You know, when you walked in the door today, I knew right away what it was going to be about. I thought figured I got away with it. I got lucky. But, luck runs out. 50 years ago, Mary Kathleen Schlies went missing, only to be found buried, killed, [music] and left in a pile of snow. After half a century of relentless pursuit, detectives have made their way to Mary's murderer, 84-year-old John Miller. How did they find my DNA and who I was? A cold case dating back 50 years solved thanks to [music] genetic testing. For all of those decades, John had been hidden just 2 hours away from Mary, hoping no one would ever find out what he had done. But, for Mary's sake, can detectives make this grandpa confess in this never-before-seen interrogation? John, I don't believe you. >> I don't care if you believe me or not. Or is John about to slip away for one final time? That story doesn't work. I don't care. John, it [music] doesn't work. On February 15th, 1974, a cold day in rural Wisconsin, a driver making his way down a dirt road made a startling discovery. As he stopped his car at this intersection and climbed out into the snow, he was hoping what he had seen was just his eyes playing tricks on him. But, it wasn't. There, in the snowbank, was the body of 25-year-old Mary Schlies. Mary was an incredible artist who had been hitchhiking from Minneapolis, where she lived, to an art show in Chicago in hopes of networking and showing off her skills. But, along the way, the man who gave her a ride had other plans. Police launched an investigation immediately, and it seemed like they had solid leads. Witnesses had spotted a man and woman arguing on the side of the road shortly before Mary's body had been found. They had seen a car and were able to give descriptions of it. On top of that, a hat had been left behind at the scene by the killer. [music] There was not one, not two, but three things linking police to the killer. And yet, the case went cold. For 50 years, Mary's killer was on the loose, living his life, raising children, going to local school events, working at carnivals, surrounded [music] by potential victims. Until finally, in 2024, genetic genealogy led police to 84-year-old John Keith Miller, who, by November of 2024, [music] resided in an assisted living facility. How you doing, sir? All right. Looking for John. Me? >> John? I'm Dan. Good to meet you. Um this is my partner, Jason. We work with the Dunn County Sheriff's Office, and we're hoping uh maybe sit down with you in your home or wherever you're comfortable and have a conversation. Come on in. All right. Thank you. Nothing like getting bothered on a nice day, huh? Um yeah, I guess wherever. You want me to sit here? Yeah. Okay. You can have me sit here, sure. How's your day going so far? Good. Good? All right. So, like I said, my name is Dan. Just call me Dan. >> [clears throat] >> Um this is Jason. He's my partner in this case that we're working on. So, I think that you might be able to help me out. Um it's been a long road to get here. Um but, I kind of want to start off by talking about your family. Um probably family that you don't know a whole lot about, John, cuz it goes it goes pretty far back. Um I'm going to pull out a little sheet here. Do you know I know you were adopted. >> Yeah. Yeah. Who who were you Who were you adopted by? Uh Merle Miller and Grace Miller. And Grace Miller? Okay. Were you adopted as a an infant? Yeah. Do you know So, you don't know any of the Pearson family? No. Pearson is the last name. Not that I can recall. Do you know anything about your biological parents? No, I just know that my mother had an affair with a a guy from New Glarus, probably. And that's where I came from. Okay. So, And I was supposed to have a brother. You're supposed to have a brother? Do you know what their name is? No. Genetic genealogy is a challenging science, one that was made even more challenging in this case due to the fact that John was adopted at such a young age. Initially, geneticists based out of Ramapo College in Mahwah, New Jersey, traced DNA found on a hat at the scene of the crime in two of John's biological siblings. However, John wasn't raised with those siblings or in touch with them at all, which left investigators at a dead end. That is, until investigators dug further and were able to identify his DNA through a sample that his daughter submitted. Though detectives here aren't ready to talk about that DNA link just yet. First, they want to nail down John's timeline regarding where he was the day of Mary's murder. They know that in 1974, John was married to a woman named Ruth. Usually, he worked at a carnival, but given the fact that it was winter, he wasn't doing much of anything except, evidently, committing murder. Before we dive into his version of events, if you're interested in seeing more clowns like John face justice, be sure to like and subscribe. That's literally all we do here. So, what what states did you work in uh carnival? Uh mostly Iowa. Mostly Iowa? Yeah. Did you ever work like Minnesota, Wisconsin? Uh boy, I don't think I ever worked Minnesota. Mostly Iowa. Wisconsin, I don't know. I don't think I don't think we ever did anything Wisconsin. Um So, did you ever live with Ruth like in the cities? No, I was in the country. Did she work? Did you work at the carnival with her or what did she do? >> Ruth was a cook. Oh, she was? Yeah, and Copper Tree Restaurant. Copper Tree Restaurant? >> Yeah. Okay. Did she work during the day or nights or She worked all the time. So, I'll level with you a little bit, John, is I talked to Ruth. To work it on this this tree I want to show you cuz like I said, you might be able to help me out further. But, there was mention that um that my gun from her dad back when you guys were married and stuff. Obviously, nothing. You know, you're not in trouble for that particular thing, but um I was just wondering if that helped you remember anything. >> Yeah, I don't think so. That's where I got the gun from. So, it's from Tina's dad or I'm sorry, Ruth's dad. Yeah, Daddy. Okay. Daddy's gun. And that was the one you used for the robbery when you were a young man. Did Ruth ever talk to you about that or no? I don't think so. That's what I recall. >> Yeah. Yeah, she she also said that sometimes you would take her car and you would assume it now it must have been going fishing and that kind of thing. But, she she said that you guys were living near Minneapolis. Near Minneapolis? I know I was north of Minneapolis, how far I don't know. You think if you looked at a map of Minneapolis, you'd have a general idea of just so I understand where you're talking about. Possible. John was no stranger to law enforcement, though he had been off their radar for quite some time. Prior to Mary's murder, he had been imprisoned for a robbery in California, where he lived for a time. The fact that he traveled all over and worked an under-the-table job only adds to detectives' concerns. Because if he did this in Wisconsin, who's to say he didn't do it in any of the other states he lived in? Yeah, and I talked with uh Tina, too, a little bit. Um they were they were really helpful to us. Um all of you guys have been great. It's nice to be able to sit and have conversations with people. I have that. So, um I'm going to pull up this this sheet that I have here that we kind of made um for [clears throat] the case that we're looking at. Um you know, obviously, the we're in the age of the technology. So, um a lot of advancements have been made in with ancestry DNA and that kind of thing. Um We've been able to build out a lot of family charts, and that's why I was talking to Ruth and and Tina, and they were great, and that's how I know your your biological parents. Your dad was actually John Pearson was his name. I don't know if you remember ever hearing that or maybe you didn't have anything to do with with John Pearson, but um >> I remember the my given name that I remember was Donald Keith Johnson. Donald Keith Johnson? Yeah. Okay. And when I got adopted, when I was first adopted, they kept my middle name. Okay. Just renamed you to John, dropped the H. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, so these are some of the names that we've we've come up with with this DNA profile stuff that we have. Like, do you recognize the name Barr at all? Who? Barr, B A H R. Carolyn Barr, I think. No, that was Barr. Or Sutherland? No. No? I'm just curious. So, to get into the that point, John, the case that we're looking at, um there's DNA and obviously it's from many years ago. And when I started looking at at this case, I started working with the DNA cuz we got new technology and we do what's called ancestry. Um it's investigative genetic genealogy, which takes a DNA sample from whatever scene we might be working on and helps us build a family tree and the units of measurement eventually help us find who might have contributed DNA to a scene. Does that make sense? I guess. Okay. >> [clears throat] >> So, what led us here is um a homicide. Okay? Okay. It's it's been a long road to get here and I'm very glad that you're talking with me, but at the scene of this homicide, there was evidence that was collected and subsequently, when I picked up the case, because of the advancement of technology, we were able to start figuring out where that DNA came from. Okay? DNA is not escapable. You can't escape it. It is what it is. It is who ever it belongs to. So, your DNA was found at the scene of the crime. Mine? Correct. And obviously there's been an investigation going on since this happened and a lot of evidence, besides the DNA, was pointing to you and the DNA was kind of the last part of it. So, when I sit down and talk with somebody like this, I do it not to accuse somebody of anything. I know what I know, but I also want to hear the side of it from the person that owns that DNA because there's always two sides to a story. Always. Whether it's hardship, a mistake, an accident, I've seen all of them. Every single one of them. I don't know. You got me curious now. Okay. So, we responded to a scene, we being law enforcement. I wasn't even alive yet. In 1974, a woman was murdered. She and left on the side of the road. There was a vehicle description. There was a description of the male, among other things, and then now the DNA. And that's why we're here. That's weird. Mhm. >> [clears throat] >> Weird is not the word I would use in this situation. When police confronted his daughter, Tina, requesting a direct DNA sample to compare to her father, she didn't hesitate to provide it. Her DNA was an exact match for the daughter of Mary's killer, proving 100% that John Miller had killed Mary in 1974. So, there's still some things that we're going to be working on, but you have to tell me why your DNA was on the scene of this homicide. I really don't know what to say. John, I need you to think about what your answer is going to be here because I only have one opportunity that I can give you. But the girl went missing from Minneapolis and was found an hour and 45 minutes after she was last seen. And I'm not going to give you any more details about this, but the fact of the matter is is the family needs rest. Your DNA was on the scene and it's time for you to talk about what happened. I don't know what you're talking about. So, how do you think your DNA would have gotten on the scene of a crime like that? I can't answer that. Well, John, you got to help me understand I don't know. >> how it got I have no idea what you mean, what you're talking about. My DNA somewhere. Yeah, your DNA was on the scene of a murder. Next to the dead woman. Mhm. >> [clears throat] >> And that's what's led us here over the years and we're finally here because I want to hear your side of things. I have no idea what you mean. This must be one of them things that I watch on TV called a cold case. Mhm. No. It is. I can't help you out. I don't know what to say. All right, I did. I put her in a snow bank. Is that enough? It was an accident. Not sure if you were counting, but John managed to last approximately 3 minutes and 47 seconds from being confronted with the DNA evidence to admitting that he killed Mary. When the Grim Reaper is already tapping his scythe near your door, I guess you want to get things done as quickly as possible. So, I had a fishing knife. A skinning knife in my blazer. I asked the lady if she'd give me a a Mhm. [clears throat] She said no. When she bent over, I reached up and grabbed the knife and your hit was and I I can't believe what she did. So, I walked off the area. I went up and I put her in the snow bank. Okay. And then the car had come up behind me. And I didn't want to go out, so I left. And the paper the next day gave an entirely different color to the car and everything's white there. Okay. But that's what happened. Okay. And I don't think I'll be here for supper. Well, I'm glad that you're opening up to me because it it's helpful and I'm glad that you want to get it off your chest. Um you know, it's I want to talk to you more in detail about this. Is that something you're willing to continue talking to me about? I don't think I have much more to talk about. What vehicle were you driving when you picked this gal up? I think it was a Gremlin. A Gremlin? Yeah, a '72 Gremlin. Do you know her name? No. Where did you pick her up? She was hitchhiking. She was hitchhiking? Yeah. How do you know she was hitchhiking? Well, I saw her. Well, I mean, did what did she have anything in her hands? Was she carrying anything? >> No, she was just putting her thumb out? >> Yeah. Where was she hitchhiking? I don't know. I mean, like the general area. Where you picked her up, I mean. I don't remember that either. No, I don't remember. Where was that? A long time ago. So, did you just pull pull up alongside of her? Yeah. Then what was the conversation or the exchange? Well, I pulled up beside her. I opened the Oh, I reached over and opened the door. Do you need a ride? She got in. And we sat down driving. I asked her if she'd give me a And she said no. She bent over in the seat. I reached [clears throat] up and grabbed that fishing knife and boom, that was it. Do you know where whereabouts you were when you hit her? >> No. Are you you said she bent over. The fishing knife >> In the front seat, she leaned over like this. Okay, so did you did you What did you hit her with? What part of the knife? Oh, it was sharp when I was in the the visor on the passenger side. Okay. And when the knife but just went boom like that and it was instant. Where did you hit her? In the back. With the blade or with The blade. The blade? Yeah. So, did you see the blade first? Oh, yeah. It wasn't very far. That's why I couldn't figure out wow, she's dead. I I threw the knife away a long time ago. We just have to pause here because stabbing someone in the back with a knife and being surprised that they died is a new kind of stupidity on this channel. In reality, Mary was between 13 and 15 times before she was thrown into the snow bank. When she had been found by a driver, she had been missing for less than 2 hours, meaning that she likely didn't die in the car. So, what happened after you did that and you realized she was dead? I put her in the snow bank. So, what made you drive all the way to Dunn County? You know, I got off the highway and off the freeway and and found an off like an off road a dirt road over there. Okay. And that's why I decided to put her in the snow bank. And a car drove up behind me I figured I was caught. Then I when I read in the newspaper the next day, everything didn't jive. So, I figured I got away. I thought I figured I got away with it, but I always thought about it a lot. Now, weighed heavy on your mind? Yeah. Every once in a while it'd come back. Well, John, I know that it's probably hard sitting and talking with me, but I think it it's a good representation of how heavy it was on your mind because it is going to help the family heal, you know, at this point. What did you do in the days following? Just kept on going, I guess. I don't remember. Okay. Because we're having an effective conversation, you and I, John, she she had more things than one. And I I want you to really think hard so we can you can really show me a picture of what happened that day. It could have been panic, you know, after the initial Like you say, I don't know. That's why I'm here and I want to hear it from you. Well, like [clears throat] I said, but when I found out she was really I knew she was dead. >> [snorts] >> I found an off road, went up and found what put her in the snow bank. And did more than once while you were still in the car? >> one time. Just once. In the back. John, that's not true. It is true. That's what I I remember him one time in the back. And Oh, man. If I did, I don't know I remember. I remember one time in the back. Part of us following up with this means difficult questions, difficult situations. John, did you have with her? No. So, there would be no reason why your would be on the crime scene. Correct. Okay. >> [clears throat] >> Did any blood get in the car? Huh? Did any blood get in the car? I I don't know. I Oh, yeah. I got some on my pants. You got some blood on your pants? Yeah, I know. >> [gasps] >> I remember. I ripped the side of my pants, I told them. How was that? I said I told the people that that I had went skiing and I hit the the fence that separated the two slides and I ripped my pants, so I went and got a You carried it to the grocery store or at the store. I And I just drove home, threw the knife out the window in the in the snow. And that was it. John, I've investigated a lot of cases and I know that back you react to that. Yeah, but she didn't. It was just that this instant. What I remember, back and that That was it. I found an off road and buried her in the snow bank. Was anybody else with you? No. Just myself. John, why did you do that? I don't know. To this day, I don't know. Maybe because when when she she said no, I figured I was in trouble. I better get rid of it. Who knows? Only me. You know when you walked in the door today, Yeah. and you right away knew what it was going to be about. Did you? Yeah. What made you want to sit and talk to me about it? Feel better. Feel better? Yeah. It's been a lot of years, John. It's been a heavy weight on you. Yeah. About 100 lbs worth. Have you ever done this to anybody else? No. What do you think should happen >> [clears throat] >> to you at this point in your life for doing something like this? I don't want to go to court. You're telling me locked up? How's that make you feel? Stupid. Yeah. Have you ever looked back look up looked up the case or anything like that since then? No. No. I just tried to shut it out. Did you ever tell anybody about this? No. You Again, it was a long time ago and you're struggling to remember some details, but do you recall what brought you to Minneapolis? Why were you in Minneapolis that day? No. Did you have any routine about your life that brought you to Minneapolis on a regular basis or was it just a coincidence that you were there? I had a girl went to the city. Well, well, well, when that animal had a movie uh Mhm. Well, like myself and many, many others, everybody headed to the theater to watch that movie. After it was in the newspaper with everything. I think that's the reason I was in the city along with a lot of other people. If you don't know what movie John is referring to, consider yourself lucky. The movie was an X-rated movie that was released in 1972, 2 years before Mary's murder, but played in theaters throughout Minnesota and Wisconsin in winter of 1974. And uh we're not talking about AMC theaters here. The movie centers around the act that John claims he was trying to get Mary to perform on him in the car, which only makes the connection more disturbing and implies that John remembers the day much more clearly than he's claiming. Did you go right back home? Did you go somewhere else? I didn't go right home. I had I went and bought some new Levi's because I had blood on them. I threw it away. And I told everybody that I had had a skiing accident. Like [clears throat] Like who Who was questioning you about it? Huh? Who Who did you tell that you had a skiing accident? Was somebody questioning you about the blood on your pants? They only wanted to know where I got the new pants. I said I'd bought some because I got blood on the other ones. And who was that that asked you? I don't know. Somebody in the family. >> [snorts] >> Would it have been Ruth? Huh? Would it have been Ruth? Possible. Okay. Did she ever say anything to you about the car? Seeing any blood in the car or anything like that? No. I took the car and I went north. They came up and got That was it. And I figured, "Oh, I got lucky." But luck runs out. Well, yeah. I mean, we had mentioned earlier that I was This has got to be a relief to you in some respect. But the other side of this is is is her family. You know, they've They're still here. They've been wondering for 50 years what happened to their loved one. So, part of this is we're trying to bring as much detail and closure to them. And obviously, you're the only one that's going to be able to help us with that. I just tell you what I said. That's all I remember. I remember stabbing her. I seen her dead. And I put her in the snowbank. And that was it. So, I want to ask you again, did you ever with her, John? No. No, I did not. That I know. If I did, I do not remember. I remember just what I did. >> [snorts] >> And your final statement about her is you're telling me that and you went to that spot in the country, she was dead when you pulled her out of the car? Yeah. Do you remember how long it was after you picked her up that No, I don't. Like did you drive down the highway for a while? I have no idea. All I know is like I took her up after she I seen her back and put her in the snowbank. That's all I remember. Donald, last thing that I want to ask you before we we go on to the next step with this is if this has been eating you for so long, how come you never came forward with it? I don't know. I just I figured I got away. Got [snorts] away with it. And I leave it like that. Detectives take a sample of John's DNA and take the walk uh shuffle of shame to the cop car. You wait right here, John. John. I appreciate your cooperation with everything, okay? And my partner and I will probably follow up with you again. Okay. But because you're going into the car, I'm going to put handcuffs on you, okay? I'll put them on the front. I don't want you to be uncomfortable, okay? You plan on holding on to this? How you feeling about everything? I don't know. I don't really know. Okay. And you told me that that you killed her because you needed to get rid of her because she denied your advances. >> Yeah. John, I can tell you right now that that's not the full truth. You You You got to listen. I'll listen. >> There There was multiple wounds on her. You do not forget that. You just don't. >> I do. John >> no [clears throat] idea how I did this. John, she had multiple wounds on her. Just on her back alone. She There was a fight between the two of you. She tried to take the knife from you or tried to protect herself because her hands are Both of her hands. You might not want to remember this, John, but but you think real hard and you'll remember it because you do not forget that kind of thing. You remember it clearly. I remember what I did, but I don't remember any of that. Honestly, I don't. John, I don't believe you. >> I don't care if you believe me or not. I know what I think I did. And I don't remember doing any of that other stuff. I really don't. So, how do you think she got wounds on both of her hands? I don't know. All I remember her in the back one time. And then I remember I seen she got dead. So, I threw her away and put her in the snowbank. And that was it. That's all I remember. I'm telling you the honest truth. How do you think a wound like this would happen, John? Look at her hands. How do you think that happened? And I must have grabbed the knife. Must have grabbed the knife. Yeah, and that's what And that's whatever. I don't know that. But that must have happened. Well, are you telling me that if you picked her up, she might have had these wounds already? I don't know. All I remember is her back and put her in the snowbank. That's it. How do you think this would have happened? John. That's her other hand. I keep telling you I don't remember any of that. Okay. [snorts] Does this look familiar to you? Do you remember that that scene? Yes, that's the snowbank where I put her. Well, I'm I'm asking you what you see there. >> [clears throat] >> It looks like a snowbank or whatever. There. It looks like the snowbank where I put her. Are you telling me that it looks like the snowbank where you put her? Well, that's the snowbank where they found her. That's it. So, look at Look at this picture where she is where your hat is where there's a bunch of blood. Yeah, that's the truth, but I don't remember. That's the truth. All I remember her and putting her in the snowbank. That's it. John, we're not As you can gather here, we're not buying that you don't remember any more specific details. This is a pretty significant incident. >> I don't care what you think of my life. I don't remember. Period. I don't know what I'm telling you. I killed her, I put her in the snowbank, and left. That's it. That's all I remember. What were your Hold back up on the What were your intentions when you first seen her? You said you picked her up. You knew she was hitchhiking. What were your intentions? Just give her a ride. And ask her if she wanted to have That was it. >> [clears throat] >> Why'd you have the knife in your car? Huh? Why'd you have the knife in your car? I was filleting fish. I was doing a lot of fishing. Did you typically keep it in your car or or no? No, I always had it in the the visor all the time. You kept it up there? Yeah. Would Ruth tell us that same thing? Huh? >> [clears throat] >> Would Ruth tell us that same thing? Obviously, she You know, she worked hard, too. I don't know. I have no idea. I know I filleted a lot of fish. Whether John set out to attack and take the life of a woman that day is hard to say. However, his family indicated that John leaving a fishing knife in his wife's car was not usual. And I don't know about you, but when I go fishing, I'm not stuffing my fish-covered fillet knife under the visor of my vehicle. Then, there's the matter of Mary's wounds. Mary was at the back and the front, indicating that there was a long struggle. DNA from John was found under her fingernails, and the wounds on her hands proved that she had fought for her life. Mary was truly an incredible person, a talented artist of many mediums. She was making a name for herself, not just as a creator, but so much more. She traveled the world, spoke fluent German and Danish, and was actively learning Japanese. Her work, which focused on women's rights, was on display at the Women's Institute for Social Change on more than one occasion. John took her future from her, and her art from the world, all because of his own selfish desires. And despite being 84, he's still not man enough to admit that. John, what I think you did is when she was still seated in an upright position, No, she wasn't. in the back one time. Period. Then why would she be leaning down like that? Because I She said no. So, you threatened her? I I told her that I wanted her. Okay. She And she said no. And when she said no, she bent over and and started back one time, and that was it. Well, you just said that you threatened her, John. What did you threaten her with? The knife. So, it doesn't make sense to me. If you threatened her with a knife, John, then she didn't just lean forward and back. That did not happen. She bent over and was crying. >> I I I've heard your story, John. You said she bent over and you took the knife and the back and killed her. I've heard that story. But now, you just told me that you threatened her with the knife. You are not going to have her seated across from you and threaten her with a knife that she can't see, and she's not going to lean over and start crying. Something else happened in the car. No. No. It did, John. I don't care what you think. I know what I did. It's not what we think. It's That's what the evidence tells us, shows us. >> [laughter] >> No, whatever way, you're wrong. She sat down over, back. She died. I found a place. I found a snowbank. That's it. No more. It's still Even even that story, that doesn't explain how you explained away blood in the vehicle. Because if you explained to your family that you cut yourself skiing in your skiing accident, that would not explain blood on the passenger side of the vehicle, John. That story doesn't work. I don't care. John, it doesn't work. >> [clears throat] >> You need to come off of this. I don't want to talk no more. Okay, I'm done talking. Okay, John. I'm just curious how my DNA got into the system. What do you mean? How did they get my DNA? When I never done nothing. From evidence on the scene. No. Yeah, but how did they find my DNA and who I was? It's been a several year long process that we've been working on that led us here, just like I told you at your house, okay? So, John, I'm going to have you stand up. With that, detectives walked John out and transported him to jail. At trial, John pleaded no contest to first-degree murder. He was sentenced to life in prison, which unfortunately is not quite long enough for him. It took 18,528 days, or half a century, for Mary Kathleen Schlais and her family to receive justice. But finally, her killer is behind bars. Our thoughts are with all of those affected by this tragedy, as well as the detectives and genealogists who worked tirelessly to put Mary's killer behind bars. Thank you for tuning in. Nearly 85% of everyone watching isn't subscribed. Your subscription and support would mean the world to us, so we can keep bringing you more content just like this. Before you go, check out one of our craziest cases right here, or one of my newest ones right here.