What do you know personally about the murders? We've asked you this before. Do you know who killed Dan Okonnell and James Ellison? >> I have no idea. >> This is Father Ryan Ericson pretending to be a man of God while hiding a double homicide. That is the first this small Wisconsin town has seen in 24 years as detectives realize they have a killer priest on their hands. >> James, I heard was shot in a doorway. Why [music] do you know that? Never once has anybody from the Hudson Police Department ever mentioned where the bodies were, positions, etc. >> And he has spent years constructing a network of perversion inside his church driven by violence, [music] power, and his own twisted desires. >> I'm not the most religious guy and obviously you're very religious. >> I feel like I'm in a movie and I don't like what I'm experiencing. I didn't kill him. On February 5th, 2002, the small community of Hudson, Wisconsin was rocked by its first homicide in 25 years. And it wasn't just one murder, it was two. Inside Okonnell Funeral Home, the funeral director, Daniel Okonnell, and his intern James Ellison were discovered shot to death in the mid-after afternoon. Daniel, a loving father and husband, had been shot while rising up from his desk. James, who was just 22, had apparently tried to make a break for the door when he was shot in the back. For 2 years, the police department chipped away at leads, cycling through nearly 2,000 different suspects. Until, after hundreds of hours of manpower, the case went cold. That is, until police began to look into an unlikely suspect. 31-year-old Ryan Ericson, a Catholic priest at St. Patrick's Parish. And what began as a simple interview unraveled into a tale of not just one crime, but dozens. In November of 2004, police sat down with Erikson and cut right to the chase. Do you remember Dan O'Donnell? >> I do remember Dan. >> You remember James Ellison? >> I met him one time maybe and it would have been very briefly. So I don't I mean [snorts] I saw pictures of him and stuff but that was that's all. >> Okay. Did you met him one time? >> One time probably. I think it was when I went over to the we went to a funeral and he was there but it was brief because he was kind of a kind of out and in and out kind of guy. [snorts] >> And what kind of relationship did you have with Dan O'Connell? um simple um priest um parishioner kind of relationship. He had more of a relationship with Father Peter because Father Peter kind of dealt with a lot of different issues he was dealing with whereas with me it was more of I'd get in the car when somebody died and we'd go off and and and bury them. So that's the only relationship I had with her in that sense. >> Okay. Did you ever have any social relationship? There's only one time that I thought maybe we had a social relationship and that would have been when he if he was because I didn't know if he was or not. Uh at the um the parish festival at uh in the evening. A number of us stayed after but I had had enough beers at that time to tell you I don't know who might have been there kind of thing. >> Okay. Um do you recall prior to the homicides when was the last time that you saw Dan? It would have been a week, I believe it was a week prior in which I went to uh we went to bury someone. >> St. Patrick's Parish and Okonnell Funeral Home worked closely together. Ericson consoled grieving families for Daniel Okconor, the owner, and held Catholic funerals for those who had passed. The two saw each other often, several times a week, and though they weren't exactly friends, they knew each other well. In fact, Dan knew Ericson far better than he hoped. In the weeks leading up to his death, Dan saw Erikson for who he truly was, and he planned to confront him about it. And if you enjoy killers like this, realize they're not winning an Oscar. Subscribe and check out our Spotify where we upload podcasts every week. >> What did you know about the scene? >> All I knew is something had happened up at the up at the uh funeral parlor. Didn't know anything else besides that. So that's when I went back, asked Ellen. She said something had happened up at the and she she was the one who said I something about Dan or at least I could swear that she was the one who said I think it was Dan or something like that. >> Do you remember what context she said it in or what her >> No, I just remember her being distraught crying when I came up to the desk. I came into the the room uh was looking out that direction. She said something up there has happened. It could be Dan blah blah blah. And I sat there and I listened to that and and then or did she know at that point? Somebody asked me to go out to the Okonnell house. Now, where exactly that that time takes place, I'm not sure, but at some point, somebody says, "You need to go out to Jenny Okonnell's house." And I remember putting it off a little bit, not wanting to go out right away. And uh then going out and I I swear somebody took me. >> Why would you put it off for a while? >> Oh, I was a little scared. I didn't know what exactly to to what was going to see out there. you know, uh, I'm not real I'm not the best socially skilled guy and so I guess it's very easy and this kind of I didn't want to go into this situation being nervous and then trying to figure out what am I going to say to this poor woman who just lost her her husband and I think oh my gosh or or whatever was going on and I was I was nervous on that account but then eventually I I did go out it was either me or de Bruy and I didn't want him going out there so >> is he the one that went out with you do you think >> you know could he gone with you. >> I don't think it was him, but it might have been. I don't Again, I'm not sure if it was him or not who it was. I really don't. >> But you're sure it was somebody? >> I think there was somebody. I I'm I'm [clears throat] almost sure somebody was with me, but I don't know who it was. Everything took place so fast that day. And then with the funeral and everything that took place there, I just >> I don't know. >> When you got to Jenny's house, did that subject go in the house with you? And and >> well, >> and help console people, >> you know? I'm not sure. I'm sure if they were along, they came into the house with me. >> What do you know personally about uh the murders? >> I just know. >> I know we talked about it one other time, but >> I just know that James and Dan were shot. [clears throat] Uh, that's the only facts I know. I know I've heard rumors such as, you know, the mafia did it, but they were looking for Tom. Uh, I heard uh rumors that somebody was looking for some type of um stuffed. Uh, and that I heard that wasn't taken. Um, but that that's primarily what I've heard. I I heard that he was shot at his desk. Um, and James I heard was shot in a doorway. >> Ericson has just messed up in the worst way possible because he's described the scene exactly right. And no one on earth aside from the police officers who responded to the murder, which they called the most gruesome of their career knew what the inside of that room looked like. It was just them and the killer. And now with Ericson's slip up, they know for certain that the killer is sitting right across from them. Do you recall where you heard this this from? >> Um, you know, I'm not exactly positive. No. >> Who do you think would have >> Well, you know, at that time there was so much speculation going on the weeks following. There was so much stuff out there um just media u stuff uh also the the the office talk, you know, all constantly some new thing that they had heard from somebody somewhere. Um, so it could have been office talk. It could have been from the media. I'm not sure. >> We've asked you this before. Do you know who killed Dan McConnell and James Ellison? >> I have no idea. >> If you knew, would you tell us? >> If I knew and it was outside the sacrament of reconciliation, I would tell you. And nobody came to me saying they killed James Ellison or uh Dan O'. Okay. >> Um, [clears throat] getting back to some of the things that we talked about in in your recollection of that day. Um, there's some some discrepancies >> in what we've heard both times. when we were up to visit you in Hurley, you had mentioned uh you know and this is a pretty significant thing but you had mentioned um what you heard about number of shots, placement of shots. Do you remember saying that? >> I don't remember saying anything about placements of shots or anything. >> I mean as far as where on the bodies >> you had indicated to me. Well, I thought I had said that maybe one shot or something, but I wasn't sure of how many shots or even where the placement of the shots would be. >> You don't recall saying that or you didn't say it? >> Well, I don't think I said anything about it. Uh, I think I remember you asking the question uh and I said, "Well, I wasn't exactly sure, but yeah, I'm not sure how I answered." >> Do you know where they were shot? >> Where they were shot? No. on the body? >> No, I don't. >> You know what part of the funeral home they were shot in? >> I thought I had heard by his desk and in some doorway. >> Okay. In his desk, meaning Dan. >> Yeah, at his desk. >> Okay. >> And then James in a doorway. >> Do you know where you would have heard that from? >> No, I don't. >> Do you know what kind of caliber weapon it was? >> I know. >> What kind of caliber? I don't know that. I don't know. >> If we tell you that there's people that have come forward since our conversation, you know that we're going to go back and talk to people. >> Mhm. >> That they said that they saw you coming back to the church northbound on Wisconsin Street. Can you explain that to us? >> No, I can't. I I could have come back that direction. Like I told you guys, I wasn't sure as to what directions I was taking. And so when I was sitting there talking with you, I'm trying to come up with the best plan in my mind of where was I going and what was I doing. But maybe I came back on that that road. I I really don't know. >> But you would have went by the funeral home again. >> I you know I don't I really don't remember. I don't know if that's the way I came home. I >> Not a single news article released regarding the case spoke of where the bodies were found, where Dan and James were shot, or any other details regarding the scene. In fact, their own family didn't know what exactly happened inside the room. Yet, Ericson knows, and now he has to backpedal. In the course of this investigation, never once has anybody from the Hudson Police Department ever mentioned where the bodies were, positions, etc. Nor in the course of this investigation through 1900 and some people has anybody ever brought up a speculation, a probability, a possibility, or anything like that as far as where the bodies were. nor has anybody told us how many times they were shot or where they were shot. If that hasn't been brought up in 1900 some interviews and out of the course of five people in our department that knew exactly that and not even he knows where that was. Why do you know that? >> I don't know why I know that. >> Or why are you giving us information that this is what you heard? >> Well, this is what I had heard. You ask me a question, I tell you the answer. So if somebody's if they if I overheard that and I didn't tell you, then I'd be lying to you. So I tell you what I hear in the sense that if I heard these things, whether where it was, I'm not sure, or if it was just idle chitchat or what it was, >> I that's all I'm telling you. >> Is there anything that we've discussed in the today or the last time we talked to you that you want to change your story? The only thing I can tell you is I'm not sure about all the events that took place on that day. I'm trying my best to explain to you what I did or where I was. Um I know I didn't kill him. I know that. Um from that the the facts are are somewhat blurry to me where where I was, where I was going. Um that's as much as I can do. I I mean I >> and some of these things that's what we're having a problem with. We wouldn't be able to clear you. We can't. >> Sure. What do you mean you can't? Didn't you take my guns? >> We're going We're going over some things with you and to help go through all these events. Okay. Of what of what happened? Have you ever shown your weapons to anybody other than us? >> Oh, sure. Yeah. Have you ever owned any other weapons other than the ones that >> the only ones I own >> ever? >> Yep. >> You never owned any other firearms? Never traded any? Never bought any? >> Well, I had rifles and shotguns. Okay. >> And those, you know, I gave to, you know, I gave a a rifle to one kid when he turned 18. And um but other than that, >> do you recall who that was? >> Okay. But you never owned any other firearms? >> No. >> Have you ever registered any of your firearms? >> Uh, one or two of them are registered that I bought that were mine. The others are were gifts from other people. >> Okay. No. >> Of the weapons that you turned over to us, which ones had you purchased? >> The 44 Red Hawk Ruger. Believe I purchased it. I think they're in my name. And the 9 mm brownie. I think both of those should be in my name. >> Those are in your name. >> If I were to tell you that we showed those weapons to somebody and they said, "I've seen others, but I don't recognize these." What would your response be? Well, they're >> I would say they're crazy. >> They're crazy. >> Those are the ones that I own. They've the ones I've always owned and they've always been right in the rectory where everybody can see them. >> Even back in Hudson. >> Back in Hudson. >> Lady Smith. >> Yep. Hurling. >> And Hurling. [snorts] >> Those are the same guns that I have always had. >> In total, Erikson owned about 16 firearms in his home. And yeah, this is America. But 16 firearms seems a little much for a man wearing that robe. And it seems to detectives that it ain't the power of Christ compelling him to own that many. >> I'm not the most religious guy. I'll be the first to tell you that. Um, and obviously you're very religious. >> It seems odd for me for somebody in your capacity to be a gun guru or a gun connoisseur. I've never heard of it or seen it. And the type of activities that you have such as horror films, exorcists, Halloween, is that normal? >> I think it's it's normal from the from the standpoint that each priest has his own hobbies, his own things that he lets loose on. And uh um I like to hunt. I like to um I've always been one who enjoys a good horror flick. So those are things as growing up I liked and things that I collect now and that's actually not that uncommon. I mean father uh I mean there's a number of priests in our own dascese who have guns. So that's not a and a connoisseur of guns because they're up and they're hunters. So I don't think that that's out there. And as for movies, uh I mean I know a number of other priests who have lots of movies. Uh whether there some horror in there or not, I'm not sure, but I know that they have. >> Have you ever swapped guns or traded guns or borrowed guns with anybody? Ever loan yours out to anybody? >> I've loaned out like shotguns and rifles and that kind of thing, but I've never loaned out my my uh my handguns. No. >> Have you ever borrowed anybody's shotgun or handgun or rifle? >> Handgun and rifle I borrowed out. Sure, they'd go hunting with it, but not the handgun. >> Okay. Okay. But have you borrowed anybody else's either shotgun or handgun? >> No. No. I got >> for any reason. You have your own. >> Do priests commonly go to confession? >> Yep. >> How regularly? >> Depends on the priest. Some priests go only when they get together in a big um group or um some go every two weeks, some go once a month. Depends. How often do you go? >> I go once a month. No. >> And when you're in confession, >> does the other priest know who you are? >> Sometimes if if you have a regular confessor. >> Do you? >> I had one when I was down there. Uh it ranged from uh Father John Clackman to uh Father Brinkman to just a number of different ones. And confiding in a lot of times confession for priest is also spiritual direction for a priest. So you go and you get spiritual direction along with then the forgiveness of sins. >> You do it once a month now. >> Mhm. >> How often did you do it prior to this? Once a month. >> Oh, every two weeks. >> Why the change? >> I'm further away from the cities, further away from places. Uh don't have the time. I'm in charge of four parishes now versus not being in charge of anything before. Mr. Walter, what the I'm okay of that is I try and bring some issues. Uh, a couple things. Listening to the chat here. I feel like I'm in a movie and I and and I don't like what I'm what I'm experiencing. Okay. Um, I don't like it. Quite frankly, when asked for you to explain where you were or what you were doing or this kind of stuff, you would say, "I would be doing as though you are abstracting or as you are not actually saying I was here. I was here. I was here." Okay? And it sounds like wiggle room to the skeptics like me. Okay? And um it appears if I'm going to be unkind or honest, okay, you have selective memory. Okay. Um granted, I will agree that people several years have passed and whatever else, but I don't think the fellows were that long away from you from the last interviews. Okay? And so things have shifted and all this kind of stuff. I realize that it can be a tense time while you're here and I don't expect you to be relaxed. Okay. Um I'm going to tell you straight up. You sound like you're lying. Okay. >> I'll tell you straight up. I'm not straight up. I I I'm not. >> And I think that uh I'm just more direct than that. Maybe maybe they're not thinking the same thing I am, but I'm telling them at the same time, okay? If I were sitting in their chairs, okay, uh we would be having a different conversation, okay? But, uh this is their interview. Uh again, I'm an expert on murder and I don't give much order to people. Okay? Um, I'm a little concerned about something else. Okay. And I'm concerned that yes, you may have been working each day and all this kind of stuff. Okay. >> But being here um, is not the function of a Catholic priest. You're here as an individual, >> yet you're dressed as a Catholic priest. And I find that uh staging. >> Oh no. >> Okay. >> I'm a priest wherever I go and very seldom am I outside my clerics. And that you can ask people around. They'll tell you for the most part father is always in his clerics unless he's doing something that requires uh cleaning or something like that. So I I do wear my clerics all the time. I'm proud of being a priest. >> Historically. I will tell you this um that uh in the big cities or in the world outside they're very generous to you here. You would not be interviewed in your robes, okay? Or whatever your costume or whatever you call it. Okay? It would not happen. Okay? Um they have chosen to do that. Okay? If I were in charge of this investigation, okay, you wouldn't be there, okay? You'd be there as an individual and you may strip you off a little bit, okay? And that's not to humiliate you. That's to bring you that they're talking to a man. >> I'm very clear about that. >> Okay? As opposed to a figure. Okay? Because I think sometimes for you because people address you like that that you see yourself as a figure also. And so it adds to some rather abstract uh concepts which you tend to glide over things. Okay, you glide over significant issues. >> For Ericson, the robe is just a costume because his history within the church was built on crime, bigotry, and hatred. Everything he stands for at the pulpit and in the eyes of his parishioners is a lie. Because as you're about to find out, behind closed doors, he's anything but holy. >> How about a polygraph? >> How about polygraph? >> I'd take a polygraph. >> Would you? >> As long as you keep the right to those the specific uh questions, perfectly fine. specific questions mean? >> Well, I'm just saying did you kill Dan Oonnell? We're not speculating on all kinds of other stuff. If you make it point blank clear, you know, um I don't take apologit and think and try to get things together in my mind there. Do you have any regrets on anything you've done in your life? I mean, >> I'll be the first to tell you I've got a great cloud over my head. >> I know this guy. >> I don't know. I certainly there's regrets in my life. Okay. >> There's certain things that I did that when I was younger that I am not proud of. Uh but never uh never murder, never hurting somebody like that. No. >> What's the worst you've ever done to anybody? Oh, when I was in high school, I would be bullyish, you know, kind of push him around and let him know I was kind of in charge kind of thing. Um, that's that's >> Were you ever physically mentally? >> No. >> Have you ever done that to anybody? >> No. >> How old are you again? >> 38. >> 31. >> 31. >> That's a hard 31. and Erikson deserves every single wrinkle because for the past 12 years, as early as 1992, he's faced allegations of inappropriate behavior. Now, there's a rumor about priests, and in this case, it's spot-on. For over a decade, Ericson has been accused of sexual conduct with younger members of his church and his community. And one of those victims actually spoke with police about his experience. But he spoke to someone else about it, too. Daniel Okonnell, a man who stood for justice and wasn't going to let Ericson's behavior go on without a fight. >> Do you have any idea why he would come to the Hudson Police Department and discuss something about you? >> Now, this is the time you're in your you're in your car. >> Why would he come to the Hudson Police Department to file a complaint against you? Uh, >> I don't know. What was your relationship with him? >> Uh friends. Um I helped him out with um uh what do you call it? Um well, >> how close of friends were you with him? >> Just friends. >> Did you drink with him? >> Yeah. >> How old was he when you were giving him drinks? I think he was about 18 and I think his mother was aware of it. >> Was his mother with him when you gave him drinks? >> No. >> Where did you buy your your alcohol when you were in Hudson? >> Um either at uh the place down by County Market there. No, not >> Spirit Seller. >> Yeah, Spirit Seller. Do you recall the time you bought alcohol? >> Okay. I I could have bought some there. Yeah. >> How often did you have him drink with you? >> I think maybe three or four times. >> Did he ever become highly intoxicated and get sick? >> He did. >> Tell me about that. Well, he got sick and so I went and I put him into the shower, took his clothes and got his clothes washed uh uh and then brought him back then put him to bed. >> Where were the towels located? >> Uh right right on the side of the the by the tub. If he dried off part of himself and you helped him dry himself off after getting out of the shower, you were nice enough to give him the towel. You helped him dry off, correct? >> I would have given him the towel and maybe patted his his uh shoulders or given it to him, but I didn't dry him off. >> Okay. You assisted him though at least some way. Some >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I gave him the stuff. Yeah. I made sure that he wasn't going to fall over inside the in in the uh bathtub. >> Okay. [snorts] >> Did you watch movies with him? >> Sure. >> Okay. How often did he massage your back? >> I would have those guys walk on my back lots of times. Um or if I >> What was the special oil that you used? >> Special oil? >> Just some cream? probably if I had sunburn sometimes I would have them put on uh like a lotion, you know, Jurgens lotion or something. You'd have to remove your shirt. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. >> You knew that he would >> Mhm. [clears throat] >> Okay. Yet you still gave provided alcohol to him at your house. They gave him alcohol, wine. You know him then also correct? >> Yeah. >> Did you ever intervene say do not give him the alcohol? >> No, I did not. >> Why wouldn't you intervene as a priest to give an 18-year-old kid alcohol? People are looking up to you. People have to respect you. You told him it was okay to be when he was with you. I told him it was okay to because I wanted to get across to him that that's not sinful in itself. >> I'm not saying okay that you're gay. I'm not saying that >> because I wanted him to get past the shame, the idea that this is a bad thing that we have to hide these kind of things. For at least 12 years, but even back as far as his own teen years, Ericson was at the center of allegations. In many cases, over a period of 2 to three years, he allegedly ged members of his parish, providing them with alcohol and a place [music] to sleep, which contradicts everything Ericson stands for. Because at St. Patrick's, he was known for being against one thing very specifically, homosexuality. In fact, he was so vehemently opposed to homosexuality and preached the evils of it so much that even his superiors thought his beliefs were a little overboard. Do you know how conservative you have to be for the Catholic Church to think you're a prude? >> What do you think should happen to the person who killed Dan O'Connell and James Ellison? >> I think they should be put away for a long time for life. >> Okay. What do you mean put away? Lock up in the jail. >> You don't know who killed Daniel Con? >> No, I don't know who killed Daniel. >> Do you know why he was killed? >> No, I don't know why he was killed. Why was James Ellison killed? >> I don't know. >> Based on things that you've told us before, you're talking about the placement or where the bodies were and and that type of thing. Do you think somebody just got in the way when somebody else wanted to shoot somebody else? Is that why there's two persons dead instead of one? >> I don't know. Because if it's true or if it's not true for what you're telling us about the scene, not much of that information was given out to the media. None of that was broadcast. >> This is the very first heard of it. If you're given direct things, Ryan, >> I don't know. All I know is I may have overheard that somewhere in some kind of chitchat and that's why I brought it up when you asked me. You believe in obviously, you know, you believe in in in forgiveness and the confessions and and all that's, you know, and those types of things. >> Is a person whoever kills another person intentionally kill somebody non self-defense, are they ever going to be forgiven? >> They can be if they repent of their sin. if they're sorry for what they did, if they're really and truly sorry, they can be forgiven. >> How would you go about if you were the one who did it? Okay. How would you go about saying that you want to have your sins forgiven as as as a as a as a man and in your position? >> I would go to a priest and ask for forgiveness. >> Would you be forgiven if I was truly sorry? Yes. If I wasn't truly sorry. No. >> Do you think the person that killed these two men can really live with themselves? >> I don't believe so. >> Don't you think it just Don't you just think it just would eat them right up? >> I don't believe anybody who would kill somebody could live with it. >> You know, it's manto man here. >> Yep. >> Wouldn't that just eat away at their guts? >> I think about it every day. >> Oh, yeah. It wouldn't be a day or there isn't a day that goes by, is there? >> Not a day. I wouldn't think. >> Do you think about it? >> I didn't kill him. >> Are you going to Besides the two folks that are with you this evening? >> Are you going to tell anybody else that the law enforcement talk to you? >> Should tonight? >> Should I? >> December 7th. I'm asking you [clears throat] are you can tell >> I may tell my mother may uh I'll call the bishop. Um >> what are you going to tell the bishop? >> Well, just tell him that you question me on these different things. I'll immediately tell him that there was an accusation made against me because I got to do that. And uh >> an accusation made about what? Well, the way you made it sound, it sound like there's allegation made against me and there's made against me. I got to tell the bishop so that I could be removed from my position and go through all that crap which did anybody ever did we hear in this room? >> That's what I was surmising. >> Okay. Did you hear the alcohol thing? >> Oh, that's what I mean. that that alcohol thing the whole >> the whole yeah >> you'd have to contact the bishop over that >> if there was an accusation mean I have to I have to tell the bishop >> what will be the consequences of that >> immediate removal from the parish >> ever contact the police department >> as soon as he well he'd know that you knew so he would then contact the police department too or he would have somebody contact with you. But >> does drinking broers? >> Is that a really big issue? >> I think it's a big issue. I mean, you pointed out I know it was wrong. I knew it was wrong. I sat there and I look at it back now and I see it's wrong. I see that I see that it was really wrong. I do. I I just You want to fit in. You want to make them all >> you're having a hard time identify identifying with yourself and with them. >> Well, it's hard to get them to understand that you want to help them and and and to identify with them in such a way that they don't feel like, oh gosh, father, you know, he's scared of father or or u there's a balance between respect and fear. And I don't like it when they fear people. I never feared my pastors. Uh, and I never feared anybody. I mean, in that in that and so I don't want them to fear me. And yet I see more and more this greater and greater fear taking place. So you think, well, if I look like the kids or if I try to kind of be like the kids, if I kind of talk like even went out and bought stupid DVDs, Backstreet Boys and I forget who else, but anyway, to try to make them feel like father was somebody who cared about them and that father really wanted to help them. Uh because the older priests are just that they're older and they're so far away and and I don't want that to be the stereotype. And so you I do something thinking, "Oh, this is harmless." And then when you look at it, even two days later, you go, "Oh my god, what did I do? I shouldn't have done that. That wasn't right. Don't do that." >> But it continually happened. >> Well, because I didn't think about it until all of a sudden, you know, couple times after, oh boy, oh boy. Oh boy. In fact, that and he puked and all that. That was it. That was it. I quit doing it. You asked him, there was no more. that was done. Um because I realized this danger alert that went out. Oh, danger, danger. You're going to get in trouble for this. But also that it just it wasn't right. >> After 3 hours of interrogation, police asked Ericson for the truth one final time. >> I just know that I did not kill James. Did not happen. Did you kill him? >> I did not kill Dan. >> Did you want to kill him? >> No, I did not. I have no reason to want to kill Dan O. We never had any bad words towards one another. We never talked poorly to one another. There was never any confrontation between us. There was no reason for me to kill Dan. >> Let me ask you one question, an honest question, and you can even ask me. If you were pissed off enough to shoot and kill and I asked you, if you did it, would you tell would you tell me or Jeff? If I did it right now, what would you answer me? If I did it and I've been living with it for this long and I you guys had me cornered here, I'd break, >> I tell you. I know I would. Uh, and the reason is because I think the guilt would be so overwhelming. I really do. >> If you could get away with it, would you tell us? >> No. Yeah. I mean, >> if I could get away with it, >> probably won't. I mean, I try to get away. Human nature says I should try to get away with it. But I I personally myself, I would tell you I I really believe that. I believe that if I did something that heinous, I would tell you because I don't think I could live with myself. >> And ultimately, he couldn't. Not because he took a life, but because he was cornered like an animal. A member of his parish remarked that in the aftermath of the police interview, he heard Ericson in his office crying and making remarks that police were going to get him. Ultimately, he took his own life in his church and was never prosecuted for his crimes. Police determined that based on the evidence available to them, Ericson was the killer of Daniel Okonnell and James Ellison. In an effort to avoid confrontation about his crimes against vulnerable kids, Ericson shot Daniel and James happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Our thoughts are with the family of Daniel and James, who lost them far too [music] soon over one man's sick desires and inability to face the consequences of his actions. Thank you for tuning in. Besides subscribing to help us make more videos exactly like this one, you can also listen to all of our crime podcasts over on Spotify. And before you go, check out one of the craziest cases I've ever covered right here, or one of my newest uploads right here.