push me into his body and start, you know, try to, you know, he kiss me twice in my mouth. >> Why did you lie to us earlier? Because we know that you lie when you said that nothing like this has ever been reported or happened. Correct. Why didn't you mention that earlier? >> Because I didn't think it was inappropriate on my side. >> Prior incidents that are kind of similar. Hispanic female 50s reports of kissing on the mouth. >> Not all respected doctors are as impeccable as we think they are. Some are involved in shady, unspeakable behavior. And when it comes to light, it turns into a national level scandal. >> Did you talk to her about touching and kissing and making each other feel good? >> I was playing with her. >> You talked to her about kissing her chest. You commented about her body looking pretty hot. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> I don't remember. >> And then you asked her that you wanted her to take your your her pants off also. >> You can you can take mine off if you want. Here are several unbelievable moments when respected doctors get caught in shocking scandals. Starting with Dr. Jose Jacob who left his patient worse off than when she arrived because he believed that his medical degree gave him a free pass to demand happy endings from his patients. >> So he start you know push my body into his body and start kissing me in my mouth just >> what happened me in push me into his body and start you know try to you know he kissed me twice in my mouth. had one report >> with this doctor. >> With this doctor, >> I don't think I did anything that would make someone cry. I was only trying to comfort her. >> On March the 24th, 2025, what began as a routine doctor's visit at a medical facility took a disturbing turn when a woman accused her physician of severe inappropriate [music] conduct during the exam. When police arrived at the scene, they were met by a patient who was still in shock, struggling to process what she had just gone through at the hands of a medical professional [music] whom she had trusted with her help. >> Hey, what's going on today? >> I had an appointment here with um Dr. >> Dr. Jacob. >> Okay. >> And um I had an appointment. He they called me in to check on to check on me because I was in the hospital because I had uh chest pains. >> Okay. when I had chest pain. So they told me to come here to make this I made an appointment to come and see him today. >> So I was in the room waiting for him. When he came in he you know he sat down. He told me what was wrong. He had sounded me and he told me that um that I had lint notes under my arms. So when he told me with who you live with I see I said I live with my son. Do you have a hus um a a husband? Your husband's working. I said no my husband's not work. Um, I'm not um I'm I'm single. You know, I'm separated. I told him I'm separated. He said, "Okay, but you had to find out. I'm going to give you some letters that I'm going I'm signing now to take to you to take it to the doctors because um you have lymph nodes under your arms." Under your arms. >> When he stand up, I was still sitting down, but when he stand up, he said, "Give me a hug." But I thought he was giving me a hug because um he they found some lip nodes under my arm and they don't know what it is. >> So he start you know push my body into his body and start kissing me in my mouth. >> What do you mean by kissing you m in your mouth? >> Kissing me >> like like a or is it like he was kiss me then? No like like you know kiss kissing trying to you know >> like [music] that. >> Yeah. >> Was it on your lips? Was it near your lip? on my lips. My lips. He tried to He did it twice, but he keep on He wanted to keep on doing it, but I was trying to get, you know, stay. >> When he told you when he told you to give him a hug, did you at any point [music] say, "No, I don't want a hug." >> No, but I thought because, you know, because what they found under my arm, I thought he felt sorry. >> That's [music] why I gave him a hug. You know, a hug, you know. >> So, you you gave him a hug back in that situation. >> Yeah. And that's a choice. And I I gave him a hug because I I thought, you know, because he found whatever he found under my arms. >> So that's why I, you know, I gave him a hug, you know, because he felt sorry. But but it was more than he felt sorry. He just >> pushed me in push me into his body and start, you know, try to, you know, he kissed me twice in my mouth and try to get kiss me more. >> Did you stand up to hug him? >> No, I was sitting down. >> Okay. So you main seating when he hugs you. >> No, I wait a minute. I will sit down when he tell me get give me a hug. I stand up. >> Okay, that's what that's >> okay. All right, if you'll hang tight out here, um we're going to go talk to him, kind of see what's going on cuz it it very well I'm not discrediting what you're saying, but it could be maybe a misunderstanding. >> Some people are very touchy and and friendly and how they say goodbye. >> Kissing you in your mouth. Maybe he could have misplaced. He went to >> Well, we'll talk to him and see what's going on cuz they didn't call us, which is highly unlikely of >> the Cuz I was the one who got, you know, I was in the room with him and he was the one who killed me. >> How is he going to call you if he's uh if if because he me he was going to call you? >> I'm just saying usually both parties will call in and give us give a sign. >> No, because I didn't say nothing to him. I just walked out. >> Her story was unsettling. The idea of a pervert with a needle was enough to rattle anyone. However, officers still needed answers, and that meant speaking with him and figuring out how a simple doctor's [music] visit ended with police involvement. >> All right, we'll just hang tight and then I'll come speak to you in a few. >> Do you have a doctor uh Jacob here? >> Can we speak with him? Where's he at? Is that Doc? Are you Jacob? Jose Jacob, is there anywhere private that we may be able to speak? Okay. All right. Mr. Jacobs, >> do you know why we're here at all? You have no idea. Okay. Okay. So, um, before I ask you [music] anything about what's going on, why we're here, I'm going to read you some, okay? Having these rights in mind, you wish to [music] talk to us. Okay, perfect. So, we're here today cuz obviously we got reported an incident um that there may have been [music] some unwanted touching that occurred during one of your your visits with the patient. [music] Um during that visit whenever you were saying goodbye um what was that encounter like? >> Okay. I'm going to get a little more specific cuz I'm I'm trying to get let you know explain [music] to me. Um so whenever you were saying goodbye at any point in time [music] did you you know pull her in when you hugged her? No. You didn't [music] kiss her on the lips? >> Okay. >> Oh my god. >> So, you didn't hug her at all? >> No. >> You didn't even touch her? >> No, I didn't leave the exam with the gloves on. >> Mhm. >> That's it. >> Okay. So, how' you how did you leave? Did [music] you just say goodbye? >> Okay. Well, we're getting a whole different story. Obviously, I'm not I'm not saying you're lying or anything. Um, but if it comes down to that [music] and you are lying, you understand there's severe consequences for that, right? >> Okay. So, is there any reason why she would be saying these things? >> I think she has fibromyalgia and pain all over. I don't know why she's saying that, but I agree with this. And like a physician, I'm supposed to be. >> Okay. At any point in time, were you asking her uncomfortable questions that were out of ordinary for what you normally ask other patients? >> No, you're not asking her about her [music] life, if she's married, nothing like that. >> I don't have any reason to ask 105. Go ahead. >> Okay. Because obviously people don't just make these things up, right? I'm not saying that it doesn't happen, but her her emotional state is very heightened right now. I don't know why but I did the exam the axilla because the CT scan showed she has lymph nodes the a checkision and it is there so I told her to see it >> okay was there anyone else in the room with you doing this >> no just you are there [music] any cameras in these rooms >> no I don't think so >> are there any cameras in the hallways maybe capturing you guys leave in >> no >> you don't have any interior cameras in the building. Do you have your idea? >> Yes, ma'am. >> Fibromyalgia, a lot of stuff. >> What? What is that? You're going to have to help me understand. >> It's a autoimmune disease that can affect the brain, your state of mind, and all these things. >> Are you able to write it down for me? Print it out. [music] And I I don't Yeah, I don't know what it is. Fibromyalgia is a chronic condition known for widespread pain, fatigue, sleep problems, and mental fog. Still, an unconented kiss from a perverted, haggarded doctor had [music] never cured it, and denial wasn't about to make the situation disappear either. As more officers arrived, they were met with a [music] baffling scene. A doctor was trying to talk his way out, unaware his body language had already confessed for him. >> And these are all what she has. >> Is it diagnosed? [music] Is there like a medical chart? >> Yeah. I don't know that, but it was she had it for years and years and years. >> How do you normally [music] say goodbye to people? I'm I'm Cuz I know every doctor is different. Like my doctor's super friendly. I'm I'm [music] >> Yeah, I I don't know. Sometimes shake most of the time shake hands and say goodbye and >> you know, I guess I'm just trying to figure out what exactly happened. Some people want to hurt me, but if they start that, I would do that. I'll normally say goodbye and shake hands and that's it. >> Okay. How'd you say goodbye to her? [music] >> I shook hands. >> You shook her hands. >> Okay. Never hugged her. Never kissed her. >> No. >> Cuz that would be out of >> Yeah. I know. >> That would be Yeah. I didn't >> Okay. >> That would not be in line with what you normally do. >> Absolutely. >> Okay. Have you ever been arrested for anything or been or has been any other inappropriate accusations been against you ever? [music] The Ever? >> Never. >> Never. >> I've been a physician since 2000 1996. >> Okay. >> No problem. Thank you. >> The doctor's office seemed like the perfect cemetery for something that never should have happened. No cameras, no extra staff around, quiet, controlled. It looked calculated, almost too easy. That was the thing about well hidden sins. They never stayed buried. Most times they called attention to themselves in the strangest, most [music] unexpected way. >> Okay. Um, so why we're here today is we got a report of >> maybe an inappropriate encounter that occurred in one of the rooms with the doctor and a patient. >> Mhm. Um, obviously he's alleging nothing happened. Uh, nothing what she's reporting happened. Um, and she is claiming [music] that, you know, he hugged her and then kissed her on the lips. Um, which would obviously be very inappropriate for what is protocol for doctors. >> Um, so I guess we're trying to figure out is is this normal behavior? Had has anyone ever reported anything like this? have one report >> with this doctor >> with this doctor. >> That's why he wanted to come over here because >> Okay. >> This would be number two and there we will zero tolerance that and he received a letter last time that if this if this happened again >> Mhm. >> regardless of the circumstances it was >> what did that happen? >> It was probably golly I can't remember. It's been months. It was months. [music] like last year. >> Yes. >> Was it report to law enforcement? >> No, it was not. >> There was a report internally to me >> that that you know this patient >> and this is what she said happened and um so internally we spoke to the patient. >> Mhm. And then he received a letter that says and his story of what happened in that was honest towards the patient and just fishy. I mean, come on, dude. >> Yeah. >> I fell off plenty of places and no one's ever accused me of >> Yeah. >> You know what I mean? Like Yeah. like this. >> Um, I'll give you I'll write down my email in just one second and I'll I'll give you the case card with that as well. >> I appreciate it. Thank you so much. >> We're still working on it. Give us just a few more minutes. Okay. >> What's going to happen? >> Oh, we're working on it. Give me just a minute. Okay. >> Okay. I need some I need a report. >> We will. We will. >> And I want a first choice. >> Oh, okay. We got you. >> Okay. We We got you. This is pretty though. >> Okay. >> I need to use the bathroom. >> Oh gosh. Okay. I don't know if they got one inside and >> No, I don't want to go in there. >> Okay. Um >> there's another facility here. Can I >> Yeah, go there. Go there and just lock your car up and go there and just come right back to your car. Okay. Okay. >> His creepy past wouldn't stay buried. It was just who he was. But the officers weren't finished. They needed more evidence to pin him down, hoping to take an unusual predator off the streets. Why don't you hid behind a hospital lab coat? >> Bye. >> I'll be with you in one minute. >> Bye. >> If you >> He knows we're here. It's >> I got you. There was one other thing that I um a few months ago. It was discussed with it at the time. Again, it was another Hispanic female, so I don't know what [music] the deal is with that. >> But I had to deal with her and then she had to call her husband here. We ended up switching everything out, profusely apologized cuz of course, you never know the situation, >> right? >> Um, but we did make sure that she was transferred from his care, >> never been. And this was the same internet Randy was telling us about >> um similar. Yes. >> Similar. >> Yeah. I [music] mean I didn't I don't really know what happened. >> Okay. >> So but I know that there was >> but no like to your knowledge no employees that have came forward and said he's making >> he's only here 2 days a week and his nurse is Sarah. Um, so obviously he's not going to make any towards her because she is not a heter woman, >> but he's never with her. Um, he they brought things up where he's on like your Facebook pages [music] and stuff like with like women over 50 and stuff like that. So, I mean, there's been some red flags, but like I said, I don't want to position here at my job. I've been here since 2011. I'm a manager. >> No, I I totally understand. But yeah, I was involved in the last incident [music] with that female. She was a much younger female in her 40s. Um said that he went in to kiss her. She left called her husband. It >> Oh, that was so clean. >> Mhm. >> Thank you very much. >> Yes, no problem. >> When you guys get a chance, can you guys send him back over here? He's actually in with the last 900 wife as a nurse right now. Um and then Okay, she's a crime. She wants she but she wants to pursue charges. >> Okay. >> The officers went back to the doctor laying out the facts and pointing out every inconsistency they had spotted in their reports, especially the ones that he had provided. If he had nothing to hide, they figured he had no reason to lie. >> Why'd you lie to us earlier? Cuz we know that you lie when you said that nothing like this has ever been reported or happened. Correct. >> You don't know what you're talking about. You were never written up with work. >> No, I mean >> the 110 one page um on the stom. >> So I was I [snorts] got up and then when I was going out, you know, uh I [music] fell onto her and she reported saying I was trying to do something. >> Okay. So that would have been worth mentioning, [music] right? That's a report of something similar to this, correct? >> No, it's not. I didn't >> It is. It's a report of conduct, right? She's saying you, you know, in it's not professional is what she was saying. [music] >> So that would have been helping us earlier when we asked you those questions as if anything like this has been recorded before. >> Right. [music] You can understand where I'm coming from. >> Okay. So why didn't you mention that earlier? because I didn't think it was inappropriate on my side. >> I don't I don't believe your exchange whenever you [music] left is is accurate. Okay. So, there's obviously reports of this prior, right? [music] There's re prior incidents that are kind of similar. Hispanic female 50s reports of kissing on the mouth. So, what actually happened? Yeah, that was reported earlier. And you know that >> you don't need to act dumb. You know that. I I didn't do that. >> Listen to me. You know that because it was reported to you as a misconduct and you signed off on it and they're going to provide that to us. You understand that? >> So, now would be the time to be honest and tell us what happened today. >> That did not happen >> because we're going to find out. >> Yes. You can't find out. >> Okay. We're going to find out cuz we're going to talk to the other victim. So, if you're not telling us [music] the truth today, you understand that that's going to look really bad, right? >> Versus just being honest. >> I didn't do that. So, you know, you can say what you want. You can go whatever it is. >> I'm not accusing you. I'm telling I don't believe you >> because clearly you're not telling us what happened >> and we have no video surveillance. And then now we have a victim crying [music] in the parking lot and you're sitting here shrugging your shoulder saying, "No, nothing happened." >> I'm sorry. I didn't >> Well, don't apologize to me. I'm not the one crying. >> I'm sorry. I didn't uh I looking back I don't think I did anything that would make someone cry. I was really trying to comfort her. >> Okay. >> Give her the courage as a physician. Give her the courage to [music] face what she's got going. That's all I did. >> The officer's sharp, nononsense approach [music] cracked him. He slipped up and let something slip, admitting that he had tried to comfort her. At first, he had only [music] mentioned shaking hands, but now the truth was out hanging in the air. I believe that I >> Okay. So, you're you're sticking with that story. That's what happened. You shook her [music] hand >> and I, you know, give her the courage to face the problem. >> Courage. How [music] did you give her courage? >> Yeah. I just, you know, she felt angry. But I, you know, I fight. >> What do you mean by hold her? >> Can I do that with you? I can. >> Go ahead. So, like this? >> No, like that. >> Okay. You don't understand how that would be pulling someone into you? >> You know, that was uh kind of giving her a comfort. >> That didn't comfort me. That felt very aggressive. If I'm being honest, it wasn't comforting. >> If we swab her lips for DNA, we will not find her mouth. We will not find your DNA on her mouth. >> Yes, you can try to do that. Of course. >> Okay. Cuz we will. >> Yeah. All right. >> Yeah. >> And if we have to get a warrant for your arrest and we'll be back. >> Okay. >> The thing with this and why we're taking so much precaution on it is it's political. It's a [music] doctor given the circumstances, right? So if we have more victims and say he [music] gets arrested on these charges, who's to say there's not more that didn't report it? >> Correct. >> So that's kind of our big that's our big concern. >> Absolutely. some bits >> and it opened up and opened the whole can of worms. >> Yeah. [music] >> And and that that kind of gives and just like we had an incident a little while ago, you know, where as soon as he got arrested, a trail of reports came back, you know, saying, "Yep, this happened to me. This happened to me." Cuz people now >> something like this happens, it's not isolated. I mean, >> this is a pattern of behavior that >> the only reason we know about two of them is >> they said something. two people said something didn't. I don't I don't know. So, okay. >> Yep. So, >> all right. [music] >> We appreciate your help. Like, really do. So, we'll let her know and then we'll go from there. >> All right. And and you guys have my contact information. So, whatever you guys think. >> Okay. Thank you. We appreciate it. both of them. >> What we're going to do is we're going to send it to the state and see what they wanted to go from there. Okay? So, we're probably going to seek a warrant for his arrest. Okay? >> I want I want press charges because that's harassment. >> Harassment and I want to press charges. >> That that's what I'm explaining to you. So, that's what we're doing. Okay? We're sending it to the state. Okay? They're going to decide at that point in time if they're going to prosecute on that. If they say yes, then a warrant for his arrest will be issued. Okay. >> So, what's going to happen now? What I'm going to do now? >> What's going to happen now is it's going to get documented. Okay. We're going to document it. Send it to the state. >> Okay. You being a victim of a crime, >> you're going to go in as a victim. >> Okay. I'll provide you some paperwork here in a minute. >> Okay. >> Okay. All right. Give me one minute to get that paperwork started for you. Okay. >> The doctor got arrested and charged with battery. Authorities said that the case was heading to the state for a warrant. At the time that this video was made, no new updates or developments have been reported. At least Dr. Jose Jacob didn't take his actions to his victim's house, unlike Dr. Maurice Wallen, a 48-year-old cancer research doctor whose dangerous obsession for the forbidden led him to the home of a 13-year-old with intentions that were far from holy. >> Why did you come to uh the house of Paluma today? >> I was curious. So, you drove 40 minutes from Piedmont to meet a 13-year-old? >> I didn't know she was 13. that nothing would have happened. Can you expect me to believe that >> after after you talk about having the truth different sexual the truth acts with her? >> On August the 18th, 2006, what began as an online chat with an individual he thought was a young girl turned into a life shattering trap for Dr. Maurice Wallen when he showed up at the Petaluma house expecting a secret meeting spiced with some diabolical activities. [music] He was met instead by police lying in weight. The doctor, a respected physician in his community, couldn't believe the scene unfolding before him as offices closed in. His career and reputation collapsing in a single moment. Have a seat right there. Explain to you what's going on. Okay. Um, like I said, my name is Steve Nelson. I'm detective with the Palomao Police Department. Um, first thing I'm going to do is uh explain to you your uh Miranda rights. Okay. Okay. You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can of be used against you in a court of law. So, like to talk about what what happened today. Okay. Um, let me just want to just confirm some information about you. Your name is Maurice Woolen. Okay. If if I can have you verbalize. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Um and you live at 304 >> Scenic Avenue >> in Pemont. >> Yes. >> Okay. And your birth date is 228 of 58. >> Correct. >> Okay. What um or screen name do you use? >> The pause in the investigation room spoke volumes. A respected doctor of medical science could tell exactly how deep he had just dug himself. Admitting to the screen name was just [music] the start. Whatever came next, there was no way he would escape it unscathed. >> I really need to have an attorney, I think, present. >> Okay. Okay. Um, can you tell me what's going to happen? >> What's going to happen? Um, you're being charged with uh I believe I believe uh attempt lewd acts with a child under the age of 14 and uh burglary. >> Burglary. Yes. >> So far, the only thing he questioned was the burglary charge because it caught him off guard. The lewd conduct accusations didn't surprise him at all. He knew exactly what he had been doing and he was playing dumb for a reason. >> Stealing what? >> By entering the dwelling that you did. >> Okay. So, at that point, going to bring you back over to booking. You'll be transported to the Sonoma County Sheriff. >> Like going to jail? >> Uh, yeah. >> Okay. Steve, I've never done anything wrong in my life. Ever. You know my record. >> Okay. I've never had more than a traffic ticket. Okay. What happens when I get to the Skone County Jail? >> Um, they'll talk to you whether you can arrange bail or or anything like that. Other than that, you'd probably be in jail until Tuesday uh for arraignment. >> I didn't do anything. >> What did I steal? >> That's what I told you. It's not about stealing. >> What did I What What did I take? >> Okay, let me just stop you for a second. You asked to talk to an attorney. >> Yes. >> Okay. I'm not going to discuss this further because I can't. Okay. Unless you want to wave your right to have an attorney present. >> Can I call my wife? >> Um, you will be able to make a call later on. >> I need to call her now. >> Okay. I I'm not going to base this on Do you still want to have an attorney present? I will answer what I can. >> Okay. I have to visit that and I have to respect your constitutional rights. >> All right, let's talk. >> Okay. What screen name do you go by? >> Um I use talldream.com. >> Okay. Is that a Yahoo? >> Yes. >> Website. Okay. He had waved his rights and now he had agreed to the username tied to the account. Now, it seemed like the officers had managed to draw him out into the open. Or maybe he already knew the game and just wanted to see how much the officers actually had on him. >> Okay. Why did you come to uh the house of Pedaluma today? >> Um I was curious. >> Okay. Curious about what? Um I chatted with someone online. She had um asked to meet me on several occasions. I declined. Um then today again she asked. I had a little bit of time, not very much. >> Okay. >> Because I have to be home to pick my wife up. And so I thought I would come out and meet her and nothing more. >> Okay. And how old was the the person you were chatting with? >> Not sure. >> How old did she tell you? >> I don't remember. >> So, you don't know? You don't remember? >> I don't remember. >> I know she was young and I know that >> under 18. >> Not sure. >> Okay. How old are you? >> 48. >> 48. >> 48. Okay. And uh what location were you coming to? >> Um I don't remember the address. Do you remember the street name? >> I don't. It was in Paluma. >> Okay. >> And what made you think that the girl was under the age of 18? >> Um, she was young. I I don't remember exactly what she said. >> When you were chatting with her, um, do you remember her screen name? >> Not positive. She messaged me a couple times, too. Okay. >> So far, you had done everything to [music] dodge the serious questions, but even the seemingly harmless ones were carefully tailored for a bigger purpose. What I'd like to do is maybe I can refresh your memory. Um, did you ever talk about I mean, what kind of things did you talk about in the chats? >> Just just playing. >> What kind of playing? >> Just just talking. >> Okay. >> I don't remember the specifics. What what name do you use besides tall tree meat doc? >> Do you use a another name like a false name that you use when you meet people? >> I have a nickname. >> What's that? >> Mo or Marco? >> Marco. Okay. And then if you told her that you were Marco in San Francisco, that would have been accurate, I >> suppose. Yeah. Okay. >> Dr. Maurice knew the drill and tried not to use his real name, which the officers quickly uncovered. It seemed clever at first, but he forgot that the internet never forgets. >> August 24th, you're chatting with her and you tell her, "I'm Marco, by the way, in San Francisco." She said, "Thanks. I'm Willow." Okay. Um, I'm in the 707. I'm 13, female. What's your ASL? And then you say, "Oh, goodness. I'm 29. Sorry." That accurate? >> I don't remember. >> But would that be accurate? that you >> I >> I don't remember. >> I mean, does anybody else use your computer? >> I I don't I don't know. I don't remember those those words. I don't remember her. >> Did you talk to her about touching and kissing and making each other feel good? >> Okay. >> I was playing with her and then you typed to her. I wouldn't stop until you came over and over. I don't remember saying that. >> You talked to her about kissing her chest. Don't remember. Uh just a question, a phone number. Uh 51042423. Where's that? >> Uh one of my clients. >> Okay. So it was just a phony number you gave? >> No. No. Uh wasn't phony? >> Okay. So it's a real number. It's a way to get a hold of you. Um, no. No. Is I don't know. I don't I don't know what number it was. I mean, it's not my home myself. Off Nelson, can I call my wife? >> Okay. You'll be able to call her when we're done. Okay. >> Dr. Maurice's rush to call his wife came off more like damage control than accountability. The officer was ready. He pulled up a few of Maurice's chat receipts, hoping to dig deeper. Even as Maurice tried to play it off with a well-masked, dismissive attitude. >> And then you told her, "No, I'm real, but you're under 18 and I'm over. We would have to be so careful." >> I don't remember saying that, but I told her that she needed to I was concerned about her. She needed to be careful. >> Okay. You You commented about her body looking pretty hot. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> I don't remember. >> And then you asked her what bra size she wore and she said 30B, but it kind of big on me right now. Oh, I still growing. Um, I don't remember her saying that. Okay. Saying that you will kiss them. >> I don't remember. The only reason I came today, I was curious, but I wasn't going to do anything. I had no intention to do anything. >> Talk about, you know, what will you wear? I don't know what whatever whatever's clean, something sexy. And you said, "Will you take it off for me?" And then you asked her that you wanted her to take your your her pants off also. >> But you can you can take mine off if you want. >> I wasn't going to. >> How do you want to do it? >> I wasn't going to do anything. >> Okay. >> But here you're telling me your concern for her welfare. >> But you read on and I was playing with her. It was a m that was not appropriate. But then when you read on, I say over and over again that she shouldn't be doing this. I can't come see you. She begs me to come. Officer Nelson, I I shouldn't have talked to her. You're right. I wasn't going to do anything. >> Have you ever done this before? >> No. >> Never. >> Never met a 13-year-old >> on the internet. Yeah. Never. No. >> You told her you were a doctor. >> Officer Nelson, you have to believe me. I would never have done anything to her. >> Okay. Maurice, I'm just reading your chats and and you know, you're talking about being concerned for her and you're asking her, "Will you suck me?" >> And uh I want you to taste me. >> I would never have done that. >> Did you say that? >> I don't remember. >> Okay. You know, >> I don't remember, but I never would have done anything to her. >> And then you show up. I mean, where do you live? Pedmont. >> How long did it take you to get here? >> 40 minutes. >> Where's your wife right now? >> Uh, at a party. >> So, where does she think you're at? Work? >> No, I told her I would go off in a little while. >> So, you drove 40 minutes from Pedmont to meet a 13-year-old. >> I didn't know she was 13. >> That nothing would have happened. >> That's right. You expect me to believe that >> after after you talk about having the truth different sexual >> the truth acts with her? It's the truth. >> Dr. Maurice was corned and his chat [music] history wasn't doing him any favors by now. He had a pretty clear idea of what the detective knew, but he had no clue that hell was just about to break loose. >> Did you send her any pictures? >> No. >> Is this a picture of you? >> Yeah. Were you wearing a wig? >> I just had my hair done. Okay. >> All right. The time's approximately 14:38. The interview. >> Can I call my wife? I'll walk you over to the trailer. >> In the end, he was charged with felony charges of attempted lewd and lascivious [music] conduct. So far, we've seen respected doctors caught up in scandalous affairs. Still none compared to Elizabeth, an A-list sociopath who turned her patients into victims [music] and earned the chilling nickname the grim reaper nurse. >> To you that she thought that she was going to that night. >> Yeah. So I thought, okay, she must be the one. When I gave the insulin, I got that feeling. I felt like God had failed me. >> You've done some some things to some innocent people. >> Absolutely. On October the 5th, 2016, inside the Woodstock Police Service Station in Ontario, Elizabeth Wetlafer, a former registered practical nurse, sat in an interrogation room as disturbing [music] details began to surface. Over the years, she had betrayed the trust placed in her care, administering [music] lethal doses of insulin to her patients while working as a nurse between 2007 and 2016, a truth that was only just coming fully into the open. >> Sorry about that. That's okay. There's >> too many people moving and shaking around here and you can't really keep track of who's doing what. >> So, um, so yeah, like I said, um, I'm just going to go through for everything in this room is audio and video recorded first off. Are you okay with that? >> Oh, yes. >> Okay. So, I just want to go through, like I said, a couple formalities, cover a few little things off, things that I have to do on my end that I I need to do and, uh, things that I just want to tell you and make sure that we're all on the same page before we uh, before we get going. >> Okay. Okay. So, first off, um, today is Wednesday, October the 5th, 2016. And on my phone right now, we'll just use that as a a time reference. It's 5:14. >> Okay. >> So, 1714. We'll just use that as a start time of our conversation here today. Um, again, my name is Nathan with the Woodstock Police Service. I currently work in our crime unit. >> Okay. >> And, uh, we met a short time ago in downtown Toronto. Correct. >> Right. >> Yeah. So, um, we came to a facility where you've spent the last few weeks from what I understand. >> Yeah. >> And, uh, we met with Dr. Khan and and his team of, uh, associates and I believe you're under his care for the last little while, correct? >> Yep. For the last 3 weeks. >> Okay. and uh the process how how we got here basically is um kind of offered you a ride back and and so we could have this conversation and and you gracefully accepted and uh off we went down the 401 or the gardener the Q&A >> and here we are right um so just to make it clear for whoever might watches in the future um we didn't force you to come with us we didn't uh you know shove you in the car and off we win kind of thing you did it on your own free Well, and and you accepted it on your own uh on your own decision making. Is that correct? >> Yep. I had a nap and he even let me try to give money to the homeless people. So >> there you go. I remember all of that. I remember all that. So I I know I read you a few things before um as we were kind of just cruising down Spina there. Um and I know you've been read this many times, but it's just things that we need to just reiterate and make sure that you're clear and comfortable with [music] with having this conversation today. >> Okay. >> Okay. Um, like I said, um, based on our investigation, there could be some some pretty serious criminal charges that result of our investigation. Okay? So, having said that, if if you wish to speak to a lawyer at any time, >> okay? >> I don't want you to hesitate. >> We can make it happen whenever you like. So, whether it's now, 5 minutes from now, an hour from now, or 3 days from now, whatever the case may be, >> we're not going to be asking questions for 3 days, are we? >> I hope not. I don't >> I'm just I'm just saying that anytime that you want to speak to a lawyer that you're kind of in our company or whatever the case may be, you let us know and and we can make that accommodation for you. >> Does that make sense? >> Yeah. >> Okay. Because you in your position as a Canadian citizen, you're uh you're entitled to have free legal advice from a legal aid >> uh duty council lawyer, a lawyer of your choice, whoever you like. >> Okay? >> Make sense? >> Yep. >> Okay. Um, and like I said, because there could be some criminal charges that that result of of our investigation, >> right? >> Okay. Um, also, and I know you've been read this many times before, that you may be charged uh with many criminal offenses. Um, and you don't have to say anything in answer to the charges that you paid, but if you wish to do so, um, we're going to do that today. Um, but whatever you do say could be used in in courts. I know we had that conversation in the car on the way on the way uh back to Woodstock >> and I asked you to repeat it in your own words and you kind of gave us a few uh a few of of describing it in your own vocabulary as you said something like it's not Vegas what happened in the car on the way back doesn't necessarily stay in the car. >> So same thing same thing in this room. Anything that you say and everything that we talked about should be used as evidence at court. Okay. >> After all the formalities were out of the way, the detective confronted her with questions surrounding the allegations [music] against her. >> When my ex and I broke up in 2007, I was already taking the medication for my for my borderline personality disorder. And I was so angry and it was like a voice said inside me, I'll use you. Don't worry about it. and the different times that I have caused people or caused them discomfort through the um through the influence. I believe it was the influence of that voice or whatever it was. It wasn't a voice in my head. It was a voice in here. And when I would do it afterwards, I would hear like a laughter in my chest. >> Okay. >> So, started working for St. Elizabeth and I was doing well, but it was a lot of pressure and the way that you know that I've helped people to die has been through insulin. And uh after my first my 30-day evaluation, my uh my uh supervisor came to me and said, "You know, I'm really sorry. We want you for Woodstock, but we have so many kids in schools in Ingresol that need help with their insulin pumps that you're going to start working in English. And I panicked. I panicked. I didn't want to do that cuz I thought, you know what, if I was a kid. So about I think it was about a week after that that I quit. Yeah. And then I uh packed my stuff in the car and I drove two days into I drove into Quebec thinking like I would just start running away sort of thing. Then I thought no that's just stupid. So I came back and uh I couldn't tell my parents what was going on but they had visitors from Scotland so I didn't tell them. And I just I'm sorry. Spent two weeks pretending to go to work. >> Okay. >> While the while the visitors and >> Scotland were here. >> It's funny, but it's not funny. And then um once they left, I I decided I didn't want to nurse anymore. I didn't want to hurt anybody anymore. So, I also quit my other job. And then I decided um well whatever Friday that was that like I did a lot of looking into how I could get help cuz I realized I needed help with whatever this was >> cuz part of me had started to believe that it was the devil >> and part of me thought it might be God that the purpose of my life and uh I know the doctor asked me those questions and I didn't answer them because I was so ashamed but I just uh I didn't want this to keep going on. So, I quit both jobs. Looked into where I could get help. Dr. Fernando is my guest psychiatrist and he's not a very nice man. So, I went on an online uh support group and was talking to people on there and they were saying, you know, get some help. >> There was no remorse, only the calm of someone whose moral curtain had already been ripped apart. But that was just the start. Her confession was about to reveal how a seemingly harmless nurse came to be known as the Grim Reaper nurse. >> And they are the only um mental health facility in Ontario that has an emergency department. >> Okay. >> So, I made the decision and I went I went there one Friday morning. I took the train and off I went. And before I went, I told um two I told three people what was going on. my uh friend from AA and um my uh friend uh I told them all was going on. They said yes, go and get help and my friend and drove me to a train station. And and when you say you told them what was going on, did you get into the details of why you were going to seek help or >> I told them that I people and they all said yes, you better go get help. So off I went. >> Okay. And >> she's friend from uh when I used to work at >> Okay. All right. his last name. >> Um >> Okay. And she drove you to the train station on uh on the Friday on the Friday morning for the Woodstock train station. >> Yep. >> Okay. Um and then your other friend >> is my cousin. >> Okay. She's cousin of yours. >> Yeah, she lives in DC. >> Okay. And I and if you don't want to tell me that's fine based on the reason why this person may not be a friend but your AA friend >> my friend. Yeah. >> Okay. >> She's her I can tell your first name but >> otherwise it's confidentiality >> and and I don't want to dig into that uh at this point that's not a problem at all. Um so did you disclose the same thing to all those three people >> that I had been giving insulin overdoses? I didn't say why cuz at that point I felt so stupid. >> Yeah. >> I I it just felt so stupid. And >> and Beth, to be honest with you, I admire your the way that you're conducting yourself and and telling us and having this conversation with me. I [clears throat] thank you for that. Um and I'm not here to judge in any way. So, I don't want you to know that. And and I'm not a doctor. I know you spent a lot of time at at CAMH the last three weeks, right? Um, and I'm far from a doctor, but I do appreciate you you telling me uh the truth and and telling me uh the way that these things happened and played out >> and uh and I admire you for that. >> And it's, you know, it's been a while because I've been stewing about like do I give the names of the people >> that I killed, >> right? Because then here's eight families that thought that their family member died peacefully and normally and they didn't. And what's that going to do to those families? And even up to uh going to the going to the hospital, I decided I was just going to give the first names and my cousin said, "Listen, they know what years you work there. If you don't tell them the exact means, they're going to go in there and go over every single file." and that's going to be even worse for the families there. >> So, but she was the one to give me that advice to give the names. >> Okay. >> And as far as you know, have these people reached out to any of the police agencies where they may reside to to notify that you told them this or did you tell them in kind of confidence in >> I told them in confidence and they said they promised me they wouldn't tell anyone. >> Okay. But basically the the impliance was if I didn't get help, >> right, >> then they'd be on the phone the next day. >> Okay, I got you. So, did you tell them basically then on >> I told them like Thursday? >> I told them the night before I went. >> Okay. So, Thursday night. >> Yeah. >> And then you took it off Friday morning. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Okay. >> That's basically what they said was, you know, if you haven't gotten help Friday, then we're gone in the police. We love you, but we're gone in the police. It's probably felt that they had a obligation, right? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> A moral obligation or whatever they saw, right? >> Yeah. >> Soon the detective steered the interrogation toward how [music] she handled her mental health. On paper, it looked routine, but it was meant to make sure nothing was left untouched and understand better how [music] her mind really worked. >> What medications are you on right now? >> I'm taking um fluoxamine. It's called Livox 200 milligram. It's a [music] anti-sessional and an anti- depressant. Okay. >> I'm taking 300 mg of circul which is um an antiscychotic and they upped that when I was at K&H. >> Okay. >> Which has really helped clear my thinking. >> Good. >> And then I'm taking a couple blood pressure medications and then I've got some loxipines for when I get really agitated. And when we left the hospital, you had taken, I believe, some Adavan. Is that right? >> I took 2 milligrams of Adavan when we left the hospital, >> right? >> Which was, you guys noted the time, 140 or something like that. >> Right. Yeah. >> So, and I've had nothing since. >> Okay. And I know that the doctor Dr. Con provided with with a prescription that >> Yeah. And he also gave me two lockipines. >> Yeah. >> And was very strict. I am not to take them till all the interviews are over. >> Okay. >> Because they will start to interfere with my thinking. >> Okay. >> And then have these in the interview. >> Yeah. Exactly. And do you feel that you're of a a clear sound mind right now? >> Yes, I do. >> Conversing with me in this in this room? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> And and everything that you're telling me is is the truth and the best that you can remember. >> Yes. Yes. Um, I could I could appreciate where you're coming from as far as the work that you you went through. [music] Um, obviously I've never been a nurse. I've never worked in in the profession that you that you did, but I could imagine how overwhelming it is. >> Yeah. >> Um, having a lot of responsibility, uh, maybe not having the support of of the administration or or your supervisors, you know, just kind of go out and get it done, right? Yeah. >> And uh and that could be I can see how that would be stressful and I could see how that would drive you maybe into your addiction into other things. >> But um >> I want to just go over this document if that's okay with you. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Would you be willing to do that with me? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And you you >> do your thing. >> Sorry. >> No, no, don't be sorry. Absolutely not. >> This is pretty excuse me major. I've only ever had parking tickets. I've never been arrested for anything. >> Well, like I said, you're not under arrest right now, but it is it is a very significant investigation you're [music] right. >> I understand. >> And like I said before, Beth, I I do appreciate you uh speaking with us and can imagine that uh doesn't feel like a weight off your shoulders. >> Yes. >> You've been carrying a burden for quite some time >> and I've tried to get help. >> Yeah. you know, well, sometimes it takes a few attempts to to finally commit to it, right? >> Yeah. I had a pastor that I told me, he prayed over me and told me I'd be fine, and that was God's grace. And then >> when was that? >> That was uh Halloween 2013. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> And you kind of devolved to what had happened to your to you to that point in your life with >> Yes. >> involving people. >> Yeah. Okay. And where was that? >> That was here in town. >> Do you want his name? >> If you want to tell me, that's up to you. >> That was Oh, no. Sorry. It wasn't Did I just say 2014? >> It was 2013. >> The detective had won the long game. He made her comfortable and that comfort soon opened the door to a series of deeply uncomfortable truths about how patients can become victims. >> So be before we get into this um I know that there's a statement which we haven't that I've watched where you attended a police station in Toronto at 52 division. Is that correct? >> Yes, that's correct. >> Okay. >> And I honestly I think it was Detective Hamilton and I honestly can't remember any other detective names. I know it started with an A. Um and you met with them for uh an >> hour and a half. >> I was going to say about an hour and a half. >> That was nuts. [laughter] And at that point you had your possession um a photo copy of this document, right? >> And you went through and you read it out. >> Yes. >> Okay. And then following that they started uh with the first name on the list and they wanted to just try and get a little bit more detail of >> Yes. >> of of the involvement in each circumstance. >> Right. >> Okay. >> That's what I'd like to do today and just give some more detail. >> Okay. >> Okay. So, >> it's a long list. >> It is. It is. But I think that to you and I, I think we can get through it together. >> Yeah, I'm sure we can. I'll go and be patient with me. >> I I've got all the time in the world. >> I'm not going anywhere. >> Cuz I'm physically comfortable. It's a nice chair, but >> yeah. Anytime you need to get up and wander around, if you, like I said, if you want to take a break and uh have me leave and just kind of stretch your legs and whatever the case may be, you go ahead. >> Okay. >> Okay. If you have to use a walk around anytime, just let me know. >> All right. >> Okay. Because like I said, I'm I'm here as as long as you need to be. >> Okay. >> Okay. And I'm not pressuring you to uh to stay any longer than you want to, but I think that uh I think if we just kind of sit down and go through this, like I said, we'll get through it together. Yes. >> I'm uh I'm a pretty patient person and I'm >> here to just listen to what you have to tell me. Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. Like I said, I I appreciate it. >> Okay. So, um how about we just do this together? I'll just bring this over here. Is that okay? >> Sure. Okay. So, I'm not going to have you read through this entire documentary because I've already you already did that, right? >> I have written it. I have read it. I have, you know, lived it. So, >> yeah. Absolutely. So, Mr. Silox. >> Yeah. >> Okay. September of 2007. >> Yeah. The first one that results. >> Okay. >> And and before you get into that, you have signed kind of page [music] numbers, all that kind of stuff on the documents. We'll just go in order of of how you've written it. Okay. And I [music] know that the detectives in uh in Toronto kind of had this in their position and just kind of got you to recall some things. >> Yeah. >> Um I'm just going to keep it here because [music] I mean you've already written this out. >> So what's on here is we already know that. [music] Um I just have some followup questions with regards to each circumstance. So Mr. Silox um it says here you are working at double shift uh from 3 till 7, right? >> 3:00 p.m. to 7:00 a.m. >> Right. Okay. And this was at Crescent Care. >> Yes. >> Okay. In Woodstock? >> Yes. >> Okay. And tell me about your your knowledge of of James and and your daily interactions during a shift with him. >> Um I didn't see him every time. He wasn't always my patient. I just knew from what uh people had said that he would grab the the nurse's uh breasts and he would say horribly inappropriate things about his wife that now he was there, you know. Um he was going to [ __ ] all of us but she was going to all of his stuff and just would say deficit things and he did touch me inappropriately once. >> And where was that? On your body. On your breast. Okay. And were you alone in the room at that point? >> Yes. But did he have a roommate at all? Did you have a roommate? >> I He must have. He wasn't in a single room. >> So he was either in a double room or a quadruple. Okay. >> Would you remember any other residents that would be room with him at that time or? >> No. >> No. >> Um what portion of the home was was James in at this point? >> He was in the Okay. There's an east wing, south wing, north wing. He was in the north wing. about halfway down and he was either in a double bed or a quadruple bed. >> Okay. >> All right. And um the the diagnosis of of his health at at the time you were caring for him, do you remember? >> He was postip surgery and he had dementia. >> Do you remember how old he was approximately? >> No, I don't. I didn't see the >> in the 80s. >> Yeah. >> Okay. And sorry, he was not a diabetic. >> Not a diabetic. >> And sorry, you said he had dementia. >> Yes. >> Okay. Which we've also noted here as well, right? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> It soon became clear that she was more interested in recounting her diabolical actions than showing any regret. This was an unrepentant evil that worked in a place people visited in search of hope and [music] healing. Even the detective was about to be stunned by the revelations that continued to unfold. >> Tell me about the night. Uh, was this the first person that you did this to >> that I that I tried? Well, there were other people that I've done it to who didn't die >> prior to James. >> Prior to James. >> Okay. And are they documented on here? >> He's the first one who died, >> right? >> Back here. >> But there's some other >> people who didn't die, >> right? So, I can't read that first name. I believe >> Jose. >> Okay. So, that was I mean they're both September 2007, but that was before James. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, was this your first attempt at at overdosing these people on insulin? >> Yes, cuz all I was >> was >> And I didn't really want her to die. I just I don't know. I was just angry and um had this sense inside me that she might be a person that God wanted back with him. >> And is that that feeling you're referring to that you had in your stomach? >> Yeah. >> Okay. Is that is that the point and I hate to get off topic here but the point where you had these feelings in your stomach and almost that laughter after it happened. Yes. >> Is that the part that you didn't tell Dr. Con? >> Yeah. >> Okay. Okay. I just wanted to be clear on my >> I told him about the laughter in my stomach but not the feeling that this might be the person that God wants. >> Okay. >> Cuz I just sounded so stupid. >> It's your feelings, right? >> Mhm. I honestly felt that God wanted to use me and he kept Dr. Khan kept asking me do you think God had chosen you for a special purpose? I kept saying no [music] cuz that did not sound like a special purpose you know. >> Yeah. >> So, but yeah, I just had a sense after my marriage broke up that God was going to use me for something. And then after a while, I started to really wonder after some of the burgers if it was God or if it was the devil fooling me. Mhm. >> Did you feel like you were doing the right thing for these people? >> No. No. I felt like I was doing what I was supposed to do, but it wasn't what was right for them. >> Okay. >> Um, so James then, um, it was an evening that this one took place, right? >> Yeah. >> Um, it says here at about 9:30. >> Yeah. run me through >> about 9:30. I gave him a dose of uh 50 milligrams of insulin. He's not non-diabetic. So I went into I used a borrowed insulin pen, borrowed insulin and gave him an insulin shot. And [music] at 3:30 the PS, well throughout the night he was yelling out, "I love you and I'm sorry." Not to not to me, but just you could hear him calling out in his room. And that's what he was calling out. And then at 3:30 the uh PSWs came to me and said that he was fine. Okay. So I did what we're supposed to do. I went listened to his heart and chest. Called the doctor, called the family cuz that's what they wanted. Family came in and sit with him for a while. Doctor came in and uh said that his cause of death was from um an ambolism due to his uh close hip. He'd have a he'd had hip surgery. >> Dr. did ambolism, did a photo hip surgery, >> right? Um, who do you think he was talking to when he was yelling out, "I love you." >> I thought it might be his family. >> Okay. >> I really did. When they came in and talked to me, they wanted to know if he'd said anything. So, I told them that I was still ashamed. >> Yeah. >> So ashamed. Yeah. >> When you were speaking with the family. >> Yeah. And is that the uh the family that kind of commended you for the work that you had [music] done and >> Yeah. I've been there for Yes. >> How'd that make you feel? >> Awful. >> Absolutely awful. >> How did you deal with it? >> Um I just went home, went to bed. You know, I felt awful. Maybe I fought with my girlfriend, did some exercising, you know, >> played some games on the computer and just tried to forget about it. Did you have have a problem sleeping that night at all or anything or did you >> Well, I was working night so I was during the day then. >> Um >> I would say I tossed and turned a bit. Yeah. Felt pretty bad and I didn't want to see the family again. So I tried to make sure I wasn't working when I came to pick up her stuff and I wasn't. The >> list of lives she ruined was long. But not everyone who encountered her during her dark phase died. That led to the interview, aiming to find out whether it was deliberate or if she had decided to spare some while showing no mercy to others. >> You you indicated that he wasn't a very nice man. >> No, he wasn't. >> Did Is that a portion of >> um >> what happened? >> I don't know. >> Okay. >> I wonder if that's a portion of how I chose him. >> And afterwards, I did feel a release and a release >> like a release of pressure. >> Okay. Because throughout this document and as we go through it, a lot of these people, >> you kind of describe them as as not very nice people. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> Yeah. >> So, I'm not sure if that's a tendency or a pattern that we see as far as is that why you chose these people. >> Yeah. I'm not It might be, but I also know I just felt like they were the ones, right? >> I had a feeling inside that they were the ones >> before before you injected insulin in Mr. Silox. [music] Was it a spur of the moment thing? Had you thought about it that when you reported for duty at 3:00 in the afternoon? >> Um, I started thinking about it about 6:00 at night, I think. >> Okay. >> And do you remember who the pronouncing doctor would have been? >> No. >> Like, how did how did that process work? >> That process, the way it worked was a person in town with no vital signs. Nurse goes in with a stethoscope. >> Mhm. listens for one minute. If there's no heartbeat, no uh lung sounds, nurse goes and calls the doctor on call. >> Okay. >> Um there was also a sheet that we had to fill out if we thought it was a coroner's case. In this case, I don't believe they thought it was. And then um family is called and the doctor may wait to come in and uh pronounce in the morning. >> Okay. >> Family can come in and visit the body at any time. >> Okay. So then the PSWs would get the the body ready. >> Okay. So prior to the doctor announcing in the morning, the family could come in and spend time. >> Yeah. So the PSWs would just clean them up, put on, you know, put clean brushes and Right. >> clean up the bed and stuff, >> right? So you said you said Mr. Silox, you said we didn't think it was a corner's case. Who who who's had that been? >> I guess I'm using the royal week. >> Okay. Gotcha. Okay. So would that be just a decision that you were trusted to make? >> No, there's a there's a form >> on the computer and you go down through and if it says if you take off anything that says yes, you notify the corner. >> Okay. All right. But you would have clicked off those boxes yourself? >> Yes. >> Okay. So obviously knowing that you had done this to Mr. Silox, did you feel that you wouldn't click yes so that attention wouldn't be drawn to you? You know, I honestly can't remember if he was clever case or not. Okay, >> you might have been. >> That would insulin. >> I would I even though I did this to these people when I did their but see it's phrased as does anyone have a reason to believe that this was not natural. >> Right. >> So yeah, I would click I wouldn't click that one if I Yeah. >> Right. Okay. >> All right. And I just wanted to clarify that. >> Yeah. Yeah. Just a question. >> Okay. Um, anything else you can think about from Mr. Silox? >> No. >> Okay. >> Maurice, how did you pronounce Maurice's last name? >> Granette. >> Is it Granette? >> Okay. So, tell me a little bit about Maurice. This says that this occurred in September or or October of 2010. >> And this was at present care. >> Yep. >> Okay. Tell me a little bit about your interaction with Maurice. He was another one who liked to grab breaths and assasses. >> He was sometimes a patient of mine. See, at that time I wasn't I didn't have a set floor that I worked on. I worked on all the different floors of the nurse kind of filling in. So, uh he [music] one afternoon I was working with him and he did grab me and again I got that feeling inside that this is his time to go. So, I gave him an overdose of insulin after supper. >> Okay. >> And uh I believe he died the next day. >> And what was your shift that you remember? What shift? >> It was 3 to 11. >> 300 p.m. >> Yeah. 2:11 p.m. >> 12:11 p.m. So, he died when I wasn't there. >> Okay. And he was known for it as you're grabbing his ass breath and asses. To a rational mind, grasping [music] a sociopath's thought process is a herculan task. But the detective stayed the course. [music] The more she spoke, the more layers of her crimes came to light. Each revelation darker than the last. >> Helen, I don't remember a lot about. She was very quiet, very determined. Um, just seemed to be waiting to die. >> Mhm. >> Again, I had that feeling that, you know, this is the one. And um I made a bit of a fuss about her that night because she was very lucid and we talked about how much she liked blueberry pie and ice cream. >> Okay. >> So on my on my break I went to Walmart. I got a small blueberry pie and some ice cream and brought it to her and she ate three or four bites. >> And then that night I overdosed her cuz like I said I had that feeling that it was her time to go and What do you mean by that? You think she was towards the end of her life at that point? >> I know that she was the person to go to >> and that was in your mind in your stomach. Where was that feeling? >> In the cap area. >> After I did it, I got that laughter. >> Okay. >> When would you feel that laughter? Would you feel it right after you injected it or once the person passed away? >> Um, both. >> Yeah, >> both. And Alan, was you hear that she wasn't a diabetic? No. >> Just out of curiosity, how much insulin would it take to kill someone >> that wasn't diabetic or >> I don't know. >> You don't know that? >> No. So, it was kind of hit and >> you didn't know that as a nurse that this amount or >> No, there is no set amount. >> Okay. And I'm just I I simply just don't know that answer. >> There is no set amount. >> Okay. All right. So, different people would react differently to different amounts. Is that fair to say? >> Yes. >> Yeah. And would it obviously make a difference if they were diabetic or not a diabetic? >> Yeah. >> I believe she died the next day. >> And it said uh we don't hear the doctor declared her to be a palative and she died 2 days later. >> Two days later. Okay. >> And do you remember how much insulin that you had given her? >> 60. I don't know. >> And where would you have gotten that from? >> From from the same place I always get it. >> Okay. Do you remember where Ellen was in in person care? >> Yes, she was on the south wing and probably about four doors down from the nurses station in a double room on the right hand side. If you're facing the end, she was on the right hand side. >> Um, you don't say a lot of negative things about Helen or did you did you get along with her? Okay. Did she ever do anything to to harm you or? >> No. No. She was very quiet. It was just I got that feeling that yeah, she's an existent time. So, >> and uh her health at that point was her diagnosis. >> She was um I couldn't tell you her diagnosis, just that she was she didn't get out of bed a lot and she had to be fed her food and fed her pills. So she was she was near her end of his mother. >> How old do you think Helen was when this happened? >> Say about 85 or 86. >> And do you remember what doctor would have were you there when she passed away 2 days later? >> I don't think so. >> You don't think so? So you won't wouldn't be which which doctor pronounced her too sure. Once I gave the insulin over, I was done. I was there for the ship, I just kind of laid low and didn't, you know, have anything to do with them. >> So, so if you issued an insulin injection to somebody, Helen for instance, do you remember where Helen was injected? >> Probably her arm. >> Okay. Um, so do you remember if she had a reaction at all? >> A reaction? You know, if she confronted you in what you were doing at all, was she able to? >> She meant it out. >> Was she used to getting insulin or needle? >> I don't know if she was. >> All right. Um, but she wasn't combative or or she didn't confront you and ask you what you were doing. >> No. >> Okay. All right. And you said once once you gave them their insulin that >> you just I just kind of I tried to stay away from it sometimes. cuz I was very interested to see what was happening. >> I would just try to stay away from that. >> The officer's non-judgmental approach kept working like magic. And before long, another question peeled back in another layer of Elizabeth's complicated persona. >> Would you ever go back into their rooms if while they were still alive to see kind of how they were progressing through the >> if they were if they were my if they were my charge? Yes, I had to. >> Even though you had attempted to take their lives. >> Yeah. >> Okay. And you would um what kind of symptoms would they show? Is it different for everyone or >> um well usually they'd get very diaphoretic red. Um they could lose consciousness. They'd shake. Some people um one person had a seizure. I think it was just one person. Two people stroked right out >> right after receiving. They >> not right after, but they stroked out >> over time. Okay. >> Actually, three people cuz they believe James stroked dead as well. So, >> are still Yeah. >> Okay. Okay. Okay. Um, November 2011. >> Mhm. >> Mary Zerinsky. Is that >> Yeah. >> How you recall her last name being pronounced? >> Yes. >> And this was at Cryson [music] Care. >> Yep. >> Okay. family. You said that she wasn't a diabetic, but she had dementia. >> That's right. Okay. >> But she could talk and communicate a lot. >> Very good. >> Yeah. She was she was uh feisty. >> Was she? >> Yeah. >> She didn't hurt the nurses or anything. And she's just very outspoken and feisty. And one night she said, you know, I'm going to die tonight. >> Mary said that. >> Yeah. And I said, "Oh." And she said, "Yeah, why don't you get me into the why don't you get me into the death bed so I can fight?" And I said, "Are you sure?" and she said, "Yeah, put a look at that. I'm going to try." So, I said, "Okay." And I went to the other nurse that was working with me. And uh she said, "Oh, okay. Well, let's put her inside care room if that's what you want." So, we did. And then I thought, "Well, she must be the next one." >> Mhm. >> I had a feeling inside of me she must be the next one because she was saying she was going to die, but there was no signs she was going to die. So I gave her another dose of insulin and she became paliotative and she died I think within a couple of days I think. Yeah. So she died the next afternoon here. But um there you go. >> Which one has the vodka in it? The thought process and confessions grew more sinister by the minute. And then the officer shifted tactics, asking pointed questions out of curiosity to see whether she truly understood the science behind some of her atrocious acts. >> And do you remember how much influence you would have given Mary? >> I think she may have been the first person that I gave long acting and short acting to together. >> Okay. >> I think. And can you just besides the actual obvious uh in the title of the the actual itself long acting and short acting what was the biggest difference between the two? >> One one drops your blood sugar right away. The other um starts working through your body and dropping it gradually over long periods of time. It just keeps dropping it. [music] >> Okay. And what would the combination of those two do together? Uh, >> did you know? >> I didn't know for sure, but I figured it would be much stronger than just a short asking, >> right? Okay, which makes sense. >> Yeah, >> you would know more than I would, but um, do you remember where you injected Mary? >> Uh, probably her arm. >> In her arm? >> I told her I told her it was for her pain. >> And do you know if she was in a single room or the double room? Well, we had moved her from the double room to the paliative care room right corner from the nurse's office. >> So, where did you inject her? In the pallet of bed or >> in the palative bed. >> Okay. And she she had vocalized to you that she thought that she was going to die that night. >> Yeah. So, I thought, okay, she must be the one when I gave the insulin, I got that feeling inside and the laughter. >> Has she ever said something to like something to you before about wanting? M not like that. No. She was like, I want to die. I want to die. I want to die tonight. I'll be in bed. I'm going to die. >> And that was new to you? >> Yes. >> Do you remember what ship you were working? >> Afternoon 3 to 11. >> Okay. And about what time do you think you would have moved her to the pallet of bed and her? >> Um, might have been after supper. So about 7. And Mary ever done anything to harm you or >> No. >> upset you in any way? >> No. No. She was fun. >> Okay. [music] >> She was So she was funky and and outspoken. >> Yeah. >> Um do you remember being present when she died? >> I don't think I would. >> Okay. >> All right. And therefore probably wouldn't be a part of checking the boxes. >> No. No, I didn't do the boxes for her. Who was there to see Mary on a regular basis? Who came to see Mary? >> I don't know. >> No, >> I don't know. >> Do you know if she had family? >> Um, maybe son, but I don't know. All right. And and Mary being we'll refer to her as your fourth victim. >> Yeah. not the fourth person that uh well that you were successful in uh in these insulin injections. >> How did your emotions start to to feel as kept continuing? >> I kept having a lot of guilt. A lot of guilt. Um Mary well as you'll see after Mary was Glattus and after Gladus there was a period of 2 years where I didn't do it 3 years where I didn't do it. >> What was going on in your life at that point? I was trying very very hard to get close to God to make sure that this wasn't him and to just live my life, read the Bible, go to church, and not do that cuz I didn't know what I'm doing anymore. So, I tried very hard. I'm still using a little bit more. >> Yeah. >> And alcohol. >> Yeah. >> What was your drink of choice? >> Ry. >> Yeah. >> So, I shouldn't say it like that, but I make it sound like it's Yeah. Rye. >> Where' you? >> Brian Bailey's. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Pop a rye and pop down some water. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Ryan water. >> Okay. >> And uh typically how much would you would you drink in a week? >> In a week. Probably about eight to nine. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Like like shots of rye or >> uh drinks. I don't know. Probably shot. >> Okay. >> People expected [music] evil to look loud or chaotic, but Elizabeth was a different breed altogether. Her chilling detachment from the reality of what she had done never faded, even as the detective carefully sifted through her words, trying to separate any claims of insanity from what looked like [music] calculated awareness. >> So, being that it had been a few years then um when you injected uh Mrs. Young and you were successful in in causing her death, how did it make you feel after those few years that these urges and these feelings have come back? >> I felt horrible. I felt angry at myself. I felt like I had failed myself. I felt like God had failed me. >> Did you continue to practice in the church? >> I continued going to church. Yeah. >> Believe in her as much as >> um I did, but I was getting very confused. So, it was soon after that that I went to the pastor [music] and told him what had happened and uh he prayed over me and cuz he said that was the last thing he would have thought of was me and his wife was there too and they prayed over me and they said to me now this is God's grace but if if you ever do this again we will [music] have to turn you into the place >> and where would these where would that conversation take >> in no in their house at their kitchen And I kept going to their church. >> And did how detailed did you converation? >> Oh, I had told I told him that I was taking people's lives by giving them addresses. >> What were you specific with names? How much influenced you when you were doing this? >> No. >> How many people? >> I don't know if I told him how many people did that I was doing it. I want him to stop. >> Okay. And his response was to pray for you and pray over you. >> Yeah. Put put his hands on me and have his foot put his hands on me [music] and pray. >> What uh what religion did that practice? >> Uh >> okay. >> Yeah. >> Um did Helen have any family that you recall that would come? >> She had a niece that loved her very much and was there at least twice a week. Did you ever converse with her >> before before she died? Yeah. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. >> How old is she? >> Say in the late 50s, early 60s. >> Denise. >> Denise. Yeah. >> Helen or something? >> 90s. >> All right. >> Did you speak to her following Helen? Her niece. >> What? >> What was that? I think it was a day or two after when she was gathering her stuff and she cried on my shoulder to thank me for being a good nurse. >> Any other feelings that you had at that point? >> Oh, guilt, shame, anger, like I had betrayed her. Not that I was betrayed, but betrayal that I betrayed her. >> And did you display any emotion at that point to her? Um, I just, you know, gave her a hug back and said I was so sorry. But at that point, I was getting very confused about was this God and was it not? And when you resumed doing this, did you have any besides the religious feelings that you were having, did you have any other uh personal um feelings in your mind as as far as knowing the difference between right and wrong again? >> Yes. Yes, I knew the difference between right and wrong, but I thought this was something that God or whoever wanted me to do it. >> Starting at that point to to doubt that it was God >> when you resumed doing it. >> Yeah. >> Okay. All right. >> Was anyone working with you on that day that you can recall? >> Um, the PSWs, but I don't remember their names. >> Okay. >> How many would have there been? >> Three. >> Okay. >> There would have been students too, I think, >> but I can't remember. >> And there would have been 32 patients in that wing as well. >> Yes. >> That you're responsible for. Okay. Um, March of 2014. This is Marine picturing at Care. >> Yeah. >> Tell me about Marine. >> Marine was a handful. >> Um, she would attack other patients. She would pull their hair. She would hit them. She would pinch them. >> The story never completely broke. It was adjusted. Small details slid, timelines softened, and facts bent [music] just enough to protect her. That wasn't fear setting in. It was a strategy. Even when boxed in, she stayed three moves ahead, rewriting the narrative as she spoke. >> And then while I was in the Toronto, it was in Camh. Well, I told my friend before I ever went, I've told my cousin. I told my friend and I told my friend and then while I was in Cam H, I told um someone who I thought was a friend. I turned around and called the police to make sure that it had really been dealt with. And I understand that he thought he was doing the right thing. I understand that. But he had said, "Oh, I won't tell anybody." and I had using him as a resource for support and he turned around >> right >> when I was when I'd already you know I'd already shared it so why would he call the police >> so why do you think that none of these people confronted police >> maybe they didn't believe me I don't know maybe they just thought maybe they thought I was doing more something than the patient wanted you know >> and as far as believing you are these close people to you that you shared other deep dark secrets with maybe over time. >> I I would say secrets with lots of stuff. Yeah, >> cuz this is a pretty serious thing. >> Yes, it is horrible. >> I'm telling you. >> It's the worst thing. >> Telling these people, I just find it hard to believe that no one would come forward until five, six people down the road, right? Having knowledge of it. >> Yeah, I hear you. Yeah. And everything that you're telling us is the truth? >> Yes, it is. Yes, sir. >> Nothing that's been fabricated? >> No, sir. >> And you're sure about that? >> I know. So, >> what would we find in your home? Did you ever document any of this activity at all? >> Once in a while, I journaled on it. There it might there might be some in my home, but I don't know. I think I threw it out. Um if if it's around it will be in like a spiral binder in um either my desk, my other desk or my uh f my um whatchamacallit. Come on. You put file files folders in there. >> Yeah. File cabinets. That's cool. And that's >> Do you live alone? >> Yes, I did. >> Yes. Did you want someone to come with me or not? >> Well, to be honest with you, as a part of the investigation, there's already been search for and executed at your house. >> Oh, so you thought it's already been >> I don't know what stage it's at because we've been conversing for quite some time. >> It's probably close to being completed. >> Okay. >> But I'm just asking because you've been so cooperative. >> Yeah. >> And and again, I do appreciate that. >> Yeah, >> I really do. >> Um it just makes things a lot easier, right? um advising us where certain things might be. And you said you might have thrown them out. >> Yeah. >> You might not have >> I might not have kept them. And then at the very end of my coffee table, there's a box and it's got pictures and uh a photo album of them in it. There might be something in there, too. >> What would be a a Trinity um writing path? >> Okay. What types of things? What types of things did you document? >> Just what I had done, how bad I felt, when it happened. Just trying to figure out what was going on in my head. >> Mhm. >> Searching for answers. >> Yeah. >> But you're not sure if you have rid of those or not yet. >> I thought I got rid of them all, but I don't know if I did for sure. >> Would there be anything else as far as computer documents or anything like that? Um, there would be I accessed a uh computer support group for borderline personality disorder. >> It would be on that. It would be on that website. >> Oh, it's just an open forum that you could join and Yeah. >> and post comments and >> Yeah. >> What website was that? >> I couldn't tell you, but I could find it on my computer. >> And would that be something that you'd be willing to share with us? >> Of course. >> Give us good time to >> Yep. documents and computer websites and whatnot. >> Yeah. >> What's your tattoo? >> Hopes and dreams. >> Does that mean that >> that I have hopes for the future and dreams of the future? >> Yeah. >> As the interrogation neared its end, the office slipped in a cryptic question and it revealed something unsettling. Despite everything, she still had her affairs carefully in order. >> What are your plans going forward from here? >> Going forward from here, I want to go home. Okay. >> I want to have a good night's sleep. >> Okay. >> I want to spend uh Thanksgiving weekend with my family. >> Okay. >> And I want to be available to the police at any time they need me. >> And if I have to come back for a trial, I have to come back for trial. I have no plans of leaving. Um I can surrender to my car if you want me to. >> Are your parents are you close with your parents? Like what type of relationship do you have with them? >> Very very close. I have to tell them tonight what's happened >> with mom and dad. >> Yes. They know that um they know that I've been in they know that I've been in the hospital, but I just told them it was for treatment. But yeah, my plan tonight is to go and talk to them oneon one like face to face and tell them. >> What do you think their reaction is going to be? >> They're going to be devastated. >> What do you think? >> I'm going to I'm going to plan on stay sp staying the night there. Okay. >> So they have access to me. >> Okay. What type of support do you think they're going to get from there? >> Eventually. all the support I need. Okay. I also plan to go to my AA groups. I had planned on doing 90 meetings in 90 days and uh just keep up with like I plan to uh see one of the things happens with me is I isolate and then I start to not do well. So I plan to you do the Thanksgiving thing, keep up with my friends, clean clean my apartment, tell my parents. Those are my plans. I have no plans to leave town. This is I've done this and I'm ready to face it, but I would love to call for this. >> I think that's going to happen. >> Bless you. >> Okay. I think that's going to happen. As I said at the very very beginning of this, whatever time we started about hours ago, um you're not under arrest right now. >> Okay. >> Okay. But as you can imagine, call you back in 30 minutes. >> That was my cousin. >> Gotcha. Um, as I said at the beginning, you're not under arrest. >> Okay. >> But as you can imagine, investigation like this >> is something that we've never dealt with. It's something that doesn't happen very often. something that >> you rarely hear about, >> right? >> Okay. >> I don't know of many, but you're not the first person to do this, >> right? >> Okay. Having said that, we have a responsibility to protect the public. >> She was charged with eight counts of first-degree murder for intentionally [music] killing eight elderly patients, four counts of attempted murder for deliberately trying and failing to kill four others, and two counts of aggravated assault for intentionally harming two more. Elizabeth stood as a disturbing example of how far a trusted professional could fall. Much like Melissa, who shoplifted nearly $900 worth of merchandise despite earning over a quarter of a million dollars a year. >> You're detained right now for a shoplifting investigation. Okay, >> you're good. >> I'm so nervous. >> Okay, >> I'll be honest with you. >> Yes. >> You've never been caught before, [music] but now that we're here, >> right? I mean, $900 worth of stuff is crazy. On Tuesday, December the 12th, 2023, Albuquerque police were called in after loss prevention spotted a [music] habitual shoplifter. This wasn't anything new, but things got a lot more interesting once the officers caught up with a woman who happened to be the suspect. >> Four, three, two. >> She's pushing the cart. >> One, >> you want to talk or you want me to talk? You Ma'am, let's go inside. We need to talk to you. You're detaining right now for your baking. Okay. Okay. >> Let's go inside. >> Okay. >> I'll take this. I'll take this. Keep your >> hands out of your pocket. Keep >> your hand out of your pocket. >> Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. >> Controller. >> Yep. >> Do you have any weapons on you, ma? No, I do not. >> Okay, >> let's take a seat here. >> Yes. >> Do you have a an ID on you? >> Um, I don't. >> Let's see. No, I do not. >> Okay. >> I have it in my car. >> Okay. Do you know why you're in this office right now? >> Yes. >> Okay. What's your social? >> Uh, >> okay. There's somebody expecting you at home right now. Kids, husband. >> I have I have an ex spouse. >> Okay. I'm going to tell you like I told you when we're coming in, you're detained right now for a short business investigation. Okay? So, we're going to see what's the total and I'm going to be very transparent with you. They have more cases uh work against you. Okay? >> I have seen that face. I if if I have a dollar for every time that I see that face, I I wouldn't be doing this. >> Yeah. >> So, they'll give me all the information and I'll explain you everything what's going on. Okay. I just going to do a quick pat down because I noticed that you were reaching your pockets. >> Okay. Lean forward for me, please. >> Thanks. I'm going to remove this from you. You guys good? >> Yes, sir. You good? Just so nervous. >> Okay. Are you all right? God. According to loss prevention, Target already had three open cases with Albuquerque police tied to her, but none had gone anywhere because her identity had stayed a mystery. But this time around, that finally changed. [music] The suspect was identified as Melissa Ivvis, the associate chief medical officer for UNM Medical Group. >> How many cases you have? >> Uh, one, two, three, four. >> Okay. And yeah, she's fre. >> You want to be you want her to be criminal trans from this location? >> Yes. >> Do you have a vehicle parked outside, ma'am? >> Yes, sir. >> Is it a Nissan Armada? >> Yes. Yes. So, you probably know that we know what we're doing, right? And they've been looking at you for very long time. >> So, they did not know that. >> Okay. Well, I'm telling you now. They've been looking at you, right? And so, and they know and they've been looking at you in the other Targets as well. >> Okay. >> So, he's going to give me a total for the whole merchandise. And we're going I'm going to ask you more questions in a second. Okay. Do >> you use any type of narcotics, man? >> No, not at all. >> Okay. Do you have to take any medications? No. >> Okay. If you sit straight, you're probably going to be able to breathe better. >> I'm sorry. What? >> If you sit straight, you're going to be able to breathe better. >> Sorry. Say that again. >> If you sit straight, probably be able to like lean against the wall if you have to. >> Okay. >> Thank you. I was supposed the day the total and the number came at like a doctor's office or something. All these Miranas change the Miranas. >> Yeah, >> I have the new one. >> Okay, ma'am. At this point, you're going to be under arrest for shoplifting. Okay. Okay. with the within the last 90 days you've been catching camera shoplifting around $940 which is a New Mexico is a felony. Okay. So um you also is going to be criminal trespass on the property. I give you a copy in a second. Okay. So do me a favor. Stand up for me please. Face away. Face away from me. Put your hands behind your back. >> Yeah, you can fix your pants. >> Okay. Put your hands behind your back and put it your hands together like you're praying. Put your hands together like you pray. There you go. >> I already asked you this. You said you don't have any weapons, but I'm going to ask you again. Do you have any weapons? >> No, I don't. >> Do you have any needles here? >> No, I don't. >> What's going to happen? >> Well, you're going to jail right now. >> Oh, God. >> Okay. You're going to jail. Um charged with felony uh shoplifting right now. Okay. >> Oh my god. >> We'll search you outside. Okay. >> Thank you very according to Target, Melissa had shoplifted from that store three separate times in under 30 days, racking up roughly $900 in stolen items. All while public records showed that she was making more than a quarter of a million dollars a year. >> Um, I'll give you a copy in a second try for the city. >> I'm the one that can read English. Okay. >> Okay. >> We'll secure your car and make sure it's everything okay. phones in the car. >> Okay, >> get all that. >> I'm going to tell you right off the bat, we cannot enter your vehicle. >> Okay, >> the most that we can do is secure your vehicle. So, whatever is inside the vehicle, we can take anything out of it. >> Okay. >> Okay. So, if your phone is in the car, you have to stay in the car. >> We can make sure the vehicle's locked and tell uh target >> you can't take the keys out of the car. You can >> We will check. Where's the keys at? I think they're right on my um uh like right in the center console. >> Okay. >> So, we'll ask Target >> if they're okay if you can leave your vehicle here cuz today's Wednesday and I'm going to be honest really honest with you, Melissa. Okay. I haven't ran your information yet. >> Yes. >> Right. >> However, in my experience for shoplifting, even if it's a felony, is not a violent crime. Okay. Okay. >> So, you might going to be out of jail tomorrow afternoon at the latest Friday. Tomorrow or Friday in the morning. >> So, it's not like you're going to stay in jail for >> Oh my god. >> You know what I mean? >> Okay. I I don't have any record of anything. >> Okay. Well, we'll double check that. Okay. Let's face here the vehicle, please. We need to take out everything out of your pockets cuz you're under arrest. Okay. >> You can take everything out of my pockets. Do you have any more merchandise in you that that you you didn't pay? >> I don't think so. >> Okay. You you can you can stop moving, please. >> Okay. >> Can you help me check in the Yes, I check the pockets. You just need to check the the inner brow, please. >> I'm going to check your test area. >> Is there any way that I control the the >> Are you hiding? I'm hiding. Okay, sir. You still? >> Yep. Go and have a seat. Okay. Just come over a little bit to your right. I'm so sorry. I'm sorry. >> It happens, ma'am. Just >> No, it doesn't. It's just bad. It's so bad. >> Happens more often than you think. >> Yeah, but >> I'll be honest with you, Melissa. >> We're in 2023, Melissa. >> You know where's the only place that they don't have cameras? >> I don't know. >> In the bathroom. >> The cameras all over. We have cameras. >> They have cameras all over the the store. >> The only reason why you haven't been detained under arrest before is because when they have called us before, we've been busy. >> Yeah. >> But they've been looking for you. >> I do not know. >> But you have $940 already in merchandise in Melissa. >> You know what I mean? Like I I can't even afford that right now. There's a lot of money. Okay. So, I get it. You feel bad now, but there's a there's a little wakeup call for you to stop doing that. Okay. >> Yes. I agree. >> Melissa knew that she had just torched her career, but her method of damage control was the last thing anyone would have expected from a doctor. >> And I I won't get out tonight. No, >> no, there's no Well, I don't think so, Melissa. I'm being honest with you. Yep. You don't have any any record. [music] So, that's the most that's the dumbest way to get a record in your um >> Okay, >> that's okay. I'm not I'm not >> I have no record. >> Yeah, you guys are very nice. I'm just so sorry that I >> Okay, people make mistakes, Melissa. Like, like my partner mentioned right now, we're here to correct those mistakes. Okay. >> I know. I'm so sorry. It's just I wish I could. I know. I know you can't, but I wish I could just have a a warning because I just I've never done this. I mean, I've never like done I've never gotten this trouble ever and I just >> Well, here's the thing. I'll be honest with you. >> Yes. >> You've never been caught before is the thing. Okay. >> But now that we're here, >> right? I mean, $900 worth of stuff is crazy. My partner and I can't even go out and buy stuff like that for $900. I mean, there's depressing and I don't know if it's like something that made me feel better or something. I'm not going to divorce just >> try to hold it together for your boys. Okay. >> I know. >> Just own up. Own up to what you did, right? Own up to [music] it. Yeah, you did it, but now you're paying the consequences to whatever you decided to do and you're going to fix it, right? We're not going to see you shoplifting anymore, right? >> I will. No, no, no. >> Cuz we'll remember your face, Melissa. Okay. And it'll be a really stupid thing for you to do. >> Yes, I'm not going to do it. >> Perfect. >> There's no question about it. >> Perfect. Make sure you show up to court and do everything you have to do. Okay. >> Okay, let's go start driving so we can finish the paperwork. and the sooner I book you, the sooner you. >> In the end, Melissa was arrested and charged with shoplifting more than $500, but less than 2.5K. But the case was later dropped after she completed a diversion program. After reporting the incident, she was placed on paid leave and removed from her role by January the 16th, 2024, and her resignation became official on May the 17th. Next up is 48-year-old Amanda Harris Hickey, a daycare owner whose negligence came to light following the passing of a 4-month-old little one named Charlie Kron Miller. Found him face down in the bed, not breathing, not conscious, not alert. Uh CPR in progress, no shock advised on the AED. >> You can't predict the future. I understand. I just don't know what to >> What is she being arrested for? Felony murder and cruelty to children in the second degree. >> On March the 2nd, 2021, at around 400 p.m. in Duny, Georgia, a daycare meant to offer comfort and peace that just turned into a train wreck. Parents and officers in uniform rushed in trying to prevent a bad situation from getting even worse as worried witnesses stood frozen in disbelief. A place designed to ease burdens had become the setting for an unthinkable [music] scene. >> Have her go in the ambulance with them. Scottish, right, ma'am. Get >> go in the ambulance right there. They're they're getting ready to go. This is mom. Hey guys, right here. Breathing. >> Still CPR. >> Yeah. >> All right. >> The officers and paramedics rushed into the house and immediately began emergency treatment, clinging to the hope that somehow a miracle could come from nothing but desperation and silent prayers. >> Face down. >> He's laying face down in the bed. >> Analyzing heart rhythm. >> Stay clear of patient. Analyzing heart. No shock advised. >> Let's go. Let's go. >> Be sure emergency medical service. Is this yours, child? >> Investigators later identified the owner of Little Lovey Daycare as 48-year-old Amanda Harris Hickey, and the four-month-old little one involved was identified as Charles, known to family as Charlie Kronm Miller. The investigation took full swing as the detectives began with the most important questions about how it all began. >> So, this I have a family on daycare. This is one of my clients. >> Okay. Have we contacted them yet? >> No, I haven't called anyone or done anything yet. >> Go ahead and call them. >> Yeah, go ahead. Let's go and call them. I put him to bed on his back, but his parents say that he could roll over, but I had never seen him. >> What time did you call that moment? >> I can show you. Um, I was [music] quite >> [ __ ] flipped out. >> So, I I dialed it and then I think I just kept hitting it and then I think this was them calling you me back. >> Does Charlie suffer from any medical diagnosis that you know of? >> [crying] >> And I'm sure you've already talked to other officers. Can you tell me kind of what happened? >> Charlie was having a a normal day according to his normal schedule. He was scheduled to be at [crying] 3:00. >> Mhm. >> Slept [screaming] a little like I had heard from him. So I just let him sleep and then about 3:40 I went in responsive stuff. >> Okay. >> I put him to sleep on his back. >> Okay. >> Unresponsive. I'm still in the process of getting everyone out of bed. So, this guy's still sitting here cuz um so this is the bed that Charlie was in. >> Okay, I'm just going to take a quick overview of the whole room real quick and then >> Sorry. No, you're fine. >> Keep his face out of it. I guess [crying] he's probably the best thing in the two. I don't know. >> Well, he's not going to be in it. >> Okay, >> there you go. >> So, [crying] I lay Charlie on his back and I found him in the corner. >> This corner. >> And she has rolled here. >> Uhhuh. [crying] >> Into this position here. >> Was there a mat or is it the mat? That's the mat he was laying on. [crying] [clears throat] >> So, you said you put him down at what time? >> Um, a little bit after 2:00, I believe. That would be his normal schedule, like 2 or 2:30. [music] >> And then he would typically um he would have slept and then had a bottle at 3. >> Okay. So, you came down at 2:45. >> 3:45. >> 3:45. >> I mean, obviously, if I would have known we were having an emergency, I wouldn't have let him sleep, but I thought he was just tired. for still sleeping. His bottle was scheduled for 3:00. >> So, I have his bottle on the counter ready to go like waiting for him to wake up. >> So, this is just a and you just show me again like that's for the front and this is the back. If >> you just show me how you laid him and then how you found him. Let me take a picture. Did you see that? >> Yeah, I left it open cuz it needs to be drained. It hadn't uh it's not draining through the hose and the buckets full. I was going to let you know that. >> All right. Take a picture of it. Close it for now. >> Yeah, that's fine. >> Just so no one thinks that was open, >> right? >> No, you're fine. You don't have to move it. That's fine. Right here is good. The light. >> Okay. >> Show me how you placed them. Sure. And do a picture and then show me how you found them. Ready? Okay. [snorts] >> And there was another child in there. So you put him down and picked one up, right? >> I did. >> So he was in there by himself. >> He was. Yes. Yes. >> Yes. >> There was a switch. >> Okay. Then if you show me how >> all of her answers sounded carefully [music] tailored, especially when she was asked how she had let the little one lie down, something investigators later realized that she [music] lied about her calm, almost cold demeanor made one thing clear. She wasn't giving the officers a single opening to poke holes in her [music] story. But the paramedics have their own theory. >> 6-year-old or no, excuse me, six-month-old baby was put down for a nap at this house by looks like in home caretakers came down. Hey, Dylan, what time did they come down and find him? >> Uh, right before they called. >> Okay. Put came down to check on the baby right before they called. Found him face down in the bed, not breathing, not conscious, not alert. Uh, CPR in progress. No shock advised on the AED. >> Soon, Charlie's mother arrived at the scene and the [music] contrast was striking. While Amanda Harris spoke in a flat measured tone, almost like she was pricing apple. The atmosphere shifted immediately. Have her go in the ambulance with them. Scottish, right, ma'am. Getting go in the ambulance right there. They're they're getting ready to go. This is mom. >> As the ambulance prepared to rush Charlie to [music] the hospital, investigators began a careful sweep of the house, slowly connecting dots scattered across the scene, even though they had [music] clearly been meant to stay hidden. So, I noticed you have cameras. They do. >> They record 24/7. >> Um, I believe so. Yeah. >> Or is it just motion? >> That's a great question. I'm not positive. >> Okay, that's okay. Would we be able to access those? >> I think so. >> You get the footage >> like the like the families don't It's not like coming to share with the family. That's a close. >> No. Yeah. No, I understand the mattress pad. She said that was the mattress pad, but it looks like it's >> there's no pad in there. >> I know. That's what I said. But she said that's what he was sleeping on. >> They're all like that, though. >> I didn't want to manipulate it, so I haven't touched it yet. But [snorts] >> he was found face down in that corner, >> top left corner. Uh, she put them back and he she says he must have rolled over, but they do have a camera in here >> right there. Like it's not Is it going to capture that? >> I don't know. See that? >> The discoloration on the pad. >> Yeah, I see it, man. And then the discoloration on the um actual uh the brown. >> Yeah. >> Okay. I was just thinking if S was coming. >> Go ahead and get the the child out. I'm just going to keep looking through for a minute if that's okay. And I'll be here when you come back. I'm not going anywhere. [snorts] After the video footage was handed over to the officers, Amanda appeared in a different light, far from how she had come across while answering the detective's questions. >> I don't know what to tell them, either. [laughter] >> Tell them if baby had an emergency and >> I can I can escort you out when you drop the babies off. You have any questions, I can answer those for you. >> I can do that for you to help. >> It's going to be really hard for you to talk. Really hard. Okay. [laughter] >> A baby have you didn't I mean nothing. [music] >> So what I just don't know I don't I don't know what I just Yes. I'll just need I'll just need an escort to >> give them So you hear me give them the same message to everybody. I'm not sure what [snorts] that message is yet, but I need to tell them all something. We had an emergency. What do I tell them? We had an emergency here today. >> Yeah. >> And and I'm going to be closed to like I don't my clothes I don't >> I mean as of right now this is just a um [laughter] I mean it's all under investigation. We we have to figure out kind of a few more things before we can classify it one way or the other. Okay. I don't see any signs of malicious intent here. [laughter] This we're not leaning towards that by no means. Um but I can't sit here and tell you that without a doubt. No, I I don't you can't predict the future. I understand that. I just don't know what to tell them >> to tell them that you know that you had an emergency. A child had to be rushed to the hospital and leave it at that. Technically, you can't share any more information right there. So, >> I don't know. That's all you got to tell them. >> Yep. >> Tell them. >> And if they have questions, um our officers here will be glad to to help out and then believe this has happened. Meanwhile, emergency responders rush Charlie and his mother to the hospital. >> This is mom right here. >> Okay. >> Where can I go? >> Yes. Just come in. Okay. >> Back at Amanda's daycare, officers and investigators kept up a thorough sweep of the house while they waited for updates [music] from the hospital about the unfolding nightmare. Do >> we have an update on the hospital yet? They've given him they've given him a bunch of rounds of epinephrine, but >> it's looking like it's >> Yeah, there's there's no signs of lighting. I think they're talking. >> Yeah, >> they're I'll let y'all know here in a minute, but I expected I'm going to get the official doctor's with the parents. They done about six rounds of epinephrine. >> Mhm. Sorry. And um >> it's not officially called yet, but they're talking with the parents and uh it looks like there's no signs of life. So since he gives me the [crying] final official word, I'll let you know. >> Unfortunately, Charlie passed away. That immediately spelled trouble for Amanda. The signs of foul play were clear. But the question remained, how would the officers piece together the dots and show how it all began and ended right under her nose? medical examiner will do an examination on Charlie tomorrow to try to determine what happened, what what the cause of manner of death is that he may know that information tomorrow. That information may take weeks [music] depending on different tests that they have to run and things like that. So, I can't guarantee you that that information will be available tomorrow. But once the case is completed [music] and that means once the medical examiner completes their examination, they get the findings, they have to write it up. Um, then I also have to turn in my investigative report and the whole file has to be approved by a supervisor. So there's kind of a chain of events. >> Sure. >> Um, but once that's complete, you can get a copy of the autopsy report if you would like it. Uh, simply request. Charlie's parents eventually [music] returned to the scene, still struggling to process how their little one had been taken from them, likely seeking some sense of closure and a clearer understanding of what had happened. >> All right, sir. I'm not going to hold you here for right now. I am Detective Taffer. I work with the Dowy police. Okay, I'm going to go ahead and let y'all go home. Um, I got some phone numbers for y'all. Let me make sure they're correct cuz I will be coming over later or at least following up with you. After a thorough check of the house, the officers concluded everything they had seen so far. >> I haven't found anything today that leads towards any type of malicious intent. You know, I can say that as of right now, and I don't foresee that on this. >> At first, it seemed the storm had passed for Amanda, but a few days later, a knock came at her door. Her sins refused [music] to stay buried. Hey, Miss Amanda. Oh, >> can you step out here for just a minute, please? Okay. I want you to turn around and face me and put your hands on your back. Okay. You are being placed under arrest. >> Okay. >> Okay. Do you want to talk to me? If so, we can go back to the police department. We can talk. If not, you're going to go straight to the cab jail. >> Yes. >> You do want to talk to me? >> Yes. >> Okay. So, then we'll go back and we'll discuss it at the interview room and then from there, you'll be released to the jail. Okay. >> Okay. >> Can I tell anyone inside the desk that's where I'm going? >> Who's in there? >> My daughter? >> Yeah. Let me call her down to the door. >> Sure. >> What's her name? >> Natalie. [music] >> Natalie. Miss Natalie, >> can you come here for a moment, please? Close off right now. Your mom's gonna go with us, okay? Headquarters for right now. She wants to talk to me and then from there she'll be turned over to the Cap County Jail. Once she gets to the jail, she'll be able to make phone calls and call and let you know about bonding and things like that. But it's probably going to be a couple of days before she gets a bond. Okay. >> Okay. So, I just wanted to let you know >> 133. >> What? Just so I can tell our attorney what is she being arrested for? >> Arrested felony murder and cruelty of children in the second degree. >> Afterwards, she arrived at the station, but Amanda looked like she had come ready for whatever was waiting. >> Probably need to stop. I I didn't hear you say felony heard you say felony murder and I I I wasn't aware of that. So I probably need somebody else here. So if we need to go I understand. >> So you don't want to talk to me? >> Well I would love to but I don't that is [music] um I think that's big and I think I need someone else here. Does that make sense? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> So you might as well stay the transform. I understand. and you have an opportunity to decide on whether or not you want to talk to me or not. >> I don't know what to do. So, I I guess we should just move me along. I think I don't I don't know what the right thing to do is. So, um I don't I don't know what the right thing to do is. So, >> so you don't want to try to talk and get some questions answered? >> I don't think so. I don't think it's going to change anything at this point. So, >> Amanda kept her lips sealed, [music] but staying quiet wouldn't be enough to stop what was coming. She was then booked into the county jail. >> What's your last name? P H I C E Y. Were you a vehicle accident today? >> After Amanda was moved to a new facility, detectives went back to Charlie's parents, whose reaction was far from what anyone had expected. >> There's my demonstrator. Hey, bud. >> Hey. Go. >> So, I'm just going to use this door as her door. [clears throat] Excuse me. So, he was standing kind of like this, you know, looking out the window there. So, she comes up and then and then Mr. Graham was standing next to him. So, she walks up and opens the door, right? And his feet are hitting it, stopping the door for a moment. She does that four times. Okay. Then you can tell that she gets annoyed by that. And that's when she grabs him, [music] right? One one arm on each spins around. Okay. Okay. And it's it's open here, so he doesn't hit anything. So when he spins around, she's not paying attention. She's still looking at the door and then drops him. So when he hits the ground, >> his feet come up up over his head. He kind of rolls up. >> Uhhuh. >> And his feet move over to the side. So that shows me a couple things. One, it wasn't just a gentle set down >> cuz his feet continued to move in the direction that he was last his momentum was going right from the from that sling. I have two kids of my own and I wouldn't want them to be handled that way. Uh, has he ever I know you said he's been normal, but he got tubes put in, but that's, you know. >> Yeah. >> Has he ever come home with anything that you can remember? I know I asked that the other day. [music] >> Yeah. No. Um, >> no. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> And y'all never had any problems with the with Amanda? >> No. >> In the end, she was charged with seconddegree murder, reckless [music] conduct, and multiple counts of cruelty.