to fill the silence which is a common tactic in High Press situations his continued evasiveness and insistence on remaining silent even when presented with the opportunity to explain his side of the story painted a damning picture I haven't had steak in a while though like good steak you can't really find that anywhere around here anymore so did you drive tonight or did your daughter Drive I know she mentioned that she just got her driver's license oh yeah have we got her a car yet no no has she been begging for one it not really uh she wants a truck I don't know hey that girl doing something right she wants a truck that's better than a car right truck's probably safer what I don't know you don't think so well I guess it depends on what contraction is so what happened when y'all were on your way home t y just ran into the Rope block MH yeah wasn't I wasn't there when that part happened they just what they do when you guys ran into well the guy stopped us say and then I wanted just go down to drum Traer Park Road and I said well I live two houses down here on the right he said let me ask the boss about that he went to radio for a while or something and said what's your name I said Grant Harden and he said can you step out of the car and and then he put me in handcuffs and put me in the back of that one car Harden's lengthy explanation about his daughter's car and experience with the roadblock might have been his way of sidest stepping more direct questions about his involvement in the incident detective cero shifted tactics attempting to build rapport and appeal to hardened sense of Judy and family she emphasized her desire to understand his perspective for me like I'd rather hear your side of the story versus anything else to me everybody deserves that right especially you're good you're a good guy you're a good person so I don't know I feel like everybody should have that chance to their side especially if something bad happened I would want somebody to give me that chance I just want to know what got you to this point I mean I worked with you so like you helped me you know had my back in a in a situation so it would be nice to understand from you from your Viewpoint why you be hear what happened or did you see something happened or or you put in a situation and kind of walk me through it but that's your choice right everybody has a choice you have to be the one willing to put it out there I don't know feel like you've done this profession long enough you know how things go you're a good guy you're not a drug dealer not a child Blaser you're not you know anything like what you've dealt with what I've dealt with but I think today you could have you dealt with a bad situation I just want to know what happened sure a lot of people are going to want to know you know what answers especially your family I would I do I want to help you that's the bad part I want to help you and figure it out all I can do is sit here and say that I'll listen work it out with you figure it out together but you have to be willing to talk to me about it I'm a pretty real person I know pretty straight forward I just I know it's uncomfortable I know it's uncomfortable and no Wrecking sitting in a room by yourself with people that you've worked with in the past knowing the situation but like I said I wasn't there you're the only one who can kind of fill in the blanks at this point when people are unwilling to share important information they often focus on personal reassurances and generalities as Harden did rather than addressing specific questions about the incident this can be a way to deflect from the key issues at hand despite cord's efforts to create a more comfortable atmosphere Harden remained guarded his responses revealed a calculated approach to the interrogation hinting at a deeper understanding of the legal process than the average suspect you don't have to talk to me but I'm willing to listen I know you don't we all make mistakes we all get it put in positions we're all human we all react a certain way we all have emotions sometimes we overreact sometimes we're put in situations we don't want to be put in mhm like I'd rather you know have met you again outside having coffee instead of seeing you you for the second time in here but I don't know I think you just made a mistake today or somebody made a mistake today and I think you know what happened I just want you to help me understand it cuz I really do I want to understand what happened I think you know what I'm talking about and I think you know that some things are going to come out and I want to be able to stand on your side and say hey this is what happened and he was up front he was honest and he explained it and he cooperated does he need a law who the GU are you talking about me I think honestly I think you're the only one who can make that call but I think you're an honest man I think you've been an honest man I think that's good I'm not just going to be quiet you be quiet I'll keep talking no I'm serious though I think you're an honest man I think you've done a lot of good in your life the detectives then appealed to Harden's emotions and sense of morality emphasizing his good character and family relationships this tactic often used to elicit confessions seemed to have some impact on Harden's demeanor though he still refrains from providing any substantive information all you've done is spent your life helping others just like I have now you've had something happen and you're trying to figure it out but how are you supposed to figure it out on your own like why not let me help you figure it out help me understand what happened today so I can help you before everything else comes out so there's an explanation instead of it just looking bad cuz I don't want you to be betrayed like this monster if you made a mistake you made a mistake you're no different than anybody else everybody's humor trust me I've made plenty of mistakes in my life but I think you have a lot to live for beautiful family who I've had the privilege of talking to who they love you love them very much and they love you your daughter looks a lot like you she's she's a lot prettier she is very pretty she is very pretty very pretty but the way I look at it is you're a man man men face their mistakes and they own up to them mhm and they figure out what happened and figure out how to solve it and move on I mean I think you know just as well as I do people who can admit they've done something wrong or witnessed something wrong it's kind of like a weight lifted off their chest you automatically feel better or at least in my experience I feel better I'm listening I'm just no I understand as the tension in the room grew Cordo directly confronted Harden about making a mistake attempting to offer him an opportunity to explain his actions he's continued silence in the face of these direct questions spoke volumes do you make a mistake today you don't have to verbally answer if you don't want to would you want your daughter to admit if she made a mistake mhm cuz you're a good man and that's how you raised your daughter my dad would expect me to do the same thing cuz he was raised the same way and I honestly want to be there help your daughter understand after you help me understand I honestly feel like you want to talk to me can I explain it how long we going to be here I don't know hopefully not very long time I'm get it are you guys going to arrest me for something I don't know H to the oh it's something happened today how long can you detain me well it's an ongoing investigation in a crucial moment Harden finally broke his silence to ask about his potential arrest this question coming after hours of interrogation suggested a growing concern about the severity of the situation the detective's vague response about an ongoing investigation maintained the pressure on Harden as the interrogation reached its final stages Harden's resolve began to waver his request for a lawyer marked a significant Turning Point indicating his recognition of the gravity of the situation do you want to talk to me can I get a lawyer yeah I don't feel like I need to it's up to you but you obviously something's going on and I need one it's up to you I just want to hear your side but I want to get a lawyer following the interrogation Grant Harden's case took a darker turn as further investigations uncovered his involvement in a 1997 case in February 2019 Harden pleaded guilty to two counts of linked to the mistreatment of an elementary school teacher the DNA evidence from the 1997 crime scene connected Harden to the revealing his criminal activities that spanned decades he was sentenced to 25 years for each count of adding 50 years to the original 30-year sentence for the of James Appleton