If you had to make a guess or if you wanted to tell me, what number would you give me? >> Two more. Three more. Four. Yes. I just know I shot the lady, the kids, and the truck. That's what I saw happen. I didn't feel present, but I know that that it was me. >> So, do you want me to believe that you're insane? I don't care what you believe cuz I don't like you. >> Well, who did it then? >> The [ __ ] devil. >> So, you're saying the devil made you do it? >> I'm saying I'm the devil. >> Westminster, Colorado, Thursday, June 14th, 2018. Just after 3:00 in the afternoon, Megan Bigalow was driving her three sons along Sheridan Boulevard on their way to the dentist. When an emergency vehicle came up behind them, she moved to change lanes and let it pass. The driver in that lane was Jeremy Webster, 23 years old, from Colorado Springs. According to Megan's later testimony, he screamed obscenities at her, then followed the family into the parking lot of their pediatric dentist. Moments later, he opened fire. 13-year-old Vaughn Bigalow Jr. was killed. Megan was shot. So was Vaughn's seven-year-old brother, Asa. A man waiting in his truck with his young daughter was wounded. Vaughn's middle brother ran for help. Webster drove away, but Megan had recorded his car, including the license plate, on her phone. Within hours, officer stopped his black Toyota Corolla on Interstate 25 near Castle Rock. That night, he asked to talk. At 8:53 p.m., he signed his advisement and sat down with the Westminster detective. Over the next 2 hours, he would describe the shooting as a dream, a movie, something he watched from outside his own body. The detectives wanted one thing. Why? >> Okay. All right. Well, it is uh 8:39, so we were only here just a couple of minutes. So, what I'm going to have a couple officers come back in here and they'll take you to another area. And it might be a little while before they transport you to the to the jail. So, you'll just have to be patient. Okay. Okay. All right. Water. Um, sorry. You asked me a question. What' you say? >> What am I under arrest for? >> You're under arrest. Arrest for murder. >> Murder. Yes. See. Okay, Jeremy. I uh it's 8:52. It's just a couple of minutes since you were in here. I just went back to the uh processing room where they uh photographed you. >> Uhhuh. >> And the officer that [clears throat] just brought you in told me that you told him that you wanted to say some things to me and you wanted to talk. Correct. >> That that guy just now. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> The officer in there that was uh going to take your picture. >> Yeah. >> Okay. And I approached you and I said, "Is this true? Do you want to talk to me?" And you said, "Yeah, I'd like to discuss this. I want to make a statement. >> Yeah, I at least want to I'll listen. I want to at least listen to what you have to say and maybe I'll say something. >> Okay. Well, that's fair. Do you remember the advisement form that I read to you here? >> I do. >> Okay. Do you want me to reread it to you? >> Uh >> or do you remember and understand what I read to you? He'll be more than happy to read it to you. If you want to read it, you can. >> Mhm. >> Okay. If you understand that and you're willing to make a statement with me, I need you to sign right there. Can would you please date that? You know what today's date is? No. >> It's the 14th of June. Okay. And uh I'll write the time on there. It's about 8:53 p.m. It's very important for me to hear what you have to say. I I know there's typically when I deal with people that come in here, there's two sides to every story. And um I don't know a whole lot about you. I'd like to learn a little bit about you. And what can you tell me about today? What do you want to tell me about today? >> I'm just really tired. >> Okay. Why you Why are you tired? >> Always tired. >> Why are you always tired? Here you go. How long have you been tired? >> Okay. When I uh was standing in here, you asked me what you're under arrest for, and I told you. Um, how did that make you feel? It just it just doesn't feel real. >> How does it feel? >> Bad dream. A dream. >> Feels feels like a dream. >> Like a really bad dream. >> So you do feel bad right now. >> That's true. Yeah. >> Okay. How Let me ask you this. How do you feel about what happened today? I'm just asking for your honest feeling. You said you had It's like you had a bad dream and you're feeling bad. >> I just don't know where to start to tell you the truth. Well, >> where why don't you tell me where you came from today? Or what what car are you driving today? >> Uh I was driving the car. They pulled me over, >> you know, and I I don't I wasn't there. So, what kind of car are you driving? >> A Corolla. >> Okay. What color? Black. >> Okay. Toyota Corolla Black. Is it a two or four door? >> Four. >> Okay. Uh, did you start feeling bad when you were in Westminster today? What uh I guess what purpose did you have coming to Westminster today? >> I was work I was working uh right now working for my cousin uh remodeling houses. >> Oh, where's that? >> All over Denver. How long you been working for your cousin? >> Couple months. >> What kind of remodeling do you do? >> Kitchens and uh basement uh whatever. >> Okay. Were you working with him today? >> I was working for him. I was alone. >> Okay. What time did you come to work this morning to work for you? I >> left Colorado Springs at like 7 in the morning. Let's try to get here at 8:30. >> Okay. Where is it that you're working, Jeremy, if you don't mind me asking? >> Uh, it's just like us my cousin's remodeling company. >> Okay. So, are you working on actual home right now? Yeah, multiple hours. >> Okay, so that was at 8:30. Now, when you drove down from Colorado Springs, were you alone or did you have a work buddy with you? >> Uh, from Colorado Springs, I drove up alone. >> Okay. Okay. So, how long did you work today? >> All day. Just a few hours. >> All day. >> Okay. >> 4:30. >> Okay. Okay. Well, why don't you tell me what happened when you were driving? I um before all this stuff happened, why don't you tell me >> when you're driving home before you got over there where all this stuff happened? I have some information that there might have been something that happened before all of this. Um maybe some kind of a traffic altercation or some person road raging you or something. Tell me about that. Oh no. >> Okay. In the in the you said it's almost like a bad dream. Tell me the parts of this that you do remember then. Tell me the stuff you do remember. >> Shouldn't have come to Denver today. >> Shouldn't have come to Denver today. Okay. Well, it's real important for me to hear your side, Jeremy. Okay. I truly believe that there's two sides to every story. >> Oh, >> do you know why this happened? >> No. >> So, do did did you just kind of snap? I >> have no idea what happened or what's happened now. I I have dreams like this all the time. I just started medicine last night to stop. >> What kind of medicine did you start last night? >> I don't know the name of it. You'll find them in mind for my surgery. >> Okay. So, what doctor prescribed medicine for you? >> For the last few few months now. >> The last two months. And what kind of dog? >> A few months since um March. since March. Okay. What kind of >> He's a psychiatrist. >> Okay. And he issued you a prescription. >> Okay. How often do you take his prescription? >> I just took the first one of that last night. A bunch of different ones, but >> Okay. [clears throat] What time last night? >> Uh, right before bed. >> What time did you go to bed? >> Then midnight. heard you. >> Well, let me tell you what my observations are, Jeremy, is when we do our job, we look into people's backgrounds, and you've never been in trouble with the police. You're working. That's why I ask you, is this something is there something that >> Anyone who knows me won't be surprised, I'm sure. So, anyone that knows you would be surprised that this happened? >> No, I don't think they would be. >> Why? Why do you say that? >> Like from before this and after this and during >> I just don't know where to start to give you the full picture. >> I understand that and I know there's probably a lot and I >> I just want to wake up. >> I Okay, I've got a lot of time to listen. I've been losing my mind for years. >> Okay. >> Slowly. >> So, tell me about that. What makes you s say that? >> I've just always been like just [ __ ] in the head. always been trying to get better, but just not too bad. I thought I was doing good. Thought I had it. Thought >> did that lady trigger something tonight? Is that what triggered this? >> I don't. >> Is it what she said to you or when she got out of her car or what? >> Doesn't matter what happened. >> Well, it matters to me. I I I want to help you. Tell me what she did. Tell me what she did. >> She didn't do anything anyone else. She didn't. >> So you >> I just you >> It was like I was watching from like third person. >> Okay. Tell me what you saw from third person when she pulled into that that parking lot and got out of the car. What did she say to you? Did she say something to you? >> Yeah, I'm sure. >> Okay. And [clears throat] she got out of her car and did she approach you or did she just stand by her car? What did she do after the interaction between you and her in the parking lot? Did she just walk away or did she raise her arm up and do something? >> I don't know what happened after she started walking away. We've We've kind of got everything pieced together. We We kind of already know what happened, Jeremy. We We want to know why. And that's why I'm asking you if >> a bird in the head >> cuz you're [ __ ] in the head. just know I've been see I was I was doing great. I was I didn't >> When did you start doing bad? You said you were doing great. Was there a point where you started feeling bad? >> No. Everything's been [ __ ] and I've just like a glimmer of hope. >> Okay. >> I don't I don't know. It was just there. >> Let me ask you this, Jeremy. Did you did you get the gun before you were kind of feeling bad or did you get it after you were feeling bad? >> I don't remember any the the details of that. >> So, do you just remember having the gun and you don't remember where you got it? I remember seeing from first person watching I'm about to get shot at people. Okay, go on. I don't know what happened. So you saw a gun shooting people >> and that's exactly what happens in my dreams every night and I can't >> when you saw this >> only as the situation progressed that I realized that it was real. >> When did you realize it was real? >> When the cops pulled me over on the road. I wasn't sure if I just imagined it or not. >> Okay. >> What did you think you imagined? Tell Tell me what you thought you imagined. >> The devil. Tell me what you remember seeing. I feel like you're seeing it right now. What are you seeing play out in your head? >> Tell us what happened. I just wanted to get through the [ __ ] work day and go home. >> What are you saying happened? Just explain it out loud. You're not a bad guy. You said you feel bad. >> So just even had it done. >> Yeah. What happened with the gun today? >> You guys know what happened. >> We have to hear from you. >> This happened. We just have to deal with it. Okay. We're here to listen to you. I know you're a good guy down deep. Doesn't matter anymore. It does stuff. It just happened so fast. What happened? We weren't there. So, I know you didn't want this happen, but it did. I didn't. So what happened? You clearly feel bad. So let's just deal with this now. >> Try. That's the best way to to deal with this is we just got to get all out in the open. Okay. You're not a bad guy. >> I know. Yeah. I know. But something just took over. I didn't have any idea what happened. >> Notice what Webster has put on the table before a single detail of the shooting. A new medication, a psychiatrist, years of losing his mind. And now a view of his own actions from the third person. The detective challenges none of it. He keeps the questions open, keeps telling Webster he isn't a bad guy and lets him talk. That patience is the strategy. Every claim Webster makes now becomes a fixed point that later answers can be measured against. God We know this lady came out of the car and said some things to you and you stayed in your car is what she told us. >> Who? >> The lady which lady >> that got out of the car. Is that Is that true? Did she get out of her car and you stayed in your car at first? >> I don't know. Well, all I can see What do you see? All I can see is people getting shot. I don't. >> How many people did you see getting shot? >> No. >> More than one. >> More than one. >> More than two. Again, it's it's really not a a big question for us as to what happened. It's very um important to us to hear hear from you. Okay. so much less to do with, you know, >> so much less to do >> so much less to do with that >> whatever it did it. >> Can I just ask you a couple questions? Maybe a yes or no. >> Yeah. >> What did you do with the gun? I didn't feel like I was doing anything. >> Well, I I guess I need to clarify. After you left, what did you do with the gun? >> Did you leave it in your car? >> I don't know. >> Did you put it someplace else? Part of our concern is if a lot of times people will panic and maybe get rid of a gun and we don't want a kid to get a hold of a gun and hurt themselves. And if that's the case, there's no law against throwing a gun out the window. If that happened, you need to tell us. Or if the gun is in the car, do you understand how we'd be concerned about kids getting hurt? I shouldn't have had a gun. And I should have already been in the [ __ ] room. Well, Jeremy, we see a lot of people that we wouldn't even give a chance to talk to. We see people that are so mean and angry and bad that we don't give an opportunity to talk to them. Okay? We don't see that with you. Just like Matt said, >> so tired of everything and happened so fast it didn't feel real. was there. I didn't wake up after and I'm still here. >> Okay. So, what happened? >> You know what happened? >> Why don't you tell us? >> Why didn't me tell you? >> I want to hear you say it. I just want to hear from you. I don't know exactly what happened. I wasn't there. >> I don't know exactly what happened to you, but I just know. >> What do you What do you What do you know? >> I can see you putting it in your head. Oh, it's just I don't know. But yesterday, I started taking a something to help me stop having violent surreal nightmares that make me not get any actual sleep. And then today, this happens and now it's a permanent version of that. This one dreams. I'm sorry. >> I'm sorry. Is this Does this match one of your dreams? every one of it's not. >> Tell me about your dream. >> I'm I'm always being pursued and [clears throat] and like shot at and this just varies. But they're always really violent. Usually heroically violent, huh? >> Tell me what what that means. >> Like saving people. >> Okay. How do you save them? by killing bad people. >> But they just marry night to night. >> Okay. Do all of them involve violence? >> Yeah. >> Do any of them involve firearms, guns? >> Yeah. >> All of them. Okay. I knew this would happen one day. And everyone in my life knows. And >> who in your life knows this? Just anyone and everyone who knows me knows that I struggle with this. And >> would your mom know it? >> Everybody knows. Anybody who's met me, it doesn't take long to figure it out. >> Yeah. >> Well, earlier you you said it was okay if I asked you a yes or no question, and you thought that'd be a good idea. So, you remember that question I asked you about her getting out of the car? >> Yeah. >> Did you agree with that? That she got out of the car first? I don't know. >> Okay. Would you agree that she said something to you and maybe flipped her arm up in the air and I don't know. Did she >> I'm sure she called me something at some point. >> Okay. >> I don't know. >> Okay. >> I How did that make you feel? >> I don't I just feel dumb. I don't feel like I'm here. Never. Well, can I ask you another yes or no question? >> You can ask whatever you want. >> Okay. Well, when you got out of your car, um, witnesses said you had the gun in your hand and then you walked towards her. Do you remember that? I I didn't feel anything. >> Okay. Well, you can not feel anything and still react. So, is it safe to say you were numb when this is happening? >> Probably a good word for it. >> Probably a good word for it. >> Okay. So, was it like shooting at something that maybe wasn't real? >> None of it's real. None of this is >> okay >> real. >> Well, when you were shooting at her, did it seem like it was not real? >> 100%. Right now, I just hope that I wake up at some point, but I don't think that's going to happen. I got tricked. Hey, let me ask you another yes or no question. When you drove away from there, were you alone? I was alone the whole day. >> Okay. And when you drove home tonight down whatever route you take when the police stopped you were Were you alone from all day long? You didn't have anybody in your car with you? >> That's right. >> So you're alone when this happened that we're we're trying to work out right now. Correct. >> Yes. >> Okay. So, you were driving the Toyota Camry when you pulled into that parking lot when the lady came out of the car and was talking with you. You said she might have said a bad word. It doesn't matter. No, it matters to me what you have to say. We know that there was some kind of a a thing that went on with her driving. >> Whatever it was, they should have just driven away. >> And that's probably a true statement. Sure. >> Just wasn't [ __ ] there. This happened >> when she was driving. Is that >> Said if I didn't have a gun, I'd be harmless. all the time. But you did have a gun today, right? >> Yeah. >> Okay. For sure. >> Sorry to interrupt you. >> No. What caliber is your gun? >> 9 mm. >> 9 mm. Okay. Do you know the brand of the gun? >> The Glock. >> Glock. Do you know the model? >> 19. >> Okay. Are you a Glock guy? Do you know a lot about Glocks? >> No, I don't know anything about. >> Okay. >> Guns. I'm just always afraid someone's out to [ __ ] get me. And Funny. >> Do you normally keep the gun in your car or do you keep it in your house? >> Uh oh. I take it with me on the in case anything happens. >> Do you do you have the uh I know I do this for my guns. I I have the original box for them. You know, when you buy them, I think the lock even has like a plast hard plastic box for it. Do you have the Do you have the plastic box for that that you keep it in? Okay. >> Got it. >> Did you buy it used? >> Used? Yeah. >> You bought it used? Okay. Do you remember who you bought it from? >> Somewhere from a pawn shop >> in in Colorado Springs. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, you bought it from a pawn shop in Colorado Springs. >> Okay. About a month ago. Oh god. Longer than that. >> I just didn't see it coming. Should have seen it coming. >> What didn't you see coming? >> Losing my presence in my own body. >> Okay. [clears throat] >> What would you like to tell those people who >> that you shot? Are they alive? >> Some of them are. >> This is your chance to say how you feel about something that happened. >> It's not justified. >> It's not justified. >> Oh, I can't justify anything. I I've lost my presence and I watched something terrible happen and I'm going to be held responsible. Do you think that this terrible thing that happened is do you know the difference between right and wrong sometimes? >> Do you give me an example of right and wrong or do you know the difference between >> what happened today was wrong. >> Okay, thank you. That's a very okay. Do you think it's something that is against the law or is that a stupid question? It's [ __ ] realizing time. >> After this was over and you left, how did you feel? >> I felt like like nothing. >> You felt nothing. Did you drive away at normal highway speeds or did something else happen? I >> think it was normal. Did you think that what you >> getting it together in my my head? >> Getting it together in your head. I'm >> trying to think of for a long time it's been like there's been this external force. >> Did you think when you left that the police would be looking for you? I don't know why. It's just pop cuz I I'm just clearly not. What did you feel when you left? What were you thinking? That that didn't happen. Okay. I wasn't sure. >> What finally made you decide that this was real? >> The cops pulled me over. I was like, "Yeah, that happened." >> So, when they pulled you over, what did you think? >> Well, they don't shoot me. >> Why would they shoot you? >> Pointing a bunch of guns at me. I don't know. I don't know, but I serve them felt like like they were they were hoping I'd make a move or something. >> You didn't take your gun out of the car when they stopped you, did you? >> No. I don't know where the gun went. >> Do you think it went somewhere? >> Is it in your car? because we would bet your car tell me if if you can what you remember when you saw the gun going off. What you saw? >> Nothing. I mean, >> you saw things, [clears throat] but I mean >> you said earlier that it was like you saw a gun like third person and you saw the gun shooting. >> Yeah. Like a like an aperture, whatever it's called, like when your arms literally disconnected from your body. It looked like and it just doesn't make any [ __ ] sense. Okay, I'm normally a reasonable guy. I don't. Tell me what you saw, Jeremy, when you said from third person you saw the gun shooting. Tell me what you remember. Why is that so important? >> Because it tells me that you want to be honest with me and tell me what I already know. >> And I I think you will. I think you're going to That's what I just I wasn't in any control. I showed so guilty and but I took so you weren't >> I never decided so you weren't in control. You felt like you were not in control. >> Okay. I wasn't in control. I was watching like it was a dream or a movie. Tell me what the movie showed in your mind. Tell me what you remember seeing as you were over there. It's really hard to say. >> Okay, let me ask you this. The guy in the truck in the parking lot. >> Remember a guy in the truck? >> He shot at a truck in the parking lot. Tell me about that. We talked to him and he said that he saw you shooting and he was in his truck and he said you guys made eye contact and he thought the reason you shot him is because he saw you and he backed his truck up and hit something. Remember that? >> Yeah, I remember a truck. >> Okay. Do you remember shooting at the truck and hitting it? >> Somebody said you shot a whole bunch of times at him. He said that. Was it because he saw you? Is that what the reason was? >> I don't think there was a reason. >> Okay. So, you just shot at him because he was there. >> Ridiculous. >> Well, that's a yes or no question, >> I guess. Yeah, I guess. >> Do you remember him in the truck? I remember seeing a truck. I remember a truck backing up, hitting something. What's the next thing you remember? >> Do you remember standing in that parking lot where that lady pulled into? I was there. Yeah, I remember standing there. You >> remember standing there? Do you remember walking towards her? But you you you remember after her you walked a certain distance away from your car and then you shot a couple of other people. You remember that? Tell me about that. Tell me what you remember about that. >> What? >> About after you shot her, you walked past her and you went to another spot out there and you shot a couple of other people. Tell me about what you remember. I don't remember. I was a lady. >> I just want to wake up. >> Sure. Do you remember her having uh some kids with her that came out of her car? >> Yeah, I remember them being kids. >> Okay. Do you remember when you walked by one of those kids that was laying on the ground? >> No. When when >> after you shot that lady, you walked past her and then you were still outside but closer to the building and there was one of those kids lying on the ground there and I've got a couple of people who were there that saw you and what you did. >> How do you guys do your [ __ ] job? >> What we want to do? How do you live with? >> We're trying to help. We Those of us that do this, we stay here because we want to help. And you can help us. I just want the truth. And I want you to tell me what you remember when you walked by that kid that was laying on the ground after you shot that lady. Is that a hard one to talk about? >> Yeah, I don't. >> That's fair. >> If I If I told you what was described to me as happening, would you answer yes or no? So you don't have to describe it. >> Why? >> I'd rather hear from you. Why? >> Or would [clears throat] you rather me tell you what the witnesses saw that happened? You can you can say whatever you want. >> Well, I'm going to tell you what people have told me. I'm not guessing. I'm telling you facts. But they said after you shot that lady, you walked around and there was a kid lying on the ground and you shot the kid while he was on the ground or shot at him. Tell me about that. >> I don't remember that. Do you want to know how many people that you shot? You told me it's more than one. >> If you had to make a guess or if you wanted to tell me, what number would you give me? Two more. Three more. Four. Yes. This is the contradiction at the center of the interview. Webster says he wasn't present, that he watched it like a movie. Yet, when the detective stops asking him to tell the story and starts asking for numbers, he lands on four. He knows some of the victims are alive. He remembers a truck backing into something. Yes or no questions built on witness accounts take the storytelling away, and what remains looks less like a missing memory and more like a selective one. >> And I guess you answered my question. You said you remembered seeing them get shot. Can I assume that means both? >> Yeah, one or two. >> Okay. Where were they? Were they all outside? >> No, it was all in that general area of the cars. >> If I showed you, may I show you a just a photograph of that area here and I'll explain that to you. This here is the business right here where you were. And from what witnesses said is you turned into this parking lot right here. Does that look familiar to you? >> Does that look like the parking lot that you pulled into? >> I'm sure there's only one parking lot, >> but does it look familiar to you? Was that where you were today? >> I'm sure wherever Yeah, I'm sure wherever it happened is where it happened. >> Okay. Well, this is where it happened right here. I know that for a fact. I wasn't down there myself, but this is printed for me because this is where it happened. And that witnesses said that you drove your car into this parking lot here. Purpose of this is I'd like to know where those where the lady was, where the guy in the truck was, and where the kids were. If if you want to take my pen and just put an X as you best recall where they were. I know where the truck was. >> Okay. You just write on there with like a kind of little rectangle or something. >> Truck bumped into that wall. >> Okay. Can you ride a make a triangle where or I mean I'm sorry rectangle for where the truck is? >> Okay, great. So, he bumped into that wall. >> Yeah. >> Now, is that after you fired shots at him? Um, I don't know the which order everything happened in. It's all very >> Okay. But you saw him back into there. Did you see anybody get out of that truck? >> No. >> Okay. Okay. Did you see anyone in that truck? >> I think there was a guy in it. >> A guy in the truck. Okay. Okay. Did you see anybody else? >> No. >> In the truck? Okay. All right. Before that happened, that's when those two kids were back here. Where? Let me back up a little bit. Where Where did you park your car when you pulled into there? And where was that lady's car? Show me that. Cuz I am told that she pulled in there first and then you parked behind her. Is that correct? >> Yeah, that's right. >> Okay. Can you draw using rectangles again where that might be as best you can recall? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> On my mind is going to get murdered. >> Say that again. >> I'm going to get murdered. >> It was like in the middle of the parking lot, I think. >> Okay. So, tell me about where those kids were, cuz you said you remembered a couple of kids. It was all in same area, I think. >> Same area. Was it all outside? >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, the truck, the lady in the car, and the two kids were all outside. >> Mhm. >> Did you ever go in that building? >> Did you ever notice anybody looking out of that building when this was going on? Okay. What question do you think is on our minds? The the one question that we would ask. >> I don't know. Why? That's that's the question we want to know. Okay. All right. >> Okay. This a yes or no question. When you pulled into that and followed that lady in there, were you angry at what had transpired between you and her? I don't know if that's the right word. >> Did it irritate you? I mean, it it did something for you to follow her in there. >> She didn't do anything. >> Why did you follow her in there? >> No, I mean, she did something, but like not >> What did she do? Cuz she told me that you guys had words and on the highway there was maybe some hand signals or gestures. She She said that she felt like she cut you off. Mhm. [clears throat] >> And she mentioned something about I used my turn signal when she was talking to you and she says, "Oh, just leave me alone. I've got kids or something." >> Tell me what you remember. >> I remember I remember she almost hit me >> where on the road. >> Okay. >> So, is that why you followed her there to talk to her? >> I don't know. >> So, she almost hit you on the road. What kind of car was she driving? >> Okay. >> You did something a lot of people do that as far as experiencing some sort of traffic altercation and then it has nothing to do with that. >> Well, what does it have to do with any on at any time? If Yeah. I drive so much. >> Mhm. >> Knowing what I just told you about four people, well, is there anything you'd like to say to those people? >> I don't think they give a [ __ ] what I have to say. >> I do. >> Agree. >> All right. [ __ ] me. >> No, we give a [ __ ] >> Okay. >> What would What do you think? >> I care about what you have to say. >> Why? >> I think it's a fair question. What would you like to say to those people? >> Wish uh didn't happen. It [ __ ] happened. >> Do you feel remorse? >> Yeah. I mean, I wish it didn't happen. >> Okay. And I know you told me you've only had that gun for two months. Is that correct? Couple of months. >> Couple. Yeah. I couldn't tell you the exact >> Okay. >> And I know this is something I've asked before, but it's very important that we have the gun. >> Do you not have it? >> I haven't looked in your car. If it's in if it's in your car, you just need to tell me because we're going to look into your car. I haven't done that yet. >> Yeah. I'll save you guys the hassle sorting through all the the [ __ ] in there. >> Okay. >> It's probably in the trunk. >> In the trunk. Okay. We're in the trunk. >> You know, my backpack. >> Okay. Thank you for that. >> What else would we find back there? >> That's it. >> Okay. aa books and tools and [ __ ] work. And then I thought um quitting drinking was going to solve my my mental problems, but uh the medicine I told >> So you said you got AA books. Are you in AA right now? >> Yeah, today's 4 months sober. >> Okay. So, have you been completely sober or have you cheated a little bit? >> No, I'm sober on alcohol. Um, weed a little bit here and there. Um, >> okay. >> But alcohol was going to kill me. >> So, sober on alcohol for 4 months >> or could have, you know. >> Sure. >> I was worried about the blackouts combined with the the realization or whatever the [ __ ] it's called. Okay. How long have you been drinking alcohol before you quit? >> Four years. >> How much did you drink? >> 100 something beers a week. >> 100 beers a week. >> Yeah, we >> Okay. What else did you drink? What other kind of alcohol? >> Whiskey. >> How much of that? >> Uh just here and there cuz things got real out of hand. One time I got uh I completely lost my mind and got into an altercation with the Colorado Springs Police Department and blocked up the walls of my apartment and probably should have probably should have been uh committed that that day like 3 4 years ago or I think there wasn't a bed available or something. >> Did you get arrested for something or did you go to like a detoxication center? >> Nothing. Nothing. Okay. misunderstanding. Just a huge drunken [ __ ] like crazy misunderstanding. >> And other than that medication that was just prescribed to you by your therapist? >> Four or something? Yeah. Bunch of them. >> Do you take four medications? Was that all that just recently prescribed to you? >> Yeah. >> Okay. And you don't remember any of those? >> Uh, I know. Yeah, I can I can I can try to >> Where are Where are all of those drugs? >> In my apartment. We'll find them. >> Where in your apartment? >> Uh on the like the coffee right on the coffee table. >> On the coffee table. Okay. Other than those four medications that are prescribed to you, are you have you been or are you taking any other medications? >> My only ones that are prescribed. >> Okay. Are you taking any illicit drugs like speed or heroin or pill type drugs? >> No. Weed was my thing and I was really against like alcohol and any hard drug. But um yeah, long story short, no. The alcohol is the hardest drug I got into. >> Okay. Would you is it safe to say that today when you got up this morning and until this whole thing happened, you hadn't had alcohol or you hadn't taken weed because you said you last had weed Tuesday. >> Mhm. >> Yeah, that's it would be correct. I was totally sober today. >> I really need to backtrack to what happened today and I I suspect that a lot of this is in your mind and it's hard for you to talk about. Is that kind of a fair statement? >> I just wish. Do you wish this all would go away? I >> just wish uh when I saw that there was an overturn tractor trailer on 25 today that I took it as a sign to take a day for myself that I didn't know I needed. I don't know. >> Did you set out to shoot people today? >> [ __ ] no. [ __ ] no. Absolutely not. Okay. just happens fast. And would you and I'm really just concerned for my own safety at this point cuz >> Tell me about that. I should have been committed before this and committed myself [clears throat] or been committed by any one of my family members who know that I'm [ __ ] in the head. um were not passed the background check because of the altercation with the Colorado Springs police and [ __ ] up autopilot dream under Can I ask you a yes or no question as I go back to what happened over here at this parking Yeah. Witnesses said that you shot the lady and then you walked past her and they heard some other shots. They didn't know who got shot, but then you walked by the kid that was laying on the ground and they said you fired one or two more shots at the kid on the ground. Did you know if that kid was already dead or did you why why did you shoot when he was on the ground? >> I really just don't recall. I don't think there was any reason behind anything or logic or justification or some switch just went off. I do anything. >> You do anything to take this back? >> Well, you're on the path to helping to some degree by talking about this. And anybody that I talk to, I always tell them getting the truth out is the best even in difficult situations. I'm only asking you for the truth. >> Yeah. Adam, I'll give you the truth cuz I'm exhausted of everything. I'm exhausted of Okay. You just ever do that? What happened? Well, the lady that talked to us about driving your car by you and talking about the traffic situation, she she described it as somewhat of an altercation between you and her. And you said she almost hit you. Is that >> she yelled something or another like, "Fuck you, [ __ ] Motherfuck." I don't know what she said. >> Okay. You said she said some bad words and those are bad words. >> Something or another. >> Those are bad words. told I probably told her to [ __ ] herself, you know, move on with the day. >> Is that when she got out of the car and was telling you that? >> I don't know. >> Okay. Is that what triggered this? Were you angry at that point? Were you upset? Were you >> It was >> Tell me how you felt. >> Didn't feel anything. I just felt not there. I mean, I guess >> you guess what? >> Anger. But blind. >> Okay, that's a logical answer that you felt anger after she said those words. >> Doesn't matter. >> Oh, >> it does matter >> cuz I'm trying to find out the why here. I want to know why. The why is a timeline of my of my life I think that led up to this day and [clears throat] I think it was something I was trying to avoid. Um like I didn't know this was going to happen but I knew something eventually could happen because of all these factors at play. But I've been trying to manage it myself and I'm not a [ __ ] expert. >> Have you ever uh pulled your gun out on someone in anger prior to this? >> So this is the first time. >> No. Can we talk about getting two uh food rounds? >> Yes, I'll be happy to do that for you. >> Okay. My my question is after you why did you shoot the others after you shot her? She was the one that angered you and was calling you dirty names. >> There's no reason for any. >> Tell me what what the reason was though. There had to be no reason. >> I I don't believe there was a reason. >> Was it because >> it just happened? >> Okay. Was it because the kids were with her and you were so angry and you wanted to punish her? >> [ __ ] no. Why do I care about any of this? >> The real problem is now the real me's back and I'm just like, "What the fuck?" >> So, you feel like the real you is here right now. You're you feel like you're in control. >> Yeah. But now I'm It's [ __ ] Like my personality stands from the best to the worst of humanity and I was trying to get it all under control and then I didn't see any of this coming. It's almost like predetermined or something. I had no [ __ ] control over myself and you know it just seems predetermined like in some [ __ ] up way. That's what I was trying to explain why some external force has been guiding me towards this like not like it just [ __ ] happened like that. >> Okay. You now since you're more at probably a more relaxed feeling, you said it's more of the real you right now. Do you now? Do you now >> remember the four people? >> There was the lady and her kids in the truck, right? >> Yeah. Car. Yes. Yeah. I'm sorry. Lady and the kids and then the truck. Yes. >> See, I do remember that. >> Okay. Tell me what you do remember now that you're It's yourself right now. Still, how many of them are okay? Three or okay? What's your goal here? >> For you to tell me what I already know. That's my goal. For For what purpose? To show me that you're honest. You want to help and so there are no unanswered questions when I leave. >> I just want for that not to happen ever again. >> Okay. Right. I would agree with that. >> So you remember the lady and the two kids and the guy in the truck. If you had to tell me in a real quick story about what happened, A B C D at four people, tell me that right now and and I won't go there anymore. That's all I'm asking you. ABCD. >> Well, I get to eat. >> Oh, I don't know if I have appetite. >> Okay, I'll I'll get you a sandwich or a slice of pizza or something. Okay, tell me just ABCD and I I won't address that anymore. You pull into the parking lot. She gets out. She says it's nasty words. Called you an effing [ __ ] sucker. Tell me what happened. I just know I shot the lady, the kids. The truck. That's what I saw happen. I didn't feel present, but I know that it was me. Okay. So, you shot the lady. You shot the kids. You said kids plural. So, two kids, correct? >> Yeah, two kids, I think. >> Okay. And then the truck. You described the truck very well to me. When you shot it in, you described the lady. Tell me about the kids. A, B, C, D. Just tell me the kids, where they were, and how you shot them. That's all I want to know. >> It was just in Just tell me as you're walking how this thing happened. That's just why what was the question? Sorry. From the beginning, you you you know ABC D. We got four people. Just tell me when you shot the lady, tell me where you walked and how you shot the first kid, how you shot the second kid, and then um you said the truck was last. Just tell me how that happened. I was just wondering what happens next. >> I'll I'll tell you. Let's get through with that. I'll go get you a sandwich and then I'm going to tell you what's going to happen. Okay? That's all I want you to do is just answer them. Just walk me through it. You said it's now it's yourself. You're grounded. >> I'm sorry. >> Okay. You're sorry. Okay. Okay. So, you the lady's out of the car. She's yelling at you. Tell [clears throat] me where you walk and what you do again. Oh, I I'm I'm just uh would it be easier if you wrote it wrote it down? >> I just It's like generic like >> That's okay. I'll take I'll take it however you give it to me. If it's generic, that's fine. Just just tell me and we won't revisit that. Go ahead and tell me. Um some notes. There's a lady and um kid meet next to her I think. And then uh the uh on the sidewalk I think. Okay. No. >> So, there's a lady and the kid. The kids next door. They're on the sidewalk. What next? >> Well, that that's it. >> I want to know what order you shot them. >> Oh, I don't know. >> You shot the lady. >> The lady for for sure. >> Okay. How many shots did you fire at her? >> I don't know. I don't know. >> She fired one. >> Maybe a couple. I don't know. >> Okay. And when you shot her, what what did you see her do? >> Uh fell to the ground. >> Okay. What did she say? >> Nothing. >> Okay. And then what did you do when she fell to the ground? >> Uh I don't know what I'm doing right now. Dig in my own grave. But >> I already know what happened. Jeremy, >> I know. >> What do you mean digging your own grave? What does What does that mean? >> I'm going to get put to death or stabbed to death or cops will kill me and they'll fake my suicide. >> So, she falls to the ground. What do you do? Witnesses tell me you keep walking. >> Walking where? in the parking lot towards her after you shot her. And you said the kid was beside her. Is he the first one you shot? >> First person or the first kid? >> The first kid? >> Yeah, I think so. >> Okay. How many times did you shoot him? I >> think um I think one. >> Okay. And what did he do? >> The ground. >> Okay. And then what did you do? Is he the one that you shot on the ground again? >> I don't I really It's really really like >> really blurry. >> Okay. Well, tell me what you remember. You shot him. He went to the ground. What did you do then? Cuz witnesses said you walked from there. >> It was all right. It was all within such a short area. I wouldn't call it walking. It was all >> Okay. >> All around that. Just right near >> her car in front of it. my car. >> Okay. >> You're there. >> So, you didn't walk very far? >> So, no, I was just still there. >> Okay. So, after you shot the first kid, what did you do? >> What did you see? You obviously saw the other kid. What was he doing? >> I don't know. Maybe standing there. I >> Okay. Do you remember how many times you shot him? >> Oh, >> once. Probably once, maybe twice. >> Maybe twice. And what did he do when you shot him? >> That was the problem. >> Okay. And what did you do? >> After that, >> some witnesses that were there said that you shot one of these kids while they were lying on the ground. And I'm asking you if you remember which was it the first one you shot on the ground or the second one you shot on the ground? >> I don't know. >> I really don't know. >> Okay. From there, tell me about the truck thing. Are you walking back to your car at that point when you see the truck, the guy in the truck? >> Yeah, that had to be on the way out. >> Okay. Tell me what you what you saw and felt when you saw him in the truck when he's looking at you. >> Didn't really make an eye contact. >> Okay. Cuz he said he told us that he was looking at you when he was in the truck. >> He's probably He's probably right. He was more >> Okay. >> more aware of the situation than me. >> Okay. And how many times did you shoot at the truck? A handful. >> Handful. >> Few. No. >> Six. >> Five. Six times. >> Few. Yeah. >> Okay. And that's consistent with what witnesses said. They said you shot fired quite a few rounds at the truck. >> Where where were did you keep that gun when when you pulled it out? Where was it? >> Glove compartment. I think >> glove compartment. >> And why do you keep it there? Okay. Um, guess a couple of unlikely scenarios that really scare me getting robbed or someone trying to kill you or >> Okay. I shouldn't have been u. >> So, for self-defense, >> you keep that? >> Yeah. 100%. Yeah. >> Okay. So, you understand the self-defense laws in Colorado? Do you know anything about what a law means in regards to self-defense in Colorado? Um, so I'm I'm not an expert. >> Okay. Tell me what you know or what you believe. >> Well, there's uh there's Make My Day, right? that's in your own home. >> Correct. >> Can defend against an intruder. >> Um, you know, Colorado, you can keep it um loaded in your car. It's a hand. Okay. So what under the make my day law that you're referring to give me a scenario when you feel you would be justified to use that weapon. >> Well I don't in the house is the most obvious one. >> Okay. in public, you know, someone's trying to rob you and if they have a gun, I'm not sure actually because that's much more. >> So, if someone's trying to rob you or someone has a gun, let's say they're pointing a gun at you, would you be justified in using that? >> I'm not sure. Okay. >> I think so. >> Okay. I think that's that makes sense. So, would it be true that in order to defend yourself with that weapon, someone has to be hurting you, attacking you with another weapon, something like that, in order for you to defend yourself in your home, like you said, to make my day. >> I'm not claiming that I was defending myself. >> Okay. What are you claiming? >> Nothing. I mean, lost my mind. lost my [ __ ] mind. >> So, do you think >> in an instant, in just a [ __ ] instant and if the gun wasn't there, I would have been good to go, you know, just find a way to deal, you know, cool down. But, uh, there was just some sort of lack of any thinking, like any proper like thinking about if this happens or this is going to happen, you know, and so don't do this. Um, so in retrospect, now that you're grounded and we're seeing the real you, was this something that was wrong? I mean, could you use the make my day law to defend what you did? [ __ ] Definitely not. >> Is there anything that these people did that would make you use deadly force against them? >> No. The problem is it's just me. I'm the I'm the problem. >> That's what I've been saying from the beginning here. >> Knowing that this happened now for sure. >> Why walk a murder suspect through Colorado's self-defense law? Because the legal questions are already taking shape. Webster rejects self-defense outright. He has told the detective he kept the gun in his glove compartment, that he was completely sober, and that what happened today was wrong. In Colorado, an insanity defense turns on whether a person was incapable of telling right from wrong at the time of the act. Every one of these answers would later be measured against that standard. >> Yeah. Okay. I'm mostly um mostly just thinking about what I should have done. >> Tell me about that. >> Well, first off, I shouldn't have came to Westminster today. >> Okay. >> Maybe I should have quit this job a while ago cuz it's been stressing me out. >> What else should you not have done? Um, hit me up. I don't know. >> So, when you said you're going to go there for the last time, what did you think was going to happen? >> What is the They're going to get me. >> What were they going to get you for? For what? >> For from that. >> Okay. For shooting those people. >> Yeah. >> So, you knew >> it didn't feel real, but it gradually, >> you know. >> So, you knew the police were going to catch up to you and you knew that you would be held accountable for shooting those people. Is that a fair assessment? >> Of course. Of course. Um, >> so you knew what you did was against the law at that point. >> Do you >> afterwards? >> Yes. I Yeah. >> How soon afterwards did you feel that? >> I was back at work cuz the whole time I was I just started questioning whether I had just imagined it, you know. Um, but on my way home I saw the helicop helicopter and it was uh I just knew it was about holding me. >> What' you do when you saw the helicopter? >> Just driving. See if I can get on to see my cat before I have to before you have to what? Whatever comes next. Can you find any of this? I uh Well, Jeremy, I've got a uh detective that wants to come in and show you something. Um and he wants to talk to you a little bit. He's been working with me on this. Okay. His name is Mike Lynch and he'll be in here in just a minute. >> Sure. No worries. >> And uh feel free to eat there. I And if you need more water, I'll get you another bottle of water. Okay. >> Yes, please. He'll be coming in here in just a second. Mike Lynch. >> Hey, Jeremy. >> Hi. So Jeremy, I actually been watching the whole interview. So I've kind of watched you through this whole thing. I know what's been going on. So you don't have to repeat a lot of stuff. Okay. I'm not going to ask you to repeat anything. Few things I want to ask you about though. You're having a little bit of a difficult time trying to express your feelings about why you wanted to shoot these people, >> right? I didn't feel um I just feel like the feelings aren't relevant. Something just took over and I and it was like tunnel vision or watch watching a movie or a dream. All my decision making stopped. But you made some conscious decisions about what you did this afternoon. How so? >> You followed a lady in a vehicle into a parking lot. You got out of your vehicle. You approached her with a handgun and you shot her. That's a conscious decision, isn't it? >> I would never make that decision. >> We did. >> It happened. >> Yes, it did. >> I didn't make the decision. What do you mean? Explain that to me. What do you mean you didn't make a decision? >> I don't feel like anything's >> Isn't the truth of the matter that you got so pissed off at her for the traffic thing? >> [ __ ] no. >> Well, that's what made you mad. >> Oh, it wasn't. That happened 50 times a day. >> Well, it did enough that you followed her. She cut in front of you in the traffic construction down there. You got pissed off at her. I mean, you already admitted in the interview earlier that you might have said something like, "Fuck you." So, you got pissed off at her for cutting you off, right? Is that what prompted this whole thing? Fact, this isn't the first time you've had a traffic altercation when you've gotten out and yell, is it? >> Sorry. >> This isn't the first time that you've had a traffic disagreement altercation with somebody where you've gotten out and and yelled at somebody. What do you mean? >> Has it happened before where you got >> No, that's absolutely the This whatever happened today is the first time that I've ever had a um like anything significant. >> Okay. >> But but it's kind of a pattern in your life, isn't it, that you get pissed off in traffic, people cut you off, people piss you off, you get mad at them. I >> think that's probably true for anybody, right? >> No, I don't think it is. I think there's a lot of people that drive with a mellow attitude knowing that traffic is going to be traffic and you just sit back and let it happen. But that's not your attitude, is it? Depends on the day. I That's the attitude you described is the attitude I try to keep. That's what I've been working towards. >> So, do you want me to believe that you're insane? >> I don't care what you believe cuz I don't like you. >> Okay. But I'm just trying to trying to draw this thing out a little bit. So, we'll try to figure out what happened today. >> What I want is truth and justice. So, all of the information will come forward. >> You want truth and justice for who? >> For them, but also for me, which is [ __ ] [ __ ] I just wish I locked myself up or didn't buy a gun. Supposed to be the only two things I could. >> So, are you telling me that there were no voices in your head telling you to go kill somebody today? >> That's a very ridiculous way of putting it. Voices in the head. Well, maybe in your situation, I've had lots of people tell me they have voices in their head. Some people tell me they have voice in talking about guilty. Did that happen to you? Do you have voices in your head? I can't tell whether my voice or these other layers of thinking are I don't know. This is kind of the type of thing I should be talking to my doctor about and uh should have talked to my doctor about. I understand your perspective. I know what you're trying to do. >> Well, I'm trying to figure out if you're sane or not. >> I don't know where the um the line is of insanity. >> Okay. Does having knowing the distance between right and wrong have anything to do with that? >> Yeah, it does. I just didn't feel like I was there. >> But you still say you're knowing the difference between right and wrong. >> Right now, yeah. First, I didn't know anything. I didn't know where I was, who I was, what's going on, why this lady said this. >> And you weren't under the influence of any intoxicating beverages or liquor or drugs or anything else? >> No, I've been sober for a few months now. >> No. So, you were just so enthralled with your anger over the traffic thing. I mean, that's what it looks like to me. >> Me, too. [clears throat] That was part of it. But >> I mean, you made some for somebody to be insane, okay, you made some really conscious decisions about things beforehand and then afterwards. That leads me to believe that that um you actually knew exactly what you were doing today. I definitely didn't cuz I wouldn't [ __ ] do it. No way. >> Period. I wouldn't. >> You say I wouldn't do it. Well, who did it then? >> The [ __ ] devil. >> So, you're saying the devil made you do it? >> I'm saying I'm the devil. Just because you did such a heinous act? >> No, I've been the devil since I was born. >> What? Is that the way your parents treated you? >> No, it's just all been revealed to me through [ __ ] little clues. Like um random lyrics and numbers and come on. In reality, you know that you're not the devil. >> No, I literally think that I'm the Antichrist. >> The Antichrist isn't the devil. >> Whatever. I'm all of them. >> But yet, >> the devil won today and I lost. And the devil lives inside of me. And now, you know, I'm trying to fight it. >> Your mom did say one one thing that was fairly interesting. >> What? >> She said that you really have an anger issue. >> What? >> An anger issue. >> I've worked with anger problems. >> So, she's right about that. >> Yeah. I get angry >> sometimes. So angry to the point of losing control. >> It's not always anger that does that. >> But sometimes it is. >> Any external stimuli that's overwhelming. [clears throat] >> So you tell me, do you think you're insane? >> I do. I believe I'm [ __ ] in the head. I believe that I should have been locked up in a bin. >> Well, why would they have locked you up? What would you have done to make them lock you up? I'm not that sure that that's all that much insane. Okay. A lot of just don't want to take the pain anymore. >> I can't differentiate real from not real. >> Do you know the difference between right and wrong? >> It's ambiguous like But I feel what happened today was obviously wrong. But in general, that's a tough question. Right or wrong? Because right, wrong, there's period. Today was pure equal. >> Today was pure. >> Jeremy Webster was charged with firstdegree murder, attempted murder, and assault. He pleaded not guilty by reason of insanity, pointing to a diagnosis of bipolar disorder. His first trial in July 2021 ended in a mistrial when a prosecution witness suffered a medical emergency. The retrial began in April 2023. The jury heard the claims you just heard, the dream, the movie, the loss of control, and they heard his answers about the gun, his sobriety, and right and wrong. On Wednesday, April 26th, 2023, after deliberating for less than 3 hours, the jury rejected the insanity defense and found Jeremy Webster guilty on all 12 counts, including first-degree murder. The same day, Judge Priscilla Lo imposed the maximum sentence on every count, life in prison without the possibility of parole, plus 48 years on each of six more counts, to run consecutively. On May 21st, 2026, the Colorado Court of Appeals affirmed the judgment. Von Scott Bigalow Jr. was 13 years old. His family called him Bubba. He skied, rode his bike, played music, and was happiest in the water. Water polo with the Rocky Mountain Neptunes was his specialty. In his memory, his parents founded Big Waves to grow the sport he loved and to promote gun safety. Megan Asa and the other Wounded Witness survived. Vaughn should still be here. If this breakdown helped you see what was really happening in that room, subscribe to Stay Alert Interrogation for more carefully examined police interviews.