[Music] [Music] and welcome to facts or frauds. [Music] City of Detroit um versus Christopher Gray. Case numbers uh SB1357945 counts one two and three. SP119 85 counts one and counts two. SP1629749 counts one and counts two. SP1 2678 65 counts one and counts two and counts three. For the record, please state your name for the record, please. >> Christopher Lamar Gray. >> All right. Today is the date and time set for a pre-trial and then there's warrants on the other matters. I'm going to enter not guilty plea on your behalf. I'm going to give you a Z bond and I'll recall those warrants. What is your motion, sir? Uh, >> I have a motion uh to strike and dismiss. What are the basis? >> Uh basis of uh federal rules proced federal rules of civil procedure. Um number one, there is there's no claim. There is no there's no ratification of the claim. >> There is a claim. There isn't there is there is a you want me to read out the you I I I wave the reading of the information. Do you want me to read the the uh the allegations that have been made into the record? Do you need me to do that? >> No, I don't. No, I don't. Your honor, >> deny. I deny your motion on that basis. >> What else do you have to say? >> You um >> You deny my motion because of what, your honor? There is no real >> I denied your motion because there is a uh uh and and this is criminal procedure, not civil procedure. But I denied your motion because there is a there is an allegation here. >> There there is there you're saying your honor, you're saying this is a criminal matter. >> Yes. >> Okay. Well, then there's we need the corpus delect eye. And so that's what I'm asking for. If there was a criminal matter, basically what you're telling me is that something has happened. Someone has either been damaged or someone has been been or or either someone has been damaged or someone has something something has been been come up missing. And if that's the case then that means that there is a crime and if there's a crime then there is the the what do you have that's saying that I did the crime? What you're saying that I created this crime that hurt this person and if I hurt this person and I created the crime then you are the third third thing that you have to have is the identification of the person. You have the identification of the person which is me but you don't have a person saying that they were hurt or damaged or the crime that's saying what I did to hurt or damage the person. So how do you so how do you have a crime? >> Okay. You you went to law school? >> No your honor. I have not. >> And you where did you where did you get that? Where did you get that from? Where did you >> I' I've been I've been studying for quite some time trying to understand what's going on. Um I I have a different perspective as to what's being hap what's being what's being um what's being said that happened. Um, I'm understanding more the the the procedure that is necessary for a crime to go for for there for them to bring a crime forward. I'm I'm I'm understanding that a bit more. >> And where did you get that understanding? >> Um, I've done some Cornell law studies. I've also um sat down with a couple of friends who have had some issues. Um, I picked up uh wherever I could just started to study the law. I just started to go back through Cornell law started to figure out what was going on and to and to understand the nature of of of how crimes what a crime is and and everything else >> for just a course of me searching it out. >> And you're citing Cornell law for all of that that you just said to the court? >> No. What I did, your honor, was I realized that one of the biggest portions that you have to have is you have to have the corpus delecti and that is in that is in when you're being charged criminally. >> What is a corpus delecti? >> What do you mean what is the corpus delecti? >> What is what is your understanding of what corpus delecti is? >> That is that is the the corpus delecti is the is the law that's saying that there is a crime that's being committed. So in order to do that you have to prove you have to show the corporate delect eye which is you saying this is what happened. This is how this person was damaged. There is no officer on this day on these dates because I I got a lot of >> I I object the officer works I apologize your honor. I apologize your honor. My apologies. officer says that um you you drove a vehicle that wasn't registered and wasn't titled uh or or titled and or untitled that you drove without a valid driver's license, that you drove without valid insurance. Again, on a different occasion, they alleged that you drove without a valid driver's license and no insurance. And then on a different occasion, they alleged that you drove without unregistered or untitled or or both or or and drove without a valid driver's license, repeat offender, that you fa failed to uh have a trailer plate and that you failed to secure a load on your vehicle. And uh on another on another occasion on on the same occasion that you felt secure that they alleged you felt secure to blow belt to have a trailer plate on your vehicle that you didn't provide a valid driver's license. So those are the crimes and in state of Michigan whether you agree or not they are crimes. So based on your motion and all of that stuff you talk about corpus delect eye and things like that the court denies the motion. Okay, based on most reasons I just said now how do you want to move forward because wait a minute I'm not finished. My apologies. Your honor, >> you want to move forward because in my experience, someone that comes into court as you do, um, you do not want to take an offer. You do not believe that you need to have plates or or registration or insurance and you just disregard all of that portion of the law and uh either you are going to move forward by having a a trial or you're going to take a deal. What do you want to do, sir? >> Your honor, uh, first I want to put my objection on the record. >> Objection. Whatever your objection is is noted. What do you want to do, sir? You want a trial? I ask You have two You have two options. Trial or you want to take a deal? >> Your honor, I request a jury trial. >> A jury trial. >> A jury trial? Yes, your honor. >> Very well, Miss Matthysse, I need a jury trial date. Please. >> And if I may, your honor, what time is Mr. Gray presently docketed? >> I don't even think it matters, but I'll tell you, I don't think it matters. He's got um the newer cases and and the older cases are pre-trial at 8:35, Christopher Lamar Gray, and then he had some in warrant status. I count it 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 cases into the record. >> You know what I want to ask Mr. Gray and you can choose to answer it or not. Yes, your honor. But what I summize and what I've heard and I don't know if you're you're you're alleging the same thing is that the and you basically did allege the same thing that no crime has been committed because no person has been uh uh uh uh you you know the people of the state of Michigan are in danger of you driving without the proper documentation or anything like that. Um, but I don't and and I'm gonna I'm gonna surmise and you can correct me if I'm wrong that you're gonna say that that there's no jurisdiction to to be able to pull you over because no one has um has uh been injured. Is that correct? Um, I think that what I'm saying is that the city of Detroit had an officer pull me over to say that you're not following these rules. And my stance is, okay, well then that's fine. If we're following rules, then therefore let me make sure that you as well as are following the rules because if I don't do that, then freedoms are lost. So that is in which that is the way that I proceed to say, okay, well then if we're playing cards and we playing show me yours, if this is your hand, then this is mine and let's proceed accordingly to the law. That's only this is only this is that's it. That's that's my only standing is if someone doesn't stand up every once in a while and define the edges, then they all disintegrate and people lose people lose rights. >> And and you know something, with that being said, I would agree with you a thousand%. That's why I pride myself and I hope I'm doing a good job for the citizens that come in here and the police for that matter and prosecution that I am calling the balls and strikes right and if something doesn't proceed as it should then I will dismiss the case one way or the other. But in my short time on this bench and in my time in practice in law as a defense attorney, I get this, you know, they can't pull me over. I've heard the corpus delecti. First time the civil procedure has been thrown at me. Uh but from my un from the way I see it is that you just don't feel that the police have a jurisdiction to pull you over for these issues. Is that correct? >> Do I have the what? Again, your honor, what I feel is that if we are following rules that if I have to follow the rules and every person out there, all of these officers, everybody else has to follow the rules. So, so what I'm what I'm going to hope that you do by the time you come back on the trial date is jury trial date is going to be January I mean strike that March the 18th, 2025. >> Thank you, Ron. >> You're going to you're probably going to have an audience because everybody follows me on these on these cases all the time. >> I I I understand. >> All right. And I don't know if that's what you want, but we're going to we're going to that >> January July the March the 18, 2025. We're going to have a final pre-trial date. Final pre-trial. This is to you, Mr. Bowman, especially the day before on January I mean February 17th, 2025 at 8:30. So, Mr. Gray and Mr. Uh uh Bowman, I need you, Mr. Bowman, I need you to have all your officers appear on that date. Who's ever going to uh state uh their these allegations so that we know that this we're not just summoning the people of the city of Detroit to a jury that's not actually going to uh go. So all parties must appear and that that can be via Zoom and the trial is going to be in person. All right. All parties must appear on final pre-trial date and obviously on the trial date. Um, and what I would what I would implore you to do is you need to figure out the right game because it doesn't sound like you're playing the right game. >> I understand, your honor. Um, I appreciate, first and foremost, let me say I appreciate uh the dialogue. I appreciate you you sitting here and and and engaging with me at this level. So, I recognize what you're saying and um so I guess it's it's to the table we go. So, >> yeah, but get your game in order because I'm just giving you a little heads up. If you come in with that game on the jury trial date, >> then more than likely you'll lose unless you can find some one of those jurors or a couple of those jurors or even all of them to have some sympathy for you, sir. I don't know. I got a I got a whole basis for understanding and and so yeah, if you know it it >> well that basis that you outlined shortly today is not is not >> what was what was what was flawed in my pre what what was flawed your your honor? What is >> we already discussed it? We already discussed it. The the the federal rules of civil procedure that you brought up as a motion to dismiss not not the right basis. the um the corpus delecti. They do have a corpus delecti. They do have a crime that they say has been committed. And if you read the MCL, the Michigan court rules, and the Michigan statutes, then you'll see those crimes outlined there. They have them on the tickets. They they got the they got the the the uh statute numbers that are on the tickets. So, that's not the right basis. So, you're you're you're in a whole different ball game. and you need to come on to this ball game here. >> Okay. All right. Okay. Well, I guess we we we will have that discussion again. Um I appreciate it. I also want to uh say um I recognize and honor your compassion that you sit on the bench with. Um I I see it um as you go out here and you you judge our people. And so for all of that, um, kudos, man. That's for where you sit. That's I appreciate that. Thank you, sir. Appreciate it. >> I app I appreciate that, Mr. Gray. Happy holiday season, sir. And best of luck to you. I'll see you back on March the 17th, 2025 at 8:30 for a final pre-trial. And let me say this, let me add to the motions. If there's any motions, those motions need to be in writing. >> Within 10 days, >> let's put let's put that on the record to a motion. Those motions need to be in writing. Have those motions to the court by February 14, 2020. and the response if the uh will be February 21st, 2025. And I'll rule on those motions on the final pre-trial date of 317, 2025. Again, all parties, Mr. Bman. All right. >> Appreciate it. Happy holiday, your honor. >> You're muted, Mr. Bowman. >> Motion date. >> Motion date is final retrial date of March 17th. >> Thank you, Mr. anything to add. >> Thank you, your honor. But let me make sure that my dates are correct if I may. So, the final pre-trial date where everyone is present is on March 17th. >> March 17, 2025 at 8:30. >> And the trial >> the trial date is is March 18, 25. >> Yes. And that is in person, >> right? And the uh the uh motion date filing is 214. The reply date is 221. All right. Thank you. >> Detroit versus Christopher Gray. Case number SP1357945 counts one two and three. SP1 1 91985 counts one and count two. SP 1629749 counts one and counts two. SP1267865 counts 1 2 and three and appearance for the record please. >> Sherica Harris on behalf of Mr. Gray. Please state your name for the Mr. Gray is appearing under a special appearance. Mr. Gray is appearing um at pro. >> Okay. Mr. Gray, >> strike that appearance. Thank you. >> State your name, Mr. Gray, for the record, please. Um, by special appearance, I'm here to fear for Christopher Demar Gray. >> All right. Today is the date and time set for a show cause. Mr. Gray, you missed the court date, sir. >> I apologize. I apologize, your honor. Um, I made every attempt to to to get in. I didn't see my name on the on the docket when my what I assumed was my date. So, I don't know how I I lost um track of that. I do apologize, your honor. And >> Okay. So, so your name is Christopher Gray. Is that correct? >> My name My name >> That's what you just Wait a minute. Let me let me just say what you appearing. >> Let me just say what you just said. I didn't see my name on the docket. >> I'm the I'm the trustee for for for for the account. >> Weird. >> So for for that for that, >> I'm I'm I'm gonna call you Christopher Gray because that's what we're looking for. And then um I'm going to enter a not guilty plea on your behalf. I'm going to give you a Z bond. >> Okay. Objection, your honor. I I would like I would like for the record um I reserve my right not to be compelled to perform on any contract, commercial agreement that I didn't enter knowingly, voluntarily inter intertentionally and I furthermore do not accept any liability or compelled or otherwise for any contracts that I did not know that I became a part of because of a license or anything else, your honor. So, um I I I object. Um and um for the record, the state can't be named a party in this in this in this suit. Um I asked that I put a motion uh before the court. I didn't get a ruling on that motion. I asked the court rule on my motion. >> What is your motion? What is your motion? I haven't seen any I haven't seen any motion. What is your motion? >> I have a motion to dismiss. Motion to strike. >> And what is the basis for that? The most the basis of that is there is no corpus delecti. The three components are are are there are not those three components. There's only one of the three components here. Okay. The occurrence of loss of injury that's not here. the whatever happened legally to cause or illegally to cause that loss, that's not here either. So the the of the three things, the third thing would be me being named. That's here, but the other things aren't here. >> Okay. So is that is that all? >> Yes, that that Yes, your honor. >> Okay. Your motion is denied, Mr. Gray. All right. Now, I'm going to set this matter for a jury trial again. Uh, let's see if we can get one quicker. >> Go ahead again. >> Yeah, he had a George July the 5th, but now it's not been set anymore. Right. That's the date. We can get a date quicker than that. And for the record, I did not receive anything. Did you get the name? >> No. Check right now. I I don't have anything in the file. We're going to check the mail to see if you're Did you mail that uh motion in, Mr. Gray? >> That motion? One moment, your honor. >> The the motion is denied anyway, but I just want to make sure that we didn't miss anything. Uh here, Miss Matis, you can check the email to see if Mr. Gray filed any. >> Um again, your honor, I object. Um, article 3 section two clause two says that this because the state has been named in cases that the state is named then in those cases involving ambassadors p uh public ministers councils and those in which the state has been named those fall under the original jurisdiction of the Supreme Court. >> You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. M so that is my objection and I put that on the record that if if that if the state is being named which the city of Detroit would be the state then this matter doesn't fall in your jurisdiction it falls in the Supreme Court. >> All right. Well, you can um put that in a motion or whatever you want to do but um I don't I don't interpret the law that way and um your objection is noted for the record. Well, I object to your ruling on uh I object to you putting in a a a defense on my behalf. I didn't I didn't request that. I didn't >> I didn't put a I didn't put a defense on your behalf. >> You put in a a not guilty and I didn't plead that. So that's >> So you want to plead You have two options. You have two options. You want to plead guilty, not guilty, or you want to stand mute. Three options. What do you want to do? >> I stand mute. >> All right. Stand mute. I'm going to and based on that standing you I'm going to enter a not guilty plea on your behalf. Right. >> I object to the to the to the entering of a plea on my behalf. Your honor. >> Objection is noted on the record. >> Thank you. >> All right. Let's pass the matter. I'm going to get another jury trial date, Mr. Gray, and uh we'll get you out of here. Uh next time you miss, sir, it's going to be a cash bond on you. I'll let you know that. >> Understood. I understood. what they said. >> Appreciate your patience, your honor. >> We'll call them and find out. >> All right, let's let's pass the matter. We're going to figure out this. We're going to try to get this sooner rather than later. Mr. Gray, let's go back on the record for Mr. Christopher Gray. Mr. Gray, I'm going to give you a jury trial date of May the 27th, 2025 at 9:00 a.m. Okay. >> Uh, your honor, let's say let's say 8:30, >> your honor. Um I I think I have in third circuit court um a pending case. >> All right. Well, what do you have in third circuit? >> Uh uh issue with land bank. >> You don't have a choice. You you you come to uh in person at 8:30. You've already missed the day. Um you don't have a choice. You have to figure it out. >> Okay. in person, sir. >> We'll do. >> All right. Have a great day. >> Thank you, honor. >> Let's tell Mr. Mr. Gray, before you leave, Miss Snider, >> good morning, honor. >> How are you? I have Mr. Gray. He is appearing per se. Um, we set a jury trial for the 27th of May. Let's Let's do this. Let's go back on the record with Mr. Gray. Let's go back on the record with Mr. Gray. Uh, Miss Miss Snder, can you put your appearance on the record, please? >> Alexa Schneider for the people. P 80322. Is this Christopher Gray? >> Yes, it is. No, this is Chris. This is Christopher appearing for the economic Christopher Gray. >> He He doesn't know. He He's He's Christopher Gray at one moment and he's and he's he he gets confused. Now he's Christopher Gray appearing on >> the trust I am the trustee for that account. >> For that for that account. >> So anyway, Miss Snyder, can you get your officers here on the 27th? Let's say the 27th is a uh right after the holiday. Um that I I know that short short notice for your what's it's a week and a half. I I would like to get this done, get Mr. Gray uh his uh day in court. >> I have a few points, your honor. First is um I will not be here on the 27th. So, I would have to ask that we not set a jury trial in that date. I wouldn't be able to get anyone to cover. So, I could not have a jury trial. I would object to setting it shorter than the two weeks without having the chance to talk to the officers. If they were here in person or on Zoom, I could ask them, but I I just don't know their schedules. They might be on furlow. They might have medical issues. And third, I would object to Mr. Gray representing anyone, be that an account or another person. Since he is not an attorney, he cannot represent anyone. >> All right. I I'll rule on your I I'll I I'll hold your objection in obeyance and I'll rule on them on um another jury trial date. Uh Miss Matthew, please. All right. June June the 24th. June the 24th, 2025. That's going to be in person. We're going to set a final pre-trial date for the day before that for June the 23rd, 2025 at 8:30. That's all the parties need to appear. They do not need to appear in person. you can appear on Zoom, but we want to make sure that at least we have some officers that are going to testify and um to uh give testimony uh uh for for the people to make uh uh see if they can not even not to make to see if they'll be available for uh the trial the next day so we don't inconvenience the jury. So, jury trial is the 24th of June. 2025 at 9:00 a.m. And a final pre-trial is going to be June 23rd, 2025 at 8:30. And that uh jury trial is going to be in person. And then all the parties, all parties must appear for the June 23rd final retrial date. Understood. >> Is this for all of the charges on the docket, your honor? >> Yes, this is for all the charges except for the civil infractions. We're not entertaining those at all. >> Thank you, >> maybe some um maybe some more. >> No, it's all it's I think I've counted 10 and I counted 10 into the All right. Anything further from either either party? hearing no response. Everybody >> Yes, understood. >> All right. All right. Hearing no response. Uh have a very good day and best of luck to you, Mr. Gray. And uh >> thank you, your honor. >> Mr. Christopher Gray. >> Hey, good morning, your honor. >> Good morning. Are you what is your date of birth, please? >> Okay. Would I be correct in in in saying that you do not want an attorney? >> Uh, you would be accurate in that assessment, sir. >> This is the city of Detroit versus Christopher Gray. Case number SP1357945. Counts 1 2 and 3. SP 1191985. Counts one and counts two. SP 1629749. Counts one and counts two. SP267865 one 2 and three. Appearance. State your name for the record, please. >> Um, appearing as Christopher Gray, attorney in fact for Christopher L. Gray under the limited power of attorney. Um uh it's a limited appearance made solely to address the jurisdiction and procedural defects of the matter that we have before us. Um I'm not consenting or um to any pres presumed or implied claims and um what we're looking for is the verified evidence and proper legal process um to be adhered to. Um the notice that we received uh was insufficient under MCR1.205.105 uh J. Um and it didn't meet the the due process standards. Um the complaint didn't have the essential elements um know that the court requires uh and it wasn't signed by the prosecutor. Um, so I'm saying that there's no jurisdiction and I'm asking that the court rule and um dismiss it for lack of jurisdiction. >> Cited a court rule uh MCR1. Recite that rule that rule again please. >> MCR court rule MCR1-208 1-108. Is that 1-10? MCR1. Wait, let me have that. Uh, MCR1-105. >> MCR, that's construction there. These rules are to be construed, administered, and employed by the parties and the courts to secure the just, speedy, and economical determination of every action and to avoid the consequence of error that does not affect substantial rights of parties. Uh, so I'll deny your motion based on that. Um, that >> could you could you could you explain, your honor? >> No, I'm not going to explain. I don't ask I don't answer questions. I ask them. I'm I'm going to um enter a not guilty plea on your behalf. I'm going to give you a Z bond. If you want to appear before the court on your own behalf, you have to know the rules. And I you you you cited a rule and um I I I denied your motion on that rule that you cited. Okay. >> Well, what I'm asking is your explanation as to why on the record so that I can address that issue directly, your honor. >> Well, the explanation you said that that you cited that rule because the court didn't have proper uh didn't have proper notice, right? >> Yes. >> All right. So that rule that you read had nothing to do with notice. >> But in actuality it does, your honor. >> Well, that's between I I say that it doesn't. So based on that, I'm I'm denying your motion. You can take it up to the circuit court and appeal and appeal my decision if that's your if that's your choice. >> Understood. >> What do you want to do with these cases, sir? You want to you want to offer or do you want a uh do you want to uh set it for a jury trial? >> Uh I would consider an offer. >> Okay. Go in the breakout room. Miss Miss uh Snyder. Uh, Mr. uh, Gray is is is is appearing on his own. Oh, she's in uh, let me let me let me let her speak to the attorney and I'll have you I'll put you in a breakout room with the city attorney when she's done. Okay. >> Very good. >> Let's pass the matter. All right. Miss Snider, you can speak with uh, Mr. Uh, Christopher Gray. He's representing himself. He wants an offer. I'm going to put him in breakout room four. Okay. >> Thank you, your honor. >> He wants to entertain an offer. All right. Mr. Gray, I'm going to put you in a breakout room with the city attorney. Uh, let us know what you want to do when you come out. You have an absolute right to a trial if you don't like the off. >> Your honor. >> Thank you. >> All right. Did you talk to Mr. Gray? >> I did, your honor. I sent a chat. He wants a jury trial date with a final pre-trial date. We might be able to get rid of some of the charges at the final pre-trial. >> Can I get a jury trial date from Mr. Gray, >> please? >> All right, let's go back on the record with Mr. Gray, Mr. Christopher Gray. I've given you an opportunity to speak to councel and see if you could resolve the matter. Uh, as I'm being told, and I'll let you tell me for the record that you want a jury trial date. Is that correct? >> Yes, your honor. >> All right. What happened the last time? So, now here, we're not going to keep doing this. There was a jury trial date on 624 2025 set. And um >> we were looking for >> I was looking for uh for for notice to some type of notice from the court. I didn't receive that and so I that was >> but you you we we talked about that. Turn your camera on. >> But you got noticed when you left the court that room that day, right? When we were on Zoom. Is that correct? >> Uh, yes. >> Okay. So, that's not going to happen again. All right. >> Understood. >> Is this is this New Bedford Street your uh address now? >> No, sir. No, sir. >> All right. Where where where are we talking about? We you want me to update your address here with the court? >> Uh, yes. Can I send it to you? >> Send it in the chat. Yeah, please. >> Yes, sir. The jury trial date is going to be August the 19th, 2025 and at 8:30 we'll just have everybody up here. 8:30 I'm going to set a final pre-trial date. >> The jury trial date is going to be in person jury trial. I'm >> fine. in person final pre-trial. All parties >> must appear, but you don't have to appear in person for the final pre-trial. The final pre-trial can be uh on on Zoom, but but all parties must appear. That includes the officers. And then on August the 18th, that'll be the final pre-trial at 8:30. Um, >> understood. >> Are there going to be any motions? >> Let's just set a motion date. >> Yeah. >> For Let's make a motion date for August the 8th. motions due August the 8th, 2025 and a response to the motion if any will be August the 15, 2025. Um, I'm waiting on now the new address. Uh, did you get that? >> Yes. >> Got it. Okay. >> Yes. >> Um, what I'll do also, what is the zip code over there? >> Uh, 48 2 4216. >> That's in the city of Detroit. >> Yes, sir. >> All right. 235. All right. So, anything further? Anything further from any any of the part? >> No. >> Not for the people, your honor. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Very well. All right, Mr. Gray. If it's nothing further, have a very good day. Best of luck. >> Appreciate your latitude. >> Do you think this show was educational? Yes. It'll drive people to read books. And thanks for hanging out with us on Facts or Frauds. Make sure you hit the thumbs up button, you're subscribed, and ring that bell. 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