strange that people are back here taking pictures of our cars and is it okay though is it legal you're one of those folks aren't you and your responses are what make me even more suspicious where in the code is is suspicion a crime who crossed you that you have to act like this when all we're doing is asking simple questions because you're taking pictures of unmarked police vehicles undercover police vehicles okay squad cars back here welcome back to the lackluster channel today's video is brought to us by daniel robbins a radio producer and journalist his video originally appeared on the media watch youtube channel be sure to check them out and let them know i sent you on may 10 2018 mr robbins observed a police department employee leaving the station get into an illegally parked vehicle and drive away that's when he was approached by detective youngblood of the des moines police department hi taking pictures just random things okay just trying to figure out it's just kind of a little suspicious back here is it a little bit this market street back here is this market street back here the market district is over this way another block i think okay they're doing some redevelopment over here okay are you okay now police vehicles personal police vehicles we've had it's just suspicious okay well are you are you okay now or are you still suspicious you're officers taking pictures what will satisfy your suspicion i don't know maybe i just idea how will that just determine whether or not i'm suspicious i'm just asking dude and i don't understand the difficulty as you're recording me yeah yeah i just it's strange that people are back here taking pictures of our cars is it okay though is it legal you're one of those folks aren't you i'm just asking everything how am i challenging something by taking pictures how how is this i don't know that's why i don't know why you're back here taking pictures you don't know and you've asked and i've told you yes i have are you not listening sir are we gonna have a are we gonna go round and round and round in a circular conversation is it for redevelopment or is it i mean what is it listen what is it going to take for me to dispel your your suspicions well i can take pictures it's perfectly legal right to a certain degree but to a certain degree this is not your house is it do you live here do you live here i work here every day okay will you come by my job anytime you like stand on a public sidewalk and take all the pictures you like officers curtis and leo approach mr robbins and the officers activate their body cams the reason you're leaning on my truck sorry what's going on hi hi can you tell me what's going on well no there's somebody called over here this guy's confronted me you're taking pictures of vehicles that are unmarked police vehicles all i ask you is why are you taking pictures you're getting license plates all that stuff and you've been uh asking rather than just tell me what the pictures are for okay well no because they're unmarked police vehicles that's why your back here is suspicious we've had a couple cars stolen from this reel out we've had cars broken into we got a lot of equipment ease your suspicions an explanation of what you're taking pictures for and why i'm taking pictures because it's perfectly legal for me to do that just because it's illegal just because it's legal doesn't mean it's not suspicious okay so it's suspicious but to take to review so just so you understand your responses are what make me even more suspicious detective youngblood declares that by mr robbins not answering why he is taking pictures that he appears more suspicious and the defense team for the officers claimed that growing concern as a basis for reasonable suspicion he continues to evade questions he provides false information and so from moment to moment that reasonable suspicion is growing we will talk about the lawsuit in a moment as officer leo is about to conduct a terry frisk which also becomes a point of contention in this case and your responses are what make me even more suspicious because you're immediately difficult you get immediately difficult put your hands up there you don't need to consider officer leo tells mr robbins that he doesn't need consent to conduct a search the plainclothed officer officer curtis says it's suspicious activity to which mr robbins replied that's not against the law but officer curtis says that it is only to backtrack that claim after the search during the oral arguments that we will dissect later the officers claim to have frisked mr robbins but the video clearly shows officer leo penetrating mr robin's pockets which violates the boundaries set by terry v ohio it is who are you what's your name my name is sergeant curtis okay sergeant 4802 what's illegal about here's my batch number what's illegal about what is illegal about is nothing okay but you're acting suspicious okay and then when he asks you if you've got any id on you and you're acting suspicious yeah just even get a hold of her you have any idea why do i need id to be a pedestrian what's your name what's your name lieutenant leo okay lieutenant leo what's your name i don't have to give my name you don't no okay actually yeah what's your name actually dude what's the crime suspicious you're backing up that's a question felony or a misdemeanor sir where in the code is is suspicion a crime who crossed you that you have to act like this when all we're doing is asking simple questions because you're taking pictures of unmarked police vehicles undercover police vehicles okay squad cars back here what cite me a code so what organization do you belong to that making you be difficult what is it that you're what is the issue with you as far as i know what is the issue organization i i don't know i don't know if it's one of those just go go go away just go away you're done yeah go away no no sir well you're not allowed out in front of this building how's that i'm not in front of this building that's right this is a public sidewalk then move on down sidewalk it's a public sidewalk sir are you releasing me am i free to go yep okay then i'm free to stay as well it's overweight okay actually you're not so listen why is it no it's not sir yes it is because i am not doing anything wrong loitering requires what you're required to give me your information what is your loitering if you want i can just make a suspicious activity case we can confiscate the the camera until we have a reason for what we're doing just get his information we'll get your information i'll confiscate the camera until we know you have a legitimate purpose suspicious activity you're suspicious and you're loitering you've had cars stolen out of this live okay it's suspicious i have no problem am i detained at this point yes you are now i have your id i don't sir mr robbins is now officially detained for suspicious activity and loitering because he wouldn't leave a public place but the iowa code of ordinances section 70-38 and 39 both necessitate hindrance or obstruction to free passage to be applicable mr robbins has searched again it is also important to note at this point in the interaction that detective youngblood orders the seizure of mr robin's camera and phone tells him that he's under arrest and declares that they'll figure out what to charge him with later claiming that it was a consensual conversation until mr robbins had an attitude it will later be argued in court that the arrest was retaliatory and the defense will claim that mr robbins was never actually under arrest what are you doing what are you doing investigating suspicious activity what's your last name sir it was a consensual conversation but rather than just talk to me you talk to me with an attitude accept the way you confronted me sir okay well it's all recorded so we got that going for us so it really wasn't any issue what's your last name sir and if you don't give it to us john doe do you understand interference with official acts words i do i absolutely do but you don't have that this is the last chance you have to give us your information okay and this is by because the threat of arrest of course it is but i don't have to if i'm not if i'm not you're under arrest i don't need to listen perfect i haven't you want to call it somebody with a camera hey because every single one of you this is a guy who's come down here for this exact purpose no it's it's not angry what action can i say that will cause you all to misbehave [Music] i don't want to be held against my wounds why are you down here taking that no point did i want to be healthy i can't answer that ken his name and all that yeah put the camera on property until he can give me a logical you practice law enforcement so next time before you come down here i suggest you read the code on trespass loitering so get yourself up to speed on those because you're going to talk yourself right into jail next time do you understand 7 24. we're going to check your warrants and then you can move on down the road well here are we confiscating this until we know what reason he's down here in the suspicious activity no i'm going to confiscate for suspicious activity until you can you think it's involved 724 can you show me out at 25 east first okay you don't know if there's been a crime nope we're going to investigate though okay my card so you know outside confirmed whether or not a crime occurred okay well you actually did exactly what you accomplished you came down here you made a scene you ready right you know there might be pictures of the federal building on there too yeah he's down here doing it here he's probably doing it other government-owned facilities simply was asking your suspicious nature you're taking photographs down here i'm going to confiscate your camera at this point in time i don't know your reasoning you have to give me any logical reasoning other than you'd like to challenge authority today other than that i don't know what your reasoning or logic is i hope it is not for nefarious deeds for that purpose i'm going to confiscate the camera at this point under a suspicious activity situation i don't know what else is on your camera what i may do is when i'm not actively working the homicide that occurred two weeks ago i'll write a search warrant in regards to your camera i'll then download everything that's on your camera because i don't know what else you've taken pictures of given the fact that our police station has been bombed before we've had two cars stolen from this rear lot in recent days you're down here among several undercover cars that are our safety if people were to know who they are i don't know what you're recording but for those purposes i'll probably download that off of there with a search warrant do this suspicious activity once all that is completed and i have all that information i'll probably at that point be able to return your camera to you at that point in time but not until then given the circumstances i'm going to advise you of trespass for down here 25 east first street if you have reason to come to the police station please make arrangements to file a complaint you'll need to make arrangements first so that we know you're coming because i don't know yet whether you're down here just to challenge authority or if you actively have some reason that you're back here recording personal vehicles and police officers squad cars our actions are movements given all these details do you understand why you were detained and understand why i'm taking your camera at this point in time and what will be coming in the future i am under no obligation to respond to that have a nice day i'll give you you got my business card and uh if you'd like you might have something on this phone too yeah we should probably take that too just i don't know if you took any photos of that to samsung we could get that search warranty with probable cause there will be under that case number there'll be a property sheet filed in regards to your camera and your phone um i would suggest if you do want to file a complaint in regards to that before this trespass is in effect you might want to just walk up there now and you can go file it i know the office of professional standards is on the second floor you can call 4816 from the lobby desk and they can come down and meet you or you can go up to their office and you can make a formal complaint i know you're recording me as we spoke in regards this again i just was curious what you're down here for it's a beautiful old building people take pictures in front of it all the time but a lot of people don't take pictures of our vehicles and things like that thus the reason for the suspicious nature of what you were doing i know you're under no obligation to ever respond to me because you wish to challenge authority today and be a problem that's my assumption since you've given me no other reason to really suspect anything different i'm going to assume that's what you're here for it was just to create this drama so i'll put all that in the report at some point i'll be done with your phone and camera and we'll make arrangements to get that back to you i hope there's nothing else illegal on it or anything suspicious is your vehicle parked down here some place did you drive here how did you do that devices you don't have sir you might want your readers you don't have a driver's license someone ran them thank you i hope i hope your driver is somewhere nearby waiting for you have a nice day sir mr robbins is now free to go with his camera being seized for suspicious activity detective youngblood explains that he is working a homicide and that he will get a search warrant to review the camera's contents when he is done with his current case suggesting that the property would be seized for an undefined period of time as a way to retaliate against mr robbins the camera was seized for five days and was only returned when demanded by council but youngblood said well i'll get around to that meanwhile you don't get your camera this matter of days uh is that a reasonable length of time to possess someone's property i mean when you when you seize property you have to have some suspicion that it may be evidence of a crime and you seize it for the purposes of getting a warrant and you know that's not a we get to take day's kind of proposition well i mean your honor i felt the facts and you seek a warrant i mean and so why how do you explain the length of the delay and the fact that the property was never returned until it was demanded back by council well i think that i explained that by saying that uh detective youngblood was he didn't say that i'll get to it whenever he said i'm investigating a murder i will get to it as soon as i can and then he did his investigation and returned it so it's it's not that he was uh exploiting the time he he actually said i'm engaged in a in a fairly significant murder investigation right now but i will get to this and he did if robin's if robbins had been a professional photographer and this was his lifeblood what would those five days have cost him thanks to the young bloods well i'll get around to your problem i've got my own mr robbins went on to file a lawsuit against the city and the three officers involved alleging that the officers violated his first and fourth amendment rights and that the city had failed to train their officers properly the defense claimed qualified immunity i've covered qualified immunity numerous times in previous episodes but in general qualified immunity shields government officials from suit unless their conduct violated a clearly established constitutional or statutory right of which a reasonable person would have known the officers and the city were granted qualified immunity because quote the evidence did not establish a retaliatory motive for the stop the summary judgment claims that robin's actions in photographing police cars outside the station created reasonable suspicion among the officers that he was engaged in criminal activity and that after robbins did that and declined to explain his purpose to the officers they had probable cause for a search and seizure in october of 2019 the aclu filed an amicus brief in an attempt to reverse the decision claiming that the district court's finding of qualified immunity was an error and in september of 2020 the case made it to the u.s court of appeals for the 8th circuit where the defense team again claimed that the officers had reasonable suspicion to detain frisk and seize his camera claiming that it wasn't normal to take pictures of license plates the judge responded with the following california takes pictures of cars to see if they're get their license plates so they can ticket them by mail in regards to frisking someone for taking pictures he responded with this they can ask him questions that's constitutionally clearly established they can't pan him down even though mr robbins was told he was under arrest the defense lawyer argued that he was never lawfully arrested he continues to evade questions he provides false information and so from moment to moment that reasonable suspicion is growing but i don't think the use of the word arrest creates an arrest it's the current it's the context it's how is it done the means by which it is done and the duration that's what the case law says not the words that are used and even though she argued that he was never under arrest she claims that the frisk was permitted because of their suspicion that he was engaged in criminal activity unless they had suspicion he was armed and dangerous as well as engaged in something criminal uh they arrested him well i believe that the fact that they suspected him of stalking behavior and ambush activity is what permitted the pat down ambush with ambush with what give me give me a federal appellate case that says a suspicion of ambush by camera permits a terry frisk as of this video's creation the eighth circuit court has not ruled on the officer's qualified immunity and it may be some time until this case is fully resolved for future updates or to listen to the entire oral arguments i highly recommend you subscribe to mediawatch's youtube channel thank you for watching if you have an interaction you'd like me to review email me submit it through facebook messenger or on our new website all links are down below you