So, they did send me a picture of the changing table. >> Yeah. >> And it's like concave in the middle. >> Mhm. >> Which, you know, >> that's what I was telling you. It's kind of like ramped, right? It's kind of got like a rounded edge to it, like a half pipe, >> which makes me, you know, outside perspective, not attacking you or anything, but I see that and I'm like, that'd be weird. >> How did she get out of it? >> Like, if you came off the side, >> you'd think she probably would have landed on the carpet. >> I understand it. I get it. It doesn't make any sense. >> The doctor says that the baby's been shook. You guys are asking me if the baby's been shook. The baby's been shook, I guess. >> Okay. >> Where's she going? Children's >> B North. >> B North right now. Um, what's going on? What happened? >> I was feeding her. She was having complications with just like being comforted. So, I took her to go change her diaper. She fell off and like I I guess I like tried to snatch her or something. So I think she smacked the back of her head, but like I didn't catch her in time. So I I don't know. I >> Okay. Who's here with you? >> Just me. >> Just here. >> Yeah. And I have another baby. >> Where's mom at? >> She's at work up in Dayton. >> Okay. Take us in and let us see where Yeah. >> Ghanian Township, Ohio. A quiet neighborhood in Claremont County, northeast of Cincinnati. Monday, November 4th, 2024. At around 6:49 in the morning, 33-year-old Andrew Cameer calls 911. His four-month-old daughter, Evelyn, one of twin girls, is having trouble breathing. When officers arrive, he tells them she fell from a changing table while he turned to pick up her pacifier. He walks them through the nursery and shows them where he says she landed. Evelyn is rushed to Cincinnati Children's Hospital. There, an MRI shows a substantial amount of bleeding around her brain. And when doctors later examine her twin sister, they find injuries, too. Older ones that had never been reported. Evelyn's mother, Danielle, was at work that morning. Andrew was the only adult in the house. By late morning, he is sitting in a hospital consultation room with Goshan Township detectives Greg Mallister and Chris McMillan. They need to know one thing. Can his account explain what the doctors are finding? This is the interrogation of Andrew Cameraer. >> You want to just have a seat here? Hello. My name is Greg Mallister. I'm a detective with Goan Police Department. This is uh Sergeant Detective Chris McMillan. How are things here? What What's going on? I'm I haven't gotten an update from anybody. >> Her pulse is really weak and they're worried about her not being able to pull through right now. >> Okay. So, it's not good. Not good. And then I'm talking to you guys and it's just like I'm [ __ ] scared, man. I'm just so scared. >> So, this is a normal procedure with these types of situations, you know? >> I understand that, but I'm still just so scared, dude. I'm so scared. >> Why don't you tell me what happened? >> So, it was like I got him up. It was probably And so, I went in, put her pacifier in her mouth. It was probably about 5:45ish. They usually get up a little bit before 6:00 and then I get up at 6:00 and you know warm up milk and get them seated in their uh they have a little boppy thing which was on the ottoman right in front of the TV in my house. I don't know if you guys have to go over there. >> I've not been there now. >> So we set them in there and that way we can you know having twins is a little difficult to just do you know I can't like hold both of the babies and feed them both at the same time. So having things like the poppies and the pillows are able to like help me do that. So get them fed and um it's probably about like 620 I've got them like they're starting to follow. I guess she's uh they're on a medicine called fodine. They're preeis man. They're just they're not fully developed, right? So, >> Mhm. >> she's pushing and arching her back a lot because of that acid and um so she's not settled. So, to sleep at 6:36 and I'm thinking like, you know, I I need to start getting ready. I have to go to work soon and uh I got I dropped them off at my parents house on my way to work. So, I took her into the nursery and I'm, you know, trying to get her ready and um I unzip her jumper and I put it up, you know, wrap it up by her and um I take her diaper off. There's pee in it. No poop. So, I uh kind of rubbed her legs a little bit and then kind of like pushed them gently on her stomach, see if that would help. And it did. She pooped. And then um she started fussing, spit out her paci and I it it came off the the side of the um the changing table and it bounced. So I turned around for a second and I guess in that time she did the whole arching thing cuz she's literally like launching towards the ground when I turned around. And it's at that point like I pick her up and I'm soothing her and she stops crying as I'm like soothing her but then she starts grunting and she's changing colors and so uh that's kind of when I notice like I guess she's not like breathing the right way that she's supposed to be breathing, right? I mean she's not like screaming. She's honestly her eyes are kind of like almost fuzzy looking and she's not looking well. So, I instantly called 911 and I'm on the phone with the uh the operator and I'm I I just at after that it's just I just tried to do everything I could to help her, man. So, I don't know. I mean, that's that's that's it. Like, I couldn't even tell you what happened really after that. I know that everybody's in my house. That was the one thing she said is is the door unlocked? No. I I I had the baby. So, I I went and unlocked the door. I went back. I grabbed my phone and then I'm in there. And that's when I was doing chest compression. So like right in the in the corner of my sectional, she spit up all sorts of milk. She's limp as just like pasta. Just absolutely just limp and colorless. And it was it's it's the worst thing ever. It's the absolute worst thing ever. >> These are your only two children? >> Mhm. >> No. No older children. >> I've never had This is This is the first time I've ever had children. This is the only, you know, ever. Ever. Never had a child before. Don't know what the [ __ ] I'm doing. and I'm just trying to make it every single day. >> So, is there is there a camera in the room where the changing table is? >> No, they face the cribs so we can watch them. >> Is that in the same room? >> Mhm. >> Okay. And do they record? >> I don't think so. I think they just are live. >> Okay. All right. And so, she's in She was laying in the bobby asleep. My watch is dead now, but I checked my watch. It was 6:36 and I walked into the nursery and started to change out. >> But you had already changed her once that morning. >> Mhm. I changed them as soon as I wake them up. And I They were farting. So, I mean, pooping and farting, you know, you you don't know until you check. So, um, and her diaper was wet, so there was a blue streak on it. So, I figured might as well change it anyway if we're already this deep instead of just letting her sit in it. And so your changing table, it's kind of long ways. >> It's and so it's stuck in there. Yes. It's uh perpendicular to how I would, you know, approach it, right? So it's she's laying perpendicular to me. >> So she's laying long ways in the changing table. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> And but I mean they're for not they're 4 months tomorrow. They're super like mobile and I should have strapped her in is the biggest thing. I should have [ __ ] strapped her. >> So, is it common for her to roll? >> She pushes a lot. Yes. >> Pushes or rolls? >> With his feet. She's pushing with her feet. >> So, she has acid reflux and um they arch their backs and they're trying to I guess relieve or the pain and stuff, the acid and the gas being in their chest. So, she's arching her legs. She's very stiff. And she'll push like that. >> And she comes off the end of the changing table or off the front? >> She came off the side. Off the front. >> Okay. So, if she's laying perpendicular to the to the side. >> No, I understand. >> And she's pushing with >> They have like I don't know how she did it, man. I legitimately don't because she wedged or or something and she it was almost like she did roll. She pushed and somehow I guess because of like going off the the side she rolled or something. I don't know. I I I turned around to get the paci. I I kid you not. Like it happened like that. I don't know. Right. >> I really don't. >> Uh but do you know of her to roll from back to belly? Have you ever seen her do that before? >> She's been working on it. Yeah. >> But has she done it before >> fully? No. She's never done a full rotation. >> Okay. What about Darcy? >> Darcy. >> Darcy does a full back to belly. Not consistently, but she does. >> Okay. And when is it when she's having like the bloating issues or the acid reflux or does she just do it because she's mobile? >> Um, so her big thing right now, especially in the boppy, she likes to sit forward. She doesn't like >> I mean, she loves to lift her head up and rotate and look around. Uh, she prefers to be on her back. So, Okay. So, what did he tell you happened? >> He told me that she was on the changing table. She fell. When he initially called me, it was a real quick. I was like, "Okay, where are they taking her? I need to go in her like I need to let them know I'm leaving." Got off the phone and got back up. As soon as I was on the road, I called him back. I had Bluetooth in my car. I was like, "I need you to tell me exactly what happened." That's when they told me she had spit her paci out. He bent down to pick it up. And that's when she must have done her rigid. She loved to go rigid and it would almost launch her. Even if you were holding her, she'd almost launch herself out of your arms. But she must have done her rigid stance and it launched her off. And as soon as he said he called 911 just immediately, >> but that's >> So, have you ever seen her roll from back to belly? >> She has not done that. >> Okay. >> She's only just recently got herself up onto her side. >> Okay. >> And that was Two days ago, she started rolling on to her side by herself. >> Danielle was not home that morning. Everything she knows about the fall, she heard from Andrew over the phone on her drive from work. But on one point, she is speaking from her own experience. Evelyn had never rolled from her back onto her belly. 2 days earlier, she had only started turning onto her side. >> And you did you see her out of the corner of your eye? Did you see her at all? What made you realize that she had coming out of this? I heard the sound of her swooshing off the uh the pad and I I just and I I don't know. I grabbed the paci and that's why it was it's literally on the changing table now cuz I had grabbed it and I was turning around anyway and that's when Yeah. It happened. >> Did you see it happen or did you >> not? No, I just saw the aftermath of like it was literally a split second. I mean it's only a like waist high table. >> Yeah. >> So it's it's like 3 ft. So, she fell down and you know, I'm just trying to get her. >> What did she land on? >> The floor. >> Okay. What kind of floor is it? >> Um, right where she landed, it's like um hardwood and then the carpet's like right next to it. So, there's a small gap of hardwood there. >> Okay. And when you when you see her laying on the floor, what kind of position was she in? >> She landed on her face. >> Okay. Um, was her was she flat? Was she kind of punched up? >> Well, yes, she I mean she as as she's there. Yes, she has been flat and I picked her up like instantly. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Uh and you you pick her up obviously. What What do you do after you pick her up? >> Well, I'm holding her like this and I'm kind of like bouncing her. It's like, "Oh, oh my god, you're okay." >> Turn her around and she's you're facing each other. >> Yes. And her lip is bleeding. She's got this mark on her chin and I'm just like, "What the I'm I'm freaking out. I'm legitimately just freaking out." So, >> so, so then what >> then I'm trying to soo her, right? >> Is she crying? Is she >> She she was fussing and crying and then she started grunting. She stopped crying and started grunting and her eyes like almost kind of like closed a little bit. Not all the way. They were like half open and she's grunting and like I said, she started changing colors and that's when I called 911. >> Okay. So then I I actually set her back down on the table then and I called 911. >> So approximately 6:36 you walk in there, right? Or did you say 6:34? >> 6:36. >> 6:36. So 63. >> I watched it was 6:36. >> And what time do you end up calling 911? >> I don't know. I couldn't tell you. Just right after >> approximately >> 5 minutes later, probably. >> So it happened pretty quickly after taking >> so quickly. Very, very quickly. Fire. She's still fussing. So I'm going to go change her diaper. Go into the nursery. 636 changed her diaper. All right. I unzipped her zipper on her outfit, pulled her legs out, and pulled her little jumper up around like by by her waist. >> Oh, okay. So, you keep it partially all >> I kept it partially on her. Yeah. I didn't That's what I was trying to understand. >> Yeah. I did not take it all the way off of her. So, then I took off her diaper >> and I have it set on the side cuz there's no poop in it. And like I said, I rubbed their legs a little bit just to see what was going on, see if I could get it to go out. She squirted out a little bit of poop just in just right on the nightstand or on the not the nightstand, the uh changing table. And then I'm trying to wipe that up. She's fussing. She's doing the arching thing. So then she spit out the pacifier and then launched off the side of the counter. >> Okay. >> All right. And I mean I don't know the 6:47 I called. So it was almost 10 minutes after that. >> Did you call your fiance first or anything like that? >> 911. Okay. And then I was on the phone with them and um as soon as the uh the paramedic came out um I literally text Danielle emergency and that was >> 51 651. >> Listen to how the timeline has moved. In his first account, Andrew said that when Evelyn stopped looking well, he called 911 instantly. asked again. He estimated about 5 minutes. Now he puts the call at 6:47. That is 11 minutes after he says he carried her into the nursery at 6:36. The gap alone proves nothing. But it is time his account has to fill. And by his own description, he never actually saw her fall. He heard it. >> Uh, do you have any questions before I do this for him? >> Uh, my first off And appreciate you talking with us. But I know you're got a lot going on right now and this like detective Mac was saying just procedural stuff that we have to do. >> I understand. It doesn't change the fact that it's still still scary. >> I understand. >> I got a lot to lose, man. I got a whole house. I got two well two kids, a wife. I've got all these things and the last thing I want to do is be, you know, locked up in jail for something that was, you know, I I did not hurt my kid. I didn't kill her. I didn't do anything like that. So my question uh just one thing I have just to touch on before uh that form is [snorts] >> when you said f face down >> it was a second it was it was so fast >> when you picked her up you're kind of I guess assessing how everything is with her. Did you notice any type of >> marks? She had a a mark on the side of her. What was it? the this side of her head. She has a mark on the her chin here and underneath and on top of and then her lip was like I said bleeding and I don't understand how unless if she hit her, you know, lip on something. I don't understand how her lip could be bleeding but she doesn't have teeth. She doesn't have like anything like that. So again like but that those were the things I noticed. So, I'm soothing her and like I said, she's she's upset for literally again like a second and then she starts going into like I guess shock or she's not breathing or something happened and oh no, she changed colors. She started looking gray. All of her pinkish tone went away. >> How were you soothing her? Can you just like this? >> Okay. lightly. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> I didn't shake her. >> Okay. >> I'm so scared to shake those things. I I I don't >> just to get away from this form and back to, you know, kind of trying to figure out what happened or or understand what happened. Uh let's go through this what happened one more time if you don't mind. So, starting from the beginning until EMS arrives, if you could explain to me what happened from the time you wake up. >> Okay. So, again, like I wasn't totally checking on what time I woke up. Sounds. I pick her up. Like I said, it's 6:36. Now, I walk her into the nursery, flip on the light switch, set her on the table, head is facing towards the top, feet are facing towards the bottom. I pull out a diaper out of the drawer, pull the diaper off, or I unzip I zip up, fold the legs up, get them out of the way, get them away from the poop, and uh no poop. It's just a wet diaper. I wriggle her legs a little bit, push them towards her stomach. She squirts out a little bit of poop and a little bit of pee. All right, so I kind of wipe that up. And um she's now a little more upset. She's fussing now. She's kind of discomforted, right? So then she pushes or pushes her paci out, spits it out. I'm grabbing that. And like I said, I turned away just for a brief second. It's probably like an inch from the foot of her crib. I grab that and that's when she's again I heard the swish and then the hit. So, >> picked her up and then Oh, yeah. I'm sorry. I apologize. Um, I picked her up. I'm soothing her. I see her face. I see her mouth. And I'm I set her down. I wiped it off and um she's not making a lot of noise, right? She was fussing initially and then she's not fussing. And then I pick her back up. Um, as I see she's changing colors. I'm reaching for my phone. I'm calling 911 and then um I'm on the phone with them and like honestly I didn't even have it on speaker phone. Like I'm freaking out. I'm like stressing out right then and there and like I don't know. And then um she slowly stops grunting and starts going into this limp pose and um her eyes are like gloss or like not as glossy as normal. She doesn't look active. Um, she's definitely pale and uh I'm seeing that mark that's on her belly now or the the lower part where that diaper was. So, I could see that there was pressure there. Um the the lady on the phone is talking, but I'm mostly kind of just like doing this bouncing position where I'm like I'm kind of like this, you know, kind of p pacing and bouncing and trying to uh just, you know, get some response out of her now. I was soothing first and then trying to get that response. And um I actually I did blow in her mouth a couple of times just to see if there was any like cuz it looked like she Okay. And your fiance, what's her name? >> Danielle. >> And Danielle, what time does she leave for work? >> She leaves for work probably around 3:30. I don't know. She's she's kind of she doesn't have uh that uh consistency, but she she usually leaves for work around 3:30 to 4:00. She works up in Dayton around 4, so it's a 40minut drive and she's usually pushing it. So, >> um [snorts] and is this that's been her schedule throughout? How long's she been back to work? >> Um I think it was September 1st is when she went back to work. >> Okay. So, since September 1st, this has been your daily routine? >> Uh-huh. Yeah. Just about every day. Other than Saturday and Sundays, I I ask that I get like an extra hour of sleep, but uh for the most part, yeah, I do this almost every day. >> What do you mean you ask that you get >> I asked Danielle to get them up cuz she's off on Saturdays and Sundays. >> Oh, okay. [clears throat] >> So, I ask her to take that that wake up routine. >> So, >> so Monday through Friday it's your gig. Saturday, Sunday, it's her gig. >> Yeah. But for the most part, I still help out with it and bottle feeding and everything like that. So, >> okay. >> As much as I'd like to get a little extra rest, I don't. >> How would you How would you describe your your personality when it comes to stress, >> man? I' I've got ADHD and probably autism and stuff like that. I'm not great with stress, but in stressful situations like I I don't uh I don't just panic. I try to I try to solve the problem whatever that stressor might be. >> Okay. And have you ever encountered a problem where you couldn't resolve it? >> I mean, yeah, I get I get panicked. I get anxious. But, uh, I don't usually retain a lot of stress. This has probably been one of the [clears throat and cough] longest times in my life. For the past 4 months, I've had a lot of stress that I just have not cuz normally I'm in the gym. Normally I'm riding my motorcycle, but I don't have a normal catharsis for stress right now. So I have been a little more stressed. >> Okay. And um at at any stage of this stress, would you ever say that you've reacted violently? >> Never. >> Okay. Um so obviously the the reason for my my question is I just want to ask you straight up, did you shake your baby? >> No. >> Okay. Has that thought ever crossed your mind? >> No, but I I have concerns because I'm told that I've I've been told a lot through my life that I'm I don't know my own strength. So, I'm very concerned. And Danielle reassures me all the time that you're not shaking the baby. But like I was holding my leg like this and I'm I'm an anxious person, man. I've got ADHD. So, I I guess I'm anxious. I don't know. I don't feel anxious, but lately I have. And I don't know. I was bouncing the baby one time and my mom's like, "You're bouncing her too hard." Or something like that. So, I I get it into my head and Danielle tells me all the time. She's like, "You're not shaking the babies, Andrew. You need to relax. You are you're being a good father. You're doing everything that you need to do." >> But I understand the concern. I really do. >> Okay. Um, >> are they saying that that's why she's like that? >> I haven't talked to them. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Um, but so this morning, would you say that you were stressed out? >> Yeah. I mean, my baby's fussing. She's not, you know, being cooperative, but she's a 4-month old baby. You can't, you know, talk to them like they're, you know, a child. >> So, they they just all they know how to do is laugh and cry, >> right? >> So, they don't really have communicators. So, yeah, I'm I mean, I'm a little stressed. I I know like I'm coming up on the time that I need to hop in the shower. She's not really being fine as far as taking the nap that she needs to take so that I can, you know, go do the things that I need to do. But I'm not, you know, I'm not taking that out on her. There's no reason to, you know, that's just something I can figure it out. I can take a 3minut shower instead of like an 8 minute shower, right? I can make up the time. I'm not worried about that. I'm just I just wanted to soo her. I just wanted her to be happy and lay down and go to sleep. >> Okay. And did you do that? >> What do you mean? >> So, you're saying you said I just wanted to soo her? >> Yeah. So, I that's why I took her into the nursery to change her diaper to help soothe. >> Okay. But you didn't you didn't shake her or um do your I'm not sure how what better way to describe it other than just the kind of >> So they they say that they like it's it's like a rocking motion, right? So if you're like bouncing and you're swaying and you're doing this, it's just it's a soothing nature. You can also hold them in the pancake or the football hold and you do it that way. And it's it's one of there's like five S's. their swaddle soothe. And obviously I didn't have her swaddled um cuz I didn't want her to like she she kind of fights the swaddle. She doesn't love it. So um we only do that at night and that nap time. But uh no, I was just trying to do the sway and the bouncing so that I could soothe her and and see what what's really going on so that when I set her down on this table cuz they like to be held. They're very contact oriented. Can you can you see what she did? >> They're very contact oriented, right? They want to be held. They want to want their contact. But, uh, no, I did. I didn't sh based on based on kind of what you're saying, you feel like you're do you feel like your daughters are safe with him? >> Yes. >> Okay. always they were safe with them. >> Okay. >> Even now, I still feel like they're safe with them because I know accidents can happen. >> So, did they give you an update? >> Yes. >> Okay. Do you know what the doctor who which doctor it was? >> No. >> What was the update? >> Not that that she's basically going to end up being brain dead. that she has went without too much oxygen on her brain that she's not going to pull through. >> Another thing because you've both come to the hospital in these situations, we do a search warrant on the house. That's standard of practice. Uh which was done, you know, after um and you came along. So, uh that's why there's officers out there now. They're kind of, you know, collecting any type of evidence. >> The uh >> play set >> probably in the hamper. >> Okay. Do you remember what color it was or anything? It >> was white with pumpkins and ghosts and stuff on it. It's like a Halloween one or zip up. So before you went out, uh we were talking um after this incident happens, do you feel like you may have shaken her or >> No, I don't I don't feel like I shook her. I really don't. I like I said, it it was bobbing, man. It's I don't want to hurt my babies. I love them so much. I legitimately care more. I I said this the second that they were born. I knew them for a day and I'd do anything in the world for them. There's like I wouldn't even do that to somebody I've known 10 years. >> Yeah. >> And something about them. And I even told Danielle, it's the weirdest feeling in the world knowing that you do anything for this this little thing. >> Yeah. Uh do you and Danielle fight? >> No. I mean, we we argue about like finances and [ __ ] but we don't know. Okay. How often would you say that is? >> Maybe a couple times a month. >> Uh, does it ever get physical? >> No. >> Okay. Uh, do you ever punch walls, break stuff, anything like that? >> I woke up one time with a night tear and I punched the door in my bedroom. I'm sure they saw that. >> I'm not sure. >> Okay. Well, yeah, I I punched that, but no, we don't we don't I don't have any >> How long ago was that? >> I don't know, man. uh maybe like earlier this year, like the beginning of the year, like January. I don't even I couldn't even tell you. It It happened so long ago. This whole year has felt like it's been 10 years. I'm not going to lie to you. This has been the longest year and the the roughest year of my entire life. >> But you didn't punch any walls or break anything this morning? >> No. >> Okay. What about last night? >> No. Okay. >> Uh, has he ever broken anything or punched holes in the wall or anything like that? >> Uh, he has on the door on our our closet door. He's only done that he's only hit it twice in um I want to say it's been like four years that we have. >> What What caused that? It was typically we were in an argument and it just kept instead of us reaching any sort of agreement it just kept boiling and boiling. Okay. >> So I mean they're very few and far like he's not like he's not at violent in any way shape or form. >> It was really just a screen door that he was fixing. So, I guess one of the conversations on during that time frame is that I guess his mom walked into the bedroom and asked about the damage to the door. Do you recall that conversation with her? >> Yeah. >> What was that conversation? >> Um, he didn't want his parents to know that he had intentionally punched the door. So, I told her that he had uh he had woken up from a nightmare and panicked and hit the door. So at the hospital, I think he was asked about the door and he used that. >> So she's a little more passive. She shuts down a little bit. >> Okay. So is it possible that something else happened this morning that you're not telling us that goes along Evelyn falling out of her changing table? >> No, man. I told you everything. There's not another thing that I can think of that I I haven't told you. I I break it down by as much time by as much. >> So, they did send me a picture of the changing table. >> Yeah. >> And it's like concave in the middle. >> Mhm. >> Which, you know, >> that's what I was telling you. It's kind of like ramped, right? Yeah. >> Kind of got like a rounded edge to it, like a half pipe, >> which makes me, you know, outside perspective, not attacking you or anything, but I see that and I'm like, that'd be weird. >> How did she get out of it? I I know what you're saying, man. And trust me, after what the doctor said, too. It's got me thinking and all these concerns and all these worries and all these things like that. But they move. She moves so much, right? She moves around tremendously. They both do. And like even setting her in there, like that's the changing table. She's kicking all over the place. They both do. They move so much. I I don't know. I don't I don't I don't know how. Okay. Um, is it possible that you dropped her and this this statement or this situation has just confirmed like conformed into her falling off this changing table? >> No, I No, I've never dropped them. I've never done anything that I I I don't feel comfortable holding them a lot. I'll be honest. I don't because they're so small, right? Yeah, >> I don't love holding the babies. I I I think it's terrifying. I'm absolutely petrified to hold these little girls. >> And looking at the looking at this picture >> Mhm. >> Um it doesn't really look like So this is how it's set up. Correct. >> Right. >> Okay. It doesn't look like it would even be possible to land in this little area, right? Like if you came off the side, >> you'd think she probably would have landed on the carpet. >> Carpet. >> Yeah. >> So, show me, you know, where she where she was laying at here. >> Right here. Oops. Like right in here. >> Okay. So where she her head was right here and she like I I again like I heard her swashing sound and then she's laying here on on man. I understand I get it. It doesn't make any sense. And if you got to do whatever you got to do I get it. >> No it's it's not that's not the way that this works. I'm just trying to get a understanding you know exactly what happened. And obviously, you know, there is another side of me that says, "Hey, we could be sitting across from someone who who made a terrible mistake with their kid." Uh, and now we have a a duty to protect this other child. Right. >> Yeah. >> So, >> dude, I'm so scared. I mean, and I'm I'm even telling Danielle, I was like, Danielle, they're going to send me to jail, but you can sell the house, you make the money, pay off your things, do whatever you're going to do, put it towards a new house. I mean, I don't I don't know. I just I don't I don't know. >> The doctor says that the baby's been shook. You guys are asking me if the baby's been shook. The baby's been shook. I guess I don't I don't understand. >> This is the central problem for Andrew's account. He describes a fall of about 3 ft. But by his own description, Evelyn had a mark on the side of her head, a mark on her chin, and a bleeding lip. Injuries in several places from a single fall. The detective has seen a photo of the table curved in the middle and believes a baby coming off its side should have landed on carpet. and the medical evidence would go much further. Doctors documented bleeding around her brain, broken ribs, and lacerations to her liver. The criminal complaint would state that her injuries were inconsistent with an accidental fall. >> Well, I'm not I refuse to put words in your mouth, but I do think that there are some, you know, there are some facts and circumstances here that make me question, you know, whether a child just simply fell out of a fell out of a changing table. >> Yeah, I know. It doesn't make any sense. But, you know, I'm taking what you're telling me and I'm trying to compare that. >> I didn't even use the straps, man. There's straps on the [ __ ] changing table. I should have used the straps. >> Have you heard of shaking baby cases before? >> Never. I mean, I I've heard of people, you know, talking about shaking babies. >> Yeah. >> I And I mean, it's basically like them getting whiplash, right? >> Mhm. So their heads are so heavy, their necks are not. So shaking a baby would cause it to basically smash their brain against the skull of their head and damage the brain, >> right? >> Yeah. >> So you're familiar with them? >> I've heard Yeah, I've heard of it, but I I mean I don't know any other cases. I've never heard of a case of sh of shaken baby. >> Okay. Uh so for people who do that kind of stuff, what do you think should happen to them? >> I mean, obviously I think they they get punished, right? I mean, if you She's She's going to die. She's going to die, right? So then I've essentially by either some sort of negligence or something, I've killed my child. And I I mean, >> I'm not asking you in this situation. I'm saying in in a situation where it's confirmed that a baby was shaken. >> I mean, >> what do you think should happen to that person? >> The is there some sort of Yeah, I mean, it should be penalized, right? >> How do you think it should be penalized, though? >> I I don't know. Well, I mean, I don't uh I don't understand how a lot of this bureaucracy and the judicial system works in that regard, but I mean, is it a time frame? Is that I I don't know. I guess you go to jail. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> How long do you think they should go to jail for? >> I have no I I don't know. I mean, >> you forever sentence. I I don't know. I mean, they're babies. >> I'm asking what your opinion, what you think should happen if it was if in a case where it was confirmed, you know, a shaken baby. Well, if if I mean again, was it somebody who's stressed out? Was it somebody who is considered like violently doing it just because like they don't love their children or something like that? I mean, there's there's >> I think both those factors are important. >> Okay. So I I mean I guess it goes into then goes into the courts and if you can separate the two. If one's, you know, loves their child and didn't mean to do something and one hates their child and wishes that they never had it. I mean obviously I think that's that's worth penalizing forever in my opinion. You you've killed a child. You've killed something that has an opportunity to do something in this world and you'll they'll never know what they can do. You'll never understand what that child could have done in this world. could have saved the world. >> And the other side, >> I don't know, man. It's uh accidents do happen. Everybody keeps saying that to me, but I I mean, I had to think a lifetime sentence would be a little ridiculous. But if it was an accident and you you gave all your love and you did everything you for this child, I don't know, maybe maybe take him a little bit easier and, you know, knock some off of it. Knock time off. I don't know. >> So, like these other people have been telling you, accidents do happen. Not only do accidents happen, but people make mistakes. Based on the circumstances here, I think that a mistake was made. Well, absolutely, man. If I had not put her down on that table, if I had not walked away, right, or stepped away, >> you know, >> if I had not done what if I had I don't know, taken just a second, probably taken a breath >> instead of reacting to the pacifier. My child will be alive. I don't even know what she could have done, man. Wait, I always teased her so much. Just a little baby. >> What do you mean? >> I just teased her because she always stuck her tongue out a lot. Just like I don't know. I just always thought that she wanted to talk and say stuff and she just didn't have a way of doing it. Always the look in her eyes. I mean, just I just teased her for it. I was like, "Oh, you're going to be silly with tongue out and stuff like that." >> Yeah. So, based on based on our conversation and you know, you explaining uh you know kind of there's two sides to this. There's a a e agregious what I would call describe as a monster, right? Uh but there is the other side of that that is an overstressed person overreacting to a situation or reacting to a situation that causes you know u an injury to a child. >> She's not injured. >> What's that? >> She's not injured, man. There's there's no coming back. They straight up said she didn't have enough air on her brain. That's that's she's going to die. Whether it's today, whether it's a week from now, we don't know. But there's there's no chance for her to >> Okay. And even even in in death, I think that there's two sides to this situation. There's egregious and there's someone who's overstressed. >> Mhm. >> I think that you fall into the overstressed side of that. >> Yeah. >> But I have to know what happened. >> Mhm. And it and again, I'm not a doctor, but based on my conversation with the doctor there, um this is not consistent with just a baby falling >> falling. Yeah. And hitting their head. Yeah. I understand. >> So, what else could have happened? >> I don't know, man. I I told you everything. I've literally I She doesn't love this position. The position that she likes being held in is with her legs facing out so that her head is against my chest and that she she feels better in that position. Right. I don't know if it's more stimulating. I don't understand. She doesn't like this position and I know that. But I was trying to assess what had happened. Right. >> Mhm. And I can't tell because like I said, the busted lip, the the mark on her chin, like how cuz yeah, everyone tells you babies bounce. Babies, you know, h they just bounce and they get right back up, right? So, >> well, that's the other part of it, too, is you said that there's an injury on the side of her head and then an injury on the chin and on the the mouth. If a baby falls and doesn't bounce, how does that injury she get an injury here, here, here? >> Well, yeah. I don't know how how how you don't understand that. That's why I was looking at it. I I couldn't possibly understand how the lip the lip and the chin would make sense, but like Yeah, I don't understand. >> So, you know, based on the the severity of the injury, it would make sense. One of two things. Not only would you get brain damage from shaking baby syndrome or u u a TBI from it, but if you tossed your baby >> Mhm. >> you would get that. >> Sure. >> If you tossed them hard enough. >> I I promise on my entire existence the 33 years on my life did not throw my baby. >> Okay. Did you drop her? >> No. >> Okay. All right. Do you have any questions for me? >> What's next? Do you guys come get me or do I just go with you now? I don't understand. >> We have to figure out what happened. Figure out what happened here. >> Children from the NICU. Was there any like special instructions given to you guys from the doctors as far as taking care of premature babies? >> No special instructions. Um, >> so they >> at least they've made sure that I had signed a paper saying that I wouldn't shake my baby, who I could call if I was getting frustrated. Um, and then when he got there, they had us watch CPR video. But did he ever have to >> morning and at night issues? [clears throat] >> So then going just a little bit further past when you asked, you know, you want me to come home? >> Um, you know, like you said earlier, Andrew replied, um, back saying you're getting more upset, advised he was just going to kill himself. Um then he says that something the effect of they want to even look at me I'm a monster to them >> that >> and he goes on you say you're not a monster and he says I am because I hurt them and you say you don't hurt them. He says I do. I squeeze and hold them too roughly I drift them around too hard. Bounce them too hard. I am hurting them. You say no you're not Andrew. They're resilient babies. He said, 'I hope so because her father is [ __ ] And you say, 'N no, you're not. It's adjustment period. Um, and we go down just a little bit further to that. He said, "They're attached or you say they're attached to me and need to form an attachment to you. You aren't hurting them." Andrew says, "I am." He said, "You're not. Give me one good reason as to why you think he's hurting them." and he replies back with so the day before. >> Those messages were sent on September 16th, Danielle's first day back at work. 7 weeks before Evelyn was hurt. In his own words, Andrew described squeezing the twins, jerking them around, and bouncing them too hard. In the hospital, asked if he had ever reacted violently, he told detectives, "Never." But he also raised the phrase that keeps returning in this case, that he doesn't know his own strength. Now, the detective circles back to exactly that. >> Um, I did kind of want to circle back just real quick on something that you'd mentioned earlier. Um, that sometimes you don't you feel like you don't realize your own strength. >> Mhm. >> Um, >> did I squeeze her? Did I do something like that? >> Well, maybe. I mean, you tell me. Is there anything that happened today where maybe you felt that you didn't realize your own strength or when you were trying to get her to >> No to use the bathroom? >> I am I am No. And that's that's one of the things the concerns that I had because >> went up to Liberty Children's one time and they told us that she was fighting off a cold but she was constipated and she was all these other things. And I thought it was me. I literally thought that I somehow punctured or did something. But I it's it's a gentle push and like I have to sit there and think like yeah they're not you know a 215 lb man right? So I you don't have the same horse play per se. So no I I'm I'm constantly in fear that I'm doing something that's going to hurt these children. >> I I think about it all the time. I'm excessively like overconidering how much strength I put into certain things. I >> is that fear for concern or fear that you can't control yourself though? >> It's not fear that I well that is me controlling myself in my opinion. I think that if I am paranoid to almost paranoid about even picking them up. I don't want to I don't want to pick them up and have them like whip back, right? Like I don't I don't even want to do that. That's how concerned I am with just maintaining my own strength. And again, that's where like I love going to the gym because you do get that uh >> that tenseness out, right? You do get to release and um riding your motorcycle. It's like going to the gun range or something like that. You're so dialed in and focused on what you're doing that everything else kind of falls away. All your stressed relieved. So, I I mean, yeah, I know I don't have the catharsis and it's been a struggle and but no, like I didn't sit here and just crank this kid's head to her her tailbone. >> Mhm. >> You didn't do that at all? >> No. lightly. >> This I can understand this a little bit better now, but I don't remember what it was. >> Well, I can I can Google it myself. No, but I'm curious. Um, looking back all the times that he says he's hurt, seeing bruises, knowing the thing on the eighth, ribs cracking, then only pain medicine and helping. Does that change your opinion on what happened? Looking back in hindsight, it does. >> And what is that? >> That he he did hurt he did hurt my baby and he wasn't being honest with me about what happened that day. I took him at his word with him saying he thought maybe he gassed her too hard. And with it being hindsight, I feel like I should have pushed for more when we went to Children's versus. >> Yeah, I'm kind of I'm kind of concerned that it wasn't X-rays that day for some reason. I'm not sure why. >> Hi, here. Yes. May speak or may I speak to him, please? Andrew. >> Andrew. Uh, I'm here with Coach Patrick. You step out. >> All right. Andrew, go ahead and turn around for me. >> Hands on your back. Pause together. >> Yes, I can. I wore it for us. >> Pants. >> You got some shoes. >> He's getting them. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> They have the gray ones there. >> These? >> No, the gray ones. Just the slip on. >> What? >> The slipons. The shorts should be just fine. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Just change them out. >> Yeah. You're going to get changed out anyways. >> Don't worry about it. >> Nope. You got anything on you? >> Take my hat. No, I have nothing. I have a a small stone that was with my daughter. >> Here, I'll take that. >> You want mom to keep it? >> Sure, you can take that. >> Okay. You >> I have nothing else on. >> So, I said don't worry about it. >> Don't worry about that. >> Okay. You want to turn around? Just kind of step down sideways. >> Yes, sir. >> We're going to walk down the road and then uh hang a left back to our car. Okay. >> Sir, now that we're down here before we get over there in the grass, just go ahead and look at his hands. What we're going to do is arrest. I'm Detective Steve Mian Township Police Department. We advise you to have the calling rights. Number one, you have the right to remain silent. Do you understand that? >> Yes, sir. >> Number two, anything you say can be used against you in the court of law. Do you understand that? >> Yes, sir. >> Number three, you have the right to talk to a lawyer and have him or her present with you while you're being questioned. Do you understand that? Yes, sir. Number four, if you cannot afford to hire a lawyer, no one will be appointed to represent you before any questioning if you wish. Do you understand that? >> Yes, sir. >> Number five, you can decide at any time to exercise these rights and not to answer any questions or make any statements. Do you understand that? >> Yes, sir. >> You understand it's your rights? >> Yes, sir. >> You want to talk to us? >> I have a lawyer. >> You have a lawyer? >> Yes, sir. My dad will, I'm sure, communicate that. Um, you also I accidentally brought a leaf into your vehicle. >> I will get that leaf out. >> Yes, sir. >> Okay. >> Yes, sir. >> All right. So, what's your attorney's name? >> Um, I I don't know. My dad did this all for me earlier. >> Okay. So, you have an attorney? >> Yes, sir. Okay. Thank you. What I do is I buckle you over here. >> Evelyn Cameer died on the evening of November 4th at Cincinnati Children's Hospital. 2 days later, officers arrested her father. Andrew Cameer was indicted on 10 felony counts, including aggravated murder, murder, felonious assault, and endangering children. Her twin sister, doctors found, had also been injured with a broken rib that had never been reported. In December, Danielle Rudy, was indicted, too, charged with complicity to murder and child endangering. In that hospital room, Andrew insisted Evelyn fell. He told detectives he never shook her. The evidence told investigators a different story. On July 31st, 2025, Andrew Camar pleaded guilty to involuntary manslaughter, felonious assault, and obstructing justice, not to murder. Prosecutor Mark Tulve said Cameroer violently shook his daughter. On September 16th, 2025, Claremont County common judge Kevin Miles sentenced him to 19 to 24/ genuine insight into the harm he caused. At the same hearing, Danielle Rudy, who pleaded guilty to two counts of endangering children, was sentenced to 5 to 6 and a half years. Evelyn Cameroer was 4 months old. Stay alert. 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