i'm volusia sheriff mike chipwood and we are about to record episode three of chit chat here at hooligans with two of my most favorite people join us for the segment [Music] all right welcome to episode three of chit chat we're here at hooligans on isb and based on the comments that we received from the first two episodes episode three features my parents mike chitwood and liz chitwood who actually you could say are the founders of chit chat the name of it at least so uh you guys are pretty popular with social media people are asking when we were gonna bring you guys on so for episode three you know we got you on board we got you hooligans and uh i guess the uh first question that we got it was to mom what was it like in the chitwood household in the 60s and the 70s pretty crazy your father worked all the time i had the kids over all the time it was a lot of fun they kept i was company for me and uh kids are kids they do crazy things but nothing really bad we were lucky and dad would come home every four or five days and not have to remind him who he was it all worked out what are your recollections of our household in the 60s and 70s wow i think your mother put it best it was it was kind of crazy uh and i always said to her that she should have been a deputy chief because she knew more about what was going on than i did and um i always used to use her to uh help me serve search warrants in in the 60s and 70s or call her eight nine ten o'clock at night and say do me a favor call this number and see if so and so is an asking piece of if he's holding the statue of limitations i think the statue of limitations is up on that one so that was a long time ago say i'd have to hit the door down but i can't hit the door until you call them i got to make sure they're in there so i had to make sure i was like a a drug model or something like that and then tell them whether they were there or not never got paid for it but hey you know that's all right well you did you're taking on trips and stuff so i mean you had to look at it that way that's true so the 60s and 70s was was an interesting time as as every every decade thereafter uh was an interesting plus well you got to figure you joined the philadelphia police department in 1964 a couple months after i was born in 63 beth was born in 67 67 so you're you're a young mother with two kids and he's working he your class in the academy that never made the graduation never never never graduated pulled outside 55 years later i never regretted it because you were you guys you guys were pulled out because of the riots in columbia it's in august of 1964. so one of the other questions is uh what would you say some of the my misspent youth was spent doing really what tell us something about what the sheriff's youth we don't know about well he really didn't date until he was like 18. that's not true that i know you remember the mood rings ralph's oh yeah christine seventh grade you're right seventh grade you're right sorry about that but he never went to any proms or anything because he always wanted to play ball so he he was wasn't interested in all that so i went to the shop and i went through them as you said i forced you to go to the softball from yeah there were a few times you forced me to cook up with somebody it was kind of like oh god get me out of here this young girl's mother who was a neighbor great she was a nice kid i know i wanted to have that experience of a prom and dancing and she was a little different i really don't know if you danced at all well back then guys didn't dance they went out in the parking lot and drank beer that's more than i needed to know we don't want to know that so one of the other questions was that and i can answer this one i never really wanted to follow in my father's footsteps as a kid he was my hero uh you know i wore his jerseys you know and read his scrapbooks and i hate to say i played with his guns but i played with his guns all the things that boys do and then as a teenager he was the antichrist he was everything that i didn't like i didn't like cops i didn't like you know what he did for a living and then obviously you get older in life and you're 21 years old and you have a couple kids and you say you know maybe that mom weren't really that wrong about the things they used to say i'm glad this is being tainted now i don't want to replay you know we could you know we could we could look at that i mean you know who thinks their parents are cool right but when you become a parent all of a sudden your parents become pretty pretty and pretty knowledgeable that's true i agree with that i know you i think you were kind of surprised when i called you you were the chief in portland i think i was in no i was in middletown the first time and joined the septa place southeast transit translation and then subsequently you wanted to philadelphia a couple months later because they weren't hiring at first is that that's where that philly wasn't hiring so everybody went into the transit and then like six months later they listened they lifted that and then everybody that was had graduated switched over into philly uh so 55 years of policing retired what now december 1st 2019. so this will be three years into it have you acclimated at all uh not really not really i mean flawed is a great place to be but i'm still personally not acclimated to it because i still feel that when i left and i retired after 55 years i still had another three three to five years left in me so i still got another two did you so when you get hired you're you're a 19 year old when you get hired i was 19 years old when i went to the academy and in your 20-year you so you do 20 in philly and then you get offered you retire and you become the police chief of middletown township bucks county and mom who we were all born and raised in our house on firing street in south philly that's right and now you move out to a suburb where in south philly everything's on top one another you walk to work you walk to we did i walked to work food shopping years and years was great and then now you move out into the suburbs and well the first the first couple years we stayed in philly so i commuted back and forth to philly until we sold the house we sold the house and clarence and then subsequently we've moved into an apartment uh in middletown township so i think all of us that do this for a living there are certain indulgable moments to our careers that affect not only you as as the person who went through it but it also affects the family so and one of the things i'm thinking about is if you tell our viewers uh on the narcotics rate when your partner was shot and what came out of that for the rest of your career well i was in the narcotics squad in philadelphia and we were doing a raid early in the morning around 10 30 in the morning and during the course of interaction between police to local law enforcement and the dope dealer well he was inside that inside the residence with another guy and a baby and as we get to the front door of the apartment knock on the doors police search warrant a shot rings out and my partner gets shot in the chest i then pick up the sledgehammer and proceed to break the door down and as i broke the door down i could hear somebody say it's chipwood out there and another shot's fired and it just goes over my head just misses my head subsequently we get inside and there's a shootout between myself and the uh dope dealer and he fires once at me i fire three times at him i know that i got three rounds left my partner shot in the chest at the time he was in critical condition and waited for an ambulance to come to take him to the hospital temple hospital which was a block away and during the course of the gun battle i was able to get the drug dealer to surrender and as he come out of the room i had every intention to shoot him this was back in the 70s i didn't think twice about it i was going to blow him up and he came out he was carrying a baby and thank god i didn't fire because if i had a fire i would have hit the baby there was a fight that ensued we subsequently broke both his hands to retrieve the baby and he was arrested the second guy tried to get out a window and we were able to grab him and we were going to drop him out the window we were three floors up and numerous police responded to the call of the shooting so we didn't hurt him any more than he was hurt and subsequently my partner was rushed to the hospital they never removed the bullet out of his chest because it was laying on his spine and they felt that if they had operated his spine it could have been affected so he came back to work maybe months later and the first house we hit he wanted to hit the house and he wanted to hit the door and he hit the door with the sledgehammer the door was fortified with an iron bar behind it and he just went and fell on the floor and that was it he never he never came back to work he subsequently opened the bar and became a bartender and uh that was it and we'd like to come over at christmas time and after a couple cocktails show everybody to scarce yeah he loved it he would love to do that he would love it and in fact when the trial came he took a shirt and a button his shirt to show the judge and the jury that he was shot and this is what happened to him which leads me to the question for you as a wife and a mother you know i could remember back before cell phones before the internet you would have the news owner you would be watching a tv show and they would break in and say a philadelphia police officer has been shot and you wouldn't be able to get a hold of him because he just couldn't do it and you would wait with baited breath until the news report came on and of course if a car came through the street you were white knuckle thinking it was a police car coming to the house to take it to the hospital so as as a wife of a career and a mother as a career law enforcement officer what advice would you give to other spouses and mothers as their sons and daughters i think that you have to have a strong faith you have to pray that they'll always be protected and that they come home every night to their family and that kept me going and i tried not to watch the news most times because i knew he could never get to me he would say if anything happened to me the car will come and pick you up so one night it's 3 30 in the morning and i hear somebody banging on the front door and i he always said don't open the door so open the window i look out and it's police car and that minute i thought my life is over it's at an end and i said could i help you what do you want and they're like is this such-and-such they had the wrong house in the wrong street that's the closest i ever got thank god i've been fortunate with either one of them so just got to roll with it so you would say prayer was your way of dealing with stress and worrying and and i had an obligation to for take care of my children and keep that house stable until he came home so i had that was my part of the story so i think it's the second i mean there's so many things i think that i think the the viewers don't know that when you retired after 20 years in the philadelphia police department you were the most decorated officer in the city's history different departmental accommodations i think you had over 70 when you retired but i know there was a and a moment when you knew that your days of being a big city homicide detective of being that dirty harry uh which moniker of the media hung on you was it an end you want to talk a little bit about that in one case in particular when you're outside i have to go back about three years prior to me leaving philadelphia and i was a homicide detective and there was a murder of a young girl by the name of nicoletta caserta and i remember testifying in court when the case came up and we did a major investigation and a woman detective who has since passed on carol keenan worked with me and numerous other detectives and we were able to identify the perpetrator subsequently to lock the betty up and subsequently get the knife that he used to stab nick nicholetic assertive and i can remember even to this day so many years later going to the basement of the house where the young girl was wrapped that had a had a cord wrapped around her neck a wire cord and she was dressed in a great school uniform she went to a private catholic school and she was only 10 years old at the time and i can remember looking at her and thinking oh my god looks like my daughter i can remember that to this day and like everything else the first by dead body you see it's kind of traumatic and you know how do people live then afterwards you get so used to it and back then it had like 400 murders a year in philadelphia so being a homicide detective for about eight years uh you kind of get uh numb to what you see but this this this this really really upset me subsequently we arrested the guy now we go to court and i can remember going to court and i can remember the d.a prep in the case and i can remember the family of the dead girl who i had no love for because as far as i was concerned they were real pieces of crap and uh while in front of the prep of the district attorney and the detectives and the family of the the young girl um they gave me a kitten give me a gift i didn't ask for a gift but they gave me a kitten and they said that this is for the job that you guys did and you in particular because i was a lead investigator subsequently i went to court i testified and i can remember testifying i said earlier we found the knife the knife had her blood on the knife and we found the knife in his sewer outlet he led us the perpetrator the bad guy led us to the knife and i can remember vividly uh me testifying and when i got to the point well tell us what the defendant said and i proceeded to i warned him of his rights and i proceeded to tell him as i started to say what happened i choked up i choked up and i couldn't believe it so they called the recess and i go back to testify i get to the point where why he killed her and he proceeded to tell why he killed her uh i choked up again but then i started crying and i said oh my god and you know the lawyer the defense lawyers stood up we demand a mistrial we do this we do that so i took they call the recess they broke for lunch and i walked from 14th street which was city hall to 30th street which was the train station and then back trying to get myself together so that i could testify because i was the one that took the statement from him and i get back and a reporter from the local newspaper grabbed me and said i saw you testify and you started to cry what happened and she was not a fan she was not a chitwood fan i said well i guess that i realized today that i was a human being and this really really impacted me this case and i went back i testified he was found guilty like within 25 minutes of first degree murder he was sentenced to death in an electric chair probably another 20 minutes later uh subsequently he's serving life now he they threw out the death penalty on him but i remember that that was when i had to make a move to get out of the philadelphia police department and take my experience and what i learned in the philadelphia police department and put it to some use in a job as a police chief so for the next three years that's what i did i didn't have the academic qualifications but i had the life experience and experience on the street and that's what they were looking for so my first police job was in middletown township small department maybe 50 officers and i was there for like four and a half years i went back to school i got my master's degree i got my bachelor's degree i got my master's degree and i went to temple got an associate degree from there subsequently i wound up going to portland maine so south philly kid row houses your mom grandma gene a couple blocks away from us dad's parents less than a mile from us everything you ever knew in your whole life and now he comes home and says factor bags removing the portland maine i was like my mom says oh my god they have bears there so i said mom i don't think they're walking down the street so i said i was i said i don't know what to do i'm afraid you know i have this whole support system and i won't have anybody and she said your family will love you no matter where you are but if you miss this opportunity you may look back and regret it and i went i got i just was the best thing that ever happened to us i come from an italian family where nobody moves away from anybody and for me to move out of the city was huge my aunt called me don't do it don't do it and it was the best thing that ever happened for me for growth just to grow and learn i loved it he loved his job he had a great time it was a great place to live so during those main winters when you had no power and you had four feet of snow you loved all that huh the first year two weeks of summer was about two weeks the second year we got 120 inches that wasn't fun but i learned how to drive in the snow because i called him and said i have to go to work i can't drive in the snows you'll have to learn because i'm not coming home and i just said follow the plow and that's what i did [Music] between every crisis and every first responder is a 9-1-1 operator no two emergencies are alike and our highly trained 9-1-1 public safety telecommunications professionals use their critical thinking and decision making skills to get the right personnel on scene as a valuable member of our team you will earn a competitive salary and outstanding benefits plus the satisfaction helping others and making a difference in your community are you ready to answer the call 9-1-1 where's your emergency hi i'm savannah jane griffin i'm the chief executive officer of the neighborhood center here in in west volusia and i'm wayland niece the chief operating officer of the neighborhood center of west volusia part of our mission is feeding the hungry and so we have a food pantry here that feeds many people they come and pick up food daily we're looking for food donations so if you have any non-perishable items or produce that you'd like to come and donate we encourage you to come over we also feed individuals lunch and dinner daily here at our bridge shelter and so if you're interested in donating food to serve meals to or potentially volunteering in our food pantry and in our shelter we are always looking for volunteers another part of our mission is to prevent homelessness and to house the homeless and we offer a wide variety of resources and funding opportunities to help people stay in their homes such as rental assistance and utility assistance we have two shelters the bridge shelter and our regular shelter and we also have over 60 units in the community in which we house over 200 residents nightly in volusia county we could use all of the support in maintaining these homes and acquiring new affordable housing [Music] one of the other things that i think that the viewers should know and i'll point you to when police officer washington was assassinated answering a domestic violence call uh at that time the philadelphia police department really didn't have hostage negotiators right and it was something that you on your own volition put yourself through training to become one of the only hostage negotiators in a seven thousand person department to talk about about that i can uh i had gone to florida four places florida to learn hostage negotiation from two a psychologist and a police captain out of new york city and they were doing some training down in miami beach so i went down i flew i flew down on my own dime and went to school for like i guess a week it was and um they were very very good uh the issues that i learned and they were really really important and later on in life they played themselves out tremendously but officer washington responded to a domestic call and he was probably three-quarters of a block away and he was in a wagon and the wagon pulled up and blocked barricaded the street so that cars or pedestrians couldn't get down the street and the perpetrator the bad guy had a long rifle and fired a shot took aim fired a shot and lo and behold shot him in the head killed him so now we had to get him out of the house and the girlfriend who was there subsequently ran out of the house and as she did he had a solo shotgun in addition to a rifle and he opened up with a solo shotgun and blew the hood of her volkswagen convertible right right off the it's hinges so now he's shot a police officer he's fired at the girlfriend we know he's got a long rifle and we know he's got a sort of shotgun so my job was i was a homicide detective my job was to talk him out and subsequently we discussed a variety of things that i had learned to discuss down in the training and subsequently i was able to get him to throw his gun out and then i wouldn't meet him so almost simultaneously so that i would meet him he would meet me and then he would see that i wasn't going to hurt him or he wasn't going to get hurt now you have to remember surrounding the entire emphasis incident was the swat team and they wanted to blow him up and again this is in the 70s so they wanted to blow him up but we were able to get him out subsequently he came out subsequently he was convicted since the prison uh i don't even know if he's still in jail but uh there were no other injuries then what happened to the poor police officer was shot and killed well i think one of the things you everybody you should know is that you sell no bulletproof vest no anything you had there was a great picture in the paper where the swat team is loaded for bear and you're there negotiating with the guy and there's no bulletproof vest there's no helmet there's no nothing actually we're gonna get that somebody asked a question about the trench coat if that's standardized back then back then they had no health rights and they had no they i know like a hodgson negotiator i mean that was the first time that i was able to uh get involved subsequently after that numerous other times i got involved but uh at that particular time there was no vest there was no helmet there was nothing that uh the negotiator had and we would find out by watching the news after the fact yeah which is if he could if he couldn't get the phone which she probably didn't really do and if they were going live and it was around that time we would be watching or you would be watching the news watching what unfolded yeah because it either had to be a landline which would be in the precinct or or pay phone which or obviously or is beeper that was it so you just said back then no that's true you didn't they did you just have to sit and wait so i'll i will go into and and tim you might as well come in here i mean we're you're going to be part of this so i want you to i want you to meet my mom and dad and thank you i've met them it's probably been about two or three years you're right that's right but i believe that it was actually downstairs thank you for allowing us any time to do this yes you know especially at lunchtime yeah anything for you you know that oh yeah right you're always you're always there for you know you guys are always there we talked about that yesterday yeah we talked about how when i have lunch here for the you know when i do my round table lunches how he always pads the bill for me he said the sheriff's got it don't worry about it order anything you want and take it take out for them but we give thank you i appreciate it though very much anytime anything you guys enjoy you need anything at all you just raise your hand thank you thank you so nice to see you guys thank you thank you for allowing us to do this yeah time like i said and uh you know i'll get to the the one case that i know i think my marks suffered greatly on uh was the uh holly maddox irei horn and i remember when you had that little portable typewriter even when you were narcotics and you would type pet and peck on it but then at the hollymatics case you would you would that search warrant was a book and you would leave it on the table when i was in high school and i would always stop whatever i was doing or say i was studying and go into your room or go wherever it was and read the search warrant which was which was like i said a novel so if you want to talk a little bit about uh that case in particular that was in that that was national it's going on forever and ever and ever and he's still he's dead now thank god so uh again you're you're going back a lot of years but i was in homicide i was put on the bench meaning that i wasn't allowed to go out on the street because i was under investigation and i got a call to go up to the commissioner's office and the commissioner at the time was a gentleman by the name of joe neal and he said i want you to meet the two former fbi agents who have since retired and they're working this case and i want you to get involved with this case and help them out in any way you can so i can remember talking to the two gentlemen and uh they had put together a booklet and but they put the booklet together as civilians not as law enforcement because they were no longer in in the fbi they had retired like i said and uh my job was to get the booklet they put together and then get a search warrant and search ira einhorn's apartment because apparently it was felt that the body was still there at some point if not there physically there at one point in time and then moved so did tell who who i was did you get into that tell them einhorn was a guru he ran for mayor of the city he was hooked up uh the university of pennsylvania's professor uh he was kind of a semi-cultural hero of the of the 70s planetary enzyme i think was the term i really enjoyed that he called himself and you know i mean i'll get into that a little bit as we go to search the house so anyway i read the report and i give the report to mom and i said read this and she read it and she said he killed her and put that body in the in in in the closet i said well now i got to put it together and figure it out so i went back and did basically everything that they did except i did it vis-a-vis search warrant and i think at the time it was like a 36-page search warrant and i interviewed different people i interviewed the weather people i interviewed the hospital people i interviewed the family everything that we could possibly do and after a short period of time maybe a couple months we were able to go before a judge and get the judge to sign the search warrant and we expected to do a forensic investigation and by that i mean we were going to take up floorboards we were going to take down ceiling tiles we were going to take portions of the ceiling and see if we could get her blood because apparently one of the witnesses say that the blood actually drained from a rear uh part of the apartment a closet and drained down and it smelled like a dead animal meat meat meat market because the girl had one of the girls that went to the local university had a father who owned a butcher shop and that's what it sounds like smell like dead meat so we we get in and we knock on the door and it's myself and i had the captain the inspector i had everybody and then i had the forensic people with all the tools to take up floorboards and ceiling and all the residual issues that impacted what we had to do again looking for forensic we never expected to find the body so you got to remember one thing in philadelphia at the time he lived in a little apartment so it was a bedroom a kitchen and a porch area that was it and a bathroom um we knock on the door we get up to the third floor second floor wherever he lived and horn into the door with a robe on beard glasses totally totally unkept yeah what what do you want i said we're here for search warrant we got to search more and more here to search your places you gotta do what you gotta do so we go in and we start looking around and we start searching and again all he had in there was books and uh back then i believe he had a computer but i'm not 100 sure but he had uh different notebooks of his saying what happened to her and her same all that was involved with him and apparently einhorn with his guru for one of the better word [ __ ] um had an affair with a lot of different women i was kind of shocked i mean i was like blown away i said how could anybody want to be seen with this guy but that's here they're there diaries is what he what he had so we go into the back porch area and i see you got a key to get into this closet and he said no you got to do what you got to do so i gently removed the hasp and the lock the hasp and the uh other piece of the mechanism and i opened the door and i started searching and i noticed that was from floor to ceiling full of boxes and as i started to take the boxes out in one box was was her identification her library card her driver's license uh all all the boxes belonged to her some some way shape or form and as we took the boxes out of the closet lo and behold on the on the floor was a steamer trunk so i went to open the steamer trunk and that was locked i said you got the key for this he said no i don't have a key for that you have to do what you have to do so once again i got the crowbar and i took the hasp into locking that mechanism off not not breaking it again and i get into the steamer trunk and in there is a top layer of was one of the local philadelphia papers the evening bulletin and it had the day the date on it that she allegedly disappeared and i took that off and i placed that gently on the side and then i noticed that there was foam packaging from sears and i took that away and then i started to see this phone all along the top layer of the and i got maybe a couple inches down and i saw a hand sticking up mummified and i said it looks like we found holly like we're standing right by the door and he said you found what you found and he walked back in so subsequently we made all the phone calls and we got the crime lab there and the lab the morgue every everybody was everybody came and they took the body out and as we're walking out walking back i can remember this is a small apartment as we're walking back in the doorway he ira einhorn grabbed a set of keys and he said these may work and lo and behold i tried the 1k and it fit the lock to the closet itself and then i tried another key and it fit the padlock to the steamer trunk so that was it and uh he get out on bail he was represented by arlen specter he got out on 40 000 bail which was unheard of which was unheard of of course in the first degree murder case that's the body found in your house so just when people hear about oh bailey formed bail reform there was a fair with 1979 former district attorney going to become a u.s senator and and he got this guy out on bond and then he subsequently disappeared for 20 some years he was gone and i was on america's most wanted i was on unsolved mysteries i was on you name it i i was it and i would have to go back and replay the the entire incident so it became a major part of my life subsequently he came back i testified he was found guilty and sentenced to life in prison and he has since died in prison and he and he he had a good network was i mean he was fleeing all over europe he was in france he was in ireland he was they said he was in spain he hooked up with a lot of people who had a lot of money and that's what what would able to survive i mean the co-owners of sigrums the whiskey that you see apparently helped support him when he was initially fleeing back in the 70s and 80s so but the unfortunate thing is the young girl holly maddox her mother and father were never ever able to see him captured i think the mother died of cancer and then the father shot himself to death committed suicide so that was kind of funky and kind of sad they never saw what had happened so what did you think i mean obviously when he first gets that out of the commissioner's office and gives it to you to read and then obviously you're there because that was on the dining room table and every night when he came home he would sit there and hunt and peck away trying to type that thing and then back to the district attorney's office back with corrections the next night so well he took you and your sister out for pizza and i was getting a cold so he says here do you want some heavy reading and i i got so spooked i ran downstairs locked the front door because it was so creepy and so real and so he comes home because we think i'm like he did it go get him he did it he's like okay and that that was part of it and then i was in work and i said you have to call me because we took the we talked to albert fillinger who was the foreigner yeah he said he she's in there he said he loved her so much nobody else could have her he killed her and he's keeping him and he says are you sure he says i'm pretty sure she's in there so when he went in he wasn't sure and he said when he started groping her out i was like so i got some questions i want to fire them at you was i well behaved and would you say i was always interested in police work when i was little you were well behaved when your father was home and you weren't very interested in anything uh i think i i think we should clarify that you were the one who made the trains run on time got us to the homework kept us clean yeah everything you say when your father comes but you were really the disciplinarian he was the hammer you were the one who sat down and then you would make the phone calls that you think we wouldn't hear when you would call them at night when you come home you got to back me up because this is the punishment that i like that was with what me and my sister was when you're punished at the top of the steps and listen to the phone call of what was going on so you never know what your kids are doing so and how many times over the years have i come to you guys asking advice this is tom asking these questions how many times over the years have i come to ask your advice i'm not really sure i give my advice whether anybody is that that is the italian indian you're exactly right you are exactly right i think he just said the other day who asked you when i was over the house i think that's what i said who asked you uh i think i i will say that um it was it was it still is a great resource to have followed you in my career you know worked in patrol worked in narcotics you know worked in homicide worked in you know special investigations and then became a police chief and now as the sheriff because i don't i think i've talked to you more through as my police career than when i was a little kid and calling you and be able to say hey i got this issue or what do you think it's because it wasn't something you had never seen it's kind of like bush 1 and push 2. you know whose father's president well my father was i can call him and talk to him well you know what i i agree 100 with what you're saying i think that our relationship has really really grown and the ability when i was working for me to call you and vice versa for you to call me uh was absolutely fabulous i can remember and you like this as i tell you i hope so remember i have the power of editing anything when you were younger and you were still a police officer you always would say my father is the police chief portland maine upper darby pennsylvania no worry now the tables are turned completely around i now introduce myself as my son is the sheriff and and it's like wow things have really changed but uh you know it's it's a kind of an interesting dynamic well i think as as you both got older you were on the same playing field you were you were equals and you played off of each other but as a kid you always treat your kid as a kid but as a professional you became succinct with each other i get still get emails and just got one recently where somebody's saying oh my god you you ran for sure after you left portland maine i'm like no that's my father he has more money than me and that's and he's older than me but i appreciate you cooking the name together uh i always tell everybody i was your brother i i mean and and you still do at times you're people who think mom's my wife but now you're gonna show your wife she's so spry and how old they think i am i know it's scary here's this is definitely a question coming out of south philly this is from tom space slice if i said it right did the discipline talk to you by the norway teen fathers at bishop newman help you in your law enforcement career they took no prisoners so that's all i could say to you and i would say to you yeah i mean they helped me in life the discipline and the way the way i was brought up and raised helped me in life so i'll flip it to you i mean obviously you uh are are you're our daughter your daughter or my sister and my my daughters all went to the same catholic high school for girls what would you say well i think the discipline i think i could have been a bad kid too if you look back but i think the discipline of catholic schools and you think oh it's uh who wants to hear that who wants to hear that and all of a sudden it all comes together and you realize that you really have to stand up and be a decent human being and and teach those values to your children whether they want them or not because nobody wants them until they kick in and then you always fall back on what you've learned as a kid and i think it's the same thing for him so my staff pulled out a picture of you uh when you were the superintendent up in upper darby and you're exiting a marked car in a trench coat and somebody wrote in daniel asked is that trench coat standard issue the the answer is no but i had that trench coat a long time i had it my entire upper darby career and probably some some in portland maine until it rips out it wasn't bulletproof either it didn't even have a line how did you allow that to happen what allow a trench coat to last that long being ripped and everything else yeah probably you could be all over that saying hey i gotta change it i never mess with that guy we're not live so somebody can't be calling the criticizer asking a question so i don't know here's it this is definitely another philly question james burton wants to know what you think about the pennsylvania legislature trying to impeach the district attorney krasner who is obviously a soros backed candidate who has helped violent crime explode up there i think that uh to impeach him is a good thing i think that i'm i'm very very conservative when it comes to law and order and i truly believe that these district attorneys that we see across the country who grant no bail cash bail no cash bail are absolutely insane and i think that uh what they're doing what they're trying to do to krasner is to be applauded and i hope they they are successful in the outcome we'll see it's going to be interesting because i know he's going to block everything he can try to block i think you should get a chance to talk about how long you guys have known one another well i was 13 and he was 15 when we met so you were in eighth grade i was going in the eighth grade and you were going i was going into eighth grade in high school so i think you should tell a funny story and i think the story of when he gets punished and his brother his middle brother has to take you to the dance so i have this eighth grade dance coming up and he's going to take me to the dance and he gets punished for something and he can't take me so my mother calls his mother and she says what are we going to do can't your husband change his mind no he he just he can't do it he can't do it so my mother-in-law being so gracious says but you know what i'll ask my other son to take her and i said my brother-in-law i was very close to if they said please like in the background no mom no please so mark took me to the dance but he had all these you know don't hold her hand don't kiss her well mark didn't dance either so but we got there and i got dumped and he was outside trying to pick up chicks that was that and smoke cigarettes that was that was that that was that story but mark and i were close and and as you would learn years later that his dad my grandfather walt with that navy there was no deviating from the rules well here's the thing he couldn't take me to the dance he was punished for whatever he did but he could play baseball that night i felt slightly i kind of remember those kind of punishments being felt to me where you're you're you're grounded but you got a game tonight okay you can go out and play but you got to come right home and do what and do whatever nobody consulted me about that i would have said no the other one we have to hear is the record that both of you what do you think the most important thing you've learned along the way that you would tell your younger self the lesson obviously as we get older and look back and say man i would have told myself not to i don't know maybe not to worry so much be so stressed out all the time worrying about doing a good job being a good mother being the best i could be working a job trying to be good at that i would think don't be so hard on yourself take a step back and just try to go with the flow uh having been putting facebook time out would you would you give anybody advice to who has been put in facebook timeout they were not to get put into pinpoint people as long as it's the truth my mother said you could speak you can say anything you want as long as it's the truth bam there you go that's it the third the first one the social media i don't do social media and i'd say that to your mother i said when i was active in police work i had facebook uh i had twitter i you name it i had it and it was all successful but once i retired i i shut everything down i just shut it down so i rely on you to to do that with respect to uh me talking about you as a person i think the most important thing is respect and love period that's uh that's that's what i would say and i think that's a pretty good pretty good segue for this next-to-last question when you talk about respect and love why don't you tell the tattoo story of how you came home now you had to frame the context for them that grandpa spent 25 years in the navy been around the world and came on with no tattoos and grandmom had no tattoo this would have been in the 60s so there was no air conditioning in the house and we lived in a row home and i was brought up very very strict and when my father was home it was even more strict because he ran he ran the house like a submarine so i had just graduated high school so it had to be 1961. and a bunch of us went over to camp we were all living in south philadelphia and we went over to camden new jersey sailor eddie's tattoo power and sailor eddies and again back in the 60s you didn't have the tattoos that you have along here so uh we all got a tattoo there had to be like probably eight of us and everyone got a tattoo and one guy got a duck on one arm hey you and then duck on the other arm who me i wound up getting a tattoo and it says get them up so i said i don't know why i did what i did i don't know why did i go home my father's gonna kill me so we all come back from sailor eddie's and we're all standing around the corner and who's got tattoos all over wherever and um so we break up and we all go our separate way so i go home and i had to be home at 10 30 and i get home and again no air conditioning nothing so i put on a long sleeve shirt and i climb into bed my two brothers were in the next room and it got so hot because again there was no air conditioner with no fans there was nothing and it got so hot that i took the shirt off and threw it on the on the ground and my father comes up at seven o'clock and he wakes us up at seven o'clock seven a.m and as he comes up the stairs i said oh [ __ ] it's too late now he's already seen it so he comes over to my arm and he looks at my arm and he takes the bandage up there i don't know if they still do it but they put a bandage over and i he goes down and he goes down stairs and i hear him say to my mother that son of a [ __ ] went and got a tattoo i spent my entire career my entire life every all over the world never got a tattoo never saw that dude he's got a tattoo oh my god my mother says oh my god i hope it doesn't say mom and it's just get them up and a picture of a file of a boxer so my father comes upstairs and says he said he's got me i'm bad wakes me up gets up he said get up stay now stand up he said what's that on your arm i said that too i said who who's it depict i said well it's a tattoo of a fighter and it says get him are you a boxer you tough guy he said no i'm not he said fight me i said dad i don't want to fight you you know i'm not going to fight you with that he hits me with a right hook knocks me down i get up he said come on come on fight fight let's see let's see let's see what you got i said no i'm not fighting you so he he leaves and of course i get thrown out i get thrown out of the house i sleep in her basement for i don't know a week a week i was thrown out i was barred from ever coming back to the house and then finally my mother was able to convince my father to let me in but so the day he died i never allowed him to see the tattoo i always covered myself up i always put a long sleeve shirt on or i put some type of shirt on and i was always covered up i never ever let him see the tattoo because he saw that that together he would get furious and i said that was it so that was my tattoo story so the last question that we've gotten and it's it's obviously a lot of people to know you guys is how are you guys making out since beth had passed away it's it's almost eight months now and you know obviously it was a short brutal fight with als and how are you guys doing i'll i'll say this i would never wish als on my worst enemy wouldn't wish you know my worst enemy losing our daughter was very very hard and it's still hard still hard so um that's all i can say about that and obviously it's been a a you know interesting way things have shaped out obviously beth knew this was coming and she did make sure that as much time as she could spend with you guys and her children she left heartfelt messages for them especially when kyle her younger son graduated from high school he's now at clemson first semester there and kaylee is still in south carolina uh working there and uh i think it's kind of pretty cool in a way that their beth is is buried in the church that they go to so every sunday when they go to church their mom is right there not that far from the house so for the folks that ask their there's your answer because i've had people ask how your parents are doing since your sister passed away and uh you know it's once they were four now there are three it's the same thing with beth's family once there were four now there's there's three so i think the hardest part is to see her deteriorate like that being so full of life and not being able to do anything about it but she was so strong she just never complained and i just think sometimes when i get up i hope i can be as strong as she is or sometimes i get up and think oh that was a little mistake i'm going to give her a call and it's it's been long enough but it still it doesn't leave you and i think we were given a great gift in the fact that we got to spend that last day with her her friends who came by the house i mean there was a commotion in the house the kids were playing games and you know and obviously you guys were there in the morning so so that will you guys got a final word any advice anything you want to say i mean it wasn't that bad right yeah no andrew wanted to have a cocktail in front of you and i see he says you know they drink veal manhattans or the crown royal manhattans uh i think we'll get hammered if we do that on hammer drinking wise i think the audience will advertise well you better make it clear that was fine thank you guys so that will conclude episode three of chit chat i hope that you enjoyed us let us know how you're doing we're working on future topics like i said before anything that affects volusia county uh the sports world the political world so thanks for joining in may god bless you and god continue to bless this great country [Music] you