I said, "This is my last opportunity before we go home." >> Okay. >> If she had been gone, I would feel good. So, I picked her up and I threw her. >> On the evening of Monday, November 29th, 2010, a family sat down to dinner in the food court at Tysons Corner Center in Fairfax County, Virginia, the largest shopping mall in the state. The youngest of them was 2-year-old Angeline Agdock. That night, she rode a small train through the mall and played at a set of doors that slid open on their own. When dinner ended, the family walked toward the parking garage. Angeline's grandmother, 50-year-old Carmela Dela Rosa, urged the others to go ahead and stayed at the back. On a sixth-level walkway between the mall and the garage, she lifted Angeline and dropped her over the railing, a fall of more than 40 ft. Angeline was taken to hospital in critical condition. Within hours, her grandmother was sitting in a Fairfax County police interview room, handcuffed to the wall. She would not deny what she had done. What detectives needed to establish was harder. Did she intend it? And did she know it was wrong? This is the interrogation of Carmela Dela Rosa. >> My first name is Steve. I I don't know I don't I don't know your first name. Cast I'm known by Cast a lot. We always call each other by their first names. So, I'm on our last name, so um Carmela, we want to ask you some questions about tonight. I don't want you to answer anything right now, okay? I want you to listen to me first. I'm going to read your your rights to you and so you know what's going on. Obviously, you've been handcuffed to the wall. You're not free to go. I'm not sure what's going to happen at the end of the night, but I know you're not free to go right now. So, I'm sure you've seen enough TV to know when you're not free to go and the police restrict your movement, you have certain rights. I'm going to read those rights to you. Okay? Do you understand that? >> Yes. >> I'm going to ask you some questions but prior to that, not related about what happened, just like your name, date of birth, things like that. Okay? Now, I have your I have your name as Carmela C. Dela Rosa. >> Yes. >> Is that correct? >> Dela Rosa is two words. >> Correct. >> Small D and big R. >> Okay. And your birthday 11/1/60? >> Yes. >> Okay. The last time that you had a job, where did you work? >> I was uh That's one. Mhm. I don't know which one I I quit. I quit um The last one? I think it's the Disney Store. >> Okay. At Tysons? >> Yeah. I said the [snorts] last one. I'm not sure between that or the >> Okay. And um is English your first language? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> But I was born in the Philippines, so I know Tagalog. >> Okay. But you speak you you feel comfortable speaking in English? Okay. So, do you consider English your primary language? >> Sure. >> Okay. >> [snorts] >> How far have you gone in school? >> Second year college. >> Where did you go? >> I went to the Philippines, pre-dental, and I also went to Strayer University in Washington, D.C. Data processing. >> Mhm. And when did you leave Strayer? What what year were you there? >> 80 I came in '79 1980 and 1981. I was there. >> Okay. Are you on [snorts] any kind of medications right now? >> Uh >> Do you take medications? >> Yeah, but I haven't been taking it. >> Okay. So, in the last 24 hours, have you had any medication? >> No. >> Okay. How How long have you been married? >> Last October 27th was 29 years. >> And how's that been going? A good 29 years or >> He's very good. He's very patient. >> Uh-huh. What does he need to be patient with? Just normal day-to-day things or is there other issues? >> With me. >> Okay. Why does he need to be patient with you? >> Cuz I [snorts] tend to be impatient. >> With just daily life or >> Like finances and you know, if things are disorganized. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. >> Based on your your lack of patience, does that cause friction with him? >> In a way, yes. >> Okay. We were talking to him earlier and he said that you guys had planned a trip to go to Ocean City and you decided not to go. >> Yeah, it's like a >> Why Why did you decide that? >> It's like I couldn't get out of the house. >> How come? >> I don't know. I just I just couldn't. >> Mhm. While he was gone, when did he leave? >> He left They left uh >> [snorts] >> Wednesday. Wednesday, like around 4:00. >> Okay. >> He came back today. >> Okay. So, from Wednesday till today, did you ever leave the house? >> No. I just stayed home. >> How come? >> I I couldn't leave the house. >> But in in your in your mind, in your opinion, what was keeping you from leaving the house? >> I I don't know. I just couldn't get out. >> Mhm. Was it the weather? Was it your situation at home? Were you having a lot of fun at home and you didn't want to leave or >> I don't know what to say. I just >> Okay. Has that happened to you before where you couldn't leave the house? >> before >> And in your 29 years of marriage, has that ever happened before where you couldn't leave the house? >> This is different. >> Okay. What's different about it now? >> before I really could leave the house except this time. >> Mhm. >> Or before like when I get depressed, I stay home. And I don't want to go out. >> So is that kind of like a defense mechanism for you when you're depressed, you want to stay home? And it's easier to deal with your depression at home? >> Yes, by myself. >> Okay. You kind of shut everybody else out? >> Yeah, I don't talk to nobody. >> You mentioned earlier when we were talking going over your rights form that you suffer from depression. How long have you suffered from depression? >> It started in 2000 when my father died. Uh we were back home and he was just supposed to go to the hospital for a checkup. And he never came out after 7 days. It's like there was no closure. >> Mhm. >> And I'm papa's girl. >> [snorts] >> Are you the oldest daughter? >> I'm the youngest. >> You're the baby? >> There's six of us. I have a sister. >> Okay. >> The second one and four boys. >> All right. >> [clears throat] >> And I I assume he he never came back home out of the hospital? >> Yeah, we buried him. >> Okay. >> And then it happened in the Philippines and uh We went home all of us in 1998. And we spent Christmas together. I guess there's a reason why we went home. And then you know, my family had to come back, so I stayed home. And then, when I went back to work, I was like like coping with things, you know, like everything's normal, but after work, I'm like crying. And then it started like I quit my job. >> And how many years ago was this? >> 2000. >> Okay. [clears throat] >> I quit my job and I started to cry and I slept a lot. I slept like 18 hours in one day. >> Oh, wow. >> All I all I know to do is to take my kids to school and pick them up. >> Okay. >> And then after that, I stayed in my room. >> How old were your kids then? >> They're 24. They're They're 18 and 22 now, minus 10 years. So, how old are they? 18 minus 22. 12 and 8. >> Okay. You have a boy and a girl? >> Girl and a boy. >> Okay. How old are I mean, what are their names? >> Uh Kathleen, my daughter, and David, my son. >> Okay. And do either one of them live with you now? >> My daughter is married and my son lives with us. >> Okay. How long has your daughter been married? >> June 20 Well, June 9th, 2008. >> Does she They have any children? >> Yeah. The one that I did what I did. >> What's her What's the baby's name? >> Angeline. >> Angeline? >> A n g e l y n. >> Oh, so Angel and then >> Angeline, [clears throat] one word. >> Angeline, okay. And how old is she? >> Two and a half. >> All right. And when you said you did what you did, what do you mean? I haven't been I haven't been up to Tyson, so I I'm only hearing rumors. I don't know actually what happened. >> I just lost it. >> And and I I I said I apologize for getting personal with you. But I've heard my wife say the same thing, I've just lost it. I I'm not sure what that means. What does that mean to you? When you say I just lost it, are you justifying what you did by saying I just lost it? Is that what you mean? >> What does that mean? Justify. >> You're trying to give a reason for what you did to the baby. So, are you saying I just lost it meaning what did you lose? Did you lose your purse? >> I lost my mind. >> You lost your mind, okay. And when you say you lost your mind, what do you mean by that? >> I did that terrible thing. >> Okay. What did you do that was terrible? >> I dropped the baby. >> You dropped the baby? You dropped the baby or you threw the baby? >> I threw the baby. >> You threw the baby. All right. And why would you do that you think? I know it's hard to talk about it, but it's important in order us to get the help that you need if you do need help and to give I'm sure your your daughter is going to have a lot of questions. So, it's important for us to give her answers. Just like you wanted closure in your dad's death if something should happen to your granddaughter your your daughter is going to want some closure and some answers. >> Well, today we were at the food court and um I'm supposed to go into my country last week cuz my brother died. And everything was arranged, but then there's that thing again like I couldn't leave. >> Mhm. >> My husband had the ticket and everything. But like, you know, I feel like I need to go home, but I want to be with my family. >> Your family here? >> Yes. >> Okay. But you also felt like you needed to go and be with your extended family with your with your brother dying? >> With my Yeah, with my sister went home from the World Bank. My brother from Germany went home. And then I feel like if I go home, like my my my family, maybe they won't want me to come back anymore. >> Right. >> So, I decided that morning I'm supposed to go to the airport, like I I couldn't get out of the house again. >> Right. >> So, I didn't move. >> So, what what happened in the food court tonight that made you lose your mind? >> It's like everybody was like having They're like, you know, my husband, my son, my daughter, they're like They have their own thing. Like I'm not included. >> Right. So, were you mad about that? >> No way. >> Okay. >> I'm not included. >> Right. So, you weren't included in the conversations or you weren't included >> Like they have their secret whatever. The way they look at each other. >> Right. >> And then um my husband said, cuz I couldn't eat anymore, he said, um you cannot force somebody to do some something they don't want to do. Like it triggered something on me. I don't know what. >> Right. >> And then um My son, we we went downstairs to get some ice cream, my daughter and my son was like Like he said I was messing with him. I was I was just talking to him about you know, things I wanted they just came back. >> When he when he said that you were messing with him, what did you take that to mean? >> Cuz I took the camera out. I was joking to take his picture. >> Mhm. >> But I was really going to take a picture of my my son and my husband and my daughter coming back. >> Right. >> And he was like like he went like this to me. He was like so mad. So it was like I blew I blew it again. I blew it with my son. Blew it with my husband. And then when we got to the elevator, my daughter called her husband, James. I never liked James. >> And you never liked your your grand daughter's husband, I mean father? >> Yes. >> How come? >> Cuz it was the first boyfriend. And I felt like my daughter didn't have a chance to explore not really sleep with other men, but for other people. >> Right, explore life. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> And then she got pregnant second year in college. Third year in college. You know. Things would have been better if you know, if you're going to do it protect yourself, not have a baby and then >> Right. >> And then baby came. And we got them married. My sister took me home to my country cuz I was having depression again. It's like What are you >> Because your daughter got pregnant? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> I felt like where did I go wrong? >> Mhm. >> I stayed home in 2000 and I took care of the kids. You know, like take them to school, pick them up, take care of the house. My house was immaculate [clears throat] back then. But not now. It's a mess. >> Right. >> That's the way I think. >> Sure. Is it Is it a daily battle for you in the way you think? >> Yes. >> Notice how her account has moved. It began as I just lost it. Then I dropped the baby. Only when the detective pressed did it become I threw the baby. And now he's found something older than tonight. Resentment toward her son-in-law James going back to her daughter's pregnancy. Losing it describes a single moment. What she is describing now has a history. >> What's a good day for you? >> Well, a good day was when everything was fine, you know, like we all the all the debts were paid. You know, I had a job back then. That's a good day. I'm really messed up on our finances. We have a lot of debt and it's because of my poor way of paying bills. >> Mhm. Are you late You pay bills late a lot? >> Uh this year was the worst, yes. >> Are Do you have like debt collectors calling your house or is it that bad? >> We had a debt consolidation done. But um what's happening is what's happening is um I OD'd in August cuz I've been looking for a job. Apply online. Position filled. I went to job fairs. You know, like there's a lot of competition. >> Sure. And when you said you OD'd, you mean you you tried to OD? >> I did OD. >> Okay. Well, you were still here with us, so >> They cleaned me up. >> They cleaned you up? Okay. >> In August in Fairfax. >> Now, what made you want to OD over this? >> Because I was looking for a job. I couldn't find a job. >> And then so how did that make you feel? Not finding a job. >> It was hard cuz I needed to make money. [snorts] Cuz we are just in debt. >> Right. Well, on those on those nights in August and September and and now this Now going back to BJ's, there was something you were upset about. What were you upset about tonight? >> I guess about like my family is you know, I've lost them with what I've done. >> Mhm. >> And they have their own thing. >> When your daughter called James you were talking about when you're getting on the elevators. When your daughter called James and you said you don't and you told us you don't like James. What did that make you think at that time? When she called him. >> I felt like, you know, she's with me and it's like even even if she's with us James is always like in the picture. You know, just just be with us. >> And you're talking about your daughter. >> Yeah. >> Are you jealous of her and James relationship? >> Honestly? >> Mhm. >> Yes. >> Well, and what what aspect of the relationship are you jealous of? >> Like he took her from me too early. >> At a young age? >> And he didn't give her a chance to >> Mhm. >> explore. >> Right. So, when you get off the elevator, and you guys are walking through the food court, what made you decide to do what you did? I mean, are you walking and getting angrier because of the conversation with James? >> Yes. >> Okay. So, what are Tell me what you're thinking if you can remember. >> I just saw James throw her. >> Through who? >> Through the baby. >> What do you mean you saw James throw her? You're thinking in your mind that James threw her? >> That that No, not James threw her. That you know, James is connected to this person. >> To the baby? >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, when you're looking at your granddaughter, you're you're thinking about James. Based on that phone call. >> Yes. >> Okay. What are you thinking about James? >> Like, I'm with my family. Why are you here? >> Right. So, what did you do? Cuz my understanding is as you're walking out, the baby's walking. Your granddaughter is walking out with you? >> Yeah. >> Okay. When did you When did you decide to pick her up? >> Because it's the walkway to go to to the parking. >> Right, the garage. >> Yeah, I picked her up and >> Okay. Now, when you picked her up, what are you thinking? >> I thought about James. >> Right. >> And then I threw her. >> Okay. So, when you picked her up, were you picking up picking her up to hold her, or were you planning on doing something else? >> I did what I did. >> Right. But what I'm trying to get at when you when your granddaughter is walking and you've been down and you pick her up at that moment you know what you're going to do. Are you Are you going to go ahead and when you get closer to the rail you're going to throw her over? >> Was I conscious that I was going to do that? >> Yeah. >> Yes. >> Okay. And what was the reason for doing that? >> Because I thought about James. >> Okay. Because you're mad at James. You're mad at the relationship that James has with your daughter and he took her from you at a young age. >> Yes. >> He got her pregnant before they got married? >> Yes. >> Okay. Does that upset you? >> Oh, yes. >> Was that a a big problem with you and your daughter that she got pregnant early? >> Big problem with us. Big problem with you and me. >> Mhm. Did you think that she was raised better than that? Like you get she had better standards, higher morals than that. >> Mhm. >> So I I Carmela, I guess what my what I don't understand is why tonight. Your daughter was pregnant 2 years ago. There's been ample opportunity to hurt someone before this. Why tonight? >> I don't know. Maybe because I haven't taken my medicine for a while. >> Right. But in talking to you I will I will agree with you 100%. It's not a normal thing to throw a child off of a high railing and and throw her to hurt her. But it sounds to me like you're thinking pretty clearly. You're upset because James called and has ruined your family time. >> Mhm. >> He he's pissed you off. >> Yes. >> So you're getting back at him by hurting his daughter. Is that is that a fair assessment or am I thinking of it wrong? >> No, that's right. >> Let me ask you about you said you were upset with James and you were seeing James through the baby. What's the baby's name? >> Angeline. >> Angeline? Were you mad at Angeline as well? >> In a way, yes, because everybody loves her. My husband feel like she loves her more than me. >> Mhm. >> David my daughter is like there's no more love for me. >> Right. When when you said earlier that your family has that secret thing, they have that thing and you're you're left out. Is is part of that secret thing Angeline? >> No, it's just the way they're like like communicating without with their eyes without talking that I'm not included. >> But while they were eating, didn't you take Angeline and and go walk around with her while everybody finished eating? >> Yeah, she she went to the to the electric door and she liked it. >> Right. >> So we did it. >> So you were playing with the door with her? Okay. So at that point, why not hurt her then? >> I wasn't as mad. >> Okay. So you were having a good time with her then? >> Yeah. >> And what ruined that good time? >> James' phone call. Or Kat's phone call to James. >> And you know, it People who are not sitting in this room may not understand that. That you know, you're having a good time and something triggered it. >> Mhm. That hey, I'm on the phone. I'm with my daughter. She gets a phone call. And hey, you're taking time away from my family time. You know, how dare you? >> I don't know if she called her or the other way around. But I just feel like she's with us. >> Right. >> You know, just just let her be with us. >> Cuz up to that point, you were okay with Angeline. >> Yes. >> You were walking around with her. You were playing with the electric door while other while the rest of your family was eating. >> Right. >> You walked down She was took a train ride, didn't she? >> She did with my with my uh son. >> Right. And did you enjoy watching her on the train? >> Oh, yes. >> Right. So, you were experiencing joy at that point. >> Yes. >> It has or was there anything else throughout the night that took the joy from you? >> It's everything compounded. My family secret thing. >> Right. >> David like getting mad at me. And James' phone call. >> So, it all kind of piled itself on each other? Right. >> And then you >> So, why why not hurt one of them or say something to them? Why the baby? >> I don't know. I I think I just lost it. >> But you know, you're thinking pretty clearly though. You're you're you're rationing rationing using your rationale to say hey, James took away my family time. Now I'm taking something away that he loves. >> That's what I did. >> That's what it seems like. I mean, if I if I'm if I'm not if I'm not misstating your words, you said that you threw Angeline over because James called and you were mad at James because he took your daughter from you at an early age. Is that right? >> Everything. >> He got her pregnant early. They got married early. >> Did she finish college? >> She did. That's me. >> How how long have you been harboring these bad feelings for James? >> Ever since high school. >> Ever since your daughter was in high school? Did they go to high school together? Where did they go? >> Bishop O'Connell. >> Okay. Is James a good guy or does he treat her he treat her right? >> He's really a good guy. I just feel like my daughter got robbed of things. >> Right. >> And and I'm still dwelling on that. >> So, once you threw Angeline over, what how did you feel afterwards? >> I felt bad. That was my granddaughter. >> Right. >> But in the process, I was thinking about James. >> Right. >> What were you thinking right when you threw her? >> That this is James. He owns this one. >> Right. This is James' or this is James's? This is his possession. This child is his possession. >> Yes. >> So, you were trying to hurt James? >> Yes. >> What part of you wanted to hurt Angeline? >> Nothing really. >> I mean, you knew what was going to happen if you threw her over the rail. >> It it happened so fast. Like I lost it. >> Right. How did you know how high it was? >> Not neces- not, you know, specifically. >> No, but I mean, you knew that it was just more than me dropping the pin on the floor right here. >> Yes. >> When when you threw her over, what did you want the end result to be? What did you want to have happen to Angeline? >> I wanted her to be okay. But that's not what happened. >> Right. But I guess I don't understand. How did you want her to be okay if you picked her up throwing her to get back at James to make to make James feel the way you feel? Did you want to kill Angeline? And I want you to be I want you to be honest how you really felt. >> I guess if she's gone then >> No, she's not gone. >> She's okay? >> I don't know if she's okay, but she's not gone. >> Okay. >> They're working on her. >> I guess if she had been gone I would feel good that James doesn't have her anymore. >> Right. So when you when you picked her up and you're looking at her thinking about James you throw her over the railing in hopes to do what? >> For her to be gone. >> To be gone permanently? >> Yes. >> Okay. Did you Were you thinking about the whole time or were just real brief that you thought you wanted to kill her? >> Just that moment. >> Okay. I mean the whole time where you were at the mall and when your son didn't like the camera being taken out and they're communicating in their secret way that you perceive, are you thinking that you want her dead this whole time? When did you start to have those feelings? >> When we were going out of the elevator. >> Okay. >> So what did you think? When did you decide that that was how you were going to kill her? >> I said this is my last opportunity before we go home." >> Okay. >> So, I picked her up and I threw her. >> Were you inside or outside when you thought that? >> We're going from the elevator, we passed by the food court. >> All right. So, the whole way you're walking through the food court, you're thinking I need to pick her up and throw her over the railing so I can kill her. >> Yes. >> Put three of her answers side by side. First, I just lost it. Then she wanted Angeline to be okay. Now she agrees she decided at the elevator and carried that decision to the railing. The step-by-step framing was the detectives. The agreement is hers. On intent, her own timeline now answers the question. What remains is whether she knew it was wrong. >> How how do you feel about that now? >> I wish I could turn back the time. >> Mhm. Why do you wish you could turn back time? >> I wish that I could turn back the time on a lot of things. >> Oh, yeah, I'm sure I mean to the We're all the way back to your father? >> Yes. >> Okay. What what do you think in terms of your actions tonight, what do you think was it right or wrong? >> What I did was wrong. >> All right. Why do you say that? >> Because a sane person wouldn't do this. >> All right. Do you know the difference between right and wrong? >> Yes. >> Okay. So, if someone walked in the room and shot all three of us, would that be wrong? >> Wrong. >> Okay. Stealing a candy bar at the 7-Eleven and not paying for it. >> Wrong. >> That's wrong? Helping an old lady carry her groceries into the house. Is that good or bad? >> That's good. So you know the difference between good and bad, right and wrong. >> Right. >> In your opinion, what you did tonight is what? >> Wrong. >> And at the end of the day, what why do you think you chose to do something that was wrong? >> Because I was mad at James. Still hard word is madness. >> Okay. >> [clears throat] >> And I know what you said by madness, you mean anger? >> Anger. >> And I know you don't like to think about this. But it was your anger that tried to kill your granddaughter or your depression? >> My anger and my depression. >> You think your depression makes you not deal with the anger part of it? >> Yes. >> How how have you changed over the last 12 years? >> How have I changed? >> Mhm. Or since your father's death, since 2000, how how has Carmela changed? >> I was Things are pretty okay at home. >> Mhm? >> You know, I take the kids to school, pick them up, clean up the house. Go grocery, Costco, uh cleaners. You know. >> You have your routine that you do every day? >> Mhm. >> And you like that? >> Mhm. >> When you say kids, what kids do you take to school? >> My two kids. >> Your two kids? >> Yeah. >> Okay. But since your daughter moved out, you just take your son to school now? Does he go to Bishop O'Connell? >> Yes. >> Okay. Is he a senior? >> Senior now. >> Okay. How's he doing in school? >> I'll be not well. >> Not well? Why? >> Because of what I've done. >> How how do you affect him in your daily life now? Why do you think he's doing well because of what you're doing at home? >> Because of what I've done. You know, it it's on the back of his head. >> In terms of overdosing and your depression? I'm not talking about tonight. Just in general, why do you think he's doing bad in school? >> Rebellion. Towards me. >> Is he against you? >> Yes. >> How about your daughter? >> I feel like she's more giving, forgiving, but not out there tonight. >> Did your daughter pick James over you? >> I felt like she did. >> Have you ever had these discussions with her about this? >> Have I ever talked to her about this? >> Mhm. About James and you you're jealous of James' relationship with her. Have you ever talked to her about it, your feelings about that? >> I I think we did. >> Recently? >> No, back then. >> Okay. Before tonight, have you ever had it any other time where you've been angry at James? Since they've been married and had the baby? >> I've always had this. >> In the back of your head? Okay. >> How many times have you thought about doing something like this but didn't have the opportunity? >> To somebody else? Just this time. >> This is the only time you've ever thought about doing something like this? >> Well, like killing somebody? Just this time. But for me, I I did me twice. And then I cut myself. >> On your wrist? >> Yeah. >> When was that? >> This was October. >> Okay. Was that in Fairfax? >> No, this was just at home. >> Okay, you didn't go to the hospital or anything? >> Did your husband take care of you? >> I showed it to him. And he just put band-aids. >> Right. Does he help you take your medicine? Ensure Ensure that you take it? >> He wants me to take it, but I feel like I couldn't take it. >> Can you explain that to us? What do you mean by that? >> I can't put it in my mouth for some reason. >> So, when he says that he watches you take it, do you fake it? Do you You don't actually swallow it? >> No, when he's there, I take it. >> Okay, when he's there, you take it, no problem. He's been gone for the last four or five days. During that time, have you taken your medicine? Not at all? >> Okay. When is the last time you took your medication? >> Last week. Last week. >> He left on Wednesday. >> Tuesday. Tuesday. Monday. Friday. Sometime last week, one day. >> Okay, before he left? >> Yeah. >> Okay. And you Did you purposely not take it while he was gone? >> I don't know. I can't put it in my mouth. Like, you know, I can't go out of the house. >> Right. >> Those two things. Like, I I can't do it. >> Okay. Right. Can you demonstrate for me how you threw Angeline over? >> I threw her up. >> And were you like holding her like you're holding a baby, like in your arms? Or did you actually pick her up and then threw her? >> I said pick her up and then I went like this way. >> And how did you pick her up? By her You scooped her up? >> Uh-huh. >> Okay. So, you have your arm like that. Where is her body on your arm? >> Like >> Like you You can pick up Use the water bottle and show me. So, if that If that's Angeline Uh-huh. So, this is her head? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> This is her >> And you You picked her up from her bottom? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> And then >> And this is the railing right here. >> No. >> And you just dropped her. >> What did you say? >> Did you say anything? >> What did she say? >> I don't remember if she said anything. It happened so fast. >> Did you watch her go all the way down? >> She was already down when I looked. >> What did you see? >> She was lying on her stomach. >> Do you remember what she was wearing? >> I don't know if that's polka dot top, something. >> What color was it? >> Yellow? Yellowish? >> Mhm. >> And a denim. And like some Timberland boots. >> Boots, uh-huh. Um do you take care of her during the day? >> No, not not when I got sick. I used to take care of her. >> Okay. >> I used to take care of her like um once a week. >> And not anymore? >> No. >> Are you ever alone with her now? >> No. >> How come? >> Because I got sick with my depression. >> Right, but is that your decision or is that your daughter your daughter's decision that she's not with you anymore? >> I'm sure it's their decision, my husband and and hers. >> Okay. How'd that make you feel? >> Bad. >> What do you mean by that? >> In a way, you know, I understand why they don't trust me, but I felt like you know, I don't want things to be this way. >> Right. Did you Did you express any displeasure with everybody tonight at all? Did you ever tell them, "Hey, your your conversations between each other are making me mad, or hey, you're talking to James on the phone. Don't do that. This is our time." Did you ever talk to them about that tonight? >> No. >> You just kind of let it boil up inside you? So, when you got out of that elevator you were mad. >> Yes. >> And you were mad at James. And you were mad at Angeline, and you were mad at your husband, and your daughter, and your son. All right. And I'm sorry. I'm just going to go over one thing again. Were you still in the elevator when you decided or was it right outside the elevator when you decided? >> Right outside the elevator. >> As soon as you got off the elevator? And how far of a walk is it from the elevator to the outside doors? >> Maybe six times this. >> So, about how long do you think it took you to get it from [snorts] the elevator to the outside doors? >> 5 minutes. >> About 5 minutes cuz y'all weren't in a hurry, right? >> No. >> So, for 5 minutes you were think you were thinking about doing that. >> Everything just boiled. >> Are you Are you holding her hand still? >> No, no. I wasn't holding her hand. >> She was walking with everybody? >> Was I holding her head? I don't remember if I was holding her hand. >> Okay. But she's she's walking with a group of people. >> The four of us. >> Right. So, when you're walking out that door to go across the sky bridge, are you and her behind everybody else? Everybody else is in front of you? >> Yeah. >> And that was on purpose? >> Yeah, my husband was holding the door. I told him to go up. >> Okay. >> And I picked her up. >> And why did you tell him to go ahead? >> I was thinking about doing what I did. >> Who's who's who do you see as a doctor for depression right now? Anybody in Fairfax? >> Susan Jacobson. >> Okay. And she's at Fairfax or Woodburn or where? >> A nurse practitioner at um Shh. Williams Drive? Is that Williams Drive? >> On Williams Drive? Mhm. In the medical building there? >> Mhm. >> But you haven't seen her since the 1st of November? >> The 2nd of November is my psychologist. >> Okay. Who's that? >> Uh Jean Markey. >> All right. Is that a he or she? >> She. >> Who have they diag- have they given you a diagnosis what your what your problems are, psycholo- psychological problems are? >> Uh well, they're testing this new thing on me. And then maybe Susan Jacobson I'm going to write her down. >> Oh, yeah, we have her written down. I'll write it down again. >> Maybe Susan Jacobson maybe said I'm bipolar. >> Okay. Has anyone ever told you that before? >> No. >> As far as you know, prior to being told you're bipolar, you just had depression issues? >> Yes. >> Any other issues that other people have told you that you've had? >> No, just depression. >> Do you think your depression affects you in terms of knowing right from wrong? >> It affects me, too. >> No, I know it. Depression affects you, but does it affect your ability to know what's wrong, what's right, what's bad, what's good? >> Because I didn't take the medicine. >> Uh-huh. >> I have a feeling that has a contribution also to what I've done. >> Right. >> Yeah, that's He's not asking about what you did. He's asking about you knowing whether it was right or wrong. >> The throwing Angeline, like we talked about earlier, throwing Angeline over the railing, was that right or wrong? >> That's wrong. >> That's wrong. So, even though you're having You're still suffering from depression at this very moment, correct? >> Yes. >> You're still have that that you've never You haven't been cured of your depression. But even though right now you're still dealing with your illness, you know that throwing Angeline off the railing, trying to kill her, is wrong. Is that correct? >> Are you asking me what if what I've done was wrong? >> Correct. [clears throat] >> What I've done was wrong. >> Okay. And you know that. >> Yes. >> Do you have any questions for us, Carmela? >> That >> Okay. Um Any other questions you have for us? >> What's going to happen after this? >> Uh you're At some point tonight, you'll be taken up to the the county jail. Um they'll they'll put you in the women's area. Um I'm not sure. I have We have since we've been here talking, we haven't got an update on to see how your granddaughter is. Depending on what's happened to her, will kind of depend on what you're going to be charged with. Um I mean, as we've talked, you know what you did was wrong. Um I'm not saying there's not some underlying issues with you that, you know, you're having these depression battles, you haven't been taking your medication, but at the end of the day, you know what you did was wrong. So, we're at the Commonwealth attorney, the prosecutors are going to want you to answer to that. So, you'll be charged with something tonight. Um it really depends on how your granddaughter does in the hospital. So, we're going to check on that before we leave. Um best case scenario for you that she does fine, and you'll just be charged with child abuse tonight. Um you taken up to the county jail, be processed, be fingerprinted, and then probably 4 to 6 weeks you'll have a court date. You'll have What's today? Today's Monday. Um probably tomorrow morning you'll go in front of a judge. They call arraignment. And you'll be asked if you understand what the charges are, if you can afford an attorney. Um if you can't afford one, they'll give you one. It's kind of a like a just like administrative type hearing. >> Mhm. >> Then 4 [clears throat] to 6 weeks from then, it'll probably be your first court date. >> Is this going to be out in the public? >> Um I I would imagine there'd be some type of press release just because of where it where it occurred at the Tysons. It's the Christmas. Everyone and their brother's going to, you know, I'm sure the media's up there already. Uh whether or not they release your name or not, that'll be up to um public information office for the police department. Um once you're charged, it's public record, so you'll probably your name will probably be released at that point. Worst case scenario, your granddaughter dies. Um it's up to me, up to the prosecutor, but more than likely you'll be charged with murder. And then, you know, the attorneys will have to work things out from there. Yeah, it's not going to be easy either way. Um you know, we hope and pray that your granddaughter is going to be fine. Um sometimes kids are amazing. They bounce back, and um hopefully hopefully she'll do okay. >> Yeah. >> But, um we'll just have to kind of go from there. All right? >> Okay. >> So, we're going to we'll handcuff you back to that. And then, we're we're just going to be out here. >> Angelyn Ogdoc died of her injuries the following morning, about 9 hours after the fall. Carmela Dela Rosa was charged with first-degree murder. At trial in Fairfax County Circuit Court, her defense argued that she was legally insane, pointing to years of severe depression and to her suicide attempts in the months before. Prosecutors argued that she acted out of anger at her son-in-law, James Ogdoc, and that she understood exactly what she was doing. On October 6th, 2011, the jury rejected the insanity defense and found her guilty of first-degree murder. Jurors recommended 35 years in prison. Prosecutors had asked for life. In January 2012, Judge Bruce White imposed the full 35 years. Her public defender then filed an appeal of the sentence. We found no record that the conviction or the sentence was overturned. Angelyn Ogdoc was 2 years old. On the last evening of her life, she rode a little train and played at doors that opened by themselves. She was her parents' daughter, and she deserved a whole life ahead of her. We remember Angelyn. If you value real police interrogations, critical moments, and the investigative strategies that uncover the truth, subscribe to Evidence Lab Interrogation and turn on notifications so you don't miss the next interrogation. Until next time, stay observant, because in the interrogation room, every word matters.