I could tell by her voice something was wrong and she said Jared's dad and I said I'm sorry what close but >> I've known him since he was a kid. I knew the girls that he dated when he was a teenager. I knew you know what I mean? Like I've known that family for probably Jared was >> Jared was the he was kind of quiet as a kid. Um he never had a lot of friends. Um the girls he dated in the church. Um two things that I remember always never dated a girl that wasn't loaded with money. >> On a February evening in 2022, a man steps out of his vehicle to move something blocking the road and is shot multiple times in front of his 2-year-old daughter. At first, it looks like a targeted killing. But as detectives examine his bitter divorce and the people closest to him, one question becomes impossible to ignore. Who wanted him dead? >> 20 years. >> Okay. Are are you do you go to the same church as him? You're the same word. Okay. >> So, tell me a little bit about Jared and his family from what you can remember. Anything standing out? >> We were never friends. I knew his mother. I was friendly. I'm one of those people that I'm just what you see is what you get. I'm real. If I don't like you, I won't be friends with you. But I will be kind. You know what I mean? Like I'll say good morning and keep on walking down the hall of the church, whatever. >> Of course. >> Um, so I knew his family from a distance. I did attend a baby shower or two that maybe his mom hosted at their home and never didn't end the relationship that >> everyone talked about what a jerk he was. Mhm. >> He was the guy that broke the girls hearts. He was, you know, he he he puts on, you know what I mean? He would he would be nice at first and then the real Jared would come out. >> Um when then I met Shana, I knew about Shana when he married her um because his mom was so excited because she was, you know, from this rich family and you know, their life was going to be so great and blah blah blah. And then she had twins and ended up having pulmonary hypertension. >> Mhm. >> And they had to move to Florida. So I met Shana about maybe eight and a half years ago. >> Okay. >> And I have twins. So and she actually was one of my teenage daughters teachers in the youth program. Okay. And so she and I got to be friends while she was still married to Jerry. >> This is Shana Gardner. She's about to sit down with detectives and what she says here could change how they see the entire case >> because number one I knew his family. Number two I felt sorry for her that she married him. Number three she taught my kid and we kind of had that common bond with the twin thing. >> So that's how she and I became friends. Okay. >> And then as time went on probably with you know within a year of them moving here like she and I became better and better friends. And now, you know, I probably talk to Shana five, six times a week, maybe every day. >> Okay. So, you say you guys are really good friends. >> We're really good friends. >> We're really good friends. I was the only person I was one of the few people who stood beside her when they got divorced. Um, when the divorce happened. Um, like I knew that she was going to tell him kind of a thing. I knew he was going to flip out um >> just because of the personality that I had always remembered or whatever. Um he went around and he accused her of having an affair to everyone. And the way it worked was at the very beginning the kids would be with her from, you know, for for two days and then they kept them at the home and then for 3 days she'd have them and then you it kind of went back and forth on a two three kind of thing. And the days that she did not have the children, she often times spent the night at my house and he was running around telling her, "Oh, she's off. She didn't come home last night. She's sleeping with it." And she was on my couch. She didn't sleep with anybody, right? >> Um, so it was not hard for me to stand by her because I knew where she was cuz she was with me most of the time. we kind of like adopted her and the kids and you know so that's how she and I became better friends than we were and why we are good friends today >> and and so you know you you're you're friends with Shana you kind of see what's going on with Jared and her you know what in your opinion like what was kind of the cause of their divorce >> the co well so he was very so like I used to go over the house and like he was very antisocial like he didn't if if you if I went over, you know, so I could walk. We both lived in Ponavidra. I could it was a long walk, but I could walk from my house to hers in about half an hour. So sometimes, you know, I go for a walk in the evening. I'd go over there, hang out, you know, maybe I'd walk back, maybe she'd drive me home, whatever. Um >> you I'd walk in and he would instantly go to his bedroom. >> Okay. >> Um anytime I was there during the day, he had zero engagement or involvement. He pretty much stayed in his bedroom. He was on [clears throat] his laptop. Um he never worked the entire time they were married. I always thought he was lazy. Um his he's very much like his father. I know that when they were going through the divorce, his mother tried to be my friend, >> which I found funny because you're just fishing. You just want me to give you something that will help him kind of a thing. You know what I mean? Like it was so obvious. Like we've never been friends in, you know, 16 years and now all of a sudden you want to be my friend. That's just kind of weird. Um, you know, it was like, "Oh, how's Shana?" You know, like, "You don't care." Do you know what I mean? Like, and so I was very surfaceful stuff. Oh, she's fine. You know what I mean? She's doing fine. >> What did you see that kind of happened since you were so close to it after their divorce? How was Shana? What was her demeanor? And And >> so Shana after the divor Shana was Shana struggled hard >> emotionally. Um, she struggled hard emot she had three jobs. Um, he continued to not work. [clears throat] Um, I think their divorce was final like in July, maybe was seven years ago, but I think it was July was the month that it was final. >> And she had three jobs. He he had a job. Actually, I take that back. He got a job once she filed for divorce. >> Gotcha. And then as soon as the divorce proceedings were going and child support came up, he emailed his boss because the lawyer was able to get HR records. Emmailed his boss and said he was no longer able to work because of his personal situation. However, he did continue to work and they paid him under the table because he was bitter that her family had money and he didn't think he should have pay child support when her family was rich. >> Gotcha. >> But they were his kids, not her family's kids. So, you know what I mean? Like that that whole, >> you know what I mean? You're a dad. That's your job. You know what I mean? You pay for the kids. Um, she worked three jobs. She was exhausted. Um, she put the kids in like a daycare. At first, none of this sounds connected to the murder itself. It sounds like ordinary relationship history, money, work, and who was carrying the weight inside the marriage. But as Kim keeps describing Jared, pattern starts to emerge. The conflict wasn't just about what he wanted. It was about how much control he seemed to have over the people around him. >> In November, she was so grateful because he emailed or texted her. He he refused to speak to her ever. Mhm. >> There was zero verbal communication between the two of them probably in the whole time that they were divorced. >> Yeah. >> Um >> he left this he was leaving the state. He was going to Utah. >> Said he'd taken a job or something. Um but really he was on the prowl for another girl. Um, and so he he was going to the deal was if she would sign a change in parenting agreement and she would agree to let him see the kids every other weekend, he was going to fly back and see them. But then it was he's going to FaceTime the kids every single day and you know he would tell him, "Oh, you know, dad's coming into town. I'm going to bring you so many presents." And then, you know, he didn't come. >> He would, "Oh, I'm busy at work." You know what I So it was like he would build the kids up and try to get them so excited to see him and then I think he ended up coming maybe like five or six times. >> Okay. >> Um her at turn so so during that time when he was gone life was much better other than the FaceTimes were just disruptive to the I mean they were three. Yeah. >> You know what I mean? So >> it's kind of young to be facetiming. >> Every day was just FaceTime's great. I think you need to see your kids, but every day was just much, you know, and and so anyway, so her attorney her attorney filed um something. We found out where he was working and I think his mom blurted it out in church one day and I was like, I found out where he works. [laughter] >> And so her attorney emailed and found out that he was out there and he was working and he was making like 90 grand a year. Mhm. >> And here she is working three jobs. He's paying for nothing. You know, she told him the kids were in preschool, you know, and he was like, "Oh, you know, I'm barely making anything. I just, you know, if I'm going to be able to afford to fly there, I'm not going to be able to afford >> to pay whatever." You know what I mean? >> So, like he sent zero dollars and he's out there living large. And come then come to find out he so she starts prying around. Her attorney starts prying around. They're going to file something for child support. He quit like that. Quit his job. Um quit his job and was going to move back to Florida and came back with a new girl in tow. Um and then life became hell again. >> Kim Jensen goes on to explain how life became more difficult when Jared moved back to Florida. But because they had filed this thing with the court that gave only gave him the right to see the kids every other weekend, >> he thought he was going to come back and instantly it would go back to >> mine for two days, yours for three, you know what I mean? And then you got that kind of a thing. And so it turned into this big kurfuffle of she was withholding the children. He was going to have her arrested for kidnapping. He wanted to see them when he wanted to see them. And she was like, >> "Sorry." >> Yeah. You know what I mean? >> Yeah. [laughter] >> You know, I mean, she was following what was currently filed with the court, you know, and I realize that has gotten spun in a different way all through the news, but I mean, that's what happened. That's the truth. >> No, I understand for um he thought he was going to come back and it was just going to go back to jail. Yeah, >> I'm back in town, you know what I mean? And I'm still not paying for anything. And you know what I mean? And I'm going to, you know, not that paying for anything had anything to do with seeing your kids, but >> the current thing filed with the court said you get them every other weekend. You know, you get them from like Saturday morning to Sunday night. That's what the thing said. Or maybe it was Friday, you know, I think it was Saturday morning because he would get in late on Friday when he did come. >> So, um, you know, but I mean there was never a custody battle. I mean, that was determined at the divorce. It was 50/50. You know, the only thing that ever changed with custody was they went they realized that it as the kids got older, I think by the time they were four, >> the two-day, three-day, it got the kids never knew even at school, am I going home with mom? Am I going home with dad? Like it got too hard on them doing too many switches too soon. And so they pra they they themselves decided to try week on week off >> right >> with a date night on Wednesday in the middle. >> Mhm. >> And they they put that in practice for a few months to just try it out and the kids were happier, they were happier. That midweek breakup gave, you know, the other parent to see them, you know what I mean? Um and then until but see but that was just between them and so he would try to hold her hostage over that. It was like okay well I have something coming up and if you don't agree to make this time share switch or this week switch the kids won't be available on date night. And so he always tried to use the kids to get what he wanted. Okay. From her >> like a leveraging tool kind of >> Yeah. Like he used them like ponds. >> Yeah. Yeah. And so I said, "Take him back to court and make it permanent. It's working. We got work with. If the judge signs it, then he can't hold date night hostage." >> And this is where the divorce becomes more complicated than a simple separation. Even after the marriage was ending, the financial connection between them hadn't disappeared. There were still obligations, money, and decisions that kept Jared tied to the situation. That matters because when a relationship ends, but the power struggle doesn't, the resentment can continue long after the marriage itself is over. >> Why do you think that is? Why do you think he was trying to control her and like had had all these rules about the FaceTime and all that? >> Because he's a narcissist. His mother is her. She'll tell you he's just like his father. He's very controlling. He's a narcissist. >> Mhm. >> They went to therapy. They went to a church therapist, which always makes me laugh because you go to a church therapist, you can get a Sunday school answer and they'll say, "Yeah, >> check. You pass." You know what I mean? Like, go to a real therapist. It's going to make you do work. You know what I mean? Like, I'm never a fan of church therapists, whatever that actually means. >> Um, >> but they went to one and and she saw it straight away. You know, >> he he's definitely a narcissist. He always had to be in control. He had to be in control of the story. I'm the victim. She cheated on me. No one else would leave me for any other reason because I'm so, you know what I mean? Like it's, you know, and I mean, I get it as his family. They ran with that. It's easier to say, "Oh, you know, my son's wife cheated on him." You know what I mean? Then, of course, >> you know, my son's a his wife left. You know what I mean? Like, what sounds better? You know what I mean? Like, I get it. >> I get it. Well, I think she met him at the gym. I think it was CrossFit, maybe. She met him there. And my thought was, you don't need to be with anybody. >> You need to go fix [snorts] what he broke. You don't need to date anybody. Let's figure out you. Let's learn how to just be happy with you >> and not be dependent on anyone else. Just, you know what I mean? That was always my advice. I didn't want her dating anyone. I certainly didn't want her marrying anyone. >> Yeah. Yeah. I said, you know, I mean, I didn't know him, per se. >> I mean, I met him. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> You know what I mean? He certainly is. He doesn't Jared might be an ass, but if you just saw him, you might even think he was a nice guy. >> Gotcha. >> You see Mario and he doesn't it's not same same. [laughter] >> Yeah. Yeah. >> You know what I mean? But then, you know, don't judge a book by its cover. You know what I mean? Like I've I've seen how much Mario has like he adored those kids. He filled voids >> that Jared was creating. >> You know what I mean? Like those kids wanted you to sit on the floor and build Legos and you know what I mean? They wanted that kind of dad. Um and Jared wasn't that guy. They wanted cuddles. >> Jared was always I'm so hot. He was so hot. He always had to sleep with a box fan. It was the weirdest thing. You know what I mean? Um and like >> Mario, you know, he's small. Like that was my that was my biggest thing. Sh. like you never marry a dude that's shorter than you. That's just you don't do that. You know what [laughter] I mean? She's like my sister said the same thing. You know what I mean? It was like you know WHAT I MEAN? SO I MEAN MY my you know should you should you not was not because I thought he was bad. It was >> it's just not broke all MY RULES. [laughter] >> BUT I WOULDN'T MARRY him so it didn't really matter what I thought. You know what I mean? >> Right. Did you find it odd that they got married so quick? >> I did. Um, but I understood why they got married so quick because even though I tried so hard to talk to her and give her strength about how he can't control you unless you let him, >> she always was in fear that, you know, if I live with him, if I then, you know, he'll try to take me to court and, you know what I mean, and say, you know, she's being a bad example for the kids and, you know what I mean? like >> she never wanted to give up more custody than she had and that [clears throat] she was entitled to. >> Gotcha. >> And there was always that fear. Part of it was Jared wanted them to hate Shana as much as he did. >> To me, I don't care who you are, and I've got siblings who are divorced and have kids and whatever. My number one rule is I'm gonna love you the best I can at my house and dad's gonna love you the best kind the way he can at his house >> and how I feel about your dad >> should never be related to you if you're the kid >> 100% agree >> that's my job is to protect you >> I'm just supposed to love you and Shana always did that he could it could have been the day from hell with emails back and forth and this that and the other and they would say something about him and her response response was always very simple. It was, "I'm sorry you made that that you feel that way." Or, you know, "I'm sorry that dad made you sad or she never said, you know, it was never, yeah, I understand." You know what I mean? Like, she never engaged in that ever. [clears throat] >> Whereas the kids themselves, cuz I spent a lot of time with the kids. >> Um, I love the kids. Um, and they would, you know, would say, "I get in trouble if I say anything about my mom at my dad's house. My dad hates my mom. That makes me very sad." Trying to think how to word this. [sighs] Did Mario's um fondness for women bother Shana at all, you think? Or >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. >> I mean, cuz I mean, and he had some people living there and some other things and >> Yeah. But it wasn't like they were women that he was with. He like just had he just has friends like he has all these friends. um from like his army days or you know what I mean like I don't know and she was just like oh you know this one this one's you know this one is a hairdresser and and you know and I told her she could stay here and Shannon was like okay and then it was well you know she's going to pay part of the rent or part of the mortgage or whatever you know what I mean and then then you know two weeks later her boyfriend is living there too and then and I told J I'm this is your house, >> you know what I mean? I'm like, >> you know, and so that didn't last very long at all. Um, it was just more annoying. He he kind of he's married, but >> he still kind of lives like a single guy. You know what I mean? Like he never understood what marriage meant. Like to me, you know, if I'm going to move someone in the house and I do that without my husband, we're going to have an issue. Now, it's 50 minutes into this chat before detectives even bring up Jared's murder, but they do get there. >> So, what did you what did you think when you first heard about Jared, you know, getting killed? >> Well, Shana called me on Thursday night. >> But the most important detail here is what happens when the children become part of that conflict. Kim isn't describing a disagreement between two adults anymore. she says, describing a situation where access schedules and the children themselves could become leverage. And once that happens, every custody decision carries another question with it. Who is actually making the decision and who is being forced to live with it? >> Thursday morning after it happened. And I could tell by her voice something was wrong. And she said, "Jared's dead." And I said, "I'm sorry, what did you just say?" And she said, "Did you hear about that shooting last night in Jack's Beach?" And I said, "No." And she said, she said, "It was him. It was him." And I said, "What?" You know, like I just I couldn't process it. You know what I mean? Like I couldn't it was it was I was shocked. You know what I mean? like and she just and and then then she told me that what had happened and that Kirsten was coming over and they were going to tell the kids together and um I didn't have the time to put in to the conversation because I was it was like 7:00 in the morning and I was leaving for the airport to go bury my mother-in-law and So like, [laughter] you know what I mean? >> She, you know, so I I just and I was like, and then I was torn between, you know what I mean? It's like I had to go do that, >> but I knew she probably need, you know what I mean? So it's like, >> so, you know, and then as people started finding out, they were texting me and and I just I happened to have Wi-Fi on the plane, whatever flight we were on. I don't remember American or Delta, one of them. But >> and so it was like, "Oh my gosh, have you heard?" You know what I mean? And I was like, "Yeah." And and you know what I mean? And they're just like, "Oh my gosh, that's the craziest thing." And you know what I mean? And >> so I mean it was just more of a shock than anything, >> you know what I mean? Like it was I I can remember saying, "I'm sorry. What? I must have said it three times." Like are you kidding me? Right. Like you know what I mean? Like I just thought it was like like I was in like Bizarro World or something. It was like I just couldn't you know I mean and then you know of course the days just started unfolding and you know what I mean and then you know so then I started following the story from the plane and you know what I mean that kind of a thing and it was just it was just so it was just so hard to wrap my head around >> right >> that it that it happened to him. Mhm. So, just knowing knowing Jared, knowing Shana, knowing the whole family, knowing, you know, you probably have a better insight into their marriage and everything, just um into Jared really. You know, you saw his personality, whatever. I'm not trying to I don't lead you, but in your in your brain, in your conscience, your soul, what what do you think happened to him? >> Well, it was always about money with him. >> Always. Um, and he was into he was a Freemason, he and his dad. And to me, that's just some shady crap. >> Mhm. >> I'm sorry if you know what I mean. Like that's some shady crap. And >> I figured it was a money thing. You know what I mean? That was my first gut was who'd you piss off? >> You know what I mean? Who' you Who did your money? You know what I mean? Some deal went bad was what my first thought was. Whether or not it was the Freemason thing, I don't know. You know what I mean? But I do know he was into that. And And when I say into it, because like I know a lot of people who are members of that. >> Mhm. >> I've done a I've done a lot of research on that. >> Um >> I think it's weird. >> I think it's a one of those secret society things. You're not allowed to tell your wife anything. You know what I mean? Anything where you are asked to keep secrets from the one person that you're supposed to be able to tell everything to >> is sketchy to me. >> Yeah. >> You know, but because I know of his love for money and that that's what drove him, my head automatically went I figured the two as the story unfolded, I figured there was two scenarios. either it was a business deal gone bad >> or maybe some like random gang initiation or you know what I mean like some weird thing like anyone who knows the real Shannon not the story that you've been spun off by the bride against that you know she's a [ __ ] and she'll sleep with anybody you know what I mean like if you know Shana her kids that's all she ever wanted was kids >> in fact if you ask her if she regrets burying Jared she'll tell you no because she wouldn't have her Mhm. >> You know, I mean, and for all the things he did to her, you know what I mean? That's not your typical answer for someone who's spinning out about, you know what I mean? >> Yeah. >> How can I get rid of him? Do you know what I mean? Like, it was always every decision she made through her marriage and her divorce was always, "How will this affect my kids?" That was always her first question. >> So, I mean, you said you so you said all you've seen all the comments. You see what the people are saying. No, totally un impossible or >> that Shana had anything to do with this >> Shana or Mario? >> I don't see it. I spent a lot of time, >> you know what I mean? I've been with Shana's neck on Shana's side for eight and a half years. There's nothing that happened in the marriage or the divorce that I have not been privy to. And you know, Mario, >> I cuz there was no love loss between Mario and and Jared. He said he said on the couch and said something. >> Oh, no. He did. He hated him. >> He hated what he did to him >> or to her. He hated how he treated the kids. You know what I mean? Cuz the story you're seeing in the news is not what the story. >> The detective is now trying to understand something deeper than what Jared did. He wants to know why control seemed to matter so much. Kim's answer is her own interpretation, but it gives investigators another angle to consider. Someone who wants control over a situation may also want control over how that situation is understood. And that distinction becomes important when the story surrounding Jared's death starts changing. >> The story that the kids were reporting, >> of course. Of course. However, I also, and I always tell Shana this, when you take your notes from little children who are trying to please you at your house and him at his house, >> you know, there's no telling what they were saying over there either. >> Of course, >> you know what I mean? Again, with the survival skills, >> how you got a set of survival skills per house, depending on where you are is what you say and what you don't say. And you know that you learn that at a very young age. You you learn that. Mario. Mario likes his I mean, for all intents and purposes, I mean, he's got a cushy life. You know what I mean? >> Mhm. >> Mario is selfish. I don't think he would sacrifice that for something like this. >> Yeah. >> Do I think he cried tears when he found out? >> No. I didn't ask, but >> I didn't. He said no. [laughter] The detectives suspect that Shana and Kim Jensen, they could be coordinating their stories. >> Did she So, did she did she tell you before she was coming in here to talk to us? >> No. >> Did she call you? So, she didn't call you and talk to you before she came in and talk to us? >> I don't think so. But I don't I don't remember. >> Yeah, I got you. >> I don't remember. >> Here I am telling you, I'm the memory bank and I don't remember. But I really I mean, you know what I mean? Like, I don't even remember what day it was or anything. It was uh the 28th was the day before and March 1st was the day she came and talked to us. >> I may She may have told me that she was coming. >> Mhm. >> She may have told me that she was coming. In fact, I I think she did tell me that she was coming and that they were coming in together. >> So, >> but she didn't know if they were going to if they were you guys were going to talk to them together or separate them. This is Kim Jensen, Shannana Gardner's close friend. Nine months after her first interview, detectives sit down with her again, and this time their questions are much closer to her. >> You know what I mean? Like, it's quick to get on a plane. I think it's an hour and a half plane ride or whatever. >> Well, that's I mean, that's good. That's good then. I mean, having family close, I know it's it's kind of tough being, >> you know, kind of separated from your family. >> Mhm. Um, so one of the things that we were looking at was, um, I know it was reported in the media and we've talked to the family about it a little bit and I don't know if you saw it or anything, but it was, um, Jared had some premonitions >> about, I guess, danger or whatever. Um, >> did you hear anything about that prior to or >> Yeah, that came from his mom. >> That came from his mom. His mom said, she didn't say he had premonition about danger. >> She said he he had a premonition that he wasn't going to live much longer. >> Mhm. >> Didn't say that he you know he that was it. He and that with that he paid off the house, the cars, like got everything in order and she became the stay-at-home mom. Kirsten >> because originally like I think I think she ended her job in December >> where I mean they both work from home but I mean he only barely started working at Microsoft like I want to say in like August maybe of last year like he'd only been there like less than six months. >> Yeah. So, and then that but I mean that was what she said that he just she said she called it a spiritual prompting is what she called it. >> Did she go into any detail about it or anything? >> No, because she wasn't I mean I just kind of heard that. You know what I mean? Um, she didn't she didn't I mean, I know now it's being used in the media that, >> you know, he feared for his life, but I don't know. I don't know that I'd buy that. That just sounds like a convenient way to continue to, >> you know, >> keep pushing the gas. >> Pushing the gas against Shana. >> Well, you know, the media the media is their own monster. >> Oh, they are. I mean, you see it just in, you know what I mean? So, you think he was more like his father than his mother or >> Oh, 100%. His mother would tell you they're exactly the same. >> Oh, yeah. >> Oh, yeah. Very controlling. Like, like I know when they got divorced, Joanne would always come to me and ask me, "How's Shannah? How's Shana? How's Shana?" And I'm like, you know, you can just text her. >> Yeah. >> She will respond to you. And she's like, "I'm not allowed." >> Cuz Jerry Jared wouldn't let her. >> It's not allowed. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, >> she's like, "He's he's" and I'm like I'm like, "What do you mean you're not allowed?" You know what I mean? And she's like, "Oh, well, you know, you know how Jared is. You know, he's very controlling." And you know, and she's like, "He's just like his father." I mean, that's what she said. Those are her words, not mine. I mean, I I thought that, but I mean, it's interesting to hear her that she recognizes that. >> I mean, I guess it makes sense. So, you're going to be like >> You're going to be like one or the other. Yeah. And she's like she's like the scatterbrained, you know what I mean? Like, she's the family joke and it's sad. Like they make fun of her to her face that she's Oh, yeah. >> What do they say? >> Well, cuz I So she's just she just makes she's she's like she's like a walking blunder. Like >> like one time Jared wanted to have a family FaceTime call and they were going to announce >> I want to say Kristen's pregnancy >> and Joanne accidentally went Facebook live. >> So it went on Facebook. And everyone everyone it pops up, you know, oh, you're a contact. And everyone's just like watching this. And then when they realized what she had done, they're like, "Mom, you know what I mean? Like she's she's just like the joke. [laughter] >> She's got a lot of technological issues, you know. >> That would be uh quite awkward. >> Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, she's got lots of them. Like I mean, it cost her a job one time like Yeah. She used to she used to be a counselor for the church. M >> and when when Shannon and Jared were married and you know there's HIPPA >> Yeah. >> and she was doing a Zoom session with a child an adolescent >> Mhm. >> who had come out. >> Okay. >> To her. >> Yeah. >> And she thought she had ended the session. >> Oh no. >> And Gaylord made some comment like, "Are you done with that [ __ ] So you can come to bed." Yeah. >> And the kid like wanted to sue the church and she was never allowed to be, you know what I mean? Like it was big. Like there was litigation and Shana paid for it all. Like >> it was bad. So I mean she just makes big mistakes. >> Yeah. That's uh >> especially technological mistakes and she gets harassed horribly for it. >> Well, you know I know like my parents aren't great with technology. They just stay away from it. >> She should just pick up the good old phone. >> Yeah. Sometimes that's the best way. Well, even now, um, I don't want I got a few more questions. I could get off top of too bad, but um, what what is your do you have any theories on why Mario's tenant would be involved in this with Jared at all? >> Seems weird. >> I mean, all I know is what I saw on the press conference, which >> was not that informative. I really didn't know how involved. You know what I Like I don't even know what the is the connection. I don't even know what the connection is. >> Hello. >> This is my partner Mick. Um I don't think you've met him before. >> I know. >> I was I'm sorry I'm late. >> No worries. I was early [laughter] real quick then. Just the traffic one just with the rain and my ball tires. That's just not a good >> combination at all. So again, >> change those. You get a ticket for that, can't you? >> I think so. I'm more likely to go off the road. That's what I'm more [laughter] concerned about. you know, speaking for that, too. >> So, I apologize for being late. >> No, no, no worries. >> We were I was just talking to her about um some theories as to why Mario didn't want to be involved with Jared. >> By this point, Kim isn't simply describing Jared's past anymore. She's actively challenging the version of events investigators are trying to piece together, and that makes the next questions much more important. >> Okay. >> And what was it that you said? I said all I know about this guy is that what I saw in the press conference. So >> I don't really have any theories. The only thing I can tell you is that people made the comment >> people one of once once Shana's sister said once Jared was always involved in something shady because he always wanted that get rich quick. He always wanted it was money. Everything with Jared has from from what I know, everything was always about money. >> Mhm. >> You know, you're getting divorced, you want you're you know, you got a prenup. It's it's not a secret what you're going to get. But he wouldn't leave the house. Stayed there through the whole divorce. >> Mhm. >> Until he got his check and then he moved out 24 hours later. Like it everything was about money with him. Everything, you know. Oh, you want school designation? Oh, well then teleports I don't have to pay child support. Mhm. >> Everything was money with him and and he had the mindset that I shouldn't have to pay you anything because your family is wealthy. >> Shannon was not wealthy. That's what people That's what that's what frustrates me with the media is that the story like like her trust was drained when they bought that house in Ponidra. >> Mhm. >> There was no more trust. It was gone. >> Mhm. >> You know, but people don't know that. They think that she's just got like this endless supply coming in, you know, and it wasn't true. >> I gota uh I guess with all that being said, I mean, by all rights, this guy had no money, so Oh, yeah. Why would Jared, you know what I mean? Like that's kind of weird to me. >> Um really at the end of the day, I'm just trying to, you know, connect all the dots and >> um you know, there there's really no reason for Tenon to have any kind of dealings with Jared. And so that's what's kind of throwing everybody off a little bit, I think. You know what I mean? >> Well, my assumption was that you guys probably had a list of everyone that had the truck that may or may not be involved. I never ever heard if it was a confirmed or all I've seen is Kirstson stuff. Find the truck. Find the truck. Find the truck. >> I just assumed when he got popped for whatever he got popped for, what was it? Speeding and pot or something. Mhm. >> when he got arrested in August or whatever that >> he was on the list and then you find out he's Mario's tenant and >> Mhm. >> I figured those were how dots were connected? >> I really don't have any theories about Jared and this this black guy. Like I I have no idea. >> Mhm. Has anybody been talking about it or anything? Has there been any kind of rumor mill or anything like that involving it? The only rumor mill that I've heard is this guy doesn't even look like he knows what the heck's going on. >> Who who all saying that? Just out of curiosity. I mean, it doesn't really matter, but >> Oh, just like you girls at church are like, you know, just >> so they don't they they they're skeptical that he has anything? >> They're skeptical that he has anything to do with it. >> Well, I mean >> I mean, maybe he does. I don't know. I'm sure you know more than I do. [laughter] But I'm just saying from from the outside looking in, he looks very confused about the whole thing. >> Well, I guess if they're skeptical, what's why and what what alternative theory would they have? Just if we're just going to >> rabbit holes, you know, like >> in the I mean, well, the guy's never done anything violent from what you know what I mean. I mean, his his his rap sheet, I guess, or whatever's been published. I mean, it doesn't look like he's ever done anything violent. >> Mhm. >> From my logical mind, if you're going to pick someone to help you do something, that wouldn't be my first choice. I'm just saying. You know what I mean? He, you know, he doesn't have this air of confidence like, oh, you know, >> I'll be your partner in crime, whoever his crime was with. >> That's an interesting choice of words. If you're going to pick somebody, do you think that somebody picks somebody or do you think this is >> Oh, no. I'm just like, >> you know, >> you know, just if I'm analyzing the, you know what I mean? Like if if this actually was, >> you know, a hit on him. >> I don't know. I just think >> he'd pick somebody better than >> there would just be I a little more thought would have gone into [laughter] it. Not that I think like like that because I've never put a hit out on anybody. [laughter] I'm not going to say. I'm sure. I'm sure. I'm the girl that made curfew [laughter] every time. >> What? Um, has has Shannon mentioned Henry and his connection at all? >> Mm-m. >> No. >> No. >> Is she just as conf because he's not there? >> Well, you haven't been keeping up with him, I guess, then. Huh? >> I don't care about him. >> Why is that? I didn't >> I just noticed like there there was a tone like I didn't care about him. Like I I just I picked up on it and so just indulge me >> when he was good to Shana. He was really really good to Shana and you know and then there other times you know he'd make her cry and I just really >> Yeah. You know >> what do you do to make her cry? He just gets in moods, you know, and and he he had a couple bouts of infidelity. Um, and so, you know, >> who are we talking about? Maria. >> Maria. >> Okay. >> So, you know, and then >> how does she react to that? >> She takes it personal like you know, what am I doing wrong that you know what I mean? Kind of a thing. >> So, but I mean I was her best friend, her sounding board, you know what I mean? Like, >> so you know, but I'm not the one that says, "Oh, you need to leave your husband." You know what I mean? It's like, >> you know what your threshold is. What you can take might be more than what I can take. And you know what I mean? Like I've got lots of friends that have gone through divorce. And >> I [clears throat] always say, >> you'll know what you need to do. >> Yeah. Is that what pushed is the infidelity what pushed them to divorce or split up? I know they told us I think in April that they were getting a divorce. >> Yeah. But that was just that they were getting divorced before even before Jared was killed. M how how how far before do you know >> it was on and off of should we give this you know they would put like okay six more months and we'll see how it goes or you know what I mean like I mean and she was going to therapy and she's doing all >> the problem for Kim is that Henry doesn't fit the picture she has built in her head but when she starts explaining who would make sense for a job like this her own wording gives the detective something >> she's doing all the work and he just he never wanted to be married. >> So why'd they get married? >> Because of the church and because [clears throat] she was afraid that if she lived with him that Jared would find some way in the court to consider her an unfit mother. You know, she's just a [ __ ] shacked up with, you know what I mean, this guy. And she always had this fear that he would anything she didn't do that fell in line with the church that he would find a way to spin it against her. And >> if she was separated from the church, why does what did she care what the church thought? >> She didn't care what the church thought. She cared what because he to he took, you know, because she's left the church like automatically that gave him cart blanch to diss her >> within the church community >> within the church community. And and he did. >> And like I said, it you were either team Sharon or team Jared. You were one or the other. >> Mhm. So you so you think that Mario and her got and ultimately got married because it made things easier for her. >> I mean, you said they never wanted to be married. So I guess I'm just trying to figure out. >> And she did. >> Yes. But him, he didn't. >> She wanted to create something stable for those kids. >> And he was for all intents and purposes. If there's one good thing that I have can never, you know, >> he tried to be everything for those kids, >> you know what I mean? He was on the floor playing Legos. Like he was the hands-on in the beginning. He was the hands-on, you know, and then as they got older, >> you know, it he wasn't as I mean he but he did like he took them they would build things, they would build things, they would put things together. Like >> very tinker. He loves to he loves to build. If you let him use a tool, you know what I mean? You're the hero because he loves tools. I mean, he's like all boy. >> Yeah. >> And and he would go out there and do those kinds of things, you know, in the garage and, you know, teach him this and teach him that and and that was a that was a big deal. >> You know, >> what So ultimately, what what is your impression? What was what do you think is the reason why Mario ultimately married Chan? Cuz it was quick, right? Like 3 months. >> Oh my god. Yeah. It was like >> Oh, yeah. That seemed like a pretty quick decision for someone who didn't want to get married. >> Well, when I don't think he I don't think he wanted to marry anybody, you know what I mean? Like commitment, I think, is a hard thing for him. >> Yeah. >> But then, so why go through with it on his part? >> Why do it? >> Yeah. Like what's >> I mean, >> you got you got two bouts of infidelity, so it wasn't like he was, you know, wanting to be with just one person. I mean, everyone has their own arrangements. I understand that. Like you set your own thresholds for divorce and what you can deal with, but like what's his what's the reward for him? Why it takes two, you know, >> right? >> She really wanted it. And I do think that he deeply cared for the children. >> You know what I mean? Whether or not um whether or not I don't know. I I think I don't know because it's [clears throat] hard to understand Mario. You know what I mean? Mario beats to his own drum. Like he's everything's shock value with him, you know what I mean? Like, you know, on Easter he would post some of the stupidest crap, you know what I mean? Just just to get rides out of people. He's like that guy, you know what I mean? Like he's the guy that walks room and just says something just to see the reaction. You know what I mean? Yeah. >> I mean, there were benefits for him, you know what I mean? Like >> her family is a good family, you know what I mean? Like >> I mean, are we just call what is like financial benefits or I don't know. I mean, I I never asked him why he married her, you know what I mean? Like, anything I would say is just speculation. I mean, I really, you know, although I have I have told her, you know, she's just an open book. She's pretty transparent, you know what I mean? To her demise. >> Yeah. >> You know, I'm like, you should never lead you. You know what I mean? Like, never lead with with who you come from, you know what I mean? Like, how about I've got four sisters and great parents. >> You know what I mean? LIKE, DON'T TELL THEM WHAT YOUR PARENTS DO. [laughter] You know what I mean? Like because when you do that, you never know. And I don't mean any disrespect, but you never know if the man is there for you or what your family has to offer. You know what I mean? Like >> again, the financial side, the money, right? >> I mean, could be, >> you know what I mean? Although he never he never acted like he cared, >> okay, >> about money. >> Mhm. >> You know what I mean? Whereas I can tell you that Jared >> Ryan was a bad idea. >> Yeah. >> You see the train going to come out the tracks. [laughter] >> WELL, THAT'S LIKE WHEN THEY VERY first got divorced. You know what I I'm like, "You are giving him a [clears throat] gift on a silver platter." You know what I mean? You're You got your sleeve. You got your hair chopped off. You know what I mean? It's like everything he was saying about her that wasn't true looked like it was true. >> Talking about from when she got divorced from Jared. >> Uhhuh. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, like, and she But I mean, her thing was, "I've left the church. I'm doing whatever the hell I want. I don't care." >> And that's great. Do whatever you want. But >> optics. >> Yeah. Well, I mean, [laughter] >> you know what I mean? >> Right. Right. Right. >> So, >> everything, you know, everything in moderation, I suppose, and just, you know, >> you know, but I mean, she got it out of her system and like I said, everything was in a good place. >> You know what I mean? There was no none of this. There was everything was in a good place with >> when with Shana and I mean, >> they were never going to be friends. This was going to be those ones where, you know, >> we are just tumultuous when we have to be around each other. >> And it was more so on his part. >> This is Jared and Jared and her. I wasn't sure if we were talking. >> Mario, no. Mario, like I said, Mario beats to a different drum. Like, Mario could walk away from somebody and never look back. My brother's the same way. >> Yeah. >> Like, you know what I mean? Like, we're still all friends with his ex-wife and I mean, he like and and I asked him one time, "Does that bother you?" And he was like, "Oh, I don't have to mess with I don't care. You know what I mean? Like, you know, you can just >> Yeah, I I get that. I was the same way growing up, man. If it went, it went. I want to talk to you again. It's nothing personal. Just >> Yeah. I mean, that's just how some people roll, I guess. >> So, >> I'm sorry I interrupted you, but you were saying that Jared and Sha were kind of like in a not good place, but I guess aesthetic place or what? Tell me about go along with that. I interrupted you and I was rude. Sorry. Well, I'm saying they weren't fighting over anything like like and but I mean you Jared was always throwing the match, you know what I mean? Like so the big thing >> at that time I think it started maybe around November or December. Um be baptized. >> Mhm. This last November, December. >> Yes. Around there. And so like I mean he fully expected Shana to say no. >> And you got to have you know what I mean? one's in, one's out. Like, and Shana was like, >> "If that's what she wants," you know what I mean? Like, Shannon was all about whatever is best for the kids. That was that's always been probably the one thing that I've admired the most about her since I met her, you know, because I mean, they went through hell or she went through hell when >> born, you know what I mean? Like with the whole like she just and like once she became a mom, it was like this is my life. >> Yeah. Switch flipped. >> Yeah. like nothing else. Like she could I can honestly say like she never said a bad word about Jared ever in front of the kids ever. Never. She wouldn't do it. You know, he would say, >> "My dad hates you." And she was like, "I'm I'm that's sad. >> That sad." >> You know what I mean? Like those were her kinds of responses. >> Yes. >> You know, and it wasn't even like I was hearing it third person. Like I've been there. You know what I mean? And he would say, you know, do do you know how much my dad hates my mom? Mhm. >> And I'm like, you know, buddy, I'm like, maybe one day, you know, maybe one day he won't feel that way, you know? I mean, those are the kind of that's just how And she just she always believed that it never did the kid any good to know that the other parent hated them. >> Yeah. Going back to the baptism, you said that Shana supported it. >> In her heart, she really wished that she would wait till she was older, but she wasn't going to tell her no. And so, she said, you know, she said, "That's fine." She said, "The only thing I ask is that she take the lessons from the missionaries so that I know that she understands the commitment that she's made." >> For most of the interview, Kim has been explaining why the people around Shana don't make sense as suspects. Now, the detective turns that logic back toward her and asks the question she has >> the commitment that she's making because Shana asked her a bunch of questions. >> I mean, because I mean, Shannon grew up in the church. It's not like she just cuz she doesn't go doesn't mean she doesn't know. >> You know what I She's coming from a place of >> She's got a lifong. >> So when you say missionaries, you mean like the people that are out doing the >> proiting trying to, you know, spread the gospel. >> Who normally teaches it? >> Missionaries. That is who teaches it. >> Okay. I I was confused by the way you said that. It sounded like maybe somebody else teaches it and then >> Well, I mean, typically as parents in the church, I mean, you're teaching this in your home as well. Um, not all kids go through missionary lessons. >> Okay. They I mean unless the parents want them to. But if you're doing your what you're supposed to be doing, you know what I mean? Then your kids know all the answers and when they you know when they go see Scott Curry before they were to get baptized and he would say, you know, >> why do you want to be a member of the church or you know I mean he would ask them to make sure that they had the right answers and not just well my mom said I'm I'm I'm eight. I should get baptized. You know what I mean? Like it's one of those kind of things. >> So but I mean Shana had bought her the dress >> for the baptism like the whole shebang. Um, and so I mean he thought that was going to be a fight and I think he was taken aback when she didn't fight him on it. >> Yeah. Was there any um was there any arguments or that's probably a bad word, but was there any strife over where she would take the lessons, whether it be here in Jack Beach or St. John's County or anything like that? >> No. Um, on Shana's weeks, she set it up with the ones here. And on his weeks, he set it up on with the ones there. After he found out that Shana was doing it here, he set it up there >> with Bishop Curry. >> I think they were at >> Okay. >> Scott's house. Yeah, they were at his house. Um, >> I hope you don't think I'm being disrespectful when I call him Scott because I knew him before he bishop. Like, [laughter] >> so I'll be honest, from the beginning of this thing, I've he has been referred to me as Bishop Curry. So, it's just it's in my head, you know what I mean? So, I can't I can't break it. >> Well, he's [laughter] my friend first, so that's why I call him Scott. >> I always bounce back and forth between like I'll refer to Jason as Jason sometimes and it's Lamont and then whoever that third person I'm talking to, it's like how many people are involved in this, you [laughter] know? It's just >> Yeah. But anyway, it just occurred to me that you keep calling him that and I'm just like [laughter] >> that's just how that's how he was introduced to me. That's how he he came up. Right. Yeah. >> Um I think the only person that maybe didn't is his wife Valerie. I think she's the only one that didn't Bishop. Yeah. Which that'd be kind of weird, right? >> That would be weird. [laughter] >> But >> yeah. >> Um so y'all y'all are y'all are pretty good friends with with Valerie and Scott. >> Well, we've known them a long time. You know what I mean? I might see them every week. You know what I mean? >> How um how are they doing with all this? cuz I know they were I think from what Shana told me they were fairly good friends. They would go over their house. >> Well, they lived really close. >> They're only like half a mile apart maybe. [clears throat] >> How are they dealing with all the the news of the arrest last week? And >> are they getting any kind of, you know, >> I don't think I don't think per you know what I mean? Like from a church perspective, they're not I don't think they're getting anything. M >> um >> it was just more of a of a blow like we just wanted it to be some random person that had nothing to do with nothing. You know what I mean? Cuz like cuz you knew the second that you know it got put out that it was a tenant. Everything goes like this again and then you have to listen to all the haters and you know what I mean that have already decided this from day one and you know what I mean? So it's just it was just more of a of a let down. Mhm. >> Not that you if he's actually the guy then great. You know what I mean? But >> the fact that there's any connection, you know what I mean? Like that was just kind of like a gut punch. >> Made it made it tough, >> right? I mean, and not that my opinion of anything changes, >> but just I'm sad for her and the kids that this is going to continue. >> I mean, optics are a big thing. and whether or not, you know, whether or not whatever when it all shakes out, whatever it is, it's still I think optics are tough to get away from. And I know like specifically Valerie and Scott, you know, being the head of that church and and friends with Shannon, I was I was curious if it was causing any kind of >> They are the collateral damage and most things. >> How are they doing? Just as a side note, just >> they're doing okay. They're doing okay. I told I told him they they have their moments, but they're in counseling and >> you know what I mean? They're they're doing she's doing all the right things for them. >> Good. Good. >> So, you know, >> cannot be easy. >> No, not at all. [snorts] [cough] Uh just like you said something like the typical, you know, Shana and uh Jared Jared was expecting an argument about the baptism and everything like that and you wouldn't wait for more uh get baptized later. What's the typical age for a baptism? typical age is eight. >> Um, both parents have to agree. He never even asked like at 8 the topic cuz we were waiting. >> Never came up. >> Never came up. And then but see, but in typical Jared fashion, he everything with him is manipulation. And so her little Sunday school teacher, it's called primary. Her little primary teacher was like, "This is what telling Shana telling me." >> Mhm. >> Do you know you're the only one in class that's not baptized? She was 10. >> Oh, really? >> And so Shana assumed that, and this is like I said, just our assumption, put pressure on the kid from the teacher, not the dad. >> And then we can ignite this thing and then see if, you know, [snorts] we can get mom to agree or whatever. So, but yeah, for two years he said nothing, >> which was odd to me. >> Well, I was about to say that sounds strange to me because um from some of the ways that you've described him and some other people described it, it seems like you'd have no bones about creating that drama. >> Like we just kept waiting. Like the kids turned eight and it was like she was like, "You know what's coming next?" And I'm like, "Oh, I know what's coming next." You know what I mean? But like and it was like >> then it was like they turned nine and it was like, "Why hasn't this come next?" Like what is what is the deal here? Why isn't why isn't he pushing this? Why isn't he asking? Why isn't he telling? More telling than asking. But yeah, that was a big stumper like why when they turned eight that that wasn't >> Yeah. >> a thing. >> When was she set to be baptized? >> There was no set. They were originally talking about doing it in the summer. >> Okay. >> Um of last year. >> Okay. >> They were going to do it in the summer of last year. And of course, it wasn't going to be local. >> Mhm. He was going to have them do it at Adam's wife, Carly, at her parents' property in Pennsylvania, I think, because several like I think all of Carlen Adams kids may have gotten baptized there or something like it had some significance to their family, but >> I thought they lived in Utah. >> They do, but her parents live in >> Oh, Pennsylvania. Oh, okay. So they were going to So apparently it was going to be there and something about doing it on her birthday and Shannon was like, "Well, if you're going to do it in Pennsylvania, the water's still going to be pretty it was going to be outside." She was like, "It's going to be pretty cold. You know what I mean? You might need to wait till the summer." And then she was like, "Yeah, well my dad said that you can't come." >> I bet that was uh >> How will that go over yet? >> She's like, "Do you want me there?" >> Well, yeah. And she's like, "Well, you know, I mean, we can talk to your dad and, you know, I can stand in the back and then leave straight away. I don't have to stay for the little, you know, lunchon or party or whatever afterwards." And and but they never got that far. It was just this was, you know what I mean? Like he never told her what they were thinking ever. >> Mhm. >> I think that's the first time we heard about the baptism and all being in Pennsylvania. >> Well, and maybe it wasn't going to be. Mhm. >> I just it wouldn't shock me that he didn't want it here because he never wanted Shana. >> Yeah. >> You know, like a little talk in primary and like >> he lost his mind because Shannon and Mario showed up to church. >> Mhm. >> To hear the talk. Like >> he >> What did he do? >> You he just that jaw, >> you know what I mean? Like Well, but but >> I can't explain it to you. He could not be in the same room as Shana >> comfortably. When there was teacher conferences, they had to be separate two different times. Doctor's appointments. >> Kim keeps coming back to the same question. What would Mario actually gain, but detectives aren't trying to prove a motive from one answer? They were testing whether the connections around Henry can survive scrutiny. >> One was there, the other was on FaceTime. If he was on FaceTime, it was audio only because he didn't want Shannana to be able to see inside his house or his children. >> That's weird. >> First time she ever saw his kids was when they went and over to the house like the week he was killed. >> Yeah. Brought the cookies. >> Brought the treats or whatever. Yeah. It was just weird. >> Was there do you uh And we may have asked this the first time, but since you brought it up, it kind of spurred in my head. Was there other than him being angry, was there did you hear of any other issues or anything about that day when she read the primary and Abby read, was there any other issues between the two of them that day? >> Oh, no. There was no there was no communication. >> You just he doesn't he he wasn't able to hide his anger. Well, >> um and >> I I think he told the kids that he was angry that she was there. >> Yeah. like like that's my space and you just invaded my space kind of a thing, you know. >> So, they didn't know they were going to be there. They just showed up. >> I don't remember if she told him or not. >> Was a long time ago. >> It was a long time. >> Yeah. It's >> I don't remember. >> I feel like I feel bad sometimes I'm asking people about things that I mean, it's been over a year, you know? It's just like >> Yeah. >> I know that was a really long time ago. >> Yeah. I I don't know it. She may or may not have. >> Okay. >> You know what I mean? >> Yeah. I mean, it's not important. I was just curious. >> Yeah. >> Is she still on track to get baptized this summer? >> Um, she said she wanted to wait. >> Okay. >> Um, and she I know that she goes to when grandma and grandpa are in town, she goes to church with them. The church is just right up the street from where Shana lives. And Shana's like, you know, if you want to go, I'll take you. >> You know what I mean? Like Shana, like I said, Shana is she [clears throat] is 100% supportive of anything good for the kids. >> And I don't know if they've ever gone without grandma and grandpa there. Um if they have, I don't remember her telling me that and I feel like she would have. >> Um but with the gymnastics, some of that stuff is like weekends and so church is out of the equation when you're at a gymnastics meet or you know what I mean, whatever. >> So >> sports make things hectic. >> Yeah. Yeah. And so, but I do know I do know like we were on we were on FaceTime once since they moved and I think she asked me some church question. I can't remember what it was and I think she said she wanted to wait. We were talking about it and she said she was going to wait because she wanted to learn some more stuff >> about the church. >> Well, that's I mean that's a very mature statement. Well, that's always been Shana's thing with the baptism is if you get baptized, that means whether you're at dad's house or my house, >> we're going to church. >> Like, you made this commitment and we're going to do that. And she was like, you know, but you don't like to go to church. And Shannon was like, but I like to do things that >> are for you. Yeah. >> You know what I mean? And I mean, she could always sit with me, you know what I mean? Like when they and they would come, they came every week and you know what I mean? We all sat together. And >> who came every week? Shannon and Maria. >> Shannon. No, not Mario. You [laughter] give me the question. >> Mario made it very clear. >> I'm pretty sure that one's not. >> Yeah, he Yeah, he's I think he's an atheist. I'm pretty sure he's an atheist. He doesn't cuz he told her he was like, you know, if you keep Kim around, you know, you you keep like, you know, pretty soon she's going to pull you back and just know I'm not going to church. You know what I mean? He like and she told her that >> he told her he wouldn't go to church. He said he'd go into things for the kids. You know what I mean? He would go to events, but I'm not going to be a weekly church goer. He told her that you were going to drag her back into church. >> Really? So long since I looked at that stuff. >> Pretty She's 30. I know she's 35 and I think Well, yeah, because you see it all over the news. 33year-old father of four. You know what I mean? That's >> She's 35. So she's older than him. >> She's older than him. >> That's interesting. Normally it's the other way around. >> Normally you do see it the other way around. Yeah. >> You got like 20 years of history with Jared and >> Well, what was he like as a kid? just, you know, like [snorts] [laughter] >> they asked me that the first time. >> Oh, I'm again I'm sorry. >> He was an ass. >> Okay. Like >> he he he he came in about 6 months ago, so he missed our first. >> Well, I think John's asked me how was he as a kid, and I said he was an ass. He was the He was >> And then the conversation takes another turn. After spending so much time discussing who might have wanted Jared dead, Kim is asked to go back much further before the marriage, before the divorce, and before the murder. was the guy that broke all the girls' hearts and you know what I mean like he would date them and then he was just so mean and just you know what I mean like >> like why anyone would date him if you knew someone to date him before was always baffling to me. >> Um like if you heard the story of how you know this girl's been crying for 3 months for whatever you did to her and you know what I mean and then >> I mean he didn't have a wandering zipper did he? >> I have no idea. >> Gotcha. I'm sorry. I just wanted to use your term your your phrase. >> Yeah. I uh but you know I mean you don't know people sometimes. I >> I would doubt it. >> Gotcha. Okay. >> What I >> Was he just rude or >> he's very controlling? >> Okay. >> He's a narcissist. >> All right. >> Which is so funny to me because that's what they've painted Shana in the news to be as a narcissist. And it makes me laugh. I'm like, "No, she marries narcissists. She isn't one. She marries them." Yeah. [laughter] >> Successfully. >> Interesting you say that. So you would describe Mario as a narcissist as well? Yeah. In a different way. >> Yeah. Yeah. I got you. >> He's in a different way. >> Like which way? Like >> like some narcissists. [snorts] Like like I don't know like like for like for Jared. So like we walked in the door one time, me and Shana into her house and like there's a bottle of box of hair dye sitting on the counter. >> Mhm. [clears throat] >> Just sitting there. And I'm like forget to do something. She's like I didn't get that. And then when I left, well, I just put that there because I thought you'd look so much better if your hair was that color. Like, do you know what I mean? You know, when when they were splitting, you know, his his things were more like um >> Excuse me. when his when they were splitting up, it was she would she would call me on a Sunday >> and make sure I was going because she was going to sit with me, especially because they were just trading off even under the same roof with the kids every couple days >> and she would Are you going to be there? Yes. And she'd just put me on mute and she'd turn the phone over. >> Yeah. >> Or I'd put me on mute. She'd turn the phone upside down and he'd come in. What are you doing >> getting ready for church? My church. You know, no one wants you there. They all think you're a [ __ ] You know what I mean? Like things like like that was that's the Jared I know. This one that the news is talking about. Everybody loved him. He's handry in the neighborhood. He couldn't do crap. He can fix anything when he's married to her. Nothing. >> Now he's like building garden boxes and doing all the things. Maybe he watches YouTube. I don't know. >> I'm just saying what I see and what I knew. >> Right. >> Not saying something. Although I do believe he had to have some form of an evolution >> between Shana and then Emily and then I mean you lost two in a row and then the the new wife like something had to change and his image was very very important to him. >> Gotcha. >> Whereas Mario, I don't really think he cares about his image or cuz if you did, you wouldn't post half the stupid crap he used to post. You know what I mean? you're going to some anti- good thing on Easter. Like, what the hell's wrong with you? Do you know what I mean? Like, like I don't think he cares what you think. >> Mhm. >> But >> he just >> I don't know. He He's just different. I feel like he's I mean, I know he's a narcissist. >> Being Mario. >> Mario's different. Mario is different than Jared. >> I don't think Jared cheated on Shana. >> I know Shana didn't cheat on Jared. >> You know what I mean? All the nights he accused her of being gone, she was on my couch. You know what I mean? So those are the things that I wish that the public could see the other side. >> Mhm. >> But she doesn't want the kids to throw up and read things. >> So what was the it's probably no real bearing anything, but I know there was the one news company went and interviewed that her trainer that >> how what was the deal with that? What was the back story with all that? >> And >> that was not her trainer for starters. Um, which is so comical because you know the same news company said that her trainer was Mario. She didn't even meet Mario until years after she divorced Jared. And they alluded, you know what I mean? It was like, "Oh, Mario was her trainer at Crawford." No, it's all stupid. It's all stupid. Like none of the nothing that he said married up with what actually was because she ended up dating the guy after they were divorced. >> That guy, >> not the guy that was talking. >> Who Who was that guy? Did she ever even know him? >> Anonymity. the guy that she was her trainer. >> He was two time he was, you know, he he was the flirt at the at the Y and he had a girlfriend out of town and he was telling her that Shana was a stalker and really, you know, he's telling her all the things, you know, you need to leave that guy or whatever. You know what I mean? So, I don't believe I don't believe that whoever they talked to, which their name never came out. >> It wasn't the the trainer. It wasn't. So you think that that guy was just trying to create? >> He saw the reward is what I think. You asked me what my thoughts are. That's how >> he saw the reward and thought, "Oh, well, I'll say we, you know what I mean? And I can't tell you that she didn't know other people that went out. You know what I mean? They would go out and she would socialize or whatever." But like >> my analytical mind says, "Okay, by your own admission, we were out drinking." >> By the end of this interview, Kim has given detectives her version of Jared Shaamario. and Henry but one question still refuses to disappear. Henry wasn't acting alone. Who was behind him? And as investigators kept connecting the pieces, the answers would eventually lead the case somewhere. Kim, >> you're out drinking, you know, 8 years ago. And I remember her saying, you know, I wish someone could shut him up. Okay. In the heat of everyone separate. You know what I mean? >> I mean, my sister's going through an awful divorce now, too. And she's like, "My life will never be peace till he's dead." You know what I mean? But that doesn't mean she's going to put a hit out on him. You know what I mean? I think every angry, bitter divorce, you say things >> that are not necessarily >> you mean. >> And if this would have happened 8 years ago, >> I might have had more thoughts. But you know what I mean? Like you're halfway through your sentence of you know what I mean? SHARING LIKE WHY NOW? >> Things were things were even right now. These were things were even killed between the two of them. So like doesn't make sense. >> What do you see? Look closely at Kim's story and the people she believes may have had a motive. What do you think really happened? And which part of her story deserves a closer look? Drop your theory in the comments. And if you want more interrogation breakdowns, hidden details, and psychological analysis, like the video and subscribe to Verdict Interrogation for