[Music] Welcome to facts or frauds >> flashback >> and Mr. Black. Good morning. Good morning. And your criminal charge is dismissed on Friday. Is that right? Thursday. >> I don't know. >> Okay. Well, thank you. How come I wasn't notified? >> Well, that's not what you're here for today. You're here for the traffic infraction. That's for I don't know. >> I thought this was a motion hearing. >> It was going to be, but the state made a motion to dismiss your charge. >> Okay. So now it's gonna be contested. >> Yeah, I'm waiting for your file to open up here. Sometimes our technology lags, so I'm waiting for it to give me access to your file. >> I didn't come prepared to contest the infractions. Um well, that that'll be easy because you can tell me whether you have insurance or not. But hold on a sec. Let me just explain. failure to transfer title, the trip permit, and the driving suspended charges, which are all criminal charges. And those are the ones that you'd filed all the pleadings on, which I've read all your pleadings. >> Okay. >> You have any comments on it? Just curious. >> I'll give you my comments here in a moment. >> And I believe the police report states that I did produce my insurance, but it took me a while to find it. Do you happen to have a copy of it with you? >> Yeah. >> Should I approach? >> Yeah, please. >> Big paragraph. >> Oh, so the last paragraph, right? >> And do you have a copy of whatever you showed the officer by way of the insurance proof? >> Yes. Oh, it's on my phone. >> Yeah, that's fine. Do you have your phone with you? >> Yeah, but I let somebody one of my employees take care of that and he whenever I need my insurance, I ask him where it is, but it'll take me a while to find it if you need me to. >> I'll see if you can find it while I'm reading this. >> Okay, bring it up. >> Okay, great. Okay. So, this is showing an insurance for somebody, not you, for a car. I don't think the car is identified here. >> Okay. Could be the vehicle. Where's Thomas Harris? He's the employee that takes care of that stuff. He registers the vehicles, gets insurance for them. >> And employee of yours. >> Yeah. >> And what type of business? >> Bioel gas station. >> All right. And then the the other thing to note here is that the insurance is purchased the day after the stop. No. >> Yeah. Look at 411. Stop was on 410. >> Well, I can call I'm sure it wasn't because when I called him, he produced this instantly. So, I can call him. >> I mean, you saw that, right? You saw that it said effective 411. Let me take another look. [Music] Yeah, >> Thomas, you're on speaker phone. I'm in court right now. Um, the charge, the criminal charges were dismissed, but the no insurance charge, remember when I called you when the police stopped me and you sent me the a copy of the insurance card? Well, the insurance card looks like it was purchased the day after the stop. >> Oh, maybe it's been the wrong one. Tell them that uh the tell we have a different insurance card. We've got so many vehicles here. It's crazy. There's no way to get an insurance card that quickly when I'm on when I'm working like that. The only thing I could do was send some proof of insurance that I had in my phone. Yeah. All right. Um, >> so what did they say? >> Well, you're on speaker phone now. I'm in court. And >> I mean, you got to realize we're working around. >> How could this possibly be purchased the next day? You didn't purchase insurance the next day, did you? >> No, no, no. What they may have done is what they do is they renew the insurance every six months or so. And what what happens is it automatically prints out ahead of time. And so what may have happened is they give us the cards in advance and then I I get it online and then I just put them in my phone but I got so many cars in there that it's hard to find them. >> Okay. Okay. I think that explains it. >> Okay. Yeah. I can if you need me I can look up and see where >> Well, let me ask the judge. Your honor. >> Okay. That's all. Thomas, thank you. >> All right. Thank you. Byebye. Okay. So, I'll find that the card you displayed is just the automatic renewal card that comes in. Coincidentally, it renewed the day after you got stopped. So, I'll go ahead and buy that. Dismissed the ticket. I'll return that to you. And then you asked me uh about your criminal charges. They were dismissed without prejudice. Now without prejudice means they can be refiled. >> So it's up to the prosecutor to decide whether they're refiling. >> I prepared something for the court. >> Without the prosecutor here, I can't make any decisions. I'll just share some general thoughts with you because I see you got a subsequent driving suspended ticket. out of looks like tumb water. So you have a court date I believe in August on that. Let me check. So, my guess is since you have a new charge right away, um that they may not be willing to dismiss the new charge and they may resurface the old charge because as I said, it was dismissed without prejudice, which means it can't be filed. So, right now, you're scheduled for court on the tongue water driving suspended charge on the 5th of August at 1:30 in the afternoon. So let's say Tuesday at 1:30 we're doing court. So um without ruling on anything that might be filed on a new case, I'll just share some thoughts with you which are that uh the view that you set forth in your pleadings is we see that occasionally very similar language. Uh I don't know, you know, sometimes the briefs we get in this line are all read the exact same. Yours is not the exact same, but a lot exact same. Um there is no case in the country that says a state cannot regulate the driving both commercial and private on any public thoroughare. So, you know, I read your arguments as to why you believe the freedom of travel means you can drive your private vehicle on public roads, which are paid for by the registration of the vehicle. By the way, in part, uh that you believe you can drive because you have the constitutional right to travel. Uh that it's never been interpreted that way. So the constitutional right to travel does not apply to overcome the requirements that states have imposed to require you to be to register your vehicle on an annual basis. That is it. I pay my registration fees every year because I have to in order if I want to put my car on the road and I know if I put my car on the road with expired tabs, I'm going to get stopped and I'll have to pay the fine and I'll have to go get my car tabbed. I just know that's the way it works and that's how the system is set up. So there's no legal argument there. you know, you made it in a sort of a big way, but I think it's a misinterpretation of what you believe the right to travel is. It does not give you the right to travel in any state, not adhering to that state's laws. And every state has a registration law like the state of Washington. So, you've asked my for my general. >> Have you noticed that in courts a car is referred to as a motor vehicle? uh friend riding with you in the car is referred to as a passenger. You're engaged in traffic and uh you're when what the problem is when a person registers his private property automobile with the state, he's declaring it a commercial vehicle. >> No, that see that's that's your interpretation. And I'll just tell you that's not the interpretation shared by the courts. We don't see it that way at all. So the law makes very clear that all of us who have vehicles that we put on no roads, they have to be registered. Doesn't matter whether we have passengers, no passengers, if we drive them ourselves or not. Um, if it's if we're engaged solely in personal business or moving from point A to point B, none of that exempts us from the requirement to appropriately register our vehicles, which is used as a means of supporting the construction of the roads that we drive on. >> Yeah. You know what you said? You've seen a few of these. What compels people to do this is the state abusing its power to license drivers as well as doctors and other professionals. If you don't behave the way the state wants you to in your private life, in your family life, the state through um the family court can have your license suspended. And that's just strong evidence that the system is not set up to make the road safe, but to control people. And people don't like that. >> Yeah. No, I I I understand the philosophy behind that. Um we don't do anything here with suspending licenses or not. We just interpret whether the person has a license or doesn't have a license. That's the only rule of the court there. Now, I will say what you're referring to is the ability of the Department of Licensing to suspend licenses for the failure to pay child support as >> support. What's that? >> It's not child support. It's government support. >> Okay. just it's called child support and that's what it's you know if you look on your driving record you have one of those things there that says fail it says fail to pay child support I I understand there's a different way of looking at it uh but it is not directly related to driving I get that but the legislature uh made that they thought how can we leverage people to pay what a court has determined they should pay for the support of uh their children and they decided that one good way to do it was to leverage the ability to drive. So that's what the legislature decided to do. They created the law. Nobody has determined that law is unconstitutional. >> A lot of people have, but they haven't taken it >> right. Um so in family court, the court rules don't apply. you know that >> and due process is streamlined so your driver's license can be suspended through a court procedure where it's a free-for-all. I've seen it. >> Okay. Yeah. So I I I like I said, I understand the philosophy you're indicating. I'll just when the case comes to me on a driving suspended charge, I look to see if your license is active or if you don't have the privilege to drive on the state and You view it as a right. The law views it as a privilege. And the privilege is um enacted if you are properly registered and insured. >> Well, it's a privilege to operate a motor vehicle on the highways, but the courts have ruled and it's in my brief. It's a right to travel by your automobile, by your private property automo. >> No, there's there's no court. Like I said, you can look all you want, but there has never nobody has ever found a case that says a court upheld the ability of somebody to drive in whatever state on public roads. >> Well, driving is a commercial term, too. >> Okay. To operate a motor vehicle in any regard. >> That's even more a commercial term. Look at >> operate your car. There's no case that say you can operate means using a business machine on a public utility. No, it doesn't operate means I'm operating my computer. I'm operating >> that's a colloquial >> my pencil. >> That's a colloquial term. >> Well, then you're you're pushing your example into sort of >> black fifth edition. You'll see that operate means using a business machine for a game. >> No. Okay. I I disagree with that and I don't think you'll find any case that supports that. >> Okay. I appreciate your input. >> All right. >> Thank you. >> End of flashback. >> Mr. Black, can you come on the Zoom call? >> Yeah. Can you hear me? >> I can. >> Okay. >> So, this is on for pre-trial. So, you don't have an attorney. Is that correct? >> I'm not sure I need one yet. >> Okay. >> Can I have your name? Uh, it says DC. Uh your honor, if I may, a couple things. Yeah. >> Um first of all, state had received a supplemental report and is prepared to um establish probable cause at this time. And then also if the defendant is electing to go proate, state would request a prosy call. >> Okay. I think that may have already happened, but in any case, um so Mr. flat. Um, right now this is on for a pre-trial which is the opportunity for you and the state to um discuss the case or maybe come to some sort of resolution and then it can be um and right now it's set for trial. Otherwise, it would it would continue on to trial. um your conf trial confirmation is October 22nd and um and then the trial itself would be October 29th and 30th. So I guess where do you you said you don't think you need one. Um but uh which tells me that you don't have one at the moment. So I guess what are your how do you see this case progressing and playing out? >> Can I have your full name and the prosecutor's full name? Uh, my name is uh Sam Meyer and the prosecutor's name is Miss Kitmaker. >> Is it Mer? >> Yes. >> And uh, the prosecutor's name again is uh, >> last name is Kitmcker. >> Okay. And first name >> it's Gabby. >> Okay. And uh can I see your oaths of office and official bonding information? >> Well, you again I speaking only for myself. Uh the answer to that is no. Uh um I don't have it on me. I don't uh carry around with me. I haven't uh it's not necessary for me to post my bond. And you know the person who needs to um I'd like to know some information from you as to where where you see this case headed. When the officer stopped me, if I were to tell him that I have a license, I have insurance, I just don't have it with me, I don't think that would cut it with him. It's important for a driver to have his license and insurance in order because operating a motor vehicle is a potentially hazardous occupation. The same is true with being a judge or a prosecutor. It's a potentially hazardous occupation because people could get hurt. They could go to jail unlawfully if something goes wrong. So a judge needs an oath of office which is uh anomalous to a driver's license and the bond the bond is equal to the insurance that a driver would need to have. >> So um I do have a both of office. It's good the auditor's office. If you want to go there and get it, you can you can certainly look at it. But uh um you know I say I don't carry it with me. I don't have it on the um uh I don't have it posted on the wall. I don't believe I'm required to. You are required to have a driver's license when you drive a car. But I don't, you know, we're going down a rabbit hole which really isn't that productive for you, Mr. Blad. I'm trying to figure out, you know, where you see this case headed. And it's either going to be set for trial or there's going to be some sort of resolution. And if you think you've identified some issues with me or you haven't seen my oath of office, if that's an issue on appeal you want to raise if you get convicted, you can certainly do that. But we're not going to spend a lot of time on um you know things that don't really matter with regard to your case. You might not believe that it doesn't matter. Um but it really doesn't. Right now you're the one charged with driving with license suspended in the third degree. Your options are go forward um to trial, which I've told you when that's scheduled on um October 22nd for trial confirmation on October 29th and 30th. And uh that's kind of, you know, so I guess I'd like some answers from you as to where you see this case headed. >> Okay. You just said you don't want to spend a lot of time, but if the prosecutor wants to spend 3 months of my time in a jail, then you have to afford me the time I need to uh get due process. Now, at the beginning of this Zoom hearing, I heard you say that the state is charging me, but the paperwork I've been giving says the city of Tumbwater is charging me. Could we clarify that? >> That that's a Yeah, I can clarify that. And that was a mistake on my part. You are correct. It is the city of Tumbwater. >> But the city of Tumbwater is franchised by the state of Washington, right? And it's using Washington's statutes to prosecute this case, right? >> I don't know about the franchise aspect of it, but it is a municipal court case from the city of Tumbwater. A lot of times municipalities incorporate um on criminal codes and misdemeanor, they'll incorporate uh the revised code of Washington into their um municipality with the law within within that municipality. So yes, it could very well be prosecuted under a statute from the revised code of Washington. Well, that raises some concerns with me because I see to your left you have the plaintiff's flag behind you and uh so are you a neutral entity or are you uh part of the prosecution? >> Yes, I'm I'm a neutral entity. I like to think that. Yes. >> Then why do you have the prosecution's flag behind you? >> It's not the prosecution's flag. It's the prosec There's a a flag from the United States of America. There's a flag from the Washington state and then there's a flag flag for the county. I am a Thirstston County District Court Judge. I elected and have jurisdiction within this county. >> But the state of Washington infranchises the city of Tumbwater to prosecute people under its statutes, the state statutes. So >> I I I don't I I I don't agree with your terminology there in terms of what they franchise. Tom Water is a municipality. they have some discretion as to how they can choose to enforce laws within their municipality. One of the ways they can do that, and they're not alone in this, a lot of cities do this, they not everybody, Lazy, for example, has their own municipal code, but Tumb Water might not. They might adopt the uh, you know, the RCW for things like driving with license suspended in the third degree, DUI, and and misdemeanor and gross misdemeanor things and things of that sort. of course felonies that obviously would be under um the revised code of Washington and that would go to superior court. Um that this is limited jurisdiction and uh we only deal with misdemeanor and uh gross misdemeanors. We're contracted to provide court services for certain municipalities within thirsten county including Tumbwater, Lacy, and uh to name a couple. And that's why you're here. That's that's how you're here. Are you going to be the judge throughout all the hearings in this process? >> I don't know. No, we have a rotating schedule and may may or may not. I just I'm just the lucky one today. >> Oh, this is going to put a burden on me to check all the judges uh oaths of office and so on. Um >> no, it's it's not. Don't worry about that. Like I say, our oath of office um are on file and you can go look at any of them anytime you want. >> Okay. I've been uh given this paper by the uh court. It says criminal trafficking. >> I'm very upset about being called a criminal. I'm not a criminal and I want to clear my name. Believe me. >> Um >> well, you haven't been convicted of this charge yet, but driving with license suspended in the third degree is a criminal charge. It's a simple misdemeanor. It carries with it a maximum penalty of 90 days in jail and $1,000 fine. as a practical matter. That's would be highly unusual for anybody to receive that sort of jail time uh for a charge of this sort, but driving with license suspended um is is a criminal um is a criminal offense. It just it just is. And that was done by the legislature. And um >> now driving and traffic are commercial terms. I mean, you could check it in Black's law dictionary. And the police narrative says that I had a passenger in the car. Passenger is also a commercial term. That passenger according to Black's law dictionary and extensive case law says that it's a customer who pays you to transport him, which is basically trafficking. There's nothing in the police narrative that uh says that to support the uh presumption that I was engaged in any commerce or traffic. So the case should be dismissed on that basis. >> No, no, it it that doesn't matter. If you get behind the wheel and drive a car, you need a license. And there are certain rules and there are certain things happen that can cause that license to get suspended. If it gets suspended and you get caught behind the wheel driving and the state can prove it, then you would be found guilty. terms of, you know, black law dictionary, whether they call that a passenger or not. Um, I'm not really sure. But the law that applies in this case, like I've told you before, is the revised code of Washington, which deals with licensing and um and how when people can drive and when they're eligible to drive. >> So all those things you say about, and again, you might not believe me, but those things you talk about, whether it's a passenger, whether it's a commercial term, none of that matters. The only thing that matters is were you driving and were you validly licensed or was your license suspended and that's it. That's the only that's what this case is about. >> Sir, I was traveling, not driving. Driving is a commercial term >> at the time. Now, I know anything I say can be used against me in court. I'm fully aware of that. >> So, hang on just a second. Just a second. Well, then don't then don't it it can but you shouldn't admit that if by traveling you were mean in an automobile and conducting that by having an engine running and applying pressure to the gas and brake and turning the wheel you know whether it's traveling or driving that's kind of like you know six of one half dozen of the other >> sir I need to make something I need to make something very clear at the very outset I'm not going to deny that I was traveling in my private property automobile on the date in question. I'm not going to argue. I'm not going to fight with the prosecutor about what the prosecutor wants to fight about at trial. Um, my defense is going to be something completely different. Now, I noticed something on the website for the court. It says jury instructions or jury uh guide. >> Hang on just a minute. Just a minute. Uh before we get there, can I take that to mean then that you you wish to go to trial on this? >> I wish to be left alone. >> Okay. Well, that's what everybody wants, but uh um right now where you are is um you're charged with the crime of driving with license suspended in the third degree. So again, I've went back to this before. your options are either um come to some sort of resolution with the city or go to you're entitled to a jury trial and then if you started mention you I want stopped you when you started saying things about jury instructions and that means if you wish to go to trial you can do that and uh um then then but I we can have a different conversation about your ability to and uh to represent yourself which you certainly have a right to do but I need to create a record that you're doing that you knowingly and voluntarily with with open eyes. The possibility is still in place to have an attorney appointed to represent you, but uh um you when we started this conversation, you know, I'm not sure that I need one. Most people when they're charged with any sort of criminal offense, and again, this is a criminal offense. Uh um they they take advantage of when they're offered an attorney at little or no cost. But again, that's entirely up to you. But what I need from you is a decision point on how you want to handle this case. either come to a resolution or go to trial. And if you go to trial, then we're going to we're going to which is fine. Trial dates are set, but we're going to have a conversation about a few things uh um uh before we get to a jury instructions. So again, I need some input from you as to what you wish to do. >> I only participate in fair trials and I have concerns about whether I can get a fair trial in this court. Can I >> Well, the trial, if it's a jury trial, the people who are going to determine your guilt or innocence will be six jurors will be impanled from the jury roles within the county and um it'll be up to them. >> There'll be six jurors and an alternate juror, right? So, that's seven, right? >> Typically, yes. Well, this jury guide that you have on the website says that it's the juror's job to listen to all the evidence at trial and the judges to the judge is to deal with legal issues, not the jury. >> True. >> That concerns me about whether I can get a fair trial because the whole purpose of a trial by jury is to consider issues of law. Otherwise, why why do we need a jury? Because I've already I've already stated I did the act. I traveled in my automobile on the date in question. I'm not going to deny that. I'm that's the first thing I would tell the jury if it goes to trial. >> And I'm going I'm going to bring up to the jury the issues of law. >> My question to the court is how would >> here in a second I'm going to stop you for a second because you're you're very wrong about something. Okay. You are very wrong about something. The jury does not decide uh issues of law. The judge does. The jury decides issues of fact. The jury decides what did happen or not happen. That's what the jury decides. The jury's the factfinder. The judge decides what law the jury listens to. That's just the way it is. And so when you say the jury decides the law, that's that's not correct. That's you know, there's no court in the country that uh uh can where the jury in this country anyway where the jury decides what the law is. The judge decides what's the law. And you can look at any court in any state in any jurisdiction in the union and that's the way it is. And so the jud and then the the judge will in following the trial following the evidence portion of the trial. The judge will instruct the jury on what the law is. And then the jury determines whether or not that person you did or what or did not do what you're being charged with. That that's a fact inquiry. And what you're being charged with is driving with license suspended in the third degree. And the juryy's going to decide, did this happen or did it not? And if you have issues with the law, they're not fair. You might think this is unconstitutional. I've heard many times people think that, you know, it's not constitutional for a state to require people to get licenses. It is. Um I've heard that, you know, that there's some uh the right to travel is being impinged by the requirements of a license. It's not. All of those things have been looked at by courts much above me have decided that that's that's what the law is. And any instruction you're going to get on the law or the juryy's going to get from the law has all been vetted in front of um you know courts of appeals and the Washington State Supreme Court and that's the way it is. But you need to be clear the jury does not and will not decide the law. Uh the love the judge will determine that. And you and what I was going to say to you in advance of that is you might not get to present maybe this is why you think you don't get a fair trial. Some of these legal issues you wish to um argue. You might not be able to do that. Probably not because that's just what the law is. And I know what the law is based on my experience. I may or may not be the trial judge if it goes that far. But I just I just know that to be the case. So, we're going to stop here for a second because um it's 2, but don't leave because it's at 2:30 and we have some other people coming on at 2:30. We're going to take care of those cases and then um I'll come back and speak with you some more. All right. >> I understand. I understand you believe all that nonsense, but the I'm going to have a trial by jury, not a jury trial. A jury trial, six people that only consider the facts. And basically, juries have been neutered since the uh rules of evidence have been implemented. in the 1936. But uh this jury is going to hear the law as well as the facts. And I'm just curious. I I would like to know how the judge would uh how the court would stop me from communicating with the jury. >> Well, that's a uh that's a good question. I guess you'll find out if you take this to ca take this to trial. But we're going to stop for a minute. I'm going to take there's a couple people who uh we're going to take these cases and then um we'll come back to you. Uh but don't leave. >> It does not reflect a pro call if we haven't. >> Okay. Yeah, we'll talk. >> Thank you. >> Okay. So, Mr. Blat, I'll come back to you. So, I think when last we talked, you said you wanted um you said a trial by jury or a jury trial. To me again, that's >> No, I did not say that. I want to be left alone. That's what I said. >> Okay. Okay. Well, again, that's what everybody wants. So do I. But uh um but nonetheless, where you're at right now, you're charged with um uh driving with license suspended in the third degree. And you had made the distinction, I think you had, and correct me if I'm wrong, I don't mean to misstate things, you were making a distinction between jury trial and trial by jury. And I'm not sure exactly what you meant by that. Well, a trial by jury, which is what we used to have before the passage of the 19th amendment when women got the right to vote and therefore got the right to sit on juries. Juries had the right to investigate the crime scene, to consider the law, to nullify. Uh, basically, it was a trial by jury. Now, it's a jury trial where the jury's neutered. There's only six of them. They're cut in half and uh they're not allowed to they're they're scured out of the courtroom every time there's important adult issues to consider like children and that's just nothing. That's not not a trial by jury. But anyway, I have a dispositive motion right now that might settle everything here. >> Okay, we'll set that for we'll set that for a motion hearing though. We do those on Monday morning. Did you file it in writing? >> I'd like to do that. prefer everything to be in writing. So, uh, can we schedule a motions hearing? >> We certainly can. But before we do that, I want to talk to you about it. Again, appears to me, well, we're going to do a couple of things. First of all, uh, um, I am going to find based on there's a police report filed in spec in sector. Based on that, I'm going to find that probable cause exists. And then we're going to set conditions of release, which basically are make all your court court dates, uh don't drive without license or insurance, and don't have any other criminal law violations. Based on our conversation thus far, um it appears to me that you wish to represent yourself at trial. Is that true? >> I don't understand. I don't understand that terminology. I am myself, so why would I want to represent myself? Only corporations need to be represented because they can't speak for themselves in court. I'm not a corporation. I'm a human being. >> So you w you wish to proceed to trial without a lawyer. >> No, I wish to be left alone. That's my only wish. >> But yeah, that's true. But that's one that's not going to happen. Uh in terms of this case, uh we're it is set for trial. The trial will take place. And my question to you is you're you have the right to have a lawy lawyer with you during trial and um you also have the right to go it alone all by yourself. And so Mike, you those are your two options. Which which of those do you wish to take? >> Well, I have some concerns about being represented by an attorney because >> attorneys in this state are licensed and franchised to make a living in the plaintiff's courtroom only at the pleasure of the plaintiff, right? >> No. No. Well, you're under a lot of you're you have a lot of unfortunate and uh incorrect impressions. You really do. And that's really unfortunate and I'm trying to, >> you know, let you know and again, you're just you're just wrong about a lot of things and I'm sorry about that. >> Does the plaintiff have the power to disbar the attorney if the uh >> No, absolutely not. I don't know why you would think that. That's completely not true. Well, I personally know attorneys who have been blacklisted because the courts don't like the way they defend clients because they do it too effectively. For example, Lee Ehart was dis was not disbarred because he never did anything wrong, but he was blacklisted, which means any client he hired automatically lost and he had to inform each client that wanted to hire him. >> I'm not I don't I don't know anything about that individual. I don't know anything about that. You're asking me, I guess, in this court whether uh or just generally whether the plaintiff in this case would be the prosecutor has the right to disbar attorneys and the answer to that is no, they don't. >> The plaintiff is the state of Washington because Washington >> the city of Tumbwater in this case, remember we talked about that. >> Yeah, but the city of Tumbwater is a subdivision of the state of Washington, >> but they can still uh bring case. So again, what do you want to do for your upcoming trial in terms of an attorney or um have one with you or go it alone? >> I'm not sure I need an attorney at this point because we'll have to see. >> Again, that's a binary choice. So then from that, I can tell you you're choosing to go it alone. And if you ever done this before, have you ever conducted a trial of any sort? >> Just look at my record. That's again, I can see your record, but that none of it tells me whether or not you've uh done a trial by yourself before. >> So, m Mr. Blad, have you ever conducted a trial before by yourself? >> I didn't come here to answer questions. I'm sorry. >> Okay. Um Okay. So then I'm going to talk and then um and then we're going to set a couple we're going to set a date and then um >> I need to bring something to your attention if I may. >> I'm sorry. >> I need to bring something to your attention. The United States United States Constitution at article one section one states that when a party when the state is a party which is this case uh all excuse me when the state in all it says in all cases in which a state shall be a party the Supreme Court shall will have original jurisdiction. This is in the United States Constitution. Now, the Washington state constitution says that a frequent recurrence to fundamental principles is necessary. This is a fundamental principle. When the state is accusing a citizen of a crime against the state, the state can't take the defendant to trial in its own court. That would be a conflict of interest. It has to take it to a neutral court which is the United States Supreme Court. It says it clearly here in article 1 section one in the United States Constitution. >> So um again I'm going to speak for a few minutes and then I'm going to turn it back to you and we're going to set a date here. And again, I don't um first of all, this case is going to be is headed for trial. Um and again, it doesn't appear that you're interested in having an attorney appointed to represent you. So, you'll be going it alone when you you have the constitutional right to do that, but um you need to know that you know you're not an attorney. Apparently, you have very low opinion of attorneys. generally and um and a very low opinion of the system itself. Could you tell us uh um but uh >> I have no problem with >> the city of Hang on, let me finish. I'm not done yet. The city of Twater is going to be represented and I know you don't like that term either uh by an attorney. That attorney is trained in the rules of evidence, trained in the rules of procedure, been through trial many times. Um and again, I don't know whether you have or not. And so they are experienced in the rules of evidence which is important. You spoke disparagingly disparagingly of the rules of evidence earlier. Uh um and they have training in that which again is important and um I'm going to assume you don't and many of the things that you've talked about you're incorrect on. It's un unfortunately you're just incorrect about some things and so you're going to be at a big disadvantage when you go to trial without an attorney uh going it alone. Do you understand this? Isn't it the the prosecutor's job to decide whether I'm wrong on issues? You're supposed to be neutral. The prosecutor hasn't even argued against me, and you're already saying that I'm wrong. >> No, I'm I'm trying to, you know, believe it or not, and you probably won't. I'm actually trying to help you, let you know that this is just the way things are going. This is the way that this this will happen. I'm not siding with the prosecutor. I'm just saying that this is what uh um and it's not the prosecutor's job really to decide what the you know the prosecutor and defense they disagree all the time on what the law is or what should be and then I'm the one who gets to decide uh one way or the other. But some of the things that you're saying are so outside the norm that I don't I don't need to hear from them and I'm trying to let you know that what you think is going to happen and what you think the way go things work is simply just not correct. And you know, I'll go back to that fundamental. You know, I can't speak to the way juries were back in the 19th century. I I just know how they are now. And I know that the jury's job in the cases of this sort is to find facts. That's what it is. And the judge is going to instruct them on the law. That's how it is. And the judge is going to determine what's going to be admissible or what's not. And uh um and that that's just that's just the way the trial is going to go. and and uh um and I'm trying to let you know that is just to give you advanced warning so when you're in the middle of a trial saying, "Hey, what's going on here?" Uh um you just leave having you just at least have an idea of what's coming. That's all I'm trying to do. And I want to make sure that if you go to trial alone, you're going in with open eyes understanding that you're at a at a fairly huge disadvantage. And so, um but knowing all that, that's still the avenue you want to take. You said the jury's job is to decide the facts, but there's no facts to decide because I'm I'm acknowledging all the facts. >> I'm acknowledging all the facts. I'm not going to challenge them. I'm not going to fight with the prosecutor about what the prosecutor wants to fight about. My issue is the law. And I'm not saying the law is wrong. It's a question of whether the law, this particular law that I'm charged under, applies to me, whether I'm a person within the meaning of the statute. Now, the jurors are taxed to pay legislators to make up laws for their benefit. Yet, they're not allowed to know what the laws are. Don't you think that's there's something wrong with that? Um, well, I guess my response to that is I think most people are aware that when you get behind the wheel of an automobile and conduct it in traffic, you need a license. And uh there are certain things that can happen that can get your license suspended. I think most people know that. >> Well, my position is I never had a license, never applied for a license, and I was not engaged in traffic. I was engaged in travel. Traffic is going to be the issue at this trial. And um >> well, that it'll be up to the jury to it'll be jury determining whether you were in traffic or or traveling. That's >> excellent. the issue that you said, "Well, I never had a license, so it couldn't be suspended. I've seen people try this before and I've never seen it work." >> So, here's what we're going to have. Hang on just a second. Here's what we're going to do today. So, right now, trial is set for October 29th and 30th. Jury confirmation is set for October 22nd. You said you had a motion you want to bring. You can that'll be heard on um how do we do? >> Yeah, that'll be heard on October 20th. You need to have that filed in writing by October 6 and uh the state will have that their response filed by October 13th. Your honor, if we could please request um the defendant's email address so that the response motion can be sent to him as he's not per se. >> Did you hear that, Mr. Blap? >> Not really. >> They wanted So, they're going to f you're going to file something and they're going to see it. They should they should have the opportunity to respond to it and um they want to get their response to you and they want to do that through email. >> That's fine. So, what is your email? >> Atyahoo.com. >> B L A TT. >> Did you get that? >> I did. Thank you. >> All right, Mr. Bland. I think that's it for today. And then um at that particular time, the judge, whether it's me, whether it's one of the other judges here, I don't know. Um, how many judges work in this court that could be on this case? >> Four. >> Four. Okay. Uh, can I have their names? >> Sure. There's, uh, Kayla Wilcox, uh, Brett Buckley, you already know my name, and then there's a commissioner named Paul Wool. It's all on the District Court website. You can just go look at it. Okay, >> thank you. >> And uh my guess is that that judge, whoever heard the motion is probably going to have a conversation with you again or at least try to uh um about the concept of uh representing yourself and the disadvant and again I know you hate that word. I'm sorry if that offends you in some way, but uh or going to trial alone without the assistance of an attorney. Uh um that's just >> I never express hate for any statute or uh attorney or wording or the the >> I don't say that I again I'm not I'm not suggesting you are. I think that or if I did use that term I apologize. Um, I just think that, you know, and spent a lot of time with this because I just think you're you're under some misunderstandings of a lot of real basic points. And, you know, in terms of we're here in district court, uh, the state of Washington, you want to talk a little constitutional law, state of lo Washington constitution set superior courts of courts of records. It's also in the constitution that they can set and create such infinite inferior courts um as you know by statute through the legislature. The legislature has done that. They have uh um established this level of court through chapter 3 and the revised code of Washington if you want to look there. There's also a mechanism in place where district courts can contract with municipalities to provide court services. All this stuff has been litigated uh um through the court of appeals and the Washington State Supreme Court and um and again it's just all it's just pretty standard stuff and um I've tried to spend some time explaining it to you. I unfortunately I don't think I've been very successful. I'm sorry about that. I wish I was more successful. But um you can research all that out and I guess when you talk about one thing I will go back to that I should have said earlier when you say the jury you want to argue the law to the jury and shouldn't they know the law and so forth you know a lot of that happens in the court of appeals in the Washington state supreme court. You know again I'll instruct the jury or whoever the judge is whether it's me or one of my colleagues will instruct the jury on the law. The jury will decide the facts and based and then apply the law as I instruct them to it. Now, if I'm wrong about the law and you turn out to be right, all that's handled at the appellet level. You would file an appeal if you're convicted and then you would uh the court first superior court would look at it and see if I made a mistake on the law then and or your right on the law and if then it keeps going up all the way to the court of appeals and then eventually to the Washington State Supreme Court. they may or may not choose to take it. And so that's where the issues of law are decided. >> Everything you just said about the evolution of the law is true. However, the Washington state constitution says that a frequent recurrence to fundamental principles is necessary for a free state. >> That's what it says. So that means we eventually get so convoluted to oppress uh citizens of the state that we have to go back to fundamental principles, >> right? And again I I do want to address your last thing, you know, in terms of oppression. Um again, let's remember what we're talking about here and that is your license was suspended and you were drive alleged alleged to have been driving. I know you have say while you were traveling or whatever and that's just again the only issue is were you conducting an automobile and um did was your license suspended and that's it. That's what this case is all about. >> An automobile is different from a motor vehicle and I believe the statute refers to motor vehicles. Motor vehicles >> motor vehicles encompass a lot of things. A motor vehicle can be a motorcycle. It can be an automobile. It can be so and I think that that's generally pretty accepted that a automobile is a motor vehicle. >> No motor I believe that it is >> a motor vehicle >> unless it runs by the Flintstones where they just run on the ground then it's not a motor vehicle but I'm joking but perhaps I shouldn't be. >> A motor vehicle is a specific legal term in commerce. It's a business machine like a truck, a taxi or a bus that makes its business on the publicly funded roadways which it does not have a right to do. a person >> again in Washington. And again, a motor vehicle includes a car. It does. And again, where do you get your driver's license? You go to the Department of Motor Vehicles, the DMV. That's where you get a driver's license for cars. And so, it makes sense that that and again, I don't want to we're going down a rabbit hole that was really not productive for either one of us, frankly. But, um, and again, I will just tell you that a motor vehicle includes automobiles with within the terms of this statute and this state. It just does. And I'll just >> I'll address this in my brief, but you're not going to be successful. >> I'll address this in my briefs and my motions, but of course the prosecutor and you will just pretend like you haven't even read it like it like it I've been through this many been through this many times. >> Okay, I'm I'm going to stop you again. I won't speak for the prosecutor. Uh but if it's me, I'll read it. I'll read all of it. But my experience has been I'm sorry to say to accuse you, but my experience has been that judges will just pretend that they haven't read it. They'll say we read it and I found it's not correct. >> They never talk about >> they never talk about again. I don't want to talk about things that haven't even happened yet. So maybe it'll be me and uh um and then uh we'll see. We'll see what happens. But do do you know when you need to get your brief due? Your your >> October 6th. October 6th and response by October 13th. >> And we'll all reconvene on October 20th and hash it all out. >> Whether it's me or one of my colleagues, I don't know. >> Okay. >> That'll conclude the hearing for today. >> Thank you. >> You're welcome. >> Hi. Well, that's just about it. So, so thanks for watching and we'll see you again real soon >> and thanks for hanging out with us on Faxer Frauds. Make sure you hit the thumbs up button, you're subscribed, and ring that bell. Also, leave a comment in the comment section. Tell me what you think. [Music] Actually, I wish you could see the studio floor right now. There's nowhere more fascinating after a show. everyone so busy like like bees or white Anglo-Saxon Protestants. And a huge thank you to all of our Facts or Frauds channel members. If you'd like to become a member, click on the link in the description or click join right next to subscribe. There's electricians all rolling up their cables. Whoops. Sorry, guys. 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