[Music] Thank you for joining us for the Portland Police Bureau's talking beat on today's special edition of the podcast. We all want everyone that comes through the hiring workshop or the ORPAT to be successful and we want to give them the tools to be successful later on in the academy and it's not just us. Every single backgrounder helps out. So, it's a good group up here like a little family trying to help out. Now, let's jump into the episode. Hi, I'm Patrick Johnson, one of the recruiters here at the Portland Police Bureau. Today, we're here with Michelle and Matt backgrounders at the Portland Police Bureau. How you guys doing? Good. Great. Thank you. All right. Uh, quickly starting with you, Michelle, just tell us who you are and why you like this job. So, my name is Michelle. I'm a background investigator with Portland Police Bureau. I love this job because I have a chance to um assist new applicants going through the background process and we actually help them from uh the start of the process all the way till their higher swearing in date. Uh each applicant is different and their backgrounds are unique which makes my job fun. Um and being a former law enforcement officer, it's nice to give back and help someone else enter the law enforcement career. Nice. It's probably nice to also see some people a few years down the road that are officers out there doing patrol and stuff. It's a wonderful feeling. Yes. Awesome. Matt, yourself? Uh I was a police officer in Las Vegas for Las Vegas Metro Police Department. Uh tale as old as time. I met a girl who was from here and followed her up here. So then I joined the Portland Police Bureau where I worked uh patrol for 9 years and uh 2021 I came up to do backgrounds and um same as Michelle, I love the process. I love trying to hire uh good men and women and I still have obviously most of my friends working for the bureau and so I can see that they need help out there on the streets and it's a good feeling when you see someone that you were able to assist in the process and you run into them and they're having a great time and helping others. Okay. So today I kind of wanted to understand the whole process. Most importantly, we're going to talk about the background process, but so if you could just take me through the whole process quickly and then we'll break down each part of that. The first part, I guess, is apply online at government jobs. So that's number one. Uh you can find that through multiple um searches as well as I joined PPB and other things. So government jobs, you apply there. Uh from there, you will meet our lovely HR person who will send you a PHQ uh which is a personal history questionnaire. Uh you have a couple hours to fill that out, three I believe. Uh from there you will uh get a PHS which is the personal history statement. Uh that is more in depth often 40 pages or more. It covers a large variety of things that we can talk about in a little bit. Those two will be sent to uh the supervisors and personnel who will then assign them to the backgrounders. I believe there's 14 or 15 of us now. So, uh, we all we all have a case load right now between 10 and 12 cases. So, we get that case load. What we do is then we reach out, we contact the applicant and we set up a background interview. We'll bring them in uh usually here to uh central precinct and we'll do a recorded interview. Takes between one and two hours. So, kind of like this, right? Just like it. Just like it. Um, uh, from there they go into uh what we call that's part of phase one. So, phase one is that interview. Um, obviously, uh, the ORPAT, which is the organ physical assessment test, uh, they have to take the NTN, which is if you do not have a 4-year degree, and, um, the rest of the background process, command interview. Yep. Command interview. And, and then obviously running checks and sending out references and doing all the things. Part of that. Um once that is uh submitted by us, it goes up through the chain and once approved, it will uh they will get a conditional offer letter and go into phase two, which uh phase two is psychological and medical testing. Okay. Then you would get hired if you pass everything there. Pass it. Phase two. Yes. Okay. So, we'll just quickly go through that again, but a little slower down. So, the PHQ you said is up a couple hours. I think it's like up to three hours, something like that. What is that looking like? So, uh, the personal history questionnaire, it's almost like a condensed personal history statement. So, it's going to ask questions about their employment, their education, their finances, any legal or criminal history, um, and just starts a foundation and gets the applicant kind of thinking of the items that they're going to need for the longer version, which is the personal history statement. So, it's kind of like after you apply, it's like your first step into get started there. Then after you finish that, which could be done, I guess right when you get it, as long as you have time to that, uh it's going to be the personal history statement that's sent and that has a couple weeks. The personal history statement you're given um two weeks or 14 business days to complete it. Um and it's more in depth. So that one we suggest all applicants take their time um really fill it out completely because that's going to assist us with the um background process and the factchecking. Um, so if an applicant can complete it as thorough as possible. So references, make sure you have all the contact information. Um, have all your employers um, from the very start of your first job. Um, residences is going to go back the last 10 years or to the age of 15, whichever is longer. So, it's very important that an applicant puts all that information um in their PHS because by the time we get to the background uh interview if it's not there, we're going to task them to get additional information. It's going to hold up their background. Okay. So, this kind of goes to my next question. Uh Matt, maybe you can help me with this one. Common mistakes you see at the PHS. I think the biggest one is leaving just boxes blank. Whether it's emails, whether it's phone numbers, whether it's addresses, whether it's past employment, we are lenient when it comes to, hey, I worked a job 10 years ago. I don't remember who the supervisor was. The job's not even there anymore. So things like that is understandable. But when you list out eight references where it gives clear, concise directions, and you don't put half the information in there, uh we often say we're factf finders here. We're we're just going over everything. Well, it doesn't matter whether I like you or not as a person. It's I am reading everything and I'm writing a report on you and submitting it. But when it goes up the chain, sergeants, captains, chiefs look through those and they look for someone who does a thorough and complete job showing that you care about one getting the job, but two that you can write direct you can follow directions and you can write a report. So I'd say that's the number one most common mistake is just leaving things blank. Okay. So we do the personal history questionnaire, the personal history statement and then sergeant then assigns you guys a background. So then now we start the background. So we'll talk a little more about that. So then you guys get this PHQ and the PHS sent to you. Can you break down the background process a little more of that phase one I think you called it earlier? Sure. So um initial part of phase one is uh we get assigned the background. We'll look over all the documents that has been submitted by the candidate and then we send them an initial invite which includes required document list of all the documents they need to provide to us during the initial interview. Um we also uh send them uh waivers that we need in order to process the hiring packet. And then once the required waivers are received, we'll schedule an interview. Um PHS interview or personal statement interview usually takes up anywhere from two and a half to three hours depending on the applicant uh their age and their length of uh work history. Um kind of determines how long the interviews go and their life experience so to speak. Is this almost taking you like page to page if this was printed out? So, basically, we're going to go over everything that they've provided in the personal history questionnaire, personal history statement, and kind of go through everything. And if we're missing anything, um, I usually give them a notepad and a pen and say, "This is your homework assignment. Uh, get these to me as soon as you can." Um, and usually that's reference information, employment information, residence, that sort of thing. Okay. And then, um, we touched on it real fast earlier, we're going to do it again, is the NTN written test. So, a written test is required unless you have a four-year bachelor degree, and it's something you can schedule online through the NTN. There's a link on our website to get to that. Uh, the next thing is the ORPAT. So, our version of the physical abilities test. When can you do that? Uh, do we offer it for free? What else can you do the day you run your ORPAT? So, yes, for the ORPAT, um, anyone can sign up. It is free. Um, just go to joinportlandpolice.com. It's the second Saturday of every month. Um, and then if you're already in the background process and can't make uh the next scheduled ORPAT, our backgrounders will uh make arrangements to do a one-off. Um, but we try to encourage them to sign up ahead of time. Um, the initial email that they are sent before we even meet with them gives them information for both the uh NTN and the ORPAD so they can kind of get a jump start and get those done um before our initial meeting. And so during that same day they set sign up for the ORPAT and I guess what else is offered that day by the by you guys? Uh we do a presentation that day which is basically this. Um usually goes an hour a little longer depending on if we have questions or stuff like that. But basically it's it's the same thing. It's the whole process. It's how to fill out the PHS to the best of your ability, how to prepare for the command interview, what the NTN is, everything. Um uh usually uh myself and one other person gives that presentation. So okay, anyone can sit in on it. We give a break halfway where people then go run the ORPAT during the break or afterwards and then we usually do the second part which is even more in-depth on once again just trying to help people with the process. So if you're thinking about joining it's probably better to do this right at the beginning of like apply and then uh sign up for one of these events. So then you could figure out all about the process, run the ORPAT. ORPAT's good for a year. Good for a year. And I would highly encourage anyone that's on the fence of applying um to come and sit in on the hiring workshop because it goes over in detail what they need to prepare, how to fill out all the forms um and basically gives them a how-to um prior to applying. And then if they want to run the ORPAT after, they're more than welcome. Or if they just want to come and view um and get an idea of what they need to prep for physically, they're more than welcome as well. Okay. So somebody comes to the ORPAT, what if they fail? What's the required times for us versus the state academy? Okay, so the required time for us in order to pass is 6 minutes and 30 seconds. Uh we give them a minute, but for academy time is 5 minutes and 30 seconds. Um we highly encourage anyone that participates in the ORPAT, even if they can't make the time to complete the course. Um that gives us kind of a um base time. So if they don't finish within the required time, they're allowed to come back and as long as they're showing improvement, they can keep coming back until they pass. We ideally would like them to pass within the first 90 days of their background. Um, but if someone is showing improvement and say for the first time they did it in 7 minutes and 30 seconds and they need to shave off a minute and they come back the next month and they're 30 seconds shy, we'll continue to work with that person because we're seeing improvement and showing that they're motivated and they're working and they completed the course. Guess the key there too is if you fail at it your first time, you're not disqualified from the process. You can keep coming back. Okay. Um, so I guess the other part of the phase one would be the command interviews. Please tell me a little bit about that. Command interview is a panel of three usually supervisors, uh, like a background supervisor, a sergeant, and possibly lieutenant captain. We've had chiefs sit in before. It is here at uh central precinct in one of the one of the conference rooms where they're scheduled for 30 minutes long. You get eight questions. Uh each person on the panel ask you the question. You get couple minutes uh you know you figure three to four to five minutes uh to answer those questions to the best of your ability. Uh one of the great things about our command interview is uh the city of Portland uh we send out like a study guide uh usually 24 to 48 hours ahead of time. Uh the study guide is not the questions but it is things that hey this is what you should be familiar with. Obviously there's the plain ones like why do you want to do this job? What you know and then it's all the way of what challenges uh do you think you would face to things like how you can handle stress and the things that come with this job as well. And then it's graded uh by those three graders. They average the scores and uh it's a pass or fail. So if somebody just goes through it pretty well and talks about it prior, they should be well prepared. 100%. I believe if you study that and then and then also go on go on the websites, look up the values of the Portland Police Bureau, right? Learn what I Cares is. Uh one of the things that we do now is we have applicants go on ride alongs with yourself and others and uh talk about those experiences, right? Is show that you understand kind of what you're getting into. I think some people um maybe due to movies or television or whatever don't have a good idea of what this job really entails or from watching the news and maybe only see a certain side of it. So it's take all those experiences and just talk about them. Talk about who you are. Talk about why you want to do the job, how you prepared, and then, you know, once again, throw in things like the I Cares, talk about what the chief talks about reducing crime and the fear of crime. You know, just do a little research and you'll be fine. I'm not sure if you mentioned it, but most interviews you don't get to take any notes. You take notes. You can take notes. Take one page of notes in the interviews. And I typically try to tell our candidates to put down bullet points because the panel doesn't want you reading directly from your notes and answering questions that way. Um, but you can glance down, look at your notes, and look back up at the um, three command staff and answer your questions um, in case you get nervous. They have something to kind of guide them. But no, we highly encourage that. Um, I also encourage our candidates to practice with a friend or a family member, someone they're close to. Um, just answering the questions so they get comfortable speaking. Um, I know for me, even like this, it's hard to speak about myself, but if you practice, it makes things easier. Um, so we encourage our applicants to do that or if they don't have someone to practice with, practice in front of a mirror, um, so they can kind of see if they're making eye contact, um, if they're speaking clearly, uh, answering concisely and thoroughly. So after all this is done, you write up a report and it goes to command staff for conditional offer. And then you guys said it ear earlier, phase two. Can you just tell me quickly what phase two is? I know it's out of your hands at that point, but what that is? Yeah. So, once we get approval through the chain of command, it we um now have a background investigator that handles all of phase 2. And what he'll do is he'll coordinate dates with the uh candidates um for their psychological testing, which is done all um via computer. Um he'll proctor their testing for them. And then, um that's usually done on a Thursday or Friday. And then the following Monday or Tuesday, they'll meet with the psychologist to do the evaluation. And that's um via Zoom or uh Teams. And that interview usually takes about an hour, hour and a half. Um and then sometime during that time frame, they'll see um they'll go for a medical appointment just to make sure that they're physically fit, their vision, hearing um is good to go to be an officer, their heart is okay. Um and then some somewhere in between there, they'll have a random drug test as well. Okay. Very rand can't tell. It's random, right? Can't tell. There you go. Okay. Then get hired. Yes. So once they pass everything, we get the thumbs up from all the doctors and results all come in. Um they get an official offer letter and then they'll be in the next hiring swearing in group. Okay. So the time frames of these what are the time frame we're looking at as the whole process and then what's the time frame for just like the background portion where you guys are with the candidate? I would say the whole process is about four to six months. The background portion at least obviously you split up phase one and phase two as we talked about the phase one that we deal with mostly three to five months somewhere around there. It depends a lot of times on the applicant as well, right? Is getting their paperwork in, getting the required documents in. When we send them emails, being responsive, not waiting sometimes a week or more as you go, oh, sorry, I don't check my email. Well, I mean, you're in the process of trying to get hired, check your email. References is a big one, too. Um, you know, we list eight that we want. Usually, though, command likes to see double that, if not more. And that's usually not only the AU list, but supervisors from work or past supervisors, spouses, um you know, uh domestic partners, things like that, neighbors, anything like that is, hey, you've only gotten six or seven references back. I need some more, please. So, it's just being on top of that is being receptive to anything that we need. We have a checklist we got. Hey, let you know or even scheduling the ORPAT. Oh, I'll take it next month. Well, now you just have to wait a whole another month. It's like that's why we tell people if you're there, you might as well might as well try it. Yeah. If you fail, you can take it again the next month. So things like that, that's what slows it down. And a lot of the background is on the candidate themselves. Um again, uh we give the references two weeks to do um what we call reference questionnaire. And probably about a week and a half, I'll send an email out to the candidate saying, "Hey, can you reach out to these individuals? I haven't received a uh reference questionnaire back. Um just touch base. Um sometimes the email addresses are incorrect. Our system doesn't tell us. So just check with them to see if their emails are correct. If it's an uh elderly reference who not very tech savvy and they prefer a phone call, just communicate that with us and we'll call the reference instead. Um but those references usually is what holds up the background and takes a lot of a lot of time. That's good to know. Uh, so for applicants not in the Portland area, 100 plus miles out, a different state out or something like that, they see our process and at first like, "Wow, that's a lot." And then I tell a lot of them and realize at the beginning that's all done online. Can you tell me if someone's from out of state, what they can do online, and then when they have to come to Portland, how many times they have to come to Portland, what they do when they come to Portland? You can literally do almost everything online. Uh that's the beauty. I do many interviews either over the phone or over Teams. You can obviously fill out all your paperwork, send in all your documents now. Um you can you can do the command interview where we'll set it up via Teams or Zoom. Um we can uh get all the way to phase two and now you can do psychological online where that's all done through not whatever they use telehealth I believe something like that. So you would if everything goes as planned, you would at best you could come out just one time and that would probably be we can even do fingerprints now where we'll mail them fingerprint cards and they can get them done at a local police station and then mail them back and then we submit that through our forensics and that gets done that way. So so you could only have to fly out at one time if you do it right and that would just be to run the ORPAT and then to take your medical. You were right along to come see me. Yeah. I mean, yeah. And my counterparts. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, Matt, I heard you're the relocation expert, so I got the right person here. Yes. Yes. Going back to the last thing we were talking about coming from out of state. Yes. Tell me about relocation, what we offer, and kind of just how does it work? I'll do my best. Expert would be loosely termed. Um, came from Michelle. So, yeah. Yeah. Um, he's our go-to when it comes to relocation. Yeah. Maybe that just means she didn't want to answer the question. Yeah. Uh, basically we will reimburse up to $10,000 for someone that's over 100 miles away. There is a list of things that I won't list them all of things we can reimburse and things we can't, but if you are over 100 miles away, which we have many applicants that are, and we have hired many new officers that were, uh, you will get a pre-move agreement. It's a little PDF file that lists everything that we cover and that way there's no questions at the end of the process. And basically it can be things like airfare to fly out to take the medical to take the to run the ORPAT to do the ride along or that scenario. It can be the food that you ate uh while you're out here. It can be the lodging where you stayed. It can be the rental car that you rented. Um all those things. And then when they actually move here, which I did as well, which I had relocation reimbursement 15 years ago when I when I did it. This is why you're the expert. Uh well, back then it took I think 6 months. I think we got it down now to a couple weeks. We're pretty good at it. So, um probably because we're getting a lot more out of state applicants and officers, but when you actually do the move now, we pay mileage. So, which is like 70 cents a mile or whatever it is now. We, you know, the you get your pod or you get whatever anymore. I don't know all the moving companies, but you know, we just had one, I just submitted it and it was signed off and the moving company was like $4,750, right? And that's covered. And um so and then it was uh the mileage driving up here, obviously all the packing expenses and things like that. But that list that we send out beforehand, you just sign it. That way you understand what's covered and what's not covered. Uh but it's it's a great deal when you're moving out um and coming from somewhere else obviously with a family or even by yourself, you might not have those that money to spend. I know I I didn't. And when you have to all of a sudden spend 56 7,000 to move your entire household, it's nice that you can submit all these receipts and that's one of the things we need is receipts and then uh we kind of do the rest for them. Submitted up and it goes through the chain all the way to the mayor and then back down and um then they uh get submitted to payroll and they get the reimbursement a couple weeks later. Typically it's on the second or third paycheck that they'll get the reimbursement. Nice. And I'm going to add one thing that totally reminded me of something. Um for people that are going to do the ORPAT and they're fearing the push pull machine, you are one of the coaches. Yes. I will you come out to the hiring workshop in the ORPAT I will coach you uh just let me know I will coach you through the push pull that's where everybody tends to struggle whether they're male female um body type doesn't matter everyone struggles with that machine and it's all technique so if we can just get them to learn the technique um by the time you're done running your six laps if you can remember the technique you'll be golden perfect I will say I if I am the relocation expert which I am not Michelle is the ORPAT expert we of all the people we've hired that I've here in the last 3 years. I don't think we've had one fail the ORPAD at DPSSST, even with our extra minute on it. Um, and part of it is just the way that we have the course set up, the way that I mean it is precise. The way that obviously Michelle goes out of her way to help coach and help others and just I think the whole team there when we're there, we all enjoy being there, you know. Um, and I think the ultimate thing is we all want everyone that comes through the hiring workshop or the ORPAD to be successful. And we want to give them the tools to be successful later on in the academy. Yeah. And that's, you know, why I do the presentation. That's why she runs the ORPAD is and it's not just us. Every single backgrounder helps out. So, and it's a good group up here, like a little family trying to help out. Nice. What does a successful candidate look like in background for you guys? So, a successful candidate is someone that's that's honest. Um, who completes their paperwork thoroughly, who's responsive, um, yeah, that's basically it. We just want to make sure that they're getting the things in that we need. Um, they can pass all the requirements. Okay. You need to add I agree. I think honesty is like the big one and people worry I think a lot of times on people are embarrassed and obviously both being in law enforcement and both doing this job for a couple years like we've seen and heard it all like and I understand things can be embarrassing in your past and there's a whole variety of things that can cover but um we are able to mitigate things like finances is a big on other things that people, you know, oh, I missed some bill payments. I got this, this went to collections, like, you know, and people won't talk about it and then obviously that's found out and that's an issue. But when people do talk about it and they're and they're honest about it, hey, this is what happened. This is my plan I'm on or this is what payments I'm doing just for obviously finances, for example, is we can mitigate things like that. We can write that up. Hey, this is what happened. This is why they lost their job or they did this or that. And then this is how they have gone about trying to fix it. So that's the number one thing that we run across and there's many times where I write it up and you can show basically dishonesty or omissions on things and I truly believe once again I don't make the decision but I truly believe if they would have been honest on it like if we would have written up and they explained it to me later that they probably would have got hired and that's always just a shame when that happens. Um, so that's that's the big one and then Michelle covered the other ones. All right, so these next two questions are right after background, but hopefully going to help me answer these. These are two most frequently asked questions that we get, so I figured we'd talk about it real quick. When I get hired, do I go right to the academy? So, usually there's uh a week to two weeks that they're in a warehousing um status and then uh they go into what we call pre-academy here at the training division and then there's about a week or two and then they'll go straight into state academy. So, there is some short period of time where um they're warehouse with us or they're in pre-academy prior to going into state academy. And most importantly, they're getting paid as an officer. They're getting paid. So the day that they're sworn in, their time starts as an officer, their pay starts as an officer, their seniority um begins as well. Yeah. Officer pay starts day one. Yeah. That's why I tell people it's a marathon, not a sprint. So when they're like, "Oh, I don't get to go to pre-academy for like 3 weeks." And I'm like, just relax. Like and they'll get sent to like quartermaster or detectives or someplace where they'll get to meet some people and see some other new hires. And that way you're just not thrown into the fire right away. So, it's actually I think it actually pretty good. And the other questions kind of like that but a little different is they're always like when is the next academy? What academy are you hiring for? We hiring for or we just hiring every so often. So, we don't hire for a specific academy. Uh we typically have hire dates every other month. Um and then it will fall into the next academy after their hire date. Yeah. All right. One of my last questions here. So applicants can apply at 20 and a half or when whenever they want after that. But say some are younger, some are in the military, not out yet, some are in college, not out yet. If you could talk to an applicant that's one to two years out, what advice would you give them to be successful in the background process? What could they be doing now to prepare themselves? So they can start um getting all their reference information for anybody that's known them for at least two years. Get all their contact information. Uh, same with their employment history. Start marking down all the jobs that they've had up until their current one. If they're still in school, that's fine. Tell them that they'll need their transcripts for once they graduate. They can start making sure that they have a clean uh driving history. Um, one of the disqualifiers is if they have too many uh moving violations or convictions for um speeding within a certain amount of time. Um, so make sure that they're monitoring their driving. Um they're making good financial decisions. So, just little things like that to keep in mind until they're ready um age appropriate to apply. Okay. I'd say same thing. I mean, work history is important. Don't just quit jobs and that's one of the things obviously we look at is being responsible. Show the biggest thing is is showing responsibility and true you can get all those things together and you can be prepared but if you aren't having you know a solid background before that with like work with like Michelle said finances stuff like that and the other thing I know we have programs once again cadets things like that's definitely a pipeline in where it will lead to it gives you the opportunity where you're already familiar with the process and you're familiar with the police bureau but doing stuff like that going on ride alongs right? Trying to um do things like you would do for any resume, help out in the community. Like anything you can do to build that resume to show that um cuz even at 20 and a half, I'll be honest, like 20 and a half, we're faster than I think they did that cuz it used to take 6 months. We're even quicker than that now. So I mean I hired someone who was they applied at 20 and a half and they had to wait like an extra month or two before they finally turned 21. Not bad. No, you have a job waiting. They were waiting for that like literally the day I think I think um she got sworn in like 3 or 4 days after she turned 21. Um but it's just she was also a cadet. So it's preparing yourself and just understanding like the responsibility and the magnitude of this job that you're applying for. Like it's it's a great job and it's a wonderful and it's a fun job I said but it is a big responsibility. So you just want to prepare yourself the best you can. Yeah. Yeah. And if they can do ride alongs with multiple agencies to see how a big agency versus a small agency, I would highly suggest that. Internships, if they're able to do internships um in different roles, whether it be probation, parole, police, um those are all very good experiences prior to entering this field. Okay. Do you have anything for us? I know Matt has a closing statement to make, so I want to know before we get to him, Michelle, if you have anything more to add before we're done here. Uh the only thing I would like to add is to please check joinportlandpolice.com website. Ton of knowledge and information there about the process. Um you can text a recruiter uh for more information too prior to getting to us which is amazing. Now um so yeah, I would just highly recommend people go to our website, text our recruiters. Anything in closing, Matt? My final thing and this is what and you can totally cut this out later if you want. I always say this at the end of my presentation and because people come into this job and oh, I'm going to save the world or I'm going to save the city or I'm going to do this and I always tell the story of when there's the giant storm on the beach and there's an old man the next day walking it and he sees a young boy walking the other way and every now and then he picks something up and throws it back in. And he finally gets up to him and he says, "Son, what are you doing?" And he said, "Um, all these starfish washed up washed up on the beach in the big storm and they're going to die." And the old man looks around and he said, "Son, there's hundreds of miles of beaches and thousands of starfish. What you're doing can't possibly matter." And a little boy bends over and picks up a starfish and throws it in. He says, "But it mattered to that one." And that's what I always close my presentation with. And it's true. Like, it's one of the greatest jobs I think there is to help other people. And that's how you're remembered in life is trying to help others. And this job gives you that opportunity. And you can't save the world and you can't save the city, but you can go out daily and you can try to help others. And that's why we do what we do here is to give people tips. So maybe they don't understand how to do it all or maybe they're confused, but they have that desire and drive in them to help others. And you know, we really enjoy seeing them down the road. And there's not one that I've hired and I'm sure Michelle hired that we run into and they're not like I love this job. I love it. I'm so thank you for and we're like I didn't I just kind of checked some boxes. You're the one that did the work, right? We're just here to help you through it. So that's my closing. Well, thank you too. We really appreciate it. If you have any questions, go to joinportland police.com. You want to check out more podcast or contact a recruiter or to apply to check it out. Thanks. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks again for listening to this special edition of the Portland Police Bureau's Talking Beat. A reminder, the Portland Police Bureau is currently hiring new and lateral officer positions. To learn more, contact a recruiter or visit www.joinportland police.com. You can cut my starfish story if you want. I love the starfish. Starfish.