So, oh, it just makes me sick even thinking about it. >> What I did. >> I know. I'm sure it's been just killing you the last few days. >> It's been killing me since the day it happened. [clears throat] >> I think we were talking to you, too. >> I ran and I went to go find his phone and I couldn't find it. So, I had to run out to the craft room to get mine. >> Okay. >> I called 911 and I went back in to check on it. >> 2010, rural Minnesota. Jennifer Gilman had just received a shotgun from her husband, Jim. They had used it together before, and nothing about that night seemed unusual. Days later, Jim was dead in their bedroom. Jennifer called 911 and said someone had broken into the house, but some of the details didn't add up. When detectives began questioning her, the story she had told them started. >> That's kind of the theme of the day. Everyone is told that I talked to >> Brady had this business. Um, was it the was the day before the wake and ended up having this crap, too. >> How long did it last? Was it a while? >> It was a good 3 4 days. >> He had a fever and stuff, too. So, um, just a couple questions. Um, can I ask some questions or no? >> You can, but but what we have to what we have to clarify a couple things, Jen, just for the record, is that you initiated and told the jail that you wanted to talk to us. So, that's why we came in here and met with you. And then the other thing is for us to talk to you at all, we have to read your rights cuz you're in custody. So, I do have to do that again. And if there's a question you don't want to answer or something like that, you never have to. That's maybe I haven't made that clear before, but I do have to go through that again. Okay. All right. You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can or will be used against you in court. You [snorts] have the right to talk to a lawyer now or have a lawyer present now or any time during questioning. If you cannot afford to hire a lawyer, one will be appointed for you without cost. Okay. >> Do you understand each of these rights I've explained to you? >> I do. >> And having them in mind, are you willing to speak with us at this time? >> Yes. >> Okay. um for one thing for Monday is um because the lawyer that I wanted to get and as I'm thinking about things and things are going through my mind um if I decide not to hire this lawyer you said is one going to be appointed to me on then is that how that works >> right if if you if you decided not to hire a lawyer that you've already talked to you can tell the court you can either tell the court I have this lawyer or I have that lawyer or I'm going to call a lawyer or I'd like you to appoint me a lawyer which whichever ever. You just need to tell the court, >> okay, >> what your intentions are. >> Okay. >> Yep. >> Um um the second thing is is is am I ever at any chance going to be able to say hi to Brady or talk to him at all or anything? Or >> Brady is Nibby's 16-year-old son. Brady had a good relationship with his stepfather and was frightened and confused during his interview with the police. And we'll hear more about what happened next. >> You know, I don't want to make a promise, but but it's it's possible. Um, court hearings are open to the public. >> Okay. Um, so that means family can come. Anybody can come, you know, for that. They're open to the public. And and Brady is 16, so he would be considered old enough to come into the courtroom and be there. Now, generally, they're not going to let you go have physical contact, I don't think, with him is generally the way it works. >> Okay. >> Over video, you know. >> Oh, I see. >> At the jail. >> At the jail. But I mean up in court you you'd see him, but like if you tried to to go have physical contact, they would probably stop you because there's always issues. And I'm not saying you would do this, but issues like if somebody's trying to smuggle something to somebody. So they try to avoid the contact, >> you know. So that's >> okay. >> That's, you know, I'm not going to say it's not entire, it's not absolutely not possible, but I'm not going to guarantee it either cuz >> it just kind of depends on on some things. >> Um con what was I? You said homicide um yesterday. Mhm. >> What? What are my convictions? What? >> You're You're not convicted of anything yet. You're charged. >> Okay. What am I charged? I never got a charge sheet or anything. >> This is Jennifer Gilman, the wife who became her husband's killer. This is the woman detectives sat down with after Jim's death trying to understand what happened inside that house. >> I never had a charge or charge. >> The jail had a copy of it. >> They have a copy of it over there. Maybe. Did you ask them to see it or anything or >> I didn't. I guess >> we can make that happen till we go. But I can I can tell you it's secondderee >> murder is what it is what it what you're charged with. Okay. >> Um that's >> that's um >> you know. >> And what does that entail? >> Um well I think what I think it's secondderee intentional murder is what you're charged with. So that just means that you >> intended to kill somebody. Um you know it's >> you know I mean it's it's if if you accidentally shoot somebody that's generally charged as manslaughter for instance. You know, like if you're being careless with a gun, doing something crazy, and it goes off. You know, a lot of times you'll see guys think a gun is unloaded and they point it and pull the trigger and it's not, that's often times charged like as a manslaughter cuz it was an accident, but you were still doing something that you really shouldn't have been doing. You know, then you'd be charged with manslaughter. Then the next step up from that is seconddegree murder. So, >> um, so that's that's the situation. >> I don't know what to say. I just want this to go away. I know. >> I know. It's not going to [snorts] think sometimes it's what we're talking to you about without us knowing what exactly happened. >> Like I said, I mean, we know about the drug stuff, John. Okay. If you're out of your mind on drugs, you're out of your mind on drugs, that's okay. We need to know that and hear it from you, I guess, is the only thing. Um, the >> I have an addiction to prescription pain [laughter] pills. >> Okay. When did it start? >> I'm so ashamed. >> It's okay. >> I call prescriptions in for myself. I'm just >> so ashamed. >> It's okay. A lot of people have things happen and a lot of people make mistakes. You're not the only person that's ever been addicted to prescription pain medication. It's okay. [snorts] Was there an event that kind of started that off that precipitated that? Did you get injured or something or just >> I injured my ankle a while ago and um it got worse after [snorts] while we were dating that first year. It wasn't too bad. And then it was slightly before I think we got married that I ended up becoming addicted to them and needing to have them all the time. Otherwise, I would go through withdrawal. >> Okay. What did it Did it start with Tramodol or start with something else? >> No, it's just always been >> Cuz that's a that's a not a commonly prescribed drug, is it? >> It's it's not even a controlled substance. It's not even a controlled nar narcotic, but it has opioid effect. >> Okay. So, it kind of affects your brain the same way a narcotic would. >> Yep. >> Okay. And how much I mean what how much are you using right now? How much had you been using on average? >> 180 pills a week. >> Wow. >> Which is usually eight per day is the max. >> Okay. And those are what? How many milligram? Like 40 milligram 50 >> 50 milligram pills. >> A large number of people become addicted to pain medication that they are prescribed after an injury or surgery. They usually do not realize what is happening until it is too late. >> Wow. >> I just my life wasn't This is no response cuz [snorts] Mhm. Well, and it it sounds like from some of the stuff we're hearing you for a while you've been kind of carrying all the bills and that kind of stuff. So, you've been under, you know, a lot of pressure to work two jobs, three jobs. >> I'm sure that doesn't help. I never wanted to hurt anybody. >> But I am an honest person. I'm not a liar. [snorts] And I've always done that to my [laughter] son. But I've become that person. I've become that liar that [snorts] finding excuses why I'd be late for work and stuff. And >> a lot of it was the meds. A lot, you know, a lot of it was the the using >> Mhm. >> Jennifer finally admits how serious the addiction had become. She knew the pills were taking over her life, but she kept it from the people around her. And even after everything that happened to Jim, there was still more the detectives needed to understand about that night. And I knew I worked in healthcare. I knew you could get help, but I didn't do it. [snorts] A lot of people have to battle through stuff too, John. [clears throat] I said it's it's it's nothing that anybody wants to talk about, too. But you're not the only person that's had to go through the through that stuff, and it has effects on people where they do stuff that that they wouldn't normally do. It changes them, you know. It really does. We see it all the time. And prescription drug stuff is getting to be bigger than anything else. So, there a [snorts] lot of people that that have problems with it. I can't face anybody. How do you face somebody when you've done something like this? >> I know. [sighs and gasps] >> It was like I was there, but what I but I wasn't. like you were not in your person watching yourself do something and >> get rid of the devil. Get rid of it. [gasps] Was there voices telling you that? Did you feel like you were hallucinating? >> I don't I [snorts] don't know. I [sighs and gasps] >> You hadn't slept all night, had you? [snorts] >> I could tell that morning you looked like you'd been up for hours and hours. [sighs] [snorts] [snorts] >> You've been taking way too many pills. Yeah. >> Do you ever >> too many? >> Do you ever crush them up? Are you ingesting them any other way than >> Sorry. I have some hair or something in my >> Okay. >> mouth. >> I usually just took them as pills. >> No, I didn't. I never injected or anything like that. Okay. Okay. [clears throat] >> So, kind of a secret you were keeping too or did other people know about it much? >> Nobody knew about it. Nobody knew about it. [snorts] >> Getting harder to keep that secret or [snorts] >> Well, financially wise, I suppose it was. Mhm. cuz I had to pay for those and you know it wasn't cheap but I also had to pay for everything else. So >> yeah it seemed like I said from what we're what we're hearing Jim hadn't been working much up until up until recently >> up until these last four weeks I suppose. >> So you were carrying the mortgage and the bills and they say working three jobs. It's a lot of pressure. >> I don't understand how somebody goes from this to this just like that. I don't get it. I know. You know what, Jen? I I want to tell you just about my [snorts] my friend, my best friend in the whole world. >> We've been friends for many years. Work together, you know, do stuff outside of work together. >> I know you can lie to me, though. Is this [ __ ] >> No, it is not [ __ ] You guys, listen. Listen. >> I'm not stupid either. >> No, I know you're not stupid, Jen. I absolutely know you're not stupid, okay? We've talked to a ton of people and we've talked to you and I know you are not stupid and I do not think you're stupid and neither does Paul. >> We've talked to we've spent a lot of time talking together and I think >> we don't think you're stupid and this is this is a true story and and I'm just telling this cuz I want you to understand that we're not these evil people who just think terribly of you. Okay? But I had a good friend. We were very close for 12 years. Partners at work. Hung out outside of work. We we were like this. Okay. We're kind of like you and Carrie were. You know what I mean? We're we're tight. And he got he had hurt his back and he had hurt his knee. Both on work rellated injuries. And he had gotten hooked on pain pills. He was taking oxycodone though, you know, but same same effect on the brain probably. And I had no idea. And he had gotten addicted and he was doing the same types of things, internetarmacies, taking all these pills. And you know, it just it destroyed his life. It destroyed our friendship. He ended up losing his job. I mean, and he was out of his mind and he was doing crazy crazy things and this was my best friend. And I'm like, this can't be. He can't this can't be happening. I didn't want to believe it. But it does happen because it controls you. >> Um, and this is not a BS story. I swear to you, it's it's a true story. Um, so I I I can't relate personally like I can say I've been in your shoes, >> but I have I've seen it before. Okay. I've seen it before up close. Um, and it's it's very powerful. And like I've said before, it makes people do things that they wouldn't do in a million years. Um, you know, and and we can't none of us can go back and undo what what's happened. Okay? As much as you want to, okay, I know you [cough and clears throat] want to, but we can't we can't. >> God, if I can do it by heartbeat, I would. >> What? >> If I can't give you my life, I would. [snorts] >> What? What? Here here's the thing. You you you said something, Jen, that we can lie to you. And and you know, we to a degree, police can, but I'm not going to I I I'm I'm not going to lie to you, okay? I I promise. Um you have my word. I'm not I hope you can look at me in the eyes and believe that I'm not going to lie to you, okay? Um we don't we don't want to do that. We don't need to do that. You said yourself. You've always been an honest person. And that's again all the people we've talked to, your friends, your family, all of them say the same thing. Okay. Um you are of good character. Okay. You have no criminal record. You have worked hard to make something of yourself and you've worked very hard to make something of Brady. And he is a great kid. >> Good kid. >> He is number one in his class. >> He is a good kid. Oh god. He's a good kid. >> The detectives keep bringing her back to the person she used to be. a good mother, a hard worker, someone people trusted. Then Brady comes up and you can hear how much that hurts her. She knows what she did, but now she has to think about what her son will have to live with. >> This is going to kill him. >> Well, no, he's Brady can Brady can survive this. Okay, he can survive this. Okay, it's going to be hard. Okay, >> nobody's going to ever forgive me. I guess I can't blame them. [clears throat] >> But sometimes they will though. >> I Yeah, I don't know that I would say that. I don't say that that that would necessarily be the case. >> So if I plead guilty on Monday, what is going to happen to me? >> That that I can't tell you that. And again, I told you I won't lie. I won't lie. I don't know. Okay. All those decisions, our job, Paul's job, my job. We're not here to judge you. Okay. No, >> it's our only our job to gather the facts, to find the truth, um, and present that to the prosecuting attorney. They make the decision on charges. You know, the judge has input on, you know, all those things on sentence and that's all, you know, that's all stuff we're getting, you know, the cart kind of ahead of the horse here, you know. Um, but you know what I can tell you that the only thing we can do for you is is is try and present your story fairly and accurately. And that's what I've promised people before is I won't twist things, okay? I won't I won't try to portray you as something that you're not, okay? Um I'm not going to try to to just put spin on it. You know what I mean? I I can promise you that's the only thing I promise you is that I can be make sure that what is real and true and accurate goes forward. And if you present, I mean, I'm not I would never go to the court and say, "Oh, I think Jennifer has, you know, been a terrible mother and a terrible wife." I don't think those things at all. I think that, you know what I mean? You've you've done the right things, okay? And I would would be honest in that, okay? You know, what what would happen to you, you know, what potential sentences and and those kinds of things, man, that's all for people above us. So that's for prosecuting and attorneys to make on charging decisions and and judges, you know. Um that that's all beyond us. I can't I can't make that up. That's just the way. >> Are they going to make me reenact everything? Um, no. I don't, you know, for to enter a guilty plea, you have to have to give some statement of what happened for the court to for the judge to be satisfied that it's believable and he accepts it and and all those things, you know, cuz sometimes, crazy as it sounds, sometimes people who didn't do things sometimes do claim to have done something and so the judge has to make sure that he he believes, you know, that. But, um, but as far as actually reenacting things, no. Um, >> and I think too a lot of uh, you know, what we do too is for courts and for our job for that, but a lot of what we do too is for the people that are left behind. >> You know, we we I personally would would uh, you know, if I I empathize with the family, too. >> I'm sure they kind of would want to know too. Exactly. >> Right. I mean, and >> that's that's the biggest question right now probably that the people we talk to have is they want to know how and why, you know, um they they just want answers, you know, they want something that makes that they can kind of wrap their mind around and, you know, say, "Well, okay, this is why this all happened." Yeah, we kind of got a little bit of a window into things through our investigation too, you know, but again, you know, we weren't there. So, there's just so many things going through my head. I don't know. I mean, it's it's everything we've talked about. the pressure of everything, the finances, um, and the drugs. >> All of these are factors, but Nibby still hasn't mentioned her communications with one of her ex-boyfriends. And you live your when you [snorts] you live your day for that next effect. >> Mhm. And Jim didn't know anything about this either. We were able to keep it from him. >> Mhm. >> At least >> for the most part. >> Yeah. >> [snorts] >> I would say it was my headache medicine or stomach medicine or >> and and you know your family and and everybody has said yeah Jen's we don't think she's well >> physically you know that's people people have told us that that's they recognize that something's wrong they don't know what >> you know but >> like I said it was me but it wasn't me >> I >> [laughter] [snorts] >> Jim, what's more important than than you know it happened? You can't back up and do it. Obviously, you're sorry. Okay. You said yourself if you could change it and give your life, you would. >> Is that true? You said that. That's what you meant. >> Yeah. >> Cuz because there again, those are things that I think that's important for people to hear that from you. You know how you how you feel that you're not you're not some uncaring. Okay. >> It was horrible. >> It was horrible when it happened. I thought, "Oh my god, what can I do? What's wrong?" [laughter] >> And that's why I made it look like someone tried to hurt me and came in and >> Okay. I I I want to make sure on a couple things though that are important. Okay. >> Brady had nothing to do with any of this. >> No. >> Swear. >> I swear to God. No. I swear to God. >> He doesn't know anything about it. He didn't help you set this scene up or anything. You truly you truly didn't wake him up until afterwards. [snorts] >> I swear to God. I swear I swear on my life. I swear. >> Well, I know. I I believe you if you swear that it's the truth. But I But I have to ask you that. I have to be clear on that. >> I do. Um, >> but he had absolutely nothing to do with it. He was so startled. >> Mhm. >> When I went down there, >> cuz I was on the phone with 911 when I went down there to ask him, he he was he was asleep, you know, he was dead asleep and I called his name twice >> and then he finally woke up, you know, with the big eyes like >> what the hell was going on, mom? So his reactions, which they seem like they're all very normal and appropriate for somebody in that situation. That's all legit. >> Y >> Okay. >> Brady knew nothing about Nothing. [clears throat] >> Okay. >> Nothing. >> Did anybody know about it? >> No. >> No. >> Carrie? Nobody? >> Nobody. >> Okay. >> Nobody. >> Okay. I believe you. >> How long had you been thinking about it though that night? I mean, like I say, you were up all night. I want to >> Jennifer admits she staged the house to make it look like someone had broken in, but she keeps insisting Brady had nothing to do with it. The detectives believe her. Then they ask her something much harder. Had she been thinking about killing Jim before that morning? >> I went to sleep at one point. >> Okay. Um um cuz we went to sleep and I think by the time I actually fell asleep though it was like probably 12:00 12:30 and then I woke up at 4:30. >> Okay. >> To my alarm. >> Okay. >> And I shut that off and I had fallen back asleep. >> Okay. And then when it was 5:30, that's when I all of a sudden got into a panic and went cuz I had taken some meds >> and you hadn't had much sleep. >> So Oh, it just makes me sick even thinking about it >> and what I did. >> I know. I'm sure it's been just killing you the last few days. >> It's been killing me since the day it happened. [clears throat] >> I think we >> we were talking to you too. >> No, that >> it shows. >> It's clear. >> It's a lot to carry around. >> I don't know how I'm going to live with this the rest of my life. I don't know how. But the other thing is though is I know that Jim is in heaven. and that Brady will someday go to heaven and then if I try to take my own life I won't be with them cuz that just crossed my mind too. >> Well, and I would just encourage you please don't try to push those thoughts out because you know what? You made a mistake but you're still Brady's mother and you're going to be his mother for the rest of his life and and you need to continue to do that. Okay. Um that that >> even if it is from my jokes [cough] [snorts] I'm just sick about it. I am just so sick. It sounds like when I talked to Carrie the one day we were going to meet with the minister or >> Yes. >> Pastor Nancy. >> Yep. Pastor Nancy we met. >> So you're and you are very active in the church like you said that way too. >> Yeah. >> So >> I mean I'm sure that's that's part of it too. It's probably difficult to carry this around too when you're >> feeling guilty. >> Be an honest person. Yeah. Yeah. >> I mean, I think to me it speaks volumes about what we've been hearing about you from everybody else, >> right? And and that's >> and I took somebody's son and I took somebody's brother and grandson and uncle and he was a good person. He was a good person. There were some things in our marriage that were not the greatest, but I mean >> Mhm. >> was a good person. >> I just can't live with this lie. and and that and that's the first step that you've you've taken now, Jim, is you're you're recognizing that you are still a person with good qualities. Okay. Um and and you're on the right track to try and still be that person. You know what I mean? Um this this is not the end of Jen, okay? It's It's not This is You're You're gonna It is >> Well, I know. But >> [ __ ] somebody do that. >> And I kept saying no. And it was like someone was telling me he's the devil. He's the devil. >> Telling you that Jim's the devil. And I did it. [snorts] >> And then you thought, "Oh my god, what did I do?" Thank you for letting me bury him. It's okay. >> Before arresting me. I appreciate that. >> Okay. You're welcome. And [clears throat] >> you deserve to have that. You deserve to have that closure in your say goodbye. Okay. Just cuz you just because you made a mistake doesn't mean you didn't care about him. He >> was a good man. >> I need help though. >> [snorts] >> I I know that this is really hard and I and I don't want to push you. Okay. >> Okay. >> I don't I really don't and I'm not going to and Paul's not either. Okay. Um you you this is this is you and I'm going to write the report that way. >> Okay. >> That we didn't Jen did this of her own valition. We didn't >> we didn't make her do this. She is a big person, is a person of strong enough character and said, "I'm going to be honest and do this." Okay. Cuz that's what happened, right? >> Yes. >> And I guarantee I will make the report reflect that. Okay. Um that that is the way this happened. And I'm not going to I'm not going to push you. I know you're having a very hard time with this. Okay. [cough] Which is completely understandable. [snorts] Um but but we do need to go through the details or we'd like to just one time. Okay. >> Okay. and and you do it and we're not going to push and you do it at your own pace, okay? But but I know you want to have the truth out there. Exactly. The truth, okay? [snorts] From from start to finish, one time um I don't know where to start. >> Jennifer is ready to go through the night again. This time from the beginning, the detectives let her tell it in order. Monday night, going to bed, waking up, and then the few minutes that changed everything. >> I don't know where to start. I guess >> let let's start Monday night. >> Monday night. Okay, >> let's start Monday night. You're with Carrie, right? She was not doing well, not feeling well. Is that Is that true? >> Yep. >> Okay. I thought it was. >> Yes, that was very true. And there is something I'd like to clear up. Supposedly, she said that I didn't go on an ambulance call. I did go on an ambulance call that night. >> On on the ambulance call on Saturday the Saturday night when she was not feeling well as well. >> Exactly. I did go on that ambulance call and she said, "Oh, I told." And I said, >> "I told you I went on that ambulance call." >> So, she's mistaken. >> Yes. Yes. So, some things are not always exactly clear in her head. So, but >> I will make a note [cough] >> for us to square that away. And and you know what? We can go check the records. >> Sure. and they'll show that you were there. So, >> Exactly. Exactly. I'll be on the run report. So, >> Right. Okay. >> So, let's start with Monday night when you get you're with Carrie. >> So, Monday night I was with Carrie. We talked about um let's see what did we talk about now? She wasn't feeling good. Um we talked about all that at work, you know, cuz they had tried to I guess get her to work and didn't work. And um the bosses were mad cuz they had made her come in on Sunday and I guess she had a work note saying she wasn't be supposed to be there and stuff. So um >> so then we went out to um MPA because of the whole there had been people with flashlights and stuff in the yard. >> So we went out there to check to make sure everything was okay. >> So that's all true too. That wasn't made up or anything about [cough] >> this. Okay. >> And Yukon freaking out the other night. That's true. That was true, too. Yep, that was true, too. >> Okay. >> Um, and so we checked that out and tried to reiterate to P not to, you know, go outside by himself and stuff. And then as I was leaving, Carrie's Jim had called and I think I had missed his call, so I called him back and he said he was just getting home from work. Um, and um, so I went back home. Um, this is horrible. >> I know. >> It's horrible though, you guys. >> I know. >> And yes, I had to Jim there was a gun Jim had bought for me. >> That's true, too. >> That's very true. >> Okay. >> Jim bought the gun for me. Wanted me to learn how to target practice. >> Mhm. >> Um, >> was he when you got home Monday night, was he already home or did you get home first? >> He was home first and then I got home. He was outside dinking around. So, I said, "You want to help?" >> I said, "Do you want me to target shoot?" Because you've been wanting me to target shoot. bought me that gun. >> Mhm. >> So, we target shoot or we we did our target practice or whatever. Went inside, got a little to eat, >> and I shot a part. >> Yeah. I think we shot first. >> Then went inside. >> And then went inside to eat. >> Okay. >> And then we me and Brady had our little meatball fight. >> Mhm. Um, and so then I came back upstairs and had finished off the rest of the meatballs and the mashed potatoes and Jim had been making some other leftovers and stuff for him. And then I put a few dishes away and I brushed my teeth. And then Jim and I went and sat on the couch and watched TV and he had set the gun in the corner. >> Where at? In which room? >> In the um but next to the sliding glass door. >> Okay. >> He set that in the corner and I knew the ammo was up there too. >> Okay. cuz we had put that there >> and he had showed you how to load the gun. >> Mhm. >> How to and can >> Yeah. Because we went deer hunting the year before. I mean, he was trying to teach me how to do all that with any type of gun that he was getting me to use. So, >> and then we watched the news until 10:30 and went to bed. [snorts] He was after me about sex a lot and that was something that bothered me. Um >> Okay. Caused some friction between you two. >> Yeah. He um it on a pretty regular basis and and I tried the best I could but sometimes it just um sometimes I just had problems with that and if you continue to push and push and push it just ends up not being fun for the other person, you know? So >> just be tension. So there was resentment there. Um because it was a constant thing, [snorts] a constant you want to do it, you want to do it, you want to. And there was no romance >> left when it came to that. It was like fine, just finish and get it over with so I can go to sleep, I guess. So >> Mhm. >> Um so I actually had made something up that I had a yeast infection or something like that. Okay. >> So, he was Sorry, guys. >> No, it's all right. And he was he was that night wanting to >> have sex and you didn't want to? >> And I didn't want to. >> Did it become a big fight or was it just kind of the >> um He usually just got mad and rolled over and went to bed. That's usually the way it would go. [snorts] >> Okay. >> That happened every week. >> Okay. >> If not twice a week, we'd get he would get mad at me for it. If he could have it every day, he could. But >> I >> sometimes when you're approached in certain ways, it's just not fun anymore. So, >> um, [snorts] >> so I laid there and I laid there. I had taken some pills before I had gone to bed. Do >> you remember how many? >> Probably like six or eight. which sometimes when I do that that I I have a hard time sleeping to begin with because that is how it messes with you sometimes. >> Kind of like make you agitated. >> It does. It kind of keeps you up. Um makes you dream >> stuff like that. And so I had woke up at alarm went off at 4:30 and I had shut it off and I think I had a >> She says she had taken more pills and barely slept. Around 5:30 she woke up, got the shotgun and went back into the bedroom. Then she says Jim was lying there and she pulled the trigger. After that everything happened very quickly. I think I had a couple more pills laying on the nightstand that I had taken. Trying to remember if I had water there, if I just took them dry. I don't even know. And I had fallen back asleep, though. And I woke up at 5:30 in a panic. >> [snorts] >> And that's when I went out and I got the code and I loaded one shell and I came back into the bedroom [snorts] and there was a throw blanket laying on the end of the bed. So I took that and kind of rest the gun on his shoulder [snorts] and the and they just kept saying he's the devil. He's the devil. And I pulled the trigger. Oh god. It's okay. >> [snorts] >> Oh my god, I'm just so [laughter] sick. This is not me. I'm not this person. [snorts] [laughter] >> [snorts] >> I put the gun down and realized he wasn't leaving. I paned in. I went to go find his phone and I couldn't find it. So, I had to run out to the craft room to get mine. >> Okay. I called 911 and I went back in check on it. I couldn't feel a pulse. >> Where did Where did you check on his neck or his wrist or >> I think I checked on his wrist and his neck. >> Okay. >> I can't remember to be honest with you. I can't. >> But but at that point, you knew he was gone. My family is never going to work. Neither is this [gasps] and my son. >> I think it's a lot to ask for them to forgive, but I think at the same time, Jen, you're giving them some answers, too. >> And that's important for them. >> You You can't You can't control what they do or how they feel. All you can control right now is your actions from this point forward. Okay? [snorts] >> And and you can you made a a horrible mistake. There's no disputing that. I'm not going to minimize it. Okay? Mhm. >> We all know that. You know, I said, "We don't think you're dumb. You know that." >> Um, you know, but all you can control from here on out is your actions from this point forward. And you, all you can do is try to be the best person you can be. And set that example for Brady that even when you make a mistake, you can be honest with it. [snorts] You can, you know, take your take your punishment and and try and do the right thing. make your try to make your amends with who who will accept it and who you know you know your your dad [cough] I don't know him but he's he's going to be your dad always and your mom's going to be your mom and >> and they will still love you you know um will they be disappointed will they be hurt sure that's not not lie to that either of course they will but they will still they will still care about you okay um I believe that he had so many years to live. >> [snorts] >> I never thought. [snorts] And I guess marijuana isn't the worst thing, but I watched my dad for 40 years deal with marijuana addiction. And >> Mhm. >> You just wouldn't think you'd get yourself into drug addiction either. >> Mhm. Was that a long time ago or when was that? >> Dad. >> Yeah. How long your dad was? >> He stopped smoking pot when he was 40 years old. >> Okay. >> Yeah, he's 50. [snorts] >> What is he? 53 54 now. >> Okay. >> 54. [snorts] >> Yep. He was a good father though. He never And I'm not saying it's right, but he never did it in front of us. And he never suggested, you know, subjected us to >> Mhm. all the weirdos and stuff that stuff can produce. But [snorts] he smoked pot for since he was, you know, 20 years old, 21, till he was 40. The detectives go back over the details one more time. The shotgun, the ammunition, the blanket. Then they start asking about the things that were moved around the house. the chair, the rope, the knife, even the marks on Jennifer herself. >> I just have to clarify a couple things. Okay. >> Yeah. >> You said that there was a throw throw rug is what you describe it as. >> Throw blanket. >> Throw blanket. >> Yeah. >> Um and you put that up there on his shoulder and rested the gun on it. >> Mhm. >> Was that for any other reason other than to stabilize the gun? Were you trying to make it quieter so that Brady wouldn't wake up or anything like that? And was it like around the barrel at all or was that your thinking at that time to not wake up right or not? >> No, maybe not. I think cuz it was I was shaking so bad it was rattling. >> Okay. Just like you were >> Yeah. >> trembling. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Even though Jim was a heavy sleeper, but >> Mhm. >> How do you take someone's life and then draw on with your own? I don't know how. Do you have any other questions for me? I think I need to go lay down. Yeah. Ju just just one one other one. It was the same gun that he had taught you to shoot. [snorts] >> Yes. >> And and what kind of gun is that? >> Um >> I mean is it a 12 gauge or a 20 gauge? It's >> a shotgun. >> It's a shotgun with a scope. >> Okay. And it's [clears throat] uh the action. Do you know what kind of action is? How you have to load a bullet in it? >> Like a semi-automatic. Is that what you mean? >> Do you have to pump it? >> You have to pump it. >> Okay. Is that the >> in order to >> Okay. Cuz there is another gun up there that Brady brought up. >> Yes. >> And I just want to verify we're we're on because we have to sort that out and our scientists will have to do that. And you used the ammunition you said was the same ammunition. >> Yep. >> And it was what kind? Was it birdshot or slug? >> It was slug, I think. >> Okay. And do you know the difference? >> No, to be honest, I don't. >> Okay. >> No, >> but that's what you were shooting outside was slugs. >> I believe it was slugs, >> which is what you use for deer, honey, is what he was having you practice with. >> I think so. Yes. >> Okay. And I know Mike said that we weren't going to push you and and is it okay if I ask you because I was wondering too and you know cuz we had talked that morning and stuff and then when I went in there and you were on the couch sitting there with Brady things that kind of there was stuff laying there in the room and there was a chair that was moved and stuff. >> Mhm. >> When did all that stuff get put in the room or changed or >> because our assumption was that it you know you kind of set that set that stuff up. I can't remember >> if it was before or after. >> Okay. >> Do you remember though what was put out there and the and moved around and stuff? >> I know. I had pushed the chair. I disheveled the the chair. >> Yeah. >> The like rocking. >> Yeah, the rocking the new stand next to it. >> Okay. >> And um the rope and the knife. >> Okay. And where did the rope come from? >> It was on the counter. >> Okay. And the knife is a kitchen knife. Yeah. >> And then the sigh, that big weed cutter thing. >> Mhm. >> Where did that How does that come into play in this? Were you thinking that would help your story about an intruder or >> It was out in the garage. >> In the attached garage. >> Yeah. >> Okay. And so you brought that in there and just laid it down. >> Yes. >> Okay. Um that would have been before you called 911 though. >> Yes. >> And I know I just have a couple other quick questions. When I talked to you before, remember I asked you about impact spatter on your clothing? >> Yeah. the clothing that we collected from you. Was it the clothing you were wearing at the time? >> Yeah, >> it was. But you were very confident that there would be no impact spatter on there. Why is that? >> Or >> Oh, I don't know. >> You just were playing that. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Cuz that day you said, "Oh, there won't be any blood spatter on my clothing." >> Oh, I didn't I don't even remember that to be honest [laughter] with you. I don't >> Okay. I just was wondering if if you had changed clothes or something or why you were cuz you were very confident in that answer. Um, and I just was curious cuz, you know, usually when there's something where there's a gunshot, you know, as you know, there's blood splatter and it gets on your clothes and the scientists can look at that and see that it's a different type of >> stain, you know, versus >> and just the last couple things. So, the cuts on your legs >> you inflicted. >> Yes. >> The marks on your neck. >> Yes. Right. You didn't help you inflict any of those things or do any of that? >> No. >> I know you said he's not involved, but I'm just making sure. >> The one mark on your neck looked like a fork mark. Like a like a fork. [cough] What did you use to make the marks on your neck, I guess, is what I'm asking. >> The knife. >> You used the knife to make the marks on your neck. Okay. >> And same thing with your arms. >> Yeah. >> And the knife that you put out there or a different knife? >> No, the same knife. >> The same knife. Okay. Okay. >> Um, and I can't, you know, I know that, you know, there's probably more questions. Is there anything that you want us to make sure that goes in the report that the prosecutor knows that I mean I know you're sorry, right? [snorts] >> Very. >> That's obvious. That's obvious. But >> have you talked to anybody and told anybody about this yet, Jen? >> No. >> Besides us, you >> not your not called your dad or talked to anybody? >> No. >> Okay. We had talked about that wedding ring. >> Did we ever find it? >> That's what I was wondering if we found it. >> We We don't have it. And And it's not It wasn't with Jim. So, >> okay. >> You You didn't do anything with it. >> I did not. No, I didn't. Well, somebody >> his sister was kind of messed up though and she we caught her out at the the farm after this happened and she was taking some of his shirts and stuff and I'm almost adamant she took it but I don't know for sure Leslie. >> Okay, cuz we we did check all over and we just to make sure we didn't have it. So, >> we're being honest with you on that. So, >> but that was in my mind as to something if you know you didn't know what happened with it or something. So, Okay. >> Any other questions for us? Anything you want us to answer? Um, >> what do I do on Monday? I >> You'll go to court and do they usually do a morning arraignment bar here? >> Usually it's around 8:15. >> Um, you know, they'll get you in at some point in the morning. Um, your case is probably going to be a little bit different just because it's been publicized and stuff, too. But, uh, but they'll get you in Monday morning. >> Okay. of >> and and um yeah, you you can tell the judge you need an attorney if you want an attorney. Um you know, you can it's up to you. You know, you you hold the cards as to how this goes forward. >> Cuz if I plead guilty, I don't even really need an attorney, do I? >> Well, on on something this serious, the the judge probably won't accept your plea without you at least talking to one. >> Okay. >> Um you know what I mean? That's just my opinion. I think that'll happen. That's happened in other places where I've been, you know, I've been involved in a lot of murder cases and Generally, the judge will say, "Well, I'm not going to accept your plea till you at least talk to an attorney." Okay? >> Um, in something serious like this. So, so that's probably what would happen. I mean, you can tell them what what you want to do. You can tell them, you can tell the judge, you can speak to him. Um, you'll have an opportunity to speak at your arraignment. Um, you know, they they generally an arraignment will will talk about bail. You know, on something like this, the prosecutor will ask for high bail. Now Jennifer is thinking about court and what happens next, but the detectives still aren't finished. They bring up Eric, the former boyfriend she had been talking to. Jennifer is clear he had nothing to do with the murder. And neither did any prosecutor will ask for high bail. You know, I don't know. Um, you know, and and uh you can ask for, you know, of course, lower bail if you want. Can argue why you have lower bail? You know, that's I'm not going to lie to you. That's the chances of getting low bail would be pretty unlikely on something like this. Yeah. I mean, I'm not going to BS you on that. That's um you know, have you been able to to make phone calls though from the jail if you wanted to? They did give you a calling card or whatever. >> They gave me a calling card. Um and um I did try to call my attorney, which I really had a hard time getting through to him. >> Mhm. >> But I did talk to him to this morning. >> Okay. >> Um >> who was that? >> Earl. >> It was Earl. That was the right name. Okay. >> Yeah. real gray. >> Okay. So, you talked to him this morning. >> Yep. >> Okay. >> He told me to sit tight when I talked to my dad this afternoon. I just heard the disappointment in his voice. >> Mhm. >> And he just asked me, he says, "What do you need to tell me?" And so I told him about the drug addiction and I told him about the finances. >> Okay. >> But that was all I told him. >> Okay. Couple other just quick things. Um Ed Ericson. >> Yeah. >> You two never actually slept together. >> No. >> It [snorts] was all just texting. >> It was [cough] all texting. >> So it was just flirting. >> Absolutely. >> It was never anything physical? >> Absolutely not. >> Okay. >> Nothing physical ever. No. >> Okay. >> No. Um, so he and he knew nothing of any of this. He didn't >> Oh, no. No. >> Didn't say get rid of your husband. >> No, no, no. >> Nothing like that. So, he's not involved in this in any way. >> No, he's not. No, he's not. >> Okay. >> No. >> And that ex-boyfriend you had brought up too that >> Mhm. >> I mean, >> it's probably a way for me just to try to get some of the heat off of me, I guess. >> I mean, you didn't have consultation from anyone else or talk to anybody else these other names that were brought up at all? You didn't talk to them about this or they didn't give you ideas on it or anything? >> No, no, no. >> And we're just verifying that because if if we need to go talk to those people, we don't want to go talk to them if they're not involved in their >> No, no, nobody else was involved. No, it was just me. >> The the one other curious thing I do have is um the the when you did, you know, I understand you're in a panic at that point. >> This happened. Boom. Oh my god, what did I do? You know, you're in a panic. >> Is there any what what's the reason you went with the intruder? argument. Had you ever read about any other cases around this area like that or something or >> anything like that? There's not a like a movie or something. How why did that get in your head? It just seems weird. >> I don't know. >> Okay. >> I I don't know to be honest. Okay. >> I I honestly don't know. >> Okay. And that's fine. I just It's just something to me that's kind of a odd thing why that would be the >> I'm not sure, >> you know, and and it just Yeah. You know, it's a weird thing that popped in your head in that moment. That's what popped in your head. So, >> so go ahead. >> Oh, I was just going to say that uh maybe Mike and I would talk for a couple minutes outside too and then come in and anything else real quick. >> Sure. >> Go ahead. >> Great. Do you need anything else? Do you need another pop or >> This is fine. >> Sure. Cuz we can get something if you need something. Candy bar or anything like that? >> No. >> Sure. >> I can't eat. Okay. >> To be honest, thank you. Okay. Just just um couple quick clarifications. Okay. Um so you haven't talked to Brady at all? >> No. >> Okay. Did you you didn't try to call him or >> I did not try to call him. I told dad to tell him I loved him. I didn't know if hearing my voice would [snorts] >> make it worse. >> Yeah. I just didn't know at this point. So >> Okay. But you've got minutes on a phone card over there and everything. >> I can get a phone card from them whenever I need it. days. I know it sounds >> well. I just, you know, if you know, >> if you wanted to call them, you know, I just wanted to make sure that you're able to if that's if you're feeling sometimes talking to somebody that cares about you and that you care about >> will give you a little strength and you're going to need to to hang on to that right now. You know, >> um, and like I say, he's a good kid and he's going to be all right. >> He's a good kid. >> Um, you know, he's going to know that his mom made a mistake, but he's also going to know that his mom's a good person who told the truth, who's going to go forward telling the truth. and that his mom still loves him. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Did you know that I talked to him at the school about that girl that time? [clears throat] >> Lexi. >> And I'll never forget him with his honesty that day. >> You know, I think he was one of the first ones we talked to. And >> yeah, >> he was a great kid at that point. Even stood out in my mind and I forgot. So >> that's good. He was a good kid. >> Well, and I have been through a lot together. We just have a couple clarification things quick and we'll take take you back and and you can you can rest. >> You you said you woke up at 5:30. >> Did you had you been thinking about it at all for a while in bed like >> I got to I got to do this. I got to change my life. I got to >> I think I was at night when I was laying there wondering what could I do >> Mhm. >> to change my life and that's what I had thought about I guess. But okay. Do did it come into your mind at all when you guys were target practicing that day before when you asked him for help on the >> um >> it's just something that I had kind of wondered about too with >> Right. Yeah. Yes and no because I remember being appalled by think even thinking that But I guess I can't say no, it didn't. >> Do you remember, Jen? I mean, was it was that part of the reason you asked to shoot that day? That day before? >> No. No. [clears throat] No. That was something Jim was after me to do almost every day was to because he had just bought that and he's like, "You really need to start practicing with it." Um, so no, that that was >> that wasn't a purpose for shooting it that day or anything. [snorts] >> Okay. And and you really did wake up at 5:30. That's the right time. Y >> like you said from the beginning. >> Mhm. >> And so there wasn't a lot of time that passed between the time you woke up >> to the time it happened. >> To the time it happened, just minutes >> probably. And then from then to the time you called Y >> was just minutes literally. Right. Yep. >> Okay. >> Yep. >> Had you had you truly let the dog out before >> I did the >> incident? So, the dog was outside? >> The dog was outside. >> Did you start barking like crazy when the shot went off? >> I don't know. >> Okay. Cuz he's a hunting dog, so usually would that would >> He doesn't bark when when shots go off. >> Well, he doesn't. He's well trained. >> He's trained not to. Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. So, no, he wasn't. >> Jennifer says she woke up around 5:30 and only minutes later, Jim was dead. She also says she let the dog outside before it happened. That detail matters because the dog becomes another part of the story. Investigators have to check against what she originally told. >> I don't Everything went, you know, I usually wear earplugs and stuff. >> Mhm. >> And it happened just so quick. I just, you know, I did it and everything kind of went silent in my ears. >> Mhm. >> I don't remember hearing a lot or >> Mhm. because of the noise or just because of the situation in general. >> Gunshot in the house is very loud, >> right? I [clears throat] don't I'm not sure. I guess >> and it really didn't wake Brady up. I mean, a gunshot in the house. I mean, he must be a sound sleeper, too. >> That and I suppose because the door was shut between the basement and upstairs. >> Okay. >> And we're over here and he's way down over there. >> Yeah. Okay. >> He's a pretty sound sleeper, too. >> Okay. Brady was not involved. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> I believe you. >> Oh, yeah. [clears throat] I believe you. >> I'm glad and I believe you. >> So, I mean, >> you're a bad parent. I know that right now, but I'm not that bad of a parent. >> You You've been a wonderful parent to him. And that's >> I would never do that. Well, [snorts] Jen, you've been a wonderful parent to Brady. And you know what? Right here, as hard as this is, and you choosing to do this, is more of you trying to do right by him. It's not trying to do right necessarily by you. Well, it is by you, too, cuz you're trying to be honest and >> show that you are the right. I mean, I can't bring him back, but I need to make this right. Mhm. >> Somewhat. Mhm. Yeah. >> Well, and and know those are, you know, you have you, [cough] you know, you owe some people some apologies. >> Yes. >> Whether or not they'll be able to forgive you, I can't speak for them. But, but, you know, that's something that you're going to have to do at some point, >> whether it's in writing or whether it's, you know, verbally or how you can do that. I don't, you know, >> um, that's something for you to work out, too. And again, you can't control how they will react or whatever, but you can just control you >> and do do your thing. The the last thing, unless you have something else, Paul, >> well, do you remember how long I mean, you said that how long did it take before we came over to talk to you because you had apparently told one of the jailers, too, that did we keep you waiting a long time >> before we got up here? >> Today? He means today. >> Do you remember who you talked to over there or anything or what you told them or anything? the gal I just asked if she could get a hold of you and then I said your name too. And >> was it Stacy over in the jail? >> I can't remember. >> Stacy a sergeant. That's >> I think so. She's got the Yeah. Yeah. Then it was her because I was sitting watching TV and she said um Ouch. >> And she said um that Yeah, I got a hold of I She said she knew who you were. She wasn't quite sure who you were but and so she says I'll call him. And then as I was sitting with her watching TV, she said I called his other phone too and left him a message. So, no, it wasn't very long >> because remember we talked on the phone the other day and um and I had mentioned to you I didn't want to get in trouble about, you know, initiating stuff with you or anything. And uh >> Right. Very for the record, very clearly. >> Mhm. >> This was your choice of your own doing today? >> Yes. I asked you both to come in. Okay. >> Or I asked you Yeah. And I had asked for you at first. I thought she was only going to be able to get you to come in. But >> But you wanted to speak to us investigators about this matter. >> Yes. >> Nobody twisted your arm or tricked you or coerced you or anything like that when we came in. I read your rights. >> Yes. >> You understood them. You're in clear mind today. >> I am. >> You're not been using any drugs today? >> Absolutely not. Jennifer has finally told them what happened, but the case isn't over. The detectives still have evidence to deal with the I hope they have so you after having read your chose to speak with us. >> Okay. And the only thing that we've promised you is that we would be fair about the truth in your story. That we wouldn't twist things that you said. Correct. >> And be truthless. We've not made any other promises to you or anything like that. >> No. >> Okay. I just want to have that clear so we're all on the same page on that that you were the one who said get them guys in here. I want to talk to them. >> I want that cuz that's I want that to show that you're the one who initiated of your own will. >> I did. >> So, >> are you glad you talked to us? >> I am. >> I know this is >> I do feel a little bit like a little weight has been lifted. I don't feel good about it, but I mean I feel good that I've just told the truth. >> Yeah. And and what that shows, Jen, is that you are still a good person. Okay? Because if if you didn't care, if you didn't feel bad, you wouldn't care. You know what I mean? But it shows you care about this, you've been feeling bad ever since it happened. And I I know in the car yesterday when I was looking at you and you're your eyes are tearing up and and you were nodding your head at me cuz you know that you feel bad, you know? I mean, I I you know, I've talked to people who don't feel bad before about doing terrible things and you're not like that at all. Okay? You're not. You You do. And that's obvious to Paul and obvious to to me, okay? That you have a conscience that you do feel bad that you want to make it right. Okay. >> As best I can. >> As best. >> Okay. Is there anything else that we could do for you right now? I mean, we can get you back there to try to let you get some rest and stuff and >> Yeah, I think that'd be great. I just like to go back there. >> Okay. >> And you've gotten a hold of us. you know, you can you can get a hold of of us again, too. You know, something >> and and that's the thing I would reiterate there. Something may pop in your head that you forgot that you think is important that you want on the record. You want the prosecutor to know, um, whatever. Please don't be afraid to tell them, "Hey, I need to talk to Mike or Paul. Get them in here, you know, or get a hold of them, please, and we will come in directly to speak." >> I just want my family and their family to know that I'm sorry. >> Okay. and I can't make it go away. [snorts] >> If if if I have an opportunity to speak with with um with Jim's family, would you like me to relay that message to them that you're sorry? >> I do. >> Okay. I I will do that. >> It won't help, but >> that may or may not be you may be right, but I if you want me to relay that message to them, I will. [snorts] >> Be nice. Thank you. >> Okay. Thank you guys. >> Thank you. >> Yep. >> I know. >> What do you see? Look closely at Jennifer's story. Do you believe everything she's telling the detectives or is she leaving something out? What do you think really happened that night? Drop your theory in the comments. And if you want more interrogation breakdowns, hidden details, and psychological analysis, subscribe to Verdict Interrogation for more.