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good afternoon this is Daniel here with cops and cons TV I just want to welcome everyone into our live show today and we're going to break down some of the most important issues in policing and just go over some of the most interesting stories that happened in the last week and yes this is the first week of 2023 but there were so many interesting police stories and controversial police incidents that occurred we're not going to get to all of them but we've got five or six really good ones so while we're going through it and I'm going through some of these cases if you have any opinions or you think that I get something right or get something wrong definitely put it in the chat that's one of the things that I love the most about doing this live show is being able to interact with our viewers last week when we did this we really went back and forth on several different cases and we really got into the Weeds on some just really incredible and important topics so definitely put stuff in the chat there again I want to welcome everyone in and if you haven't already please subscribe to our channel so you know when we put out all of our new videos the most raw police body cam out there and then also when we do this live show we typically do it on Fridays 12 o'clock Mountain usually around lunch time so I want to welcome in some people we've got Randall Lewis who's retired police officer retired law enforcement from Flint Michigan and just curious for anybody else is coming from today and um yeah so it's a little context as everyone knows January 6th happened after you know probably about six to nine months of rioting on the streets from black lives matter and antifa for months and months and months and then there was a ride on January 6th so we had you know had riots from the left and we protest it is legal and it is also important to do however rioting is illegal if you write if you set buildings on fire anything like that if you destroy public property whether it's in the capital or whether it's at a federal courthouse in Portland no matter what that is that should be a crime and you should absolutely be punished what is inside someone's brain so the bad idea is that someone fueled by antifa or fueled by Q Anon it doesn't really matter that isn't that interesting the important part is to be consistent and that we should want everyone to have the same outcome the same legal outcome no matter what side of the aisle that they are on uh let's see uh I think therefore I am nice try FBI yeah where is Ray Epps absolutely uh January 6 was a setup no riots well okay so people think that January 6 we kind of have a couple different levels here and just so you know cops and con TV does have footage from the from the capital riots you know we definitely on our Channel if you want to go ahead and check that out but it's we have a couple different levels here when it comes to January 6th so some people say that it was a setup then other people say it was kind of in the middle say it was a right and then some people say that it was an Insurrection so you know it's interesting to see kind of what people think um on those on those different levels and we just went ahead and put in the chat some of the footage that we have from January 6. all right so when it comes to police stories the first case that we're going to get to happened in Breckenridge Pennsylvania on January 2nd 2023 and I'll be honest when I first heard about this story that it was in Breckenridge Breckenridge is the town in Colorado that me and my wife go to all the time it's a nice little ski town and when I heard that there was an officer involved shooting and a police chief was killed I was I was pretty surprised because Breckenridge Colorado I mean if they have a moose walking around downtown that's about the most action police officers are gonna get however looking into a little more is actually Bracken Ridge Pennsylvania and what happened this was on January 2nd of 2023 and just not a good way to start the new year so what happened was is there's a 28 year old named Aaron Lamont Swann Jr he's an individual and he was wanted on a probation violation so essentially what a probation violation is it's equivalent to a felony warrant so it's someone who had been convicted of a felony and then instead of being in custody in jail the judge the court system the D.A has let them basically live their life free under certain conditions parole would be the most conditions and then probation would be the second most conditions you know typical uh things that people have to do while they're on probation is they can't drink alcohol they can't do any illegal drugs they have to have a job they can't associate with known criminals they have to maybe they have an electronic monitor where they have to be they have to be in at their home at a certain time there's many different obviously they can't pick up any new charges so there's different things that people can't do restrictions when they're on probation if they violate that then what happens is the court issues the warrant and that warrant for the probation violation again it's equivalent to a felony warrant so it's seen by police officers as a pretty serious thing so what happened in this case is this individual police officers were trying to get him um he first tried to get him into custody he first had contact and was uh tried to be arrested by Harrison Township Pennsylvania police officers at about 2 pm well while this happened he fled that there there was a foot chase and this foot chase went on for several hours he was hiding out in different places and it took several hours before police officers were able to contact him again then at about 4 15 PM so a little over two hours later a Brackenridge police officer was then able to contact Mr Swan and he joined the foot chase not only did one police officer from the Brackenridge Police Department joined the foot shift but um Chief McIntyre Justin McIntyre who was the chief of the Brackenridge Police Department he got involved in the chase as well and unfortunately at this point there was a tragic series of events where their bad guy Mr Swan he shot two police officers essentially while they were chasing him he was lying in weight and he essentially ambushed Chief McIntyre he shot him and he killed him also he shot one other police officer from the the tarrantown Pennsylvania Police Department Officer Sharon ghost during this incident he was also shot in the leg however he will survive after Mr Swann shot and killed the police chief and and the other police officer from officer Sharon ghost he then again was eluding looting law enforcement he was able to carjack a victim so essentially he stole a vehicle by force and he started to drive that vehicle around and now we have not just the felony probation violation but we now have you know a homicide of a police officer so now police officers are absolutely going to chase and pursue and get this guy in custody so he's running from police in the vehicle there's a obviously a authorized vehicle Pursuit at some point Mr Swan crashes the car and he starts to run again he starts to run into a wooded area once he gets to that wooded area and kind of as he's running away he again starts shooting at police officers luckily he misses but the police are able to fire back and they do shoot and they do kill him um so again this ended with the Mr Swan being being killed he was the offender uh Chief McIntyre was also killed and then officer Sharon ghost um he he is injured but he will recover and just just one one thing that I one other thing that I want to say about this is you know it's even in small towns and smaller places it's extremely rare for a chief of police to be involved in active police work trying to get bad guys into custody taking felons to Jail uh being a part of an actual active Chase usually police Chiefs either are in their office because they just want to be an executive and they're in their office or they just legitimately have so much business of running a police department and Community meetings that they physically just don't have the time or the ability to go out in the field so the fact that Chief McIntyre was out there with the troops working for him actively trying to take a bad guy into custody that shows what good of a chief and what good of a leader he was um he will be missed and the thoughts go out to everyone there and the Brackenridge Pennsylvania uh police department let's see if we have any comments on this case maybe we have some people who are local who maybe have some more information on this let's see no other okay I don't have any comments on that so if you do definitely go ahead and put them in there but um I know that there's a GoFundMe set up for um his his family and um again that's uh the Bracken Ridge Police Department it was Chief Justin McIntyre uh so again that was not a good way to start the year and we had another case that happened on New Year's Eve that was also just a really strange way to start the year so this happened in New York city so as everyone knows you know right around Times Square it's all pretty much locked off and blocked off where they let tens of thousands of people in to Times Square for New Year's Eve and that there's a security perimeter there's a fence around it there's you have to be searched as you go in well not only do as you can imagine not only this area is so busy not only do police departments have an inner perimeter around actual Times Square but they have kind of an Outer Perimeter to help with traffic control and pedestrians and also for General security measures that are just outside of Times Square and that's where this incident happen so what happened was um just um on New Year's Eve there's an individual he's a 19 year old named Trevor Bickford from Wells Maine and unprovoked he didn't have any contact with police officers priorities he had a machete and he essentially ran up behind three police officers and started hitting them and stabbing them with the machete he was able to stab all three police officers now I'm just going to put it out there all three police officers were injured but they're going to survive so that's a good thing there one of the police officers during this completely unprovoked just crazy machete attack was able to fire off around and did hit Mr Bickford in his shoulder um he is not deceased he did survive he's going to have serious injuries however once he recovers from those injuries and he's out of the hospital he's going to be facing some serious attempted murder charges in New York City and hopefully he'll be spending the next several decades in prison now this wasn't necessarily a random thing from Mr Big effort so again he's only 19 years old and some little more information about him is that his family members actually contacted the feds in the last couple months because he had been radicalized by uh the Islamic extremists so he was really into this is Islamic extremist um ideology and his family was so concerned that they did contact the Fed so I mean you know we don't have thought crime here in the United States so just having bad ideas you know that isn't something that you can be arrested for unless you take active steps you know in furtherance of those ideas but he was on the radar at least someone in the federal government who had these ideas also before he did this it almost seems like it was a suicide by cop Mission because he did write essentially what was a suicide note and in this note he wrote out what he was going to do that he was going to attack police officers and also he it seems like he expected to be shot and killed by police which if you're going to go around stabbing police officers that's a reasonable expectation from that behavior right it's like if you steal a taser from a cop like expect them to use lethal Force against you I mean if you take a machete and you start stabbing police officers you would expect them to respond with lethal Force that's reasonable so in this letter that he wrote prior to doing this attack he spelled out kind of like a will where he all of the things that he wanted to go to his inheritance he put in there who should get what so this seems like this was a uh this seems like it was a um a suicide by cop Mission um so and again he is in the hospital he is recovering but this happened in New York City right outside of Times Square so it's good that the that um you know this didn't happen where anyone was killed um but three police officers did sustain some injuries all right so let's see if we have any comments about any of these cases that we've gone over so far uh no comments we have someone from Australia welcome in uh also want to welcome in uh okay Red's General District Court so someone said something uh uh Norman Jones says are cops any better than I am not really sure what the context is so Norman Jones um if you want to put some more context in that maybe we will maybe we'll understand what you're talking about we can go back and forth but it seems like Red's General District Court was trying to go back and forth I also want to welcome Lou skunked from Myrtle Beach want to welcome I want to welcome you guys in uh let's see the milkman's kit says off topic why can a bail bonds person have the word officer on their badge um that's that's a really good question so I I think when it comes to milkman's kids so let's think about this myself you would think that every state has different laws when it comes to you know what Bail Bonds people can do every staple have different laws around it and it isn't so much that the word officer is written anywhere it's more are you doing things that would make people think that you're a police officer so if you're a bail bonds person whether you have the word officer or not not if you are doing things to impersonate a police officer that's when you're going to want to follow the law that's when you're going to get in trouble Simply Having the word officer probably not because if you think about it private security officers who have you know maybe work at a hospital or work protecting a bank you know they literally have no um uh no power from the government no powers of arrest um but you know if they still have the word officer security officer most of the time so I think you have to think about it this way it's not just the word officer that could be problematic but it's you know are they pretending to be an actual government law enforcement officer a certified police officer that is where they are going to have trouble uh let's see uh uh Julia Hewitt says as an old retired cop they hate having to take a life it haunts you uh yes absolutely no police officer I've said this multiple times there are no police officers out there who are looking to get into a shooting and to take another human life absolutely there are are no police officers who think that way uh let's see the milkman's kid I was referring to the video that came out from Arizona a guy was arrested for impersonating but his badge was apparently okay yeah so milkman's kid I think that's um pretty much along uh the same thing so um that's actually a video that we posted here on on Cops and cons so definitely make sure you go back and watch it if you if you haven't haven't already but yeah so that's a security officer and again it wasn't just the ward officer it was more a totality of the circumstances of impersonating a police officer that got him in trouble and that will get anyone in trouble because even though state laws are a little bit different uh when it comes to this you know if you are impersonating a police officer if you're trying to pull people over things like that you're going to run to follow the law and get in trouble absolutely okay so those were the first two cases that I wanted to talk about and again they weren't they weren't great cases for law enforcement we had we had a police chief killed on the second and then we had three New York City police officers that were stabbed on New Year's Eve so not a great start for uh 2023 when it comes to law enforcement um again last year was the most deadly year for for police officers I believe there were 64 police officers shot in the line in the line of duty um so it is it is a definitely a dangerous time for police officers out there so the next case I want to talk about is pretty much the biggest case of the week so this is the case that everybody's talking about if anybody listens to Nancy Grace not sure if you do but obviously people like Nancy Grace this is absolutely all anybody is going to be talking about and it's the Moscow Idaho case so again we talked about it a little bit last week but even last week I said you know we really haven't gotten into it a whole lot because there there wasn't a lot that was known and the only thing that I said last week and before that is that there was the family of the victim so you understand have to be unbelievably just upset and Confused hey I can't even imagine the range of emotions that they might be going through but some of them did Express their displeasure with law enforcement and the only thing that I cautioned kind of while this was going on the last six and a half to seven weeks is that it's very likely that the police because not only did they have the local police but also State Police they had FBI they had the feds involved so it's very possible that just because the police aren't telling the family everything or aren't telling the media everything they likely know a lot more than they're letting on and that's and that ended up being the absolute case because you can imagine that if they have a suspect in mind and they do have a suspect in mind he's been arrested but apparently this individual was a suspect within two weeks of this story coming out of these murders happening so again everyone remembers this happened about seven weeks in Moscow Idaho there were four college students who lived in an off-campus rental house and they were killed while they they were sleeping this happened right around four o'clock in the morning and four of them were stabbed in the home now a couple interesting things is that the house actually had six people living there so there were two other people who lived on the bottom floor who weren't injured or harmed or anything by the individual who killed the other four um so that was one of the things that you know was kind of you know how could I mean reasonable people were asking the question how could you how could four people be killed in a house and the other two roommates were present they were home but they didn't know what was happening so let's talk about this suspect a little bit his name is Brian coburger he's a 28 year old PhD student and he's studying Criminal Justice at Washington State University um I I A lot of people are playing up the parts that he has a master's degree in criminal justice and then he was a student who was you know in a PhD program um over at Washington state for criminal justice so a lot of people have just put a lot of stake into that and I'm gonna say I I don't think it's actually that relevant really the only interesting thing about his educational background is that one of his professors from his master's program over at Desales the Sal University the only thing interesting about his educational resume is that one of his professors was Dr Catherine ramsland and Dr ramslin is a famed forensic psychologist she's an author she's a professor but after Dennis Rader the BTK killer buying torture kill after he was finally arrested I believe back in 2006 and convicted um the professor ramsland was able to start a letter writing campaign pain with him where I shouldn't say campaign essentially a letter writing correspondence with him she got to know him and the two of them actually wrote a book together and she did multiple interviews with him so she was a forensic psychologist but that's kind of how she became famous is her ability to connect with some of these just awful serial killers and really exploring why they do what they do so the fact that he happened to be one of the students in her class that's really the most interesting thing about his education and you know I mean what what I also want to say is this is there's just been some just really juvenile reporting about this in in the news Newsweek said that that Brian kohlberger was trying to commit the perfect crime which is absolutely ridiculous listen Brian coburger he's not a master criminal he's not he's not a a brilliant scholar he's a creepy incel who just happened to take extra college classes because he didn't want to get into the real world and have a real job let's stop pretending that he's Hannibal Lecter okay it's absolutely insane now there was a 19 page arrest warrant affidavit that came out yesterday which essentially was 19 Pages some of it was redacted but it really gave us the public a real key into what was part of the law enforcement um investigation so how did they how did they catch this guy and they caught him you know 2300 miles away I believe in Pennsylvania over at his parents house or some somewhere on the East Coast but you know over 2 000 miles away he was arrested how did they find out he was the he was the suspect how did they catch on to him so quickly that's what's interesting about this and uh I'm gonna I read the 19 page report and you know you can read different different accounts where they're going to go through there but there were a couple things that were interesting to me so um what was strange is that before he went home his father flew out from the East Coast all the way to Washington State and then drove that white Hyundai Elantra drove with Brian coburger the over 2000 miles back home now I I don't know about you but when I was 28 years old my dad wasn't flying out to me and driving with me uh and driving with me uh 2 000 miles now I live about 1300 miles away from my hometown so when I have traveled home I've driven I've driven by myself that isn't uh that isn't uh that big of a deal and you know I mean this 2 000 mile ride I just got to say that that Spotify playlist just must have been a rager it just had to be wild what these two were listening to and you have to think is that why a reasonable question would ask is is that why the dad went out because again it's not normal for a dad to fly across the country to drive with his almost 30 year old son back home um or maybe they were listening to a bunch of a true kind of True Crime podcast you know maybe they even calling into shows that were you know talking about this case which is which I I think he was trying to insert himself into the investigation other ways and I'll get to that in a second but you know during so is the reason why the dad flew out is because he knew that something happened knew something was going on and that's why he did that that's a reasonable question to ask and that's that's pretty interesting also two different times during this 2000 mile trip they were pulled over and it was initially reported that the FBI was tracking the vehicle which is completely reasonable I mean because he was already a suspect in this case the police were gathering additional evidence the idea that the feds are Undercovers or someone was watching their movements as they drove across the country that's a very reasonable thing that 100 likely happened but they were pulled over twice by local police officers and the initial reporting is that the FBI told local police to go ahead and do a traffic stop because they wanted police to see what Brian coburger looked like or they wanted to see if he had cuts on his hands so as soon as I saw this reported I thought this is I thought this is absolutely nuts this doesn't make any sense here's why first of all if you're trying to track someone across the country and you have Undercovers there the last thing that you're going to do is to draw any kind of attention to yourself listen if you're tracking Brian coburger on a 2000 Mile Drive and the thing to do if you don't want to draw attention to yourself if you don't want to have him have any idea that he's a suspect what the last thing you would do is to do unnecessary law enforcement contacts again that just doesn't make any sense and one of the not trying to disparage Small Time cops but here we have probably the biggest active murder case mass murder case in the entire country the federal government is behind this thing and you're telling me that the feds are going to risk all of that by some random Hancock County Indiana cop pulling them over on a traffic stop and having small talk you really think that's what the feds are going to do I mean to me that just seems absolutely insane and a couple other things the so one of them wasn't Hancock Indiana and unless this police officer is like you know the best actor or or something like that unless he's like uh unless he's a Hollywood actor playing a police officer like you could tell by that interaction you could watch that body Cam that that police officer was not trying to hold anything back right so listen there's some police officers who have great poker faces and those guys and gals they go undercover and they do a great job me I would never be able to go undercover because I would just laugh okay no one would ever buy drugs from me so you know being in a position where you have to like lie about stuff especially on a traffic stop that isn't that reasonable to think they're gonna do also if you look at how that Hancock Indiana cop he didn't go to the driver's side so if you're at the driver's side Brian Coburg was the one driving the car if you go to the actual driver's side you're probably going to have a better view of Mr coburger but he didn't do that he went to the passenger side which is a common thing that police officers do during traffic stops because it's a lot of times safer to be on the passenger side especially if you stop on a highway so again to me that seems ridiculous even on the Reasonable Doubt podcast with Adam Carolla and famed attorney Mark garagos they'll listen to all the time even earlier this week Mark garagos was talking about how the the FBI had a had had local police do a pre-textual stop and that that traffic stop might not have been legal if they were just trying to get other information and I'm listening to this podcast I'm thinking Mark you know better there's no way this is what the feds will do well since then it came out that the federal government has denied asking local law enforcement to do it I mean what you have to realize is that on a 2 000 mile trip um you're probably going to get stopped by police they happen to be stopped twice where they were stopped they were stopped two times you know pretty close to each other so um uh it just seems like whatever jurisdiction in Indiana that they were driving through you know they had officers or some type of a traffic rant out there where they were looking for Speeders and one time they were following too closely all right so I went on for a little while about that case or some of my thoughts let's see what some of you all thought about this um my enemy the FB yeah I definitely wouldn't want to Spook him my enemy thank you so much that is my 100 my exact point so if you're like literally putting all these crazy resources and I know the federal government is a lot of money but if you're putting all these resources and all these man hours out there trying to you know essentially solve and apprehend like the most wanted person in the country you're gonna risk all that by having some random County Deputy make contact with someone unnecessarily and again what would they be trying to find they're already tracking him right they already know where he is like what information would they be trying to find they want to see what his hands look like listen the technology that police have at some point they're going to stop at a gas station they're going to stop for food as soon as Mr coburger gets out of the vehicle that's when they can use their different cameras and lenses and and binoculars to see at that point what his hands look like if there's any scratches or marks on the hands the last thing you would do is have purpose contact with a law enforcement officer who was not trained in undercover tactics again that makes absolutely no sense um that makes absolutely no sense for them to be able to do um let's see uh Michael Fisher says from a former law enforcement officer the relationship between local agencies and the FEDS are not on the level for them to call an agency and request a stop of this kind Michael Fisher yeah I think that I think that's completely reasonable so um I like what you did with that Michael because you have to think about it it's like so okay here you have so you know that Brian Coburg and his dad you know they're driving you probably have an idea of where they're going but do you know exactly what time they're going to be a specific place so the idea just the logistics behind the feds calling local police or having a contact with a local police officer again it doesn't make any sense so logistically it's just kind of silly if the feds do want to do a traffic stop they're going to do it themselves they're going to have State Police they're going to have a whole Tactical Team they're going to do something like that but again he wasn't arrested on this traffic stop he didn't even get a ticket so there was literally literally no legitimate the on the plus side on the positive side like the the pros there's no Pros that could actually come from a traffic stop but the cons of him thinking oh they're on to me like the thought of that in Brian coburger's Head like that is a huge con so again there's no reason the feds would do this Michael Fisher my enemy I'm glad that you all agree Miss Ellie I totally agree uh those traffic cops were not aware who they had pulled over if they did uh there would be three other cops taking selfies with him uh yeah okay uh also uh cage and Randy uh they consistently make unnecessary contact with anybody and everybody okay on the Cajun Randy yes okay unnecessary contact fine I'll do that but so what I hope you agree Cajun Randy that the feds you know weren't purposely trying to have him do this also let's think about it this way here we have someone who again he's you know the Most Wanted killer in America arguably right I mean he just killed four people there was a Manhunt no one knew who who did it for six or seven seven weeks so he's the most Wanted killer um in the entire country and you're gonna have one police officer go ahead and make contact with him you're not going to have a whole team you're not going to have a Tactical Team um if you know that this is Brian coburger um who just committed four murders you're thinking hey this guy's not gonna want to go to jail even though he didn't use a handgun um hey guns are so easy to get it's not unreasonable to think that a 28 year old man can't get a firearm if they really wanted to so you would think that you know you wouldn't have just one police officer approach that it would be multiple police officers so um again if the feds did and they didn't but if the feds did have local police do this they're basically send them into an almost a suicide mission with like a wanted violent Maniac um who may not probably doesn't want to go to jail and just letting him walk up to the car like a traffic stop again that's nuts that makes absolutely no sense Casey Randy they knew they just didn't say it the occasion Randy no um so I mean yeah this would be the equivalent of like the feds asking Barney 25 to taking into taking in a violent Maniac all by himself it doesn't make any sense um uh let's see Michelle yes the police were in danger that day for sure and Miss Ellie listen if anything once the traffic stop happened what the feds should have done at that point if anything is you know call the local agency and say hey we're tracking this guy this guy's dangerous and back up you know so you would think of anything maybe the fans on the back and the FEDS on the back end would do that to try to warn local police officers who again obviously had no idea who they were contacting with um let's see occasion Randy this is known uh this this clown was a wannabe Jack the Ripper uh but not nearly as smart a hundred percent occasion I agree with you 100 he absolutely wasn't that's kind of why I said earlier that you know Newsweek did a whole story about how he's this PhD student and he's trying to commit the perfect crime and this is like some clinical and academic uh exercise that he was trying to do no he's again he's not a brilliant criminal he's not a master scholar he's just a lonely annoying irritating incel who didn't have any friends and he was awkward and um yeah he not this master criminal he's not Hannibal Lecter uh let's see um yes so uh yeah so I mean some of the other things that that were interesting that that came out um that came out during the some of the things that came out during this 19 page thing and and I'm gonna say this next part and I'm gonna agree it doesn't make any sense and it's a little frustrating because we definitely need some more information all right so what we what what they said is that um one of the other remember I said there were six roommates who live there two of them weren't harmed well what was actually in the 19 page document is that one of the other female roommates that at about 4 17 a.m um she did hear something at first she thought was one of the the females who died she thought that it was the sounds of her playing with her dog um so she opened her the door to her room and she essentially saw who ended up being Brian coburger standing there he was standing in the hall he was walking towards her and he had on a mask um she described him as uh being a male being a thin but not muscular athletic build but not muscular um and she actually saw him inside the house so um he didn't hurt her he just left so I mean that doesn't make any sense well again here's what doesn't make sense after that so here she has she hears some kind of commotion she thinks maybe it's her roommate playing with the dog she goes out and she looks and there's some guy she doesn't know leaving her house at four something in the morning who's creepy and he's wearing a mask okay so at that point what a reasonable person might do is one of two things either you call police and you say hey there was a commotion in the house and some guy with a mask just left I'm blocking myself in my room but holy we need help or you go and check on your roommate right it seems like most people would do either of those things but she didn't do either and we don't know why so again it's frustrating because we don't know the answer to these questions because it seems like she just went back to sleep the reason reason I say this is because police officers actually weren't called to the scene until around noon so it was like eight hours later that police officers actually got there now this is just me speculating this is not knowing any any extra information just knowing the information that we have what it seems like to me is that we know that this was a party house we know that at least you know all the at least most of the individuals in the house um had gone out and they were partying the night before they were different parties and bars and stuff like that so is it possible that here we are at four o'clock in the morning and that you know someone who is intoxicated maybe really intoxicated here's something they they go out and they're kind of in like a groggy State and they don't they don't fully realize because what I'm saying is that you know a reasonable person would either check on the roommates or call police well if you're really if you're you know 21 22 years old and you're drunk and you're groggy and you're woken up and it's four o'clock in the morning the idea that you're going to be in that category of a reasonable person yeah just isn't a thing so so um that's probably what happened that would be my guess my guess is that she wasn't and obvi obviously there's no there's no nothing nefarious going on but my my guess is the reason she didn't check on anyone is because maybe she wasn't sure if it was real and didn't realize it until you know noon when they woke up and they found four dead bodies that this was actually a thing that happened so those are some of my thoughts on why she didn't call um I'm curious what you think about that so why don't you go ahead and put that in the chat also um and less of a question I think this one is more obvious but I'm going to go into it anyways okay well why didn't Brian coburger why didn't he kill her right I mean he already killed four people what's a fifth so my thoughts on this and listen let me know if you disagree my thoughts on this are that well he already killed four people and he's on his way out now now it's not easy to kill anyone but if you have four people who are sleeping stabbing them to death is much easier than someone who is up walking around and awake so my guess is that Brian coburger either he killed who the one target was who he wanted to kill or at this point he's on his way out he knew that he pretty much just got away with killing four people and if he was going to try to kill this this other roommate that because she's awake and not asleep that it was going to be a fight it was going to be a fight it was going to be a struggle that might attract the attention of even more roommates maybe at that point um other other neighbors might call that might get the police involved so um that's my thought is that either the target was already killed or it was that he was on his way out maybe he was injured and um maybe he was injured and it just would the juice essentially the juice wouldn't have been worth the squeeze is that it would have drawn unnecessary attention to him and his the likelihood that he would be apprehended um would greatly increase if he did something to um a person who was awake because it obviously would have been a lot louder um um than than stabbing for people who are sleeping okay so let's see what uh thinks uh questions about this uh Michael Fisher I'm not entirely surprised I've had numerous investigations that involve College age persons and the lack of Common Sense is frightening yeah Michael I think that's absolutely correct so um yeah 100 so um yeah not only could there be a lack of of common sense but again now now you're talking about four o'clock in the morning someone who is intoxicated maybe really drunk maybe not this is just my that's just my speculation maybe really drunk and also maybe in and out of sleep so I mean uh imagine what it's like being 21 years old you know drunk out of your mind asleep you wake up you see this and not making a reasonable decision like it almost makes sense why you wouldn't make a reasonable Common Sense decision under those circumstances that's the only thing I can think of there's literally no other reason why a normal good person a conscientious person wouldn't check on roommates or call for police um at that point let's see uh Miss Ellie the Survivor now has to live with that the rest of her life with the nightmare of what happened yeah and I don't I don't envy ND hurdle I think that I'm I'm sure I'm sure that there is a great um guilt there from the person who survived who didn't call police but again it's likely that it was reasonable she didn't call police because my guess is that she was in a state where she didn't fully um comprehend what was going on uh let's see any other comments on this oh well thank you all for your comments on that case um yeah we will we will see what happens um but he is not um so he is not fighting extradition back to Idaho so he's back in Idaho he's going to be facing charges there of course his defense attorneys are saying that you know he is he is he is presumed to be innocent which is a hundred percent true absolutely that's true that he's presumed to be in a sense uh and also um that he looks forward to his day in court uh attorneys have to say that if an attorney didn't say that um they wouldn't be doing their job because everybody deserves aggressive representation no matter what crime they are suspected of committing so um we'll definitely keep track of this case it should be interesting going forward uh no other comments on that case all right so this case is I mean this case this next case I'm going to talk about it happened this week in Louisiana and I can't even explain irritated isn't the word I just I just can't I I I I I can't even say how upset I am with this case um what happened was is this happened in Addis Addis Louisiana there's a police officer named David Cochran um and he just got charged with two counts of negligent homicide here's what happened so there was an individual named tyquel Zanders tyquel xanders he went over to his family's house um he broke into the house he stole keys to the car and he stole the car so essentially he stole a family member's car now those of us who've been police officers you know that stealing a car is a felony right like that's technically a felony offense I think you also know that there is a huge difference between people who break into and steal random cars as someone who takes the keys from a family member so when you take the keys from a family member yes it's technically a stolen vehicle they can go ahead and press charges but if you get the vehicle back most of the time family members don't even want to prosecute whoever took it and really a lot of times it's more like embezzlement like you know they had the vehicle they were supposed to return it by six but they didn't and you know well they yeah they live with me and the keys are here I don't lock up the keys and sometimes they take the car to go to the grocery store so nothing that's exactly what happened here but again I hope we can all acknowledge that a stolen car yes it is a felony it's a serious crime but it's a property crime and also the circumstances matter if you steal a car from a family member most of the time when you recover the car the family is not going to want to press charges so yes as opposed to keep that in mind so as a police officer you have this felony crime of auto theft but in the back of your mind if you have any experience you know okay if we get this person into custody you know how many resources are we going to devote like the family probably isn't going to prosecute so what happened on this case is that police officers were able to locate the vehicle that Mr Sanders was driving and they got into a police pursuit with him essentially they get into a high-speed car chase at one point the speeds of the police officer got up to 110 miles an hour now I'm going to say right there this is absolutely problematic okay chasing cars for a property crime especially a quasi-auto theft is absolutely ridiculous and here's why it's not that I want criminals to get away or I want people to steal cars or I want to make it a sanctuary City for criminals that isn't the intent at all the reason is because police Pursuits are unbelievably dangerous not only for the offender not only for the officer but for the general public normal reasonable people who are going about their day going to school going to work that is who is most at risk when there is a police chase and yes the argument can be made well someone just committed a felony and they're fleeing you know they might drive they might drive like and drive Reckless anyway absolutely but I think we can all agree that when these people who've committed a felony and don't want to be apprehended when they're being chased by police officers they're going to drive more like than if there's no police officers behind them all right so um while police officers are chasing Mr xanders um the police officer David Catherine he's uh Witnesses said that he ran multiple red lights um as he's going through which police are allowed to do but listen what you have to do as a police officer is you have lights and Sirens that isn't a license that isn't an authority to just blow through intersections essentially the way you should look at it is when you go to an intersection and you have your lights and sirens on you're essentially asking permission from everyone else it's still the responsibility of the police officer to get to the intersection and make sure it's clear once it's clear absolutely then you can go through that intersection with lights and Sirens you know if it's within Department policy but the idea that you can just turn on your lights and sirens and drive like a bat out of hell through intersections is absolute nuts there is no law no policy or common sense that would allow a police officer to do that so what happened in this case is Witnesses said that the police officer blew multiple red lights not came up to the intersection cleared it and then went through but blew multiple red lights well he got to one red light and at this point he was doing 86 miles an hour and he T-boned someone innocent people two teenage girls cheerleaders a 16 year old and a 17 year old and they were killed immediately one of the one of the teenagers had a had a younger brother who was in the car and the officer seriously injured him as well um so the officer was charged with um the next day the officer was charged with two counts of negligent homicide um xanders the the original person who fled from police um what he did is at some point he brought the vehicle back to his family's house so essentially all of this was for nothing bad guy brought the car back to his family's house anyway so um a lot of conversation about well you know is it the police officer's fault is it the bad guy's fault you know I've got the answer to that it's both it's both of their faults one if you run from a police officer and if there's a crash later on yeah you're going to be hit with some kind of a felony charge and he was so he was charged with two counts the the Xander the individual who ran from police he was charged with two counts of manslaughter and if this the teenage boy hopefully he doesn't pass away but if he passes away it'll be a third count of manslaughter plus he's facing a vehicle theft charges um home invasion charges aggravated the fling of a law enforcement officer so he's got a ton of charges but the police officer himself he is also charged with two counts of of of negligent homicide at this point and you know I put this uh I did a story about this that I I I I put on on my uh Tick Tock in YouTube earlier this week talking about this case and you know there were actually a lot of people who were in support of the officer um who said you know the officer you know people shouldn't be allowed to run that uh you know it's a hundred percent on the fault of the bad guy who ran and I'm gonna say that is absolutely the wrong way to think about this because as a police officer you should not be chasing a car if the conditions are not safe first of all I think a lot of police departments have policies that say Hey cops these are the only crimes that you can go ahead and Chase for and if it's not one of those and even if it is one of those crimes let me go through them in a second but even if it is one of those crimes the weather the traffic conditions everything has to be safe otherwise we're going to call up the chase so a lot of departments the crimes that police officers can get into authorized vehicle Pursuits for are typically homicide criminal sexual assaults armed robbery aggravated assault and battery and kidnapping so those are typically the five cases also if someone is driving like or driving recklessly before police officers engage so let's say someone's driving on the wrong side of the road um or so that's some someone's driving on the wrong side of the highway and they're driving the wrong side on the highway pulled before police officers are involved yeah because the driving was Reckless before police got involved police a lot of times can go ahead and Chase that car as well so what you don't want is for someone who commits again in auto theft or shoplifting a misdemeanor domestic violence who's leaving the scene in the vehicle and they're driving normal okay not putting anyone in danger then police officers get behind start chasing the car and now they're doing 85 miles an hour um running running red lights literally putting everybody else in danger so police can't have that happen Okay so you have to ask yourself well what can police do if someone runs I mean you don't want this to be a third world country where police officers have no power where anyone who just wants to run from police can no you're right we don't want that so but it's a balancing act just like with anything there's no black and white this is gray all of this is gray area and that's where good policy and good discussion good debate come in in individual communities when police departments are not only creating policy but also training for police officers so um they this is the it's just an unbelievable case and that um I I think it's a hundred percent appropriate for the police officer to be charged um as a my feelings on this are um my feelings on this are pretty strong I'm gonna see what some of you what some of you say uh let's see um in my uh Missy Ellie in my state our police Union band police chases due to the danger to police and civilians those Road spikes they make police throw down have killed so many people uh that police must stop that see uh Randall Lewis our department had a very strict Chase policy Randall Lewis uh said even then the Chase had to be approved by a sergeant or above Randall Lewis um I'm curious what do you think about that um I to me that's good again um to me it's good that the police department has policies like that a strict Chase policy you can only Chase for these specific violent crimes and then only if it's safe to do so and then obviously as soon as you start chasing a car you have to let dispatch know so Supervisor has to ultimately make the call whether okay like I was gonna say what can you again you don't want to put it out there in the community hey if you run from us yep we're not going to stop you guys just go ahead you don't have to stop if you want it's more like we're we're asking permission can we please stop your car no you don't want a police department that doesn't have any teeth so what can police departments do if people decide to run well they can do a couple things and I know when I say this the first thing people are going to comment on comment anyway but the first thing that people are going to say is that's not realistic in the department that I work for it's not realistic in the jurisdiction we don't have these options but a lot of police departments do so I'm saying if you have these options here's what you should do a lot of police departments especially uh mid-sized to larger police departments have air support so as soon as there's a Chase of of a felony once air support gets in the area air support is primary on that call so air support follows the vehicle until it stops until the people go in and then whatever house that they end up going into at some point that's when you have if it's a serious and a felony that's when you have police officers or the Tactical Team go and try to execute an arrest at that point and that essentially avoids a high-speed chase also you can have undercover officers a lot of departments have have narcs they have gang units they have undercover officers who are in unmarked Vehicles who you would never know that they were police officers so if you have someone who committed a crime like a stolen vehicle or something like that you can have undercover officers in unmarked Vehicles not Chase but follow because again just like with air support they could say okay the vehicle is going northbound on Second Street we're going right on uh uh right on Coors and you know that they they can essentially say where the vehicle is going at any time and because they're unmarked Vehicles there is just no indication there is no indication um that the individual the offender would know that police are behind them because that's typically when people start to drive dangerous and put the rest of the community in danger when they're running from police so again I know not it's not realistic stick for every police department but look at it this way so the agency that that I that I was a part of you know is a town of about 500 000 people about a thousand cops so not a huge Police Department I think we were like the 26th or 27th biggest Police Department in the country somewhere around there and you know we had air support um one of our neighboring agencies had had air support and there were five six seven other communities around us that if they needed our air support that our air support would go and help so yes a smaller town might not have it but it's very reasonable that State Police or a larger Department might be able to help out especially if it's a serious felony um I'm curious what other people might think about police chases and again Randall Lewis thank you for putting that in there uh motor jock 744 uh you are correct every officer has the responsibility to use do caution my former Department had a strict Pursuit policy pretty much if deadly force could be used we could pursue um oh motor jock 744 I I agree with you 100 percent and um yeah there is there is you know one of the first things that I learned from one of my field training officers is that um you know if we're in a Pursuit if we get into a Pursuit like there's nothing wrong with you getting on the air and saying hey this is unsafe and calling it out yourself he said you know no one's gonna go into briefing tomorrow and give you about it because you called off a Pursuit because you felt it that it wasn't safe he's like you know what no one cares maybe that was how it was with Andy sipowicz on NYPD Blue in the 90s if you called out a Chase but even back in the early 2000s that wasn't the mentality um I've never heard anyone be criticized for being too safe and for trying to avoid um avoid um uh police collisions I worked in I worked in a a kind of a a motor type units where all we did is do traffic stops all day when all you do is traffic stops all day people run from you every single night so people ran from me every single night yes it's irritating it's incredibly frustrating but when someone starts to run they start to run red lights um it just isn't worth it uh let's see um let's see if we have any other questions here Randall Lewis says uh okay good I'm glad you like that Pursuit policy I worked in the city of the Flint Michigan area okay that I think that's a high crime area so you probably have people run all the time Mr Lewis uh let's see um uh Missy Ellie says uh we see cops chase people to death every day on the media in movies they call them uh they are uh there's cameras there's too much civilian death in the United States yeah I I agree 100 oh motor jock um unmarked units were prohibited from participating in any way in a Pursuit and Moto Jack I think that's good so I think what I was saying um just just to make sure um uh you know and I think one of the things we always have to ask is what would officer Estrada and chips do whatever officer Estrada would do I think that has to be the best uh best practices out there but um yeah so motor jock what I was saying when it comes to when it comes to uh unmarked is that not to use them to chase um or to pursue but if you needed them for surveillance to keep an eye on the vehicle you know while the individual is you know maybe going into a house or an apartment so you know where they are um definitely 100 motor jockey 100 right definitely not as um definitely not as part of the as part of the actual Pursuit but um for surveillance I think it's reasonable for police departments to do some times uh Randalls we never chase motorcycles absolutely well first of all it's dangerous to chase a motorcycle in you're not going to catch them so it's pretty much pointless and it's really dangerous um uh to chase a motorcycle for the actual motorcycle rider uh let's see uh Pepe Pepe says uh uh that uh uh chips officer strata he would remove his shirt absolutely um so so yeah so that's that's the case like I I feel pretty strongly about these um police police chase police chases that are unnecessary again sometimes so okay so for example let me compare and contrast the first case we had with the individual in a Brackenridge Pennsylvania you had an individual who killed a police officer he shot another police officer he got into a vehicle and he started to go he started to run from police so that is a case where yes police officers they need to do a pit maneuver they need to chase they need to get that person off the street as soon as possible because when you have someone who is actively shooting at law enforcement you can imagine that and they just carjack someone that's a different thing that is a level of seriousness where again I think it was um someone said on here that unless it's life or death you're not going to chase them that's life or death you have someone who just killed someone and they're trying to flee that's life or death that is someone please have to stop at all costs there's no question about that um again someone who steals a vehicle from their family um again we know that's a case anyways do not Chase for that it's absolutely nuts uh Randall let's see uh we had a lieutenant chasing a motorcycle one evening and he ran over the kid when he put his bike down the LT was not charged uh that's that's surprising don't know how long ago that was but um Randall I think if that happened today and a lot of jurisdictions uh that said the young man died and a lot of jurisdictions we would see the places officer be charged for that I I believe uh let's see uh Andy Guam says that cops and cons cover SB 960. okay so um let's see SB 960 uh let's see so this is um uh SB 960 uh let me read it real quick uh public employment it says uh this law maintains that police officers including trainees be legally authorized to work in the United States while abiding with federal laws and regulations SB 960 will however remove the requirement that police officers be citizens or permanent residents of the United States um that's interesting I hadn't heard about that yet and um yeah so um I'm going to look into that so um Andy thank you so much I'm not all that familiar with that besides what I just read there so I'm going to look into that this week and I'll definitely get to it next week I'm gonna do a little bit of research I'm gonna see what exactly it is what are some of the consequences if it's a federal law um what are some of the states doing on their side to deal with this um have we had any applicants come in of people who who aren't citizens um so I've got some initial thoughts on that but um I'd really like to learn a little bit more about this law before I I talk about it in detail so um thank you for bringing that up we'll definitely hit it definitely hit it next week all right so the uh well the last case I want to talk about is um so this is a case that it it could have gone really really bad and luckily it didn't um this happened on New Year's Eve this is an Atlanta Falcons practice player so he's essentially part of the Atlanta Falcons team but he's on their practice squad which you know I'm my sports are baseball and then basketball football is kind of my third sport but my understanding is that if you're on the practice squad you're essentially one step up from being on the actual NFL team but you're still a part of the organization so his name is Cameron Batson and he is part of the Atlanta Falcons practice squad he's a player on there so on New Year's Eve he went out um and he was speeding he was pulled over by a police officer once up police officer pulled him over the police officer saw some signs of intoxication and we know where this is going there was a DUI investigation uh trying to see if he was impaired there were standards field sobriety tests Mr Batson he was cooperative during this point he just didn't do so well um he didn't do so well on the field sobriety test at the end of it police officer decided to place him under arrest well at that point Mr Batson decided that the law and you know just tenants of basic human decency really didn't apply to him so he decided to fight the police officer he fought the police officer and he actually stole the officer's taser and I mentioned this earlier stealing an officer's taser there's a situation what happened in the Patrick Loyola case which happened in the Garrett Rolfe case a lot and there's other ones that we've covered on this channel too and other shows that if a police officer has their taser stolen from them and if the police officer reasonably thinks that the individual is going to use that taser on them that's a deadly force situation it just is um it's a deadly force situation and a lot of times that's how people get shot and public service announcement in an effort to save life and to have people not be shot by the place please do not steal a taser from any police officers um one thing really quick on NFL practice squads um uh the NFL teams can sign 16 players to their practice squad um the number recently jumped up from 12 after the 2020 season and these players can you know essentially be elevated to the actual um professional team at any point so um that that's kind of where he was at so definitely a member of the Atlanta Falcons organization so um Mr Batson he fought with the police officer he tried to steal he tried to steal the police officers taser at some point some Good Samaritans some random citizens saw what was happening basically jumped in there and helped the police officer and that did a couple things number one what that did is that got Mr Batson into custody which is good and also I mean that probably saved Mr Batson's life because again we see case after case of individuals who steal tasers from police officer and then the police officers end up shooting them reasonably which is the typically the appropriate level of force when someone steals your taser and you think that they might use it against you deadly force is 100 what is absolutely normal and and reasonable for a police officer to do so um someone someone uh Good Samaritans jumped in and like I said not only got Mr Batson into custody but probably saved his life um Mr Batson he was charged with aggravated assault battery removal of a weapon from a police officer and then fleeing a police officer as well so what's interesting is that when this initially happened there were a lot of players um there were a lot of players on the Atlanta Falcons and the official organization who initially said that you know hey we are we are standing behind Mr Batson and then the video came out and some more information came out and he was cut from the practice squad so um uh let's see um uh let's see there was a candidate for the Oakland Raiders um after he was cut by the okay so he was a uh actually a candidate for the Raiders as part of their organization before he went over to the Falcons um so yeah so he's facing all kinds of um felony felony charges he was he was cut from the team but um like I said the the goal and all of this is to preserve life so um he wasn't shot and killed by the police officer which I know I kind of said public service so now it's been kind of in a joking manner it's not funny it's not joking like if you steal a taser from a police officer they're probably going to shoot and kill you um so please don't do that um I know no one on here would but but I'm just think in in general um a lot of times situations like this end in a deadly force situation which we don't want to happen luckily that didn't happen hopefully Mr Batson um spend some time in jail and he gets some help so that's the last actual story that I'm gonna talk about today but I want to do a teaser for next week so um on on some of the some of the the my other social media and again you can go ahead and follow me over at police law news over on YouTube and Tech talk and sub stack but some of the I've been doing longer form content where I talk about officer involved shootings and I really do a deep dive into these shooting so last week I pretty much did a deep dive on the Patrick Loyola case um so go back and watch last week I do about 16 minute deep dive on the Patrick Loyola case and I answer questions and comments from from viewers like I love to do while I'm going through it while I was just recently asked by someone to investigate another case and I'm going to tease that and then I'm going to go ahead and do an in-depth next week but essentially this case and some people might be familiar with it it's the trooper Brian North case in Connecticut so just a short quick little thing that happened with this case is this happened in uh January of 20 um there was a vehicle chase a vehicle Pursuit once the vehicle once the vehicle crashed once the vehicle crashed um police officers including a Troop Connecticut state trooper Brian North he went and contacted uh the the driver of the vehicle and there was an officer involved shooting um uh Trooper North he is charged with first degree manslaughter and he is set to go to trial on the 23rd um uh I mean in February of 23. so one of the reasons why this came up is when this when I first heard about this case so you know earlier in 2022 spring of 22. you know I did a short video on it where I said I did not think that this was a lawful reasonable or Justified officer-involved shooting and I based that just on the body camera in dash cam however since then Trooper North has given a statement and some of the other witness officers that have also given statements so I was asked by someone to look at those statements in context and then say what I think so I've already started started writing it and started looking into it but I just want to put that in everyone's radar for next week so maybe we can go back and forth on it a little bit so again it's the trooper Brian North case um uh he shot and killed an individual named mulbaric solimani s-o-u-l-e-m-a-n-e uh back in Connecticut in um January of 20. so why don't you go and watch the body cam video of that and maybe read a little bit about it and let's let's plan to discuss it next week all right a couple more comments Randall says first time watching your show great job you have a new listener all right Randall Lewis thank you so much and I mean that's kind of what we like to do on here is yes this is like the number one police body cam Channel um we try to find Body cam but it's not the body cam footage that you see on a hundred other different channels but we really try to find the most interesting um and sometimes silly sometimes funny sometimes sometimes um just really um interesting body cam video from around the country and put that on the channel but then once a week we also like to talk about police news in cases and kind of go over um over some of the really interesting uh aspects of police work uh Missy Ellie you do a good service to the police it's nice to meet you oh thank you so much Miss Ellie that's nice uh motor jock uh first time listening really enjoyed your format we'll be back in hey I want to thank you so much I'm also a teaser for one of the videos we're going to do this week when it comes to body cam we have a porch pirate video dropping today at 2 p.m mountain time so um it's gonna be dropping here pretty soon it's an excellent video you guys you guys are gonna love it but that's gonna be our show um for for the for the week I want to appreciate everybody in and again thank you all for the interesting comments I love going back and forth and um again thank you so much for all the new listeners uh make sure you subscribe to the channel and even more importantly share it with your friends um as many people as we can get in here supporting the show we would really appreciate it and I hope that everyone has a great and safe weekend thank you
Danger Zone
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