Katherine magbanua is facing a first-degree murder charge for the slaying of Professor Dan marel police say Marquel was gunned down in his Tallahassee driveway in 2014 as part of an elaborate murder For Hire plot orchestrated by the wealthy family of his exwife Wendy adelen the motive for the alleged hit officials believe the adelon were desperate for Wendy and her two children to move closer to them in South Florida and Dan marel was standing in the way trials for the two alleged Hitmen are scheduled to start in the coming weeks both have pleaded not guilty but we've learned that authorities are trying desperately to flip them hoping they'll testify against the adal cense this video contains an interview of Katherine magana who helped her boyfriend orchestrate a murder in 2013 Katherine maguana was a single mother struggling to make ends meet she had recently broken up with the father of her children sigfredo Garcia during the summer she found work at a local dental office where she met Charlie Alderson the son of a well-to-do family in the dental business within months the two began dating and Alison soon began to confide that his sister Wendy Adon was having problems with her ex-husband Dan Markle Charlie Adon had always hated his brother-in-law and when the divorce became hostile he no longer felt he had to restrain himself for his sister's sake Wendy Adon and Dan marquel's main fight was over the custody of their two young boys and the Adon family was strongly opposed to Marquel having any rights at the urging of his mother Donna adson Charlie began to look for someone to take care of the problem this person turned out to be sigfredo Garcia and adelon coordinated his plans through maguana who had reached out to Garcia joining Garcia was Luis Rivera a longtime friend who was often at Garcia's side on the morning of July 18th 2014 Garcia and Rivera drove by marquel's home and shot him in his driveway after several trips to learn his schedule marel later died at the hospital the adson family was immediately suspected but no arrests were made until 2016 okay morning I guess you knew we were coming you thought it Chris okay um this is this is a camera yes yeah we're doing it for all of our safy like we just we don't want it to be alleged that we came in here talking to you so from the beginning we're just recording this whole thing with you um so this came back from Chris yesterday he's signed the bottom of it um if you just want to look at it review it we'll have you sign it as well I think this is the one that like T yeah yeah it's the same thing yeah so if you just want to sign the bottom of it second page today's the 10th or 11th 11th okay so here's what I'll tell you obviously things are changed and we're here without your attorneys but that's you guys had the conversations and we all talked as well I I kind of feel like it's best and easiest to just let you tell us how we got here that's the thing that's like wait like how I got to this point well start at the beginning you know who hell are any you know I guess we can do that so we got Pat sford with the FBI Sherry Bennett with CPD and I'm Jason with the state attorney's office which you and I have met a few times um and yeah if letting you kind of tell us how we live here is the best way to start and we'll ask questions don't get me wrong we will ask you stuff but yeah this is this is what I was afraid of like just with everything that's been happening and like obviously getting at and then it's just I've been like you know like with my guard the whole time and then like all of a sudden it's like I don't want to walk into this room and then it's just like me just talk like I know I can't everything is well let's start up like this okay how did you meet Charlie start that um I really [Applause] diving way to break the eyes right um just before like like I know like obviously you know I'm going through two trials and everything like what would this be all public now like this eventually eventually it will be we're doing this because obviously with the publicity of the trial and the amount of you know you guys didn't do this you guys talk to her before you turned the camera on we're not going to have we just don't we don't want to have any of those games played we would rather have everything you know recorded and documented so there isn't you guys sat down with Katie and told her what she needed to tell you mag B is concerned about keeping some of the details private but that is no longer an option the case has gained too much public attention for secrets and everything is going to come out no okay do that yeah like my attorneys not here so this like right exactly so this is my first time sitting down you know talk to you so we want everything you know recorded so there's no question about like it did last time people were're making allegations that we fed people and things like that we're on enough up this is is not you know this way been we're not here to trick you trick you be you like this is this is different got to this point Bas this is your side of the story you tell us the truth of what happened and we'll ask questions we need yeah let's do this for when you raise your right hand you swear to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing about the truth yes all right now we got that and all the confusion um yeah I mean really it's best to start with I think how you met Charlie would be the best way to start and then we can probably sequentially you know work a timeline out from there okay um well I was working in Sophie dental and then he's like one of the specialist that came in so then from there he's you know like we get the phone numbers from the doctors from what I remember and then we put it on our cell phone so that whenever scheduling purposes we you know we can contact or text the Charlie Adon was a dentist who got his start in his family's practice he was the link between the family and the other conspirators who were involved in markel's murder the any of the doctors any of the dentist okay so I went through there it just started texting and then yeah you started ding obviously yeah how long I guess how long did that progression take from the texting to the dating like how did it evolve like from being well this is like all the way from 2013 I believe so um well yeah he was like persistent he was just persistent about like and I told him I was like I have kids like I don't really have time I don't have a babysitter I don't have like a chance to just go up and about like I don't have that type of Freedom like so little by little he was just you know trying to oh come on let's hang out and then um like one day like I just went over to his remember time frame I guess would be late 2013 early 2014 yeah that was yeah 2013 and you got it kind of grew from there and became more of a more of a dating relationship I guess yeah how long would you say you two dated um like I said like you know I always said that we never had like he's my boyfriend I'm his girlfriend's I think uh probably from 2013 to 20 14 15 we yeah like we've stayed friends the whole time um sorry you know it's just like not I haven't spoken any but you don't and that's what we really I know we're seeing over here on the side it's intimidating like this is kind of a and I'm sure that's not helping the matter yeah um but just trying to talk with us just literally just just sit there and talk with us it out I mean yeah yeah maybe we can move it out over close to the camera or the phone so it's not like straight in your face I don't know um but just try to block it out and just let's let's talk this through so you guys started dating um we come what comes to your mind I I what I don't want to do is feed it to you you know reiterate it for us let's just talk about what he what problems did he talk to you about did he did he talk to you about his problems and issues and what led and this is what I was like scared of like you know um from the from the information that I got from the trial and then obviously you know I go back in my bunk and I'm like trying to think back like you it's like it's all perception that's why I was like so irritated and frustrated because as I'm seeing things being revealed you know I'm thinking back at the time and I'm just like trying to put things together like okay was this happening when this was happening and then it's like all getting jumbled in my head okay and I don't want to give any that's fine you're worried about your timelines you're worri don't worry about that we can work timelines out timelines out with some other information that we have throughout this case there's a lot like you saw there's a whole lot of EV in this case yes if you can give us the events that occurred we can work out the timeline so if you remember a conversation Charlie having with you I'll work on the timeline of when that occurred tell us what conversation you I don't want to say like I don't want to say the wrong thing either I make sure that you know just the timeline is not the most important issue at this point for now the detectives are more interested in the subject of the conversations the biggest thing is because you keep thinking about everything you saw on trial take that out we want to go by just by your memory I I know it's hard we're going by just your memory anything in trial like he's saying the timelines things that we have that we can we can see how that fits in and and figure that out later we're going to want to go from your memory and what you were thinking and your experience your personal experience with this how it progressed in that stance not taking all the stuff that you saw on trial all the things that now make you think of it differently you want to know about how how you thought about it at the time that it happened and how it progressed that way in your own experience not by all the stuff you saw so that should make it easier she just work on that and then we can worry about the timeline afterwards let's just get through the how you your experience of it when it was happening if you were telling us the truth and what you remember Katie before any of this nonsense yes that's all we're looking for okay we will ask the questions to clarify things you tell us what you remember that led up to this situation okay okay so basically I mean like what led up to the situation um when I was talking to Chris I was like you just like things that are popping up as as it went and a particular day that I was thinking about was Halloween in um in Lincoln Road when he did mention but I don't I I don't want to quote anything and I don't want to say anything wrong like I said and I just remember him like that's the thing it's like as he's saying things and like you all know that Charlie talks a lot so he's saying things and it's just we're going in circles I'm not like in invested into the conversation like how he's thinking of the conversation I'm just you know like going basically with the flow so um I remember him that he did mention something about I don't know if his sister was going through through it or his sister was having a hard time with somebody he never mention Charlie's sister is Wendy Adon merel's ex-wife at the time they were going through a bitter divorce I recently released another highly intense video on my patreon an explosive altercation between two cops where tension escalated so quickly resulting in a drawn gun and a devastating gunshot in a mere 26 seconds witness the events unfold as two officers engage in a fight that turns deadly watch this video and more at patreon.com FL stranger stories plus um D marel didn't tell me any names or anything but that was a spe like particular day I guess that I thought back and I didn't even really think about it until like when all of it was like over and I was like Chris I don't like I don't know why it's like coming to me now like I've said like I blocked off a lot of things I don't remember things like you can see in my second trial I was foggy with everything like and and those are those are obstacles will all over we got to overcome them just like you do I understand you testified and you said things and we'll deal with it we understand um and that's Chris will sit down with you I'm sure and you know and that will come but just like you just did you had a conversation was around Halloween what's Lincoln Road that in Lincoln Road that's in South Beach so there's like a Halloween like party where they block off like the whole like section kind of thing yeah but it's like a bunch of like it's outside you know they always host that event and I remember when I in a parking lot or like it was like an outside parking lot and that's the first time he's mentioned it and mind you this was 2013 this is like in the beginning so I didn't think much of it like this is just literally met him like this is one of probably uh an event that I can only pinpoint it because it was a specific like a particular event I'm sorry underst understand but you don't specifically what he said you don't remember he just mentioned saying his sister was going through something and you didn't really you didn't pay attention to it yeah okay so that's October end of October 1 of November of 2013 we're still working for Sophie Dental I'm assume yes fairly new in Sophie Dent so go from there there I don't know what happened or like in between you know we started hanging out more I'm pretty sure every single time like you know he'd either mention not mention about his sister but maybe just like family issues but like not specifically like it's always his sister or whatever like he never really went forth with that okay so that was like towards the beginning and I could just kind of remember I know I spent New Years with him and then from so like that's already like towards the end of 2013 and then what about after that what how did it progress from there um like I said I don't know like whenever he would mention anything about it maybe every single time that we just you know like we'd hang out I don't know specific dates like I said but all of that's been like a blur to me so when you're saying he's mention is it like he mentioned his frustrations with it or he just kind of just talking yeah he's kind of just like talking like you know like we hanging out watching TV you um or like I can kind of tell like you know his uh like if his mom is calling and he's you know like like they're going through like family issues he never really told me specifically anything but you know you kind of like get the phone and you walk away like or that was my mom like talking to me whatever like she's stressed out my dad's stressed out stuff like that nothing particular that I can remember so fast forward I guess that's January early the year 2014 so obviously Dan Mar was murdered in July of 2014 um as you saw in trial Garcia and Rivera made a trip up in June what can you tell us about that that like I I don't even remember I mean obviously like like you're telling me to like remember from what I remember not from what I remember from trial I learned a lot of things from The Trial that's why it's so hard and I want to say the right you know not to say the right thing but like remember from how I remembered you know my days but like my days are consumed with like taking care of my kids and just you know like me going through it with a fro like you guys you know all heard all the conversations and everything like just the back and for what led to the two of them making that trip to T okay so when I was um this is like the hard part because that's the part that I've never spoken of and from what I just remember I don't know the specific day but I do know that Charlie had given a paper in an envelope but he stuck it inside like I had like a diaper bag that I used to use for Kaye but I kind of used that as like a we Stander bag and he put it in there now he's probably been talking about like oh you know like I need somebody to you know get beat up or whatever that's why I'm saying like from him something happening to her husband to like obviously murder that's like two different extremes and so you're saying leading up to him putting on the diaper bag he was talking about want to find somebody to beat beat him up like he's you know little by little I think he was feeding stuff in my head that he needed this to be done but me like I was like okay you know like maguana is trying to see if she can put the responsibility for her actions on Charlie but she is involved too deeply for that to work I know in hindsight I should have like I said that's why I beat myself up a lot because you know like I'm like you know I was stupid like I wasn't but that's not my frame was at that time so it was kind of hard for me and and that's what kind of like I'm kind of scared of because it's like are they going to understand this because what I was going through a lot like mentally with s Fredo too was you know a lot of like fighting and so it's like I found comfort in Charlie because obviously he was the good time and he was the one you know that it's like when I'm with him it wasn't stressful but it led to my whole life being turned upside down well let's talk about this real quick um I know you took the stand like we talked about a while ago and you got on the stand and you said you didn't remember things that's in the past yeah we're not worried about what you said on the stand we're starting clean here this is a new clean break okay I'm sorry I know you're fine you're fine just it's okay it's okay yeah just listen to me it's you're you're already where you are okay whatever you tell us now if you lied about something if you weren't truthful about something it doesn't matter at this point you're not going to get in more trouble for it okay saying so Now's the Time to be totally truthful with us it's just you know to totally clean tell the whole truth all the way through from the beginning because Charlie didn't just slip a letter in without you talking about sigfredo and getting to that point that's what we're talking about tell us how you got to that point I understand you're not remember time frames and things like that and and Charlie may have done this and done that and kind of LED you to that but how did that H you know what kind of conversations did you have about sedo yeah with him and and and how did it time it's like I felt as if Charlie kept planting this seed in my head obviously and now I don't know if like he knew of s Fredo like he probably knew of s Fredo from what you know like me vening and saying like you know like he's he's giving me a hard time like in that point but far from like what like I mean like I know that he's probably know that he's gotten in trouble like in the past buto like that we've been together like we you know like I try to keep them on the narrow and stay away from trouble and you know like with like family life so that's what like he I mean this is through time that he's probably just been saying things and I'm just like agreeing with it like again I beat myself up for it because it's like I wasn't paying attention to like things like I was being nonchalant about it you know and just being like okay okay and and like you know kind of just then when I'm with Fredo I'm like relaying stuff to him but them really not knowing you know like obviously even with conversations it's like I never said like oh I'm talking to Toto or like with him he doesn't want to hear that I'm talking with Charlie but at the same time it's like they both know who I'm talking about okay or they know so what kind of stuff are you relaying right without magb Charlie would have never connected with Garcia and Rivera he also would not have known that they would be willing to commit murder without maguana coordinating all the details through each other yeah that's where it gets a little blurry because that's through time that we're just right you don't have to say specifics just give us a roundabout of summary of what the conversations were about because I understand you're not going to remember exactly what you said or exactly what they said but you know the the context of the conversation that you had that led up to this everything that led up like let me you an example so he stuck the S yeah in your bag MH how did you know what I like it had information about how but how did you know what to do with it because he's been like kind of mentioning you know like oh I need this I need somebody to take care of this and you know I know like obviously I'm going to say Fredo about it but then and as I'm relating too I'm not saying like I don't really know specifics that's why so what are you relating too yeah you just said I need someone to take care of this I know it's hard to talk about but we we know what you're talking about but we need you to talk about it it's it's going to be I know it's hard to say what is he saying this is I need somebody to take care of this what is this oh the problem with when these I mean like that's I he I don't think he ever mentioned about her husband or whatever but just somebody that's been like I'm fine I I I you're fine with that that you didn't know that Dan Marquel was Wendy's husband yes fine cool what did he tell you though what did he say move on we good with that yes I that is totally I understand that you they didn't have the same last name most husband and wies you would think so what was he telling you exactly it is hard to believe that maguana wasn't aware of the connection and didn't take more of an interest in the person she was helping to murder on the other hand she may have been willing to take the money without asking too many questions that he needed somebody to go up to like last saying I don't want to say the wrong thing um we can understand if you're summarizing your sum we don't expect you to remember exact conversations but you know the context which is the actual meat of what the conversation was about that's what we need from you like the actual mean what did he say to you basically just in general that that he need somebody to get hurt but like not to get to that point for my understanding was not to get killed but to maybe like I don't know if like rough up or beat up or whatever okay at that point okay so I um but that's what I'm saying like I just little by little maybe he's like feeding things in my head but I can't remember those specifics and I Okay so You're reallying Now to S Freo so what are you reallying to S Freo and I know you're not saying Charlie wants me you're just talking to S fro about a friend that has his problem what's the problem you're telling right just that like somebody like um I'm sorry like I just I what you're trying to say right and we know what you're trying to say but we need you to say it we can't say it for you yeah here here's where I think you are it's hard for you to say right less it's more hard for you to say than less of you don't know what to to say I think this is where this agreement that signed into this is where you have to clear your conscious this is where you just just say what you're trying to say get it out we can talk about it we're going to talk to Chris about this obviously there's a lot of conversations to be had after this meeting that we're having today a lot of conversations no not with you with you between the prosecutors between us and there's just a lot that has to go on after this so just just say just come out with what you're talking so Charlie's giving you something and you're giving Garcia something what what is it what's the agreement what was Charlie something yeah something needed to be taken care of for him for for d h okay and what was Charlie getting getting in return was he do anything in return what was he willing to do if well yeah like he would have uh I like the MoneyWise obvious like you know like they would be like Charlie's like oh they're going to be taken care of that they're going to be taken care of did he ever give you a number what's the number no he didn't give me the number he didn't give me a specific number for it he said go do this and I'll just give I'll take care of you he didn't say how much or anything no not to me like that's what I'm saying it's like now like you know how you guys were talking about like the $100,000 or whatever like he never said that amount to me like I just know that they're going to be taken care of like he was assuring me that they're going to be taken care of obviously that's nothing to do you know like I that's what I'm saying like I don't have those facts okay for how did he know who was going to take care of every he needed to take care of I mean I I figured he knew that I was like going to go to somebody that I trusted anday that to S Fredo okay so he knew I just don't I that's what I'm I don't know that if he knew s Fredo like that did you tell him it was s Fredo though no I never mentioned was that's but you told him you would have it taken care of he used it tell him by yeah okay sorry I know well the problem is we I just don't want to go the roundabout and roundabout like you we're trying to get directly to it and that's what we and you can help us with that as well just just say it sometimes just let it go you know um the envelope that was in the bag what was it I never looked at it he told me do not touch it do not open it that he had um he would as time went like you know I I think back about the things that he's saying and then he's like oh like don't I never keep money in my house and why is he telling me that like now in my head I'm like okay is he telling me that so that he won't get robbed like it won't turn around that he would well yeah like I'm saying like I figured this out later on um you know he did have that uh uh that safe in his house but he'd always be like I don't keep money in that or um I never saw any you know like he's opened it before but I've never like looked inside and see anything inside um he when he on that paper which I felt like that had all the information and obviously I had given that to se Fredo but when I gave it to se Fredo like I I never like it was in my bag and then I had told s Fredo like oh like the paper's there like and he never showed it to me he took it and then he left like and this would have been prior to the trip they made up in June yes okay yeah I don't know had given me that paper did he that's fine did he ever did fro ever tell you what was written on no okay and that's like the information that I wish I had because that's why so head don't make it up don't fill in a gap that you don't know the answer to I just want to confirm one thing on this so you told Charlie you would have it taken care of so Charlie didn't know you were going to S fro but he probably assumed is what you're saying yes okay but you didn't you didn't tell SFO it's from Charlie and you didn't tell Charlie you're going to seeo you just told him that you would have it taken care of yes understood what you saying so obviously you told him that you had some they could do this or he wouldn't just give it to you say hey just how that that's what saying like through time you know he keeps telling me there's that something needed to get taken care of obviously he's never said like oh that somebody needed to get killed or anything he never said that okay magana keeps insisting that she doesn't know what Charlie had planned saying that she knew something was going to happen but she didn't know exactly what the setup was too elaborate to be a simple scare tactic before we move forward I want to extend my thanks for watching this video today has no sponsor so if you're enjoying it subscribing helps the channel grow you can also check out my second Channel stranger crimes after this video um but he it's like okay through time he's like feeding to me oh this needs to be taken care of this needs to be taken care of and then one night that I had slept over there he had put that in my face like do not open it Katie like do not touch it even when I put it inside in the envelope like I you like he's telling me things that he did you know like I used gloves I didn't printed in my computer like he's telling me he's like forewarning me like don't even think like I guess he didn't think that you know like he he didn't want me to like obviously blackma home or something maybe after or at what point did you tell him you had somebody that can take care of this if he's feeding you this information for him to turn this out and take this Step at some point you had to tell him you have to take care of what did you tell him to that was like going back again that day that he had asked me um in Halloween in the par I was like oh okay you know you know obviously the first thing in my head was like oh if somebody need to get beat up whatever like FR you know like that's money for him soe when you told him the one did I how did I tell how did you tell him that you had somebody you said Halloween is that when you told him you had somebody that could do it or to Charlie yes yeah probably suggested I'm like okay yeah I know somebody okay so you're saying that was at the Halloween thing yes okay so that's back in October stuck yeah it stuck out to me that's that's what that's I was trying to get the clarification on so you told him you had somebody you just didn't tell him who yes and you just left it at yes and you didn't ask him how much it would he could pay how he could take care of any of that he just always what he's always told me like Oh They'll be taken care of didn't give me an amount didn't tell me so what did you tell fro to get him to do it like I said I don't know how I told s Fredo probably told him like Hey like you know you can make some type of money if you take care of this for somebody else he's like okay but you didn't tell him how much no I don't I didn't knowbly never gave you amount or anything no he just he you yeah I guess stupidly yeah I figured they can like yeah like it's like I said like you got like I you know I'm the middle person obviously I see everything now like yeah like it was going through me but I know I know you look back now and you feel I'm like you feel like I told that's what I told T I was like listen like I was manipulated I was used I was you know and it's like and I feel stupid because it's like you guys are even like I know like even through trial like you guys it's like yeah when and not being truthful and that like when I see everything it's like of course everybody's just looking at me like I'm a part of this whole thing and you it's it's hard for me to like it took time like you guys didn't know what I was going through in jail you know even with family wise you know you met my brother like it's how do you just go about okay I had this whole part in this whole situation like even conversations with like that's what I was upset too with ad do V because it's once you see it in a different way you're just and then you sit back and you're like I don't remember like a lot of the things my brain has literally and I wish like I was I wish you guys could just put something in my head and just extract all this information but I can't time frame which I know you guys can guide me with but it's like don't know what was said I don't know how it went about I just know like what you know certain things and then from there like I'll probably get back in in the dorm and then I mean like when I was in county and I'll be like oh my God like this happened or this happened and then after that it's like I push it away I've suppressed so much of like the whole situation and I don't want to waste everybody's time I know we got to this you're not wasting our time at all magana switches her story up a little by saying that she has repressed a lot of what happened this contradicts her earlier claims of not knowing what was going to happen I just I want an end to this already well this is this is a way to the end but like we said you you got to be totally honest with us you got to be truthful I mean that's that's all we're asking you to do to the best of your memory give us everything you can you know I know it's hard to talk about I know you don't want to admit it but embarrassing it's not just it's not that it's just my brain like I don't know how to explain my brain has like blocked a lot of things so I like even and then I second guess myself and I thought like that the last thing I want is obviously this I already know how this goes and I to not want to say something that did not happen or did not occur and that's what I'm afraid of I like I don't well that's what we explain to you we don't expect you to remember exact verb on conversation word for word what you said or what some if you know the context of the conversation which is like what this conversation was about yeah you know what the conversation was about with you and Charlie you know what the trick or thing the Halloween thing that you that's when you gave Charlie after he's been venting to you and venting to you you gave him the thumbs up like yes I got someone who could take care of well that's the first time that he's like kind of mentioned something mentioned you try to get it taken care of yeah but he had been telling you and feeding you up to that about how he's frustrated with his sister's stuff well yeah like little bits and pieces like that and then that was like something that stuck out and then from there on all that time frame that's why I just don't even know like what happened in between but like I said I was living my life as a mother taking care of my kids like yeah I should have paid attention you know you don't think I beat myself up every day thinking about like I should have paid attention I should have taken this seriously but in my head at that time it wasn't like contract you're thinking someone just going to get beat up yes like somebody to get hurt obviously that's like one thing that okay you know s fro like would do I mean like we were financially like not like he was doing his own thing and God knows what like I don't know I don't even know why it went to him to I don't even know why this whole thing like literally like occurred well let me ask you this it just snowballed so you know and obviously the trial came out and it was mentioned I don't know how many times Charlie made the comment to several people through throughout the years that you know tried hiring a Hitman but a TV was cheaper yeah had he ever made a comment like that to you has he mentioned that yeah about the I I don't to you specifically not not that you remember from trial but did you and he ever have a conversation like that about hiring somebody yeah like maybe he's joked about it yeah yeah I'm pretty sure yeah like he's joked about it but it's like we're not even yeah I'm pretty sure he's joked about it about yeah he's very he's very free with what he says you know and I never take you know I never take sometimes like I said like I literally like block it off okay so they made a trip up here in June yeah did you all receive any money from Charlie for that trip for when they like to help pay for the rental car or anything I've had I mean like I'm trying to think whenever okay so he got s Fred got that paper like I said he's never told me anything about it obviously there has to have been information in there obvious they don't either one of them don't want me to know and I don't want to know I didn't want to know it so and you told C it was in there to get it yeah to get it like just get it off the bag like I think he came over and then he probably went to the apartment saw the kids and I was like oh I have a pay for you in the bag and then I just remember him stuffing in his shorts and and then walking out okay and we never spoke about it again okay he never told I never asked him like oh what was on that or whatever nothing like we didn't have a conversation about it okay so and then like I don't know when SEO like leaves I don't know like what his you know we'd be good and then I don't know what's going on with him and I don't want to know what's going on with him you know so I kind of like block that out too because when I I was with Charlie then obvious and just like that too like with conversations it's not like I'm there like planning things or whatever it's just whenever I'm not with one I'm talking to the other it's not nothing specific or anything that has to do with what happened it's just I'm not I don't talk to each other if like they're right next to me right so obviously you guys weren't financially stable yeah renting a car to drive this yeah how did that happen um I think um that Charlie has given me money like oh like I probably tell him like Hey I need I need some money so that like Charlie has given her money numerous times usually cash so it could not be traced and I would always just say like these people whatever but now I'm thinking about likeing you it was you know SI Fred the whole time so um yeah probably like asking ask him for give you all the money to pay for the real car yeah like he give it to me and then I give it to S Fredo I guess like so that he can go about wherever he needed to go but I didn't know about the tah like like you know where they were going you just knew the problem that Charlie had they were going to handle and they needed money to deal with it yes how did you know about did he need a rental car what Dido say to you getting a rental car did how do you know it wasn't he has he has a Miami how do you know what the problem wasn't in Miami then how did you know he needed a rental car that he had to go travel somewhere yes I I don't know like when I didn't know anything about like the Tallahasse thing but I guess he had to go somewhere wasn't that it wasn't going to be local okay so you tell you I need money for this and say I need a I need money for a car I need you to get money from how did you know to go to Charlie and ask for the money that he needed is what he's trying to get well because from the whole thing with the paper but he didn't tell me what was on it whatever but I figured like he needed a scope someplace El so if he's going to go somewhere then he needs a car super to do that you're trying to answer for Garcia answer for you Garcia came to you and asked for did he come to you and ask for money did he come to you and say hey I need money hey don't what Garcia was doing is just totally different how did it go from you back to Charlie back to Garcia how did that I mean I would assume that that's what s fro told me he's like telling me like oh I need money like to go sculpt this place out so you needed like vehicle do you remember having conversations with Garcia about that type of stuff that hey I need money for a rent car do you remember having those conversations with him that he need money yeah for rent I guess so yeah yeah and then I would just relay it back to like Charlie like I need I need money yeah that's all asking I know it sounds like such a simple thing but it's like I'm I guess I'm just my brain CU it could have been in Miami right yeah I guess I I I mean I never assumed that it was going to be in maybe that was just my assumption that it wasn't anywhere local yeah you know obviously if he's needing money like what do you need money for I'm not going to ask me specifics okay you you get a car you need you know a place to stay you need you know you need to rent somewhere so I asking you questions just try to refresh your memory so you can bring up details about what you remember okay so we're not trying to trick you or get you off track we're just trying to ref I'm trying to recall back to of like how it even like occurred or what you know what was happening so at what point how did Charley get the money to you did he just meet you and give you cash I mean I was hanging out with him so it would be like yeah he g00 yeah like and obviously he knew what it was was for like in not like I'm just like I didn't think about it like you know like I wasn't there like oh okay like this is for this and that like that wasn't as the go between maguana knew more than she is admitting to the detectives Charlie would not have continued to give money without knowing exactly what it was for and if he had been in contact with Garcia himself he wouldn't have needed maguana at all I'm just okay like I was just okay with I was just doing it you know okay you need the money okay I don't want to know what for I don't know like obviously now I know the rental and all that stuff but it's like I didn't know get the money do whatever you need to do whatever and then I would get it from one hand to another okay all right at that point did you know Le was involved no that whole thing yeah with ls was all I okay I know we're gonna be jumping into a lot of things and I I'm not frustrating you I feel you're not frustrating us no it's I'm watching the process in your head and it's like I talk with my hands I'm getting nervous like it's fine it's fine go ahead um because I know like my brain is like jumping from one place to another the whole thing with with Louis is obviously like and that's how SEO functions too he never tells me you think he's going to tell doesn't tell me things this is what I want you to you guys to understand if FR does not tell me things he tries to keep me away from a lot of things a lot of things upset me through the trial that I found out that it's like it hurts for me to know because this is the father of my children you know like I'm not like he's not a bad person I know it sounds bad but it's like he's not he's not this person and granted I want to him obviously stupid mistake for even me to be involved in any of this but when when the whole thing when the whole I guess the bump or whatever and like like the weird phone calls and Charlie telling me this thing or whatever little by little I kind of like and then the whole louw thing and that's what like clicked my head I was like Lou like T like T and like you know they always mistake their names and then I'm just like like again me and S Fredo we never had a chance to like talk like he doesn't like I and I've asked that you I've asked plenty of time like T why can't why can't we be in a room with you know sred like I need to know these things like I can't answer these questions I know it's kind of just like I know to protect like you know like from both sides or whatever but I needed to see him face to face I needed that like like now it's like we've been so separated so far it's like I don't even know see the problem is we don't want you talking about what s Fredo told you after the fact we want you telling us what you know leading up to all this and during all of this you were with you were with s Fredo you were with you were part of a lot of these conversations yes and that's what we want to hear from you is what those conversations were and how they went along I mean at one point you did know Lewis was involved because you C tried calling Lewis to get a hold of s Fredo right after the murder you had his old number yeah you called his old number so somehow you did know that he was with Lewis that's why you tried to call leou but I never knew like I really honestly never knew that he would like that l i mean obviously like now I think about it like they're always together like but at that time I'm trying to reach sigfredo I don't know what made me like call him or him call me or I'm just trying to reach him I'm trying to get to him yeah and he's the only one you tried to call at that time until you got a hold of Ortiz but anyway before that trip you knew that he was going with him on that Tri trip no I never knew that he was going how did you to maybe not the first trip but the second trip you knew he was there right cuz you were talking to him during that second trip right talking talking to S fro yeah but he never told me that he was with Louis like he never he never explain that he never he never told me that he was with Louis because even with the whole thing with the whole bump and everything like that started coming out and that's why I was like why does it seem like to me Fredo was you know like something was going on with Louis like he was almost kind of like like oh let me find out let me find out like what is some are somebody talking to to LS or is he like talking to you know like police or whatever about something because why is his name coming up but he never told me anything that he was with Louis like I know like that's one thing that I know like I never knew cuz I didn't know that till later on okay and I know that I called him but it's like I don't know what made me call him that day or if I had seen him beforehand or okay so so in June the timing of the call is too convenient to be a coincidence but the detectives are willing to let that point slide for now they made a trip up and nothing happened did you know did they was there any conversation after the June trip with you and Garcia about nothing happening was there a conversation after that yeah not that I could Rec maybe because obviously it didn't and so I'm wondering what triggered them going back again in July and how did they fund that too so obviously something had to go back and forth to Charlie to know that there's going to be a second trip so what tell us about it tell us what you I just I can't okay because okay June you said that they went yeah obviously they went or they went or just one I don't like both yeah they both went in June and they both came back and then actually I think you I think Wendy came down to Miami and that's when you all went to the beach that was around June M but I have never spoken to Wendy about anything like that was the next question yeah like I've never I've never spoken to Wendy about you tell us does Wendy know did Wendy know about this did Wendy know what was going on here did she know from that time I mean I think they kept it like I think Charlie's always said that my family doesn't know anything like or when he doesn't know anything so at at some point I mean I I figured knows nothing yes okay I mean see this is where it gets difficult because it's like I you know like with the okay I don't even know how to explain it but it's it like it's I don't know I don't know like I just feel like every single time that like Charlie would like talk to his mom like it was always like if I was like in the house he never talk to her like on the phone with me he'd always walk away and stuff but I almost feel like his mom always knew something was going on or something needed to be taken care of what you like tell you he never tell you I mean like he kind of like he he was the type that he would realiz like oh like my family doesn't know anything about that but in my head I'm like okay then why do you walk away and you know like whenever we're talking about something or like you know like you're keeping you don't want me to hear it like you don't want me to hear something email messages from Donna to Wendy showed that both knew that something was going on and that Donna was likely the one who was pulling the strings so obviously his mom has to have known something well later on during throughout the whole bump Charlie tried to get you to come down and meet with his parents do you remember that we even play those calls in trial so you've heard that call again since you've had the calls but not H to meet his parents it was to meet come in to meet his parents cuz you decided not to go inside you said meet me down the street at the restaurant I don't want to meet your parents I want to meet down the street at the restaurant I think I ever said I want to meet your parents I was on the calls he was wanting you to he was wanting you to come into the icon and meet with his parents and you were like yeah I don't I want you to come down I don't want to come in there with them and I want you to come down there the Charlie so you don't remember that either no I remember meeting up with him but I don't remember him like insinuating like oh you have he said that he was with his parents but I've never like been and all no not like together like that like we're all together now so never had any conversations with his mom Wendy never had conv with Wendy never had a conversation with his mom now my opinions on that is completely different yeah like obviously like I said like I put the you know like that's how my brain is working too it's like I'm putting things and I was like okay what's this what you just said is what you know and that's literally all we're here trying to do do not guess I want to say my opinion and I don't want we will know the difference in your opinion but what you know and what you heard is all we're here trying to get to and what you heard is important even though and what developed your opinion that you hear or see something outside of what you saw in trial did you see something before trial before all this happened that led you to that did you hear Charlie saying something did you see him doing something did you have did you experience something that now you think oh that's how that's why she knows because Charlie said this or said that or did that is there anything that led you to believe that whole conversation with his mom like you know like again it's like was going back and forth like he's having a conversation with his mom he must have mentioned something about me because his mom is like obviously talking about me you're talking about the totle three calls again what what you heard in trial yeah I believe so yeah so I guess we'll we'll backtrack let's go back to July of 2014 they make another trip was the circumstances surrounding that was similar to the other one where money had to be exchanged to rent a car yeah ifo had asked me like you know do you remember that if you didn't have any money you probably would have asked me like hey I need I need some money I don't you don't remember it I don't remember if he had asked me for money for that you remember going to Tass no this is the whole so I'm ask you a couple specific things in this world because these are just things I'm trying to confirm so do you remember anything about and Rivera testified about this stuff do you remember anything about the Instagram and Rivera posting something stupid what he was talking about like the tiger or whatever he had it has changed yes it might be a zebra next week I don't know I mean like through the trial and stuff but do you remember oh that happening no you don't remember calling and saying hey you dumb ass you put something I don't remember what you said no I would yeah that's what I'm saying like I don't I never knew about Lis being with t fro all right so let's go I don't know how much I caness but let's go to the part about after it's done and there's a phone call between you and Garcia it's the first phone call you've seen it a thousand times first phone call after it's completed they're about an hour and a half away from Tallahassee and Rivera says he hears you and Garcia talking where were you when that conversation took place Garcia made an incriminating post on social media shortly after the murder giving away his location maguana angrily confronted him and forced him to take it down when I was talking to S FR on the phone M after Dan has already been shot well were he saying that like I know or like I said I know but I never said I know or even had a getting I'm getting so where were you yeah do you remember where you were when that call was no okay you don't remember me Fro would talk but like like I don't know like maybe I was in the house in my house in Treasure Drive okay either that or I was I I don't remember I don't well let's good this you didn't take money from Charlie's house yes and take it to meet Garcia and Rivera the day after that's like that's where it gets a little blurry for me too because I have gone to you know to L okay irrelevant you took money how much money did you get from Charlie I never saw it he in the trunk okay go through that whole thing I don't care what day that was just tell me what that was okay the the um the night that Charlie told me to come over to his house and that he was like frantic about everything I was like okay whatever I'll come over that's when he had mentioned that uh about the accident but I didn't know that that marel got shot like I didn't know about about that like I don't think he yeah I didn't not even him I don't that's I don't know if it was him that he was I think so I guess but like never saying about like him getting shot or whatever that's why that phone call of me knowing would have never occurred because I wouldn't even know anything and Charlie didn't say anything on the phone obviously a phone call occurred because there's records of that and you and gcia all yeah like of me you don't remember the specifics that Rivera okay fine that's fine we can work with before you went to Charlie you went met witho when they got back to town that night you went and met with s fro then you went to Charlie you remember that I don't think I met with s fro though like talking to himal to him and then you showed up right there when they were close to her house and record show you they went the D was it Duffy is that the sports bar they went to that was close by yeah right close I don't recall meeting up as I do recall going to Charlie house CU right after that that's when you talk to Charlie and you drove up there drove his house right after you cuz I know I left I know I left and we were like Charlie was telling me to come over to his house do you remember meeting with s Fredo after he got back and telling you that it's taken care of or any of that like do you remember meeting with him when he got back in town when he got back in town I understand you don't know that he that they at this time that he killed them or shot him but do you remember him meeting saying that this is handled we handled this for for your friend or anything after that I don't know if he he might have I I don't know I'm just saying what made you facilitate the phone call with Charlie to get the money well obviously Charlie knew something happened therefore when that happened he was supposed to have like money like ready cuz he knew that he had to pay so that was the understanding once it was done that he was to pay right way yeah but I wasn't like I didn't know I'm going up there to go meet up with Charlie so that I could you know to get that like he doesn't want to say anything obviously on the phone right so when I got up there I just remember that he was like frantic and he was just like I remember he had like like a gun with him and I was just like what like but he was he was he was like just acting weird at that when I got to his house and um I know he had taken like a Xanax and then met it too because we just fell asleep like I can't even recall like what conversation was happening or whatever I just know that he in the morning before I left he's like hey it's in your trunk and I was like okay in my understanding that that's like the money in my trunk never looked at it never open anything never had it like in my hand okay so when you met up with him where did you meet up with him at with who with Charlie nocia so you left Charlie's house up next morning when I when I drove back down I think that's when I'm trying to look for sa Fredo and he was like nowhere to be found and that's when I had like called um I don't know if he called me or I called him or whatever because he's that's why with the phone number was like confusing me because other people had their phones like um remember you told I mean like you said that it wasn't even it was so you mean you called number fora that somebody else answered no you're talking about orz aren't you yeah like I like they I don't know if Wasing was he living in that apartment in bis game orever like other people were well I know he was at shrimp's house yeah I don't know where I think he was cow shopping around that time frame but I think he had his apartment too somewhere along like 70 something in this game he could have all be honest with you that's that's where like you know all of them hung out or whatever when like they would exchange phones and stuff like other like is the Ortiz number herro's phone yeah okay so I remember hebro was always like at his house so I'm trying to contact him that's why I'm never trying to contact Lewis that was later that was after you tried to call Lewis you tried to call Lewis first on his old number and then you call after that okay so all this was just yes so all these calls you're making is you now have the money you you love Charlie's house Charlie gave you the money it's your understanding obviously you didn't see it in touch it I get that but you knew that he put money in the back to P this so all these calls you're making is to try and find S Fredo to give him this money is that correct yes where did you find it uh I was I think I was parked behind I don't know if he I don't know how it came about but like I just ended up like in the kind of like um in theall way of like like the alleyway of Louis's and apartment M and he just like jumped inside the car out of nowhere like he no okay cuz you know I guess he didn't want me to know that he was somewhere else and clearly he was a shrim house and you know I couldn't find him or anything what made you go to the alleyway outside of Louis's apartment he told me to go over there or so you got a hold of him on the phone and he told you to go feed him over there yeah I just thought that I had to go over there what happened there so he goes he gets in the car was like Hey you know you got a package in the back grabs it and goes and then I left I left to go home because yeah I left to go home did you ever see it at all no I never saw it like the package you never he just jumped grab out of the TR yeah and he didn't give you a third of that money he didn't give me money to till like he came back like later on I don't know if it was the same day but like then he gave me money how much did he give you I didn't know let me askom question was it stable yes you don't know how much he gave you she said huh you don't know how much he gave you no he didn't I mean I didn't count like I know it it was you know it was after everything she had done maguana should have known exactly how much money she had been owed and would have checked to make sure Garcia gave her the correct amount a couple stats but it's like I didn't like not a specific number and I'm not going to say like 30 because that's like you know what I'm saying it's like that's a number that's like sticking out that's what R stacks of what stacks of what exactly stacks of like of like staple money but what were the bills do you remember the size of the bill how much what kind of bills were they $1 bill I think they were like hundreds and then maybe like hundreds and like 20 like you know 20s like and okay and they were stable yes okay where were you at when he brought you that money I was in my apartment so he came back to your apartment yes so the next part of it is a little I mean I don't want to like because I just want to get it out of my head so that you you know obviously um I just know it was kind of like and there's another thing that stick out like that that uh that Charlie was saying about like oh like cleaning the money or like like actually I guess cleaning the money because it was like after like I put I got the money and I put it away in my closet like I said like that's why I don't know the amount I never counted it I'm not there sitting and counting it but it did like get moldy like it was like wet like it was like moisture so I think it was literally like washed cuz it was like it was I was like Hey like d like this like this thing like looks like and thinking in my head well yeah but like he he said stuff like that and I just you know I didn't think about like actually I like I didn't feel for it that it was wet or anything but you know it started getting like moldy and stuff and I was like oh the M you gave me is like moldy like I think it was just wet he was just like just dry it just blow dry it and I was like okay and then that was like the end of it he's so Charlie's the one that was talking about yeah like okay like I said he makes Charlie makes these like comments and things that like I would be oblivious to and not really pay attention to until like after like I'm you know things that he's saying like you said like I said he's like he made sure that I knew that he didn't print that whatever it was was in the envelope you know like he's like oh I wear gloves when I put it in like he's telling me things so that I guess like you know you wouldn't be blackmailed or whatever so there's no way for it to come back to him he was using me through the whole thing you know obviously like feeding me other stuff and I believed it like an idiot so when SFO paid you the money and he came back to your apartment and gave it to you did he tell you anything about what happened and or how it happened no he never told me any details okay what point did you find out that marel was dead that I I don't remember I know from like the whole bump like I at that point something I I like I don't know if like somebody passed I mean like if he passed away or anything or like that even that's where it gets blurry for me because I don't know when I found out that that would you know you obviously knew the bu because that happened a couple years later years later years later so yes okay what point cuz you're working for Charli you're working for Charli he's paying you're supposedly cleaning the office is what you said right um and he's paying you money at that what point while that's happening do you know that he's dead at that point cuz the funeral's already happened things are already on the news all that stuff's happening already I believe so I think yeah like I do you know who told you how you found out I don't know if it was if it was Charlie that told me back when when Garcia gave you the money did he tell you why or did you know why I just knew that he had to take care he did something that he got he's he getting paid for like that's it yeah yeah he didn't tell me like what happened or how he got it so you knew that like for me but you know you knew that that was your portion of what Charlie put in them I mean s just tends to give me you know like he even like if he if he he knows that I was like a stickler about like you know like hey you have to help me out with the kids or whatever like that's why I even put him on child support because obviously he blew through whatever money he had I don't know how much money he had I know he got you know like he just gave me a portion of it and I don't know if that has something to do with his portion too but I I usually have was there an understanding that you were going to get a portion of it once they take care of this for helping yeah I mean he was just going to pay like not like this is your specific portion but he's like you right you need am yeah okay so there's an that you were going to get some money mbana isn't being honest about her payment this isn't the kind of action someone coordinates without knowing how much they will make for the risk they're taking once this was completed from what Charlie was paying well for him to do this like it was just it's so that I could have money yeah like you know that's that's what I wanted to clear up okay um I just wanted to clear all that up because I know I know it's all processing your head you're going back and forth so I want to make sure we have it clear as what your understanding of it was at that moment because that's all we're caring about your your perspect perspective your involvement what you saw and experience during this what knowledge you have it's not so much your involvement because no matter what you did it's it's over with for you now you don't have anything else to get in trouble for I want you to understand that I know you don't want the perception and it's hard to admit that yes I did this and it was wrong it's hard to admit it and I don't and I know that's a problem for you you don't want that out there but and this is probably a conversation where if your attorney was here we would step out and he' have another conversation with you about this because it's really important that you tell us everything that you know and you know it's time now because nothing worse is going to happen to you for anything that you know or that you say nothing worse is going to happen to you let me ask you this where are your kids right now oh with my family you're staying with your brother still okay has anybody ever threatened you or promised you anything not to testify or not to cooperate this no nobody's everbody you're no cion whatsoever of why you didn't want to cooperate early on or anything else that's a whole another ball game of like you know why I never even went for it like even from the first day that I had gotten arrested like with everything being retracted like we were all still confused we're like I still even when like got arrested and I'm like I blocked everything off everybody's like blowing up my phone trying to tell me like you know what happened or whatever and like that he was involved in all of this it's like I just didn't want to hear anything about it I didn't go off you think I was there like Googling like I did not want to know like I know I had to take care of my kids and that's it and I just she read the probable calls with the attorney so you knew what the facts were of what afraid yes yeah like I knew the facts from his probable cost I want to go hire his attorney so it's like his attorney started like advising me like telling me like hey like you might you know like need to get your own attorney because you have you know like they're start they're saying your name and all the stuff or whatever just to protect myself and that's when I had hired um Tara well I had somebody else and then I H I hired Tara after okay well here's what you ever heard the ter minimization minimizing minimizing someone's role in something a lot of people have a hard time admitting to what they did what their role is on something and it's called minimizing they minimize their role and I don't want you to do that here okay cuz it's only going to hurt you we have a strong case on Charlie it's stronger than what we had on you yeah you know this is not something that we're you know we have to have you or anything we're hoping you're going to tell us the truth then we're hoping you're going to come forward and tell us everything yeah okay I don't want you to minimize this because it's only hurt yourself okay so I I get but that's that's why it's like and I get it and I get because everything you're telling us is how you didn't know this you didn't you weren't aware of this and that because nothing was ever like for certain and that's why I say it in that in that way like this whole thing this the whole time it's I was and I I'm not going to put blame on anybody else or whatever because I take accountable of like all of this and that's why I've been fighting I'm fighting the whole time too is because it's like what am I supposed to do like if I was to had cooperated from the beginning that destroys everything even s fro even and like and I get it and I get you guys everybody's already had this whole perception I honestly I just want a chance to get home to my children this is why I'm in the situation right now right and that's what I'm trying to tell you right now is being totally honest is what can help you if you're holding back and trying to minimize your role in this it's only going to hurt okay sense I understand that but I'm not going to be but it's to the point too that I'm like I wasn't for certain with a lot of things and that's why I'm not going I understand you're not certain what was going to happen you're not certain how they were going to handle it or what the actual planning of any of it was but it was a understanding there was some kind of communication some kind of conversations that happened where it was an understanding to you that Charlie was going to give you money and you were going to going to have sigfredo take care of Charlie's problem that was that was the certain understanding correct I understand that you don't remember the exact words of how it was said but that was an absolute right you knew that he was going to pay you money to give to S to take care of the problem you knew that you were going to get a portion of that money for taking care of this problem for Charlie is that correct yes ma'am okay that's that's what we're getting we understand you won't remember exact words and exact conversations but the actual context that's what the context means um is the actual conversation the understanding of what is going to occur and how you going to be compensated for what taking care of that issue yes ma'am okay so that's what we need to get to is those conversations and how the planning of it and how it came about and then how once it was taken care of the detectives have called mabana out on her attempts to deflect some of the responsibility this means they aren't going to keep letting her get away with saying that she doesn't recall certain events or that she doesn't know most of the details how the compensation happened and how they knew to compensate at that point um and then I mean it was basically like understanding without verbalizing it that's that's the part it's like okay like that's going to happen and then like again I just relay you know but um I can't tell you like specifically I was think it's the signed for me to really not know and that's the part don't you think if I would have known specifics and everything from the day one I would have been like hey you think I want to spend but you knew I know but I'm saying like keep me happy we only got 45 minutes let's talk about the things you don't know let's try to talk about things that you know that we don't know that like conversations you had with Charlie after the bump things like that conversations you had over the phone that weren't recorded or through WhatsApp did he at some point come to you and and tell you to switch over to Whatsapp we've use WhatsApp every now and then so it was never like to just okay talk to me through WhatsApp doing it for a while yeah yeah okay um what are some of those conversations you had with him about this even after the bump some things that we don't know about because it's that's what I'm saying it's like it's not like I mean all that stuff has been recorded but I never thought you know like I we're not really thinking that it's like we're being recorded at that time I guess he was thinking that he was being recorded So he was but that conversation at at Del yes it it what do you remember about that conversation well that's when okay so the bump happened right and he had spoken to his mom obviously his mom is freaking out about something and that's why he needed to talk to me so when he spoke to me about it he's feeling me out and I'm like trying to find out what's going on and stuff but not really like taking I honestly like I wasn't taking it seriously like I wasn't like okay heightened by it like okay like it's a serious situation but I was like at the same time I'm like you had that thought for a little while it was but so when first met it was almost like he know you were sitting him up and kind of the same when y'all first met y'all met in the car first do you remember that now yeah y'all first met in the car what did he say in the car to you when he first sat down he said all right I just met with my mom blah what did he say I don't think he didn't say nothing he told you about the bump right he told you what happened there it's the very first time he told you about the phone cuz over the phone you couldn't talk about it okay he didn't know he met with his mom in person he drove to your office you came out optimar you got in his car what was that what did he tell you I that's a big thing that he talked about because I didn't even remember that time that we spoke in the car until until we brought it up again M bana was the first person that was contacted after the hit while certain details may have faded over time she would at least remember the general content of that conversation after like I didn't I didn't even remember like okay like I from my understanding I just probably jumped in his car like really quick and then like okay what do you want to eat orever where do you want to talk and then what he showed you the not right he show you he did not show me I swear he did not ever show me any note anything cuz even in that video like you see him he's like this but he never yeah like he read it but he never showed it to me he probably read it to you did he read it to you did he pull it out in the car he had he got some information like he's like talking about it but he's never cuz why wouldn't he just show it to me like it's like he he didn't trust you he didn't trust you he didn't know if you were trying to get more money out of it he didn't know if it was you extorting him I get that but I'm just trying to get you what did he tell you in that car we didn't we weren't part of that conversation we recorded that nothing that stuck out to me that nothing you know did you remember okay I literally felt like we just wanted like I went in his car like he's like probably like parked over here like where are we going to eat okay but no conversation about about anything and that's why it was like kind of funny too that not funny but you know like about like maybe he was like frisking to see if I was like wired or something I'm like none of that happened like literally we didn't even like how long were we in the car I don't even remember being in the car that long it didn't nothing stuck out in that conversation well another conversation you know talked about a while ago when you drove down there to meet with him he was with his parents at the icon and you met him at the restaurant what was that conversation about okay when I had met I cuz cuz I was getting upset too because I needed to get something signed from him for like insurance purposes or whatever and then I had it with with me and I was already in a fight with fro that's why I was like in the and house um but I was telling him like meet me somewhere closer I didn't want to go drive all the way down the South Beach or what or you know but he's was talking to his parents I get that we have that you know what you said on the phone what happened when you got there when I got there okay when I got there he was already like I was trying to look for him and he already finished his conversation with his parents so whatever his conversation with his parents is probably something that he relied to me but I can't remember what we spoke about prob the B probably that I mean that's the only thing that I me that's what happened you weren't talking on the phone anymore y were meeting in person at this point so he would meet in person and talk to you about all this this the bump already happened right so this is when he had spoken to me so he's probably like just telling me not the probably tell us what he told you about the bum not he's probably telling me or you're assuming tell us what he told you about the bum that his mom got approached and um that's when the whole Lew thing started sticking out in my head so tell tell us best the best you can recall about that conversation how he told you it so he told you his mom got approach what else not not the Louis conversation what was the Louis conversation okay that his mom got approach and that his mom said somebody said my name to his mom so he's I don't even know cuz I'm a little bit like I'm kind of confused now I confused what you remember and what you're trying yeah like like what happened like what occurred or whatever because it's like the whole DOL like I was even confused when we were talking what were you confused about he was like asking me questions he's trying to ask me about like if if this is somebody like I guess trying to set him up or trying to extort money from him okay that's what like extorting money from him and I'm thinking in my head because then I SEO thinks that he that Lewis has something to do with like getting money out of his family and that's why I think SEO started to get a little like suspicious about it and that's when I put two and two and I was like okay so then LS has something to do with this too because why is he acting like this but he's not telling me like what's going on kind of like I'm just going to take care of it I'm going to take care of it k k stop talking like and I'm trying and at that point I'm you know cuz I'm living with him and everything I'm like lagging him I'm like what's going on like what's really like what happened he's not telling me anything and that's the part that I wanted to speak to SEO about because no matter how many different ways they question her maguana still relies on faulty memory and insists that the others left her out of the loop on most of their actions I wanted to know at this point it's like I want to know what happened because like why like just clear out this whole thing that was a little bit later because you actually had that conversation with him over the phone after y'all were messing up the phone number after Charlie left you you never called s Fredo you went home that night and talked to him right okay well after Charlie so after Charlie came to your office and told you my mom got bumped into this person came gave him gave my mom this paper and this is all the different people could be be some extor be all these other things and talk to him about no no no I like yeah we why didn't you talk we didn't even talk know on the Fredo at that point didn't want to talk on the phone at all like he was already like suspicious about everything he thinks that that that Louis is like setting him up or something is happening or like that has to do with the police like so at that point his threat on him it's either that or it has to do something with Louis he didn't tell me that's why even when we got home we didn't even like talk about it like it was like don't worry about it I'm going to take care of it if this point did you still not know leis was involved well at this point I had an assumption yeah that he has something to do with it of course I mean even that's why it's like I'm looking back and it's like what you know like they're always together but at the same time it's like why would s fro even need him to do anything when I went to you specifically like why are you you know like why are you involving you never got ask no and that's what I wanted to ask him all of that stuff and for him to tell me because I know he'd open up and tell me like I know you guys think that we probably were like here trying to like um have this elaborate plan or whatever but I just really wanted to talk to him and like for him to finally say things because there's a lot of questions where I feel like I got it's not we didn't want you to have an elaborate plan it's like Pat said a little while ago that that you giving us information Garcia has we can't use anything like that we have to get it directly from Garcia and there's a lot of things that only he would talk to us as well may I ask if that's even a possibility very much because it's like at at the end of the day it's like I just of course like I I felt like why didn't he just step up and say something I think he had a similar thought that you thought you remember minutes AG you said that I if I had come forward it would have screwed everything up for him I think he has a very similar thought that he would do the same for you only thing we can think so and that's when reality that both of you are only protecting one person right now and that was well at this point that's changed but Charlie was the only one oh he was the last person that we were we were protecting believe me if it's just okay like that's why I didn't understand why it took so long to like arrest him either I was like with all of this information and all like it would if you would have told to us you been arrested me I tried to come to you but that that it never came off that way where it's like oh like she we knocked on your door why are you so scared of the FBI why are you so scared of you never nobody ever said who they were like I looked out the window and you guys did not badges on you said on the phone those are police the police I never said it it was his friend that came around and around the block and he told me that the FBI was in there you guys I swear you guys never announced knew FBI was talking to didn't you guys have a a conversation on the phone um I mean didn't you guys hear my conversation on the phone with if I would yes yeah talking to him the FBI was talking to him and then even on the phone he's like talking about like oh these people are talking to me about like Tallahasse or whatever and then we went to your lawyer we went to S fre was lawyer and tried to talk to him and wanted we wanted you to talk to us you never would talk to us I I was more than willing to talk but just the way that every time that it happened it wasn't the way that it was like you guys said that you like they announced you guys never announced to me I did not know until Mike told me that I had asked him and he you guys were already over there you guys came at the same time so I'm trying to blow up his phone trying to see like who is it that's like knocking and you guys never announced it my dog is like some knocks on your door you call somebody to find out who it is call somebody the way it is they just knocked on the door trying to talk to you anyway that's your at this point but bottom line all right um we don't have but a little bit more time um is there anything that you could think of that conversation wise that you had with Charlie or anybody else regarding this that we don't know about that you can help yourself out with by telling us about because right now you haven't told us a whole lot what what we haven't known but that's that was always my problem because if I had all the answers it would have been so much easier to just go by and I'm not even asking for all the answers I'm asking for any answer any information if you were sitting in our shoes and you watched all the trials and you saw what we got right what we got wrong is there something we are missing that you think we need to know I don't even know where to go from there like something that did we get something wrong I would gear towards Charlie's issues not your own I mean I know I know where you differentiate there was a lot of confusion like I alone was confused like how everything came about it's like okay yeah everybody was lying to each other so there's all that confusion already this may be the most honest statement maguana has made so far each person was willing to sacrifice the other to save themselves and the level of distrust was high enough for all of them to lie to each other after so many years sorting them all out would be next to Impossible at that time I can't think of how why I acted the way I did how I you know even prior to even giving in and and doing this for Charlie you know I can't explain to you other than financial issues that that's what I'm saying like he manipulated me and this is like through time of him telling me things little by little and then probably just gave him like yeah whatever like I had somebody and obviously I threw it off on SFO but when I'm talking to afraid about it it's never any details so it's like I was kind of always just like okay you know like I I just ping ponged it from one person to another so it's not like for certain for certain like I'm there like you know I'm coming up with like a master plan of like what's going to happen and this is how it's going to happen is just Charlie feeding me things that I can't even for the life of me remember spe you know like what it is that he exactly said or you know wanted me to do what's something that we miss something we we don't know about how this all came together after the bump after your meetings with Charlie obviously we we have the things that are on the phone calls that you've heard everybody's heard hundreds of times in this everybody in this room I could say has probably heard them hundreds of times um obviously we know that outside of that you guys had outside conversations um obviously you were sweating it you you got police FBI knocking on your doors um you have people getting arested your child's father is now arrested and charg with this I know conversations happened you guys said okay let's not talk on phones anymore so conversations happened you guys met in person had conversations what were those conversations like with Z Fredo or both s Fredo and with Charlie really everything was kind of like on the phone too like not just separate because obviously we were still talking on the phone I wasn't under the impression Charlie's always been the one who been paranoid about it Charlie and S Fredo was paranoid about it apparently I'm the only one who was like okay with talking on the phone because wasn't really hiding anything like yeah like I knew about it but I wasn't like saying you know like I'm talking about after the phone Charlie calls you tells you don't talk on your phones our phones are tapped you guys get off the phone s fra goes out and buys you guys you and him burn our phones okay when that happens you and Charlie have other conversations where you meet in person y'all have other conversations through what what are those conversations like with the WhatsApp is just where we were going to like meet up that was your location to meet okay when you met up what were those conversations like okay when we went to the icon that was a conversation about like the whole bump okay and then that's what I told you like I had seen his parents but it wasn't to meet his parents but I'm just like I've never like even spoken to his mom or anything about any of this obviously my opinions on what everything now is different and yeah like she like knew everything or like they him and Charlie were always talking about it because why else would you always walk away but if you're going to involve me in this and why was he always walking away cuz he was like protecting his mom right the whole time absolutely but what was his conversations was like with you about that okay we talked about the bump he told me your approach y'all had other conversations okay they approached the bump you tried to call the phone number and you couldn't get through I'm sure you went back and had that conversation with Charlie what were those conversations like it was all on the on the phone I mean the recorded phone calls but after those phone calls you he specifically calls you tells you we cannot talk on the phones hang up your phone we can't talk on the phone where our phones are TA you guys stop talking and communicating on the phone at that point and never spoke on the phone again after you talk WhatsApp through WhatsApp you did and you said through WhatsApp is only locations to meet up so we know y'all have met up we know there was other conversations cuz there was a right away yeah but he never said anything on WhatsApp either like no specifics what about your in person conversations you met him in person what kind of conversations did you have in person with them after that after you stopped talking on the phone now you're probably freaking out sh H in the fan people are being arrested FBI's knocking on your door this ain't flying under the radar this two years later you thought you got away with it now you didn't now you're sweating what are those conversations like I can't remember what you can't remember any of the conversations that we don't already know about that it's already been in trial yeah no I can't remember any of the conversations we had after okay that those are the kind of conversations that are going to help you because what you're giving us is stuff we already know stuff that we're already aware of stuff that we already have there is something in those conversations that maguana is trying to hide there is enough evidence against her that there is little chance that anything she reveals could cause more harm to her case Stu that we already have a really good case yeah you're wanting help those are the conversations you need to remember the things that we don't know the things that we did not get on recordings the things that we were not a part of the things that we did not have any kind of information about those are the things that you need to remember those are and those are the conversations I can't even remember right now like I don't you've had years to think about this like today is it like we're coming up with new questions today you've been thinking about this case for years while you're sitting in jail but that's the thing I don't think about this case like sitting in the jail yeah like there's you don't think children rest of their lives you know that this case is what calls that if you want if you want if you don't spend rest your life in prison you're going to have have a real comfor conversation with yourself and your attorney something because you're not there this is this these are conversations where attorney usually ask us to leave the room so they can talk to you and say look you've got to come you've got to come straight forward you can't be half partial truth and half partial deflecting the the blame on everybody else that I didn't really know but I should have there are things there that you knew I'm not saying you know everything but there's things there that you knew and what you're telling us just doesn't make sense it just doesn't doesn't make sense it's like all it the fact that you don't remember any conversation about the most probably one of the most stressful times of your life that's why I no no no no no you remember those conversations those conversations are are things that stick in your head those are the time you supress you can suppress things as it goes on and and you're trying to focus on your trial you know you're only giving us what we already know you're only giving us the things that we already knew happened you're not giving us anything else and those are the conversations that you know because you're that's the most stressful time of your life you're going around your baby daddy's just been arrested for this murder that you helped facilitate that did not happen without you okay so you know those conversations those are the ones that you need to sit back and think about and try to remember because those are the ones that we don't know those are the ones that are going to help you and I understand you don't want to take the blame for this but you have taken the blame you have taken it you're here you're not getting out this is the blame for you doesn't matter if you turn around and say yes I knew about it the whole time or oh I didn't really know what was happening that's irrelevant what's relevant is what you heard what you said what you did with these people that's what's relevant that's all that's relevant get in any more trouble it can only get better I completely understand that this is this the part that it's like I can't but you were worried about it being on camera a while ago you got to wipe that out of your head people already know you're on you're on camera you're on camera and all this it's that's irrelevant what you need to focus on is remembering what happened and telling us what happen that's the most important thing for you right now because without that you're here there's nothing there those conversations are the ones that you need to try to but that's why even from the beginning that if like I would just don't you think I would have just wanted to co cooperate from the beginning CU you guys I don't know why you didn't we gave you many opportunities and the whole thing you you didn't know who was at the door whatever we tried Katie and you didn't come forward I don't know why you didn't you had you must have your own reasons that's why I'm asking if you've been threatened if you've been threatened we can protect you if somebody's threatening you or threatening your family we kind of worried about this whole thing after after the trial about the whole Latin king or whatever but apparently that has nothing to do with me King has nothing to do with you I'm talking about why you didn't cooperate to start with why why you have failed to all the way until now if there's something keeping you from doing it please let us know we can help with that is it just you don't remember the conversations a lot of the things yes I don't remember that's why it's like and there was never conversations that stuck out cu if something was to stick out convers that's why right now I know it gets frustrating and I see it and I'm seeing it on your side it's like if I was talking to somebody too like just say it and I've always wanted to be that I want to be the one who says it but if I'm not certain about or we wouldn't have even spoken on the phone to begin with if like if I was just going to go off and just talk on the side anyways right my my thing is is it's the conversations after you guys get off the phone the things yeah and there's nothing that stuck sticks out to even be like so when you met at the icon that day remember back you met at the icon that day you didn't talk about the bump because the bump happened almost two weeks before that the bump actually he told you about the bump in the car and at your work outside your work and told you when he called you back down I call is because of a different bump you remember any of those other bumps that happened because that's when you're on the phone cussing out saying I'm G to up whoever's doing this he was just constantly talking about oh this is cu he's thinking that he's getting he's like that he's getting blackmailed and I'm here thinking that Louis is blackmailing Seco so that's the whole frustration and like I'm here trying to ask C fro things he's not telling me things and I'm here trying to figure out things to relate back to to Charlie and Charlie just keeps on and on about the same thing so I was the one who was frustrated that's the point that it's like I said all of that because it's like you're making all of this like you're listening to us and all this stuff and I'm like okay then I'm going to call the FBI but then it's like what was I going to do to call the FBI and what tell them what I'm telling you guys right now at the end of the day this is my life believe me I want to get home to my children I don't want to anything I don't want to go through all of this I don't want to waste your time that's the last thing I am in prison right now I never think that I'd be in prison so tell us about like when he called you down there what did he tell you about that's what nothing SES out to my head there was a bump he didn't tell you about other bumps a letter a text message a call to the office those other bumps that's when he called you down to the icon but he already he already said that over the phone no he just told you to come meet him unless you talk on WhatsApp it's not on the phone calls that's what I'm trying to get you we already said how those conversations go but we were on phone call already regarding that there was the okay so his mom got that bump and then the following thing was considering the stress they were under they weren't meeting for a friendly conversation panicked accusations getting their story straight and Promises not to reveal anything that might incriminate the others would all be more believable alternatives to magana's current version of events I just wanted to let you know real quick that my merch shop stranger.com has a ton of quality and unique designs that you can purchase right now and by doing so support the channel at the same time items like the architect and the interrogator hoodies the mentally checked out and the stranger t-shirts the do not cross mugging the allseeing beanie are all there and available check out these and other items I have to offer on stranger.com and don't forget to use code stranger 15 to get an extra 15% off your entire order and with that out of the way let's get back to the case somebody I mean like we all trying to call that number and I'm here lying to him that I called it and then and then Cero's lying to me about calling that number but nobody's really calling the number I don't know if s Fredo ever really did call the number because then he did say to me something about there's somebody Spanish that picked up the phone later yes so did he really ever call that number later on he did yes okay and like left the message or that's the messaging that was on there okay so then he's telling me that that's all recorded like that there was nothing ever after that that we spoke separate from it and he told me about that Charlie told me about somebody going to his office and dropping off that well dropping off a letter or that they need that information or whatever but we that was all on the phone there was never anything sear went down remember you went down to the icon met him at the restaurant yeah that was I think he's just said everything that's been happening not anything that was right after one of the bumps that was right after one of the bumps that's why I told you that you need to figure this out you need to find out he's pressuring me like at this whole time he's pressuring me things like he's like you need to find out what's going on and he's trying to figure out if like cedo is is probably doing something or trying to get somebody to get money from him or whatever it is whatever the ca SEC freaking out because it might be Louis that's doing something he's the one who that's what I mean what did he say to you to make you think that he he thought s Fred was extorting him what would he say about that was that conversation that's try get from you how that conversation went no cuz he he's just going off I that's why I don't remember specific things that he saying but he's probably yeah he's going off and and telling me you need to figure this out you need to figure this out because in his head he's probably like okay well you know somebody's going to out all of us or whatever so he actually said you like Fredo trying to exort me for more money is he no he never he never that conversation comment made about somebody's going to have all of us during one of those conversations there was a comment made about somebody is on the inside somebody too close about the the layers or whatever you said this is getting too detailed somebody on the inside that knows somebody on the inside I'm thinking it's LS okay like he that like LS is doing all of this like this that was always my assumption that it was L doing this because maybe he talked to somebody you at this point thought it was the cops you you were like somebody I mean no I mean like I had I would think that it has something to do with police you think L was flipping already but you're telling you're telling sred that did you tell Charlie that did you ever tell Charlie you think no I'm I'm getting this vibe from s Fredo because s Fredo is freaking out the only reason why he would be freaking out is because it has to do something with THS now this is when I put two and two together that I'm like okay like did he do something with leis cuz I'm thinking in my head the whole time that it was you know like whoever me going too about it I I would think that s Fredo would go to somebody else about it and the whole time I'm just relaying it to SFO but wouldn't be stupid enough for him to really be the one who's doing it does that make sense now yeah you thought s fro would be the one in the process in the proc yeah be able to get someone to take care of it for you yes basically okay so you him knowing that he has those connections that he could have got somebody to do it yeah not him doing anything but then he got paid and he's giv you money and you're giving them money but that has nothing to do with me he can pay off somebody else that's him getting PA they give you money and then y you met out outside of Lewis's house so obviously at that point you knew Lewis was involved he was involved I think it I think if I'm remembering correctly these guys can correct me you've said it before like Lewis and S Gro are they're like this they're always together always doing things together so why would you think one would do something without the other if that's how they are I mean they hang out with a whole bunch of guys too think that a whole bunch of guys wasn't at Louis's house did did make another trip up here so confusing huh did C make a third trip you know if he made one before the June did he come up before June not that I can recall but probably I don't know how many like he never told me when he would go out of town did you ever you ever have to go get more money from Charlie prior to the murder I did lie about one time about two Charlie I was was afraid of me and him got back together and then that's that that's not that you said out of town it was always out of town so then that gave me an assumption that it wasn't in Miami like I have to get out of town anything he was going to do any type of business or whatever it's like he was going out of town so what did you lie about oh I lied to to I lied to Charlie about needing money for you know yeah but we ended up taking the kids out like staying somewhere else and that was yeah for this but it was actually for you guys to go on vacation yeah yeah like we just like stay some rent to the hotel or whatever like with the kids so it was never like a trip but did you ever get money from him on a different time from S no for another trip April or May or anything like that M to do any kind of other stuff other than the June trip and then the murder was there any other time that you asked for money for for him to do whatever preparations he needed to yeah uh no I don't know I'm not I'm not certain okay that's what they're asking is any other he that he needed money for Preparation I'm thinking in my head that maybe it has happened but I'm not for certain so I don't want to okay say yeah because Z has mentioned you know times like hey I'm going to need money I need you know to to get out of town like he'd always just say get out of town like when he said that like that just triggered like a like something that he would say you know out of town like okay and then I just relay it back so it might have happened where there's another time before that but I'm just not certain I know I lied about that one time about him going out of town but it wasn't really for that like we ended up going out with the kids and just use that money to go out with the kids okay so I'm so like you're fine no it's not that it's just that I want to get to the bottom of this too and it's like like he said okay so for your county you're worried about like if you something you remember you get back and you remember and you be afraid to write it down because people will steal it because you're worried about it hindering your case okay youre now you here and after talking to us if something comes to your mind mind whatever I think you guys got you get stationary and stuff in there start writing it down um reach back out to your attorney or whichever just don't ever think that there was cuz cuz you're going to have a lot of time to think but it's like I know you guys are kind of getting frustrated about the whole situation of like conversations that like occurred I don't there was nothing that like really stuck out that like why would for that we wouldn't have never spoken on the phone to begin with a lot of the conversation was already on the phone so obviously I was free to want to talk about all of this stuff on the phone because I wasn't really in fear of something happening I'm feeding off of both of them freaking out and I'm trying to figure it out with them but they're not telling me the facts and this is why the whole thing of like maguana had more than enough information to piece together what was going on it is possible she was stringing Charlie on so he would continue to pay her to keep quiet in spite of her renewed relationship with Garcia yeah me cooperating and stuffff from the beginning but I don't really have all the facts like right now I'm back in square one I don't have the specific facts but from what I just relate and now from the beginning from beginning to end of all this anything that you think of or you remember is what I'm talking about anything that's going to come to mind that that you didn't think of because you said you suppressed a lot of it you suppress a lot of it and then you go back and then you're thinking like oh yeah this happened oh yeah that happened you forget it again when it's to come back up those are the thoughts that I'm talking about to to write down and kind of keep note of because those are things you don't want to risk forget them again and all how you remember them and those are the things you need to reach out to Chris and and when you when you have those so that way you can because if it's something that we don't know something that's hasn't already been out here something we haven't already discussed with you or has been brought at the trial that you know that we have you've seen everything we've got okay we're going to leave here and think of questions we forgot to ask sure it's inevitable it's going to happen to all of us so yeah and I had a whole bunch of questions that I wanted to ask you guys too specifically with the whole thing too like with like I have a lot of questions about s fro but obviously nobody's spoken to SFO I wish I would have just asked these questions believe me I I'm the one who's at the end of the day what were it's like if I would have just asked questions or if I would have just been more you know like instead of like bullshitting about it around that time you know like I wasn't take like that's what I'm telling you like I'm looking at it back now like yeah I feel stupid I feel stupid because the whole time I'm like not asking the same questions and I'm in this but I'm not really taking it seriously like I'm just like okay like and it's not something that shouldn't have been taken seriously like this is obviously it led up to this situation right now but these are things that like I want you I want you guys to go up to Z and ask these questions those are the stuff that only he can answer and then why he was saying the things that he said yeah I still talk to his mom every I mean every now no but that that's the thing it's like I try to relay like you know that's I can't have a conversation with them is that like not allowed I don't know how that's a sticky wi it we'll have to look at that I don't how we would accomplish that I I know the prisons don't allow you to to cont I know like not to have a prison but in this situation like we have children together I communication with him like I don't really have that direct communication I'm having a hard time with my mother-in-law because of the fact that it's like my my family is trying to protect my children and that's my number one priority is the protection of my children so they're not really comfortable with you know the whole thing was in Fredo's mom I mean yeah but she lives in California now yeah she this has caused a lot so issu kind of not want to talk and have conversations with you because she can't see I mean it's just very hard because then it's like I'm again in the middle because it's like I want my children to have their grandparent but it's like at the same time I'm getting frustrated because it's like I don't want this ongoing thing and anything to mess this whole situation up where more screwed I could get but it's you know like I just didn't want anything to hinder that and like I said I know you guys perceive it in all these different ways and it's like I can even tell just from your I I'm frustrated with myself I see the frustration frustration and I've just I've been through and I'm not I don't want to I'm not a complainer I don't want to complain like oh my god I've been through all yes it's been hell in here and I've had to put away a lot of things and it's like yeah supress all of those feelings and and I want and I want to help like yes I want an end to this whole situation but there's a lot of questions that I really cannot answer and is from what I remember you know granted if I go back in the dorm and I think back about all this convers the conversation things take out obviously I'm going to have that legal call with that's probably a better idea than writing it down yeah just call them when you think about it call your lawyers there's a risk for maguana to be targeted by other inmates if they can gain the information before she has the chance to volunteer it herself they could possibly use it as leverage in their own cases since this is a high-profile case down somethings are not recorded and if from the beginning I just I was not I never felt you know like I was approached in a way where it's like I should have you know like this could have all happened if I was in the beginning saying the same thing that I'm telling you now you probably would have reacted the same way like but what were those conversations well it's not sticking out to me because it was never anything why would I have to talk outside like I said like everything was on the phone calls yeah if he told me to meet or whatever Charlie just says the same thing all over again of everything he's already probably said on the phone call it was nothing at what point did anybody know that murder was supposed to happen and that's the that's the part that I was telling Chris I don't know when it transitioned from that to like me really finding out that this was okay it was a murder that was supposed to be done okay you don't know when that happened or how that happened yeah like when it transition from like okay that that that's what needs to be done I don't know if I'm just like it's it's hard obviously to be like I'm involved in you know somebody passing away somebody being murdered and ref facilitating all of this but you know you know like yeah I see the role that I played I see me ping ponging from both parties and stuff and I I see it so do you remember Charlie asking you that it need to transition to that like verbally was it how did that how did that occur wasn't over the phone was it was it in person how did Charlie present that to you I don't know like I said this is like through time of him really like getting in my head and just telling that this needs to be done this needs to be done but not like oh like he needs to he needs to be killed or whatever so how did you tell s Freo that how did you transition it to S fre I that's why I think that that paper had all the information therefore I never went back and forth to even go until asked Charlie this question or ask CRA of that question this is a like I'm thinking all the paper had directions um of who the person was what needed to be H like what needed to happen and that's that paper that I wish I had you saying that he was trying to show me that he had never show I didn't say he tried to show you said he he show for a while maguana is pinning her hopes on a piece of paper that no longer exists even if it did it wouldn't mean that she hadn't known what it contained yeah he's never showed it to me even in the car nothing that this is the point that I would be like yeah he showed me that paper like what I've got to lose there's not something that I would want to keep that's pretty well you said early on that you did but it's a pretty he didn't that he didn't it's pretty significant event for somebody just to go from beating somebody up to to murdering and you don't remember any of that transition process it's just not coming up in your head yeah like I I don't be exct I know not yeah but that that's what I was trying to tell with Chris as well like when did it get from point A to point B to this point and then now that that whole whole part is just like it's like it's a blur to me but I don't I don't know when Charlie said those specific words or even sure that it was said you just can't remember when no and you can't remember how you talked to S Fredo about at all how you went to S Fredo and say this needs to be a murder not but that's what I'm saying like he knew probably what it was for and obviously Charlie knew but I was NE I was never in the known because I think from that paper from the beginning it was already said there but they're not telling me anything therefore I don't know when it transpired and so you're thinking that the instructions everything was in the paper all the communication that you just knew that Charlie wanted someone taken care of you're wanted some beat up you told or hurt somebody hurt that's a really significant ask to put on a piece of paper for you to give to somebody that he doesn't even know I don't even know why the hell Charlie ever even came up to me I I think about that all the time like who comes up to somebody that they just met it's like how much does he know did he know who SI Freer really was tell him about s FR I mean I'm pretty sure that he was you know like every time that did you about your ex about your baby daddy about I'm pretty sure yeah I'm pretty sure that mentioned stuff like that and that's why I feel like he knew more keep going I feel like he knew more than what he led me to know he did you know he knew you felt like he knew that you had that connection that's why he talking why did he come up to me you don't think I asked my question all other people I wouldn't just come up to you I just met you it is possible that one way or another Charlie became aware of the connection that maguana had with Garcia and how that could be useful right and somebody that you're dating what but then now I so you think it was a calculated thing for him in your mind I feel like everything has been calculated was with you think everything with him the reason he started dropping those hense to you and bringing that up to you is because he knew that you had the connections to M he knew who like he knew who I was with and maybe who he hung out like I don't know I don't know to what extent obviously I know you don't know for sure but that's be your mind that's that's why he came to you that's why he came to you because he knew you had that connection with SEC creative him and kind of people that say just doesn't make sense like that's the part that doesn't make sense how do you feel so comfortable like you would never feel and then that was like did you do anything that make him feel comfortable with it other than other than you I mean obviously you told him you had somebody what makes sense is you telling him who tell him you have somebody that can do this and him trusting in you he com to you cuz he trust you I mean it's okay if you told him about somebody you told him you had somebody that could do this or you told him you say it's okay you're not going no I that's what that is what I said okay yeah I have somebody for you that's that's what was the conversation in the car but like it never even really went like I think it was a while before well yeah October the Halloween thing is when you said you said that's part you remember when you told him it was like a while for him to even like coup months something would yeah for for anything to even happen but I'm saying like even the initial thing why is it and why is it that me and why would you trust me I could have easily from the get been like this guy is crazy he's trying to make me you know like get somebody else hurt and it's like I could have flipped on him was it something you been saying to him you been talking to pray up or talking about some of your past was too early on at all I could remember I all I could think that I would have told him is that like you know how how the the stuff that I was going through with Fredo as far as like relationship wise you be about him all the frustration you have having money him doing drugs it was a lot of things now that I think about it with the Mone situation he knows that we were struggling he knew he knew that I you know like obviously no job no no no I'm saying that s has no job I'm having a hard time this is why I'm picking up jobs here there whatever and then working in the office but um a part of that is because he knew financially like you know I'm a single mom I just BR I been was a creator for a long time like I've been with him since I was 18 years old so it's just like it's our relationship has taken a change since we moved back down to Miami obviously after having two kids and stuff and it was like it got to the point where I got frustrated and that was over but then I still kept up and I still like you know like he was still in my life obviously he's father but I think about it all the time it's like he has to have known way more than he's presuming if he's trusting me enough to even think this and then I'm relaying it to Z obviously Z is going to trust me but then there's also some trust there because you did it it happened you didn't tell anybody you guys thought you got away with it for a couple years so obviously the trust was there the trust was built there for it so the trust is is there somehow there was something done to make him trust you for that and obviously he trusted you because you did it you didn't call the police to set them up you didn't call to report that this guy's trying to harm somebody trying to get me to hire someone we've worked cases many times before where they have called like hey this person is a little crazy I think they're actually going to do it you might want to get on this and we've done it so there TR was there time I already involved St gror like yeah but you put trust in you you told Charlie that you had somebody to do it somehow you did something to make him trust you to be able to have you do this remember any of those that's what I'm saying I don't know why how why he would have trusted me that's that's why I feel do you think that I feel like yeah there's got to be something you guys were talking about some topics you were on somehow something with your connection that you guys had during your you said y all just met because y all just started talking when he started dropping these hints obviously something in your interactions has made him want to trust you okay but him commenting that wasn't it from the past before about him hiring like a him was is that a joke an ongoing joke he said from before so what does he just go to different people at a time and ask them these things like that's a joke could have been a tool to feel people out and see who reacted as if they might be capable of following through with murder it could also serve the purpose of lowering suspicion of there being any Sinister intent behind an off-hand comment it is a dangerous Bluff and in the end it didn't pay off he's said this comment before he ever even knew of me or or right so he said this comment before to other people all these other things the only time that actually took half he's been looking and then conversation go with you that came around that's the conversations over time that is helpful to us she ready for her yeah you got read you got anything specific just get up and let her know um thank talk your attorneys okay think about the things that we've asked you like the specific time frames and like all the stuff that we don't have on reporing that's what we were wanting to believe me I I'm going to have to that's the stuff you just need to think about and then reach out to your attorneys you have you have said some things you have answered some questions it hasn't been completely useless so there's and and and some of it is I understand the context of a lot of it and they do as well I mean the whole I'll tell you the three of us have done a lot of these and there's times where what I really think you're struggling with is just saying it is just saying and you'll say yeah I was stupid yeah did this yeah but just to say this is the part that I did and this is when I did this and this that's where you're struggling and take time don't let us put it in your mouth right that's what we don't want we want it to come straight from you oh I yeah obviously I I get that and maybe I don't know if we come back down here I don't know where they're going to put you I don't know if we end up bringing you back to hassy but eventually I'm sure we'll sit down again okay so in his trial like would that be like yeah you're going have to come like I'd be called again for yeah you would that work because I've always said in the you know even with my testimony but like that tell the truth hey i' lied before I was trying to protect myself saw exactly what your attorneys did to Le you can prepare yourself I can't I it is but it's going to be the similar you're going to be treated very similarly to what your attorneys did to Lewis I mean they are going to try to tear you apart that's what they're going to do with everything that you say the important thing is if you're telling the truth then you won't have a problem with questions does that make sense if you're lying about something ask you something you can get tripped up easily cuz you're lying about it but if you're telling the truth about what really happened that truth will stick to your memory and you'll be fine and and the whole thing too it's like you know you guys keep saying like that I have like like a pot of gold and do you guys not you guys have heard my conversation see my commentary like I have there's no un like I could have flipped on Charlie from the get from the beginning and it's like he's not supporting anything then why didn't you trip why didn't you flip on him from the beginning because the whole point of it too is for S fro I don't know why like I in my assumption like I said like I was never approached in that way like I never you mean like a two deal like not like even a deal like that but it's just like I just never felt like sh me and nobody's ever going to feel comfortable about it but it's like to even be to the point where it's like these are like the answers that I had were you trying to like also like not want to do anything would hurt some of so that's that's kind of the reason why you didn't is because you didn't want to really hurt him too yeah he was inal and I would have done it right there right after um my mistrial right so you would have had you come forward any information you gave obviously would have hurt SEC FR out that's there was nothing to to protect Charlie nothing to I never it was just toting because you knew that what you're telling us here and what we know is would be detri to exactly okay so I had my M trial and then he was going to be I mean like for my assumption was going to be an appeal so like for me to even like I wanted to speak to him because it's like this is the time now an opportunity for us to finally get this over I didn't want to go back to trial I didn't want to do that all over again this is not just a trial where it's like I'm not on the media like my like I was a constant conversation in that jail and it's like even leading up to that trial like by you saw was by that trial I was I was done I was deflated I was tired I was in confinement in and out red and whites and putting in suicide watch like I was going through it in jail before I was even going to Tri before the trial even started I was exhausted already I wanted it to be over with that's why I wanted I was like you heard my conversation witho I don't know that was one of like I was begging I was like like what like what like why like why are we like why I don't want to go to trial that's it let's talk like I say what I know you say what you know and like this is way more than you know like this is nothing protecting internally or whatever I'm clearly not getting any type of money like my my family is tapped out with everything that's another thing too with the attorney maguana has no intention of shielding Charlie and after the years in prison she is endured she most certainly holds him responsible for her situation if there's any damage she can possibly do at his trial she has more than enough incentive my family isn't because of me having to go to tr and yet people didn't want to let that go it was like oh that he's still a part of it and I get it it's like the story and the how did you get the cost how did you how did you first get the cost the cost of what theost Chris Chris how did you get Chris as an attorney oh I was Tara and Chris came to me that the first time that I met him through um that day that I was in Broward how they come to you why did they come to you cuz cuz of Charlie right right no how did they come to you yeah no he was Tara has always done cases with Chris and so did you hire before that I hir how did you get like how did you know to hire T like was someone refer her to you or what I don't even remember how I got Tara don't you know Charlie's attorney is is in the same office I knew that no that Chris was in the same office yeah he told me that after but I didn't know that he was in that same office I didn't know that no yeah all right was T and then she yes think hard about everything talk your attorneys your turn whichever one you're talking to yeah and I mean I don't know what it's going to be like this is the RN process over here so I don't even know if I'm going to three other places you get up so yeah got to get you out yeah I want too okay bye hang just wait she comes get you would it be possible for me to contact my that's not up to us yeah that's that's to them they make those decisions after her retrial Katherine maguana was found guilty of first degree murder conspiracy and solicitation to commit murder she was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole along with two additional sentences of 30 years that's the end of today's video if you liked what you watched and want to support the channel hit the like button and check out my patreon link in the description thanks again for watching and I'll see you next time