I think I don't have a fenced in backyard. He was asking me about Oh my god. What the >> So, >> what the man? >> And so part of the problem >> Oh, I'm going to be sick. >> You want to take You want to get some water? >> I don't know. I just need to breathe. [sighs] >> What the man? [laughter] >> I I'm [clears throat] sorry. my sister. >> I I want to find your sister. Your sister is not there. >> I know she's not there. >> She said she confessed to killing my mom with Heather that she gave her methadone. And I was like I was like [snorts] I had no idea what step. I couldn't tell what that smell was cuz I thought it was from the food and she brought some stuff over before and she left the meat. I thought that was the wind coming from that bucket cuz I was scared to touch it cuz it was all swelled up before. >> Yeah. >> What the god? What the what? [snorts] >> Piss off the wrong people, man. Yeah, >> she's her boyfriend and her make a mess. I don't know. >> Oh my god. >> So, when you were saying earlier today when you were out on the porch moving stuff back and forth, you see you were kind of going through the screen door and going through the house and everything. How are you going through the screen door when she's laid out right there because we couldn't >> I stepped over it. I've stepped in it. Yeah. Several I've stepped been stepping over it for [ __ ] days, man. >> But you never looked to see what it was. >> No, I didn't look to see what it was. I wasn't done. I was still packing up all her stuff that that they were like, "We want this, we want that." And I said, "Okay." I've been packing up her stuff because she's got two households worth of that she keeps bringing back to the house. >> She's moved in and out of my house like 10 times. Oh my god. [snorts] So, you're stepping over it. I mean, I've been up there. I was up there. It's the smell's pretty pungent. >> I haven't been up there that long. I could smell it, but I couldn't tell where it was coming from. >> Okay. >> Before answering, she asks for a soda and a beef stick. Then she talks for 57 minutes. Russian strip clubs, a missing sister, and a dead rat. She says she smelled something for days. She sprayed it, vacuum around it, and she says she'd been stepping over it, but she never looked down. And what are we going to do about what you want me to call my godmother to see if my sister's there? >> Where's your phone at? Do the officers have your >> They don't have my phone. My phone's at the house plugged in. That's I said that's I keep saying like my phone doesn't work. But she lives I've been on the phone with her when it was working. I was calling her. I said I'm worried. I was like her and Haley are going She said her and Haley got into it. She accused Haley of stealing and she said she she said she had three babies back there that her boyfriend gave her an abortion. I said, "Did they cut it out of her?" They put He said, "Did they put something in her?" I was like, >> "And Heather said that about Haley?" >> Yeah. and my sister, we called the police about it and they were like, they went and looked and they were like the fresh grades and then Heather's back there cutting down stuff [snorts] in the backyard and screaming at these people calling them baby killers and [ __ ] child molesters and all this. And I'm like, those people have been gone. >> The house that was right behind me, I don't know if they're like still live there. like the lights were all on and the all the paper was pulled back from the window and I'm like >> Do you know any like any of the names of these Ukrainian fellows or anything that >> Yeah, I have a screenshots of them on my phone. That's what I I have a picture I have a picture >> but you know their names off the top of your head. >> Okay. Her boyfriend's name was Alex M. Michael or Alex Mikuel. It's like Michael. A lot of their names are Michael and they own a bunch of the houses. She's been going over there. She went We went to the sister's house. We were supposed to have We're supposed to have Christmas over there. >> Okay. >> And um I had a bad I had a bad feeling. I said, "Are they like his mom? Does she speak English?" Cuz my sister was dating a guy from the church >> to Ukraine. >> Mhm. So, I never had a I had no idea and he didn't know and I busted her cuz I said, "Hey, where's my sister? I've called him a couple times and he's like, >> "This is Shannon." On December 18th, 2019, she sits down with detectives to explain what happened to Heather. But as the questions begin, the details of her story quickly start to raise more questions. >> The black dude stands in the corner and waits for the girls. I've seen them do it cuz they've dropped them off before. And I seen these girls just come out of nowhere like young girls. >> Mhm. >> And Heather's like doing this. And I was like, as long as they're doing it over there, you're not bothering me. Like we're we're okay. But when they brought my sister and she brought them these people into the house, then that's why I was like, you can't be having people coming in the house and having sex and getting pregnant and this is like like a brothel, you know? I'm like, cuz I don't need to lose my house over this. >> Sure. Yeah. And I really think that they've been working on getting me out of the way to take over my house. >> You think so? >> Yeah. >> How? Like how are they going to do that? >> Cuz my sister is my only relative. >> Okay. >> And it's my house and I'm the only person on the deed. >> Okay. >> And if Heather, she come in and act like she's going to be Haley's mommy. >> Mhm. >> And she's following around. She's never had that. So she'll she'll go to like 32year-old to like fouryear-old 8-year-old mode real quick. And you're like like she did when the police came, you know what? She went into what mode she went into petting her Jesus pillow and like goooo gaga and kind of and I'm like that's why the cops are like you can't help somebody that doesn't want help. And that's why I haven't like gone looking for her cuz I was like she's if she thinks she's grown and she wants to have a relationship with some another adult and they want to deal with that then that's fine cuz I'm just her legal power of attorney. I'm not her guardian. >> Okay. She's just my roommate. >> Is Is anybody her legal guardian? >> No, she is. That's why the cops said you can't do nothing. I said I said I can't keep calling the cops and I'm like every time >> if she's out here doing this on purpose if she's out here going to have sex with people, I can't stop her. >> Okay. So, do you have any idea who would have hurt? Um, she told me I had a picture and it's either Alex's nephew or the actual preacher in the Baptist Russian church's son. And I got her to tell me cuz I said that guy looks like Alex's cousin, which is Alex is the guy that from the Ukraine that my sister met at church. So I thought they were happy to go like kids going to church. Um, [sighs and gasps] oh my god. >> I don't know. >> You don't know? >> I don't know. I don't know. She's been wandering. I have no idea. Like, I've been on a totally different in a totally different world. I was working at Trader Joe's at the beach before this. My sister was working at the laundromat and she'd be gone. >> What laundromat was it? >> A1A. >> It's a long drive. >> She doesn't drive that I know of. >> How would you get her? Would you are you taking her? >> She was taking the bus. >> She's taking the bus, wouldn't I? >> Yeah. So, I'm like I She was working there before and I thought, "Hey, be lucky you got a job." And she's like, you know, unless you want to be sitting here watching TV all day cuz she's special needs. >> Yeah. >> But she's on the spectrum of like not 100% like I can't take care of myself, >> you know? She's high functioning like Asberger type. >> So, >> sure. >> I didn't know. >> I got you. >> I I had no idea. I had no relationship with my sister until the past 4 years. >> Okay. Well, I know you said that Heather uses drugs. Do you know what drugs she uses or do you is it just >> Man at this point? I have no clue. >> No idea. >> All I know is for a fact that I know her and her boyfriend did the math. And then I know for a fact that she was taking pain pills and giving them to the other boyfriend. And um I don't know. She was taking she's got a bag of pills and she was always like paranoid. locking them up in her truck and going places and doing >> okay. >> But she just just she this has been going on for 6 months. Like she disappears and comes back. So that's why I haven't been like, "Oh, well she'll be back." >> Okay. >> She'll be back. I'll be back in an hour and she's back in a week. And I'm like calling her, calling her. >> Yeah. >> Sending messages on Facebook. Messaging her. Messaging. >> Yeah. All right. So, let's do this. Can I snag a piece of paper from you? Sure. Oh my god. How long was How long has she been this? >> Uh I can't give you an exact time frame, but um >> cuz I went >> a minute. >> A minute. >> It's more than a day. >> Holy. >> So here. Borrow my pen. Uh well, first off, do you have any questions? >> Just about the vehicle. Her super Okay, go ahead. Which one >> do you normally park your Subaru in that position? >> I did that because of the boy the boyfriend in the truck and the daughter coming by and then I didn't know who broke into the porch. So I parked my vehicle that way to keep them because I have no way of that's why I was doing what I was doing to the front door because they came in. >> Secure the front door. >> Yeah, I'm trying to secure the front door cuz otherwise they just come in. >> She did this last time like 10 times. I don't know who cut into the screen. He comes with the truck. They're all this. Everyone's like, and I'm just like, go away. Here, take everything you need. I don't care what it costs. >> Yeah. >> And they're like, well, uh, yeah. And this guy's been supposed to the both of their boyfriends are convicted felons supposedly. She's got no license, but yet she's driving around. I'm like, well, where's you how are you paying for all this stuff otherwise? I'm like, I'm the one paying for it or her current boyfriend's paying for it cuz his mom's rich supposedly, but I'm like, you guys are so rich. What's important here is not simply what Shannon is saying, but how much control she is trying to maintain over the story. She keeps adding background people, relationships, and explanations before investigators can narrow anything down that creates distance from the central question. At this stage, the detectives are not challenging every detail. while they were letting her build her own version first. >> Well, I had drank and I was hanging out with the wrong crowd and then I didn't realize it was like right there in my house. Didn't have a clue. I thought, "Oh, this is great. We're all happy now. I would be cuz I've known her since third grade that I hadn't I didn't keep I didn't keep in touch with her for like that long." >> For a while. Okay. [snorts] >> All right. So, here, write down um the like the boyfriend's names uh for Heather and Haley. Um and >> Haley's got like >> Well, just for what you can remember, >> we're going to step out and look at something real quick. But yeah, try to write down their names of people we should look into and like addresses and stuff like that. >> Well, I don't think that those are the people that would try to be hurting her, but I don't know that. >> Okay. But just that way. >> So, Heather's boyfriend's or Haley's? >> Both. Both. I mean, you can write Heather Haley next to him or whatever. Okay. Okay. >> All right. >> All right. >> Thank you. I'll be back in a second. >> While detectives step out of the room, Shannon writes down all the information she can recall about the men in Heather and Haley's lives. [snorts] >> All right. Thank you for doing that. >> Thank you. I'm sorry. I'm just I'm not living in the same >> No, it's fine. I uh I appreciate >> I have a better I've been keeping records of this since I figured since [snorts] I first discovered it with Heather and I how much truth there is to it cuz I went around fact checking a lot of it with the Russian guys and the church they got going over there and like over there the other um Cedar uh Cedar Hills they're they're part of the Russian they're building another church over there and actually they they're already part of it but they had like a pig big truck back there and Heather was like messing with and that's where that garbage came garbage can came came from and she was like man this is like body you know remains and the fire and like going over here and harassing these people and this has gone on a couple times and I'm like I can't let you keep doing this. >> Yeah. And like I said, the cops are like I didn't realize that the extent to it was till the other night or um last week. >> Yeah. >> When she started screaming baby killers and cutting down their vines and and yelling out like literally par camped out in the chair out back at night like screaming and I was like get in [clears throat] the house. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> You're going to get a shot or all of us killed. >> Yeah. Can't. Yeah, I can't do that. >> But I have a better I have about 20 names that I had. >> Yeah, I told less. >> No, I have more at the house. I'm saying I have more. I have I've been I've been trying to document all this. So, >> what phone is yours? Is it an iPhone or is it an Android? >> I have an iPhone and an Android because Heather somebody they broke mine and I was trying to get the insurance money and I couldn't get I couldn't get them. They they were having problems. So, I just took the iPhone cuz I bought it for my sister and then she got a free phone. So, I've been stuck with two phones. >> Not stuck. Well, I'm stuck with all the phones now. That's besides my problem. >> So, you have two phones? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> One's the um the iPhone and one's the Galaxy because I can't make phone calls out unless I'm on the Wi-Fi from my Galaxy. I tried to have them the insurance thing and they were like, "Well, the phone works." I'm like, "Well, it doesn't work when I leave the house." >> What kind of phone does Haley have? >> Notice how the story keeps expanding instead of becoming clearer. Every new detail introduces another person, another problem or another explanation for why something happened. Investigators don't need to interrupt that process yet. The longer someone builds a complicated version of events, the more individual pieces they have to keep consistent later. And that is exactly where this interview is heading. >> Some information on there from per pimp. I just got her a new number. >> Do you know where her boyfriend lives? >> I don't know how many boyfriends she has. Yes, I do. I have his address. >> Okay. What? >> It's at the house. I'm going to have to come back in here and give you all the information that I have. >> Shannon makes more wild accusations about Haley. >> I couldn't figure out what was going on until I was like, is that's their way of paying her for the sex? Yeah, >> she's like she's told detailed, not graphic details, but she's like, you know, she's giving jobs at church according to her >> at church. >> Yeah. >> Like Sunday mornings. >> Yeah. This came out of my sister's m before choir practice. She told me that and I was like, >> "Wow." >> And I'm like, "I write down their names cuz I went and I went to the [clears throat] they have the districts. They have these other churches and they have the kiddos. My sister shouldn't be in the choir room. She's not in choir and like helping out with the soundtrack. I go, "Well, she's not that techsavvy, is she?" But she's been >> Yeah. >> So, I said, "Let me They said they were making these boxes for the um the kids that don't have." I said, "That's nice. That's cool." Whatever. And that's where she wanted to become a priestess. So, that's where all the crosses are from. [snorts] I was saying, "Cool. Yeah. Here's a here's a cand here's a candle. here's the Bible. Have at it. And then I thought something weird was going before and I've been to her church a couple times and I liked the sermon. The people were nice, but they were like a lot older. And my sister had this paperwork from the church that was like possibly money laundering, possibly a donation because of the Filipinos and the Russians. I don't know. But Heather kind of blew it really out of proportion. [snorts] >> And then she took the flash drive that's encrypted that is in Russian. I have it if you guys want if you want to look any further into the that. >> Yeah, >> cuz that's the only people that I could think of that would actually want that. >> Where is that? Where is that? >> It's at my house. I hid it. >> Okay. Where? >> It's I hid it in my room. >> Okay, >> I can bring it to you. I tried to give it to the police and the FBI. Like they're like, "Call the local police." And I was like, "We did." And they laughed at us. This was back in December. And I was like, so then this I remember the cop the cop came back out to my house and he Oh, I remember talking to you guys. Yeah. I was like, yeah, I went wanted to broke it up with handcuffs and like screaming and yelling cuz I was like, something's wrong here. And I was like, it was Heather or my sister, which obviously it was both of them. >> What What's Haley's phone number? >> She doesn't that I don't >> I know. I know. You said she didn't have. Do you know the the the go- go phone that she >> I got to find the box that it's written on. That's what I've been looking. I don't know this phone number. >> Okay. But it's written on the box of the thing. >> It is. Or that guy Joey who she lives with whose truck it is they're driving around the white truck. Jeff. >> Heather or Haley? >> Jeff. That guy's the guy that has the phone now. >> What? >> I'm Haley's phone. >> That's who has the phone. was Haley that she just got. >> Joey does. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> That's why I was like, "What happened to the phone I just got from my sister?" Because she was texting her te her her boyfriend's. >> Okay. >> And I had she's had the phone for less than 4 days and now the cops said, "Don't let her leave the house." And I go, "Well, I didn't let her leave the house, but she said she she called she's texting him. I have a picture of the screenshot. They came over. It came over to my house while we were gone." Yeah. >> So, me and Heather are both gone. Haley's got people coming in the back door and I'm going >> Yeah. >> Are you kidding me? >> Yeah. So, so >> what what do we How do you How can you track someone without their phone? >> I mean, she stopped. She quit her job because she was being prostituted out with her ex-boyfriend that's missing, too. Alex went to church with her. He has I'll give you his address. Like I've I've been putting all this together for a while now. I'm just >> That's in your phone at the same >> It's not just that I wrote things down and I was like factchecking like making sure I'm not just going around going, "Hey, that guy's Russian. He must be a >> Is that is this No, that's for for you guys." >> Oh, >> yeah. For you guys. >> I have a picture of her boyfriend. I have the address. >> She's saying he should have the phone of Haley's. >> Joey Joey has Haley's phone. >> As far as I have been told, which I haven't been told. Yeah, I haven't been told much of the truth. In >> theory, you should have Haley's phone. >> Okay. Okay. [snorts] >> So, um >> Okay. So, >> and he's the hacker guy. So, he's hacked the phones and I don't know what they do. >> Oh, okay. >> They're like IT specialist. So, I was like, >> "Oh, wow." >> Right. That's what I'm saying. I've had this happen to me before. I know a guy that was like into computer hacking and I was just like it blew my mind was I couldn't believe the dark web. >> Yeah, >> they bounced their signals and do all the crazy like >> Yeah, stuff is wild. >> Detectives steer the interrogation back towards how Heather ended up dead on the porch and how Shannon claims not to have noticed. >> Listen, listen to me for a second. Okay, I understand about the whole meat thing. I get it, right? >> That's your No, I meant like I was taking all her stuff that she brought that was blocking the front door. >> I know. I know. Okay, >> I'm a homeowner. Detective Mayan's a homeowner. You're a homeowner. >> Well, >> generally people take pride in their homes, right? If there's going to be some sort of And you even said you can't yell at the neighbors and call them baby killers and cut down trees and stuff >> because, you know, I have to live in this neighborhood. This is my house. I pay for it, you know. But with all that, if there is a odor, a foul odor, I mean, it it is normal human behavior to try to track down what that odor is. >> I've been looking for it for days. >> But if you're just stepping over, that doesn't make any sense to me. >> I've been looking for it for days. They came over. I thought it was coming from the garbage can. I just dumped out that garbage can that's sitting in the front yard. It's been there for weeks. >> Mhm. >> I thought that's where it was coming from. >> Okay. >> I wasn't sure where it was coming from. I got new neighbors. Everyone just had their cookout. Trash. You ever thrown chicken? >> Yeah, I have. I have. No, I listen. I >> I haven't been outside till like today and yesterday when they came over. >> Yeah. So, >> I mean besides going out on the other night. >> Yeah. >> So, I'm like I'm asleep. I go out. I went out at night. I'm not smelling it. I saw the flies and I saw and I found the meat and I found the raw I found the [snorts] actual like maggots on the porch from the food that was in a container that was sitting right there where that was >> all the maggots from the ground. There were no maggots in the food container in the food container. >> I showed I showed it to I showed it to the guy that came I I showed him and I said I thought that's what they were coming from because I opened it up and there were maggots. >> Okay. [snorts] And now I don't I don't want to get into a huge deep discussion because I certainly wasn't there earlier today, but the the miss the the detectives who were out there earlier today did the impression that you didn't want them to go on the front porch and then they said when you finally did go on the front front porch, you kind of tossed something like over that pile. It was all wet. What was that? >> It was all wet. It rained and like I sprayed it down. I was like trying to I've been spraying down the stuff for the bugs. I put seven dust down. And I've been trying to figure out what's coming from a spraying. >> This is where the interview begins shifting from general storytelling to chronology. Dates, movements, and who was where suddenly matter much more than the surrounding drama. That change is significant because a broad explanation can survive ambiguity, but a timeline cannot. Once investigators start placing events in sequence, even a small inconsistency can force the entire story to I'm a glorified secretary. >> I'm a I'm a factf finder, right? My job is to come into a situation without really any background and [snorts] try to find as close to the truth as what will happen. And I say as close to the truth as what will happen because people have different perspectives of things. And I'm never going to say that I'm have 100% the truth unless it's like all caught on video. >> Yeah. You got like two sides of the story and then the truth or have outside inner have someone that has nothing to do neutral. >> But part of the big things a lot of people don't think about is everyone looks at everything like the law is black and white. Everything's black and white. It's this. it's that and that's not really the case, right? What Detective Mayanm and I can both tell you is that there are a lot of shades of gray in a lot of different laws, right? >> Mhm. >> There and what I have seen in all the cases that I've had go to trials is the juries of peers when people look because these interview rooms I mean if if it comes down there's always a first interview whoever whoever it is, right? There's always a first interview of the of the first person who ends up committing the crime, right? >> And they'll see and the jury can see them lie and say things that don't make sense and they use their common sense. It's like that doesn't make any sense. I don't understand what's going on. >> And then later on they want to stand up and be like, "Oh, well, I was scared. You know, Detective Saunders is so intimidating and mean and all this other foolishness." And it almost never works. But what I can tell you is >> human nature, right? Human nature. People go with their gut and they like things if things make sense, they feel good about it. That's what if it doesn't make sense and they're throwing flags and their alarm bells go off and everything like that. Okay. >> That's how I found out my was cheating on me. She kept throwing that at me. >> Well, there you go. So, so you know to follow your gut, right? And what I'm telling you right now as a professional who does this for a living and supports my family, people who are not in this room, if they end up watching this interview, they are not going to believe what you're saying. But what I and and what I'm saying here now is I think that something happened and you panicked and you didn't know what to do. Okay? And if that's it, I need to know now of what happened. Okay, we're still looking for Haley. >> Yeah, >> but Heather has been on your porch for days. >> Are you serious? >> Days. Okay. Walking over it, stepping over it. Oh, I don't know. And this back and forth like >> people are not going to look at this and and say, "Oh, yeah, that's something that I would that's I I get it." It's and and one of the biggest issues is we had an argument on this day and then >> well we weren't we weren't we weren't arguing when we came. That's the thing is we weren't arguing. It's like she left and then she said I'll be back and my sister she told her and Haley got into a fight. We weren't actually fighting fighting. I was trying to keep her from getting a DUI and I just was trying to take her keys. We were like fighting. >> Okay. And I wasn't there. >> She just slammed me against the wall, hit me, and was like, I'm leaving. And then she's done this. >> And I wasn't there. And >> I know. I'm just telling you. >> No, no, no. And I'm not here to pass judgment, but I very intentionally when I come and I sit down and I talk to people and I think you can see outside of the forms where I ask you what your name and nickname and your date of birth and all that, I don't [clears throat] really write anything down cuz I [snorts] try to listen to all the words that you say. Right? There are so many people that we talk to in this life that don't actually listen to us. But I try to listen to you. And what I have learned from you is that you're a very caring person. >> Yeah. Yeah. You took in your sister after your your your mom died >> under those circumstances. And you've been caring for your sister. You've taken in Heather who's been running around on you with every thick and hairy in the neighborhood. Sure. Work. But all of these people are taking advantage of you. They're running you dry of money. You find out at first she's going to get two. Listen to me for a second. You know, you you you say you find out these people are running you dry on money. All the phones are in your name. You owe the owe the cell phone company money. You know, people keep telling you they're going to give you money. They don't ever give you money. You're the one that pays for the house. Your name's on the house, but you don't even you said you can barely afford your mortgage payment. >> Well, no. My mortgage payment is the problem. It's the fact that nobody's paying me. And I was like, everyone's trying to move into my house. And I'm like, okay. Cuz you don't want to pay wherever you're coming from. But I'm I'm giving I'm telling you what you've told me and what I have learned from you from listening to you. And it seems like there have been a lot of stresses on your life that were brought by Heather and and her other foolishness that she has going on. >> It wasn't necessarily that. It wasn't that way to start with. It was when all of a sudden she started blaming my sister and like saying that the Russians were like doing this and this and that. So I don't know. I think she fabricated a lot. But a lot of this infighting that she brings to a lot of this internal fighting and turmoil is bringing a lot of these issues in your life, right? >> Well, it's it's it's triggering me because of my mother >> and when it but and when it builds up and there's an argument, whether it be fighting argument, whatever, I'm just using your words. There's an argument and then this happens, right? There's going to be an autopsy. We're doing an autopsy tomorrow. we are going to be able to narrow down her time of death >> pretty accurate over something. >> We're going to have to look at everything, right? But at the end of the day, >> I don't think that if we went out right now and showed people this interview and kind of explained the backstory and if we asked a hundred random people on the street, I'm not sure that we could find 10 that would believe your circumstances at all. Right. because she's been she [clears throat] keeps like twisting the story feeding all this information to me that I don't know is true. >> So, but I am sitting here telling you let's take all of that aside. All of that aside, all of this other she's been feeding you, right? She can't feed you anything if she's dead. She's been dead. >> I meant this was before. >> Before she's been dead for days, right? >> Like how many days? I don't know yet, but I'm telling you days, okay? [snorts] And you have been fed misinformation by someone for a very long time. You've been financially taken advantage of. >> Well, the boyfriends are not I told you I'm financially okay cuz I have I have pension and 401k. >> I'm not I'm not judging your money situation. I'm not like trying to like it's not worth my life over. It was not worth it's not worth >> you can be Jeff Bezos worth $92 billion and if he finds out that >> pressure here is subtle. The detectives aren't necessarily accusing Shannon of lying. They're making her own details do the work. Each answer becomes something that can be compared with the next answer. That's how an interrogation starts tightening without becoming openly confrontational. The question is no longer whether her story sounds believable. It's whether all of its pieces can exist together. >> You have expressed frustration about being >> I know. I'm sorry. I'm just hungry. I haven't eaten. >> I get I I get But what I'm But what I'm trying to tell you, Shannon, is in this situation, it is critically important for you to be open and honest. Even though it can be so so difficult, it is so important to be like, "Listen, this is what happened. I panicked." People can understand a lot of things. Like I said, as long as it makes sense. If A leads to B leads to C, that's fine, right? I know the ABCs. You can't tell me M comes after after D. It doesn't happen, right? >> I understand. >> So that we need to kind of cut through all this stuff. There's been a lot of ramblings. There's been a lot of stuff. What >> I've been taking the medication that's been the making that. That's why I stopped taking that because it was like I think it was making me more neurotic and like >> okay >> like the medicine >> Yeah. >> that I shouldn't need shouldn't have been on to start with and then drinking on top of it. So I mean there's times where I blacked out and we've gone places and I'm like [snorts] >> oh where did this come from? Like oh you don't remember? somewhat. No, I remember. But I was like, that's why they were like they took when this first happened and we were fighting and they took my guns and put them in a lock box and I said, "No, no, no violent contact." And I was like, "Yeah, there I'm not trying to be violent. We've been making up ever since. This fight just happened the other day cuz I was trying to restrain her from going out and DUI." >> Yeah. >> The sister I don't know what they thought about. >> Okay. >> Half the time I don't know what they talk about. I just She comes in here like, "Yeah, your sister said this. your sister said that. And I'm like, "Okay." And I ask my sister and she'll be like, "Yeah." And I was like, "So, which one is it? Is it black or is it white?" And she's like, >> "Yeah." >> So, what happened to Heather? >> I have no idea. >> You don't have any idea? >> No. >> There's a dead woman on your porch. >> No, she disappeared. And I said I didn't keep looking for her cuz she disappeared for five a week at a time. I don't sit out on the porch. I >> She didn't disappear. She died in your home and she stayed at your home. >> She died on my front porch. >> She died. I'm not I don't know exactly where. I'm not going to sit here and act like an orthodontist like I know everything, but I'm I'm telling you I I do I support my family doing this, okay? I take my job very seriously. >> I understand. >> I've been doing it a long time and I'm talking to you. I'm telling you that there's things you're not telling me which I think is not good for your best interest in all honesty. Right. So, I will ask for the last time what happened to Heather. >> I don't know. >> You have no idea. >> She left and didn't come back. I have no idea. >> Where did she leave to? >> I don't know. >> What car is she leaving in? >> She left. >> She left. I think she went after my sister. She left. Like, just left. >> Did she tell Is she on foot? She on a scooter? She on a bike? She a car? >> I don't know. She had She could have had someone pick her up. She didn't leave in the truck because Jeff needed it the next day for work and [snorts] we were all going to work together cuz we're trying to get another base and she's like, "I don't feel good. My stomach hurts. I don't feel it doesn't I don't feel good." And I was like, "This has been happening with her for months." And it's every time she gets paid, she goes on a party vendor, comes back, and then she's like sleep for a couple days. >> She has stomach issues. >> She's got all kinds of issues. But >> what day was that when she was having stomach issues? >> Um, Friday. >> Friday was the day she was having stomach issues. >> Yeah, she said. >> And is that And is that the same day that she left? >> She left Friday night or Sat Friday night. She disappeared and came. I don't know what happened. and she said she got into an argument with my sister and then like I was in my half the time I'm DJ I'll play playing my music or I'm like sleeping. I don't hear a lot of this stuff but like she's like left and she leaves in the middle of the night. This has happened to me before too. Like I wake up and I'm like what happened? Well, I couldn't sleep. So I go and she's always like looking out the window. So >> So she had stomach issues Friday. Is Friday when she left? >> I think so. >> Okay. So >> I think so. But you seen her? >> I I thought she came back to the house Saturday. I thought I saw her. I thought I heard her voice. And she's like, "I'll be back." And I was like, "Okay." >> So you last you last saw her Friday. You thought you heard her Saturday. >> Pretty sure that that was her. Came back cuz she was like, "I'll be back." >> Okay. [snorts] >> And I said she said something about the Haley's phone and trying to find my sister. And I loo I've been looking around. And I said, she says, she's like, "Stay here in case she comes back." And I said, "Okay." Well, she never came back that I know of, unless I was asleep cuz I just changed the locks. Literally. >> So, let me ask you a question. Okay. If we go through this, you said you have no idea what happened. You didn't have anything to do with this, nothing, right? If we go through this process and I find evidence that you are responsible for Heather's death and there is a second interview, what [snorts] what are we going to say then? I mean, you know, like what what am I supposed to say? Cuz at that point, I sit down and I'll say, Shannon, like we had a conversation that night. I approached you very calmly, respectfully, nicely. Like, >> well, I might have I've been I've had a concept of time in in days and years when I was younger. I had a lot of head injuries. I got some accidents and I was like just drinking premedicated. Sometimes I lose track of the days I don't leave. I'll sleep. I'll sleep sleep all day and night. Sometimes I'm like, "Oh." And it's like, "Oh, it's P.M. now." And [snorts] this is not a This is not untrue. People know that about me. >> Okay. >> And Heather does the same thing. And I was like, wonder if she was poisoning me with the medicine that she was giving me. >> You think Heather was poisoning you? Investigators questioned Shannon regarding reports her neighbors made about hearing gunshots around the time Heather went missing. >> But the guy in the backyard, his name is Sam, and he's been in my house and he he's the one that gave my sister the abortion. He's got babies buried in the backyard and she's been screaming and yelling at this guy constantly and he lives directly by my house. And there's another guy lives over here who she said was the Filipino pastor. And then there's another guy over here. >> So, who shot the gun? >> I have no idea. >> Well, if you're out there when everyone's hooting, hollering, screaming. >> How do I not hear the gunshots? I'm I'm not I was dejing in my room. Like, that's the only way I didn't hear it. >> We're We're right back to what makes sense and what doesn't make sense. Cuz you can't say you're in your room DJing and say, "I don't know anything about gunshots." I'm like, "What was when people WERE YELLING?" LIKE, "OH, YEAH. We were yelling at each other." Like, >> no, she was yelling at them. I don't know. Like, she was yelling at them. is becoming more than just another person in Shannon's story. >> Shannon repeatedly uses Heather to explain the conflict, the financial problems, the strange behavior, and the people surrounding the house. That gives investigators an important pattern. The more responsibility Shannon places outside herself, the more important it becomes to establish exactly what Shannon personally saw her >> that night. And like, no, come in and check it out. Just like when I let them all come in the house and look, come look. Come in the garage. Come look in the backyard. Is there any? >> And they find a body in the front porch. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> That part. [clears throat] >> Imagine. >> No, it's not. >> I'm not trying to make a No, I'm not I'm not laughing. I'm just like I don't know what happened because >> No, you're just saying like I I would have been so helpful. I would have let the police come in and and look around. And and you did you did let police come in today and they found a dead body on your >> I let Heather and her daughter come in and look around. And I let the cops come in and look around. This is day what? But how how many days has she been missing? >> I don't know. You tell me. >> Uh since Saturday. Still no sister that I know of. I just changed the locks. I have You see that? That I've changed the locks. Detectives go back to the altercation between Heather and Shannon earlier in the year >> that was just like threatening but we're not >> I I understand it sounds bad. That's why I'm like >> I was yelling at her. I was drunk. I was mad. I felt like and this was like in January. >> Okay. >> So it's not >> What did you tell her though? >> I don't know. It just you whole family. >> Was there anything about want to kill her? Um, probably. But it was just it was just venting. I was just angry because I was like but I would never I have a buddy we used to live with that hunts and that's where a lot of those guns came from. I think I killed Bambi once and it made me not want to eat anymore. >> Yeah, that could be why your stomach is upset. >> Why? >> Because of Heather's dead on your front porch. That's not why my stomach my stomach's been messed up for months. >> I'm not and I'm not I'm not trying to make brevity of the situation. No, it's not. It's Listen, Shannon, look. Put yourself in my position. It It looks a whole hell of a lot like you committed a murder. >> It looks a lot like that. I'm not saying it definitively, but what I'm telling you, >> that's why I'm freaking out cuz it looks like because of what happened when we were fighting back then and I did send those texts. It doesn't look good. But everything is looking like this, right? And that's why I'm telling you, I'm sitting here. I told you there's always a first interview. A lot of times there's a second, third, fourth, whatever. But that first interview is so important because if we know all the details in the first, it really helps everything out, right? Because I'm telling you, Shannon, it looks like a murder. And you're like, "Oh, that's crazy. I was just stepping over her body for days and days. I had no idea. >> It didn't smell. >> Bull. It does smell. >> Well, I only I didn't know. >> I knew this for a living. It's >> I didn't know where it was coming from. >> Okay. But >> hands down. That doesn't make sense. But if it's a listen, this happened. I panicked. I didn't know what the to do because we had no violent contact and then all a sudden she's dead. I don't that is something that myself and outsiders can >> okay that I can make a logical jump here >> but right now we're trying to we're trying to go through the ABCs >> I understand >> forwards backward A W B T Z like it there's no logical progression through what we're doing right >> Mhm. >> So does am I accusing you of murder? Not quite. But I'm telling you, it looks a lot like you committed a murder. And if there is anything outside of that, I need to know now. >> Okay, we went and >> who killed Heather? >> Whoever she pissed off, like besides me. Like whoever she blew the whistle on. >> Whoever she pissed off that wasn't me. >> No, not me. No, I mean like not me. No, no, no, no. That's not what I mean. The guys that she's been screaming and yelling at would be a good guys to start looking at. the guys that she's been scream she's been sitting on the chair out there screaming and yelling to the my backyard at these people. >> Okay, >> that's who I would look at. >> Okay, [snorts] >> because otherwise I don't know. My sister's gone and I I I'm the one holding the back. >> So I see how it looks and that's what I said. This looks bad. That's why I'm freaking out. >> Who put her on the porch? >> I'm not strong enough. I have no idea. I'm not strong enough to fill her up. She's out there. So, they ask somebody to move her there. >> No. >> Okay. Yeah. There's a bag with big ice packs and between her legs. Like, who put that there? >> I don't know. >> No idea. >> Maybe my sister did. I don't know. Like, I just changed the locks in the door. >> You You said you've been trying to clean up the front porch, right? Were you out there with the vacuum cleaner trying to clean up like a little like wet dry back thing? >> I was cleaning up the she spilled all over the porch. I didn't know she poured. She had this bottle of um what do you call it? The fireball and then she spilled coke and stuff and I've been cleaning up that porch every time. Every time she comes and goes away. >> Okay. [clears throat] >> Every time. Cigarette butts everywhere. Coke food. >> Trash in your house. >> That's an understatement. It's like the Tasmanian devil guy every time she comes. >> Okay. >> So, >> who covered her up with a sheet? >> I don't know. >> This is the point where the porch quietly becomes the most important location in the entire conversation. Shannon describes the smell, explains what she believed caused it, and repeatedly separates herself from the area. But investigators are building something different. Success opportunity and familiarity with what was physically there. Nothing has been revealed yet, but the groundwork is being laid. >> Her and I'm like, "Where'd this go?" And then I'm like, "What happened to this? Where' that go?" Like, she was like stealing weed from I don't care. It's just bunny. I don't care. [snorts] Like I said, I can go get a job anywhere doing anything, but I can't have like keep getting in trouble, keep getting in trouble, keep getting in trouble, and try to get a real job. >> Mhm. >> But, you know, I'm in the union. I could call them right now and go back to work. I've just been trying to figure out what to do with my sister. Put her in a halfway house or put her in a hover house or put her in a home with other special needs girls like her. because as far as I'm concerned, it's out of my control. It's out of control. Like, I have no idea that this is going on. This this is what Heather just kept telling me. And I asked my sister, and she's kind of like, "Yeah, we get that. We both did the same thing. When you talk to her, he'll go, "Oh, you'll see." >> I hope I get the chance to talk to her. >> Yeah. I hope so, too. >> Yeah. Yeah. I hope I get a chance to talk to her >> cuz she knows what happened. >> She does. >> She has to though. >> So, prior to Monday, you could walk from your front door to the screen door without having to step over or onto anything. >> Yes. >> Okay. And then Monday is when there starts to be like a pile of stuff. >> I think it was Monday >> and you Tuesday. Uh 4th of July. Fourth of July was Tuesday. >> Yes. Monday. Cuz they that's when they started >> Brandon and Raven. And I was like, I don't know. I've talked to my go and I was like, I'm worried about Heather and Haley cuz they're both gone >> and nobody else has been in your home since Saturday. >> Jeff. >> Well, but in your home unsupervised, I guess. I mean, >> not that I know of. >> Okay. Besides you. besides me and I went out um I went and saw the show downtown at Myth. I was gone for a while then. >> What was that show at Myth? >> It was Aphrodite. It was a show. Anyways, it was on um Monday, I think. Yeah, cuz Yeah, it was Monday night. >> Monday night. That was when the when the thing was Aphrodite, >> I think. So, I have proof. I got I went there. I have people I've been trying to talk to. This looks bad. >> Yeah. No, I'm just trying to So, the last time you physically saw Heather was Friday. >> I thought I saw Heather cuz she said I thought I heard her say, "I'll be back." >> That was Saturday. You told me. >> I thought it was Saturday. >> Okay. But that's Wait. So, so Friday, Saturday, whatever. But from Saturday, we'll be generous and say Saturday to that time, there was no unsupervised anybody else to the best of your knowledge in your home until Monday when you started making the pile. And prior to Monday, you could walk unimpeded from your front door to the screen door. Correct. >> Yes. >> Okay. So, why were you moving all of her stuff out? Did anyone help you come and move her [ __ ] out? >> No. No. That Well, that's when Jeff and her daughter came in. They took everything that was worth anything. The computers came in the house. They said, "Let me go look just to see." I had unlocked my studio. >> Were they coming in the back door or the front door? >> They came in the front door. >> Okay. [snorts] >> They came in the front door and the back door. And that was yesterday. >> Yesterday. >> Yesterday was >> Tuesday, July 4th. >> That's when they came our stuff. >> Okay. >> And I I've been piling it up ever since then. I've been piling it up in the garage cuz I don't want them in and out of my house all the time. break. Do whatever you need to do. That's why I opened up my house. Jeff looks around. Dyer looks around. Here's your stuff. Meanwhile, I'm packing the ball or >> Did they go in the garage at all? >> They didn't. The cops came back and looked in the garage. They came back several times. They came and looked in the garage and looked around. And I'm like, I haven't seen her. And it's not like cuz I don't want to see her. It's cuz I'm genuinely concerned about her and my sister. And now I see why that I was freaking out. >> Okay. [clears throat] >> Because she's she's gone. >> Yeah, she's dead. >> And we're I thought that was my Oh god, dude. >> I think we're good. >> Yeah. >> All right, Shannon. We'll be right back with you. Okay, hang on. What do we do now? >> Be patient for me. >> I'm going to try. I need some more food, dude. >> All right, I'll bring you another beef stick. >> Thanks. Oh my god. Heather, what the man? [snorts] >> I'm being afraid, man. >> [clears throat] [snorts] >> All right, champ. Got one last thing I want to talk to you about. >> All right. >> We're going to process the scene. >> Okay. As you know from watching Law and Order 48 2020 deadline, whatever the [clears throat] hell. >> I don't know how much truth there is. That's why if people watch TV shows, I try to >> We do a lot of DNA tests and stuff like that. >> Okay. >> Would you consent to me getting a collection of your DNA from a cheek swell? It's rubbing a Q-tip on the inside of your cheek. I'll take it and compare it to evidence against the scene. >> Sure. >> Shannon signs paperwork consenting to provide a DNA sample. Detectives now want to talk to her about Haley. Did she suffer the same fate as Heather? >> So, we are actively trying to find Haley. >> So, if >> you have any idea where she would be our >> I had no idea all this was going on to tell you the truth. >> Okay. >> I had no idea she was running the street. I thought she'd go to church. She was all happy. Mow the grass. I saved you from my evil mom who's like Heather's mom. And bye-bye, mom. I don't know. It just sounds insane. So that's why you're like like >> what do you mean? >> Just everything just sounds insane. It sounds like I just can't believe this is even happening. >> So I know I know you said those three guys behind you or whatever. >> Well, I don't know who else I don't know who else is involved. I said I have the 20 names and I can give I I gave the police that, but I can give you that because you're the detective. I'm >> open. There you go. See >> no co test >> trying to This isn't funny. I'm sorry. I'm >> You got to You got to make >> No, I'm not. It's not I'm not making >> You're not laughing. >> I'm not laughing. I'm trying not to freak out and cry and make you guys seem like I'm a crazy person, but there you go. See? >> Okay. >> Doesn't hurt. That's all it is. >> You guys need to check anything else like >> gunpowder or All right. Oh my god, dude. >> I know this may seem like a silly question, but I ask it in >> relative sincerity. >> Silly question. >> Um, do you have any questions for me? >> Um, [clears throat] I I I know how the ice packs got there. I think I threw some away cuz she got these things from the the the green the green the chef the thing you order your food. >> Mhm. [clears throat] >> The green chef or whatever. >> Yeah, like the the the green box you mean? >> Yes. >> It's like HelloFresh. >> Yes. Correct. Correct. Correct. She was collecting a bunch of that. I had it in freezer and I have like four of them and they're like this big. >> Yeah. Real big. Yeah, >> I took some of them and and took them out and that might be where they ended up. >> Where did you take them out at? >> Well, I took them out in the backyard and I took there's some I don't I don't even know where it came from. >> Like the backyard? >> No, I like took them I thought I threw some of them away or I threw them on the front porch. I'm not sure. Like like I said, they kept coming. The police came, her kids came. Give me your date of birth one more time. [snorts] >> But they came back and forth at me like this before and I was just like I don't know. >> So you're going to say you took >> I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure if that's what was in the bag is what I'm saying. >> When you threw them away, did you put them in the garbage bag like with other or were they by themselves? >> I don't know. I just threw them out of the porch cuz they were taking over in my freezer. >> Okay. >> And I'm not sure >> and they just happened to land on her body. >> I had four or six of them. >> This is the psychological turning point. Until now, Shannon has been talking about the porch as if it were an ordinary part of the chaos surrounding the house. Then the detective changes the meaning of everything she has just described. Her reaction is immediate. She becomes physically overwhelmed and starts trying to process what she has been told. The conversation has suddenly moved from speculation to a reality she can no longer explain away. >> I want to say January I it's on the police report fight the first fight we got into we were fighting and my sister was at my grandmother's house. >> Okay. And I kept saying something doesn't add up here and you guys I don't know what's going on but I was like I was like so I got arrested [snorts] cuz we got into a fight and then she played like the victim and I was like so you're like big a lot bigger than me and a lot stronger than me like there is >> yeah she's like solid you know. >> Mhm. >> But anyways we got into a fight and then we got back together and there was like no violent contact. I have my godmother talking to my sister because she's a she's a teacher >> or she was a teacher and and she's she's more familiar with her like as in mom type figure because my my mom was mom to us. >> So she's like anybody that has kids she's like you know follow you like oh I get that motherly instinct. I'm like I'm your sister. I don't know what to tell you. Give a roof over your head. >> Yeah. What uh where does your godmother live? >> She lives here in Springfield. >> All right. In Springfield. >> So my I've been talking to her on the phone. I said, "I'm worried." And I'd be telling her the story and I'm telling her what Heather's saying, but I don't sound like I'm insane. >> Mhm. What's What's your godmother's name? >> Shirley Thomas. >> Shirley Thomas. >> Mhm. >> Like, don't call me Shirley. S H I R L E Y. Thomas. >> Mhm. And we're both on the board of Women's Coalition of Labor Union for Women's Rights. >> We're both on the board. >> Oh, you're on the board of Women's Women's Coalition. >> Clue. Mhm. >> Clue. >> Mhm. >> How does Women's Coalition of What? >> I know. It's um Coalition of Labor Union Employment or something. Anyway, or I think this was a W t card maybe in my wallet. It's they have it. I don't have the my phone like Okay. Anyway, the story about the phones is [snorts] >> I haven't been able to get in touch with anybody cuz I haven't paid the bill because they did this. They've been doing this like every month. [snorts] And every time they're about to get this like I'm going to make $10,000. I'm like she's racking up the bill I've been paying for her gas, cigarettes, her boyfriend, you know, um cleaning products, rug doctor, you know, etc., etc. And everyone's like, "Where's our money?" She's like, "I'm about to make I'm about to I'm about to get paid." And then she like disappears. >> Yeah. >> And that's is what she's done every every month. >> Okay. >> For since November. >> And this is your sister or Heather? >> Heather? Heather. They're together. He My sister doesn't work. She's She's disabled. >> What's your sister's name? >> Haley. >> Haley. >> Uh-huh. >> It's a H A Y L Y. >> H A I L E Y. >> J I L E Y. Okay. She was working at a laundromat and she's like been working there for seven years and the people call me all the time. Hey, what's up with your sister? I don't know if she's acting weird. That's how I found out about the guy that had threatened to kill me. They made him turn in his gun. So that was >> that's good. >> Yeah. A 5year restraining order. And that's why I was like, "Okay, I don't know what's going on here, but this is the only way." >> So has Haley been living with you? >> She's been living with me the whole way. She just disappeared like Thursday. But but the you say when you dropped her off at godm's at Shirley's house, but back in January she left and came back to live with you. >> She came back to live with me. >> Okay. And she's been living with you for a couple months. >> Okay. >> She's been back for [snorts] she was my go for 4 months. Like I said, she's been raised in hell of since. >> So do you think Heather Heather like kind of like looks out for Haley? I don't I don't think I think Heather just looks out for Heather is what I think. >> So, have you reported Haley missing? >> Not yet. She's at wherever she was at before. >> Where was that? Where's the >> She disappeared for like She She disappeared. She I don't know. She like took off. >> When was that? >> So, according to Heather, she took off Thursday. But like she's been going to these people's houses. Like they went and tracked her phone back and she's like been hanging out these people. Like are these the church people? Like I can't get anybody to answer me. The very like I just >> How do you track Haley down? Like you you still have a track or whatever on her or >> I didn't used to have to do that. >> Yeah. >> No, she's gone. [clears throat] >> She left and the cops said if a person doesn't want help, you can't make them get help. >> And so the the room with the crosses is Haley's room. >> Yep. And there's the other room. Do you and Heather share that room? >> We share the whole house. Like she's come in, like I said, she's come in and taken over my house. All of our stuff's all mixed together. She comes in and then there's random stuff that shows up and I'm like, where did this come from? >> Okay. >> And it's just like, oh, you know, like never, oh, I got this from these people. Here's a bag of clothes. Cuz she cleans people's houses. >> Okay. But she just cleans. She just works on the base right now is what she said. She lost some contracts. She's been trying to sue this guy John. Oh yeah. She was working at Bardi >> with her the guy she actually has an address to on her driver's license. That's Joey. >> Joey. Okay. >> Got Jeff and Joey. >> Okay. >> Joey and Jeff didn't know about each other. So, I'm thinking like this has happened before obviously cuz >> Yeah, >> cuz >> is she going steady with one of them right now or >> I don't know. >> You don't know? >> I don't know. >> What's y'all's relationship, right? >> I knew about >> Now, the detective stops following the side stories and starts confronting the structure of Shannon's explanation itself. He gives her an important opening. Maybe she panicked. Maybe something happened that she didn't know how to handle. But at the same time, peaks returning to one unavoidable fact. She had been around Heather for days. The goal is to make continuing the story harder than finally explaining what happened. >> I thought she came back to the house Saturday with cuz she has another vehicle. >> Okay. >> It's a Dodge Journey, I think. >> Okay. I thought she came and got some stuff, but I was asleep and I just I heard I thought I heard her way. I might have I don't know. I thought I heard her coming cuz some But the rest of her stuff's still there. >> Yeah. >> My sister would have been asleep if she was there, but she had the keys. I hadn't changed the locks on the door yet. >> Okay. So, you last saw Haley on Thursday. >> Yeah. >> And you last saw Heather on Friday, but you thought she came back Saturday? >> Yes. I thought I saw her in the Dodge Journey, which is the other vehicle because Jeff I took Jeff, he came by the house on Friday to come get for them to go to work on the base. >> Mhm. >> So then Heather said, "I don't feel good." Cuz I didn't realize she had got into it with Haley. Yeah. >> And that's why I didn't know Haley was gone >> until Friday. >> And I was like, "Well, where'd she go?" And she's like, "Well, she'll be back." And I'm like, "Okay." And everyone's like, "Where's Heather?" So I don't know. And they both And then they're both gone. I'm like, "Well, they must be gone together because they're both gone." >> Yeah. >> And they have Haley's new track phone [snorts] and I got the bill and I can't even call anybody cuz my phones don't work. So I imagine everybody's phone doesn't work. >> Okay. >> That's on our the plan that they were on or whatever that they put me on that I'm still holding a bag with. >> Yeah. >> So I don't know. I'm just scared. I'm worried. I don't want to be involved in this crazy anymore. I'm just like I just wanted it to stop and I'm not the one. The kids keep getting involved and they're like grown-ups and they come over and they're like, "Well, she does this all the time." And then it's like, "Well, how long she gone?" It's like she she said I'll be back in an hour. I was gone for a week last time she did it. So I'm like, "Well, whenever she gets done fighting with her other boyfriend." Oh, he beat me up and comes over to my house. So what does that mean? You guys are out of drugs and money and now you're over here hitting me up again. >> Yeah, that's exactly what I think is happening. That's why I was like I don't I don't know. There's a lot of weird really weird things that have been happening that were inconsistent. She's been screaming and yelling at my neighbor. >> All of them. >> When was that? [snorts] >> Like >> all the time. >> It just got worse here recently. Like just before they went missing. That's why I was freaking out because I said, "You're over here calling our neighbors baby killer." Like cuz like this guy supposedly had a relationship with my sister and I was talking to the cops. I go, "What can they do?" And they go, "Well, you can't you can't not let she's an adult." And I go, "Okay, well then they're like she she let them in the house. She had several people in the house. They ate up like two months worth of food." And I was like, "What happened in here?" And we're like, I asked my sister and she's just like I was like, "Did you ate like 2 months worth of food in like less than two weeks?" So I'm going that's an awful lot of food since me and Heather have been here and you haven't been here. And all of a sudden all that food's gone. >> I told her not to leave. The cops said just don't let her leave. She's letting these guys in our house. I don't know how many I don't those guys live right literally through my backyard. The fence is like trampled down. I'm like literally. So then she cuts all the trees down about screaming and yelling at him baby. I'm drinking like can you stop doing that? Cuz that's literally I I own the house. Like these people. >> Does Heather contribute anything to the home? Does she buy anything? No. >> No. >> It's just just you. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> My sister was getting a check for her disability. >> Yeah. and my my mother was overpaid. >> So, they completely stopped her check. So, I was like, I'm tired of people acting like I'm living off my sister. So, I was like, I hadn't [clears throat] done my taxes, haven't >> it on purpose. My sister was making a little money when she worked. She was working at the laundry mat she worked at for seven years, but she quit. >> Mhm. That's when I'm like trying to figure out like what really happened because this is when Heather comes into the picture. My sister was dating a guy from Ukraine and his sister has a transportation system. So she's like just fabricating, oh they're transporting little kids and I said, "You have no proof of that. They're probably actually trying to help people." Like >> Yeah. >> Cuz my I was in a church. We did missionary work. I taught vacation pool. >> Yeah. like we help build people's houses. >> Your was your sister was she on social media at all? Instagram, Facebook, anything like that? >> She deletes everything out of her phone. I've tried I've been working on this for 4 years with her. I was like I didn't know her level of um intelligence because she did my mom stuck her in like special ed because she thought if she got a if her IQ was over 48 that she would get less money for her social security check. And I go, "No, that's not how that works." Cuz my my stepdad was married to a lady who's like work source innovation for the special for specialies and handicap or the deaf and blind out of St. Augustine and stuff like that. So I'm like it's not I don't know. I'm just I'm overwhel I've been trying to save my sister since I was 12. But like I said with Heather and her boyfriend who's a hacker, I was like you're not making me feel any better, guys. like I'm out of money. I'm left holding the bag. My sister's gone. I'm feeling like you guys have just worked me over. So like my best thing is do is like turn 180 and and and get away from me people and change. That's why they were like here change the locks. They go I didn't I'm not scared. I mean I'm scared like scared of them but like not scared of like somebody trying to kill me or like breaking my house. Why are you scared of them? Have they ever threatened you with a weapon or anything like that? >> No, but they I'm scared of them like what they've been doing to me. Like they've been har being harassed. Not >> taking advantage of you. It sounds like >> taken advantage of. Let me say scared. I'm definitely being taken advantage of. >> Yeah. >> And I'm like in a negative account. So I'm like, did they hack my accounts? I'm like I don't >> Yeah. >> I'm freaked out cuz like I've never had this >> Yeah. I've never had I mean I have had these kind of people in my life but I thought they were just people like my mom and I got away from them and I realized that >> there's a lot of these people out there. >> So what what's on your front porch? >> I don't know. That's Heather brought and the kids brought back. >> What do you What do you mean Heather and the kids? >> Her her ex-boyfriend came over. I don't sit on the front porch. I don't know what it is. >> Okay. I don't sit out there. I don't smoke cigarettes. I'm inside. >> Okay. >> Usually listening to music or watching my Netflix or playing on my phone. >> Okay. Have you noticed like an odor or anything? >> Yeah, I did. And I thought it was a dead rat. There was a ped Heather did this last time. She put um we had stuff in the grocery store. Hamburger meat, cheese, butter. It was in the back of the truck. I smelled it for I could I smelled it for a week. Mhm. >> I was like, "What is that smell? Something's dead." >> Yeah. >> And that's the bucket that's sitting there. And I thought it was just coming from that because the wind changed and it was garbage day. Everyone's like doing the the Fourth of July. >> Yeah. >> I don't eat meat very often. >> Okay. >> So, it's not my >> What do you usually eat? >> Like I eat vegetables, salad. I'm like I said, I had to go like all organic and gluten-free to figure out figure out what was what was the problem. >> Yeah, >> cuz it's from doing like antibiotics and stuff. >> What kind of car do you drive? You drive the Subaru. >> Mhm. >> Okay. >> At this stage, the detective is no longer testing isolated details. He is testing whether Shannon's entire account can survive the evidence surrounding it. The earlier conflict, the location of the body, the timeline, and now the gunshot question all begin converging. Shannon can still offer explanations for individual details, but the psychological pressure comes from something much harder, explaining why all of those details point in the same direction. >> Joey and Heather and her other kids live in another house over there off of third. I showed the police a picture of the it's like off of it's it's not a great neighborhood. Okay. >> Um but they live over there all together in one house and I thought okay so you are running from one problem to another. You came into my house the first time and was like bam and like never left. So I was like what are you trying to do here like move in? I tried to move in and take over and take my sister's check and that's why I stopped the check and I was like she doesn't have any money and now I'm out of money which I'm in I have a pension and 401k and stuff like that. So I was like yeah I've been totally totally targeted. And then she kept saying well if something happens to you some Heather this came from Heather. She's like, "If there something happens to you, I'll take I'll take care of your sister." And I was like, "Okay." And she's like, "Well, if you go to jail, you if something happens," cuz we had that fight back in January where I went to jail. And then she's like, "Well, I'll pay your house payment. I just need the information." And then the same thing, my sister, she asked this twice. And I was like, >> "You don't need to be on my mortgage. Like, yeah, >> what are you trying to do here?" Like, why would I? I was like, "My stuff's already autopaid. I don't need you to help me with my bills. Like, if anything, you've helped me not with my bills." >> Yeah. >> And she's done this to everybody. The guy that's the guy Jeff and Joey. >> Mhm. >> They said she's done the same thing. They rack up She racks up their credit, screws them up, and then like is in debt, and now they're like living paycheck to paycheck working for her. She supposedly reverended this guy, too, and was like, "Oh, yeah. I'm gonna go to jail. I need $4,000 cash. I go, why don't you use your insurance? Oh, well, you know, I let it rate lapse. I go, you told me this every month. You let your insurance laugh and you've lost your license every month. >> Yeah. >> So, so then this guy wants $4,000 cash. He go I was like, so I'm not going to give you $4,000 cash. I'm not the one that rear ended the guy. >> Yeah. No, >> but that's what she was trying to get at. And and then it was like just and then she got paid and then she bought her daughter a car and just it just the stories. >> Do does Heather know that you know about all these boyfriends and stuff? Like does she tell you about oh I went and saw Joey or Jeff? >> Yeah, I think she she knows about Joey cuz I I the sons they thought they were going to tell get her in trouble and get her kicked out on my house when they told on her. They told the ex-boyfriends about each other and then that's how I figured out. >> What do you see? Look closely at Shannon's story. What do you think really happened to Heather? Was Shannon truly unaware of what was happening around her, or was she leaving something out? Drop your theory in the comments. And if you want more interrogation breakdowns, hidden details, and psychological analysis, like the video and subscribe to Verdict Interrogation for