And >> I don't even know if it was a boy or a girl. It >> was a boy or some boy. So, I'm sorry I got to show you this, but I do because it is important. Okay, >> I'm going to throw up. Like, that's gross. >> This is 50-year-old Carrie Mazuka, and at this very moment, she has just been shown the pictures of the son she murdered over 27 years ago. >> This is 27 years ago. Let's clean this up. >> Sorry, I've got two spots. Over the course of those two decades, Carrie has left behind lie after lie in an attempt to cover her trail. >> I have more questions than I have answers. >> As she remains unaware that these officers have found everything. >> What's it feel like to kill somebody? >> Terrible. >> If you could say anything to that right now, what would it be? >> I love you and I'm sorry. On September 7th, 1997, police officers in Albany, New York, received a 911 call and rushed to Washington Park, where they discovered a haunting scene that would follow them for nearly decades to come. Nestled in a flower bed beneath a statue of Moses, where the burnt remains of a young victim. For weeks, [music] police tried to find out who his mother was, but slowly the weeks turned to months and then to years. The nameless victim was dubbed Moses for the statue he was laid under. But for 27 years, his real identity remained a mystery until advances in DNA technology led police to 52-year-old Carrie Mazuka, a woman who built an entire life after horribly murdering her son and who thought she had gotten away with it. Police brought her in for questioning under what she first believed was a traffic related issue. But she's about to find out she has much, much bigger problems than a speeding ticket. Okay, let me ask you this. Back 9697 1997, right? Anyone um any of them end up being pregnant? >> My sister? No. >> Jessica? No, she's sorry. She's lesbian. >> Okay. She's definitely not going to have baby. >> They're not going to have a baby. Um, >> but any at that time did any was anybody pregnant and then like no one never saw the kid or anything? >> No. >> No, >> not not that I'm aware of. No, >> not that you're aware of. >> Again, I mean, I'm not close close to my cousins, but I >> to the best of your knowledge, do you know if any of your cousins were ever down in the Albany area back in the 90s? >> Possibly to go to like Crossgates and shopping and stuff like that. Not living? No, not that I'm aware of. No. >> And when you lived on Maine, did you How'd that go? Cuz I remember my first Was that your first apartment? >> It was. >> Okay. How many Did you have a roommate or how? >> No, but it was a um I didn't have roommates, but it was like a a building and there were one like five apartments in there. >> Okay. Okay. >> You know, so there were people all, you know, upstairs. >> That's an adjustment though coming because how old were you? when they say came in 95ish. >> Yeah, somewhere around there. >> 72 182 92 23 >> 23 That's a big move. I mean an hour away all on your own apartment and a job. >> I had a bunch of friends here. >> That had moved from Roxberry and you know we're >> Okay. So you >> So and then work and you know I was very big into like we joined the volleyball team at work and you know just very kept active you know stuff to do. Carrie, whose maiden name is Spielman, lived the all-American dream. Growing up in Roxberry, New York, she was on the cheerleading team, ran track, played instruments, and excelled in athletics. Her parents, who worked as a correctional officer and an ER nurse, gave her and her sister an upper middle class upbringing. They were all close. She was someone with a family that loved, supported, and understood her. Parents who would have helped her with anything. And yet, instead of turning to them, she did the unthinkable. And if you enjoy killers like this, realize they're not winning an Oscar. Subscribe and check out our Spotify where we upload podcasts every week. >> So, you said you have two kids, right? >> Yes. >> Okay. Um, any other kids? >> No. >> No. >> Um, I know it's kind of a personal question, but I have it's one of the things I got to ask. Um, how many times you've been pregnant? >> Two. >> Two. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Very easy. very >> easy pregnancies, >> no issues. >> What about after? Because like my wife when she got the postpartum, did you ever get that? >> No. >> Really? Good for you, right? >> No, >> it was a tough time in the lawyer household. >> It was really >> Oh my god. >> No, I um I support system. >> Okay. >> You know, and it was they were good. >> Okay. Very cool. >> And I've you know, I think I babysat for so many people in Roxberry. like I was the town babysitter. >> Okay. >> That I think, you know, when I had my kids, it was easy for me because I'm used to crying, screaming children. >> Kind of prepared you. You know, >> that's a hard thing to get used to. Trust me. >> You're uh the father of your two children, Josh and Hannah? >> Yes. >> Uh you guys still together or? >> No, we're divorced. >> Divorced. Um did you meet him in Roxberry or down here? >> No, here. Here. >> We work together. Yeah. >> At Tri. >> Nope. at Cameron. >> The the living resources knew. Yeah. Gotcha. >> Uh so when did you meet him? How long after you came here? >> Well, I met him immediately cuz we worked together. But then we started dating probably two years later. >> He was actually engaged. >> Oh, he was engaged and then they broke up and then >> Yeah. >> Okay. And when did you guys separate? I'm curious. >> 2016. >> 2016. >> Yes. So you >> don't get me started on that one. >> No. >> Prior to him, any boyfriends, anything like that >> in college? >> Yeah. >> And then Yeah, >> I did. Excuse me. Um, can I get a water at some point? >> Yeah, I'll go. >> No, that's fine. Um, I did have Do you want me to wait from my house? Go ahead. >> Um, I did have two boyfriends in college. >> Okay. And then when I came up here, I was, you know, not really dating, you know, like we joined our company had a volleyball team and we would hang out and stuff, but I never really dated anyone up here until I, excuse me, I met Jason. >> Okay. Um, so part of this is we're going around, we're trying to collect DNA samples from people. All right. To try and match to um the remains and that that we're doing. Is that something be able to help us out? Give us a sample of DNA. Okay. Um, yeah, we can do that here in a moment. >> So, the remains were found there. Can you show me that? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, are you familiar with this area at all >> within Washington Park? I've seen it during Tulip Festival. >> Okay. Have you ever been here? >> Just look. Uh, the only time I ever gone to Washington Park was Tulip Festival. >> Tulip Fest. Okay. Yeah. [snorts] Yeah. So, yeah. So, where these flower beds are over here, right by this road, this is where the remains are. >> Okay. Um, but I mean these >> I'm sorry, I've got spots. >> Oh, it's horrible. I mean it is it's you know every every I'm sure whoever you know whatever happened there's an explanation because generally there's an explanation everything that happens cuz happened right >> um you know it's just a matter of figuring it out you know and I think eventually we'll do that you know but part of that is talking to people and figuring out you know we can do so much investigatively like following DNA trails and stuff and it is super cool like the way this stuff works Like I swear to you, soon we're not there yet. >> So how does like how does that work with DNI? Can you like pinpoint? >> Yeah. >> I don't watch any of those stupid my career. >> No, they they freak me out. >> Yeah. >> So DNA is pretty cool because in a sense it's everyone's fingerprint is >> different, right? It's distinct. DNA is like your your genetic fingerprint. Okay. Yeah. >> And whenever people are created, you get some DNA from mom and some DNA from dad. So as the years progress and the trees branch out, there's parts of those pieces of DNA that go with every person. Just gets a little mixed up and you know that's where all your traits come from. >> I think the the thing about this and it's law enforcement is not a special thing. It's like someone figures out a cool thing to do to solve crimes, right? or you know figure stuff out because not everything is a crime but to figure stuff out and then everyone gets on it like um Golden State Killer he was a serial killer >> around California for years >> like numerous victims and then they employed this technology that we're kind of using now >> and they were able to link him to all these crimes from like 30 years ago. >> Oh wow. >> It's a game changer. It's actually a huge help, you know, like it it generally does help us do what we got to do. So, the way it works is, you know, we we go around, we obtain DNA samples from a bunch of different people, and then we end up zeroing in and figure out who mom and dad are. >> Mhm. >> That's [laughter] amazing. >> It's pretty It's pretty cool. >> It's cool, you know. >> Cool is an understatement. Police were able to link Moses to Carrie first through genetic genealogy. A relative who created a profile on a genealogy website and willingly submitted a DNA sample was found to be a close match for Moses. From there, forensic genealogologists trace the family tree to identify the most likely culprits. In this case, either Carrie or her sister. In 2022, 2 years before this interrogation, police pulled trash from Car's curbside trash can and ran it against the DNA of the young victim. When it came out as a match, they knew they had the mother. The question was, how and why had she abandoned him? >> This is if you couldn't tell. Um, >> I throw up. Like, that's gross. >> I know. I mean, here's the thing, though, is, you know, we're just trying to figure out what happened to it. Um, you know, the remains, they are what they are. It's We're honestly trying to just fill in the blanks here. This is a historic event that happened. It is what it is. Um, no one's changing that now. We're just trying to get some answers and figure out exactly what occurred, you know. Um, whoever, you know, the mother and father are have their reasons for whatever they did. I'm not saying it's right. >> Right. You know, you never know what kind of headsp space someone's in. Like you could look at me and I could appear put together, but I'm a mess in my personal life, you know. Um, >> and who knows what's going on in their lives at the time, like you know, >> right? No, >> as far as turmoil, you know, what what's happening? >> And you know, the other interesting part about this is it's so long ago. It's 27 years ago. Like, no one's the same person they were 27 years ago. No one's the same person they were 27 days ago. >> Right. So that's what we're trying to sort out. But at no point you don't remember your sister being pregnant in 1997 and you were never pregnant in 1997. Never never had a pregnancy before. Who's the older or >> Okay. Never had a child or were pregnant before him? >> No. >> Okay. and to no one that you know of as far as cousin wise that was pregnant or that was involved or nothing that you can think of because like I know you said that you weren't really close with them. >> No, I mean no my two were in Vermont just not having a child. >> No. >> Okay. All right. Fair enough. Um and I appreciate you helping us out with the DNA. That's actually a big help. Um, the other part of it is this, I'm not saying I don't believe you by any means, right? But one of the other things we kind of, so the best way to describe it is we're mixing old school and new school, right? We're doing this new school DNA stuff, but we're also doing the old school in the sense of uh, if people are willing to do it, uh, we're trying to bring it back. Would you be willing to take a polygraph examination for us? >> Sure. >> Okay. Awesome. Um, we're trying to mix those in, too. So, yeah, let's go get the DNA guy to do the DNA. It's just a swab. So, it's much like a Q-tip. And all you're going to do, he's going to have you go over a consent form, just saying, "Yeah, I consent to get my DNA to the only place for it." And then you'll take it and just rub it on the inside your cheek. >> Okay? >> It's super easy. It's just like the ones that they send home, like when people do DNA stuff that they send [clears throat] it into all these different websites. It's like the same exact thing. >> Perfect. So, we'll be right back. >> Give you one moment here. Um, >> you sure you don't need coffee here or water? >> No, I'm fine. What time is it? >> It is 8:12. >> Okay. >> So, you're good. >> Can I have my phone back just so I can text him? Tell them I'm not going to be in time. 8:30. >> Yeah. Let me grab it and uh we'll get it in here with the DNA. Uh, >> yeah. And then I'll um I'll give it back to you or whatever. >> Perfect. Appreciate it. Hang tight one sec. Despite knowing that they're talking about her own son, Carrie still seems to think she's making it to work on time. But she's never making it to work ever again. And as police swab her cheek, it seems that she's slowly coming to terms with that because in just seconds, 27 years of deceit crumble like a trailer in a twister. >> So part of the thing is, you know, we're asking people as we're going through. Um, so this is a a very newborn baby that gets found. >> Mhm. >> Um, and we're trying to hash that out as to exactly what happened to it. Um, and we're just getting people's perspective, >> right? >> Like I mean this these remains, they they get found in Washington Park. I mean, in your mind, what would cause someone to leave a place? Anything you could think of? >> No. No. Because they have all those like hospitals, safe places. >> Yeah. Say hi. >> I Sorry. >> I mean, that that's what we're trying to wrap our head around. >> I [snorts] no idea. No idea. That's >> I mean so there are some aggravating factors with this as well. >> I think especially like [clears throat and cough] how how >> right I mean that's that's what we're trying to wrap our heads around and get from people. I mean, this happens and I think within short order we're going to be able to figure out um definitely who mom is, >> you know, and then we'll work through who dad is and you know, we got to collect all these DNA sessions and go from there. I >> But you know the the thing about this is so I'm sorry I got to show you this but I do because it is important. Okay set on fire. >> Oh my god. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So not only was it abandoned but >> Oh my god. >> Yeah. So, we're trying to figure out >> exactly what happened to So, we're trying to figure out, you know, who did it obviously, right? >> Cuz in your mind, I mean, you see that what's that scream to you? >> But it's crazy. >> But I mean, as I said, everything's explainable, >> right? >> You know, um, but the it's not me. I don't know. Especially when you know we can prove it. >> That's not a spot you want to be or someone wants to be in, I should say. >> Right. >> Right. Like if someone is truly related or the mother or father of this child, the best thing they could do when we talk to them, and this is just me thinking out loud, is the best thing they can do when we talk to them is be truthful, right? like, h yeah, all right. Yeah, I this is what happened, but I didn't do that or so and so did that. You know, but people that lie, that ain't going to go their way, right? Because everything gets figured out. >> As I was telling you, like that Golden State guy where all this stuff, look at that the Giblio Beach guy that killed all those girls, >> right? They figure it out, you know, because what they do is we end up, you know, we go, we get DNA, we make comparisons, and God helps someone if they lie because all you have is your credibility, right? Cuz 27 years ago, baby Moses gets found here, right? And say we say you are mom, right? I'm not saying you are, but say you are, right? and we bring that you down here and you say, "No, I'm not the mother. I was never pregnant." Then what if that's not true? Like we can figure all that stuff out, right? And then what happens is we go, "Hey, guess what? We found dead and and the mother said she's not the mother." What's that scream to you? If you're >> I did it. >> I did it. two cops in the room and neither of them had to even play bad cop to get Carrie to tell the truth. As you'll see, Carrie is the queen when it comes to halftruths and then caving when police so much as raise an eyebrow at her. Because time and time again, she'll try to lie to make the cold-blooded murder at her hands look like anything but. >> What happened? >> I got pregnant. >> Yes. inside that apartment right there. >> Yes. >> I >> Who did? >> I don't know who did. >> Who'd you give the baby to? >> I had the baby by myself. I went down to the park. I handed it to somebody. >> Who'd you hand it to? >> I don't know. Some some random person. >> Car that. >> I swear to God. You did not hand this baby to a random person. That didn't happen. >> I didn't know what to do. [snorts] >> Was it screaming? >> No, it was dead. It was dead. >> So, what'd you put the baby in? >> A towel. >> A towel. Cuz the doctor who did the autopsy says your version's [ __ ] >> Is that what I did? >> No. What I'm saying is breathing for minutes alive. >> I had it in the I did >> this. That doesn't lie. Let's all This is 27 years ago. Let's clean this up. Let's be done with this here and now. that died. Not a natural causes. >> I didn't kill that I'm aware of. >> Here's the thing. I get it. You're all alone. 1997. You probably moved here cuz you're pregnant or trying to hide it. >> I did not. I moved here for a job. >> Moved here for a job. >> I didn't know I was pregnant until after I moved here. >> Fair enough. That Listen, I'm not disagreeing with that. If you freaked out and did this, that's fine. We need to know. Look. >> Yes. >> Guess what? with what to put in a bag. Put it in a bag. We put him in a bag and we know he's alive. We like we definitely know the doctor, >> you know, >> because autopsy was completed >> and that's how we did. >> So that's what we need to figure out and we honestly want to know because there's, you know, the one thing I've consistently said about this whole thing is there I have more questions than I have answers. I hate being in that spot, you know. >> So, we're trying to figure that out and we need to flush that out so we can all move forward. This is a long, long time ago. You know what I mean? So, you have a tunnel. It doesn't And then how'd you get down to Washington Park? >> You drove. You're by yourself. >> Yeah. How Carrie can so callously describe the murder of her own son is shocking, especially when you consider the fact that she has two living children, both of whom she had not long after she murdered her first son. And though you'll continue to hear her excuse her behavior as young and stupid. She was 25 years old, 25. By the time Isaac Newton was 25, he had discovered gravity. By the time Saka Jia was 25, she had gotten married, had a kid, and carried that newborn on her back across the United States, showing Lewis and Clark the way to the Pacific. By the time I was 25, I was Well, let's not get into that. But by then, I knew better than to take the life of my own son. Yet, Carrie uses that age as an excuse. >> Did you ever go see a doctor about being pregnant? >> No. >> So, nobody knew? No. >> It was just you found out and kind of kept it to yourself. Like you said, >> how did you figure out to set it on fire? [clears throat] >> I don't know. >> I I don't >> Do you remember if you use matches or layer? >> I think >> I think >> I mean here's the thing. You you're four five7 97. >> Yeah. >> I I don't remember the crime. I I don't remember it. Do you remember the baby looking at you? >> No. No. I think I was just so like I said, gave birth in the bathtub, was dealing with myself. I don't think I really like I blocked it. >> Let's do this. I want you to take a deep breath and we're going to go on a time war. 1997. September 1997. Was it night or early morning? Let me have baby. >> Was it evening? >> Evening. So 27 years ago today, actually, September 6th of 1997, that means that baby was born. That's what I mean. It's been a long time. Let's sort this out, the three of us, and get past it together, and then we're done with it. But people need answers. Yourself included, too. >> This is solid self-reflection on what occurred. And you're not that person anymore. I can tell. >> No, not no. >> I can tell you're not that person anymore. You grew up. You had two kids. You live the American dream. You got a nice old piece of land on Ora Road. It's a little yellow house. You got a nice car. You have a good thing. Okay. So, let's be this the last time we go through this. Let's be honest. We'll do it together. and then we'll all move on together. >> So, 27 years ago on today's date in the evening hours, >> I believe it was evening. >> Yeah, you believe it was evening. How long were you in labor? >> I I don't I mean I don't know because it was my first child. I I was young. I don't know. >> Yeah. I I just know that I was having pains and I got in the bathtub to kind of like because I read online, you know, whatever. >> Yeah. But you you knew you were pregnant, correct? >> Yes. >> Okay. Were you showing? >> I don't believe really. No. Nobody ever questioned me. >> Really? Some people carry it. Some people. >> Even with my other two, though, I wasn't. >> Yeah. >> The only reason I knew I was pregnant is because I didn't get my period. >> Right. >> When did you notice you didn't get period? I think when I moved up here, like you know, I was living with my parents, like I didn't I was young. I was stupid. I didn't really pay attention. >> Yeah. >> But I've always been off and had issues and stuff. So, it was not anything out of the ordinary. >> No, that happens. That's sometimes it goes a little. It's not a science, you know. >> Um Okay. So, then you start getting cramps and you've done some research on your own online. um told you get in the bathtub. >> So you get in the bathtub >> and then what happens? >> I just kind of sat there and then I just felt like pressure >> and then I just felt the baby coming out. >> Yeah. Cuz here's the thing of this is do [snorts] you remember cleaning the baby off at all? >> I don't remember cleaning the baby off. >> Cuz babies that just come out and you've seen >> Yeah. >> they don't look like that. So, this baby was cared for somewhat. >> I I don't I mean, I think I blocked it out. I don't I don't remember cleaning the baby off. I don't >> Well, we need to unblock it so we can figure this out. >> I mean, I gave birth in the bathtub. I mean, I may have like with towels because I was in the water anyway. Yeah. >> But then I remember putting the baby outside the tub because I was cutting my trying to figure out the available. >> I don't even know if it was a boy or a girl. >> Boy, boy. >> There is absolutely no way Carrie didn't hear about Moses at the time of his murder and discovery. Articles about him were everywhere, and his funeral was attended by 80 complete strangers. His flowers, coffin, and headstone were paid for by thousands of dollars in donations that flooded in. And yet, Carrie claims she didn't hear a word about it, despite living just down the road, and despite being directly involved. >> Well, now we got to talk about the part where he stops screaming and we got to do an honest account of that with each other. Nada. I think is this is something you don't forget. >> You probably haven't thought about it in a long time, but it's definitely something you don't forget. >> I put my hands over his mouth and nose. >> Why? >> Why did I do it? >> Yeah. >> I think I just had no clue what I I think I was just in shock. >> You're in shock. Had you met Jason yet at that point? >> We were working together. Did you like him at that point? >> No, he was engaged. You know, we weren't We were just wor co-workers. >> So, this is some We were young. We were scared. >> Yeah. He doesn't even know about this. >> Have you ever told anyone? >> No. >> Nobody. >> Well, never told anybody. >> Not mom, dad, sister, nobody. >> Just kept it inside the whole time. Now, I got to ask you this because it's been a long time. After 27 years, how have you never told to anyone? I'm ashamed. I'm embarrassed. I walked it out of my memory. >> I didn't even know she was a date. Like, I just like wiped it. >> What's it feel like to kill someone? >> Terrible. Terrible. [snorts] >> Like, walk me through your emotions. I always ask everyone that's killed someone and you're not the first person. >> Shame, embarrassment, hater than myself. >> How long after that did you take this baby down to Washington Park? >> An hour or two? >> Hour two. And that's a towel. You said >> it was a towel. A blanket [snorts] and towel. >> And you put >> Is it a towel? >> It's like a pillow case. It does not look >> could be a towel. I don't know. Pillowcase. Tell some sort of claw. >> Did you wrap it in that? >> Yes. >> Before you set up a thousand% it was dead before I left the apartment. >> You killed I I believe it was dead before I left the apartment. I can't say 100% sure because I didn't, you know, feel pulse or anything. I didn't. >> If you had Let me ask you this. If you had not done what you did, would that still be alive today? >> Yes. If you could say anything to that right now, what would it be? >> I love you and I'm sorry. >> If he asked you, why'd you do this to me? >> I was young, stupid, and >> that's And it's If I could show you the panorama one all the way around. >> Did you ever go back to the park? >> No, never. You know, I mean, I've gone for like the tool fest or something like that >> events, but not >> Did you ever go when you went for tool fest, did you ever go to this area? >> No. I mean, just walking around with friends or whatever, but I just like I said, I've blocked it out. I mean, am I in trouble? Am I going to be arrested? Am I >> I mean, I I can't definitively say that. I I honestly don't know. Like, you know, it's so long ago and there's so many variables. I'm more mainly concerned with like I don't care if people get arrested or not as like just me as a cop. I I I never care about that. Um that's why I love investigations because I just all I want to do is just figure out what happened. You know, what do you think should happen out of this? >> Personally, if it was years ago, I think I should be in trouble. It's 27 years later. I've got my life back in order. I I I don't know, right? I mean, I did I I did it. >> Did what? >> I killed a I killed I killed >> I mean >> I mean I >> would you say you >> I Yeah, I would have to say that's what I did. >> Carrie was ultimately arrested and plead guilty to manslaughter. At her sentencing hearing, she begged the judge for leniency because in her eyes, she'd not done much wrong her whole life. >> You're not the first person to say I'm sorry. I did a horrible unimaginable thing and I live with remorse and regret. I am a great mom. I've lived a law abiding life and I do deserve a lengthy sentence. I just hope to use some discretion and go to the lower end. Thank you. >> The judge used her discretion, just not in the way that Carrie hoped. She was sentenced to the maximum time allowed by New York law for manslaughter, 25 years behind bars. She will ultimately serve less time than her young son spent in a grave as a John Doe. Thank you for tuning in. Besides subscribing to help us make more videos exactly like this one, you can also listen to all of our crime podcasts over on [music] Spotify. And before you go, check out one of the craziest cases I've ever covered right here, or one of my newest uploads right here.