I know. I know. >> I know what it looks like. >> If you would put put yourself >> I would too. >> Put yourself in my Just just arrest me. >> You know, >> just arrest me now. >> It doesn't It doesn't make sense. >> Just arrest me now. >> Early 2015, a young woman is found beaten and suffocated [music] in a field outside Cleveland. Her own mother is the one who identifies the body. But two weeks later, that same mother is sitting across from homicide detectives. And before they can even accuse her, she says, "Or just arrest me. Arrest me now." Why would a mother say that? Because detectives already knew. Re never left that house. >> We pulled uh like any police department, any reports and stuff like that. We pulled uh to see, you know, what we do is we we do what's called a [snorts] a profile. We try to to uh profile the victim, you know, of a crime and and get a history and and everything that she's like. And I and I saw that there were several dealings, >> especially with Lakewood. And [snorts] [laughter] >> um Nicholson. >> Oh, yeah. Most of them right there at Nicholson. I think all of them. [clears throat and cough] >> Well, did she did um did Shelley call the police like back in the fall or last year? something about you ended up leaving the house or something like that. Was that something that you remember >> why I left the house? >> Yeah, she called and then I guess you guys had got in an argument or there was some kind of argument and then she called back and said, "Oh, never mind. My mom left." Or something like that. Do you remember she called the police on you on that? >> Oh, I bet you I bet you. Well, here's the piece that comes to mind is that that's when she attacked me. >> Okay. when I worked, [music] this is what it may have been, is when I worked as a um teachers aid, an educational aid over at um uh Hayes for 5 years. Um there was a time then I'd come home at lunchtime and you know after the morning thing and I was going to fill in for a teacher be a substitute for the afternoon but she ended up for whatever reason attacking me pulling my hair and locked me out of the house. Um, so I call I had to call my teach the teacher >> Mhm. [clears throat] >> Uh, Chris Porachonssky to tell her I I'm so sorry, but I cannot be there to fill in for you because Bennett's in the house with Relle right now and um she locked me out of the house and attacked me. So I think that might have been, but I didn't make any phone calls, but I think she may have called. [clears throat] No, I just, you know, I >> because what happened is I think she called back and basically said disregard. So, did the police ever come down there? >> No. >> Okay. >> No. >> Okay. So, I think that's >> No, that could have been it. That's the piece that if you're saying it was in the fall a year or two ago, >> that could 14. I'm not sure. But I I >> There was a lot of uh >> No, cuz I didn't work in 14. And that might have not been the >> because there there were a lot of um you know I guess you know there were some people that she hung around with that were ripping you off the one time at the like an apartment >> we're still uh >> was it Hannah's guitar >> Megan's yeah >> or Megan's and then the guy hid in the bushes and >> all that stuff but that was someone that >> um Shel had hung around with >> at the time one of the lovelies at that time and there's always been the lovelies. All right. And so, >> yeah. >> Were there any other incidents recently that you know, even though police weren't involved, but where I know you were telling me before about uh um the chair incident? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. What happened with that? I know. I know. We didn't have a lot of time to >> Well, I think what happened is she fell through it a little bit. It was starting to go. She was >> She was sitting in the chair. Yeah. But it was not a good day up and then that was just another piece that she was playing the Thomas matching game at the table with Bennett. I think she started to fall through it but it stopped. It didn't she didn't fall and she freaked. She threw the chair, knocked his workbench, broke the chair. >> Uhhuh. >> Then threw the what's left of the chair onto the lawn. Bennett started crying through it all cuz his workbench was down. Yeah. >> Um, >> and was that is that common? >> Was that common behavior >> since she started going the No, no, not the throwing of things and and you know, not too much in front of Benny. She would do different things. She would be erratic and a little violent with me at times. Knock my coffee out of my hands. >> Oh, really? >> Yeah. Janet suddenly tells detectives, "Just arrest me." Now, that sounds like surrender, but psychologically can also be a way of trying to control what happens next. Instead of waiting for detectives to corner her, she jumps ahead of them. But the real question is, what does she already realize they know? >> Wasn't >> I wasn't home at the time. >> I've never ripped a door off. I take that back when we've done taken the door off, but >> you got to use some force. Jeez, he was he was strong, [clears throat] >> you know. But >> so what day was that when uh you said it was not a good day? >> That whole week was not good. >> Okay. That was when she had come back from >> from Tommy's that prior. >> Okay. >> She I picked her up that Tuesday morning. She missed a dose of the medication and she stayed probably a day too long >> of the circle. >> Yeah. >> Okay. [snorts] >> 800 milligrams. >> All right. And so that Thursday was when the chair throwing >> anger. What time was that? Was that during the day or was that at night? >> Um, I'd say it was probably in the early evening before dinner. Probably around 4 5 or 5. [snorts] >> Okay. Yeah. And then what happened? >> Benny cried. He's at the table. I said, "Benned, it's okay, hun. Just just relax. It's okay." She got her coat on and walked out to have a cigarette, I think. Or black and mild. >> A black and mild. >> Mhm. >> Is that what she >> She smoked black and >> Okay. Yeah. >> Did she have any patches? Did she nicotine patches or anything like that? >> I think she tried it once or twice. I think Tommy gave her one maybe. >> Okay. How long ago was that? >> I don't remember. >> Okay. >> I don't know. All right. >> I think. >> All right. >> Um but she still smoked. Mhm. >> Just >> on top of the patches, >> I think. So, yeah. >> Rush, I guess. >> Um, so then she Let's see. Huh? >> Let me think. What were we saying? >> So, you said that was so >> That was Thursday night. >> Yeah, that was Thursday evening. >> Um, so you know, you just kind of I I calm Betty down. We breathe. You know, she's out having her smoke. Just let her be. Deescalate. She came back in. I didn't say a word. Got to kind of wait, you know. Um, >> so that so that I mean you you're used to that. You know how to handle >> Yeah. This has been my life. >> Yeah. >> My mother was this way. >> Your mother was >> this like this >> like like Shelly was. >> Yes. But I was raised primarily by my grandmother and my grandfather. >> Okay. >> Um I've dealt with this my whole life as I majored in psychology. I tried to learn more about it. Mhm. >> was in social work for a while. Um Yeah. But but now Bettyy's seeing it. >> Yeah. >> Now Benny's seeing this. >> So you you're just you're trying to break the cycle. >> Well, I mean that would be I I told the officers we know what we've been through. When when when Detective West came back the second time, I let him look through the house with Randall Young. He said, "How are your sisters handling this?" I said, "There, you know that honestly, we're trying to make lemon lemonade out of lemons here and we know that Bennett is better off." So, when you talk about the cycle, if there's anything that positive that has come out of this, that's it. Well, [clears throat] I mean, okay. Well, the reason why, and remember I told you we we were going to go through the computer and the phones and everything and try to, you know, try to form a timeline here. >> Mhm. >> Okay. We have reason to believe that Shelly never left the house. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Mhm. >> So, we know that something happened. >> Okay. >> We know that something happened at the house. >> Okay. What do you think? What what do you >> well believe >> that's remember I told you we do you know if you watch CSI and all that stuff we I mean we we do everything possible >> you know and we try to confirm and and >> we try to check out what people tell us and stuff like that >> and u you know and and as part of that we like I said we do the history we do the >> you know we pull videotape you know there's there's houses and stuff that have video and they can tell whether you know if there's activity and stuff like that with businesses. I mean we've been scouring I mean you have to understand this has been what two weeks. >> Oh you have I'm no doubt >> and um we've come to the conclusion that something happened at the house. >> Okay. >> Do you have >> And that's why >> that's why I want to talk to you. Well and that's why I want to talk to you. you know, nothing. >> I mean, we >> like I said, and and come to understand and come to understand, Janet, is that >> we we do a history and I told you a profile is what it is. >> Well, I know I'm probably suspect number one. >> Well, I said, >> well, the and and like I said, >> at first, Janet was simply a mother trying to help police identify her daughter's body. But as detectives started putting the pieces together, something about Janet's story began to fall apart. And then during the interrogation, she suddenly said, "We'll just arrest me now." Her daughter, Shel, had been found beaten and suffocated in a field outside Cleveland. [music] Janet was the one who identified her body, but detectives were beginning to believe Shel never left the [music] house alive. Now, Janet had to explain what really happened that night. You are you are his world. And um you know when you see him get hurt that hurts you, >> doesn't it? >> Oh, of course. >> You know, when you see him hurt his mom, too. She didn't know realize what she's doing when she's not rational. >> Right. And and and that's the theme I've gotten too is that a lot of times >> to hide it. I'm not sugar. >> No. And I understand >> it has not been easy with her. But I didn't I had I didn't do anything to her. >> I emphatically deny this has been this is nothing new with Shelly. >> Well, I understand that. But I also understand too that this was not what happened to Shel was not a a calculated, you know, what we say a a premeditated homicide. >> You know what we know, and like I said, this is based on the evidence. What we know is that this whatever happened to Shelly, this was done >> in a either in an anger, a fit of rage or passion. >> Um what they call a crime of passion, whether it's love, >> hate, um anger and stuff. So we know >> what what happened to her, where she was placed, you know, after she had died. It was not it was not done by somebody who was cold calculating um you know, knew what they were doing. Mhm. >> What what it >> what the evidence tells us is that what happened to Shelly was one at the house. There was something at the house that happened >> and she didn't leave that night. >> And number two, >> number two that it had to be someone that was close to her that knew her. >> Okay, this wasn't a stranger that she met because we pulled the internet history, >> we pulled the websites, we pulled all that stuff, right? >> She was not meeting anybody. Well, what if it was planned prior to what if she planned it earlier when she was on the phone in the internet? >> Who? >> Michelle. >> Well, like I said, we would have we would have we would have gotten that. >> What evidence are you able to share with me? You're saying you found evidence? >> Well, >> what is that evidence? >> That's what I've been waiting to hear, >> Jan. The evidence is is that we know something happened at the house, >> but you can't tell me concretely. >> Well, I Like I said, I can't. >> Your your hunch is >> No, it's not a hunch. I Janet, listen. I know your your your mother. I have a daughter. I have two daughters, okay? >> And and you know, I wouldn't I wouldn't bring a mother in here that's just lost a daughter. >> And and [clears throat] tell them on a hunch that we think something happened at the house. You know what I mean? I wouldn't do that because I wouldn't want to put you through the, you know, through the grief, >> you know, >> but like I said, unfortunately, we try, we try to we try to clear people. We try to, >> right? >> You know, and and >> well, that's what the search warrant will to do. >> Correct. And that's what we're, you know, >> clear me. I've given you full access. >> I And I understand that. >> Look, I haven't even touched anything. >> I appreciate that. But but like I said, Janet, the problem is is that we can't we can't prove what you've told us as far as her leaving the house. >> You can't prove it. But that doesn't mean I killed her in my house. >> Well, and like I said, I >> I don't know how it how that went down. >> Well, the problem is is too, >> you know, when when I first talked to you >> Mhm. >> Um you never asked me what happened. I got it from the news. >> But there the news doesn't give you everything. All it says is that she was found, you know. >> No, they said I got everything from the news. >> What did they say? >> The all that I knew you were just starting your How would you know what happened? >> How would they report any of that on the news? >> I understand that. Listen, I don't I'm not talking to you like I like you're >> I know you're I'm waiting to hear what happened. >> I'm waiting to hear I'm waiting to hear what what number one what you you found so far. >> Well, the issue is to >> I know you don't >> she didn't leave the house. We We know she didn't leave the house because she didn't take her purse. She didn't take >> her medicine. If I if she Why the hell would I keep her freaking purse there? J. Well, I'm just telling you. I'm just telling you. I don't know. I don't know why. And that's why I said this isn't this wasn't a pre-calculated, you know what I mean? Like you you didn't read all these books on how to get rid of a body and and all this stuff. You know what I'm saying? That's what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that people listen, I've been doing this job for 22 years. >> Do you have something where her body was >> listen to me listen? I've been doing this job for 22 years. I'm not and I've seen >> I know you you probably know what you're doing >> and I've seen well listen I've seen a lot of good people make mistakes. I've seen a lot of good mothers make mistakes. I've seen a lot of good fathers make mistakes that that are completely aberition to what they are and who they are. >> Now I know you're >> you are a caring person. You you are the caretaker. Am I correct >> when it comes to Bennett? I mean, >> um, yeah, pretty much. >> You're the caretaker. >> You're the person that keeps You're the glue. >> You're the glue of the family. >> Pretty much. >> You've been the glue in Shel's life >> ever since her father passed away. >> Since she was born. >> Yeah. And since her father passed away. Right. And I know you've had to deal with her lying and her manipulating and her >> impulsivism and her >> basically caring about Shelly. >> Mhm. >> And not caring about Bennett or caring about Janet >> or Hannah or Megan. >> And I know you're saying any this is not untrue. >> Nothing nothing new, right? >> That's all true. And and listen, like I said, I've seen strong people who have been the glue of a family and and usually it is the mom. Usually it is mom. Mom, you know, dad's abusive or dad's a drunk, you know, and and but this time it's the daughter, you know, who basically holds the family hostage, you know, and I've seen, you know, moms just, >> you know, finally say, you know what, enough is enough. >> Oh, I'm sure. >> You know, enough is enough. we've been through this. >> It wasn't like that for me, though. >> Well, and then I understand there was some discussion about getting custody of Ben. >> That was part of the reason >> that things were off that day. >> Mhm. >> And she told you what? >> Um, no. >> She was dead set against it. >> As a matter of fact, was she planning on trying to move in with Tommy? Um, I think that might have been in the works cuz he had some money from a dead person that he was he had money coming. >> Mhm. >> Um, but she knew No, I don't I don't think for sure she was going to move in and she knew she couldn't take Benny. She knew that. Not with Tommy. >> But who has custody of that? Um, well, it's never been taken taken from her, >> right? >> I've never taken it. >> So, if she wanted to, she could up and leave and take >> Oh, sure. Legally, sure. >> You know, >> of course. But it then I think she knew though. She it, you know, she wouldn't want that responsibility 24/7. >> No. >> Yeah. >> And neither did Tommy. >> No. >> Tommy didn't want to be bothered. >> Oh my god. No. >> I mean, what? He spends maybe a couple hours of of if that. If that >> you know >> how many years did he go without even seeing >> Yeah. >> a little bit >> full four. Yeah. >> Okay. >> Or more. >> So >> four and a half. >> When when you tell me and like I said, [clears throat] you know, I I know I know you've been cooperative. I know you've >> you know you've you've been you've been up front. >> P. Let's just cut to the chase here. Dear God. >> The detectives slowly remove every possible escape route. They establish that Re wasn't meeting anyone, once kept communicating with anyone, and apparently never left the house. Janet is now facing a dangerous gap between what she says happened and what the evidence suggests. And then detectives narrow it down to one unavoidable question. What happened inside that house? >> This is when I was doing caregiving. Um this would have been that's been uh September Octoberish >> of this past year. >> Yeah. Of 14. Yeah. >> So So she you know it's just that stuff the the not thinking stuff. >> Irrational. >> Irrational. It's just unsafe and meeting people at the playgrounds and stuff when he's running around and you just connect with whoever and your best buddies. >> Well, I mean like I said we've gone through the computer. We know she friends strangers and right because they look cool. You know what I mean? >> Right. Or they connect somehow. >> Very very dangerous. Very dangerous. >> That's what I mean. >> Um and then you said uh did you tell Detective West that you did take a life insurance policy out on? Okay. >> Yes, we both did. She she was of you know she she and I >> Uhhuh. >> Um took it out almost two years ago. >> And what was the purpose of that? Well, I you know, because I didn't have life insurance on D. I knew I was the, you know, I'm the one that got the thought in my head that Jesus Christ, I'm the primary caregiver here. There, what if something happens to her, which it could very well do because she's accidentrone? Um, and and just careless and meeting whoever and and you know, I'm thinking we got to get something. So, I convinced her, we got to do this. So, you went together and got it or >> um it was one of those things that just come in the mail. >> Oh, okay. >> The globe life. >> Okay. >> So, I'm like, Shel, this is a good idea to have um let's do this uh for Benny, you know. >> So, she never she never used drugs at the house, you said. Never smoked no pot or anything at the house? >> No. >> Not in a room or anything like that? >> No. No. No. No. >> No. What? >> What about strange men at the house? I would say no. No. >> Would Benny know this? >> Um, one time when I took Hannah to a volleyball thing, she had a guy in >> Hannah did. >> No. >> Oh, >> when I took Hannie down to Kentucky for a volleyball tournament, she had a guy in the house. Yeah. When I wasn't there. >> Was that a rule that she wasn't allowed to have guys in the house? >> Yeah. No. No. She She I would say no. She >> Was she pretty good about that with Benny? like not seen a parade of guys coming into her life or parade of guys or no didn't really >> see >> she had no care about that >> came up on her cuz I would always pick them up. So one time at Lakewood Park, there she is. He's playing, you know, and there she is with some guy that she just freaking meant her her capri, you know, you could see her the crack and everything and her shirt was up. I don't think they she was just kind of hanging on, you know, and it's like, >> right, >> this was probably a year ago last summer. Um, >> what about hang up phone calls at the house? >> Say one more time. >> Hang up phone calls at the house. >> Hang up. Did you do you have a a landline? >> I got that disconnected because we never used it probably about four years ago. >> Well, you guys shared a phone, right? >> We shared a phone for the last three months. She lost it again. >> Hang up calls to you. >> Oh, yeah. Oh, god. I got all the credit cards. Those are my credit card calls. If you're looking at calls. >> No, no, no, no, no. I'm saying like uh uh someone some strange guy's calling the house and you answer the phone. Click. >> Oh. Um >> or so >> there's some weird ones coming in. There's been some weird ones coming in lately >> where where he's like his beat there. It could have just been a wrong number. It could have just been a wrong number. >> Well, did Chel ever hide the fact that she was meeting other guys or anything like that from you? >> Um see I don't really know what. Well, I mean, did she I mean, if if she asked you for rights, because here's the other thing, too, is obviously Shel was dependent on you. >> Mhm. >> to to take her place. >> Oh, yeah. Sure. Or she'd get picked up. >> Or she'd get picked up. >> Sure. >> Now, have you ever taken her to a guy that she's met or a place like other than Tommy? >> Oh, yeah. Oh, god. Yeah. Over the years. Sure. >> What about recently? >> Sure. Um, Brandon would be the most recent probably. Um, and then there's stuff where she just walks places. >> And where was Brandon at? >> Um, he's the he [snorts] was her last boyfriend. Long term longer term. >> Avon. Brandon Smith. >> Is that the the the black guy that lives with Chester? >> I don't know. Um, in those >> section A housing. >> Yeah. Yeah. Okay. >> Yeah. [snorts] >> Yeah. >> You said I would take her there all the time. You said it's Eva. >> Yeah. >> So, I would take her out there. >> When was the last time you took her out there? >> Now, the interrogation becomes more physical and specific. Detectives bring up the purse, medication, the condition of the house, and the possibility of an altercation. They aren't simply accusing Janet. They were watching how she reacts when ordinary details begin connecting to something much darker. And as those details pile up, detectives start giving her a way to explain it before the evidence explains it for her. >> But you never took her to go meet anybody else. >> I think no. No. >> Did Tommy think that they were exclusive? >> I don't know what [clears throat] he thought, but >> was he a jealous guy? He told me once that she would tell him that she has other boyfriends and stuff. >> Did it get him jealous or >> I don't know >> the truth. >> I think he I don't know how he felt. I don't really know. I think he he would still stay with her. You know, I don't know if he had other when she wasn't there if he had other people. >> There's a huge age difference between the two. >> She always Well, usually went for the older guys. So what yeah what would she tell you about her feelings for Tommy? >> Um it it just it would go like this. >> Did she ever confide in you and say >> she liked being there? >> I think I'm in love with him or I want to be with him or >> um I always overheard her say love you. Love you. Love you. She never she never told you like, "Mom, I think I'm in love with this guy or I think >> I just want to be with him." And >> No. No. In fact, she would say, "Jesus, I don't." >> So, she always go back. >> Let me just ask you real quick again about the putting the the her stuff in that bag. >> Okay. >> And and how did you what what prompted you to do that? >> Well, when I went downstairs in the morning, >> Mhm. I saw all her stuff there. Her purse and then >> where >> on the you know in my kitchen how that one part comes out. That's where she always put her purse. >> Okay. So it was in the kitchen. >> Y >> What about her makeup bag? >> Um and then her pillow was in there too. It was right next to her purse which was odd. >> But the pillow wasn't in the bag. >> No, I didn't take her. She She w I don't know. She would have walked downstairs with her pillow. >> Well, where's the pillow at? that's up in her room. I took it back up to her room. >> Yeah. It was sitting right by her purse, the pillow she sleeps with. [snorts] >> So, you threw the purse. >> So, I put the purse in um the makeup bag. Um her coat, the the latest coat she came home with. >> Um which wasn't her usual coat. >> And when did she tell you to do that? >> And and her hat. Well, when she said, "Tommy's picking me up." When I heard that, I thought I heard her say, "Just just pack my up." I think I think she said it because in my mind I heard heard it because I saw the stuff all her stuff there the next day. >> So, I then I packed [clears throat] it in that bag thinking that, okay, well, he'll probably be back today, tomorrow, because she's never without a purse at his house. That's that's very rare. Um, so I fig, okay, they'll be back or she'll be calling me to take it. >> And then I put it to the side. I forgot about it. I honestly forgot, you know, I would have >> Where did And where did you put it aside at? >> Um, right there by the makeup, you know, in that by the back door area. >> And then when the detective said, "Does she have a a wallet or a purse?" I said, "Oh, yeah." you know. So I got it. >> So she >> can you understand? >> Yeah. >> Janet, >> I know. I know. >> I know what it looks like. >> If you would put put yourself >> I would too. >> Put yourself in my Just just arrest me, you know. >> Just arrest me now. >> It doesn't it doesn't make sense. >> Just arrest me now. I know. If you don't have anything on anyone else that you can't, then I know I look like it. I've I know I do. >> But you know what I mean? Like it >> she doesn't didn't have her stuff. >> Her pillows pillars pillows downstairs, >> right? So she would have walked down. >> It wasn't on the bed. >> No idea. Did she >> I have no idea. >> I mean, do you understand? >> I can't explain it. >> I mean, we're >> I can't explain it. when when you look at, you know, uh, you know, what we do for a living. You know, >> we're very analytical. Yeah. >> You know, that's what we do. We try to >> we look at things and say, "What makes sense?" And anytime, you know, we've had female officers that are involved and and they'll say, "She didn't bring her purse. She was leaving the house and she didn't bring her purse." They're like, "Well, here's the thing. Something happened at that house." And remember what I told you. If I would have done something to Relle, >> okay, at that house, why in the hell would I have left all herit there? >> Well, the thing is, >> why would I have left it there? >> The thing is, who would be who would be the last person that, you know, police would talk to, you know, or immediately think or or suspect something was wrong, you know, >> who's the last person, you think? >> No. Well, not I wouldn't say the last person, but at the time, you know, you police aren't saying, well, you know, mom called her called in and identified, you know, Michelle, and you, like I said, our job was over there to try to get some information and piece together where she was at and stuff like that. So, you know, we don't think anything of, >> you know, until we start looking and saying, "Okay, wait a second here." you know, something's not something's not right. >> Okay? >> You know, not to say that you're not, you know what I mean? Like you're great. >> I know. >> You know, you're just great. And uh >> not to say like something was wrong with you, but >> we say, "Well, why, >> you know, why um why is her stuff packed up?" And and you say, "Okay, well, she you thought you heard her say, you know, pack my stuff." again, I'm, >> you know, >> half asleep and I know she's up moving around, >> right? But then we say, well, we also have to look at the body of evidence, you know, body of evidence is that >> um everything's telling us that she was at that house, >> okay? you know, from the scene, everything's telling us that, you know, there's there's stuff and and I think Detective West told you this, you know, whenever you go somewhere >> Mhm. >> you leave something >> Yeah. >> and and you take something with you. >> Sure. >> You know what I mean? So, wherever you're at >> Yeah. >> You know, like for instance, here >> Yeah. >> You know, they're going to find my DNA on this. >> Sure. >> You know what I mean? They're going to find, you know, maybe my thinning hair is falling out, you know, as we speak, you know, and uh they're going to find my hair in here, you know what I mean? But I'm also going to take probably some stuff that other people were in here >> um with me when I go somewhere. I'm going to take evidence that I was here, >> you know? And so when we look at what we gathered at the scene, >> okay, >> we say, okay, is there evidence that she was somewhere else? Is there evidence that she was taken somewhere else? >> Right. >> Well, we know she was wrapped in a sheet. Oh, okay. >> We know she was wrapped in a sheet. >> Okay. >> And then we come to your house and what do we find? >> Yeah. >> In her room. >> Okay. >> What do we find? >> Jesus Christ. No sheets. >> No sheets. >> Jesus Christ. I see what you mean. >> We know that there was blood flow from her from her head. >> Okay. >> And what do we find in a room? >> No. >> No pillow. Okay. >> Okay. >> Do you understand? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> So, you know, I'm trying to I'm trying to give you, >> you know [snorts] what I mean? This is kind of a two-way street here. >> You know, I'm trying to be I'm trying to be upfront with you and I'm asking you >> Jesus. >> You know what I mean? I'm asking you to be upfront with me. >> Yeah. You know, I'm giving you >> We didn't always have sheets on that bed, >> but we know she >> But we know she was wrapped in a sheet. >> Okay. >> We know it. >> Okay. Detectives shift tactics and introduce the idea of a crime of passion, a mistake made during an emotional confrontation. This gives Janet a psychological exit. She doesn't necessarily have to see herself as a calculated killer to start telling the truth. But this is also pressure disguised as understanding. The detectives are essentially saying, "If there's a version of this you can explain, now is the time." >> False. Uh Daryl Tyveri. >> Daryl. >> Yeah. Yeah, >> I remember him. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> How long ago did he pass? >> Uh, he passed in um >> 15 years ago. >> Bingo. Yeah. >> Was 15 years. >> Yeah. >> August 24th, 99. >> Yeah. >> Are you kidding me? >> No. >> That's my daughter's birthday. >> Oh, God. Love her. >> Yep. >> Wow. >> August 24th, 1999. >> What? >> Yep. >> Oh, Jesus Christ. [laughter] >> What? That is just >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Do you remember what time she was born? Uh, don't tell my wife because I can't remember. >> That's okay. He he passed away at just at just after the 23rd, 12:15. >> Okay. And now she was born like maybe 6:00 or 7 in the morning. >> Oh, okay. >> So later. >> Yeah. [snorts] >> Wow. >> Well, that's why I know you're a good man. >> That's something we Janet. I think you I think you're a good lady. >> I could tell when he walked in like I like that guy. I think Daryl would agree with us that uh everybody makes mistakes and that >> Oh, you're you're >> absolutely he made plenty. >> And the man upstairs made plenty. >> Uh >> and so have I. >> Yeah. >> And agree with me or not that you would be judged on what you do to make things right versus what you do that made things wrong. >> Absolutely. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And that goes along with what we're saying as far as you show me your cards and I'll show you mine. >> Because when [snorts] you're reactive >> to evidence versus being proactive and getting out in front of it >> Yeah. and admitting the mistakes, it looks better for you or it looks better for whomever versus waiting for things to come in and then >> you know like phone records and DNA and that stuff. That's like concrete stuff. >> Yeah, >> that stuff you can't >> Yeah, you can't dispute that. >> You can't dispute that stuff. I [snorts] mean, and and again, like you said, you want to help out as much as you can in order to find the person that did this. And we want very much to find out [snorts] >> who did this to show it. >> Yeah. [clears throat] >> And we're not going to stop until we >> Oh, I I don't think you would would ever stop. I know you will get to the bottom of this. I know it. >> And forensic evidence doesn't lie. I mean, it's I know, >> you know, just like I know >> just like, you know, when you look into a car and you look with the naked eye, you really don't see much. Especially if somebody's had a chance to clean things up, >> but when you start throwing around years and years of proven chemicals and stuff like that, >> sure, >> you start to see stuff, >> of course, >> especially that I mean, you see it all the time that it starts to prove theory. It starts to show the path that someone takes. And I can understand the defensive position where you're like, look, I didn't do anything. You know, you got everything bottled up and like I didn't do anything. I This is >> some of the stuff that I told you is a lot of stuff that's, you know, really shouldn't be. >> You only told me one thing for sure. But I'm just telling you is that we know we know [snorts] what happened happened to Shel at the house >> and right now like I said you've been you've been cooperative with us and I want you to continue to be cooperative with us all the way to the end. You know what I mean? You ever you ever you know like they cooper people you know people cooperate cooperate cooperate they get to that you know and they don't that hurdle they don't know if they want to cross it because they know there's you know this is it you know we're going to go plunge full in you know this is it I got to go all the way it's now or never you know and that's what we're trying to tell you is that >> begins pulling back she threatens to stop talking comes less cooperative then returns to answering questions that push and pull matters because detectives are testing whether resistance will protect her story or make it look weaker. They return to the details of the purse and what happened inside the home. But beneath those questions, he's searching for the moment her story finally breaks. >> Give us a list a little bit more to give us. And you had a chance to speak with your attorney. >> Right. I have to have representation. >> Could you do that? Could you do that today? Could you speak with that person today? >> Well, I don't know who I'd pick as my attorney. I I don't know if I can afford one. I don't know who. >> Do you have someone in mind that or maybe that you that your husband knew that Daryl knew? >> Yeah, but I'm not sure about those guys. >> No, >> I'm not sure they'd be on my side. >> Yeah, I don't know about that. >> Well, you you say that you you don't have any more, but there is more. >> So, maybe in in in what more what? >> The polygraph. >> Do say it. >> You say you say that you don't have any more to give. I've got no one more information. >> What I'm saying but I'm saying is that there is one more thing to give. >> Oh, what's that? >> The polygraph. >> I'd like to >> I want to >> Right. And I know you just said but I I I guess my question is would you be willing to maybe at least >> talk about that? speak to an attorney >> when >> in order to maybe facilitate that today >> in order to take the polygraph today like [snorts] within the next couple hours >> my attorney can't be some guy here connected to Lakewood or >> we can't dress a guy up in a suit and say here's your attorney [snorts] [laughter] >> turnpike turnpike >> and where do you get her up. Um, typically the turnpike >> and what exit do you get off of the turnpike? >> Overland. >> There's no overland exit. >> Yeah. >> Which is >> um I picked her up on the 14th in the afternoon. Yeah. >> To come home to look at >> There's an overland exit on the turnpike. >> Um Yeah. Right off the Overland off the turnpike. Sure. [snorts] >> And then and then which route do you go? >> Uh down that 57 it would be. Oh, okay. So, you take the turnpike to 57. >> Yeah, just that first turn first exit. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> So, [snorts] there wouldn't be any reason that they would red plate coming off of uh onto Lorraine Road there. >> Lorraine Road. >> Mhm. Like Northstead, North Ridgeville. >> Lorraine Road. >> There's like McDonald's Sheets. >> Um I don't No, I don't know. I don't think so. I don't recall where that is. McDonald's and Sheets is where in North Ridgeville. >> Yeah, it's on the Rain Road. >> No, no, >> but that's Saturday. What time? Saturday. [snorts] >> Uh afternoonish, early afternoon. Pick him up. >> And where did you bring her? >> Uh to the house. and yeah, she hung out and we did some uh um uh looking for summer internship stuff or >> on a computer, >> I pretty sure. Yeah, it was on the computer. >> Um or on her laptop. I can't remember what she did. But we just uh did some, you know, usual stuff. Hung out. got her some gonna take some clothes back. Um, >> and when did you pack up um Shel's stuff? >> Um, that probably would have been on when I came down on the 13th and saw it there. >> About when? >> That that morning >> when I was going to take Benny to school. >> About what time? >> Um, what time would have that been? >> [snorts] >> 8 8 8 a.m. But I don't know if I packed it up then. That's when I saw it. When I uh that would have been around when I saw it. Um >> when did you pack it up? >> When I packed it up. Let's see. Um probably that afternoon. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Was anybody in the house with you when you packed it up? [sighs and gasps] Well, Benny would have been there. He might have been watching TV. >> Okay. >> But Hannah Hannah hadn't been home yet. >> Oh, no. >> So, you went and picked up Hannah? >> Yes. >> She came home that Saturday. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> For a little. >> And so that Saturday you were in Lorraine County in the late afternoon. >> Yep. >> About what time? Uh early afternoon. Early afternoon. >> About what time? >> Um 2 2:30ish probably. Yeah. >> And so did anybody travel with you out? >> And Hannah would know. You can ask. She'll know more about that. >> When you went to go pick her up. >> Yeah. Yeah. She would know. >> Did you stop anywhere along the way >> to go get her? >> Don't think so. Don't think so. >> So, you got on the turnpike? >> I think I think that's that's that's >> Well, I mean >> I mean I'm trying to think. >> When you normally go pick up Hannah, where did you go? >> Yeah, I on the turnpike >> would have been. >> All right. So, you went on the turnpike? >> Mhm. >> You didn't get off at any of the other exits. >> Um I don't think so. No. >> Okay. >> No. >> So, Saturday about 2:30. >> Mhm. You got on turnpike and you got off at 57 exit, >> I think. So, >> and then you go and then you went down 57 north or south. >> Um, where would that be? To go into Overland there. >> Yeah. Pick her up. >> Now, do you get on another highway to get to get to Oberlin, like down 57 to Route 10? >> 10? Where's 10? >> It's another highway. If you go south on 57 and you hit >> Okay. >> Where 480. >> Okay. >> You know, we're 480 and Route 10 or 20. >> Well, just show me just show me how you go how you went to overland. That's all I [snorts] want to know. Well, >> see, >> yeah, if you go um >> right there where the Midway Mall is and go right there is the interchange. >> Midway Mall there. >> Yep. And then you take 57. Did you go Yeah. See, the Midway Mall is here where you get off on the on the turnpike. >> Yeah. >> Is right there. >> Yeah. or right here. I'm sorry. So, you go south. >> Yeah. And then where do you go? The first exit south to overland. >> Would you go to 113 and cut over? >> 113. I don't think so. >> Or 57 kind of. >> Yeah. Down 57 into Overland, right? >> Isn't that the way you go? >> If you go west, keep going west and you go to 58. Keep going. Hold, you know, you just take the turn. >> Yeah. See, there's over right there. 58. Yeah. >> Oh, 58. I say 57. Yeah. 58. >> So, yeah, >> there's a 57, right? >> Oh, so you get off at um you take 58 all the way down. >> Mhm. [clears throat] >> From the uh turnpike, >> right? Yeah. >> I know there's an Amherst exit right there. That's it. So, you get off right there. >> Okay. So, you didn't you didn't get off? >> Yeah. That's the first exit. >> Okay. So, you didn't get off >> before that. [snorts] >> I don't think so. That's the way I take the overland. >> I mean, would you have stopped to get lunch or anything? I don't >> think so. >> How long of a ride is that? >> From your house to >> about 40. >> 40 minutes. >> Yeah. >> So, if you went door to door about 40 minutes? Yeah, about 40 minutes. Yeah. Yeah. >> How many times have you >> The frustration is now obvious. Janet has fewer places to hide behind general explanations. So, detectives move toward concrete evidence instead of arguing with her version. This is a critical interrogation shift. They stop trying to win the conversation and start letting the physical evidence do the work. And once they begin connecting that evidence to the bedroom, the stakes change completely. Yeah. Yeah. >> You ever drive out there? Just spend a day out there or time out there >> sometimes. >> And then just go home yourself. >> Yeah. Like to her volleyball games or track and field games. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> All right. So, there had been no reason for your vehicle to be read a plate reader um getting off at any other exits besides Route 58 that Saturday. >> Pretty sure. Yeah, I'm pretty sure. >> What about this? Yeah. >> Or that Sunday. >> Or that Sunday. >> Mhm. >> Um I drove her back that Sunday. Morning. Early. >> What time? >> Um she had a whole bunch of stuff to do that day. I would say it was morning. Morning time. >> About what time? >> Oh, 7ish maybe. >> And so when you took her back? >> 6:30. 6:30. >> 6:30 7. Yeah. >> So, she went back that Sunday. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, around 6:30, 7 o'clock >> was when you left or when you got there? >> Um, when I got to Oberlin, you say? >> Mhm. >> Probably when I got there. Yeah. >> So, you got there 637? >> Yeah. >> All right. So at that time, did you guys get off at the exit to get breakfast or do anything? >> I don't think so. >> Okay. >> No. No. We would have gone back. >> So you you never >> once got off the exit onto Lorraine Road that Friday or that Saturday or Sunday? >> Road. I'm just trying to figure out where >> any exit county besides the 58 exit. >> No. >> So you never got off any any other exit? No. >> You never drove on like Lorraine Road? >> No. >> Or 480 or Route 10 coming back? >> No. >> So you went you went directly from the turnpike, got off at 58. >> Mhm. >> Got back on 58 all four times. >> Yeah. >> So there would be any >> any reason whatsoever that your vehicle would have been >> No. And when you were with her, you didn't drive somewhere to, you know, go get something to eat or anything like that? >> No. >> Okay. No. >> All right. So, it' be safe to say if your vehicle is spotted in that area, then you're in trouble. [snorts] >> Um, >> correct. >> I don't know. I don't know. I >> don't know if >> I don't have any reason. If your vehicle was spotted in the area where Shelly was found. >> Mhm. >> And you can't you don't have any reason whatsoever why it would be that way. >> Correct. >> Correct. >> Okay. >> Correct. >> All right. So, that's what I'm saying. Like, >> Right. That's >> when we when we go through the hours and hours of videotapes that we have to and uh >> Yeah. >> your vehicle shows up. >> Yeah. >> You're in trouble. Well, I would think so. I would think so. Fair enough, [laughter] right? I mean, >> that's a fair question, right? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And like I said, that's >> I would Yeah. >> You know, you know, Jan, that's what you know, that's we we're going to do all that. You know what I mean? >> I know. I know. And so that's why, like I said, and me and the tech McGlaughlin uh say is that, you know, this is always because, you know, the more hours and hours of manpower we put into this, um, the harder it gets for for us to to, you know, want to help people out or, you know, or not help people out, they >> for us to to tell the prosecutor, hey, look, >> you know, you know, give her give her some, you know some consideration here. I mean, she's had to go through all this. >> I believe you. I know that. >> You know, I know that. >> So, but um this is what we should do. I mean, I'm I'm all ears. You know what I mean? >> Yeah. >> Um but like I said, you know, before before all that happens, if this were like I said, we may we come to a conclusion today, the truth comes out. we get, you know, we find out all the facts and we present that to the for the prosecutor, >> you know, and like I said, this would this would probably, you know, be in more uh Detective Mlaughlin's court because we're in their city, you know, >> we're just I'm just country boy out in the city or big city. I'm just kidding. But >> but you know what I mean. But I know from from my experience in dealing with my prosecutors, >> if I said, "Hey, >> look at this this lady. I mean, >> she's 44 years old." >> 45. >> 45. Okay. She's 44 years old [snorts] and and she's, you know, she's great. She's great. And uh this happened. This happened, >> you know, and we know it wasn't She's not this cold, calculating person. She's a caring, warm, loving person and made a mistake. >> Yeah, >> that's that's what I think happened. >> I hear you. I hear you. >> That's what I think happened here. >> I know you feel that way, >> you know. >> No. >> And nobody likes to be lied to either. >> You know, nobody likes to be lied to. And just like these lessons that you taught your kids growing up, >> and you'll be teaching Bennett these lessons again, >> is that honesty is always the best policy. >> Oh, absolutely. Honesty is always the best policy. >> And the lesson, another lesson that you'll be teaching Bennett >> is that when you lie, you have to lie again. >> Mhm. >> And then you have problems keeping track of the lies that you told, >> right? >> And that eventually absolutely >> the the old proverbial saying is that it comes around and it bites you in the ass. >> This is true. >> And much like we've been trying to stress to you, if this is the case, >> this is true. if this is the case is that when the evidence comes back, >> nobody likes to be lied to. >> Yeah. >> Now, detectives start talking about the details that are hardest to explain away. Sheets, pillow fibers, possible blood evidence, and the condition of the vehicle. These aren't abstract accusations anymore. They were physical traces that can potentially contradict Janet's account. Her words can still change, but the evidence can. lesson that you'll be teaching Bennett >> is that when you lie, you have to lie again. >> And then you have problems keeping track of the lies that you told, >> right? >> And that eventually absolutely >> the the old proverbial saying is that it comes around and it bites you in the ass. >> This is true. >> And much like we've been trying to stress to you, if this is the case, >> this is true. >> If this is the case, is that when the evidence comes back >> Mhm. Nobody likes to be lied to. >> Yeah, I understand. And I ready to hear the truth. >> Me, too. >> I'm ready to hear it. >> Amen. >> And I know he will find it out. >> That's say >> I know it. >> If you want to give me a second, I'm going to go find out where Bennett's at. Oh, good. >> They're going to bring a social worker over to talk to you. >> Oh, okay. Okay, >> great. >> So, he's still here, >> Benny. >> Yep. >> He's just been playing for you. >> Oh, good. What's it say? >> Says, "One day of cold, 364 days of fun. I'll take my chances." >> So, do you think they're done searching right now? >> No, they're still there. >> Oh. >> And you can't go back because it's still considered a scene right now. >> And Charles is >> But soon. But soon. >> I can go back soon. >> Soon. today. >> I can. Okay. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, no, they're not I mean, we're not boarding up your house or anything. Okay. >> So, >> so do you feel then that I should get an attorney at this point? >> I can't offer you legal advice. >> Yeah. >> But I always tell people if you think you need an attorney, get an attorney. >> Um I like I guess I said I'm not >> I'm not underhanded. >> I'm not going to back door you. I'm not going to uh you know tell you, oh no, no, you don't need it. You know what I mean? I'm telling you >> that if if you've done something wrong, and I always tell people that if you've done something wrong and you feel like you need attorney, I just feel an attorney. >> There's enough that you say you've gotten, >> you know, that you say the sheet you've gotten, you've gotten um her purse and everything not there and the whole way it looks. you haven't gotten anything on anyone else. So, I'm feeling like, well, maybe I should get an attorney. >> Well, and and like I [snorts] said, that's, you know, >> an attorney is, you know, going to going to try to help you get the best possible deal or best, you know, >> right? So >> yeah, I would say if that's the way you feel. Like I said again, I can't unfortunately I can't say well here's an attorney I can you know I can't give you legal advice. I can't say well you need an attorney for this or that. >> All I can tell you is >> um >> then I ask about the polygraph. I'll ask about >> Yeah. And I'm not gonna like I said I'm not going to tell you um you know no don't get an attorney. >> Yeah. you know, I don't do that. You know, I I've been I've been in this game long enough to know that, you know, just because someone gets an attorney doesn't mean that they're not going to be truthful, right? >> You know, they're going to they're going to, you know, talk to attorney and the attorney might say, "Well, >> yeah, >> you know what, Janet, let's get ahead of this. Let's >> Yeah. >> You know, we know it's coming. >> You know, we know the truth's going to come out, at least most of it. let's um you know, let's get ahead of it and we'll deal with it. You know, there's a big difference between spending your whole the rest of your life in prison >> or spending a few years in prison. You know what I mean? >> For a crime of passion. >> Mhm. >> For instance, I'll tell you, um we had a we had a kid we had a kid that stabbed a guy 64 times and beat him with in the head with a pickle jar. >> With a what? >> A pickle jar. >> Oh, wow. Um >> he got he got 90 days in jail >> because it was allegedly he was a victim of abuse. >> Yeah. >> And he got fed up. >> The investigation now moves beyond the house. License plate reader information begins reconstructing the vehicle's movements, turning Janet's story into a timeline that can be checked independently. Detectives make the pressure clear if the vehicle is placed where it shouldn't be. Her explanation becomes almost impossible to maintain. By the end, the question is no longer what detectives believe. It's whether Janet will finally tell them what happened before the evidence tells them for her. >> You know, I can't promise you than, but I can tell you this in my experience is that there's far greater penalty and far greater charges when someone covers up and doesn't cooperate then as opposed to >> remorse. You know, and you know that and you know that with your kids. You know, >> if your if your kids did something wrong and they covered it up and lied to you, it makes you a lot more angrier than if they say, "Mom, >> I broke the window." >> You know what I mean? >> I hear you. >> So that's and and [snorts] you know, let your attorney know that, too. Like, hey, look, >> this is what they have. They won't tell me everything, right? >> But you know, that that noose is getting tighter. >> You know, it's getting tighter. And u you know >> and plus listen you don't I can tell that you have a conscience you know what I mean like you know what's right you're a caring and feeling person. >> Mhm. >> You know and for you to carry around something it it'll destroy your life. >> Absolutely. >> It really will. It will destroy your life. >> Sure. >> You know. >> Yeah. It it'll be not one waking moment that you won't think about, you know, >> tough to know that she's not going to be here, you know. [clears throat] >> Bennett is about to get a happy meal. >> Oh, [laughter] he loves that. Good. >> He would like to speak with you. >> Okay. >> In the other room. Okay. >> Counselor. Talk with her. Talk with mom. >> Oh, okay. >> Grandma, I mean, and uh >> Yeah. What do you see? Look closely at his story. What do you think really happened? Was it truly an accident or is he leaving something out? Drop your theory in the comments. 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