Well, yeah. No, your your real ID. Yeah, this is. No. Here you go. What's wrong, sir? I got the ID. Here you go. I'm going to need to see your ID, sir. It's been reported stolen. It's been entered as stolen. So, right now you are in possession of a stolen motor vehicle. >> Okay. Can I show you the bill of sale from where I bought it? >> I'm going to ask you to leave. For what crime? I did nothing wrong. I literally just got a passport and you're over here harassing me. >> I'm not harassing you. >> Yes, you are. Hey, did you already go upstairs? Leave. Leave. You got to leave. In each case, the tone shifts fast, the confidence fades, and the same officers who were giving orders suddenly have to explain themselves. Let's take a look at what happens when higher authority steps in. On March 8th, 2023, a well-known First Amendment auditor went to the Buchanan County Courthouse. The courthouse is a public building open to citizens. He was walking around the building and recording as he explored different areas. While he was inside, Sergeant Chris Chessmore approached him and began asking questions. The sergeant asked where he had come from and then requested identification. The auditor said he had ID, but did not immediately provide it in a serious way. For services. Is there something I can help you with, sir? Yeah, if you want to explain to me like the passport, like uh how I would go about getting a passport. >> [music] >> I can give you a form. Where did you just come from? Huh? >> Where did you just come from? Uh no, I think I came from downstairs. >> Do you have an ID, sir? Uh yeah, I do. Can I see that, please? Oh, certainly. I don't know if I can freaking find it, maybe. Where you from? No, I was thinking about moving here. Well, yeah. No, your your real ID. Yeah, this is. No. I'm Billy Buttkrack. Your real ID. Oh, you need the real one? >> Yeah. Uh son of a gun. Here you go. What's wrong, sir? I got some ID right here. The D. They want you 10-2, come over here. What's that? I got the ID. Here you go. Driver's license. Oh. Here you go. I'm going to need to see your ID, sir. Sorry. Time to go. Let's go. The auditor asked what law he had broken and why he was being ordered out. He said he was in a public building and had the right to be there. The officer insisted that he leave and the situation escalated verbally. >> You need to leave. Excuse me? Don't touch me. I didn't touch you. You need to >> Yeah, you just did. You just bought me. >> to leave. For what? What did I do wrong? >> You were told to leave by me. For what? What crime? Let's go. What crime did I do? I'm here to get papers. >> Can you say that? Uh no, you can look right here. >> Excuse me? >> Didn't you already get your papers? >> I think you need to slow your roll right now. Slow [snorts] my roll? >> Yeah. You know you work for me? >> here. Come on down here. For what? Come on down. I committed no crime. Come on. I'm here to look at papers, get papers, see what services you provide. >> right now. Well, you can tell all day, but I follow the law. Come on. I follow the law. I'm going to continue getting my paperwork. You're the deputy. You're the deputy. Come on. What did I do wrong? You guys can't This ain't Russia. You can't just make up rules yourself. I did nothing wrong. He's on a power trip. I did nothing wrong. I'm here to get papers. As the exchange continued, the tension only grew. The auditor stood his ground and kept saying he had not broken any law. The disagreement shifted into a debate over what the First Amendment protects and whether the auditor was required to identify himself. He argued that recording in a public building is protected under the First Amendment, which covers freedom of speech and freedom of the press. Sergeant Chessmore questioned whether he was actually part of the press and asked if he had a press pass. The auditor responded that the Constitution does not require a press pass to exercise press rights. Come on down here. You're not going to leave. You're not going to leave. What was your name and badge? >> Chessmore. Buchanan County. >> Can you not give me your name and badge? >> Because you're a public servant. Didn't you forget? >> It does. Did you forget? You work for me. No. You work for the people. >> live in Buchanan County? It's none of your business. Yeah, that's what I thought. Why are you being this way? Why are you, tyrant? What's so funny, little boy? I don't know. Why can't you just respect our rights? What's the First Amendment? Do you know? Didn't think so. It's a shame that you guys swore an oath to uphold the Constitution, yet you don't even know the First Amendment. Do you like the Broncos? No, I like freedom is what I like. Apparently, you guys don't. >> You're still free, aren't you? Uh not by you. You want to be a little tyrant. Hey, get out get out of the public building. >> I haven't. Hey, hey, you went up Yeah, cuz you're not going to and if you do, guess what? We'll have fun in court. I like your camera. We'll have fun in court. >> Come on down here. Guess what? Have you violated someone's rights? Of course, you have. But guess what? You ain't going to violate mine without repercussions. >> your camera. Handsome. I like your facial hair. Thanks. It looks actually kind of kind of good. Thanks. I appreciate it. Yeah. You should probably grow some, too. Mhm. Not enough testosterone? Too much. Oh, okay. Hey, how about I have a task for you. No. The Bill of Rights, go read the First Amendment cuz you don't know what it is, pal. What do you mean? What do you mean? What am I doing right now? >> didn't answer. >> Yeah, cuz you're a public servant. Guess what? You don't even know the Fourth Amendment. That's how sad you are. Go read it. His point was simple. Unless he was suspected of a crime, he did not have to provide identification. The sergeant continued focusing on the fact that the auditor would not give his name. Are you really that low IQ? This is America. The press pass is in the Bill of Rights in the Constitution. Oh, you didn't know that, huh? No, you're educating me. I know that's bad if I know your job way more than you. 100% >> Imagine Imagine swearing an oath to the Constitution that you don't know. Can you educate me? Yes. What's the First Amendment? What five protections are in the First Amendment? >> going to answer my questions. >> I don't have to. I don't >> have to. You work for me. Don't forget that. Okay. And maybe when you want to try violating someone's rights, you might want to read the First Amendment and the Fourth Amendment. >> talking about these amendments, but you haven't told You're not educating >> Yeah, are you really that clueless that I have to do your job for you? You swore an oath to the Constitution, yet you can't even recite the First Amendment. That's pathetic and you got stripes. Okay. >> That's bad. You're poorly educated. >> you to leave. For what crime? I did nothing wrong. I literally just got a passport and you're over here harassing me. For what? I'm not harassing you. >> Yes, you are. Hey, did you already go upstairs? Leave. Leave. You got to leave. Did you go up? >> No. I already told you that when you first asked. >> Okay. So, stop harassing me. Go read the Constitution, pal. Yeah, I look like that, too, cuz you're looking like a fool. It's bad. You got all these stripes, all these time in service on your arm, but yet you don't even know the Constitution, the oath you swore to uphold and protect. You work for we the people. Don't you dare forget that. Don't you dare forget that. You do work for me. You do work for me. How dare you dishonor all those that have fought and died for these freedoms? How dare you? The situation changed when a captain arrived. He asked what the auditor was doing. The auditor explained. The captain clarified that the auditor was allowed to be in public areas of the courthouse as long as he did not enter restricted sections or disrupt people conducting business. Once that was stated, the confrontation cooled down. Oh, do you want want to know what happened when I came in here? Guess what? I'm being so polite to everybody. I go in here, go in the clerks, I ask them, "Hey, what what services do you guys provide here?" And you know what? I got I got a passport information right here cuz this is what I'm looking for. I'm here to go in all these offices and this guy right here, he should not have stripes for one. That's disgusting how you treat the public. Two, he's yelling at me. Hold on. Hold on, little man. Number two, I'm in here to check out the public building. Public. Don't forget that. And he's over here harassing me. Hey, you already went up there. No, you got to leave. Get out of here. No, I don't have to leave. >> that's demeaning your ass. Demeaning you? >> Yes. Really? What's the First Amendment? What a shame. What a shame. >> to answer your questions. Because you're a public servant. Did you forget? Guess what? You This job right here is a lot. You The public expects you to do your job correctly. That oath that you swore actually means something. You know how many men fought and died for these freedoms that we have? And you're over here trying to give me a hard time for what? Why are you giving me a hard time? Because you work for me. I did nothing wrong to you. What have I done to you? What have I done to you? You're not giving us your name. I don't have to. What's the Fourth Amendment, buddy? Is this your first day on the job? I mean, come on. You got to be better than this. It's I mean, Captain, is this what you Do you accept this behavior? What do you need? Well, I'm going to go I'm I've just got here. I'm going to each one of these buildings, asking what services they provide. I'm getting certain things like I just got a passport info cuz I'm going to fill it out and get a passport. And I'm here checking out the building then I get harassed by this deputy. It's disgusting his behavior. Won't check out the building. Exactly. Why couldn't we do that in the first place? So you have no problem? >> No. Exactly. Do you have a problem now? The captain did not insist on identification and did not order the auditor to leave. With that clarification, the auditor continued on his way. It Yeah, and he says it's fine because maybe, you know, he appreciates the Constitution. He at least at at minimum he understands it. >> interrupt or go back into any place that you're not allowed. >> Exactly, and I don't. Exactly, and I don't. That's all I ask. Yeah, that's fine with me. >> Certain parts of the building are not limited. >> Yeah, it'll say restricted or certain signs. You know, anything that's open to the public if you want to go in and Exactly. Go ahead and do it. Okay. >> That would be my recommendation. Don't stand around and argue with us on it. Just go ahead and just I mean, it Well, it shouldn't be them arguing with me. That's the thing. Either way. Okay. Just go in and Well, there we go. There At least the captain knows, sergeant. You might have to take some lessons up. Go home maybe just check out the Bill of Rights cuz you don't know it. >> Thank you for your advice. Yeah, no problem. And thank me for my service, too, cuz your service is not good. Okay. Well, just Bad boy. >> understand there's certain areas you can go. >> Oh, I Yeah, I'm I'm well aware. You can certainly go into wherever the public is as long as you're not disrupting Yeah, exactly. >> And I don't. >> that are coming in and out need to do business here, okay? Yep. No worries. All right. There you go. Thanks, captain. Hey, sergeant, maybe you'll learn one day. Thank you. No problem. It's all right. Maybe you will, too, young man. You got to learn that your job is to uphold our rights, not to act however you want. Have a good day. Walk of shame, gentlemen. Walk of shame. In the end, it was a reminder that public buildings are open to citizens and authority must still operate within constitutional limits. Let's move to another case where power and accountability collided again. On January 14th, 2021, officers from the Fuquay-Varina Police Department approached 14-year-old Malcolm Ziegler. He was riding a dirt bike that had been entered into the system as stolen. Malcolm immediately told them he had bought the bike legally. Okay. What's your name? Malcolm? Yes. What's your last name, Malcolm? >> Ziegler. Okay. You got your ID on you? No, I do not. Okay. But that wasn't us riding. We haven't rode at all this week. Where Where do y'all Where do you stay? You stay here? Yeah. Okay. Okay. >> rode at all today. He could have just came by here. Who's that guy? Who's that guy running down the street? That's his friend. He stay somewhere up there. Okay. Do me a favor, man. Go and put your hands behind your back for me, okay? Yep. What I do? You're in possession of a stolen motor vehicle. What? What? Do you want to go and verify that for me? What? Do me a favor, man. Just um come to my car right over here, okay? >> What the Can I get the bill of sale and show you that I bought it? Yeah, yeah. We'll We'll get all that taken care of, man. But what I What I need you to do is just hang tight for me right here, okay? Gosh, what did I do? Just hang tight for me right here, okay? So So here Here's what's going on, okay? So that vehicle That vehicle's been entered as stolen. What What stolen? >> The The dirt bike right over there. The Suzuki. Uh-huh. So I know you've been trying to sell it on Facebook Marketplace. Yes, sir. Okay. >> [snorts] >> Um it's been reported stolen. It's been entered as stolen. So right now you are in possession of a stolen motor vehicle. Well, can I see you the bill of sale from where I bought it? Absolutely. You can definitely show me that. I mean, I did not steal it. I can show you. Where Where's the bill of sale at? I I think it's in my house somewhere. They searched him, took his phone, and told him he was being detained because he was in possession of a stolen vehicle. Malcolm kept repeating that he did not steal it and that he could prove he bought it. Okay. So here's what's going to go and happen. Just hang tight for me. Matter of fact, do me a favor, 57 Fuquay, two males, 10-95. So I have to go to the police station? Yeah, yeah. Just Just hang tight. Hang tight. Go do this real quick. I got to search you, okay? All right. This phone Your phone right there. I'm just going to set it right here, okay, sir? All right. And then there's keys in this Yes, sir. How old are you? 14. Okay. You said 14? Yes. Okay. These are my AirPods. Yeah. You can take my AirPods. You got to get a little something in there. All right, do me a favor, separate your feet for me. Go and look at me real quick. Open your mouth up, sir. Tongue up and down. I appreciate it. And then I want you to do that one more time for me. What's going on, officer? You guys good? I'm in. There's someone in there. Yeah, they're in the house. Kick You ring the doorbell and tell my dad to get that bill of sale. It's somewhere in the house. We're We're We're about to take care of that, sir. We're going to take care of that. Appreciate it. Sir, can you can you open your mouth? Tongue up and down. Appreciate it. All right. And let me check you real quick right here. Um I I can get the exact date for it. I'll get that for you in a second, okay, sir? And sir, um do me one second. Squat down slightly, okay? I'm going to do this real quick, okay? All right. So what I'm going to have you do is I'm just going to have you take a seat right here. Okay, I'm going to open the back of the I got to get the police car. Just take a seat for me right now, sir. Um We're not leaving going anywhere yet. I just want to want to get you seat seated that way you're not standing around out here, okay, on the street. He asked if his father could get the bill of sale from inside. His father came outside and tried to locate the paperwork. Meanwhile, the officers continued the process saying that even if Malcolm did not know it was stolen, he was still technically in possession of stolen property. Hey, how are you doing, sir? Hey, um Dad, I need that bill of sale. Reason all this is going down, um that vehicle's entered as stolen in the National Crime Information Center. Do you have the bill of sale by any chance, sir? I I I don't I don't know where it is. It's either in my room or in the garage. I saw y'all sign it, but where did you Um What is the guy's name that sold you the bike? I think his name is Tony or something. Like if you go on my phone you can look at the Facebook profile. It should be on the bill of sale. So look on the counter and see if it's on there. What counter? Inside the kitchen. The first one that has all where you put the mail at. If it's not in there, look in the garage like over by You know where the stuff with the air compressor is? Yeah. All right. It wasn't anything in here like once y'all So um right now what we're going to need to see is we're going to need to We'll see We need to see the bill of sale. Um Right Right now what I'm trying to get taken care of, um with you being in possession of that, I mean, it's still it's still technically possession of a stolen motor vehicle. Um but obviously, if there is a bill of sale and if what what you're telling me is true, then we certainly are willing to work with you. And um Well, I mean, I'm guessing y'all going to take this to my Like take the bike. Am I going to get my money that I spent on the bike Well, that so Right now, my man, one step at a time. What I need to do is I need to grab some information from you. So your um spell your first name, sir. It's Malcolm, is that correct? >> C O L M. Okay. C O L M. C O L M. Got you. And how do you spell your last name, sir? Z I G Okay. L A R. And date of birth? With you being a juvenile, this process is a little bit different as well, too. So um we're not going to take you to jail or anything like that. Um I just need to speak with this officer. Um see what he's got. They're working on getting that bill of sale and then we'll move forward from there, okay? Is there any way you're able to go on my phone so I can show you like where I met up with the dude at and everything? So um Just hang tight for me. Right now they're checking out the bill of sale. After we get all that squared away, we'll we'll work with you, okay? Dad There's multiple of them. There's a few different ones. That's what I'm saying. It should It's either going to be on the counter that has all the mail or it's going to be in my room. Where in your room, son? If it's in my room anywhere, it's going to be as soon as you walk like when you go in my room. It should It should have been on the nightstand, but it should I pretty sure I put that one on the counter where the mail goes. Sir, do you have any copies of anything? I see you got something right there. Those are the ones he just filled out. Okay. Because he was going to sell it. Oh, I got you. Okay. Okay. But we're looking for the one that Where did we go get the bike? Maybe like two weeks ago. Try your chance. Like a week ago. I know where. What was it? Like two weeks ago? Or was it that on a Wednesday or Thursday? So that's what I'm asking. Where is that one? Didn't the guy Didn't she sign one? Didn't she did write one? Look by the I'm pretty sure it's on the counter by where you put the mail at. You look on there. In the bin? No, it would I don't think it'd be on the bin. It'd be somewhere right there. I know it's not the most comfortable right now, but we're we're going to get you out of there soon, okay? I mean it's just At that point, a sheriff arrived on scene. The sheriff asked why a 14-year-old was sitting in handcuffs. He questioned whether Malcolm was actually under arrest or just detained. He pointed out that since Malcolm was a juvenile and there was no charge for stealing the bike directly, the situation did not justify taking him to jail. Yeah, yeah. So, if you could just go and put your legs in for me for a second. All right, you got it. You're almost there. I thought you were wearing like a 14. All right, it's ain't talking for me, all right. Hey. He is dangerous. He He is in danger right now because he is He did not He's 14. Yes. Okay. So, I already explained to him he's detained right now. I told him that >> So, why is he detained? Because that's a stolen motor vehicle. Okay. So, I mean Diggs verified the VIN number, right? Did you Is that before all that that you verified before you I I detained him and then we >> Okay, that's why I asked if he was 1095 or 10 15. He's detained. Okay. So, obviously he's a juvenile, all right? Yeah. You're not charging him with larceny of a Nope. Okay, cuz I said that didn't happen. Yep. So, worst you have is what? >> Possession of stolen motor vehicle. Which is you going to think you get secure custody and all that? Probably not. >> petition. All right. He's 14. Me personally, he ain't going nowhere. You You're with what, Dad? Mhm. Ain't no sense of having him sitting in the car detained with handcuffs on. With what? You ain't If he was 18 and you might be taking him to jail for possession of stolen property. All right. >> Different, but we ain't You ain't going to take him to jail, right? It's going to be a petition. Mhm. I'll go ahead and take him out. Um question for you. Um so, supposedly I know they're working on getting the bill both signed right now. I haven't asked him too many questions, but he's been running his mouth. He said that he got it from some guy off in Lumberton, okay? Okay. My whole thing is I know legally he can still be charged. Um If he's got a bill of sale, me personally Yeah. I have grown up racing dirt bikes, buying four-wheelers. I got Yep. three four-wheelers at the house now. >> Yeah. I've never once had one run until I was a cop. Yep. Most people don't even know they have a chance of one stolen and not beside You get a bill of sale and you think it's not stolen cuz you got a bill of sale and that VIN matches and Exactly. Yeah. Um Diggs got a guy for it. That's what He buys He buys bikes that has problems, fixes them, sells flips. Okay. Me personally, I would pass all the information on to Harnett County. Yep. Um If he's got a bill of sale, I mean You want to go with the petition? Huh? It It basically what you're saying is if he has a bill of sale, you wouldn't be in the following the petition. No, but I'm having him go and talk to Wake County and see if he's got a bill of sale or >> not. Hey, where all do you think that bill of sale would be? >> here. So, you can step out. We're going to take the handcuffs off. Yeah. Where all do you think that bill of sale might be at? I mean it's it's either in the cabinet or in the washing machine or the I mean I've so many kind of Yeah, I know. Your dad came out with quite a few. So, do me a favor. Go and separate your feet for me a little bit. Separate your feet as well, too. Lean forward so I can get the get the key, okay? Yeah, I'm I'm separated. Separate your hand as well, too. You said what? And separate your hands. There you go. After that conversation, the handcuffs were removed. Malcolm was allowed to go back inside. He eventually found the bill of sale. Once officers confirmed the paperwork, they left without filing charges. Later, Malcolm's parents held a press conference. They stated that officers needed better training and reform. They also said they believed the situation was racially motivated. What is clear is this, without the sheriff stepping in and questioning the decision to handcuff a 14-year-old, the situation could have ended very differently. At the end of the day, these cases all show the same thing. Authority only works when it stays within the law. Now, I want to hear from you. Do you think these officers crossed the line? Drop your thoughts in the comments below. I'll see you in the next one.