[Music] and welcome to facts or frauds. We are here in the case of Preferred Credit Union versus Fanthia Price, case number 25-05340 AE. This hearing is being recorded on Zoom and live streamed on YouTube. >> And uh this matter um uh is before the court for a motion today, although it was not clear to me uh uh what the nature of the motion is. So as an initial matter, uh Miss Price, would you state and spell your full name for the record, please? Uh I just want you to know your honor, I'm here specially not generally and do so siri jurist as the authorized agent for the family of the price estate. So my appearance is strictly limit to the matter noted today and not to does not grant any joiner to general jurisdiction nor does it have any waiver of rights or implied legal disability or association with any bargill. Well, I get it, Miss Price. However, I can tell you that uh I'm a general jurisdiction court. I operate under the United States Constitution and the Michigan Constitution, and those are the only things that give me jurisdiction to act or make any decisions. So, um if you want me to decide anything uh in your case, uh you're going to have to be within the jurisdiction of of my court. So, uh, and we don't have to hammer that completely out at this time, but I do need you to state and spell your name. >> F R A N T H E A friend Thea. >> All right. Last name Price. P R I C E. >> I am. >> Very good. Uh, and Mr. Bikio, would you place your uh appearance on the record, please? >> Thank you. Your honor, may I please the court? Steven Bquikio, BU Q UI CC HIO P number 62076 on behalf of the Plainif Preferred Credit Union. >> Very good. And Mr. Beukio, this is not your motion. This is Miss Price's motion. >> It it is your honor. Although like you, I'm a bit confused as to what the relief she's seeking here. Um, so, uh, I I'm prepared to, uh, assert preferred's position legally here. Um, and we'll wait for your courts for the court's direction as to when I can speak on that. >> Very good. Well, um, let me go back to Miss Price because it's her that, uh, you know, initiated this motion appearance. What What are you asking me to do at this time, Miss Price, in a legal sense? I respectfully request that the court take judicial notice pursuant to MR201B of the following two documents I previously filed into the court record. One is exhibit J OC10 subpoena deuces to demand for custodial records and number two supplemental notice of clarification regarding the construct of subpoena duces tokum. Uh these materials uh your honor are supported by the Federal Reserve Operating Circular number 10 appendix 3 UCC article 8 subsections 8 102A14 and 15 12 CFR subsections 225 and 31 CFR subsection 203 which collect >> Let me just pause you just a minute Price u the one thing I recognized of everything you said there was the Michigan rules of evidence and uh The term subpoena deuces take them. Uh meaning you're directing a discovery subpoena. Um is that directed at preferred credit union? >> It is sir. I also wanted it to be on record because I've previously asked for debt validation and didn't get anything in the lower courts. So >> may I respond? >> Uh yeah, go ahead, Mr. Mukio. >> Uh couple things, your honor. There's a lot to unpack there. Uh number one, we have a judgment in this case. So uh any attempt for discovery is outside uh respectfully the jurisdiction of this court at this point. I suspect what Miss Price uh or the estate of Miss Price or the Frenthia Price family of Price estate is seeking to do here, your honor, is undo the judgment that was legally entered in the lower court case. Um so I would just say, your honor, um what she's asking for is irrelevant and outside the bounds of what this court can do. The case is over as far as the district court is concerned. I can get into the argument as to the debt validation. I did produce with our response a uh motion for summary disposition there that did provide for the debt validation notice. Miss Price continues to mislead the lower court and now this court that a debt validation was not given. It was in fact given. This is a simple credit card case and she is trying to use far-flung just I I can't even characterize what these arguments are. Your honor, I want to be respectful of Miss Price ability to defend this in proper. Uh but >> I object sir. I'm not in proper. I'm sorry jurist. Thank you. >> Okay. Whatever that means, your honor. I I I I I this this is making a $12,000 credit card case so much more for my client. And Miss Price, pursuant to the agreement, is responsible for those attorney fees. And I and I know there's a fine line between allowing a defendant in proper or Sue Joris or whatever the the the the name she's calling it, but this is just abuse of the process, your honor. Um, she is alleging things that have no legal bearing whatsoever. She's asserting UCC, Bill of C, bill of ladings, bill of exchange, foreign for foreign bill of exchange. You're I don't even know what this means to be quite honest, and I've been doing this for over 25 years. Um, >> let me uh just pause you for a minute, Mr. Mukio. One thing I did see that I did recognize as I paged um through the file was the um affidavit of transcript of the lower court record uh which is normally produced uh in a case that comes before me on appeal of the district court decision. Are you aware of a notice of appeal filed? >> I am not aware of that, your honor. I I um I I suspect what was done here, your honor, was in the lower court. The judge uh indicated to Miss Price that she's ruling in favor of preferred and she was welcome to appeal that. And I suspect this is her attempt to appeal that and and um to the extent your honor is ready to rule on her appeal and either um you know overturn the lower court's decision on the judgment or or some other ruling here. I'm going to proceed as though she is seeking to undo the judgment that was entered against her. That that's all I can surmise by this. Your honor, >> if I may speak. >> Yep. Go ahead, M. >> I believe the the opposing council has stated he has not received an appeal. I have sent that. All the information you received, he uh received that. I have the record um that the hard copy receipt from the post office. I sent this certified mail. So, I do have the receipts of all of those things. whatever you have, his office received it as well. I do have the proof of service and all that. Um, the fact of the matter that he continues to mischaracterize this um as solely a simple credit card debt that I'm trying to avoid. That is simply a mischaracterization of what I'm attempting to do as it's unsupported on the record that I've attempted through uh bill of uh bill of exchange and I've asked and requested and have not received a simple uh application a copy of it is not supported of the verification that this is a bonafide uh contract and lawful consideration if it's not done is violation of a contract as well. >> All right. Well, you know, here's the here here's my uh where I sit on this one, Miss Price, is that my um position legally here is I can I'm the court of uh I can sit as the court of appeals to review um the judgment in the district court. Uh, and what I appear to have in front of me here is a partial appeal in that I do have the record, at least what looks like to me, it's not a full record. It's just the transcript of the summary judgement hearing at the um in the district court in Kentwood. Normally, when I get the record from them, it has a whole bunch of other documents that explain uh, you know, in a nutshell um, how that case was reduced to judgment. and I don't have that. So, I don't appear to have an entire record. And what I don't have from you specifically is a a document called a notice of appeal uh that uh tells me that you're appealing a final judgment and that you want me to um review that uh for its legality. Um, I can tell you because it is a on appeal, it follows the appellet rules of the Michigan court rules and they are uh, for lack of a better term, more intricate and harder to follow than the general court rules or the the court rules for proceeding in the district court or in the circuit court. Uh, there are a lot more hoops uh, to jump through on appeal. And that's really where you are when you're in front of me. And I can also tell you that on appeal what I'm supposed to do is look at the record that was generated in front of Judge Sturkenberg and uh you know the new stuff that you file with me arguments are uh you know request for discovery Mr. Bequio is uh accurate in saying that normally um you don't get any additional discovery on appeal. Normally what you do is you make an argument on what happened below and that might include that Judge Sturkenberg denied you proper discovery and that uh thus she made a legal error that warrants me overturning that case or sending it back to Judge Sturkenberg for more um work or uh you know things of that nature. And I can tell you from what I see in the file right now I don't have uh the information I would need uh to decide that. So what I am going to do is direct you to file the requisite notice of appeal um uh and appeal documents within the next uh 15 days or I will dismiss the appeal uh and you'll have to start that uh process over again and the dismissal uh may have a substantive effect on your ability to file another appeal. So uh what I'm telling you is this appeal that's in front of me right now is incomplete. it's not um documented uh per the appellet rules uh which are found in the Michigan court rules and uh you know I wouldn't have any choice but to dismiss it unless you supplement it uh with at least bare minimum a notice of appeal uh and uh you know sufficient information to inform me and Mr. Bequio um what the nature of your appeal um is what you know that you it appears that you're appealing from a final judgment. However, all I saw in the final judgment I think was the uh fact that Judge Sturkenberg uh did grant that on the record. I didn't see is do you have a judgment and order that you filed Mr. Bakukio a written order in connection with that? >> We do your honor. A judgment was indeed entered uh subsequent to our motion for some redisposition and hearing on that motion. And I believe that was uh submitted with our response uh to this uh to this uh to Miss Price's filing, whatever that was, your honor. >> Okay. And I unfortunately uh I have Miss Price's filing. I don't think that I have um your response. it didn't make its way uh to me in time uh to come home with me um for the file. So, I'll I'll review that as well, but um uh Miss Price, like I say, there there is documentation uh and it is strictly required by the appellet rules. There's no way you know sometimes in the lower courts a judge can say well you're appearing as a uh um Swanerys proay you know a law a person rep appearing without an attorney appearing beside them and uh I can give you a break on uh following some of the rules that that's not true at all on appeal uh appeal there either you follow the rules or your appeal gets dismissed it's it's you know kind of a a a black and white system uh in that regard and that it doesn't give me uh very much discretion when I'm sitting in that appellet jurisdiction. So, you do need to get that in order and I'm going to have it uh ordered that it be done within 15 days. Uh and uh uh uh that's I think all we can do for today. Uh, your honor, as a procedural clarification, your honor, to the extent Miss Price uh does supplement her appellet filing and the court finds that it is um uh inconsistent with the appellet rules, uh will another hearing be required, your honor, or is >> No, I'll just sign an order of dismissal if I don't have the proper documents to initiate the appeal. >> Terrific. Thank you, your honor. >> Very good. So, your honor, um, you said I have 15 days to get the information cuz I believed I sent all of this stuff in appropriately. I went into um, and handed it in and got the proper documentation. And the fact that you said you don't have that information is a little >> Yeah. No, I do have a bunch of stuff that you filed that appears to have been printed out by you. The one thing I have, you know, and the uh the only uh suggestion I can make, Miss Price, there is a legal assistance center on the fourth floor of the courthouse. If you talk to them and say, "Gee, Judge Rossi said I was missing some stuff on appeal," they can at least direct you to the proper forms uh to file uh to initiate an appeal. because the one thing I did receive here um was uh the notice of filing of transcript and affidavit of mailing and that that's on a Michigan court form uh that I recognized and uh uh what I then got was a transcript of that hearing uh the last hearing it appears in front of Judge Sturkenberg. Um however um there is more stuff uh they need to what really they need to do is transmit the entire record um of that case uh or you as the party need to assemble that record uh on appeal. the record of what happened in the lower court and get it to me um on appeal. Uh you know, and that basically looks like those transcripts uh plus any paper documents in the court file that happened in the district court. And I I don't see any of those in my appellet um file here. >> They told me that um I had I put there that they was going to mail it to you. They mailed me a copy and they said they was going to mail you a copy cuz I purchased the transcripts and everything. >> Yep. And I did get the transcript, the one, but that's just the transcript of the uh you know, the the hearing on appeal, and that is part of what I need. Uh well, and you know, I said I didn't have a claim of appeal. I stand corrected as I'm paging through here. Uh, and I have to tell you, uh, Miss Price, the filing of the, um, you know, the additional documents here, I I know you believe it's important and helping me to decide your case, but I can tell you what it's doing in a practical sense is making it really hard for me to file, you know, just to track the documents that actually um, do trigger my duty to uh, you know, decide stuff on appeal. So, I do have a claim of appeal. uh looks like it was um signed uh by you on uh June the 13th of 2025. So really what I need on appeal then u and again uh you know I'm also prohibited as the folks at the legal aid center are from giving legal advice. But I can tell you if I'm to decide any appeal I'll need a copy of the entire lower court record on appeal. And the record on appeal, like I said, it uh usually it's assembled by uh the parties to the appeal. Uh usually you as the person, the individual appealing the decision of Judge Sturkenberg are the one that's going to, you know, put that together. Mr. Bequio can contribute to that uh record if he wishes to do so. And then that gets submitted to me uh you know, kind of as a uh here's what happened at the lower court. It tells the story of that in those filings and pleadings filed at the lower court. And then you file a brief on appeal and your brief makes the arguments as to why Judge Sturkenberg made um legal errors in her decision-making. And you know, since I'm requesting that brief now, I just thought I was needing the claim of appeal. But since I have a claim of appeal, uh, that properly initiates the case on appeal, what I really need then is that record on the lower court, and then I need a brief from you explaining the errors that you think Judge Sturkenberg made. Um, and I'll tell you, I will not be receptive to documents telling me that Judge Sturkenberg or I didn't have jurisdiction. uh you know that would be in effect saying judge I'm arguing that uh neither of the courts could really decide this case uh because of my legal status sweet generous or you know whatever uh you know magic words you're trying to invoke there that just doesn't work and the reason it doesn't work particularly on appeal is I have to have jurisdiction to decide the appeal um in the first place and if you're telling me I don't have jurisdiction you're as good as telling me as judge dismiss my appeal because um you know you can't decide it anyway and you so in other words you got to give me more than that. It's got to be an argument based on Michigan law as to what mistakes were made by Judge Sturkenberg in the court below and then I can uh decide the matter on appeal. And since um I'm looking for the brief on appeal that's a little harder to put together along with that whole record. I'll extend the time for the filing of the um record on appeal and your brief on appeal. I'll give you 60 days from today's date. Uh we're at uh July the uh >> 25th. >> 25th. Yeah. Sorry, my glasses. I'm using a backup pair of glasses cuz my my regular ones are in the shop. So, uh uh the uh yeah, two months from today will bring us to September 25th to have those documents filed. Uh and then I'll be able to decide those. And I I'll also tell you, Miss Price, the way it works on appeal is I I don't need to grant um you can request oral argument, uh which would be another version, you know, today really this is more of a status conference. It's not so much oral argument cuz I couldn't make head or tail of what the file was asking me to do. Um you can request oral argument if you want it. I don't have to grant it on appeal. Sometimes I just review the record in the filings and um uh you know uh uh decide the appeal based on that. And of course, Mr. Bequio um after that 60 days can file whatever he wants in response to um your arguments on appeal. Uh and you know, likely that'll be a a motion to dismiss the appeal saying, uh Judge Durkenberg did everything right and there's nothing to nothing to look at here, folks. So, that's kind of how it works on appeal, just for your information. Uh and uh like I say uh if you need help with at least the forms part of it uh the legal assistance center on the fourth floor of the courthouse is a good resource for that. >> Okay. So am I just for clarification cuz I'm going to do this right this time this coming next time. Um there's 60 days I have I you need the brief on appeal explaining the errors of the lower court. >> Correct. and the record >> and you need a complete record of the two um hearings that would that take that had taken place. >> I I need the complete record from the lower court and that would start with everything from Mr. Bequio's complaint that he served you with and the proof of service and all that stuff. Uh typically there's a copy of it would be as if you grabbed the file from Kentwood and made a copy of every piece of paper in it. >> Okay? Plus the transcripts. >> Okay. Plus, uh, you still need the transcripts as well. >> No, you already filed the transcript if that was the only hearing in the case. Uh, were there other hearings? >> There were none, your honor. >> Okay. So, that was the only time that you two argued in front of the judge. Uh, so I don't need any additional transcripts. I just need the record on appeal. >> Your honor, there may have been a pre-trial. Um uh I I I can't remember whether or not that was on the record or not, your honor, but if it is indeed on the record, the lower court record would include that, of course. >> Very good. All right. So, that's what I need is that record from the lower court. Um Mr. Makuku, I think the uh you know uh appellet rules allow you to weigh in and supplement the record or collaborate on submitting the record uh to me. I'll leave that to you as to how much you're going to uh participate and assist with that production. Uh but uh you know you can't you two can talk to each other. The goal being to get everything in front of me that I need to decide the arguments that you make in that brief on appeal which is where you get a chance to make your your substantive argument as to any errors made by Judge Sturkenberg. >> Thank you honor. I I will say to clarify from our position, we we did respond to the filing of Miss Price with that, we included um the complaint, the answer um and uh our motion for some disposition and Miss Ms. Price's um response to that motion for some redisposition. Um so that uh should make its way to the court file. Um I I don't know whether that would be deemed an official record as far as the appeals concerned with uh certified documents but we did put the underlying materials in our response. Um so uh that will be contained in your file and uh I >> copy obviously went to Miss Price so she should have received >> yes >> all those filings as well and uh yeah normally right there is the certified record on appeal gets uh you know a simple one-page document from the district court saying this is everything we have in our everything in our file. So um I would accept either way u you know if you want to supplement what Mr. PUIO uh sent Miss Price or whether you want to just go to the district court and say, "Hey, I need a whole copy of that file cuz Judge Rosy's asking me for it." And it's plus, it's got to be certified cuz it's on appeal. Um they they at least have done that before down there at the Kentwood clerk's office. So, uh it'll at least give you a starting point as to what to do. And like I say, I think I'd make my first stop the legal assistance center so you can walk in there with the right form uh when you go to Kentwood District Court. >> Thank you. And do I use the same case number as well? >> Uh, no. It'll be assigned a already has been assigned a new case number on appeal, which is the one we're here on today. It's 25. >> Yes, that number. That's the one I'm speaking of. >> Yep. That that that is the appellet case number. >> Okay. >> Now, when you're talking to Kentwood and if you're looking for the record, then you got to go with that number down there. >> Okay. Thank you. I appreciate your help, sir. >> Very good. Good luck to you, ma'am. >> Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Miss Price. >> Do you think this show was educational? >> Yes, it'll drive people to read books. >> And thanks for hanging out with us on Facts or Frauds. Make sure you hit the thumbs up button, you're subscribed, and ring that bell. Also, leave a comment in the comment section. Tell me what you think. And a huge thank you to all of our Facts or Frauds channel members. [Music] And if you're still hanging out, thank you. I appreciate you all. Make sure you hit the thumbs up button, subscribe, and ring that bell. Also, leave a comment in the comment section. Tell me what you think. Till next time, I'll see you soon.