All right, let's roll, nerds. [Music] You look up the diff the uh the difference between a legal entity or a legal person and a natural person. It'll tell you plain and clear there's a difference and what each one is under, what jurisdiction each one is under. The natural person is under the jurisdiction of common law. The legal person is under the jurisdiction of color of law, legality, legal ease. Welcome to facts or frauds. >> Good morning. This is the time and date for a hearing regarding a show cause regarding a uh alleged violation of an order from Judge Stzman. All right, we're continuing with the township's uh case and chief in this matter. Joanne Yoder has completed her testimony. U Mr. Fton, what's next? Uh I would call Alfred E. Yoder to the as my next witness. Mr. Yoder, would you come forward, please? >> Good morning, sir. Are you Alfred E. Yoder? >> Yes, sir. >> All right. I'm going to do the same thing I asked your wife. I know that you don't wish to swear. Uh, but will you affirm that any testimony you're about to give in this matter will be true to the best of your knowledge and belief? >> I affirm. >> All right. Thank you, Mr. Mr. Yoder. Uh, could you state your full name for the record, please? >> Yod. And is it accurate that you also reside uh at 30158 Marsh Road, Colon, Michigan? >> Yes, sir. >> And that particular common address, five-digit address, is to your home. Is that correct? >> Yes, sir. >> And do you agree that 3010 Marsh Road Colon Michigan is the common address for the other structure on that property that was built as a home? Yes, sir. >> So, those two homes and two addresses relate to the same property. Is that correct? >> Correct. >> They're not separate individual parcels. Correct. >> Correct. >> And I'm assuming you're aware. And let me start with this. I I really want to concentrate on everything from March 13, 2025 forward. That being the date that the uh the court entered the default judgment and permanent injunction. You understand that correct? >> Yeah, I know what you were trying to do, but like she said, there's no Mama's House Birthing Center in existence on that date, and that's who you were filing against. So would it be accurate to say uh because you reside there on a daily basis, correct? >> Correct. >> So you're aware that after March 13, 2025, uh your property there continued to be used by pregnant women to temporarily reside there and and give birth. Correct. >> Correct. That is Mama's House Ministry running on a priv private contract. >> But you're aware that it it continued to be used under whatever name it was given at that time. >> Correct. >> Did you take any action to stop that type of activity? No. Because private if you're running a ministry under a private contract, it's legal. So under that explanation, you would continue to allow that property going forward to be used as a >> there has been no burst at that resident since I last talked with Middleton >> and that being towards the end of August, >> correct, >> of this year. you intend to resume births on that property? >> Very good possibility depending on what the outcome is. >> Were you aware that you were to be in court for a show cause hearing on July 2nd of 2025? >> I filed special occurrence papers that you and the judge ignored. >> So the answer to that is >> called sovereign gibberish. Okay. So, the answer is yes. You were aware that you were to be there. >> I did appear with my paperwork on a special appearance and you totally ignored it. >> Okay. Were you there in person before Judge Stzman on July 2nd, 2025? >> Did you say negative? >> Right. >> Meaning no, you weren't. >> Right. And were you aware that the uh default judgment and permanent injunction ordered you to pay Colon Township $26,548 in taxable costs? >> No, because you were you were you were charging a business that doesn't even exist. >> So, would it be more accurate to say you were aware of it? You just didn't dis you disagreed that you owed it because you because of the way it was ordered. >> The way I understood it that is for Mama's house birthing center and there's no mama's birthing center in existence anymore. >> So you're not contending in way any way shape or form that you actually paid Coen Township $26548. >> I did not pay him. No. >> Okay. What do you have a role in the uh second structure on that uh property being used for pregnant women to come there and have births? I mean, do you do you regularly >> honestly? story. Seriously, >> I'm asking. >> I mean, are you the park the cars or do you uh uh clean the rooms or do you mow the grass or the anything that helps the operation of the center? >> The only time I appear there is if something breaks down and needs to be repaired. >> No. >> Okay. So, it's primarily your wife that operates it, correct? She takes care of the building. Correct. >> Okay. >> She's also a midwife, correct? >> Correct. >> So, she also helps take care of the pregnant women that come there to give. >> Correct. That's all I have for Mr. Yod. Mr. Yoder, I'll give you the same opportunity as long as you're there. Is there anything else you'd like to say to me? All right. Thank you, sir. You may step down. >> My next witness, your honor, would be Rhonda Schwarz. >> Good morning. You swear affirm any testimony you're about to give here will be true to the best of your knowledge and belief. All right. Also, affirm, will you uh take a seat and state your name for the record, please? >> Rhonda Miller. >> How do you spell Rhonda? >> R H O N D A. >> Thank you. Mr. Thornton, where are you employed? >> County St. Joseph County Courthouse Clerk's Office. >> Okay. What's your title? >> Deputy Clerk. Um, without going into all the duties of the county clerk's office, uh, is one of the duties of the clerk's office to keep track of, uh, new child births. >> It is >> within St. Joseph County. >> Yes. >> Do you have a role in that? >> Um, I do several I do a lot of the home births. Okay. meaning you keep the records for the home births. >> Um, a lot of the home births we have to you enter in by hand in the computer. >> Okay. >> But you're the one within the county clerk's office that takes the information on homes births. >> I I enjoy doing them, so I always volunteer for them. They're a little bit more work, but any of us can do it, but I I like to do it, so I do it. So you're the one within the office that primarily does this? >> Yes. >> Can you describe that process for us? Uh kind of when when there's a new birth and you get the information on that, what happens? >> Yep. So if there is a home birth, um there's some paperwork that we have to fill out to provide to the state. Um, so it's usually like the midwife who fills it out and they need to sign it to verify it. And then also like the attendant, like if there was a father on hand, he would also sign it. And it gives the weight or gives the weight and the date the child was born. Um, their background a little bit. It's just kind of very information about the parents and about the child and where the child where they were born. which is essentially on every birth certificate. >> And what what do you receive then from whoever was present at the birth that provides you the information? Is there a particular document you receive? >> Yep. There's a uh we have a form from the state that they provide and that um we give it to um anybody if they had a home birth it has to be filled out. It's like a facility worksheet um and they just have to fill in the questions for us to provide for the state. If >> I may approach you. >> Yes. >> I put two documents in front of you. Can you describe each one? >> Yep. The first one is the live birth um certificate worksheet. Um it says a local registered state use only. So this is what like a midwife would fill out. Um or if the mom or whoever has a home birth, they need to fill this part out. So this goes to the state. This information is always go to the state and we give the state a copy also. >> Okay. >> And the second one is a facility worksheet for the live birth. This has things like where was the child born. It's just um and the father can fill this out or also the midwife or whoever attended um whoever had who was at the the birth neighbor you know whoever was there attended and they just have to verify that and fill out some information um if they know the answers to this. Some of it's medical questions. So um we also provide that from the state. For each birth, do you receive both of those forms? >> Yes. >> I'd ask that please be marked the pl exhibits one and two with the uh live birth worksheet being number one and the facility worksheet for live birth number two. So that's the first. >> All right, Mr. Mrs. Yoder, these are simply the forms that uh the clerk has described that you use. Uh do you have any objection to those being admitted as an exhibit? Mr. Yod expressed no. That's number that's number two. No, wait a minute. I get it backwards. That's number one. That's the library worksheet. This facility worksheet is number two. >> They are admitted. >> So, it's those two forms that your office takes in the county clerk's office. Correct. >> That is correct. And then what happens then when once you receive those forms, what do you do? >> Um, so then we go on to our state website and then we enter the information into them and we also scan the forms into the state website so they have the actual form themselves. So then from there we can generate a birth certificate if we have all the information on the worksheets. Great. And the birth certificates and uh are essentially private documents. Correct. >> Yes. Very private. >> You do not hand those out to the public. >> That is correct. >> They have a lot of private information in them. >> Yes. >> As part of preparation uh for today, I asked you to prepare a report. Is that correct? >> Yes. And uh more specifically, I asked you to prepare a report of how many birth records you had from Mama's House Birth Center andor Mama's House Ministry. Is that accurate? >> Yes. >> And the time period I gave you was from March 13 of 2025 through the most current you had. Is that correct? >> Yes. >> And did you prepare such a report? >> Yes. >> And for the record, I'm going to hand uh the Yoders a copy of what I'm going to be handing as Miller. Is that the report you prepared pursuant to my request? >> Yes, we had um Yes. And essentially it' be more accurate to say I sent your office a subpoena for the records. Correct. >> Yes. >> Can you explain I'm going to provide that so that the court can follow along the copy. >> Thank you. Can you explain what these are and I guess where you're starting because I've handed you a a two-page document and a one-page document. Could you could you explain this report and and how you produced it? >> Um so the first one is the daily birth log that has the two pages to it. This is um we have to go on to the state website and um run a report. We can run it from the date that you had suggested. It was 3:13 to 9:23 um yesterday. And um we have to put in like a range and it'll pull up from the address. I believe we ran it because at um we had Mama's House and then we had Mama's House Ministry. So we had to run it with the to get all the bursts of that error that time we had to um run it by the address I believe. >> So hence the two pages the first page would it be accurate to say is the contains the address 3010 Marsh Road. >> Yes. >> And the second page contains an address of uh R002. I believe that has to do with rural route. >> It was like R R00001 and then Marsh Road and then something after the address like that. So when they put it on it was that was different how they worded it on the worksheet when it was up. But the the bursts on this report uh you have no question are all originating from uh the Yoders's property on Marsh Road. Is that correct? And essentially the 301000 Marsh Road >> um that home with that address. >> That is correct. >> Okay. So what does this report tell us? How many bursts were there between uh March 13 of 2025 and today's date? >> Yep. A total of 79. There was 75 in the first one and four on the next page. >> Okay. And what is the third or the single page? First per week it's titled. >> Yep. So this one just gives um from that date also we listed um how many bursts there was per week that we received. Um and this one has uh eight pending and so this one has 87 total because there was eight that we had to return back that we were missing some information on. So we turned those back. So that would have been we didn't get those to the state. Um so that way that says 87 instead of 87 amen. So, so you're waiting uh for more up-to-date or more complete information before those get sent on to the state? >> Yes. >> Okay. So, the bursts per week indicate how many bursts occurred at 30100 Marsh Road, Colon, Michigan, um from March 13 on through today's date. Correct. >> Correct. as reported on the forms that that uh were admitted as exhibits one and two. >> Yes. >> I'd move for admission of those as uh one exhibit, your honor. PL exhibit three. Mr. Mrs. Yod, do you have any objection to the admission of the clerk's report regarding the burst? I would note there's no births reported after September 1. Um oh wait a minute. Uh I guess possibly up to September 6th. Uh but uh the rest of September is zero births. Uh hearing no objection. And I'm going to have you mark this as exhibit number three. [Music] >> I mean, the court hasn't admitted it. >> Thank you. >> Have you also uh since March 13 of 2025, have you had any conversations directly with Joanne Yoder uh regarding the bursts that occurring on her property? >> I do. If I have a a question, if something's not filled out correct on the worksheet, I I call her. We It's just short conversation. She'll answer the question and Yeah. Yeah. Probably about three >> within that time. >> And does Joanne Yoder sign some of those worksheets uh that you get? >> Yes. >> Does she sign most of them? >> Um if yes, whoever fills that out, they're the midwife of that. Um the reason they sign it if if they're unlicensed they sign that and so if she was there at that birth and then she would be the one signing that. So it's accurate to say that each one of these 79 bursts represented uh an exhibit three. Uh your office received fill out worksheets for all of those bursts. Um there's some in there that was performed at the birthing center, but um they're licensed midwives, so they do it through the computer. So we don't get just a few of them are licensed midwives. They can already put it into the uh state. So we wouldn't get burst on those if they're licensed midwives. >> Okay. So those were the information was given to you electronically, not on a paper. >> Correct. electronically. >> That's all I have. Your honor, for Miss Miller, >> is there a delay? Uh, for example, uh, if we just pick a week, uh, June 29th to July 5th, three births. Does that mean the children were born between those dates or that's when the reports were filed? No, that would be um I think this is the actual birth birth date. >> All right. >> The point runs by the birth date. >> Okay. There were two births between uh August 31st and July or September 6th and then none thereafter. Is that what the report shows? >> Yes. >> All right. Thank you. TA 3 is admitted. Do you either of you have any questions for Miss Miller? >> Negative. >> All right. Thank you. You may step down. >> The next witness, your honor, I would call would be uh Joseph Klein. >> Good morning, sir. >> I swear affirming testimony you're about to give in this matter will be true to the best of the knowledge and >> I do. >> Thank you. Uh please have a seat. State your name and spell your first and last name. First name is Forest L R E S T. Last name Klein K L I N E. Most people in the court know me as Joe Klein. Middle name is Joseph. >> Thank you. >> Can you uh state your uh do you have a position with Coen Township? >> I do. I'm administrator. >> Uh and who's your direct employer? Safe Build. >> Is that Safe Build Incorporated? >> Yes. >> It's a building code in and municipal services company. >> Correct. Full service building company. Yes. >> And Safeville has a contract with Coen Township. >> Correct. >> To provide building code services and zoning administrator services and ordinance enforcement services. Is that correct? >> That is correct. >> How long have you been the uh zoning administrator? six years in June, I think it was. >> Are you familiar with the uh Alfred and Joanne Yoders properties on Marsh Road? >> I am. Yes. >> Would that include 30158 Marsh Road and 3010 Marsh Road? >> Correct. Yes. >> Have you been to those properties? >> I have. Yes. Have you handled zoning permit requests for those properties? >> I have. Yes. >> As as part of your position as zoning administrator, have you been inside the structure home that uh has the common address of 30100 Marsh Road? >> I have. Yes. On one occasion. >> Approximately. When was that? Um, it was a few months ago. >> And is it accurate to say that the the Yoders allowed us to come and take a look of what was happening there at that address? >> Yes, they did. They allowed us to come in the residence and spoke to us uh in the residence. Yes. As in preparation for today's hearing, I asked you to run what we commonly referred to as the uh fetch documents for the odor's properties. Is that correct? >> That is correct. >> Did you do that? >> I did. >> I approached your honor. >> Yes. Are those um actually I'm going to let you do it. How did how did you are those the documents you produced pursuant to my request? >> Those are Yes. I got in the St. Joe County Patches website which is reflects records with parcel IDs and owner information um along with various other property information. And yes, I got on that website. I printed these off uh this morning for report. And how many reports are there? >> There are two here. >> And which parcels by parcel number are you? And when you give the parcel number also give the comment address that goes with that. >> Okay. So parcel number 002 021 006 05 also known as 3 0158 Marsh Road and I believe it's also 30100 Marsh Road as well. >> That's the one you've been here this morning. You've heard the testimony. That's the parcel with the two homes on it essentially. >> Correct. Yes. >> One being Mr. and Mrs. Yoders's residence, their home, and the other being the 3010 Marsh Road that's used as the birthing center. >> Correct. My understanding is the the birthing center is the west structure and their actual home is the east structure on that parcel. >> There are other outuildings on the parcel, but these are the two homes on that. Correct. >> I do not have extra copies of those, your honor. >> That's fine. I thought it would be um so I can show them to the odors, but I would move for admission of those as exhibits four and five. They're just public records in the county. Correct. >> A geographical system of all parcels. U this is essentially an aerial picture of your house. Do you have any objection to that? >> Negative. I would ask that the 05 be exhibit four and the 10 uh exhibit five and I'm referring to the last two digits in the park. >> Yes. >> So, >> that's exhibit four. Just for clarification purposes, and I can give you the exhibits back if you need them. the the parcel number ending in 10. Which one is that? That's not 30158 or 3010 0. Correct. Let me just give you this is the one I'm talking about that ends in two digits. >> That is correct. That is not correct. >> What What is that? >> That is of a new parcel that was divided off the main parcel. Um I would have to look at the days to see that was done. It was sometime in the last I think two years or so. Um so that's its own separate parcel for a new structure. So in short that is the parcel just for reference that is the subject of the other case that Colon Township has with the odors. That's case number 25-533- CZ. >> That is correct. That is for that. Yes. All right. Exhibits four and five are admitted. Um, one describes the house of the Yoders and the building that houses the birthing center. One is a house just down the road which houses a new structure that was under construction. Yes, Miss Yo, just a minute. Miss Yod, you have a question. >> So, a question had Joe about entering the 3010 0. That was against our will, very illegally done, but attorney David Marvin was working with us. We had him helping us, and he he knew that we wanted to work in peace. And so he said that he feels that um if we let Lance come in and see for himself that this is all legal and and it's everything is well taken care of that we can work in peace. So that's the only reason we agreed because we wanted to work in peace. >> All right. This was >> still being we are still being harassed. So this was in 2025. >> Yes. >> Negative. >> 2024. >> No, this was December. >> That would have been like December of 23. >> All right. So at that time, David Marvin was the county prosecuting attorney. >> That was right just before he moved up north. >> I can confirm that I did have discussions with David Marvin about this matter. uh he his official uh he was communicating with me and corresponding with me. He officially said he wasn't formally representing the Yoders, but he was uh talking to them. Well, I would also state that uh any implication that Mr. Klein or myself and I was there too uh entered without permission or against their will is just inaccurate. We would have never entered Well, it may be a matter of perception, but obviously you weren't illegal entry. Uh, but Mr. Marvin was the county prosecuting attorney at the time this took place. He was county prosecuting attorney until December 31. I would have to go back and look at that correspondence dates and and uh those things. I I don't believe so. I think he had finished by the time he started corresponding with me. So it would have been sometime after January 1 >> to the best of my recollection because he was I know he told me he was planning on moving up north at the time and he was getting ready to move up north. >> Well, he didn't come to work for the last couple of months. Uh he wasn't here maybe in November or December. >> Could have been during that period of time. I would have to check. >> Miss uh Yodor, you've got some input on this. >> July. It was in January. Was it January? All right. That been after his term ended >> last year. >> Oh, January of 2024, >> I think. So, >> probably this has been going on for a long time already. >> All right. Well, all right. >> I guess isn't crucial. Well, I was just surprised that he would be I didn't know if he was doing this in his role as county prosecutor or as advisory council and whether he was still prosecutor or not. I guess it doesn't matter. The point is uh maybe you weren't real pleased about it, but under the advice of Mr. Marvin, you let them come in and inspect the premises. So, >> your honor, sir. >> Yes. Like she said, we tried to work in peace, work with a little bit of common sense with these guys, >> and you can see how far we've got. >> We did hire David Marvin for an attorney. >> All right. >> But he moved out now. >> Yes, he moved to Mason County, but I don't think he's there anymore. I'm not sure where he is now, but uh >> he's not here in our county. All right. So, you paid him money to represent you. >> All right, let's proceed. Uh, Mr. Klein, when is the last time you were out at the Marsh Road properties? >> Um, on the actual property itself? >> No, just or even driving by. say it would be it's probably been probably a few months since I've actually been by the property itself. >> Okay. >> I I did ask an associate to go by there recently and and um verify some things for me from the road, but I have not been out there myself in a few months probably. >> Okay. in uh is uh part of preparation for today. Did you uh locate anything on social media to do with Mama's House? >> I did. I did look and see what was still floating around out there and um uh there is a a main uh internet page that still says Mama's Birthing Center on it. When you open the link, it does take you to the I believe it's mama's ministry uh mama's mama's birth birthing and mama's ministry or something along that line for a title. >> Oh my god. >> Yes. >> That has nothing to do with us doing something. Whoever is doing that, if someone's looking on social media, there's a lot of false things out there. As far as debt, we don't I don't even own a computer. >> All right. So, you don't run a website. >> I run nothing. I don't do no advertising whatsoever. >> All right. Thank you. >> So, whoever has that posted, I have no idea. It's not got anything to do with me. >> Mr. Pine is Did you Did you run a screenshot of what you found and where did you find it? Uh, it was a local internet search, a Google search, and yeah, this was at 8:04 a.m. this morning that that I located that. And then when I open the link, it says B ministries, uh, Mama's House of Ministries, and then it just goes on with the more uh, literature and um, pictures of of the inside of the building and whatnot. I was thinking for admission that this is exhibit six just based it just solely on the [Music] but it's out there on social media. Well, for what it's worth, I take Mrs. Yoders's under oath. She doesn't run this website. Uh doesn't even really know about it, but apparently it is on there. If somebody was to do a Google search, uh this is what they would find. So for that purpose I'll allow it and it's admitted as exhibit number six. >> Your honor. >> Yes. >> Is there a possible way we can find out who would have posted something like that? >> Maybe somebody can. I'm not computer literate enough to do it. Uh Facebook uh is a >> deceiving thing. a I'm not on it, but uh it's a thing unto itself. For example, there is a apparently a Judge Middleton Facebook page. I've never been to it. Um somebody operates it, but I'm not really sure who it is. I don't look at it because I just I don't know. I don't want to know what people are saying about me. I guess I can't see how that can be held against us. >> Well, I'm not holding it against you. I'm just saying this is what would be found. For example, if somebody posts something on my Facebook page, um I'm not responsible for it. Someone posted a picture. I didn't see it. My wife did. And Joan were happy about it. A picture of me standing with another lady on the beach. I was wearing a winter coat. Um, I had a picture taken with someone when I was walking down the street here in Centerville and she photoshopped me and her on the beach in Florida or something, but I was never there with her. Um, if I was in the beach in Florida, hopefully I wouldn't be wearing a winter coat. But anyway, uh, yes, I'm not holding this against you. I'm simply noting that it exists. As far as I know, the people that go to my site are very kind. I don't I don't go there myself. >> That's all the questions I have for this one, Miss. >> All right. Um I have a couple. I'm late to the game here. Um, there were a lot of things that were decided before I got here. And, uh, my first knowledge of this was when I saw a number of people at a county commission meeting, uh, the night we did our annual report and they were expressing their support for Mama's House uh, at the commissioner's meeting, just in the public comment section. Before that, I didn't hear anything about it. that I inherited it later. My understanding is the gist of this this is not an action by the state department of public health uh any issue of licensing uh the state of Michigan or the attorney general has no involvement in this case. This is simply colon townships enforcement action. Is that correct? >> That is accurate. >> All right. And I don't know whether there ever was any that's a question that's I've always had. Uh is there any sort of state licensing oversight here? But that isn't it. So the primary issue are a couple is one of the issues Mr. Klein that there are two houses on the same piece of property. >> No. um that is allowed in Col Township um under certain circumstances and I believe these meet that criteria. The problem is the the zoning for the agricultural district doesn't allow for the >> That was my next question. In many townships, you can't put two houses on the same piece of property. You can't share a well. You can't share a septic system. Each one needs their own. So that's not one of the violations. >> Yeah, that is correct. The crux of this is that that portion of Coland Township is zoned agricultural and this is not an agricultural use. So it's outside the zoned uh designation for this property. >> Correct. >> Which is what the whole thing rests on >> primarily. It's the use. Yes. The use is just not allowed in that district. your honor. >> Yes, sir. >> I I'd like to have that somewhat explained because Colon Township said you can't do it. No, I should say Lance Thornton said you can't do it. But if you go on the Colon Township map and if you look for commercial businesses in the agricultural district, there's like four of them within two miles of them. That's like 2 acres. >> Okay. Um that may be true. That ship is sailed. Um Judge Stutzman made a ruling on this that said you can't do it anymore as of March 13. Um that's where I've come into the game. Uh I'm the zoning guy. You were at the hearing. At some point the township didn't want me to handle this and they asked me to uh be removed and I denied it. I do zoning hearings in every village and township in the county. Um and uh the each township or village may do things differently. Uh, and I see routinely where I am doing a zoning enforcement case, but I know that two miles down the road is a property that's even worse, and I'm not dealing with that property. I'm dealing with the one that's in front of me. Um, so I don't know whether there are other nonconforming uses out in the township that aren't uh before me. All I know is this one was brought to Judge Stman. Uh the township argued that this enterprise does not fit within the zoning uh description for this parcel and they're asking to enjoin it and he did. He said you can't do it anymore. Um and then they contend that you continued to do it after he said don't do it anymore. That's what we're here now. I've said more than once that you could have benefited and you could benefit from legal counsel. Mr. Marvin was apparently in the picture for a bit. Um so once the judgment once the default entered you would have had an opportunity to move to set the default aside or ask for a reharing. Those things weren't done. That was in March. So that order stands. Um, Judge Stzman in a circuit court order says you can't do it and you can't do it apparently because the township does not allow this sort of enterprise in that agricultural district. it isn't done at least under these purposes because they allege that it's unsanitary or it's not properly uh set up with well and septic or removal of medical waste or any of those issues. It's simply if your neighbor came and wanted to set a birthing center up across the street, the township would say you can't put a birthing center in that location. Um, apparently this has been here for a long time. Um, there may have been some argument that it was grandfathered or preceded the zoning. I don't know about that. All I know is the order is in effect and it's not been set aside and Judge Studsman said you can't do it and uh that's where we start. So you may have had defenses but they weren't presented and uh there apparently they aren't saying you can't do this, you just can't do it there. I was surprised that there is not some sort of state licensing requirement that if I wanted to start Jeff Middleton's birthing center uh in Park Township, I could put up a building and do it. Um I had naively assumed that there needed to be some sort of state licensing to do this. Uh but babies have been born long before there was ever any township ordinance or before there were even hospitals. Um, so some of your uh views on this um I understand where you're coming from, but they weren't ever properly raised and they weren't ever moved to set aside the order. So the order is in effect and you have a right to appeal that to the court of appeals. But I think the time limit for that is probably passed. So you'd have to ask for leave. So you can't do this because Colon Soundship says you can't do this in an agricultural district. And um Judge Stutzman agreed and ordered entered an order that said you can't. Now, I don't One of the things you cited in the Michigan Constitution is the governmental interest and is there a compelling governmental interest to not put a birthing center in the middle of an agricultural district? And arguably the answer to that is yes. This property is about as much in the middle of nowhere as you can get to in St. Joseph County. It's not easily accessible to ambulance or fire service. It's got dirt roads. Um, it's not It's in the middle of corn country. St. Joe County is about 74% agricultural. About 70 44% of the land is farmland and you're right in the middle of it. About 5% of it is surface water. So the roads and the rest of us live in the other 20%. Um, I guess they're arguing this should be if anywhere in the other 20%. Uh, so anyway, I'm here to enforce Judge Stman's order of March 13. Um, and it's in effect whether you like it or I like it. Uh, that's the order. >> Mr. I have no other additional questions for Excuse me after I vented there. >> Mr. uh or Mrs. Yoder, do you have any questions for Mr. Klein? >> Uh yeah, he's sitting there as a witness. And from my understanding from the Poas that have been filled out, he doesn't even have a valid oath of office. And if you look in the attorney general letter, it is my opinion therefore that this city building inspectors and zoning enforcement personnel are not authorized by law to issue and serve with current tickets upon persons who violate the building code adorning ordinance of a city. It is my further opinion city building inspectors and zoning enforcement personnel may not be empowered to do so by city ordinance or further position. That was from the attorney general. >> That's an interesting uh piece of information. Again, that ship is sailed. >> He's sitting there. >> Oh, well, he certainly can testify. Um, some villages and townships actually appoint their uh zoning administrators, and I think what they probably did is appoint his company as the zoning administrator. Um, but again, that ship sailed a long time ago. >> He's not carrying an oath of office. You got no right to >> Well, you may have had a right to raise that objection some time ago, but the order's already entered. Um, and you haven't moved to set it aside, and there's been no move to set aside the default. That hasn't been appealed. So, that issue isn't before me. He issued you some citations. Uh, now very late in the game. you're raising this which is one of the reasons why I've always believed you could have benefited from legitimate licensed legal counsel. Mr. Klein, you can step down. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> My next and last witness for this matter uh is Teresa Oley. >> All right. Just a minute. Uh are you guys good? Can we go on till noon? Do you need a recess? Your honor, your honor, I respectfully note our objection for the record and reserve all rights to appeal. >> All right, that I respect that. Now you've made your objection. It's noted for the record and you reserve your right to appeal. Mrs. Yoder, do you need a recess? All right, then. Uh, we'll continue. Thank you. Good morning. >> Please raise your right hand. You swear or affirm any testimony you're about to give in this matter will be true to the best of your knowledge and belief. >> I >> affirm. All right. Thank you. Uh would you state your name for the record, please? >> Teresa. >> How do you spell Teresa? >> T E R E S A. and >> O WS L E Y. >> Thank you. Please have a seat. >> This should be brief, Missy. Um, what's your uh you have a position with Coen Township, correct? >> I do. Yes. >> What is that position? >> I am the township treasurer. So, as township treasurer, you keep track of what comes in and goes out as far as financial transactions for Colon Township. Is that correct? >> As part of your duty, as part of preparation for today, I ask you to take a look at the township records. Is that correct? >> Yes, it is. >> Essentially from March 13, 2025 forward. Is that accurate? >> Yes. And I ask you to check those records to see if the yoders had paid or anybody had paid on the odor's behalf the $26548 in taxable costs ordered as part of the default judgment. Correct. >> Correct. >> Did you do that? Did you take a look at all the records? I did and I even searched by name and there was there weren't no records saying that they had paid. >> So as treasur of Coen Township, you have no record that uh the odors nor anyone on their behalf that paid the $26548 in taxable costs ordered in the judgment. >> That's all I have. >> All right. Thank you. And I think the Yodors confirm that. All right. Thank you. You may step down. That's all I have. Your honor, for witnesses, your honor. If >> I'm not mistaken, that was another witness without an valid post of office. >> Uh I don't know whether she has one or not. I think most township >> from the PO that were pulled. No. >> Well, she testified to something that you agree with. You didn't pay it, >> but she was used as a witness. Well, you don't need to have an oath of office to be sworn as a witness. If you're standing on a street corner and you're watching an accident occur, they can subpoena you to tell what you saw. Um, any lay person is entitled to testify uh to items within their knowledge. So, although you can claim she doesn't have an oath of office, I do, by the way, uh, and have had one for 46 years. Um, but uh, all right. I'll note your objection on that as well. Uh, all right. No further testimony from the township. >> That's correct. >> All right. Mr. and Mrs. Yoder, the township has rested their case. You have an opportunity to tell me anything you want me to know. You don't have to. Um a after we do this, we're going to take about a 10-minute break and then he's going to argue. He's going to tell me what he wants me to do and then you can respond to that in argument. Um is there any other evidence you want me to have here this morning? >> Negative. >> All right, let's take a short recess. We'll come back a quarter after 11. Uh, the township will tell me what they're asking for and then you can respond to that. >> Hi. Well, that's just about it. So, so thanks for watching and we'll see you again real soon. And thanks for hanging out with us on Facts or Frauds. Make sure you hit the thumbs up button, you're subscribed, and ring that bell. Also, leave a comment in the comments section telling me what you think. Actually, I wish you could see the studio floor right now. There's nowhere more fascinating after a show. Everyone's so busy like like bees or white Anglo-Saxon Protestants. And a huge thank you to all of our Facts or Frauds channel members. [Music] If you'd like to become a member, click on the link in the description or click join right next to subscribe. [Applause] There's electricians all rolling up their cables. Whoops. Sorry, guys. And there's the sound technicians unplugging all the microphones. Okay, if I keep mine on for a minute, Na'vi, stand up. Now, if you're still hanging out, thank you. I appreciate you all. Why not hit the thumbs up button, make sure you subscribed, ring the bell, and leave a comment in the comment section. and tell them what you think. Until next time, I'll see you soon. And of course, there's lots of the producers friends all excited, waiting to meet the stars, and generally getting in everybody's way, just like our producer. Oh, we don't mind. Oh, and not forgetting the prop guys. They're busy striking the set. That's an interesting little point there. Striking. 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