She even said she couldn't breathe and I thought at that point she was getting up. >> I'm getting information that you were there while uh Siobhan was on the chair and Veronica was on her. >> Who told you that? >> Everything happened so fast. >> Okay. >> Meet James and Grace Smith, parents who have just realized that they were responsible for killing their own daughter, Derkica Siobhan Lindsay. Just hours before this, both of them watched and even helped as their niece took Derkica's life. And I had her sit in a chair. When I released her, I told her to get up. She wouldn't get up. >> It wasn't intentionally. I love him and they love me. >> And slowly but surely, all three of these heartless monsters will do anything they can to save their own skins. Which means in the next hour, you will watch terrible lies and even worse acting come crumbling down in front of a mountain of evidence. >> You're going to have to go to jail. >> For what? But I didn't do it. This is so sick. I'm sorry to happen. I love [clears throat] on October 14th, 2017, police in Escambia County, Florida, received a 911 call that brought them face to face with evil. We have a a who is uh either faking it or is not breathing right now. She's in uh had a knife going to cut her uncle and aunt talking to him being disrespectful and I came over here to correct her and she was fighting against us and I had her sit in a chair and she was bugging at us and didn't want to move. So when I released her, I told her to get up, she wouldn't get up. You've just heard the voice of 66-year-old Veronica Posey, the cousin of Derkica Lindsay, who is actually a year younger than she's just proclaimed. Right off the bat, the call has more red flags than a Chinese military parade. Accusing a faking not breathing, for starters, getting her age completely wrong and stating confidently that she was trying to correct her while the tried to flee doesn't exactly paint the most forgiving picture of the caller. And when police arrived at the scene, they realized that forgiveness was the last thing the caller deserved. Inside, they discovered Derkica Lindsay deceased. Her adoptive parents, Grace and James Smith, weren't crying or showing any remorse, and neither was the caller, Veronica Posie. But when they're brought to the station for questioning, well, that changed. The following footage was kindly provided to us by the Escambia County Sheriff's Office. >> You need any water or anything? No, I just want to >> Okay. >> I just want to [gasps] >> It's so sad. >> You just want to get it over with. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Well, before we can start talking, I'm going to read this to you. Okay. >> If you have any questions, I want you to stop and ask me and we'll go over it. Okay. Veronica is quickly read her Miranda rightites since she's in such a hurry to get this over with, which is a bit ironic considering she somehow had the patience to sit on someone for 5 minutes. She explains that she is cousins with Derkica's biological father and that she as well as the family refers to Derkica as Siobhan, her middle name. We, however, will be referring to her as Derkica solely because that is what her friends in school and her friend's parents called her. And out of everyone, those are the people that showed her the most love and respect in her life, not her own family, either adopted or by blood. >> So, I guess Grace, did she call you today or how did you end up over at the house? >> I was at home in the bed uh sleeping cuz my granddaughter, my great-granddaughter was coming over at 2:00 cuz her mother and her boyfriend were going to Tallahass to a show. >> Okay. And so Grace woke me up with with the telephone. And uh she called and she said, "Uh, Veronica, I need you to come over here. Uh Siobhan is cutting up." >> Mhm. >> She said, "I need you to help me hold her. She's running. She won't let me flip her." See, when I come, it's a whole another atmosphere with the kids. >> Okay. >> Oh, now you want me to continue what happened? >> Yeah. Just kind of >> Okay. >> Just walk me through it. And so I knew Siobhan was going to cut up. So I had a broken one of those broken wood rulers, yard sticks. >> Okay. >> And I had a liberty light pipe that just to keep the the the ruler from breaking or it was put a little weight to it. >> Okay. >> So is it taped onto the ruler or >> It was just on my hand. >> Oh, okay. So you just kind of put them together. >> Yeah. and with the ruler. And so, uh, when I got there, we was trying to constrain her for Grace to whoop her cuz she wanted to whoop her. >> Mhm. >> But she was cutting up. She was acting something terrible. >> And, [clears throat] uh, >> what was she doing? >> Uh, fighting against us, bucking. Um, saying what she wasn't going to do. and this wasn't true and you know just being defiant. >> So normally when I go there I haven't been over there a while because I told my I said look I end up in jail behind these kids because they're out of control. So I hadn't been over there in about a month or so. >> Mhm. because I the the estate called me and I had them for about a week to give my honor a release because Siobhan had been cutting up so bad with them over there. I had her and Rachel both they don't give me no problems. They they're good kids, but at home they're holy terrorists. >> Mhm. >> And I told my aunt, I said, "You know what? They know James has a disability. He has short time me shortterm memory and you need to get your hand taken care of >> so you don't have to be codependent on them and they can stop acting like they grown and run the house. I said, "So, it's best for me to stay home because they were very uh [clears throat] >> man manipulative, >> but I loved them >> and they loved me." >> Despite the repeated claims that you will hear about how terrible Derkica's behavior was, everyone who knew her outside of her house claimed the opposite. The parents of Derkica's closest friends noted that Derkica was not only an angel when she visited, saying her pleas and thank yous and her sers and ma'ams, but she encouraged her friends to do the same. When her friends weren't following the rules, she would urge them to. Yet, her family continues to paint her as a disobedient monster in spite of everyone else stating the exact opposite. When police speak to Grace, Derkica's legal mother, she has two main complaints about Derkica, which are a bit ironic coming from her. Um, so tell me about Derkica. Does she have any health issues? >> Okay. >> Just tended to be overweight. >> Okay. Now, how I I haven't seen her. So, how big is she? >> 87. Yeah. About 87 pounds. >> 87 pounds. >> Okay. So, she's one of the bigger in her class. >> Mhm. >> Okay. Does she have any kind of behavioral issues? >> Yeah, she does. >> Okay. Okay. What kind of behavioral issues does she have? >> Uh, well, she has a tendency to lie and steal. >> Mhm. >> And uh she has a attitude issues and she uh books authority. >> Okay. Is that something that's new or has it always been that way? Well, it seems like she's been that way. That's >> But lately she's been worse. I haven't been counseling. >> Okay. >> Because we had problem before with them cuz what they would do is leave home and wouldn't tell you where they were. >> Mhm. >> And then one day she called up one of her friends and had their mother come and pick them up and took them to her house. >> I didn't know where they were. So, I looked for them and I finally had to call 911 and we finally found him. >> Okay. All right. So, um has she ever been diagnosed with autism or anything like that? >> No. >> Okay. >> Um is she combative? Does she usually hit or kick or >> I mean, tell me how she reacts when she gets angry. uh her mouth as the first thing and then all these uh I don't know attitudinal you know things like that >> or you know she does fight like at times you know she might get a a broom and say do things but normally you know she'll calm down. Yeah she'd come down but she could be combative. Okay. Has she ever hit you before? >> But she Well, I wouldn't Well, I would say once she did, but she I don't know if that was on purpose or she had a broom. >> Mhm. >> And she said she was going to hit me. >> Okay. >> And she did hit me now. Well, I don't know if she intentionally did it or she struck out. I don't know if she thought about it if she was going to follow through with it or not, but she did it anyway. She did hit you. >> Mhm. [clears throat] >> Okay. Did she hit you hard? >> Well, I guess so, but I didn't think it was something that she was uh had really thought about that she was just mad and angry. And that was her way of u saying you're not going to chastise me. >> Mhm. So, she'll get the room and say, you know, and try to hit at you, but I don't know if she I don't know if she thought it through, to tell you the truth. >> You've just heard Grace admit out loud that Derkica never physically fought back in spite of the violence she faced. Instead, Derkica tried to run away. In one instance, the one Grace has just referenced, Derkica fled to a friend's house, bringing her younger sister with her. The next morning, when the mother tried to return them, they begged not to go home. However, they refused to say why or what was wrong, likely because they had been coached not to. However, Veronica continues to justify their treatment. All of a sudden, Siobhan, from what I could hear from my aunt, was defiant everywhere she went. Uh, stealing from the school, getting disrespectful with the principal, and they was telling me she uh talked to the teacher like she was a dog yesterday. And I told you when she was over there Friday night, I said, "Baby, check your attitude. Your attitude stink. You need to check it. Yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am. It's always yes ma'am and no ma'am to me. They don't get disrespectful for me cuz I have I told them I said I'm going to spank you. >> You're not going to run over me. You're not going to talk to me no anyway kind of way. You're only years old. You got to respect your elders. I said because you know James and Grace are handicapped and you are taking advantage of it. And I went over there. So they tried to open the front door, but they couldn't >> because uh Siobhan had put a knife in the door to try to get out. They said the night before cuz my aunt told her she was because she was threatening them. And so I said, "Okay, don't worry about it. I'll walk around to the back door. Open the back door." So, Grace opened the back door and I went into the house. Then, of course, hey, cousin Veronica, how you doing? Blah blah blah blah blah. I said, Siobhan, I said Grace told me she got ready to whoop you and you ran again. I said, what' I tell you about running away from James and Grace? I told you, you have to respect them. They take care of you. They buy you clothes. You get the best of the best. And yet you talk to them like they're nothing. And Grace said, "Well, she had a knife. She was going to cut her. Uh she had a hammer." I said, "Javon, what's wrong with you? Lost your mind or something?" I said, "The minute I walk in the door, are you in my presence?" It's yes, ma'am, no, ma'am, and everything is okay. >> And so, uh, I proceed to try to restrain her. the grace to hold her. But of course, I've had two back surgeries and a rotary cup uh surgery a year ago. So, I asked James, I said, "James, help me restrain her grace the hooper." So, Grace had over the belt about I don't know, maybe 10 weeks or something like that. >> Now, was James there? >> Yes. >> So, James was helping you >> restrain her. >> Restrain her. >> Yeah. And so we released her. I said, "Now Siobhan, he been over here. Grace, Grace, and James was there and they was telling me what she had done." >> Mhm. >> First of all, she took a knife when Grace locked the door last night so she could unlock the door to get out so she wouldn't get a whooping. >> Okay. >> And part of the knife is stuck in the lock. Then Grace was telling me about the knife and the hammer and James was talking about how she was talking back at him and how he got she had got into Grace face and she's been really a and this is not the first time but this is the first time it's been this terrible. >> Mhm. >> And so I said lay down I'm going to whoop your butt. So I had the little ruler with the little light pipe on it in my hand, not taped together. Nothing. And I was on her butt cuz I like butt. I don't like legs and I hit you on the butt. And uh she started bucking and fighting and running and stuff. and we were trying to restrain her and uh she was jumping across the couch just just like uh you I'm the boss here. >> Mhm. >> You have no control here. >> It seems somehow completely lost on Veronica why Derkica would be trying to escape being hit with a metal pipe. But to Veronica, a person trying to escape a beating is being defiant. not fighting for their life like Derkica was. On top of that, she tries to justify the behavior by repeatedly claiming that Derkica had a knife and a hammer. Yet, when asked about this, James, the adoptive father, hadn't seen a knife or a hammer. In fact, he didn't mention it at all in his statement, only as an afterth, saying, "I guess she had a hammer at some point." Which sounds a lot like three people trying to justify a crime. three people who weighed close to a,000 pounds trying to justify why they needed to use fatal force against someone who was 90 pounds because it wasn't just Veronica who held Derkica down. It was both of her adoptive parents. >> Well, she was kicking, but I just held her down by the shoulders gently, not real hard, >> cuz you know, a big guy like me, you don't really have to hold anybody real hard. Yeah, you're kind of a >> So, and one reason Well, I held her but then, you know, I I don't like having to discipline kids. I really don't. >> Mhm. >> But so after that, I thought it was over with, you know. So, I go after I held her and Veronica got I thought it was over with. So, I went to my room. I could tell you. >> Okay. So, when you're holding her down by the shoulders, >> was that when Veronica was hitting her with the belt or when Grace was hitting her with the belt? >> Uh, Veronica was hitting her with the belt when I was lightly holding her by the shoulders. >> Okay. Lightly holding her, >> right? >> Okay. I didn't put any pressure on, but I didn't want hurt cuz she was kicking. >> Wow. >> While I was in back, so I wouldn't get >> Okay. >> So, I just firmly held her cuz if you don't, she runs. She has run out the house, >> right? >> Before. >> Yeah. She's a runner. >> Yeah. We have had the cops come out for that, too. >> Okay. Um, so what made you go back to your room? Did it seem like it was resolved or? >> Yeah, that's what I thought it was. >> Okay. How did you How did you think it was resolved? What was the signal to you that everything was fine at that point? >> Usually it is fine at that point because she has spanked her before and then that's it. >> You know I or Grace? Oh, Veronica. >> Okay. >> Because they try to just sometimes just walk all over my wife. So, >> yeah. >> And she's disabled. She She's 69. I'm 62. We're both retired. >> Mhm. >> Anything is going to be like this. >> Yeah. So, >> but I thought it was done because normally it is. When's the last time do you think that Siobhan was disciplined with any that might leave? >> I can't really say. I don't I I've [music] I haven't seen any marks. >> Okay. Well, maybe you haven't seen marks, but when's the last time you know that she was disciplined with some sort of object like a belt or >> a whip or anything that might could possibly leave a mark, even if it didn't? >> I've only seen the bell. >> Okay. When's the last time you saw it? >> Today, that's before I went to my room. >> Before today, when's the last time you saw her be disciplined with It's been a while. >> How long is a while? >> Um, a couple months. >> Okay. Um, so you say you held her down. You think it's resolved, so you get up and go back to your room >> because she sat up. So I didn't think anything else was going on. So I like to keep my door closed cuz if you don't, the kids come in your room. you know, you could be napping watching TV or whatever. So, I I didn't think it was no cause for me to remain out there. >> While Grace and Veronica seem to have no problem explaining what they did, James is smart enough to try and distance himself from the final moments of Derkica's life, he's not smart enough, however, to realize two things. One, Veronica has no problem telling the truth about what happened and who was there. And two, autopsies don't just look at trauma that caused death. They look at historic injuries and sadly in Derkica's case there were several as the medical examiners concluded that she suffered frequent acts of violence not rare ones like James is trying to proclaim and according to Veronica he was there for most of them >> and uh I said sit down and she wouldn't sit down. She was bucking and rolling and everything. So I said, "Okay, Siobhan, get on your knees." Because she was in front of the chair. He like holding on the wall to keep from sitting down. [clears throat] >> Okay. >> So I said, "Get down on your knees." So just just fall on your knees. And when she went down on her knees, I had an opportunity to restrain her. And I sat on her >> to try to restrain her. And she kept kicking and bugging against the wall. And she said, "Cousin Veronica, I ask for a bottle of water." And I pou some on the back of her neck. She still didn't move. So I started feeling for a post. >> I said, "Y'all help." Cuz I I couldn't pick her up. She's too heavy. >> And so I said, "Y'all help me." We try to pick her up from the chair. I said, "Grace, we need to call 911. I'm not getting, you know, I didn't get nothing. I I said, "We need to call 911." And her phone was right behind me. So, I called 911. And so, the operator told us to turn them over. Turn her over. So, me and James and Grace, we turned over on the floor. And then he told me how to do chest compressions, but she didn't come around. And that's what happened. >> Okay. It wasn't it wasn't intentionally. I love them and they love me, >> but they would give me a respect, but they wouldn't give my aunt and uncle. >> You could take them anywhere normally and they do fine. [snorts] But at home, they were destructive. They just were like that almost. But I would go over there and sit and talk to them and sometime we would go ride and it ice cream, you know. I pick him up from the beauty shop and take him home just kicking it, you know, talk to him about respect and doing good in school and get on Siobhan about her attitude and her mouth and baby you only 9 years old. You can't do what you do. I said, "Grace, what are you going to do if she 12?" She's just not. And that's what happened. >> Anyone who is aware of this story would have wished for Derkica to have been placed with a family that deserved her kindness, intelligence, and joy. But tragically, she never got the chance. Thankfully, however, those who took that chance away from her are about to get served some justice. >> Then I hear my Then I hear somebody say, "James, you better come out here." I think it was my wife. I'm not quite sure about who said it and there the incident had been over with and so I I don't know what was going on at that point. So they they looked like they were trying to resuscitate her or something like that, but I don't I I didn't get close enough >> Mhm. >> to actually >> I mean, so you know, you're the last person that I'm talking to, >> right? >> So I've already gotten the other stories about what happened. Okay. So, I'm having a little issue here as far as information on where you were when all of this was happening. Okay. I'm getting information that you were there while uh Siobhan was on the chair and Veronica was on her. >> Who told you that? Well, I'm not going to sit here and tell you who told me, but I've already talked to the two other people involved. And that's the information that I've got is that you were there. And if you're there, it's it is what it is. You know, we can work around it and we can work with you on it. But I don't want you to sit here and try to minimize >> No, I'm not >> what you saw. >> I'm not. This is a serious offense. I understand that. >> Yeah. >> She's no longer here. I understand that, but I wasn't out there when that happened. Whatever happened, I I don't know. >> Okay. I mean, did you when you came out, you just saw Siobhan? >> Yeah. >> On the chair. >> Well, they had got her off the chair, I guess. Grace and Veronica and they're trying to do CPR on her chest. And then that's when my wife Grace said, "Well, let's wait a moment and see if we can bring him back or revive or whatever term you want to use." >> And so they went a couple more minutes and that didn't work. Then they called 911 and explained to them what was going on. So when you came out, they were actively trying to give her CPR on the floor. >> Yeah. >> Okay. That's not what they told me. >> What did they tell you? >> They said they they asked you to help move her off of the chair. And if that's what it is, look, I want you to just be honest with me here cuz it looks bad if you're trying to say things that aren't necessarily true. If other people are already saying that that's what happens, it looks bad if we don't get the real story from you. That's what I'm trying to do. >> I did come out and move her off the chair to the floor. >> Okay. >> But the damage would have been done, >> right? >> Okay. >> Yeah. And I mean moving her off the chair >> to the floor so they can turn her over and see what they can do. >> Okay. >> That's all I did. But whenever you came out, >> did >> Veronica was still sitting on her? >> No, she was standing up. I guess she had been sitting on her. I don't know. I went out there. I mean, did you ask what happened? >> Yeah. >> And they said what? She said she sat on for a little while. What was I supposed to do at that point? Well, I mean, you see where I'm having a little bit of a problem with what you're saying versus what they're saying. It's conflicting. And if I've got the conflicting statements there, I tend to believe two people's statements against one person's statement. You know what I mean? It's kind of one of those things where if two people that are separated are saying the same thing and then this person's saying one thing, what else am I supposed to do? So, they're saying that you were in there while Veronica was on Siobhan. And if that's what happened, that's just what happened. But I don't want you to make up little stories that's going to hurt you, you know? I just need to know what you saw. I'm really too old for this, but Oh, man. Jesus. I was out there a little bit and I did see her sitting on her but I couldn't see it. My chair is my chair's here. There's a desk here. It was piled full of bugs. I had to get up and do like that. >> Okay. And that's that's understandable. You had stuff in your way. You were sitting there in the chair. >> But I thought about it and they tell her to get a bath. >> But I didn't do it. That's I guess that's unique. >> Okay. So, what made you say, "Veronica, get off of her." What was happening to make you say that? >> I didn't say it. That's what bothers me. >> You didn't say it? No. >> Okay. What? >> Not that I wanted her to continue to sit on her because that's a little >> Yeah. >> That's all it takes for James' lies to fall apart. He wasn't hiding in his room when this happened. And he wasn't just sitting in his chair. According to both Grace and Veronica's testimony, he was actively standing next to her and had helped hold her down as she struggled. He's just as guilty as the rest of them. So, there's a couple things that I want to go back and talk a little bit more about. Okay. Um, first of all, I know that you're hearing this information from Grace, but when did they say that this stuff happened with the knife and the hammer? >> The night before and the morning part of the day, I think. >> Okay. So, it's something that happened last night and kind of continued over until the morning. >> Yes. >> Okay. Did Grace ever tell you exactly what happened with the knife and the hammer? >> She told me Siobhan tried to cut her with the knife. >> Okay. >> And uh I can't remember what Jane Jane said something about the knife, too. >> Okay. >> But I can't remember what his part was about the knife. >> Okay. So when you got there, you went in the back door and how long were you there before you started >> anything happened? >> Trying to discipline her? [snorts] >> I walked in the door and I was talking to him. >> So maybe 15 or 20 minutes. >> Okay. So you were trying to talk some sense into her. >> Yeah. >> And what was she doing? Yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am. Like she always does when I talk to her. >> Okay. >> But the minute James the Great say something that's not true. Uh uh I didn't do that and you this. I said their line is on. They take care of you, baby. >> So, how did it go from she's being respectful to you to her? How did how did it get to that point where we've now we can't talk anymore now? It's got to be >> Well, we were restraining her for grace because Grace was the one that was punishing her. >> Okay. >> And she was bugging against Grace and she didn't she refused to cooperate with Grace to get the the whooping Grace was going to give her. I say whooping a little light built. So, what was [snorts] the punishment for? What was the weapon going to be for? >> Grace was getting on her about being talking to her so disrespectful about the knife, about the tip of the knife in the door knob and uh I think the hammer. I don't know. >> Okay. I >> But it was kind of for everything. It was for everything. >> And that was the punishment that she was going to carry out. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, you said it was a belt? >> Yes. >> And where did the belt come from? >> That's Grace's. >> Okay. And where was Grace? >> Standing at the end of the couch. >> Which couch? The one with the plastic or the red couch? >> The red couch. >> Okay. So, uh, Siobhan, was she on the couch or was she standing? when I told her to lay down. So, Grace, >> okay, >> she was laying down, but in the process of Grace hitting her, she jump up and she start kicking and bucking and refusing the punishment Grace was given. >> Okay. >> So, then that's when I stepped in. >> You ended up taking Did you take the belt or did you use your ruler? I used the ruler. >> Okay. >> Cuz I didn't want to use the belly or anything. I just wanted to use the ruler to let her know I meant business. >> Okay. >> And >> so did did Grace stop what she was doing? >> Yes. >> Did you just kind of say, "Let me >> let me take care of this or how did that happen?" >> When she started bucking and running, Grace stopped. I said, "Leave it alone. I got this." Mhm. >> And that's when I begin to spank her. >> Okay. With the ruler. >> With the ruler. >> Okay. How many times do you think that you hit her with that ruler? >> It may have been seven, eight times, something like that. I don't know. >> Okay. And this is still the ruler with the pipe on the back end of it to keep the ruler from breaking. >> Breaking. Yeah. But the ruler broke. >> Oh, the ruler broke. >> It broke. Yeah. And so that ended and when the bruer broke, that's when she broke away and started running. >> Okay. >> And we were trying to contain her and she had gotten away and ran around the couch and and and then James blocked her. When he blocked her, I caught the back of the shirt and that's when I uh when she bent over towards the wall over the chair >> and that's how she got down on her knees. >> Okay. So, she was on that that chair. It's just a little oneperson chair plastic covering on it. >> Yes. >> Okay. So, she was let's say this is that chair. Would it be fair to say that she got in the chair and she was like this? >> No. >> No. Okay. >> She was standing lean up against the chair. Uh, yes. >> Okay. So, let's say it's exactly against the wall like that chair was. >> It's not exact that. >> Is that about right? >> That's [snorts] about right. >> Okay. So, she's kind of like this maybe >> over the top of the chair. >> Did she have her knees in the chair? >> No, she was standing up. So she was just standing and she's trying to brace herself against the wall maybe >> to get away. Yes. >> Okay. >> And I said, "Okay, Siobhan, you can't go nowhere." [clears throat] I said, "Drop to your knees." She said, "I can't." I said, "Yes, you can." I said, "Drop to your knees." And she did. >> So when she when she dropped to her knees, did her knees go onto the chair or did they go onto the floor? >> I think they went to the floor. I can't remember cuz I kept She kept saying, "I can." I said, "Yes, you can." Yes, you can. And when I said drop to the floor and she thought she wasn't going no further, she I can't remember her knee going into the chair. I don't remember. All I know is that she went down on her knees. >> Okay. So, you think you kind of think she was on the floor at that point with her knees like maybe this. She dropped to her knees. How? Why couldn't she get on her knees? Why was she saying she couldn't get on her knees? >> She didn't want to. >> She just didn't want to. >> She didn't want to get on her knees. Did you guys force her down onto her knees? Did you guys maybe >> kick her no >> kick her feet out from under her or anything like that? >> No. >> Okay. >> No, none of that. >> In 2016, leading up to Derkica's death, DeFax was called to the home four separate times. In one instance, they noted the girls were living in deplorable conditions. Their response to conclude that the girls were safe to stay there in the same house where Derkica would be killed just months later. So, how from that point did you end up >> sitting on her? >> Sitting on her. >> Uh, when she went down on her knees >> Mhm. >> and she was bucking and flipping in the chair and stuff. I said, Siobhan, stop. I want to get up. I said, Siobhan, stop. I said, you're not cooperating with us. So, she kept on bunking. And I said, "Okay, I know what to do. I'll just sit here and restrain you till you decide >> to calm down." And that's what happened. >> Okay. When you sat down, how was she positioned >> on her on her knees with her face up? Well, she wasn't down into the plastic. >> Okay. >> Her head was up. >> Okay. And she said, "I came." I said, "You kid." I said, "Your mom, you talking to me." And I was saying, "Well, why'd you do this to me?" She was answering me. We was having a conversation. >> Uhhuh. >> She was answering and bucking. >> I said, "Why you cuss cuss the I can't call her name out the butician. Why did you talk to her like that?" I said, "She's good to you. Why would you tell her you hate her because she's correcting you for something you did? because she along with me, we don't really conversate with each other, but I would pick him up from the beauty shop sometime and she would tell me that she had to get with him about something. >> And and she was saying I said, "But why'd you do that?" Uh, did you do that? Yes. That's the way she was talking. >> Okay. So, she's answering you. You're asking her these questions. She's answering you. So, You said that and I'm going to demonstrate again just just I want to make sure that I've got it clear in my mind >> how this happened. >> So she's on her knees the best that you can remember she's on her knees. >> Yeah. >> And she's What are her arms doing? Are her arms on the [clears throat] chair or is she still fighting pushing away? >> She her arms because she's behind me. Her arms are probably in the chair cuz she's um That was before I sit down. >> Okay. >> To stop her stop her from uh pushing against the pole and bucking and trying to kick us. >> Uhhuh. >> And uh do the position again. >> Okay. So >> So I think she was on her had her arms like this. >> So she's maybe like this. >> Yes. But her head's up and she's not in the plastic at this point. >> No. >> And you're sitting on her, right? >> I sit on her about that time. >> About this time is when you sit to keep her from >> buffing >> doing anymore. Okay. And you're at this point you think she probably hasn't moved. Um would that be safe to say? Did her arm start flaring around or anything? Did she start hitting you or anything? >> No, she didn't hit me or anything. It was just her feet and her bucking moving. You could feel her squirming. >> Yeah, she was squirming. Even when I was sitting and trying to hold her down, she was >> okay. >> She was bucking up and down and you know, she's on her face in the chair and instead of just calming down so we can talk to her, she uh excuse my head back. Remember, she's leaned and she's in she's on her knees in the chair prayer position >> and she's still bucking with her back and her butt to try to get away. >> Okay. [clears throat] And you said you had this conversation with her. So, I mean, you were sitting there for how long would you say? >> Maybe five or six minutes, I guess. >> Five or six minutes carrying on this conversation. And I she said I said well and this is this keep ringing in my ears because my baby gone. She said I said your mom why do you do what you do? I don't know. I said well you don't do it with me. Why do you do it? You're my cousin. I love you. I said crap. You don't love me. >> Just the way we were talking. >> It wasn't no screaming, no yelling. It's just a freak accident. I just I >> A freak accident is a piano falling on someone's head, not someone the size of a piano sitting on a person to restrain them. Veronica accusing Derkica of not loving her is just another knife to the heart because truly she had no one to love but them. Derkica's own parents surrendered her when she was just a year old. Her father was in prison when she was born for having a relationship with someone who uh wasn't half his age plus seven, if you catch my drift, which thankfully landed him on Florida's worst registry, which is saying a lot if you've seen all of our cases about Florida. Grace, James, and Veronica were the only family she had along with her little sister Rachel. Whenever >> whenever she finally said she couldn't breathe, >> that's when I moved. >> Okay. >> She said it two times. She said, "Cousin Veronica [clears throat] can't breathe." I said, "Von, stop praying. You just trying to get up from here cuz you can't cuz you can't move." >> Mhm. >> You trying to, you know, see, she calmed down so her legs had stopped bucking. >> Okay. >> I said, "You just trying to get up from here." So, because I'm controlling you right now. >> She said, "No. I can't breathe. I thought it you playing. Stop it, girl. So, I sit there for a minute and I got up. >> Okay. And that's when you realize >> that she was not moving. >> Okay. >> That's when I realized she was not moving. And when all this is going on and you're sitting in the chair, were you were you putting all your body weight like towards the chair or >> towards the end of the chair? >> Towards the end of the chair. >> Yeah. Where her butt was. >> Okay. >> Not just lean because she couldn't. If I did that, she wouldn't be able to breathe. She wouldn't be able to move. I was just trying to control her and I had my feet on the floor. So, my complete weight was not on her. >> Okay. >> It was just enough to reframe her from the bucking and the way she was popping her back, you know, like pushing against it cuz her hands was in the chair. She was pushing her body up against me. That's what she was doing. >> Okay. Um, so you're saying that you were kind of maybe not putting all of your pressure on >> her. So do you kind of feel like maybe you were doing like this? Like maybe a little bit of a squat or something? >> Yeah, more of a squat, but not complete, you know, like this. I'll show you how I was doing. I was like, "Okay, Siobhan, cut it up. like that. Not complete body weight cuz she couldn't take it. She's a little she's a little girl. >> I don't care even how heavy she was. She's still a little girl. She could take all that pressure. >> But because I was she had room enough to wiggle and move around, but >> I had her refrain so she couldn't move. >> Do you Everything you told me was the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? >> I do. >> Okay. All right. Let me go get that so we can work on that. >> Okay. Anything is I'm sorry this happened. I'm so sorry. I loved her. I was trying to help her. I'm so sorry. [gasps and sighs] Oh god. I'm so sorry. >> I'll be back with you in just a minute. Okay. >> Veronica is left in the room for the next 3 hours. And when police return to arrest her, she can't seem to comprehend what's happened. In fact, she's more concerned about something else while she's waiting for them. >> Yes, ma'am. >> They took my DNA and everything. >> Yes, ma'am. >> And she didn't say I was free to go or what? >> Yes, ma'am. I I don't know if she's got a couple more questions for you. if you'll just hang out here for us. All right. >> Okay. Thank you. >> All right. Do you need to use restroom water or anything like that? >> Yes, I do use the restroom. >> All right. Yeah. You just step down here with me. >> Okay. Thank you. >> All right, ma'am. Go ahead and have you stand up for me. All right. Turn around, please. You don't have anything on you that's going to stick me hurt me? >> No. >> You just stand right over there at the door for me. I'll grab your bag and everything like that. Okay. >> Okay. >> Yes, ma'am. Um, it is for and homicide >> and homicide. >> Yes. >> My god. >> James somehow seems even more shocked. >> Mr. Smith. Yes. >> Can you stand up for me? >> For what? >> You're going to have to go to jail. For what? >> For what happened? You're not being charged with murder, but you're being charged with neglect. >> Where's my wife in jail, too? >> She's on Yeah, she's in jail already. >> Turn around for me. Where's Miss Posie? >> She is also at the jail. >> Mr. Smith, she is also at the jail. Ultimately, Veronica Posey was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole for the first-degree murder of Derkica Siobhan Lindsay. Grace Smith was sentenced to 20 years in state prison for aggravated manslaughter and aggravated neglect. And finally, James took a plea deal, receiving just 10 years in prison for aggravated manslaughter. Our thoughts are with Derkica's friends, her little sister, and of course, her. She was said to be unrelentingly cheerful, and we hope that now she's somewhere where someone can love and appreciate that. Thank you for watching today's video. Whether you're new here or have been with us for a while, check out one of the craziest cases I've ever covered right here, or one of my newest uploads right here.