Now, continuing our effort to ask the right questions in connection with the five Memphis police officers charged in the beating death of Tyre Nichols. First of all, let's be clear, no one I've talked to, cops, lawyers, think that what was seen on that video isn't criminal. It's all hard to believe, it's sickening, so you can understand politically why the elected DA felt he had to throw every book he could think of at the officers. But from a legal perspective, in an effort to make a statement to the public, they also may have actually overcharged them and even potentially endangered their case. Justin Smith, Desmond Mills Jr., Emmit Martin III, Demetrius Haley, and Tadarrius Bean each face the same charges, second-degree murder, aggravated assault, aggravated kidnapping, official misconduct, official oppression. And remember that each case will be resolved separately. Each officer's actions scrutinized, ultimately judged on its own. But putting aside the aggravated kidnapping for a moment, in Tennessee, second-degree murder is defined in part as a knowing killing of another. And the quote, "In a prosecution for a violation of this section, if the defendant knowingly engages in multiple incidents of domestic abuse, assault, or the infliction of bodily injury against the single victim, the trier of fact may infer that the defendant was aware that the cumulative effect of the conduct was reasonably certain to result in the death of the victim, regardless of whether any single incident would have resulted in the death." So, prosecutors are going to have to prove that each of these five officers effectively knew that what they were doing was reasonably certain to result in Nichols' death. Now, that's going to be tough. But maybe not a tough second-degree murder defense. Again, doesn't mean they're not going to be found guilty of something serious, and it doesn't mean I'm defending their conduct, but we still have to abide by laws, we have to abide by statutes. And there are real cautionary tales that prosecutors should heed going into this, like the case against the officers charged in the death of Freddie Gray in Baltimore. Gray was arrested with what some said was unnecessary force and then placed unsecured in the back of a police van for 40 minutes, where the medical examiner said he suffered injuries during the ride. When officers got to the police station, he was unresponsive, doctors later discovering his neck had been broken. He died a week later. Then after several days of violent protests in Baltimore, where one point the Maryland National Guard was called in, the six officers involved were charged with offenses ranging from second-degree depraved heart murder to reckless endangerment and voluntary manslaughter. In the end, not one officer was convicted of anything. Then Baltimore City uh States Attorney Marilyn Mosby, who was initially lauded for filing the charges, later skewered for overcharging and failing to get a conviction on a single charge. Look, it is not apples to apples. There's no video in Gray's case, no repeated documented blows by officers. But it's clear prosecutors in the Nichols case feared the backlash from that video. They moved quickly to file charges. That was smart. But in their rush, were the prosecutors shortsighted with the charges? Voluntary manslaughter in Tennessee probably would not apply because that's defined as the intentional or knowing killing of another in a state of passion produced by adequate provocation sufficient to lead a reasonable person to act in an irrational manner. And what would have been the adequate provocation here? But involuntary manslaughter, and specifically reckless homicide, sure could fit the bill with a possible sentence of 2 to 12 years in prison. Let's ask Tennessee-based criminal defense attorney and former Nashville police officer David Ridings. He's also served as a prosecutor in the Nashville District Attorney's Office. Thanks very much for coming on the show. Appreciate it. All right, so what do you make of the murder charge here? Well, thank you, Dan, for having me. I'm honored to be on the show. Um I I think you've summed it up correctly. The uh second-degree homicide is going to be a tough mountain uh for the prosecution to climb. I don't um I'm like everybody else that's watched this video. It's It's appalling. Um these officers I'm I'll take uh I'm I'm really um proud of the down there for taking swift action and firing each one of them because I I've always said when you find a bully cop, you you eradicate them. That's what you do. And he did that quickly. Yep. Uh and but charging them with secondary homicide, I think was probably an overreaction based upon the howl outcry of the public. And I mean, I don't necessarily blame them. I I just think it's going to be a tough charge for the prosecution to make. To make to make those elements behind it. And does it seem to you like the reason that they charged them with that instead of involuntary manslaughter? And again, involuntary manslaughter in Tennessee has a number of different ways you can get it. There's the higher degree of it is the reckless homicide where, you know, you're talking about a serious felony there. Um you think that would have been the more appropriate charge? I think that's more likely of an outcome in a in a jury trial. Now, they may end up uh entering a plea to uh voluntary manslaughter, which is a a C felony 3 to 6, so they don't take the risk of of going to trial and losing on the second degree. A a criminal defense attorney can negotiate something less than a second degree uh and maybe more than a reckless homicide. The prosecution clearly wants um wants a lot of prison time. And reckless homicide in Tennessee really I know 2 to 12 sounds like a a long time, uh but for you know, homicide, it it's not always viewed as a as uh the best outcome for the prosecution. And on a range one offender, it's not 2 to 12, it's 2 to 4. Yep. And these guys are all range one offenders. They've got no record. So, they're all police officers, so they I say they've got no record. I'm presuming that they did a good background check on these guys and they've got no record. So, they'd be range one 30% offenders, and that's 2 to 4 for reckless homicide. Is it possible that they would bring down the charges at some point after things calm down? I doubt they will I doubt they'll they'll lessen the charges. I think the grand jury probably will come back with with indictments for second degree. But I think they can negotiate something less than second degree for an outcome. I think that's that's likely that they'll negotiate something less than second degree. Very quickly, what do you make of the aggravated kidnapping? They basically say that it became illegal at a certain point and was an unlawful aggravated nature of the charge. What do you make of that? Well, it's an it's an interesting way to go about it. Uh I can't say that I disagree with that charge. Okay. These These officers were way out of bounds. I mean, from the from the first officer that opened the door and yanked the guy out of the car. I mean, that's already he's overreaching. And it just snowballed from there. It was it was a terrible incident. Terrible. Terrible. Yeah. Uh the only question, look, as I said before, they're going to get convicted, I'm convinced, or plead guilty to something serious. The question is just what? But they may have still been overcharged. David Riding, thank you. That does it for us tonight. Van Jones starts now.