Is that Challenger right there is part of it? >> Okay. Is there anybody else in the store? >> They're in the jewelry all in the jewelry room right now. There's two big individuals and a lady. They're all in the jewelry room. >> Cool. Let me get someone to the store. We got three people inside. >> Are they open? >> Yeah, we're open. >> Okay. Okay. >> 347 that's the store. >> I'm trying to come in now. Send 347 out to the store. >> Yeah, I'm pretty sure one of them just saw me. >> Dispatch, those vehicles are 54 and both of them are rental vehicles. >> Dispatch, copy tag on the Challenger. >> Go ahead. >> Georgia tag Tom Echo Sierra 3061. >> Copy. 450 dispatch I'm watching. Copy. >> I mean they're all in the jewelry room. >> One already saw me. What's up, man? >> Hey, dog. >> How are you? >> All right. >> Who are you here with? >> You with me. >> Sit over here. >> Where? >> Put your hands behind your back. You're being detained. >> For what? She might have gone in >> Why you detaining me though? >> I'll tell you in a minute. >> Let me see this. >> Can you What was she wearing? >> Black tracksuit. Black tracksuit. >> They can go back to the back. Is there a female you're with? >> I went with a female. This is what happened. >> Is that your car? >> This is my car. >> Okay. I'm going to sit you down, but I'm going to leave the door open. You wanted to say something to me? You said something. You said this is what happened. >> Oh, no. I'm saying these people called me and asked me could I get The people that we in there with? Cuz you put me in You put your hand up. >> guy The other big guy? That you're here You're You're with him? >> I'm not with them. I brought them here though. They called me and asked me could I could I get a check cashed for them. So, I called Farmers to ask him could he cash it. He said, "Yes." So, I showed the big guys where Farmers was. That's what I did. >> Okay. >> But, they in a whole 'nother vehicle. They come from somewhere else. I don't even know where they come from. >> Yeah. What about this guy? >> He's with He with his people. It's all three of them. It's like >> bring anybody here? >> No. >> So, you drove by yourself? >> Yes. >> Okay. Who asked you to come here? That guy? >> Police 570 coming in on traffic right >> They asked me did I know where to cash the check. >> He did or someone else in the party? >> Yeah, someone else in the party. >> Okay. >> And I called Not even this place. I called Farmers on >> The other Farmers? >> Farmers. >> Right. >> And I said, "Do you Could you cash the check?" He said, "Yes." So, I brought them down here to show them. >> Did he tell you to come to the Monroe Street store? >> No. >> You just came to this one? >> Yes, because he told me that he wasn't going to do it. So, I called them and I said, "Well, would y'all cash this check for them?" And he said, "Yes." >> Okay. So, the first store you called, he said he couldn't do it there. >> He told me he would do it. >> I'm confused. Then why did you come to this one and not go to the >> Because we went We went to that one. We just left from there. >> Okay. >> But, he said that he didn't want to cash it because he said it was a large amount. >> Okay. >> So, I don't know where the large amount >> I don't have no checks. I ain't seen no checks or nothing. >> Okay. So, you >> All I know is I called him and told him >> You're just the wheels. >> No, no. I'm not even the wheels. I'm just I'm showing them. >> You're just like a a middleman. >> I called him and told them >> I got you. >> They asked me did I know where to cash the check. And I called Farmers and Farmers said he could do it. >> Okay. >> They're not from here, so >> Where are they from, do you know? >> I don't know where they from. >> Okay. Scoot in. You can just make yourself comfortable. I know it's tight. >> But, you're going to let me go though, right? >> I I Just give me a minute. >> Okay. >> Police 732 dispatch, I have one of the parties detained as well. >> Sir. >> Yeah, hold on. >> Am I clear to >> Hold on a second. I had to turn my camera on. What? >> I said my cousin with me, too, man. >> Where's he at? >> He walked over there with the behind I don't know where the other party of people at. >> Who's your cousin? >> The one that was in the car with me. >> A man or a girl? >> So, not the other big guy that we detained, but someone else? >> Yeah, my cousin with me. >> Was it the big guy in there that we detained? >> No. A big black guy with shorts on. >> Have you been made aware of your constitutional rights? The Miranda warnings yet? Okay. You are a Mr. Yep. I went to school with a girl named Tasha going to class. I knew you was from I was originally from Alabama. Oh, okay. Mr. Lipscomb, you was in there. Mr. Lipscomb. I know the name ain't a regular name. Mr. Lipscomb, you told us to speak to a lawyer. We're conducting a criminal investigation. Where you, sir, have came up as a potential potentially being involved, okay? You are detained at this time as we conduct this investigation. And while we do so, I'm going to ask you some questions. So, we come out and ask you questions. You are detained. I need to make you aware of your constitutional rights. Mr. Lipscomb, you have the right to remain silent. Mr. Lipscomb, do you understand these rights I have explained to you? >> Yes. >> Have you previously requested a law enforcement officer to allow you to speak to an attorney? >> No. >> Having these rights in mind, do you wish to talk to us now? About this investigation we are currently conducting. >> I don't even know you can tell all. >> Okay, but do you have do you have questions for me? I mean >> Well, I'm with him. You said I'm with him. I don't know what's going on. >> Okay, I I have an idea. >> Okay. >> And that's what I want to talk to you about, but I can't ask you questions unless you tell me you're willing to talk and answer my questions. Okay, first is this is this ID correct? This is you? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> My social is actually in my wallet. >> Okay. So So basically what we have we have someone came here and attempted to cash a fraudulent check or stolen check using a fraudulent ID. Um you have been identified as person as being involved with that person. Were you attempted to were you involved in the lady trying to cash a check? >> I wasn't involved with her. I just met her today. >> You met her today? What was she trying to do? >> She was trying to cash check when we walked in. >> Okay, were you aware what kind of check it was? >> No. >> Were you aware how much the check was? >> No. >> Okay, why are you why were you with her? >> No, I said she was here when I walked in. >> So you don't know who she is? >> No, I just met her today with through TJ. >> Okay. >> Well, I don't know if it's you called in Camden. I don't know if you got the right >> Yeah, it's the right person. >> You know, the big black guy that I was with. >> What was your purpose of being here? >> To cash a check. >> You you cashing a check as well? >> Yeah. >> Where is the check? >> They have it. >> Okay. >> They looked at it and then next thing I know I went to buy a watch and then you guys walked in. >> Buy a watch from here? >> Yeah. >> Okay. Where's the check that he tried to cash? >> Uh Brooks >> Now the check that that he's going to present me is that a real check? >> That I That came from TJ. I have no idea. >> Okay, so it's not your check. >> No, it's not my personal >> Give me everything you have related to this case, please. It's okay. >> What do I have a photo of you on my >> So we have two IDs, both your pictures. Two different names. Which one is the the real one? Which one is the fraudulent one? >> My my real one is >> Okay, and this one is not real? >> Right. >> Okay. Have you made copies of these for you? >> No, sir. >> Okay, go ahead and make copies, please. >> Okay. >> So So I guess now to answer the question of why you're detained, right? Okay. So based on what you just said, you just attempted to cash a check with a fraudulent ID. >> Right. >> Okay. Now that check that that TJ gave you >> Mhm. >> it does not belong to you. He gave it to you and asked you to cash it. >> Right. >> Okay. And what were you supposed to do after you cash the check? >> Give the money to him. >> Okay. How much is the check? >> I I have no clue. >> Okay. >> I have no clue. You can look at it. >> What did you get in return? >> I wasn't getting anything. I wasn't getting anything besides my girlfriend and my son being safe. >> What do you mean you mean by that? >> They were supposed to have somebody sitting outside of my house in Ohio. They said if I didn't do it, then they were going to take care of them. >> Okay. But before we continue, you said something that that I'm concerned Your family, I want to make sure they're safe. When last did you speak to Is it your wife and your kids? >> My girlfriend. >> When last did you speak to her? >> I spoke to her maybe about an hour ago. >> Is she okay? >> Is she at the house? >> Is she aware of what's going on? >> No. >> Okay. What is her name, phone number, and address? >> Uh The address is my address. Her name is >> So this address >> I can do whatever I want. 28 That's where she's at? >> Yes. >> Okay. Would you feel comfortable if I have an officer go over there to check on her? Yeah, we can. Is that what you want me to do? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Or I can FaceTime her. See if she just have her look outside and make sure everything good. >> Exactly. But, do you feel comfortable with that? >> Yeah, I want to see her. >> Where is your phone at? >> In my back left pocket. >> Can I call her from my phone? >> Uh I don't know if she'll answer. >> Not even if we FaceTime? >> Mhm. Hey, baby. Everything okay? Can you look outside? I'm here with Tallahassee PD. They want to make sure that you're safe. Make sure They want to make sure you're safe. That the dude didn't send nobody over there to hurt you. Remember you asked about I was going out of town, I couldn't tell you? >> Yeah. >> Yeah, me coming down I had to try to catch a flight this year. Yeah. >> So, what happened? >> Just I just want to I just want to see your face and make sure you're safe. >> I'm good. What? >> Yeah. >> All right, let's go take a look outside. >> Okay. So, it might be a police officer pulling up later just to make sure you're good. But, you asked me why I had to leave so soon, this is why. >> Wow. >> Well, I didn't want y'all I didn't want y'all to get injured. You or the kids, so. All right, can you call her back shortly? I'll call you back shortly, okay? Later. Nothing. >> Do you have any questions for me, sir? >> No. >> No. I mean, I'm just responding to what I'm being told I'm going to jail. >> Yes, sir. You're going to be charged with grand theft, possession of fake ID, uttering information for a fake ID, >> and stuff like that. I'll tell you the exact charges when we get to the car, okay? Um and I'll let you call your girlfriend again. Now, >> state attorney, he is informed. They um they make a lot of decisions based on accepting responsibility for your actions >> Oh, yeah. >> and cooperating as well. So far, you've been doing good. >> I don't have No, I mean, I just want to make sure she and the kids are safe. That's That's all I care >> Mr. Lipsky, what what vehicle y'all arrived in? >> Uh it was in a white van. I don't know what kind of A white van? >> Yeah. It was a white van. And it was a black GMC Denali. >> A black GMC Denali and a white van do you recall? >> I think it was a white Honda Odyssey or something. >> A white Honda Odyssey van, maybe? Oh, for sure. That's Yeah. White van and a You said a GMC Denali? >> Yeah. That's what it looked like. >> Yeah, probably >> A black GMC >> Yeah. >> Probably the best guess of security there. >> to We got all that here. >> I got you. >> Yeah, I didn't even look at that. >> Did they do research on on pawn shops that they go to? >> I have no idea. I know he went to another one. >> Yeah. >> And then we came here. >> Yeah. Farmers, this particular pawn shop, they do their due diligence. They are very thorough, all right, and they are quick to communicate as well. All right. >> How much is the check? Like 3,900? >> Is this your watch or this was what you was trying to purchase? >> No, I purchased that. The receipt >> You purchased this here today? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Out of my money right there. >> Got you. >> Cuz I get disability every month. >> Okay. You asked me a question. What was it? >> Uh what how much was the check? Like 3,900 or something like that? >> 3,700. 3,800. >> 3,800. >> Huh? >> Ain't even worth it, bro. >> It's No, it ain't. >> Mhm. >> And he kept on but I ain't even getting no money out of it. I was just getting making sure that my wife and my my girlfriend and kids is all right. >> So, he he told you that if you don't assist him, he'll he'll hurt your your family? >> He been there. It was the dude that was in the backseat of the Charger. That was >> So, what we doing now is making contact with a detective and see if uh actually see if you want to come and talk to them. And if you do, then what I took to assist with our investigation cuz the our investigation going to only go as far as what we have here. But if you can take it further, that'll be very helpful. And if you say yes, you willing to help, then I will take you to the station, which is right around the corner. And you know, they ask you questions. And then they make a determination after that. Sure. How do what? >> Anything else for me to be bouncing around? >> I just need to know if we going to take this gentleman to 19. >> Okay. Is he interested in talking to them? >> He is. >> All right. >> Let me get that. >> something with you. I got my cameras. >> Usually we have these in the hammer room. Something wrong with it right now. Nobody got >> Oh, you're fine. >> You all say you're from Ohio? >> Yes. >> He said I'm detective here. She'll come back. She'll use this up to that. She's the detective of Pickerington. >> Okay. >> All right. >> Yeah, it was Pickerington. >> You have been to Florida before? >> No, I didn't know I was in Florida. >> You mean to say you were in Florida? >> No. We were in Georgia and then he was like we were going to the check cashing place. And then >> Before we get started too good on this, we're going to wait for her to come back. >> Mhm. >> They will have conversation. >> Okay. >> All right. I'm going to read you your Miranda rights. >> Okay. >> Um before I do that You obviously know what what we're dealing with. >> I wouldn't think I know what it was about. We tried to cash a check. >> saying. There's no reason for me to go through hey, this is what we're investigating and blah blah blah. He was arrested on the street for this. Right. From here he ain't going to go. Okay. So, let me read you your Miranda rights. All you have to do is answer yes or no to each question, okay? >> All right. >> Before you Before you are asked any questions, you must understand the following rights. Knowing these rights, are you now willing to answer my questions without having a lawyer present? >> Yes. >> Have you lived anywhere else other than Ohio? >> Uh I was in majority I've been out of Ohio for about 14 years. I'm over from Michigan now here. >> Did you come straight to Tallahassee from Ohio? >> No. I was I did I said I didn't know we were in Tallahassee. >> You have never been in Florida? >> No. >> You have been asked already. You've never been in Florida in your life. >> Well, I've been here on a business trip, but we were at I want to say Orlando. >> That was a long time ago, but >> Yeah, that's But other than that, no. >> What Before you got to Tallahassee, where had you been? Prior to this, in the coming days. You left Ohio when? >> Left Ohio and went came I thought we was in Georgia. We was in Georgia. >> Well, when did you leave Ohio? >> Uh What's today? >> Today is the 7th. Today is Friday. >> So, it would have been yesterday morning. >> Yesterday morning? So, 2/6 25 >> Mhm. >> And you all headed straight for Georgia from Ohio? Okay. All right. Who did you leave Ohio with? What city in Ohio? >> Uh I'm from from Columbus. >> That's where you got in. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> That's where I got picked up at. >> Um All right. So, meaning you weren't driving. >> No. >> All right. You got picked up by whom? >> Dude named TJ. >> That's all you know? >> That's all I know. >> Uh when you got picked up, was there somebody else in the car? >> It was It was two other dudes. >> Names? >> I don't know their names. Like we was in a white Honda. And then TJ was driving. And then the two dude I was sitting in the passenger seat and the two dudes was behind me. >> Um what what kind of Honda? >> Uh van. >> Odyssey? >> Yeah. I think it was a Odyssey. >> All right. The dude TJ, how long have you known TJ? >> Uh I didn't know TJ previously until last summer. We got into it. And it's been hell ever since. >> So, you met TJ got into it over what? >> We I just bounced at at the club. >> So, you met him in a bouncer capacity? >> No, I threw him out. >> Okay. Um So, you threw TJ out of the club. >> Mhm. Okay. >> Now, since you met him last summer, what was it? How many times have y'all interacted with each other? >> He's pulled up to my house say probably about 10 or 15 times. And he just >> live at? >> He just pull up. >> How did he find out where you live at? >> Cuz I work on cars. >> Okay. >> So, yeah. So, I don't know if one of his people he sent to him for me to find out, but he would stop by the house. I'm like, "The hell are you doing here? My girl and her kids here." He said, "I just want to let you know that I still I got you." I was like, "What do you mean you got me?" He said, "You know when I make that call, you'll know." I'm like, >> And this is all because you threw him out of the club. >> Yeah. Well, I beat him up, but >> All right. >> And then he shot at us that night. >> And that's just doing that. >> Mhm. >> Did you file a police report? >> Yeah, should have been all right. >> You mean you didn't do >> Oh, me personally, no. I think the bar that I worked security at did. >> Were were you documented as a victim in it? >> No. >> Cuz you said he shot at us. Were you standing outside the club when he came back and shot at >> Well, he drove by in his car and >> You saw him shooting? >> Yeah. >> Okay. Why you didn't make sure you were listed as a victim? >> I Last time I did that, I got retaliated against. >> Cuz we got I mean, we want to be able to validate that that this actually happened. That's why I keep >> Right. Um >> So, I mean, you saying it may or may not be a police report. >> Well, I know the I know the club the uh bar should have filed an incident report. The police was there. >> But you don't ever remember them speaking to you as a victim. >> No, they didn't speak to me. >> They didn't speak to you at all. As one of the people that were standing outside when the when the police got there. >> They spoke to the guy that I was working with. They didn't speak to me. >> All right. So, you meet TJ last summer. >> Mhm. >> When he was a random dude at the time. >> I mean he was he was a random he's always he was a regular. >> So you knew him on the club. You throw him out he get beat up a little bit and now he's harassing you over the course of multiple times since last summer. >> Let I know that he he's you know what I mean he's like about that. >> So we fast forward all the way to yesterday he showed up to your house with two other dudes and get in and y'all headed to Georgia. >> Yeah I told you about that. My girl she she was like she was like where you finna go cuz she seen the van pull up and she said where you finna go I said I got to make a move can't tell you but I'll be back. >> Did they call you and tell you he was coming? >> No. That's the funny part. >> So you ain't even packed. >> I ain't no what you what you see me is what I left in. >> What do you mean by you had to make a move though? But it seemed like you knew something was about to happen. >> Cuz TJ said that if I do anything to it with he make that call don't tell nobody or stuff will happen and my girlfriend and her kids will stay with me. >> What do you mean he he called you? >> No when I talked to him before like he called me couple times before. But it was always I know what you're doing. And that's all he would say and hang up the phone and it'll be random numbers. >> he said if you he know what you're doing what you're doing? >> That that's why when the only thing I do is work on cars in my house. >> So prior to him picking you up yesterday he would make phone calls to you. >> It'll be random numbers. >> I know what you're doing. >> Yeah. >> Then all of a sudden he just showed up unannounced yesterday. >> Yeah yesterday. >> To pick you up with two dudes in the backseat. >> Yep. >> Tell me about that. >> I was sitting on the couch. Door door knock I heard the door knock I answered it. Like what the [ __ ] are you doing here? Cuz I should have got up and got in the car. >> What time of day is this? >> This would been 11:00, 12:00 >> at night? >> In the afternoon. >> All right. And he said, "I need to shut Get in the car. Let's go." Told my girlfriend said I'll be back. There's no I'm good. Cuz she don't know what's going on. >> All right. >> So, get in the car we drive I said I thought we were in Georgia. That's when I seen Tallahassee PD come and I'm like, Wait a minute. >> So, this is the stop was at. So, from the time you left Columbus >> Mhm. >> between that time in Georgia at any point did you know what you was about to go do? >> No. >> He never told you? >> Never told me. >> Was there any conversation in the car? >> It was no conversation. I sat just like this with my seat belt on cuz the two dudes behind me one had like uh I want to say it was a black Glock. And the other dude had like a silver revolver. >> Okay. You see these guns. How do you see these guns? Where are these guns at? >> They on their lap. When I When I got in the van, I looked back and I seen both of them right there. And I'm like, "Oh And he was like, "Get in the car." And I didn't see that until this till today. >> All right. Let me stop you again. So, y'all visited two um homes since y'all been here. All right? Mhm. One on Capital Circle and one on Northern. I don't know if you probably know the names of those. >> No. >> Okay. Were there ever females involved? >> Yeah, it was a black female. >> Well, why weren't you going to mention her? >> We didn't get her till Georgia. >> Okay. She was here. >> I apologize. >> Yeah, she was here already. We had pulled up to some grandma pop >> All right. We won't get there yet. >> Okay. >> We ain't got that in that story. >> But >> we But we drove straight through. They was They would switch out >> Cuz we All right. Cuz we find into crimes. All right. And there's a financial crimes aspect to this large aspect to this. What you're describing to us is basically a violent crime, which is kidnapping. >> Yeah, I didn't want to go. >> forced to go? >> I didn't want >> ever express to them that you didn't want to go? >> I told I told TJ that all the time. >> No, no. When they came and picked you up >> Every time we got out at the gas station, I told him I did not want to be here. >> Okay. All right. I got you. When he You said cuz he knocked on your door. >> Yeah. >> All right. Was Did he present anything, or he just say, "Come on, let's go"? >> Yeah, he had his gun in his waistband. >> And how do you know that? >> Cuz his coat was unzipped, and it was sitting right there. >> Okay. So, you was kidnapped at gun Not at gunpoint, but you was kidnapped. >> Right. >> And the gun was presented to you. And you're saying you was in fear, so you went with him. >> Yeah, I went with him. >> All right. >> So, I have a question. >> Mhm. >> That is a long drive, Howard, >> Mhm. >> for you to not want to say anything. I don't buy it. So, I need you to be as honest as you can be in reference to this because let us tell you what we deal with when it comes to these Treasury checks, okay? The MO is that they will pick up people and offer to help them make a little bit of money, but you have to go and pass those checks. So, when we get these guys because we have LPR cameras, flock cameras all around the city, all around this area. >> Mhm. >> And we capture them, and we talk to them, do you think they're going to say that you were completely innocent in this, and that you did not have a part in it understanding the situation going to utter these checks? >> I didn't even know I was cashing the checks like I did here. He handed me that check this morning with the with the black chick. >> What black chick? >> The black chick that was there with you. >> chick. Okay. But what about what about the aspect of riding in a car? I get it that maybe the people don't introduce themselves, but they got street names. People are going to be talking in the car. That's a 18-hour drive. >> They were talking in African or Somalian, but I wasn't talking. >> So these >> We need to get descriptions of these people. >> And did you tell um patrol officers all this? >> Yeah, he told me he he told me to he told me to hush. Well, when he when he came in, I told him I said, "Can I just please call and check on my girlfriend and kids?" Cuz FaceTime her phone. >> He's working on that right now. >> I said, "Just FaceTime her for me." He said he wanted me to sit up a patrol car over there. I said, "Well, she don't know what's going on cuz I just left. I told her I'd be back." >> There's So, if we were looking at phone, there would be no text messages at all. You didn't even text or nothing the whole time with your girl at all. >> Yeah, I text her FaceTime her. >> Okay, so what did you tell her? What kind of stuff were you telling her? >> just She was like, "Everything's fine." I'm like, "Yeah." I'm not going to tell her that's what's going on because it has somebody sitting on the house. Cuz if he if he could get if he could get to me, he could get to my girlfriend and her kids. >> I'm listening to you. >> So I know it sound like it's a bunch of BS. >> on your part. You're not telling us everything, and it's not going to look good if we find out there's more to this than what you're telling us. You'll be an active participant. >> I don't even I did I don't even get money from this. I I am on disability. I have two hips and two knees. >> There is there any When we look at the phone, is there going to be any text messages, phone calls from TJ? To and from TJ? >> No, there won't be none from TJ. >> I'm not sure. >> Besides random numbers, he call He don't ever text me. He always call me. And it'll be it'll be a number from Westerville. It'll be a number from Gahanna, it'll be a number from um a 740 number. I don't know what numbers they are. >> Would you consent to us going through your phone? >> No. No. >> Why? >> Because I got personal pictures in there on my phone. >> We don't care about that. >> No. >> We're trying to collaborate your side of the story and also >> Cuz you hey, you just told us you was kidnapped. >> Yeah. >> But you care about some penis pictures? >> No, they ain't penis pictures. >> We don't care about none of that. We've seen it all. All. Nothing is going to surprise us. >> Okay. >> We make no judgment calls on people cuz we've seen worse people. I promise you. So to say no that we can't go through your phone, it doesn't look like you're trying to protect pictures. It looks like you're trying to hide something other than pictures. It just don't make sense with somebody who said they was kidnapped. >> I could I could pull up the the the uh uh >> No, that's not good enough, sir. >> Sorry. >> But I don't never touch my phone. >> You've been lied to many times before. That's not good enough. That's not going to work, so we'll move on from that. >> Um >> So, TJ and this these two dudes, they pick you up. And like she already said and what you established is there's no communication whatsoever from Columbus, Ohio to Tallahassee, Florida. >> Mhm. With with him? >> Anybody in the car? >> Anybody. >> Anybody >> Oh no, they were they were on their phones. They were talking >> Were they talking to you though? Like was there any communication about what was about to happen? >> No. They were just speaking Somalian or whatever it was. I don't know that. >> Okay. >> Or French. >> Let's fast forward to Tallahassee. >> Mhm. >> The black female is introduced. >> That was in Georgia. >> Georgia, I'm sorry. >> Cuz I didn't even know we was in Tallahassee. >> What city in Georgia? >> Um that I want to say Cuz it was only like a hour ride here. >> So, somewhere in South Georgia is what you saying? >> Yeah. It wasn't even I don't even think it was an hour ride. >> What was the point What was the point in stopping in Georgia? To get her? >> Yeah, we picked up the the black chick. >> Did y'all make any stops prior to picking her up? >> No. >> Did y'all make any stops after picking her up in Georgia? >> No, we came straight down here. We picked her up and came here. >> What about gas? >> I mean, they stopped and got gas, but I didn't get out. >> Okay. You stayed in the car when they picked her up. >> Mhm. >> Okay. Y'all picked her up in an apartment, house, job? >> Gas station. >> All right. She's waiting for y'all at a gas station. >> Yeah, it was like the gas station is like here and she was like right here. >> What's her name? >> I don't know her name. I just know her >> mentioned her name while in the car? >> Well, I don't know her name personally. I just knew her She was like, "My name Auntie." >> How old do you think she was? Like Auntie? >> Yeah. She don't look She don't look over 35. 40? >> Did she get in the car in a dress? >> No. >> Okay. >> She jumped in and she was like, "Your first time?" I'm like, "First time what?" She was like, "Never mind." >> Okay. All right, you can continue the story. >> So, when we picked her up, we came here, we stopped at another check casher spot. >> The the one on the the phone number? >> Yeah, the first one. I don't know >> So, y'all only made how many stops in Georgia? >> That's the second one that we went to. >> Okay. >> So, we stopped there and he said, "You're going to" He gave me the paperwork. So, he said, "You're going to go in and cash this check." >> He gave you a paperwork? Obviously, check. Anything else? >> No, he just gave me this and my ID. Do you have the credit card? >> Yeah, it's a white white card? >> Yeah. >> What's on the card? >> That's the same one right here, but it's her name. >> No, I have one. It might be my wallet. >> Okay. >> But, he said, "Go in and cash this." I'm like, "Okay." Go in. The dude was like, "Too much. We can't do it." I didn't even I didn't even get to cash mine. She walked up first and he said it's too much. "So, we don't cash nothing over $4,000 here." >> Were you standing behind her? >> Yeah. >> In line? So, let me ask you, did you present this ID to the counter or you didn't have the opportunity to do so? >> At the second spot? >> Yeah. >> No, the second spot, like, the guy came around, he said, "Can I help you?" I said, "Yeah, I'm here to cash the check." >> Okay. >> And it was a dude that was the dude that was there. He went in the both spots with us. >> Okay, so the first store that you stopped at, you didn't even get to present to the counter. >> Yes. >> She did. >> Yes. >> But, she then and because of that you both left. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> And then we came to he came to this spot. TJ was like, "We going to follow this dude cuz he got a plug." And I'm like, "Dude, like, I'm not trying to do that." He was like, "Well, you don't have a choice." I'm like, "Okay." I'm like, "Okay, well, it is what it is." >> So, forgive me. So, at the second store, y'all both presented? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> The first one I did and he The dude was like, "It's too much." He said, "The first one, it's only he only can do a 4,000 he only his max high was 4,000." That's when I found out how much the check was worth. >> Uh-huh. >> When I looked at it, I'm like, >> So, you're saying the first store, the first one was cuz I thought I heard she presented but you didn't. >> No, I did. >> You presented but she didn't. >> Yeah, the second store, she presented. >> Okay. >> And then that's when the guy another guy came from around the corner and said, "Can I help you?" And I gave him that check. >> Okay. >> Okay, so you presented at both stores, she presented at the second one. >> Correct. >> Okay, got it. >> Because as when he denied me, we just turned around and went with the dude and walked out. >> Got it. >> All right. >> And he was the TJ went in the store with both of y'all >> No, TJ was in a white car. He TJ never got out. >> Who was the person that went in the store with y'all? >> One of the people with TJ. >> One of the guys in the back seat. >> Yes. No, he wasn't in the van with us. They were in another car. >> All right, so there's a second car. >> Yes. That that was there. They just let him drive off. >> When did that come into play? >> When we when we >> the second car come into play? >> When we pulled up to that first spot. >> All right. So y'all meet So y'all meet a girl in Georgia. Y'all pick her up. Y'all come to Tallahassee. You get to the first store, there's a second car with y'all. >> Yeah, the second store. >> What Describe the second car. >> It was a Dodge Charger. >> What color? >> Like a dark blue. It's dark blue or black. >> Like a navy blue or black? >> Yeah. >> How many people were in that car? >> It was three. >> Male, female, what? >> It was all males. Only female was the one that was with me in the van. >> You picked her up in Georgia, >> Tinted windows on the Charger? >> Yes. >> How do you know there was three males in that car if they had tinted windows? >> Because when they pulled up in front of us, they pulled up like this and had He rolled the window down. That's when TJ got out, went up to the car, got this, and got back in the van with us. >> Okay. Which occupant in the Dodge Charger went into both Farmers with y'all? >> I don't know his name. >> Two passengers. Which one Like was it the driver or was it two of the pass One of the two passengers? >> It was the It was a big black guy. >> You don't know which seat he got out of? >> No, I don't. >> So he could have been the driver. He could have been one of >> He could have been the driver or the passenger. But I know for a fact he didn't get out the back seat cuz he's too big to fit in the back seat of that Charger. I mean a Challenger. >> Okay. Okay. >> Charger or Challenger? >> Challenger. It was two-door. Yeah. The Charger is the four-door. >> So the checks >> and the IDs come from >> The Challenger. >> The Challenger, Challenger. >> The Challenger, correct. >> Okay. So, you were in a van from Ohio down. >> Mhm. >> What does the van look like? >> It was a white Honda or I don't honestly a van. >> They make more than an Odyssey? Or is that the only van they make, Honda? >> No, just the Odyssey. >> It looked like a Honda. >> Yeah, it probably was a Honda. >> So. >> Okay. Do you remember anything anything distinct about these vehicles before we move on to anything else? Any characteristics, damage, something in the bump the window bumper stickers? >> Hanging on the mirror? >> They looked The only thing The only thing I could say that was wrong with it was it was it was dirty. That was it. >> So, they didn't come off as rentals? >> They probably could have been a rental. >> Do you remember what kind of tags they had on them? Don't make it up. >> I'm not. I'm trying to see the last two. >> I mean, I'm just about the state. >> Oh, the state? The state was Ohio tag. >> On the Odyssey. >> Yeah. >> What about the Charger or Challenger? Do you remember seeing the tag on that one? >> No, I don't. It was a black plate, so I don't I'm not for sure. >> So, you You do realize, obviously you do, you were you were attempting to, whether you tell them the truth or not, completely separate yourself from any wrongdoing. >> Oh, no. I'll take responsibility for walking in trying to cash this. >> Oh, no, no. But, see, what you're saying you did under duress. >> Oh, yeah. I didn't want to do that. >> It's a It's a cool story. I ain't saying you lying. >> Right. >> that's what's happening. You're trying to completely separate yourself from any wrongdoing at all. >> Right. I mean, but the guy was like, "You getting paid off for this." I'm like, "I don't get paid off of nothing." >> But, there's also other things There's other aspects where you It sounds like you had full control of your phone the entire trip. >> Mhm. >> At any point you could have told your your girlfriend, "Hey, this what's going on." You could have told her, "Listen, they got me at gunpoint. They're taking me I don't know where. Don't call the police." You don't even sound like you did that. >> Mhm. >> Cuz you can ask my girl every time I FaceTimed her, the dude was behind me. And I FaceTimed her and I was just talking to her like this. And I made it to I made it seem to her like I was just going down here just normally. >> For what though? Like if I'm your girlfriend, I'm going to be like >> I don't want her I don't If she did she cussed me up one one tree and down the other, trust me. But I he said somebody was going to be riding past my house. When the detective when the police officer asked me if I can make a call, I said can I please FaceTime my girlfriend. I said can you go outside and make can you look out the window and make sure there's nothing in front of the house. And she said there's nothing out there. I said okay, cool. And then he said he was going to see if they could get a contact with Columbus PD to see if they could ride by and check on the house for me. >> Make us make us or help us to identify TJ. How would you do that? Cuz this is somebody you dealt with in the on the club scene mostly. >> Yeah, he Well, he cut his dreads off. Only thing I know is he a a big-time baller. That's all I know. Every time he used to come in he'll buy he'll come in with bottles. >> Who do you know that knows his real name? >> Nobody. Everybody call him TJ. I don't know if it's what it stand for if it's tied or Cuz on the on the everybody there is always just nicknames. >> If he's a big baller though he ain't going to be driving no Honda Odyssey to the club. What's he driving to the club if he comes all the time? >> Every time he come to the club he's always in a different car with somebody else driving. >> What what I picture don't match? >> This one? >> Yeah. >> That I don't >> I think it's your driver's >> It's your picture. >> Yeah, just like my other ID. My driver's just like my driver's license, yes. >> I don't have to ask you questions about your real ID cuz it's your real ID. You went into the office and you took a picture. >> Right. >> But where did they get this picture from? Who took this picture? >> No, I didn't take that picture. >> Is this the same one that's on his ID? >> No, because the one at the the one at the dealership at the Western Union they they told me to take my glasses off. >> got the glasses that you're wearing. >> Yeah. >> You understand the way that the counterfeiting of IDs works is that they are I'm going to tell you this does not fit the MO that we see with this, okay? That's why we're really pressing because this looks like you assisted because your information had to be given and you gave them somehow they got this picture of you wearing those frames. And her asking that question to you, is this your first time? And this whole thing about having these cards, what did they tell you about this this debit card that you carried? Why what was the purpose of that? >> She said they going to ask you for two forms of ID. >> Did you think about At some point you had to know that this was not going to This is not at the very beginning this is not legit. >> Right. When I I noticed it once he handed it me the check at the first spot when I walked in to cash it. That was the first time he ever looking at the check. >> But what about the >> And I looked at the dude and he was like "What's your what's your social security number?" And I just typed something in. >> At what moment? Where where where did you want? >> At the at the spot. >> Oh, at the store? >> Yeah. >> When were you when were you given this? >> I got this when the guy came down when we met him there. >> The guy in the challenge? >> Yes. >> So the guy in the challenge he gave you that card too? >> No, he gave all of this to TJ. It was in a package. It was in a white >> our point. >> Yeah, yeah. >> The guy in the Challenger >> Yeah. >> had all this. >> Yeah, he had all It was in a It was in a white FedEx envelope. >> Some random guy that you don't know from Adam >> Yeah. >> from a can of paint had a fake Ohio ID >> Only thing I know of is T.J. >> with a picture of you. >> The only only dude I know of is T.J. The rest of the people I have no idea who they are. >> Did you ever give your ID over to T.J. ever? >> My ID? >> Mhm. >> No, it's been in my wallet the whole time I've been here. >> Okay, so I'm going to ask you this question again, though. Okay, Howard. The issue that I have with this is that you drive 18 hours or however long it takes to get from Ohio down to Tallahassee. You meet these people you don't know and they just by a miracle have an ID that has a picture of you with the same frames you're wearing now and all your personal information, your date of birth, all this stuff. How did that happen? >> This, I have no idea cuz I don't know none of this on Ronald, whoever he is. >> Right, you're They're They're actually having you pretend to be somebody else. >> Right. Like I said, I didn't know that until >> But, how did they get the image? >> That's what we're trying to figure out. Like, where did that picture It's you. >> Right. >> You know you better than anybody. You should be able to tell us where you took that picture at. >> I take pictures all the time. >> Yeah, but you you take mug shot license style pictures? >> No, I don't. Only time I do those is like when I'm taking a selfie. >> That's not a selfie, though. >> Yeah. It's not >> there's more to this just >> It got to be. It don't make no sense. Where did he get the picture from? >> I'm telling you what I know. >> Howard Uh she's already discussed the whole MO thing. Like, you coming to Tallahassee to Four Moons. Four Moons is a hot spot right now for this type of thing, for Treasury checks. This is probably the sixth or seventh case that we worked with treasury checks. At Farmers, no other store, no other pawn shop, no other business in this city gets treasury checks, fake treasury checks, real treasury checks, where people are trying to pass them off as theirs, all right? No other store, no other business. So, this we're familiar with. The the way that you the part that you play in this, we're not familiar with. >> Right. >> So, it comes off as if you created a story to protect yourself. >> No, I don't have nothing to protect myself from. Besides making sure my girlfriend and her kids are squared away. >> Well, the officer is working on that, but these are federal checks. >> And these, like I said, the guy in the Challenger handed him a a FedEx white envelope. >> how it's done, yep. Yep. Cuz he's ordered he has ordered the ID to match the check. >> And then when he got back in the car, he he then opened it up and he said, "Here you go. Here's this." And gave the ID to the other chick. >> Right. But every time we've worked this case, the people who are coming in to utter these checks are active participants in this case cuz they're going to get a cut if they get the money out. >> I wish I would have knew that it was worth that much money. >> Why? >> Because I would get a cut. We go fight $37,000? >> But that's not your money. >> Listen. >> And you got kidnapped. >> What would you do with $37,000? I would have made some made some shake with $37,000. I would have put something on him. >> Well, that that contradicts everything that you told us. >> Man, listen. >> You told us that you got kidnapped. Now, you're saying if you would have known how much it was, you you would have made sure that you got a piece of it. >> I didn't see the check. I I went to Farmers. >> That goes against every That goes against everything that I thought about you. >> Okay. >> Why would somebody who was nice to you, however, who would you simply got kidnapped wanting to steal money from people? >> $37,000 I could run for $37,000. >> down on it. So, why should we believe your story? You're doubling down if you're saying on on the point you said, "If I would have known how much money this was, I would have asked for a cut." >> I would have took the whole thing. >> You get what I'm saying? So, basically you would have stole. >> Yeah, from here, yeah, and then got my son down the way. >> So, that >> I would have got back to Ohio and moved. >> So, that strengthens our belief. >> That I got something to do with it. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, okay. If I had $37,000, I would have definitely moved, packed up, and >> I'm going to tell you detective detective Pinkerton. >> This ain't y'all's first time, radio. I know that. >> have done what you said you would have did. >> Mhm. I'd have been in my car, I'd have texted my girl, I'd have said, "Get the hell down to the police station, take the kids, pack up real quick, and once these guys got out the car while you were sitting in by yourself cuz they're all going into the store and getting gas, I'd have hauled tail." >> Howard, you're a grown man. You're not You're not a baby. >> I can't run. I have need two hips and two knees. >> You don't need to run. You just need to take the opportunity to get away from them when you saw them go in the store cuz you said you said a little bit ago they all got out, I stayed in the car, I never got out of the car. >> I didn't say they all got out. >> Hey, Howard. >> once said they all got out of the car. >> Howard. Your story is so wild that when you have to sit before a judge and a jury, they might laugh. >> Okay. Then I mean it is what it is what Like I said, I didn't know nothing about the Challenger until we got down here. >> Howard, I don't care how hard a man is. All right? If he was kidnapped with guns, multiple guns, when he has opportunity to sit before police officers, people who are hired to help them, most people in your situation would probably be saying, "God." Crying tears, "I'm safe. I was I didn't have >> I won't be safe until I know for a fact that my my girl and my kids are safe. >> Give me just a minute. >> That's my only thing. They're safe, I'm good, too. >> So, what was the point of coming up here to talk to us? >> He told me to come talk to y'all. >> Said you wanted to talk to us. >> That's what I didn't know nothing about these until I got here. >> You said you wanted to talk about those. >> Yeah, I didn't know nothing about them until I got here. >> those either. >> The only thing I know is T.J. T.J. came We came down here. He met the dude in the in the in the in the Challenger. The guy he never got out of the car. He handed it to him just like this out the window. And both. >> So, the the the black girl, that's her? >> Yeah. >> But you don't know if that's her real name. >> No, like I don't know. I just met her when we got to Georgia. Like I said, I didn't even know we was in Tallahassee. >> All right. Give me description of T.J. Black male, right? >> Black male. >> Dark skin, light skin? >> Um Between you bit lighter than you. >> So, dark skin. We call that dark skin. >> And how tall are you? >> How tall? I'm 5'10. >> Okay, then he's probably 6'. >> 6 foot? >> Yeah. >> 6 6'1 or 5'11? >> He's only a little bit a little bit taller than you. >> All right, 5'11, 6 foot? >> Yeah. >> How much do you think he weighs? >> Oh, he's a big boy. >> Big boy. >> Between what and what? >> I'm 350. So, he got to be 350 between 350 and 370. >> Age range. >> Uh I'd say anywhere between 20 You can't tell nowadays. Um >> Just give me a 10-year age range. >> I'd say 25 to 35. >> Hair? >> He cut his dreads off, so now he just has a regular haircut. >> Like a even all over? >> Yeah. >> Low? >> Yep. And he had on a um >> beard >> a black beanie >> Hold on before we go there. Hair? Facial hair? >> No, he just had this. He didn't have a full Yeah, he just had >> Yeah, he had the box. He didn't have none of this. >> I would call it a goatee mustache. Tattoos? >> He had one right here. >> What is it? >> And it was like a female's name. It was in Spanish, so I couldn't or French. >> On the right side or left side? >> It was on the right side, like where where my sideburn is at. It's right here. >> So female name, sideburn tattoo? >> Mhm. >> In Spanish? >> Mhm. >> Short or Spanish? >> Well, Spanish or French. Like I said, they were speaking French, so I don't know if >> You got a tattoo of a goatee? >> He had >> Marks? >> Marks he had right here. It was like It's about like a scar like this. >> I would say that's about 5 in long. >> Yeah. It looked like I don't want to say somebody stabbed him, but that's It was like this, but it was like You know how you would get burned and it bubble? >> Yeah. >> It was some scar tissue. >> Yeah. It looked like a keloid that go on the back of your ear. It looked like It was something like that. >> Okay. Um anything else distinguishable about him? >> No. >> All right, clothing description? >> Clothing description he had on It was all black with some black Jordans. >> You said a beanie? >> Yep, a black beanie. >> All right, one last thing. >> Yes, sir. >> So, understand your initial I'm not asking, I'm telling you what you said, okay? You said that y'all went from Columbus to Georgia >> Mhm. >> to here. >> Mhm. >> Nonstop. Boom, boom, boom. >> Yeah. >> All right. So, why in the world when you FaceTime your girlfriend she say you clearly look like you in a room and you never got out. >> In a room? >> Yeah. It It's It's You don't mistake the inside of a car for a room. >> No. >> A bedroom. >> To be more specific. >> Yeah, no. >> So, why she say that when you FaceTimed her? When y'all FaceTimed, you were clearly in a room. >> Yeah, with the chick. >> Huh? >> The chick that we picked up. >> Okay, explain. >> We We picked her up. We shot over there. >> From the gas station. >> Right. >> Shot over where? >> To the house. >> What house? >> TJ's or her house, I don't know. >> All right, see how you add stuff in? >> No. >> You don't see that? >> I didn't think about it. >> We have literally you made it clear that you went straight from Columbus to Georgia to here, nonstop. >> We didn't stop at a gas. We drove straight through. >> Now you telling me y'all stopped at a house. >> We We didn't stop at a house till we were here. >> It doesn't matter. You saying y'all went to a house. >> Yeah, after we picked up old girl, Auntie. >> You never mentioned that. >> You asked me did we drive straight through? Yes. >> You didn't think that would help us in our investigation? Cuz you clearly want to make sure that your girl is okay, right? >> Yeah. >> So, if you stop at somebody's house it's a house. >> Yeah. It was a >> you a break if you told me it was an apartment. >> No, it's a house. >> A house? >> It's a big-ass house. >> So, if you tell the police that you stopped at a house, what do you think the police want to know? >> Where the house is at. >> Yeah, you're right. >> Yeah. >> What else do you want to know? >> What the house looked like. >> What else do you remember? >> I remember we pulled up, we went into the garage. It was a one-story. It wasn't tall, it was long. So, I don't know what is that, a ranch? >> Yeah. >> Well, we pulled in. We pulled in. The garage door opened. We went in. We went in through the back, through the garage door. Me and her, and the two the other dude went straight in. The dude behind >> All right, prior to you getting to the house, what do you remember? Like, landmarks. >> Only before the house, we passed a picked her up at the gas station. And then it was like a long road. >> What do you remember landmarks? >> No, I know what landmarks are. I'm trying to think >> there? I don't want you overthinking it. >> No, I'm not overthinking it. I'm trying to see what was there. The only thing I could really remember is the tall buildings here. >> So, I mean You don't want to give us your phone, but it's a good chance we're going to find out and take that phone. >> Okay, I mean, I can open it up right now for you. >> Oh. Okay. >> Cuz y'all think I got something to hide. >> All right. We'll probably still take the phone. >> Yeah. But I mean, that's probably why y'all pulled >> love to look at your phone, man. I mean We'll take your phone. Let Just let's slow down for a second, okay? >> But yeah, the house >> Listen. >> The buildings was tall like here. That's how I thought I thought we was still in Georgia until y'all pulled up on us. >> All right. >> It was a tall old building downtown. >> But it's a house? >> No, I'm sorry. When we got here. >> Oh, okay. >> Because we left Farmers, whatever it's called. >> Mhm. >> And then we came and it was probably not even 10 minutes that we went to the other spot. But we passed like these It was a tall and we came down the street It was a tall building. >> Like up a hill at the top of the hill? >> No, it was it was all flat. Only hill we came through really was the um the hill coming down the farmers or whatever it's called. But it was on this side. It was a It was a government building. I know that for sure cuz it had a something on the side of it. But it was before we hit um the second one. Cuz I remember we came in as you come down the street, it's this huge building that's old. It's like pinkish. It's tall. You can't miss it cuz it's take up like almost the whole damn block. >> Are you talking about the capital building? The old capital building with the awning the awning the >> Awnings? The candy cane awning? >> Uh No, I was >> The old building in front and then the tall building behind it? >> Yeah. >> And that's where you were basically coming up off of election parkway. Is that what you were saying? Okay. >> Yeah. It was >> It was directly in front of y'all? >> Yeah, I mean literally. Like >> made a right or left to go to the second one? Second one or >> We made a right and came down that street. >> Yes. >> And then we When I saw that building, we took another right and then it was another building >> On the right? >> Like yeah, on the left hand No, it was on the left hand side. Like that was y'all capital in front of us, we took that right. >> All right, so and this is before y'all went to the house or after y'all went to the house? >> This is after This is once we met up with him. >> Yeah, so he went to the house first. She got her and went to the house. >> Did you So you went inside the house? Who was all in the house? >> It was a couple other dudes in there. They was in there smoking and drinking. They put me and her in the room. So I was just in the room with her. She was cool, but she was just Yeah, she was cool. She'd walk out. But, if I had to do something, they was like, "No, we got to make sure you good." So. >> All right. >> But, they But, she knew them. >> And I mean, so what was the point of going to the house? >> That's where they was sitting up there smoking and drinking. >> Just smoking and drinking. >> When I walked in, they When I walked in, what I saw was this [ __ ] right here on the camera. And it was money everywhere. >> Is that where they took your picture? >> No. >> They was going to use the car to drive the person anyway. >> Yeah. >> Oh. >> Yeah, no, that car That car they came already. When you got in the That That was it. >> When did you When did you take the picture though for the for the ID? Who did it? Which one of the people took the picture? >> TJ. >> TJ took the picture? So, did he use a phone or did he use a camera? >> He used his phone. >> And when did he do that? >> That was today. >> And where was that at? >> That was at the house. >> Okay. All right. >> So, at the house is where they were staging and got your picture and then when you went to Fulmer's, that's when the other car shows up with the with the stuff. There you go. >> But, I thought you said Excuse me. >> Okay. >> But, I thought you said y'all went to Fulmer's before y'all went to that the first Fulmer's before y'all went to that. >> No, we went to the house first. >> Okay. So, once y'all got to Tallahassee, y'all went to the house. >> No, when we When we got in the When we When we got in the Georgia, we went to the house. >> The house So, the house in Georgia. >> Yes. >> Oh, so the house is not in Tallahassee. >> No. I didn't know we were in I didn't know we were in Florida. >> Okay. I got you. >> Because there we jumped on the highway, he said we got to go pick up her. And I'm like, "Okay, we good." But, I didn't know we I didn't even know we were in Florida. >> Okay. All right. >> But, it was TJ who took the picture with his phone of you and her. >> had his regular phone. >> Okay. Did they have like a screen or something that you sat in front of? >> No, it was just the wall. >> At that point, did you realize like did you know what was going on? Did they fill you in? >> No, I didn't know nothing about it until I hit Farmers. >> Why did you think you were taking a picture of me? I asked. >> Huh? >> Why you thought you were taking a picture? >> No, I didn't. >> I said, why did you think he was taking a picture? >> Because we was in we was in the bedroom. I don't got to say [ __ ] with them up smoking and whatever they was doing. And then that's when he he he took it on his phone. We sat there for a second. >> You recording? >> And then we rolled out. Yeah. And then that's when we got over at at the We at the Farmers and that's when the dude boom boom. So, I don't know if the dude he just sent it to the dude and he just did what he did, but >> The car was running when you got here. >> Yeah, everything was he got everything at the Farmers when we got here. >> The first one. >> Yes. >> And the Challenger wasn't involved at all in the second one. >> No. >> And the documents at the first Farmers >> AT&T had the documents at the first one. I never sent them again. >> And when you went to the second Farmers, who went in with y'all again? >> It was me and it was a it was a girl and it was a black dude. >> The black dude came from where? >> I don't know. >> Cuz he didn't come from the Challenger. My first understanding was he came out of that Challenger, but now but you told me that the second Challenger the Challenger wasn't involved in the second Farmers at all. >> Unless it No, not the second one. The first one. >> So, a black dude just came out of thin air? >> No, the black dude that was there >> at the second Farmers, where did that black dude come from? >> He was with them. >> Who? >> TJ. >> In the van? >> In the van? >> Yeah. >> But you not See, I just asked you that and you said >> The dude that went inside with us? >> At the second Farmers. >> Yes, at the second Farmers, he was in the Challenger. >> How did he get there? >> Well, how did he get there? >> The Challenger was there. >> Nah, bro. See, now your story is jacked up because we've already made it clear and I'm not going to renegue on this. You made it clear the second the the challenger was not involved in the second farmers. >> Hold on. Stop. Hold on. Hold on. Stop. Stop. >> Okay. They gave you all the documents at the first farmers. Correct. All right. >> Mhm. >> Black dude went into the farmers with y'all at at the first farmers. And then from the challenger went into the farmers with y'all at the first farmers. All right. >> Yes. >> The challenger didn't go to the second farmers. >> No, he didn't. >> But a black dude Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. A black dude went into the farmers with y'all at the second farmers. >> I don't know. >> Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. But see, that's the thing though. You're contradicting yourself. You said it Now you're saying he got out of the van because you're trapped, but before you said the second the challenger didn't show up at the second farmers. Now you're trying to Now you're trying to show Now you're trying to make the black dude come out of the van when you just said he came out of the challenger. >> Challenger in the first one. He After we walked out of farmers, we got in the we got in the van. He said we going He's the one that said we's going to the spot cuz he had the plug. Him and TJ. >> But you But you never said that he got into the van and you drove with y'all to the second farmers. >> Oh, that's what No, they was asking me for the uh the van thing. >> Huh? >> I told them that they was in the van. >> Your story all over the place. >> So there was So if I if I'm counting people correctly, initially there were three people in the challenger, there were two black males in the back of the van, you were in the front passenger seat, TJ was the driver, but the black female was in the van as well. >> Yes, she was in the back back. >> Yes. >> Yep. And then when we left the first farmers, the dude got in the back with her. >> With her. Okay. >> But you know you never mentioned that. >> What I would have told him? I said he went in with us. >> Yeah, but you never mentioned Yeah, you never mentioned No, I mean you said it >> are just really important, okay? I'm just trying to >> It's frustrating when the story doesn't connect every time you tell them? >> We'll be right back. >> He was charged with two counts of fraud, larceny, and criminal use of personal identification. Thanks for watching. Be sure to subscribe for more videos like this.