and she wanted me to calm him down. >> Okay. >> So, I that's what I tried doing. >> You've already locked yourself into the biggest lie. Here's your chance to unwind it and tell the truth. Did you walk in the back bedroom? >> No. They came out before I could even make it back there. Why? Okay. >> Well, Tom was shot and killed. Spoiler details are in the video description and the full results of all charges in the case are laid out at the end of the video. >> Uh Deborah Frasier, how do you know her start from when you you know I guess how you know her and how long you've known her and stuff like that. >> She and I met in late 2012. She and I were in a relationship for about 10 years or more. >> Okay. boyfriend and girlfriend. >> Okay. Did uh Did you guys break up then? I think it >> No. >> Oh, are you currently still boyfriend and girlfriend? >> Technically, yes. But I I I >> Did I guess my question is, did you know that she was living with another guy on Sandhurst? >> Was there anybody else living in this apartment? Anybody by the names of Allison and Carol? >> No. >> There was nobody else. >> Who did she tell you she lived with? >> Two women named Allison and Carol? >> No. Did Had you ever been over to her apartment? >> No. >> Okay. She lived with a guy by the name of Tom Wadell. That name sound familiar? >> She recently mentioned an individual named Mr. Wadell, not his first name. >> Okay, >> I can show you that conversation. >> What did she say about him? She said that he was experiencing some kind of Alzheimer's or dementia. >> Okay. What What do you mean by that? I mean, did she elaborate on I I guess why would she bring that up to you? >> She said that she was worried about his state of mind. >> Mhm. >> She said that she needed help with calming him down. >> Okay. She asked me if I would act basically play a part. She She told me to She told me to talk to him and to calm him down and she said it was because he has Alzheimer's and dementia or did have it. >> Okay. What why what brought that up? But I mean, what were you guys in person? Did you meet him or were you on the phone or how did how did this play out? >> On the phone. She said all this because he was apparently when a person has Alzheimer's dementia, they get confused, they get irritable, they get irrational. >> Okay. >> And she wanted me to calm him down. >> Okay. >> So, I that's what I tried doing. And >> how long ago was this? >> Just about Yesterday was Thursday, right? >> Yes. >> So I >> I'm so sorry. It's hitting me so hard. It I think it was Wednesday. >> Okay. Well, tell me more about that. >> I was at Starbucks. She she said that Mr. Wadell I didn't get his first name at first, but she said Mr. Wadell was acting irrational or >> what Starbucks were you at? >> The one in downtown. >> Okay. >> You remember about what time that was? >> I don't honestly remember. I'm sorry. It >> would have been lunchtime, dinner time. >> Closer to lunchtime. >> Okay. >> About 2 or 3 p.m. I think. >> Okay. Tell me more about that conversation. Did you call her? Did she call you? She called me through a text. She messaged me. >> Okay. >> Can I just show you the conversation? >> Yeah. And we'll get to that in a minute. >> Okay. >> I just want you to tell me from the best of your memory about that and then ultimately um we want to be able to download your phone and get that message because that's it. It it'll be in its truest form. You know, nothing nothing shaky. You know what I mean? So, tell me what you can remember about that. She text you, wanted you to calm this person down. Correct. >> That is correct. >> Okay. Tell me more about what happened after that. >> After that, >> what did you get on the phone and talk to him? >> No, I left him a voicemail >> on What did she do? Give you his number or >> And it's okay, buddy. >> I honestly don't remember. I I really am trying to give you the exact details as it happened, but I >> This is all hitting me so suddenly. >> Okay. >> This is all hitting me entirely out of nowhere. I'm trying. I really am. >> Yeah, that's fine. >> I feel like I would be able to give you more accurate information if I could just give you my phone. >> Okay. If you want to pull it out and let's look at it and then but we still want to download it and get that message too. Is that okay? >> Yeah, you can use that to refresh your memory. I don't care. But I'm going to I'm going to scoot up here beside you. Just like I said, don't ever erase anything or take anything back. >> It hasn't been erased yet. [snorts] >> Yeah. Don't don't do anything like that. >> So, do you keep all your messages with her? >> I mean, I will delete my messages once every three or six months, something like that. But >> yeah, no problem. I have everything. I'm trying my best to find the spot where she was talking about it. Okay, here it is. I'm stuck here. >> Okay, so you care about how thous it starts right there. You can look through it. the green messages that you >> Yes, I am the one. >> Okay. Yes, >> that's fine. So, we'll just do that right here. Um, so I kind of see where you're at. She she wanted you to call this guy and said he's calmed down and then at at some point you meet up with her. Was that a phone call that says, "Hey, come pick me up." Uh, where did you pick her up at and how was she acting when she got Why did she ask you to come pick her up? >> She seemed very tense, nervous, anxious. >> And I know you I know you know what that means and I know what it means by the verb, but how you're saying that. Can you describe? >> She is somebody who has experienced panic attacks or anxiety attacks in the past. >> Yeah. So, I thought that's what she was having. I thought I was just helping her take the chance to calm down. >> Mhm. So, she was upset then. >> She did most certainly seem upset. >> Describe that a little in more detail if you can. You know what I mean? >> She seemed very evasive about the subject. She wouldn't tell me about it. >> What subject? >> I don't know. I I tried asking her why why are you upset and she wouldn't tell me. >> Okay. and she called her counselor to talk about it or she said that it was her counselor. I don't know who she called because when she said that she needed to call somebody, she went off in private. She needed a private space to talk and I I honestly she said it was her counselor, but at this point I don't know. >> And that was after you picked her up. >> Yes. >> Was that like at the apartment complex or did you drive her somewhere? >> We drove to Dresden. We're at in Dresden >> near the high school. There is an old bridge that's not being used. You can go underneath it. There is a gazebo down there and there's a big parking lot down there. We went there. >> Did So, were you in a lot or was she in a gazebo or where specifically? >> We started out in the lot. We walked over to the gazebo. Uh she and I saw a police officer coming over. So, Honestly, I just thought that when you're at a place like that after dark, they don't want you there. >> So, it was dark when you got there? >> Yes. >> Was it dark when you picked her up? >> When I picked her up from Sanders, I I think it was close to dark. I don't really know how dark it was. >> Mhm. Okay, that's fine. And that's your recollection? >> That is correct. I'm only trying to give you my honest recollection here. Okay. So, what made you decide to drive to Dresden? Did she request that? >> She did. The reason why is because in a town like this, there is not always a lot to do at night. And every now and then, I myself will take little drives throughout the countryside just to get fresh air. I thought that's what she wanted. I just thought she wanted to get some fresh air. I thought she wanted to get out of the house. >> Okay. What happened from there? Who she said? Did you hear her actually talking to anybody on the phone? >> I did not know. >> So, you don't know if she actually called anybody or not? >> I I don't know. >> But she said that she was calling her coun. >> She said that. Yes. >> Okay. What happened after that? >> She and I drove back to Oakland. We did stop at the gas station on North Point because she did not want to use the bathroom at our house. I honestly don't know what time we went to that gas station. >> What gas station on North Point? >> The BP Duchess gas station. >> Is it the new one that they built? >> The newer one? Yes. >> Right there at Newark Road. >> That is also correct. I think that one was Newark Road as well. >> Okay. >> It's the intersection of Newark and North Point. >> Okay. So, did you go in or just She went in? >> I went in. I sat down at the table by the front doors. They have [clears throat] these tables where customers can sit and eat their food. >> So, I just sat there and I waited for her to use the bathroom. >> Okay. >> After that, she and I went back to the house on Oakland and >> we just went to sleep. We went to bed. >> Did you guys sleep in the same room? >> We did. Same bed. >> Not the same bed. No. >> Okay. Do you guys play PlayStation or anything? >> Right. We play PlayStation and Xbox. We did not play on Wednesday night, Thursday morning. >> I stay up late. That's why I mentioned uh Wednesday night going into Thursday morning because I I stay awake into the late hours. >> So, you didn't you guys didn't play games together then? Wednesday night? >> Not that night. No. >> What night did you play games together? Before then, I have been trying my hardest to talk her into playing with me, but she had not been wanting to. >> Okay. So, you guys played no video games whatsoever together. >> Wednesday night or Thursday? >> Wednesday night and Thursday night. No. >> Okay. That's that's the only thing I was asking about. >> I thought that we were going to, but we we decided not to. >> Was she at uh your house all night Wednesday night? I on Wednesday night I woke up at around 700 pm. I know that's a late time to wake up, but that's just >> Wednesday night. You woke up around 7 p.m. >> I did. That is correct. I woke up at 7:00 p.m. and I think she called me. Is it okay if I check my call logs? Yeah, I can check that. >> Yeah. And show me what you need. Okay. >> Okay. Yesterday was Thursday. August 9th was Wednesday. Is that correct? Okay. So, >> she tried calling me around 5:26 p.m. >> Okay. But then I actually talked to her around 6:51 p.m. >> Okay. >> And then we had two more conversations >> at 7:29 p.m. >> Mhm. >> Then another at 10:14 p.m. >> Okay. >> When would you have gone and picked her up? I I honestly think it was around 7:30 or 7:45 because that conversation happened around 7:30. >> Why would she call you at 10:14 and then later at 10:52 >> when when she was in private talking to whoever she was talking to. >> She then called me and said that she was done with her conversation. >> That would have been at 10:14. That's when he was in Dresden, >> I think. Okay. >> I think so. >> Okay. >> I'm I really am trying my hardest to give you exactly how it is. I remember it. >> Okay. >> I I I just I can't I I honestly can't believe this is happening. >> Okay. But then the one What's the one at 10:52? >> That might have been another conversation that she was having with somebody on the phone. Where would that have been at? >> We were also at my house on Oakland. There is a garage next door. >> Well, I saw the garage, >> right? It's a really big one, not the small one behind our house. And she was in there having a conversation with somebody. >> When would the uh when you guys went to the Duke station? >> I That was That was before we went to bed. So, I think that was around midnight or 1:00 a.m. And that's just me trying to remember. I don't know the exact time you went to that gas station. >> Okay. Okay. So, the next morning, what happens when you go to get up on Thursday morning? Yesterday morning. on Thursday. It must have been around, listen again, I'm sorry for only having a range here, but it must have been around 10:00 a.m. or noon on Thursday. >> And I took her back to her apartment and I dropped her off in the parking lot. Again, I did not go inside the building at all. I didn't go inside the apartment. Mhm. >> Once I was done dropping her off, >> I came back home >> and I think I went back to sleep for a short while, just an hour or two maybe. >> Mhm. >> And then I tried getting a hold of her. I tried calling her. I tried texting her. I tried getting a hold of her through Messenger, uh, Facebook, I mean. >> And I I couldn't hear anything about her. I I couldn't get a hold of her at all. Did uh I mean if you know something more than what you're telling me, >> we went to Blackhand. She and I were at Blackhand Gorge on Thursday. That is correct. I'm not trying to leave out information. Okay. >> I'll be honest with you. I'm not >> I don't know how to defend her >> cuz I don't know how. We went to Blackand. We went to Blackand. That's a fact. We went there. >> Was that right before you dropped her off? I think so. >> I would know what I did yesterday. Was Was everything okay? >> You know what I mean? >> Don't do that. I She She's apparently getting charged with murder. >> Mhm. >> And that's why it's important because you're telling me you don't really remember and like it was just someone's going to ask me. They're like say, "Well, that was just yesterday. How does he know?" You know what I mean? Does that does that make sense to you? >> None of this makes a lot of sense to me. I'll be honest with you. >> Okay. So, all right. Just so what's going on? What happened yesterday? And this I don't want to put words into your mouth or anything. So, this is just in your own words. Uh that's why we record everything. That way, we don't miss anything. We want to get the best accurate description of what happened and what was going on. Okay. So, [clears throat] >> okay. the day before yesterday. >> Mhm. >> Um Tom and I were >> So the day before yesterday, we're talking about Wednesday the 9th, correct? >> I believe so. >> Okay. >> Um because we were waiting on the maintenance guy to change the light up. >> Okay. >> As soon as he did that, I decided to go take a walk. I asked Tom if you mind if I just hung out with a friend for a while, maybe spent the night, >> just kind of get some fresh air. >> Okay. >> Cuz I have trouble with anxiety sometimes and so sometimes taking walks or just getting out helps and he's usually really good about that. Okay. >> So, I went out for a while and then I got a hold of my friend Johnny Henderson. >> Okay. >> And um [clears throat] asked him if if he wanted to hang out and we drove around for a while and then I ended up asking him if I could just spend the night. We play video games. We watch TV. He's an old friend from my early college years. >> Okay. >> That's how I know him. >> Okay. >> And then yesterday, I had tried to contact Tom. I texted him. I called him [clears throat and cough] and I never heard back, which was weird cuz normally he's pretty good about good to me. >> Okay. And so Johnny and I took a walk at [clears throat] Blackhand Gorge. >> Okay. >> And um I decided to just I wanted to go back to the apartment. I was getting a little worried about Tom. I hadn't heard back from him. So I got out and I noticed trucks Tom's truck was still in the parking lot. >> That red one. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> And Tom never really goes anywhere without his truck. He's always one of those he drives himself or he doesn't really go. >> Mhm. >> So I w I walked in, I saw the cleaning lady. She was just wrapping up. >> Okay. >> Um and I walked to the door and I noticed it was unlocked. >> Okay. And >> yeah, I think I might have I thought he before he said it, you had to unlock the door, >> but I I could have been mistaken. >> And so I just figured Tom might have forgot to lock it, okay, >> at some point. [clears throat] >> So I went in and that's when I noticed that the whole apartment was tossed upside down. >> Okay. And I wasn't really sure what was going on. My mind was going in just a million different directions. >> Okay. >> Um I saw that the light in the spare bedroom was on. I saw the light in the bedroom was on and I decided to call 911. >> Okay. >> Because I was worried that someone had tried to rob us [snorts] or what whatever was going on. And I didn't see Tom right away. >> Okay. And so I was making my way back to the bedroom, but I glanced where Tom's phone normally lays. It wasn't there. I glanced in the uh for bedroom where he usually puts all his stuff like his wallet, his everything. >> And [clears throat] it wasn't there. And I was kind of like I was thinking maybe he stepped out. Maybe he went with family or something. >> Okay. Does he have family up here >> in Cincinnati? >> Okay. >> And so I hadn't even made it to the bedroom yet. And there was two guys masks who came out. >> And at that time the 911 operator was telling me to back [clears throat] into the hall. >> But I was so scared. I bet I kept backing up and eventually the one asalent pulled out a gun and got close enough to me and fired it off and they both bolted. >> Mhm. >> Where they went to after they bolted out the door. I don't know where they went to cuz at that point I was shot and I was in pain. >> Where where did they come out of >> the back bedroom? >> Can you describe the suspects to me? The one I got a good look at, he had a black ski mask on. I could tell through the eyehole he was white and he had a Mossio green hoodie. >> Okay. >> And jeans from what I could tell. The other guy didn't get a good look at. >> What is the other What's as far as that first guy we're talking about here? Was he a tall, short, heavy set, skinny? Can you describe his description? >> He was probably a little taller than I am. >> How tall are you? >> 5'3, 5'4. >> Okay. So, think he's 5'5, 5'6. >> I guess he wasn't as tall as Tom. And Tom's 6'5. >> Okay. >> And he was built. I mean, I could tell he had muscles, but other than that, I couldn't tell you much else about him. >> Okay. I was just trying not to get shot, but I didn't get shot anyways. >> Okay. And you say he was built. >> Yeah. Like when you looked at something, you can kind of tell sometimes. >> Yeah. That's we need to get the best description possible so you know what [clears throat] we're looking for. So as far as number two guy, give me the best description you can of him. the best description that I can recall at the moment. He was slender and he wore mask too and he pushed past me before the first guy shot me. >> Mhm. >> And I was so focused on the first guy with the gun I didn't even get a good look at the second guy. >> Okay. Remember any type of clothing he was wearing? >> Not not really. I I can't [music] be 100% sure. >> Okay. Um, number one guy. So, he's the one that had the gun. >> Yes. >> Where did the gun come from? >> I don't know where he got that gun. >> I mean, where did he have the gun? That's what >> he had it in his hand when he came towards me. That's how >> Do you remember which hand? >> Right. >> What did his hand look like? >> He had gloves on. >> Kind of gloves. like those black um motocross grip things that had the little rubber pieces on them. >> Okay. >> Cuz I thought that was odd. >> What did the gun look like? >> I think it was dark from what I remember. >> Was it a semi-automatic or revolver? Could you tell the difference? >> It was like a Clint Eastwood gun. >> Okay. What did they say? Did they say anything? >> They didn't say anything. They I think they were just trying to get out of there because they I don't think they expected and wanted to >> Did you have to do anything? Did you do anything to them or anything like that? >> I just tried to keep the gun away from me. I'm >> How did you do that? >> I grabbed a hold of it and I was trying to point it away from me cuz I didn't want to get shot and I was scared. How did you grab a hold of it? >> From what I remember, I grabbed it at the bottom and I grabbed around the whatever he called the long piece. >> Did you do it with each hand? So, which hand of yours touched the guy? Both. >> Yeah, this one touched where you hold it. >> Mhm. [clears throat] So, you touch the handle. >> Yeah. What about your left hand? >> It touched whatever that long piece is. >> The barrel >> where the thing spins. >> Oh, the cylinder. >> I I don't know how >> like you're saying the things. I know what you're talking about. The the round part where the bullets are at, >> right? I know Tom collects guns. I don't know if it was one of his or what. >> Okay. What kinds of guns does he collect? >> Tom collects um well, I think he has a couple pistols and I know he has a few rifles and he has a >> Yeah. >> Um a bow a bow and arrow, I think. [clears throat] >> Um but yeah, he collects that kind of stuff. >> Okay. Um now, I know you started this off by saying that you had anxiety on Wednesday the 9th. What did you have anxiety about? I had been failing my school classes and I had been told that I was just getting dropped from the program. >> What What school are you to? >> I do it online. It's called Full Cell University. >> Full Cell. >> F U L L S A I L. >> Oh, what are you doing for them? >> Creative writing. >> Oh, okay. So, that kind of made you have anxiety then. Where's that out of? I've never heard of >> uh Florida, I think. Winter Park. Yeah. You're from Florida, right? [music] >> Well, I'm originally from Ohio. I went to Florida and I came back because, uh, Tom asked me to come live with him. So, >> u, as far as living there, are you on a lease or anything? >> No, I'm not. >> Do you pay any of the bills or anything like that? >> No. Tom and I have a joint account and any money that I make from odds and ends goes into that account. >> Okay. Which uh which account's that? a PNC account. >> Okay. So, and then you left on Wednesday. What time did you leave on Wednesday? >> It was probably around 4. >> Okay. >> Because I remember we were watching some ghost show on TV and I glanced at the clock and cuz Tom was talking about >> What was the ghost show about? Um, Zach. I think the lead guy's name is Zach. It's some ghost show. Tom likes to watch it for comedy relief. >> You know what? Uh, channel, it's on. >> Maybe Discovery or something like that. Okay. Um, so you left at 400 p.m. with Johnny Henderson. No, >> at 4 I just I decided to head on out and go for a walk. >> Where did you go for a walk to? >> I left the apartment complex and I went right up military. And then what I did was I >> When you say up military, is that towards like the city or back towards North Point? I think it's North Point because when you leave the complex, >> you turn right or left. >> I turned right. >> So you walk down towards like Bear Heritage Credit Union that the road like the fourlane >> where like All right. You go and then the road splits and you can go left towards like Dylan and [music] then >> Yeah. Yeah. Yep. >> Yeah. So I just walk down that way just because sometimes walking helps clear my head, right? Definitely understand that. Going for a nice walk always helps out. How far did you walk and where did you walk to that day? >> Let's see. I walked kind of past the nursing home thing that >> by the oaks. I think that's what it's called. >> I think so. Okay. >> And I walked through I got through the field and then I went right down like a little alleyway type >> road. >> Mhm. And then it wasn't until later that I called Johnny Anderson. >> Okay. When did you call Johnny? >> I honestly don't remember the exact time. Um I'm trying to think cuz >> Yeah, I get it. I called I mean I called and kind of shot out the breeze with a few people I knew from Florida. Just talk to them saying, "Hey, what's up?" >> Mhm. >> And then after that, I went ahead and called Johnny. >> Okay. Where's Johnny live at? >> Oakland. >> Oakland Avenue. >> Yes. >> Is that the one out by Gant? >> There's a baseball field. >> It's off Taylor, ain't it? I honestly don't know. >> Is it by the other nursing home? >> It's I know you go past the ball field to get there. >> The oldtimes ballfield >> has a big parking lot. >> It's just a big ball field. I didn't look at the sign cuz I'm thinking of Oakland down there. Do you know Johnny's phone number? >> Not off the top of my head. It's in my phone. >> Okay. >> And like I said, we drove to Frysburg. We drove to Dresden and I just told him, you know, that I had >> Was it light or dark out when you guys did that? >> It was light and then it got darker and we just kept driving around and listen music and >> Do you remember about what time you guys were out driving around >> roughly? We just ask you, >> right? >> We we ask all these questions because that's >> they they required us to do that. So that's why we're asking you all this stuff. >> It's okay. I'm just trying to remember exactly what's >> cuz we don't know if somebody saw you the day before following you. Uh things like that. We want to I mean when somebody shoots somebody, we got to know to try to figure out how they why they shot you. So >> yeah, >> the night. So we're still on Wednesday the 9th. Uh you guys drove to Fraserburg and Dresden. >> Where did Where did he pick you up at? He picked me up near Sandhurst because it was u the only landmark I could really figure out to tell him where to pick me up. >> Has he ever been to Tom's house before? >> No, he's never been. >> Okay. So, he picked you up near What kind of car does he drive? >> A white Prius. >> Do you know whose car is it? His car or his parents' car? >> It's his car. >> Okay. Uh, so you guys go to Fraserberg, Dresden, and then what? >> Um, and then we eventually come back to Zanesville. Okay. >> He asked me if he did if I just want to be dropped off at the apartment. I told him, you know, I just asked him, can we just go back to his place and just like play some games? And >> why didn't you want to go back to the apartment? I just figured a night away was, you know, because I like to play video games and Tom doesn't. So, I like to play video games with Johnny and other people who are kind of into that kind of thing. >> Did you have your own video games you took or does he have the games or how'd that work out? >> I have a PlayStation 4 and he has an Xbox. >> Did you take your PlayStation over there? >> Yeah. >> Okay. But where's it at now? >> It's still at his place. >> Okay. >> And then yesterday, um, I got him up around noon. >> Okay. >> Um, and then we went to Blackhand Gorge and we walked for a little while and I decided I wanted to go back to the apartment cuz like I said, >> whose idea was it to do to Blackhand Gorge? I had asked them either Dylan Dam or Blackhand Gorge because I knew they had a good walking path. >> Okay. So, when you left on Wednesday at around 400 p.m. to take a walk, did you ever go back to the apartment until you got shot? >> I popped in briefly to get my backpack just so I could put the PlayStation in it, but that was >> When was that? Uh, it was before 4:30. >> Oh, on Wednesday. >> Yeah. >> So, you left at 4 to take a little walk. You came back. Then before 4:30, you grabbed your backpack. Okay, that makes sense. But you and then you never returned after that. >> So, no, you didn't. >> No, I didn't. >> How was the apartment when you went back to get your uh backpack? Everything was fine. There was nothing out of place. Everything seemed to be in order. >> Okay. So, you went did all that, stayed at where what kind of house does Johnny live in? >> Um, well, it's twostory. There's a basement. >> I mean, what color? >> Oh, sorry. It's a white house. who all lives there? >> His dad, his brother, and >> who's his dad and his brother, do you know? >> Uh Johnny Anderson senior and Tyler Anderson, I believe. And then Tyler's girlfriend, uh Melissa Hancock. Okay. >> How long were you guys at Blackhand Gorge? trying to z cuz we we walked until we got to where there's like a a wooden stepping area >> that has the two signs saying, you know, Lake Eerie and Blackhand Gorge. It's like two picture signs kind of giving you information about the place. We walked to there and it was just really humid out and also I just wanted to get back to the apartment. >> So you go there. So you're there go there about noon and how long are you there? >> I'm trying to think how long it took us to walk that cuz we walked to that point and then we walked back. >> I could I honestly couldn't tell you how long that was and then we drove back. >> Okay. [clears throat] Uh, what's the route you took to get there >> to go back to the apartment? >> No. How did you get the black hand gorge to begin with? >> I'm trying to think. I think we went past the BP that uh one gas station. I think it's on Newark Road maybe. >> Mhm. >> And [clears throat] then there's a Dollar General. It's a little further ways up. And I know we went past that. Uh, beyond that, I don't really remember the >> So, you stayed on that road that goes >> straight >> on 146. State Route 146 Newark Road. >> Yeah, I believe. So, I don't really know the name of the road. >> And then when you get to Blackhand Gorge, where did you guys stop at there? Cuz I I've never been there. Have you? >> No. >> So, I don't know exactly where you're talking about. >> Um, there is a parking lot >> that you can park in and then basically you walk around like [clears throat] the restrooms. >> Did you guys park in the parking lot? >> Yes. >> And you guys were in a white Prius? >> Yes. >> Was anyone else with you? >> No. But there were other vehicles in the lot. Um I went to the bathroom and he stood outside and then we went and we walked the path. >> Mhm. >> And then eventually we turn >> How far did you walk on the path? There's a like a wooden path that leads to kind of like a a balcony type area >> that has two signs. I believe one said Lake Erie and the other one said um Blackhand Gorge something. >> So you got you go back to the apartment. What what's he do then? Or what do you guys do then? >> Um I just had him drop me off in front of the building. Okay. And did he leave or did he stay? >> Um, I'm pretty sure he left and then that's when I walked in and everything else unfolded. >> Okay. What kind of people do you think would do something like this? Why do you think they'd target [music] Tom? >> I know he was having issues with his soon to be ex-wife. >> Who's that? >> Callie Burns. He's still technically married. But >> what kind of issues was he having with her? >> She was just very uh what's the word? Uh she had a lot of anger management issues and she was cheating on him. So they ended up separating. >> Okay. Do you think she would be the type of person to do something like this? What? To break in and then shoot me? >> Yeah. >> I don't know. >> I mean, you're saying it was two guys. >> What do you think they were doing? What do you think they were up to? >> It's hard to tell, honestly. I I don't know. When, like I said, when I walked in, everything was all thrown about and >> Oh, can he take a picture? Do they have it bandaged up? You're at wound now. >> They do. seen you take a picture of it. >> I don't know if they got a good picture yesterday. Um, how like can you pull the bandage up or is it on their good? And like you don't if it's on their good, don't worry about it. >> It's on their good. >> Okay, let let's not worry about that. So, whenever we catch these people, what do you think should happen to them? >> I think they should pay for the crime. I mean, I didn't do anything that anyone would get deserve to be shot and >> and I don't know why anyone would tear up another person's place like that. >> Mhm. [clears throat] >> I mean, what what's the what's punishment do you think that they should receive? I mean, that's what we try to gauge. So, when we let the prosecutor's office know on how you feel and what uh what do you think should happen, you know, that lets them know up front >> what they need to aim for. I mean, you think they should spend life in prison, think they should be sentenced to death? I mean, anything like that? >> I don't know how Tom feels about it, but I feel that they should at least go to jail for a long time. Shooting someone, I could have been killed. When was the last time you ever fired a gun? >> Last time I ever fired a gun [clears throat] >> when I was wrestling trying to get the gun pointed away from me. I had a hold of it when it went off. >> Okay. Prior to that one would be the last time before that. Before that, I had never fired a gun like loaded and everything because I know nothing about them. I couldn't load one if you said everything in front of me. Tom was trying to teach me about gun safety and all that just in case uh self-defense and stuff like that. >> And I mean, he showed me how to load like one of his pistols. So, I mean, but I don't remember exactly, >> but you never shot a gun before, correct? >> Correct. >> Okay. Uh, and the first time that you'd been around one shot was just yesterday. Correct. >> Correct. >> And that was at 1:30 p.m. roughly is when you called 911. >> But you don't know the times. Yeah, that's that's what time the call came in. It was right around 1:30 p.m. Um, did you recognize any that did the guys seem familiar to you that were there? >> It happened so fast that honestly I don't know if I had seen them around. I know that there's sketchy people in the building. >> Like the guy across the street does drug kills and the people upstairs, they drink and they go on and on and on. But I I don't >> Well, what do you think happened to Tom? >> I honestly don't know. I even tried calling today. >> Does Tom have a cell phone? >> Yes. >> What kind of phone does he have? >> Um, it's like an Android. >> Do you know his phone number? 740607160. >> Okay. Uh, did you walk in the back bedroom? >> No, they came out before I could even make it back there. Why? >> Okay. Well, Tom was shot and killed. Sorry. You can take a minute. [snorts] >> All right, Debbie, let's talk. Let's talk about this. Okay. It's all right. Look at Look at me. Who do you Who do you think killed him? >> Don't know. >> Let me ask you this, and I'm going to ask you to be 100% honest with me. Did you have something to do with his death? >> No. I would. >> Okay. So, let me let me explain this to you, Deborah. And I'm going to be as straight as possible. I've probably been a cop now for about 20 years. This isn't the first murder investigation that I've ever handled. It's not going to be the last. When we start our investigation, we look at every angle. We look into every possible situation, possible scenario, and everything that you tell us, we go and follow up with. Okay. Would you have an issue if we looked inside of your phone? Do you have a password on it? What's your password? And it's all right. I can tell you what it is. It's 6813. We did a search warrant on your phone. Okay. So, that means we knew what what you searched for and what you did and where you've been. So, on the night of Wednesday, something happened. I don't know exactly what happened in that apartment between you and Tom, but I know that you're the one that's responsible for his death. >> I have not. >> Why are you searching? How long does gunshot residue stay on my hands? Yesterday morning at 8:00 in the morning. >> Listen, you did. >> I did. Debbie search records. How long does GSR stay on skin? Yesterday morning at 8:16 in the morning. Lake County, Florida court records from Skinium County Court Records. I'm telling you, we already know the questions today or the answers to the questions we're asking you. Here's your chance to get your side of the story out. If there was something going on that caused this, you need to tell us right now. But you have more knowledge than what you're saying. There was no home invasion robbery. Okay? There was absolutely none. So, you've already locked yourself into the biggest lie. Here's your chance to unwind it and tell the truth because you only have one shot at this. And here's your shot to tell us what really happened so that we can look into it. Was there something going on between you and him? I mean, listen, the no stuff is out the window. Like, we already know. We're past that point. This is called damage control. Okay. We know that you were involved. You shot him with the 22. >> It didn't. >> Yes, you did. Right in the top of the head. >> I didn't. >> Okay. Is any of your DNA going to be on that duct tape that wrapped him up on the plastic bags? >> I've handled the duct tape, but I didn't wrap. >> No, I'm talking about the ones that wrapped him up. >> Listen. Listen, listen, listen, listen. We're We're beyond I don't know right now. Another detective uh is looking into some other stuff right now. So, what is a old boy going to say? What's Johnny Anderson going to say? Is his story going to match yours? >> It should >> because it should. That's not a very good answer. >> I didn't do it. >> Who did it then? >> I love Tom. >> You have knowledge of it. >> I love Tom. >> If you didn't shoot him, who did? Because you know >> I don't know. >> Why? Why are you searching? Why do is there GS? How do I get GSR off my hands? How long does it stay on my skin? Why did you search that? >> Why did you search it? Tell me. Give me a good explanation on why you searched 5 hours before this robbery ever happened. When you never shot a gun before, why are you searching? How long does GSR stay on my skin? You tell me that. And an I don't know answer is not good enough. Listen, >> you know, when you call 911, we record the calls. You're the only person in that apartment. The audio gets enhanced. We can tell if people are running out and struggling. We look at cameras in the neighborhood. There's nothing. Your story is so far bogus. If something happened in that apartment, you need to tell us now because listen, you already know what happened. If you're going to sit here and lie, how how do you think that makes you look? That doesn't make you look good at all, honey. Like you're like you're making it sound like you're a bad person. Like if something happened or if somebody else did something and you're trying to cover for him, then now would be the time to say it because the only thing you're doing is making yourself look like a monster by not telling the truth. >> I didn't do it. >> Who did it then? >> I don't know. >> Listen, I don't know. Isn't it Isn't going to fly. You know this. You know this. >> I don't. >> Yeah. Yeah, you do. So, you can kill the man you love or have knowledge of that and sit there and look at me dead in the eyes and say, "I don't know." That's pretty cool. That's cool. >> I didn't do it. >> Then who? Then tell us who did because you have knowledge of who did. >> I don't know. >> I don't know isn't going to fly. I'm telling you. You can't even explain why you have those search history in your phone. How do you think that makes what? Why do what what do you think that makes us think? Stand in my shoes here for a second. How's that look on you? >> Why does it look bad? >> Because you [music] think that I look stuff up so I could get away with something. >> Okay. And why does that look bad? >> Because you think I killed Tom. >> Okay. There would be there's no motivation for anyone to kill Tom. >> No, I >> other than you and all your Valentine's Day cards ripped up of you and him. Did he break up with you again? >> No. >> Was he going to go back with his wife? >> Not that I'm aware of. >> But when you're looking up, how do I get how long does GSR stay stay on my hands on my skin? And you have no explanation for that. That's not it. >> I didn't kill him. >> Okay. Who did that? >> I don't know. >> Did Johnny have anything to do with it? >> No, he didn't even know about Tom and I. Tom and I kept our relationship very private. >> Why is that? >> Because Tom requested it that way. >> Okay. Why is that? because Tom didn't want anyone else to know that he and I met while he was a manager and I was an associate. >> So when they also download your phone, it takes uh connection records. You know how you said that you was at Johnny's house? It's telling me that you were hitting off Greywolf's Wi-Fi. So did you get rid of his phone? >> Did you throw it in the gorge? >> No. >> Are you sure? >> I'm sure. innocent. If you and and Tom got into a fight or disagreement and something happened that caused you to react in a certain way, that would be now would be the time to tell us. There's nothing to be scared of. There's nothing to say, well, I did this or I did not do this. Like, you only get one shot at telling your story. And when it all gets laid out and then you get to see everything that was laid out, it's gonna be hard to believe any word that's ever came out of your mouth. You know what I mean? Like I'm not trying to give you a hard time. I'm not trying to to [ __ ] you. Uh I'm just telling you know from how I know how these things work, what we found out, what's what we're going to find out. We got multiple storage warrants out right now for different things. uh different type of stuff that's gonna just it's gonna the noose is gonna get tight. Okay. And you and the only thing that you can explain is I don't know. Okay. And that that doesn't look good. So here's your chance to say what happened and why it happened. Okay. Do you know what I mean? When I left Tom, I wanted to kill myself because I've been suicidal for quite some time. >> And it had nothing to do with him. It just had to do with the fact that I have been dealing with those issues for quite some time. >> Okay. >> In 2020, I tried to kill myself in Tennessee. >> Okay. But I wanted to die. >> It's tough. >> Things are tough. Yeah. [music] Especially when you're in that state of mind. >> And I'm constantly in that state of mind. But anything I looked up in regards to that was so I was setting up for my suicide. Do you really think that anybody would believe that? >> Honestly, that >> like you're trying to You're just digging your hole deeper, girl. You really are. You have a one chance to come clean and act like you're a little bit remorseful. >> I don't see any remorse. Do you? >> Why would you care if you your hands have GSR on them if you're dead? >> It was just a curious question. So, here's the fact of the matter. There's nobody that runs out of that apartment building. All right, we know that your DNA is on the gun. The gun that was used to kill him. Okay. And the gun that you shot yourself in the leg with to try to cover this up. You said that you grabbed it with both hands. How the [ __ ] you still holding your phone on the floor? >> No, you didn't. Come on. Listen. We've all heard the 911 tape. >> You You've been You've been thinking what what you're telling me now is how this came out. This must have been something you've been planning. >> No. >> This must have been something that you you did with a little bit of thinking to try to get out of this mess. You thought about it. What's he done to piss you off that so bad that you want to kill him? >> I did. I never thought about killing him. >> Okay. But the fact of the matter is the evidence will show that you did. Whether whether you ever want to be accountable for your actions, that's up to you. Like I'm trying to tell you that remorse goes a long way in trying to start the healing process for people's families, for people that might have cared about him, and also for you inside. I >> because ultimately there's one person that you're gonna have to answer to in the end and it ain't nobody here on earth. >> I care about him. >> No, you don't sit here and tell me you care about him. >> I do. >> You You don't care about him. If you can do what you did to him and then cover it up and then try to wrap him up and then sit here and not not be accountable for what you know about what happened. It's like that's like pretty pretty bad. Like I'm not going to sit here and lie to you. Like I've talked to killers before. I've talked to straight up people that's shot several people. They at least have the balls to own it. And you you don't you don't >> I didn't kill him. >> So if that's the case, then why'd you try to clean it up? >> I didn't try to clean anything up. >> There's hair in the trash bag that you covered his feet up that you put his feet in. >> Hair. >> Okay. Your hair is inside of this. They went to the autopsy today. It's your It's going to come back your hair. >> I mean, we can wait. We can wait until the DNA comes out and or you can just try to clear it up right now. It is what it is. >> You're putting yourself so far behind the eightball as far as why this happened. Like, you're deny denying lying and you wouldn't do anything. So, when it comes to the time you're going to be like, "Fuck, I need a better story because I am really screwed because they do have the evidence. They weren't [ __ ] with me. And you're you've painted yourself into this corner right now. That's why I'm telling you, you only have one chance to be 100% honest with us. And I can tell you, you ain't been honest. Not even the closest. So, if you want to be honest, we want to get this cleared up. Okay? So, you need to start being honest. The game's up. Like, I'm telling you, it's over. There's a guy down in municipal court right now. They're filing charges on you. Okay. >> I didn't do it. >> Okay. >> And I want to talk. >> The black t duct tape's underneath the the countertop. The trash bags are back underneath the sink. >> Your hair is stuck in his sweatpants around a trash bag or on the bed. >> I just >> you All right. So, your hair is in the duct tape. Okay. From where he was wrapped up. I mean, it doesn't. And then and then uh >> I mean, did you put the bag over his face because you couldn't look at him anymore and see what you done? >> I didn't cover him up. >> Okay. So, >> you're going to say that you you don't think that hair is going to come back to you? >> I don't know. I've been around those trash bags that duct tape. >> Listen, >> not out of a roll. >> Yeah. We don't When >> Not inside the bag. You got to open the bag. >> Yeah. You don't get hair on duct tape at Walmart. I mean, I I bought a lot of duct tape in my life, but I've never bought any. What comes preacked with hair, especially your hair. So, >> I didn't do it. >> Well, the I didn't do it story. That ain't going to work. I'm telling you. Like, this is this is the only chance you're going to get. This is it. Like I that's what we're saying. You only get one chance. You get one chance to tell the truth. And like I said, we didn't come up here for no reason to [ __ ] you. We're not here to make it anything worse than it is. But if you can't tell the truth, then that that ultimately makes you look like you have no compassion, no remorse, and that makes you like at the tip of the food scale on scumbags. To be honest with you, I'm I'm telling you, that's just just the way it is. And with all the evidence that we see, like that's that's what's there. Like I'm not trying to to be mean to you, but he's been doing it a long time. So like why like we're trying to give you almost an opportunity to explain it. So you know if he did something to you that caused you to do something or if somebody else did something that you're trying to cover for him, here's where you got to say it. Because when it comes down the road and you want to say, "Well, so and so did this or I knew this." like to like you already made yourself look bad because you didn't say what really happened at the time. You know what I mean? Does that make sense to you? >> Why would I go all the way back from Florida up here just to do something horrible? >> Why would anybody else do anything horrible to you? There's absolutely no reason. He >> is He's a great guy. [clears throat] You said I could talk to my attorney. >> Yeah. You want to? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Deborah Frasier was originally charged with murder, including firearm specifications, felonious assault, tampering with evidence, and domestic violence in connection with the 2023 Zanesville, Ohio case. On March 18th, 2024, she pleaded guilty in Muskingum County Common P to murder with a firearm specification, tampering with evidence, and gross abuse of a corpse. She was sentenced to life in prison with parole eligibility after 23 years, first possible eligibility in August 2046. As of the most recent verified reports in 2026, Frasier remains incarcerated at the Ohio Reform Women.