This video is sponsored by PDS Debt. She don't want me leaving. You're not leaving. They keeping you here. You detained. They trying to charge you for a murder. In this video, we're going to see the interrogation of one of the youngest murderers in Florida's history. In June of 2014, 12-year-old Sharon Townsen was hanging out with an older boy, one of several friends of Townsens who were bad influences. In an alley behind an abandoned burger restaurant, Thomas Trent, an elderly homeless man, was sleeping after having just recently been released from the hospital. Trent was an alcoholic with several health problems and had to walk with the assistance of a walker. Townsen shot Trent in the head, killing the 54year-old, and ran from the scene of the crime. He did not return home and was reported as missing. Several people identified him on the news from crime scene videos. And two weeks later, Townsen was taken in for questioning. Jacksonville teen could be spending over 40 years and be over 40 years old when he gets out of prison for killing a homeless man. Chiron Townsen, who was only 12 years old when he shot Thomas Trenton in the head, killing him in 2014. 15 years from now, Townsen's sentence can be reviewed, and the court will look at factors such as mental health and education to determine if he has been rehabilitated. The court never found a motive for the killing, but did acknowledge Townsen's rocky road to this courtroom today. A home life plagued with drug use and abuse and time spent living on the streets. All right, so let me get to the the bottom of all this. Um, on Facebook, tell me the the name you go by. They call me Shiron. Everybody calls you Shiron. Okay. What else? What else? What else your And I don't know how to say it right because I don't have a Facebook, but I've started to learn a little bit about it. Clearly not enough. But what is your name on Facebook? Tommy. Tommy. And that's Townsen. So it looks something like something like this. Yeah. Okay. And you're shaking your head. Yes, that means that's that's it. Okay. So, it's it says, and I don't know how you put this, but it's just T M y Townsen, your same last name, right? You know what? It it'd be better if you sit over here closer to and let me sit over here. Put you a little closer. Musical chairs. Chinese fire drill. All right. You might be too young for that. You know what a Chinese fire drill is? Chinese fire drill is kind of like this. You remember when you was a little kid and everybody got around the table and they said like duck duck goose. Somebody ran ran around the table. That's kind of like a Chinese fire drill. Everybody gets up and changes spots. But I'm not going to get up. You just get up. Do you recognize this guy right here? Daryl. Daryl. What does he go by on Facebook? Daryl. What is There's another name that he goes by. It's something Daryl 21st up or something like that. K's up too Daryl. K's up Daryl. Yeah. So he goes by K's up Daryl on Facebook. All right. And you recognize that picture of Daryl. Okay. Do you recognize these pictures? No. My pictures I upload it. Okay. And how do you do that? You take the picture with your phone and then you just hit a button or something and it uploads to your Facebook. Is that how that works? Okay. That shirt is that like one of those Hollister shirts. Yeah, I got a few of those, too. I used to call myself a surfer, but too old now. All right. Um, and we'll go over your your Facebook in just a second. If you recognize the show, a young lady here Facebook stuff. You recognize this young lady? That's my ex. That's your ex girl. Is uh you her true love? I'm her first love. First love. That's what I meant. First love. I guess true love was the wrong word. Is that Are you her first love and she's your first love? Yeah. Do you know how old she is? How old do you think she is? 13. 13. Yeah, she's 13. 13 years old. And that's And you What do you call her? Zarya. Zeria. Okay. Zeria. And on Facebook, it's Zaria Doe. Like DE. Yeah. Okay. All right. The detective keeps the tone light and friendly. Although this is a serious crime, Townsen is only 12 years old and scaring him will not help the interrogation. We'll find out more about what happened next after a quick word from our sponsor. How many of you wish there was a better solution to paying off your debt. PDS Debt has customized 0% interest options for anyone struggling with credit cards, personal loans, collections, or medical bills. With inflation on the rise and gas prices hitting all-time highs, now is the time to get serious about a better plan to pay off your debt. Everyone with over $10,000 or more in debt qualifies. And there is no minimum credit score required. If you're making payments every month on your debt and your balances aren't going down, this program is for you. PDS Debt is giving my viewers free debt savings analysis just for completing their 302 online debt assessment at pdsbt.com/strange. You'll receive a full breakdown on how to save on interest each month and the quickest way to take care of your debt. You can start taking back your financial freedom right now by visiting pdsbt.com/strange. This is Zaria and that's your your girl. Are you still going with her? No. What happened? She broke up. You broke up. She broke up. You broke up. Was she doing something wrong? You should have She was talking to my cousin. Uh oh. Like talking to her. Talking to her boy. Okay. So that was kind of foul. Who's your cousin? He's not my real cous. She already know how to talk to him. Yeah. Right. Okay. Do you um do you hang out in the 103rd Street area? Not no more. Not no more. When were you used to um when you hung out in the 103rd Street area? Do you ever hang around Indian lakes or Westchase? Sometimes. Sometimes. Didn't you used to live in Indian Lakes? Yes, ma'am or no, ma'am? Yes, ma'am. Okay. Thank you. I don't want to mistake a headshake. Okay. So, where did Zarya live? She used to No, me and her met in school. Okay. Then like the way she walked home, she had to walk towards our way. She used to take my way. Yeah. Go to our house. Right. Okay. Now, he's a little older than you, right? How old is he? Like 15, 16. Okay. Do you know where he is now? No. He's at jail. He got uh he got arrested for something. So, the reason that I'm here today is is I'm going to try to make it as simple as possible. Okay? You're a young boy. How many times you been in trouble? One. Just once, right? Okay. And it was for the the burglary that you're on paper for. Okay. I see that your mom made a missing person report on you. You aware of that? Yeah. What was that all about? What was you going missing for? Got man caught the bus, right? She said you left in a red car on the police report. Did you leave with some boys in a red car? It was no boys. It was these girls. Okay. Some girls came to pick you up in a red car and you decided to go hang out with them. How long were you gone from your mom's for like a week? A week. A week or maybe two? What do you think? Probably more like two. Yeah. Listen, in that two weeks that you were kind of hanging out, I know how it gets. You know, your mom has rules and she wants you to be in it. What time does she want you to be in? 9:30. 9:30 in the summer. Well, no wonder. What time did you want to stay out till? Was we was going I was going to parties. Parties? What were you doing at parties at 12? I'm sure everybody be right. Were you uh doing drugs at the parties? No, you didn't do any drugs. How about any alcohol? Were you getting drunk? So, what were you doing at night? It was none of that was I was like a sweet city, but it was tricking and all that. I gota was tricking. What do you know about tricking? you 12. You know what? Some of the stuff that uh I know you're on your your friend's Facebook there, your 20F, Daryl, you remember seeing this picture on his Facebook? Remember seeing that? never showed this picture. He never showed you that picture. That's on his Facebook. I didn't know if you had ever had ever seen it on his Facebook. Yes. No. Does it look familiar? No. How about that one? You ever see that one? I came across that one looking at it. Yeah. You see ever see that picture? You see that picture? You know who that is? Who? I'm asking you. Do you know who that is right there? Yeah. Who is that? Daryl. Who's that right there? I saw him. I don't talk to him like that. Okay. You ever know Daryl had a brother? Did Coy check the brothers? But I didn't know if it was blood or not. Blood or not? Okay. All right. So, this picture is Daryl and a guy that you just know. Do you I like talk to him. I got his name and all that. Okay, I got it. And you've not seen this picture on his Facebook, but you have seen this one that one time, right? Which one is which one is Daryl? That one in the middle with the white tank top on. What's it look like? He's holding a gun. A gun. Slowly, the detective introduces the subject of guns, showing Townsen pictures of his friends on Facebook. She continues to be non-threatening and Townsen does not seem frightened or upset. Although a child his age in the same situation should be at least a little nervous. The gun, this is some information that we pulled from his site and it tells me below that this is one of the pictures. I've got the actual thing itself, but this is just a picture. What does that look like? A gun. A gun. Does it look fake to you? No. No. Didn't look fake to me either. I was just wondering it. What was your opinion? That one's kind of hard to say. But what do you think that is? Is that a real gun? I don't know. Yeah, it's hard to see, isn't it? But you can tell it's some sort of gun whether it's real or not. Are you in this picture at all? I don't see you. No. No. Doesn't he hang out with little older boys? I guess I only saw where his brother and sister. Yeah, brothers. All right. So, you know Zary, this is definitely you. Keep that up top. All right. And let's talk about your Facebook. This is you, Tommy Townsen. Mhm. And that says [ __ ] playing with stick. They ain't even got that was a movie status, right? All I was watching the gun movie. All them is movie statuses. Just talking about guns. Yep. Right. I got the movie in my house, too. Okay. And what what about guns? Is it fascinating to you? Do you like guns? No, it was a movie. It was It was It was It was shooting through the whole Mostly shooting through the whole movie. They're just shooting. Yeah. Have you ever put your hands on a gun? No. Let me let me explain to you in the position that where you're sitting right now. Okay. There's an incident that happened and I know a lot of information about the incident. And when I said that Daryl was actually in jail, what I really have to say is he was picked up earlier in the month, I believe the 10th, and he is sitting in a room over here. So, we've talked with him and he shed a lot of light on some things, but the one thing that you have to do now is you're going to have to tell me why I should believe what you're going to tell me. Okay. Do you ever um do you ever like on TV you see things that police put on the television and it's like a little movie or something or a little picture and they say this is what happened and or you watch TV at first 48 and they go here's a movie picture of what's going on and people go oh crap that's me okay well here's here's a here's a fact almost everywhere you go now there's some sort of video camera. Okay? Whether it be the front, the back, the side, the vacant building side, across the street side, the McDonald's, the chic. There's all sorts of places that have video now. And why is that? A lot of reasons. People think it's a little safer if something happens to their business or something happens to their house or their car, they at least have it on video. Okay? Is that fair enough to assume? Okay. So, the situation is I've got some things we want to talk about with you. There's a shopping center up there on 103rd where sometimes the homeless guys hang out. You ever run across some of them? They ain't there. You ever run across homeless guys anywhere? Well, sometimes at the front near their safari store. Yeah. What do you know what they go by? Any of their names? Cuz Daryl knew the guy named Wolverine. They called him. Yeah. Wolverine. The tall one. Yeah. Right. The tall one. Yeah. And that's how I'm asking you. Did So, you know Wolf? Did you know any of the other guys? Did you know Wolf had a brother? No. Yeah, he has a brother. Did you know any of the other homeless guys that hung out around that shop? Wolverine. I knew him because he always used to he always used to walk through the neighborhood. Yeah. Well, did he you know what panhandling is where they beg for money? Did he always do that? Sometimes. Sometimes. But usually he'll be out cutting yards or doing something. Right. Okay. Well, how about any of the other homeless people? Did you ever run into any of them in anywhere on along 103rd or in that shopping center by Safari or over by subway like the liquor store? Yeah, the pool hole. The the pool hole. Yeah. Which ones do you run into over there? Do you know any of them what they look like or by name? No, it was the black guy that always wanted the red shirt in the hat. Okay. And then you know Wolf. Yeah. Wolverine and this fat guy. Okay. Okay. How about um you know on 103rd where the there was an old abandoned Pizza Hut and then an abandoned hamburger place. It was either Rallies or Checkers. You know where I'm talking about beside the Chic. It goes Yeah. Where the um where we shop at? Mhm. Yeah. It's the is McDonald's, then Chic, then the old Pizza Hut, then the old Checker Rallies, and then the back of that it's a seafood restaurant, and then there's a tattoo place. You know where I'm talking. Talzen seems almost disinterested. He acts just like any other board teenager and he lacks the hardened attitude of someone involved in gangs or other criminal activities. About the tattoo parlor, they call it Nerds Inc. Yeah. Um that whole plaza front and back between there through 103rd, they all have video. They all have very good video. So, I want to know now if this is making any sense to you as to why I'm asking you some of these questions. They said a man was over there. Yeah. What man? A homeless guy. The homeless guy. What do you have ever seen? The homeless guy over there when we at the end of the year. Oh, yeah. One time. Yeah. Where was he? At the the tuna. He was sitting on the ground at a tuna thing across McDonald's in a mechanic shop and everybody was walking from forest. Mhm. Did anybody say anything to him or just left him alone? No. Everybody was Well, he was going across the street. People was walking his way. Do you know where a wolf lays his head at night? Where he sleeps? No. Usually they all usually all be in that box right there like what's the latest right there? Just I know. Is it the old Pizza Hut by the Chic? Hidden and near breakfast store. Yeah, the Chic. Mhm. Yeah. Little box right there. There's a shed. Otherwise known as a shed. A box of shed. Same thing. All right. Um, did you ever see anybody homeless sleeping at that abandoned hamburger place? the rallies or the No, they always used to be either on the side where all the bricks sit or in that little box. Okay. Did you ever see a an older man kind of sometimes you'd have a walker um white man older older than smaller and older than than Wolf. Wolf's kind of a tall guy. He gets around pretty good. You ever see the guy they call uh Thomas? Thomas. older older guy, stringy hair. He kind of he's kind of sickly, you know. He kind of he got a lot of sicknesses, so he I know the black guy named Tommy. Something like that. Okay. Yeah, it should be something like that. Thomas. No, I got to probably see him first. Okay. I saw I know a lot. See this right here? See this right here? Mhm. See that shirt? See that shirt? Who is this? Me. Who is this? Daryl. Okay. Do you know when this was taken? When's walking to McDonald's? You think so? It's not walking McDonald's. What time do you think you're walking to McDonald's at this little incident right here? Around 10 or 11 p.m. Clock at night. Yeah. 10 11. Let me show you something else. Should have read me what that says. 225. Right. That's you and Daryl. And this is not near the McDonald's. Yeah. That's right near the um going towards the subway right there. Mhm. It is. See that? See where this is? This is 2:25 in the morning on Saturday. The date you can't see is 06 28 2014. And when was that? That was right before your mom reported you missing. You know what I mean? She reported you missing like the first of the month, July 1st. Yeah. Okay. So, that's you and Daryl walking down the sidewalk. See that? Same thing. 2:25 in the moment. See that? See what time that is? 2:32, right? You see what this is? This is another back view. Instead of making accusations or asking leading questions, the detective lays out the evidence for Townsen. He tries to claim that the video is from a different time and location, but he doesn't argue when timestamps and camera angles prove exactly where he was. Here's the point. This is a big day for you. And believe me, I have these are two different videos. These are a couple pictures from two different videos in which I have all the way down the sidewalk past the dental office, past Nerds, Inc. behind the building to the next building, and then back down that alley, past the dumpsters, and all the way back through the alley toward the auto parts store. Son, I'm not asking you if you and Daryl were somewhere at 2:25 in the morning on a Saturday 6:28 2014. And I'm not asking you if you ran through the alley cuz that's the picture of Daryl. The one of you is just as clear. I promise you. And I'm not asking you if you were with Daryl. I'm asking you which one are you? Which one of you wants to spend the rest of your life in prison? I'm asking you to be honest today so that I can talk to the people I need to talk to and explain to them that a 12-year-old boy might have made a huge mistake being with the wrong person. Okay? You have to understand me. I know what happened. I'm not dumb. This is not my first day. There was a there was a while from some years ago I worked a case very similar to this with a young man about your age and it was a terrible outcome. Same as this terrible outcome. Okay. That young man and his mom were standup people and they came in and they told what they needed to tell. Okay. Someone son look at me. Someone lost their life. Now, I know a lot more than what I'm just telling you. I can't tell you everything I know. If you're willing to sit down and talk with me, I'll spell every dog on thing out for you. Not going to hide anything from you. But today, today, Chiron, Ronnie, Tommy Townsen needs to be able to tell the truth. Do not let someone point a finger at you. Okay. This man was killed by an individual. You want your name on it or you want Daryl's? Okay. I'm not asking you, son, if you were there. I know you were. And all I'm asking you to do now is to tell me the truth about what happened. This man's family deserves it. Your mom came in that neighborhood because she saw that video on TV that I put. She knew that was you. I know it's you. I only put on TV and I'm only showing you a very small portion. I have an 8 gigabyte thumb drive that is full to the rim of pictures, videos, front, back, your front, your back, your side, your corner. I've got this entire incident. I'm not BSing you. I'm not. But if you take the wrong path today, it's going to be very, very tough on you. Your mom's trying to raise you, right? She came out there and found your little behind, didn't she? To say, "You're coming home." And since whatever day, first of the month, when she reported you missing, she got on her J O like any good mom would do. She came out there, she found you some kind of way. She was calling all kind of people. She was calling Zarya's dad. Did you know that? Zarya must have called you from her dad's phone at some point. She called Zarya's dad screaming at him wondering where you were. She brought your butt over there to Sherwood so you would not be out there with these hoodlams doing these things right here. Okay? That's why she did it. She does not want you in any more trouble. And neither do I. Neither do I. I'm not talking rough to you. I'm not going to yell at you. I'm not going to scream at you. But this man's family deserves me to tell him the truth. And I can't tell him the truth until you're willing to what you're going to tell me. Do you think I don't already know? Would I be here tonight with you if I didn't already know this? I know this is not what you wanted to do today. And I see it in your eyes. The tears in your eyes that are about to come out. You feel bad for what happened. Townsen hadn't been left with many options. There is no way for him to lie and say he was somewhere else. And it all comes down to him confessing to shooting the gun himself or telling them that his friend was the one to pull the trigger. Townsen is trying to contain his emotions even though it would look better for him during his trial if he showed remorse for his actions. I mean, it's a difference in somebody. Are you the type of person that just doesn't care about anybody and you're just that evil at 12? I don't know any 12-year-old almost 13. I don't know any kid your age that could be evil like that. Are you evil? No. Well, I don't think you are. I think that you hanging around Daryl has put you in a bad spot. I promise it has. You got to come to terms with this. It's got to come out your mouth. Who did what so I can clearly understand. I need to know a couple things. I need to know who did what and what happened to the stick. As you say, I know what happened to that gun. All right. Well, is it was it Daryl's gun? It's not a It's not a Listen, do you think I don't know this already? You think I wouldn't have been doing my homework if I didn't see this stuff? And guess what? Well, I don't know who gun this is, right? Or that one. Which one did you see him with that night? Who was walking? He didn't have one. It was before that. Okay. Well, when before that did he pick up a gun? And who did he get? Do you know who he got it from? Or did he have it hidden somewhere? Where did he get it from? Was walking past in the back of Timothy Landing. Okay. We're sitting right there in the box. Okay. Where is Timothy Landing? Explain. Tell me where that's out. Is it off 103rd? Yeah. West Chase. You can go through a back cut right there. Okay. So, y'all were out walking. No, first they was already planning on going to the pool. So, the pool like the pool hall? No, the pool. Well, this is daytime, right? Okay. No, wait. What time? Cuz the pool was right now. N that pool be open. That port don't close until like 12. Okay. It was like 8 9. Okay. So, 8 or 9 walking past. Okay. And my the flash was on before I lost my phone. Okay. And he said, "Look at that box." What kind of box? Like a power box or like a shoe box? A shoe box. All right. like a pound Nike box. When Where was this box at? Just laying somewhere in the pond. Like it's a little creek right there, but I don't got that much water. It's mostly sand at the bottom of it. And this is the And there's just the box laying there like just the pond right there. The bushes. Okay. Right there. Okay. And this is in the Timothy Landing. You're saying you got a little pond right there. All kinds of stuff back there. Okay. So he tells you to look in the box and and who and that we're talking about Daryl. Yeah. He said look at the box and I didn't go he went to go get it. It was in there. Okay. And what was in there? Gun, right? Is it a revolver or do you know the difference between a revolver and a semi-automatic? The clip gun. Which one was it? It was just like that. But it wasn't this one. It was like it was like little small one. A small gun. Okay. Was it black or It was silver. Okay. Small silver. So, he actually picked it up from the shoe box. It was silver and it had a brown handle. Okay. Silver and brown handle. Had you ever seen him with that before or that was the first time? First time. All right. Did you ever put your hands on that gun? No. Never. Look me in my face. No. No. It was in the system. So, you didn't want to put a gun in your hand? All right. So, it's a small silver gun with a brown handle. All right. And you got it from the box by the pond at Timothy Landing. All right. So, and this is around What time did you tell me again? No. Was it dark? Was it dark? It was getting there. Okay. Getting dark. And you said the flash was still on your phone. Was you using the flashlight thing to be able to see to get to the box? Okay. No, walking past like I didn't even had to walk towards the box. All I had to do was keep walking towards the gate. Okay. Cuz the gate go like this. Then you go down and go right back up. Why did you decide you didn't want to go to the box? Did he already tell you there was something in there? Some fire in there? No. He said he the one I he the one who peaked the box. He said look at that box. He said my flash is storing so I turned it that way. Right. Did you take any pictures of it? Okay. So Daryl picks up. It sounds like Townsen's friend had a specific goal in mind and may have intended for Townsen to take the fall the entire time. He may have taken inspiration from certain gangs that recruit younger children to commit crimes, knowing they will receive a lighter sentence. Gun. Where do y'all go from there? To the pool. After that, me and Daryl left. Where'd you go? Well, I went back to the neighborhood. Daryl left for like an hour or two and we went everybody was in back at the neighborhood. Went to the pool hall. Went back to the neighborhood cuz it was well they were they was all drinking and stuff out there. Talking about the the people that were at the bar hall. Yeah. Then they went back and had something over there in the back. You mean drugs? And then they had a get together like a party drinking out. A party. Okay. Damn. We walk to McDonald's. Mhm. Did this old man do something to make Daryl mad? Did he call him out? I know he sometimes I've heard that he would call people out because he didn't like young people. Did he say something to Daryl? He was laying on the ground. He was laying on the ground. Okay. Where was he laying on the ground at? Beside the building, beside the parking lot on uh like in the parking lot like he wasn't on nothing. He was laying on the ground. Was he talking? No, he was just sitting there and I was I was like, "Do I bet you $5 won't go touch him." He was like, "Hell no, I'm not going over there." So, we kept walking to McDonald's. Well, bet. He was still right there. Okay. Were y'all walking to McDonald's to get something to eat or were you just walking to McDonald's? No, I had he the phone we had the phone got cut off after she got mad. Cut the phone off. Went out there for Wi-Fi. We got something to drink and and I Yeah, I did get a dollar cookies. Yeah, but we mostly went out there for Wi-Fi. Okay. At the ro city where this girl was at, she said she out of town and we left. Okay. And then when you left, what happened? near the dumpster right there. It was rat right there and we ran through the cut. Seriously? No. Do you know what kind of a story I just heard from uh Daryl that it was completely not what you're telling me? And if y'all were at the same place at the same time, it wouldn't be about that. Listen, the last thing you want to do I don't know what time it was. It was dark. I didn't say Well, I didn't ask you about what time, son. I didn't ask you what time. Okay. It doesn't matter what time. I know what time. I got the time on the pictures. What you're done understanding is the video watches what you're doing, coming and going through this whole area. That tattoo shop, it has cameras on the front, the back, the side, the alley, and they all point that direction. I could show you your little tail running from way before that. And I'm not going to keep feeding you this because you know what it makes me what what's going to happen is they're going to scrutinize me and say, "Well, maybe he's the cold blooded killer. Maybe he's the one that punched the fire." And I'm going to tell you what else I'm not going to fall for. That that old man had a knife and tried to stab at y'all because he didn't. I might have heard that already, too. Okay. I'm trying very hard. I said an individual killed this man. Yes, he did. Ask my little brother. When when I got that knife, I took it, washed it off in my sink with a napkin, wrapped it up in napkin, taped it around, and dropped it in the sewer. The gun? No, that that knife. It was knife like this. Okay. I asked my little brother what color it was. It was red on the back of it like a marker and it was black. Okay. So, how did you get the knife from the man? Would the man threaten you with a knife? The first time he walked past? Okay. So, the first time he walked past him, he threatened you with a knife. How did you get the knife? Did you have to fuss with him or did you just sneak up on him and take it from him? Because I might know the answer to this. You're not giving me enough credit for knowing these answers already. Listen, this stuff here, it doesn't lie. The stuff I put out in the video, do you think I could put that to the public? What really really What really really is on there? I can't scare people like that. I'm not allowed. I'm not allowed. But here's the thing. What you What you really need to figure this out right now is at the end of this, you need me way more than I need you. You need me to believe that you did not shoot that man. That's what you need me to believe. And then you need me to be able to prove you did not shoot that man. Okay. Townsen tries to lie about what happened, but the detective isn't letting him get away with that. Once again, she points out the video evidence and tells him she already knows what happened. When asked how he got the knife, Townsen goes quiet. Obviously, not having gotten that far in thinking out his story. See, I've already heard these stories. I already knew about this knife. I know about it because I know what I've been told and I know what I can prove and I know what I've seen on video. Okay. We shot him where the gun at. Well, just because you shot him and I don't I haven't showed you a picture of that specific gun. How do you know? I'm just saying where the gun at. What did I ask you? I needed two things. I needed to know from your mouth, are you gonna say Daryl shot or are you gonna say you shot? I need to know which one you're gonna say. And then secondly, I need to know what you're going to say happened to the gun. And you may not know, hell, you got your butt taken out of there. Your mom came and got you. Daryl's mom did not come and get him. I know Daryl's sister was kind of hanging out in Westchase and, you know, he's kind of out there doing what he wants to do. Your mom didn't let that fly. Your mom came and got your behind. So, you may not even know. I don't know. I'm not going to not going to gloss over and make a story up to you. I said I wanted to know out of your mouth what happened to that gun. If if you took it and threw it in the river, well, then that's what you tell me. If you say Daryl took it and after that, have you seen Daryl since then? Since this? No. Okay. So, how if Daryl had it? You may not even know what he did with it. That could be the truth. I don't know. After this, they said I went back over there. They said Daryl got locked up again for something else. Daryl got locked up around the 10th of the month for a robbery. Yeah. Well, they said they said he got a grand theft charge for carjack jumping and he crashed. Yeah. Then after they say he crashed, I'm like weird. So I rode the bike up the way they say in the Walmart in the middle of the street. So I rode up there went nothing up there. They was like, "Oh no, there was somebody else such and such." Then when um a couple a couple days later I went back, they said he got caught with a deadly weapon, something like that. Well, whatever they said, it it doesn't matter. It's what what I can show on paper and what I can prove. And the case that he's involved in is a robbery and it's it is involving a car. He did leave in the man's car and he was caught by the police and bit by a dog. Okay. Yeah. So, here's the thing. Don't you think he's very motivated to point the finger at you? I would be if she and I did something wrong and I didn't want to get in trouble. It's just common nature. I'm going to blame her. Okay. In the same way, she'd probably blame me. It's what people do. I got kids. She's got kids. That's what kids do. That's what kids do, you know. But here's the thing. There's more that I know that I I keep telling you. I can't tell you everything I know. Cuz if I did, then you'd know it. And you'd say it and then you'd say, "The only reason I told you is because you told me. I told you all that because you told me. I can't do that. I can't do it. I got to get to the truth a certain way." Okay, let's go back to this knife thing. How how did you get this knife away from this man? He was laying on the ground and I went up to go get it from the side right there. Okay. Where was he keeping it at? Near this plastic bag. Okay. What kind of plastic bag? A plastic bag. I know. But I mean, is it like a plastic bag? Like a grocery bag? Is it like a bag that you put trash in? Is it like a plastic bag that you carry groceries? like a store bag. Store bag. Okay. So, it wasn't on him. So, you came up and got it from the bag, right? Okay. And but he wasn't threatening you at that point with it, right? Mhm. No, after that when we were actually actually like when we walked past she was on the ground. Yeah. Okay. Well, you're leaving out the part about you know you you Here's here's I want you to think about this a second. You tell me that Daryl's got a gun. You tell me that y'all have walked past him. You've seen him. And then you know what else you tell me? I don't know how he got shot cuz you do. And you know what? You know how somebody told you um yeah I'm not believing that about the whole you know knife thing. I'm going to tell you the same thing. If you want to see these people ever in your life, you do not want somebody to point the finger at you and put that gun in your hand cuz you just clearly told me Daryl had that gun. People are not going to just sit back and do nothing about what happens to them. The same way I would expect you to not do that as well. You know, again, your your family seems to care about you enough because they're here with you first and foremost. They came with you. You think Daryl's mom's down here? She's not. She's not. Like most kids trying to get out of trouble, Townsen continues to lie about what happened. At his age, he is most likely used to only having to repeat a halfway believable lie and having people eventually give up doing anything about it. This time, the trouble he is in isn't going away. And I can't tell you how many times enough that I know that one of you two shot that man. Now, if you want me to believe it's you, then you keep sitting there acting like it isn't. What' you tell her? We was on the phone. She never What? What' you tell her? She never asked about nothing. That's not true. What' you tell her? She didn't ask about nothing. What? What did you tell her? I didn't ask you what she asked. I said, "What did you tell her about what happened?" She she was like she said well she was on the we was on the phone first then her dad called then she said who that I guess she put it on the three-way I could hear him talking too so talking about such and such that boy was on the news such and such damn talking what then he was like the detectives coming to our house to come talk to Then after that they kept talking. So I just set the phone down, put it on speaker till she hung up. She was like, "My dad," I was like, "I heard it already." She was like, "Well, I told her, "Don't tell don't I told her, don't tell them my name, right? Tell tell the police your name." Right? I said, "Don't tell." But see, here's here's the thing. I already knew your name because people at Indian Lakes gave me your name already because they saw the video as well. Everyone saw this video and guess what? Everyone said it was you. So, I already had your name. She didn't have to give me your name. Do you think we've talked to her? I don't know. They probably did. What do you think? What do you think she told us that you said? I don't care what she said. Well, what did you tell her? She pressured you to find out what you did. And you told her about the knife. The story about the knife. Right around knew about the knife, too. Cuz no, my little brother, he he was doing after I set it down, he picked it up. So I weren't woring about it. Then he started playing with it. So I took it from him. I washed it off. Then I put this detergent on it. Washed it off. Wrapped it up with the tape and neck and dropped it in the shower. Okay. Where at? In front of my house. That's my little button. He was right there. I came outside and I dropped it in the shower. Okay. I'm going to go back. No rats chased you out of the You didn't run because of the rats. You know why? If you uh and and let me tell you something. If I got to go and and make you a believer, it's going to be me feeling like maybe you are a cold blooded killer. You see what's on his head? A shirt, right? And nobody needs to run from rats with their [ __ ] shirt on their head. It just doesn't happen. You got a shirt. He's got a shirt on his head. And see, here's the thing. I got your little narrow behind running in that alley, too. And it ain't from rats, son. That ain't the only spot. This is the corner. This is a whole video. This video goes from 223 and a half, 224 all the way through the other end of that dog on alley up to the auto parts, the the liquor store. So, it's not a question that y'all ran from rats. That is a terrible story. That is terrible. That's the worst one. No corner right there. That's near the gate. Soon out. The trash can is right here. As soon as you walk out and you guys ran, there was a car sitting here and you guys ran straight down that alley. No question. You weren't running from rats. He's hiding his face for a reason. You don't take your shirt off and hide your head to run from rats. That's just not true. And if you're willing to tell me a lie about that, you've come so far. You've come far enough to understand. Who do you think's going to believe that? No one is going to believe that. And I'll tell you why. Because I will show them conclusive video from this angle showing y'all run all the way through the back of that parking lot. Not just here. Run right past them trash cans into that back alley. And where did you come from? You came from down here. and you walked all the way up the front and you cut between the buildings and then you went back over that way. And listen, here's the thing. If that man threatened you and that's why y'all went back there to straighten it out, then say it. The detective points out how ridiculous Townsen's lie about the rats sound and shows him that there is extensive footage of him running from the scene of the crime. She even gives him a reason why he could have been there. Although if it is true that he had been threatened and went back, it opens up the possibility for a charge of premeditated murder. Don't sit with, "Well, he had a gun and the guy threatened us with a knife earlier." So when I went back the second time, I went ahead and sneaked his knife and I cleaned it off and I threw it in the sewer and somehow he ended up dead. Bull. That's bull. No one buys that. It's bull. Why'd you throw the knife in the sewer? But I'mma do with it. You threw it just to get away. Get rid of it. No. What else? Nothing to do with it. Well, when I'm stuff, I don't throw it. They said get it out the house. What I was going to do. Who said get it out of the house? My mom. My stepdad. They said get it out the house. Did they know whose it was? No. Did they ask you? No. So, your mom and your stepdad said, "Get the knife out of the house." I set the knife down. He was playing with it. She said, "Take the knife and get it out the house." After this night, after this all happens and y'all run down the alley, you don't come home for several days. Your mom still reported you missing after this. I know. I was So, you were gone for several days. What are you doing? Carrying around this man's knife for several days? No. Okay. I had a bay. Okay. Okay. So, you hid it in your bag and when your mom picks you up, it wasn't hiding cuz it was in my bag. Okay. So, you kept the knife in your bag for several days and then when you got home, you told your mom you had a knife or did she find it in your bag? She didn't find it in my bag. Okay. Then you told her it was there. He's out. Okay. He picked it up. He is who? My little brother. She said, "How old is he? He turned 10. Turned 10 this year. He nine." Okay. So, your brother ends up getting it and your mom says, "Get rid of it." She said, "Yeah, the both of them said take it out the house." Okay. They didn't ask you where you got it from or whose it was. Okay. And once again, if the man threatens you with a knife and you guys went back to straighten this out, I need to hear that. And if I don't hear that, I have to assume I have to guess that y'all just went to straight up kill this man. Were you trying? Did you think you had some money? No, I had money on me. I had to get nobody money. So, okay. So, you didn't need any money from N. So, y'all just did it for fun? I had $150 on me that night. Y'all just did it for fun. Was it fun? You're going to have to get get past this. No, no one no one in their right mind is going to believe this little crazy craziness. I know you don't. There there's two options in my mind. Either you don't want to tell on your buddy or you don't want to tell on yourself. Cuz one of the two of y'all shot this man. If I believe Daryl, it's you. If I believe you, I got to hear it to believe it. To be honest, it's just that simple. Don't Don't sit and live by if you're if you're trying to live by a code so that you don't tell on Daryl, the heat's on you. The heat's on you as well as it is on him. You really don't get how good these these videos are. I mean, dude, don't when I saw the front of your shirt and then you cut your hair. Why'd you cut your hair? Saw yourself on the video. Said, "Woo!" No, she said she been I've been getting my haircut before that. Yeah, your mom's talking about your mom's was going to get your haircut. She said, "I'm tired of seeing that with you on your head." Right. I've been s was ready to get this cut. Okay. And before I even got this cut all the way, I chopped it off halfway. She said no. Cut all of it off. Good. I'm glad she did. You're not from here in Jackson, Florida, are you? No. No. How long have you been here? A year. A year. Does your parents move here for the year and then that's why I got married down here? Okay. So, you got a stepdad here. Okay. You care about your mom? About your little 10-year-old little brother? Care about your stepdad? How about your real dad? Is he in your life? Yep. Okay. So, all these people that you care about, they obviously care about you, right? Yep. And what do you think if I told them this little silly story, they know you real real good? You think they're going to fall for this story, too? No one as good as they know you. I I guarantee you your mom's not because she knew. She saw this video. Townsen's story falls apart. even more when the timeline of events doesn't match his claims. The whole scenario with the knife doesn't make any logical sense. He's uncomfortable, but still not ready to confess. And said, "Holy crap, I got to find him." He didn't really mind no video. It was I saw the video myself. He was only walking past, right? That's only a part of That's what you see. That's what you're getting to see. If you play the odds in this and roll the dice, the way that you get to find out is a really bad way. It's a really bad way. Who else did you tell that you did this? No. Bye. Well, believe me, she didn't want to tell. You're You are definitely her, what' you say? First love. Not true love, first love. You are definitely her first love. She said you begged her not to tell. Big beg. Said you cannot tell. please. You cannot tell. And she didn't just show up and tell us. We had to go find her. Cuz you know what? Her dad was very suspicious of you. Like some dads are going to be that way to boys. Just so you know, when their little girls are involved. Somebody I didn't talk to right there. I I was always talking to her step. I don't even know where I did. Well, she she has a apparently your mom had his number cuz she probably was calling. That's when that's when she ran away. Said her mom put her out and she her mom told her to go back with her real dad. Yeah. And then she called my mom phone off Yeah. She called my mom phone off her phone. Absolutely. That's why your mom had she was calling every number she could to get you get you out of trouble. No, she called took her after I text her on Facebook. She was like, "Who doing?" She didn't call for 3 days after that. So, she wanted to call the area number. So, you saying she just left you out there for three extra days after I said when I told her, "Let's get on the phone." She was like, "Hold up. I'm trying to get the phone right now." And she still didn't get it. So, I was worried about it. Then I woke up, the phone was ringing. And who was it? It was her on the phone. Her mean your mom or was Okay. So she's the only one that you told. Did you trust her? And my mom. You told your mom that you did this? No. She saw it on the witch. She asked what happened. What' you tell her? Did you tell your mom the same story you told her? She She really didn't ask nothing. She was like She didn't really ask nothing. She was saying it like she was saying it like I did it like I did it to be smart and told her stop thinking that. And who your mom or Zary? Zary. Zory thinks you did it to be a big big No, because she already know when I get mad, I'm not gonna stop what I'm about to do. So, you got a hot temper? Yep. Okay. What makes you have a hot temper? What What makes you click like that? I got to take medicine for my temper, but Okay. Did you take it today? I hope. No. No. Why you didn't take your medicine? Did he do something to make you mad? Did he call you a name? An ugly name like I've heard he's called some of them other kids or did he call Daryl an ugly name? Is that what is that? What happened? I'm trying to give you every hour. He's racist off top. He's racist. Yes, I've heard that. I've heard that. Okay. I'm not surprised at that. I've heard that. I've uh I've definitely heard that. I need the bathroom. Absolutely. Yeah. Hold on. We'll get a guy to take you. Okay. Absolutely. You can definitely hear this. Go to the bathroom. I got to go to the bathroom, too. I don't blame you. You need a drink while I'm out there. Get you a drink. No. Okay. All right, y'all. Come on here a second. Let me get you the chair, get the other papers, and I'll be right back in. Okay. All right. Thank you. Townsen has confessed to having a bad temper, and things aren't looking good for him. His family has been brought in, and this may help get him to finally tell the truth about what happened. Ronnie. Yeah. Hey, come on. Smoke you. You better tell what you seen. Yes. You sure better. You better tell the truth. [ __ ] Either way, you going to do your little time. You'll be all right though. As long as you that boy, he right next to her. No, I heard I heard though. He was like I heard everything whatever [ __ ] type girl heard. He said, he said something about I shot the man and said staying for one night in the I said I was going to Zor something. They got mug shots heard too. They all on your Facebook. I told you you stupid [ __ ] So you can say nothing about that. She ain't seen my tattoos and I told you don't sign no papers. going to talk to you. What paper is your son? Don't mind reading your rights. Yeah. And your dad lady tell them. He said, "Yeah, he tell don't talk to her." I said, "No." He said, "If you don't say nothing, they going to smoke. They your whole life is give flash before you see the dead light of day. No time. You going to be pass charge you as a dope cuz you going right across the street right here to this county and then they going to transfer to Lake Butler or they might transform to these jails ain't no game boy you a little [ __ ] boy you don't know that rape you ain't all that [ __ ] in there and ain't nobody going was just telling me he said kid just go back there don't cuss him out just let them know me and have to go to jail we don't know how long yet But you're going to do some time. Mhm. More than five too cuz accessory that's like a [ __ ] like you killed the [ __ ] and they all want you. She didn't tell you what they was charging for me yet. No, not yet. Cuz she want you a confession. She want you to tell what happened. Mhm. She want you to tell your part, the truth, not no lies. You sitting here watching us recording this? I don't give a damn. I know. I'm just I don't give a [ __ ] They could watch me all day and all night. They tired. So you going to tell them what happened. Told you first. You want to tell that [ __ ] Tell me. You going to tell me cuz he locked up already. [ __ ] Yeah. He been in trouble. Hell yeah. Plenty of time. Just tell you they going to tell. All right. Got as many as I could grab at one time of all the stuff that I've shown to to him. Um there were two forms that we went through. This was the first one. This was the second one. I'm going to go through a third one just so you understand it's the same exact one. Nothing nothing's going to change. Um the place is the police memorial building. We call that the PMBB. It's police memorial building. The date is now Oh, I think it's August 1st. We have 31 days in. Do we have it? Okay. So 7:31 14 and it's five minutes after midnight. So that's zero military time. That's 005 hours. Um this is Chiron. S H A R R O N Townsen. Seir, what was your birthday again, sweetie? 10801. 108. October 8, 2001. Okay. 01. All right. Um, how y'all figured out who he was in the picture? The boy told people, lots of people called him and told. We put it on the news and a whole bunch of char. Can you uh dummy? Can you read? Okay. Say you got to I don't want to mistake your headshake. Remember we went through this. Yes or no? I want to make sure I get your answers and I don't want to mistake a yes for a no. So, can you read? Okay. Yes, ma'am. Thank you. Can you write? Okay. Yes, ma'am. Thank you. And you at the last time we talked um had made it through seventh grade. This will be your eighth grade year. Yes, ma'am. Okay. I asked you if you had any drugs today? No. Okay. Any alcohol today? No. And the prescription med that you were supposed to take, you did not take on this particular day. Okay. So, no meds. All right. That's what we went through to begin with. I'm going to ask him to read the top line and then we'll flip it around for everybody else. Can you read that top line again for me, please? Yeah. The father rights under the state constitution, the United States constitution constitution. All right. This top line says you don't have to make a statement or say anything. Do you understand what that means? What does it mean? You got to talk to your own. Correct. Townsen's grandmother tells him that no matter what, he is going to be serving time. The only question at this point is for how long. It's a harsh bite of reality, but Townsen remains unmoved. Okay. Anything you say can be used against you in court. Do you understand that that line? What does that mean? If I see something right now, they can you can use that information in court. Okay. What is court? You know what court is? Yeah. What is court? Where the judge be at and all the state attorneys and Okay. Prosecute everybody. Yeah, that's where you go to court and the judge tells you certain things or things like that happen. Is that correct? Yes, ma'am. No, ma'am. Okay. You have the right to talk to a lawyer for advice before you make a statement or before any questions are asked of you and have the lawyer with you during any questioning. Do you understand what that means? Yes, ma'am. What does it mean? God answer any questions. Unless you got a lawyer right here with you. You have the right to talk to one for the advice before you make a statement or before any questions are asked of you and to have the lawyer with you during any questioning. That's what it's saying exactly is you have the right to talk to one if you want their advice. You don't have to answer any questions unless you have that lawyer with you. You understand what that means? Yes, ma'am. Okay. If you cannot afford to hire a lawyer, one will be appointed for you before any questioning if you wish. Do you understand what that means? Yes, sir. Do you want a public defender? That's ain't no help right there. Sure ain't. Okay. They just going to make me get more time. What's Tell me what a lawyer is. Tell me what you know what a lawyer is. Somebody that's going to help me beat my case. Okay. Sometimes lawyers uh help you beat your case and sometimes they try to prosecute you. State attorneys. State attorneys. Okay. Well, they're they're lawyers. They're still lawyers, believe it or not. Okay. Um if you do answer questions, you have the right to stop answering questions at any time and consult with a lawyer. Do you understand what that means? If you do answer questions, you have the right to stop answering questions at any time and consult with a lawyer until you get a lawyer, right? It means if you want to stop answering the questions and say, "I want a lawyer," you can do that at any time. Is that fair enough? Yes, ma'am. Do you understand what that means? Yes, ma'am. Okay. So, is this the same form that I read you both times before? Yes, ma'am. Okay. Did you have any questions about this that that you want to go over? No, you don't have no questions. Okay. I sign the form in the same place each time. This is my signature and my ID number. Uh what I've asked of him each time is that signing the form acknowledges to me that he understands what I read him. It doesn't win him a prize. It doesn't mean anything more, anything less than what he's read. That signature means I understand this. Okay. If you would do me a favor and sign that again to say that you acknowledge or you understand you understand what I read you. Okay. Let me just catch up a second. This is um some of the pictures that I showed uh Chiron 005731. Mom is Nikia Nikia. N E K I A. And grandma is Le Pard. L. Spell it for me. L E I L E H. L E I L A H. L E I. What am I doing? L E I L A H. Pard. Okay. Do you guys live together or you live separately? Separately. Mhm. Yes. Okay. Um, this is your grandson. This is your son. All right. What I showed this young man is this picture. Who was this? Zarya. He acknowledged that this was Zarya, his first love. First love. I said true love. He said first love. This is a picture that I showed Chiron in a specific type of shirt. Uh this is Saturday. The date on this was 0628 of 19 or 2014 at 025 hours in the morning. Um these were several pictures. This is a picture from Chiron's Facebook. And if you notice, see the lines right here, the shirt. That's this part. This is this you can almost see the yellow and that's a teal blue shirt. These are all around the same time. This these couple are from the video the same spot the dental office. So basically what we went through is he acknowledged this picture is him. That's Daryl. This is Daryl. He acknowledged that this young man is the other individual. This is a lightened up version so that it was a little easier to see the color of the shirt. This is basically these are a lot and they only change by sometimes a second. Um and again this isn't all that he was seen but this is a big idea. He immediately identified these two. Um this is one of them running the back alley. The family has shown the video evidence as well as the picture on Facebook showing Townsen wearing the same shirt. This will prevent them from trying to say that the person in the video isn't Townsen. Although so far neither woman indicates that they're going to deny that it is him. Some of these are in black and white. Some of them in color because each each um business has a different type of video. Each business has a video. This is his Facebook that we went through. He Who is this? Oh yeah. Let me see them all movie statuses. Yeah. He's talking about guns and he says he's talking about movies. I mean, I bet you if you saw some of these comments, you'd Let me see. Well, we'll go through Let's worry about this at the end, okay? Because we are definitely more worried about what happened at the spot than his little foul mouth on Facebook. All right. Um, why don't you do this to make it easier for me? Why don't you go through the the And I want to go back to the little map we drew. Why don't you go through the story about how this went and make sure we can hear you because I don't want you to have your finger around your mouth. This is basically the shopping center. Ricker Road, this is 103rd. There's a shopping center that has a lot of different things in it. There's an O'Reilly Auto Parts. There's a subway around here. On the corner here, there's a tattoo place called Nerds Inc. I N K. Okay. Barber shop. Barber shop and the seafood store next. And this is a back alley that just runs along the back. It's narrow. I know. Right. These are some dumpsters. And then there's a fence that tries to go around the dumpster. It is. Right. This is an old rallies or checkers. I'm not exactly sure. Checkers. I've heard both. This is an old Pizza Hut. Um I ain't been back there. Is it Pizza Hut? It's the one right where the behind the building. This This is the rally and then chic. This is the chic and then it's Lventura and then So the main sale. Well, then let me ask him these questions and then maybe that'll help you. It's okay. And this is why I was like it. It's easier if you just keep it to one, but it'll be it'll be fine. Um Chiron told me that where this incident occurred, the man was over here on the side of the rallies. Um which he was. That's true. We found him right on the side of the rallies. Uh he was a homeless man that was had a little camp, little homeless camp. We was walking past. Now what we leaving for? We leave from the pool hall. So walking McDonald's tonight, man. start talking crazy and that knife that I thrown in the silver that your mom was playing with. That's the one he had. And hold on a second. He actually claims that you told him to get rid of this knife and he threw it in the sewer. I don't even know knowledge about a knife. I don't know nothing about a damn knife. How about you? Right. So, you see where we're going already? Okay. Go ahead, baby. He'd be on medication. Black knife that I had. I don't know. See, you didn't tell me nothing about grandma cuz you're looking at grandma to confirm your story. You told me specifically that your brother got My little brother. My little brother about know it's not from talking about. My little brother sure do know it's not if I'm talking about and that's fine. But you told me that mom told you to get rid of it. Yeah. She said get it out the house. And I got it out the house. If it was I ain't see no I know I ain't personally seen no damn night. If I did, hell yeah. Don't bring that in here. Right. But don't bring nothing in here. To your knowledge, you didn't tell him to get any knife out of the house. All right. So So go on with it. It's okay cuz what he says is he th ends up throwing the knife in the sewer where the police came and parked by your house. There's a field, I guess, uh grassy area. Yeah. And there's a sewer drain pipe thing. He showed me that it's by the house and there's two little drains. And one of them he threw the the knife in the drain wrapped up in a towel. Now, here's the thing. I've done stuff where you've had to find guns and knives before in the drains. They only go so far. We'll find it if it's there. And if it's not, it's not. If it's there, it's there. If it's not, it's not. So, basically, there was a reason he is telling us about this knife. So, does that help get you about the knife? Is that about right? So, walking past the man was talking. We're walking past. So, he was sitting there. Then he had the knife in his hand and ran up on Daryl. So I popped off on him. Then what you mean popped off? What? Punched him in his face. Oh, okay. Then we walked to McDonald's. But before we walk to McDonald's, the boy that I went to school with, we start going with them. We left McDonald's that was like, "Nah, I'm ready to go back around here." So the first shot went off. Then he was like, so I walked towards the trash can. Then when he shot the man in his head, we got out of there and went through the cut. Then the next morning, we saw we saw the neither his mother nor his grandmother are willing to lie for him. Both flat out deny that they ever saw him with a knife. Townsen insists that his brother will confirm his story and moves on to tell what happened during the shooting. Some guy had the he had the recording of the um the cops picking up the man body and that's like a week later that we found out it was on the news. And then what happened with Zarya? something to do with this. This ar see it's like see let me tell you how I explain it to you. Like what? Zarya knew what? Like you told Zarya what? She asked about it, but what? You ain't even saying nothing. I don't hear nothing either. Well, what is you trying to say? I could put it in words. What? What did What happened? What? What? What she got to do with it? She doesn't have anything to do with it. Actually, you want me to help you? If you want to. All right. And you tell me if I said it right. So, basically, Zarya sees it on the news, too, and she recognizes both of them. So, there's a discussion about what did you do? He explained to her about the situation with this man and a knife. He says he shot at the man once and missed the man. And then Daryl shot at the man once also. Now see how he told you how he popped off. Did you not tell me that you fired a shot at that man? You were the first one to fire a shot? Yeah. And he said it was because the man took two steps and lunged real fast at Daryl. But he says Daryl said come back around. And when we left there the man in his head we left. Okay. He also told me that, and this is how this diagram comes in, the man was here. He says he's over here when he hears that second shot. He had just walked across, walked to the trash can. You know, the trash can and the gates not that far from each other, right? He walked across to the trash cans. And he's in this area. That's why he put the little asterisk. And he hears the the second shot, the one he didn't fire, and he takes off running in the alley. Problem with that is the video that shoots from the tattoo wall has them running both in this direction all the way across the parking lot. One at a together, but you know, one and then right after that another. No one walks over here and stands. Okay. I was looking at the trash can the whole time. Okay. Well, I'm going to tell you that we have a video on that's I'll show you the angles. They walk down this sidewalk. You got to kind of step down here. There's a little bit of mailboxes right here. They're kind of for the businesses. They're metal, you know, pigeon hole type. I know what you're talking about. You got to walk down this little area and then you go this way. Okay. On this wall right here, the tattoo shop, the dental shop, all the other places, they have videos pointing this way. Videos pointing this way. The tattoo shop has one pointing this way, that way, this way, and in the alley. So, all the directions in the side here are covered. So, this area here is very visible to seeing people and to be quiet. The barber shop got one on the side right there, too. Well, and and like I said, like I told your your family, I'm only telling you a small amount for a reason because when people go to telling a story, it has to match up to the evidence that you have. And if it doesn't, then there's still a hole in the story. Where he's standing when that second shot happens or where he isn't standing is not something to argue. I mean, it's dumb. It's it's not worth um lying about. If you're going to lie about something, lie about it to save yourself. Hell yeah. Okay. But being over here where I can prove he wasn't like he says, that's a problem. And you you guys understand we're trying to figure out who did what when. All right. He openly admits. Tell them how you got the gun to begin with. Where'd you get a gun from? A guy from Dale. Yeah. Follower Ronda, you don't know you 12 and you following these boys. You don't even know them. No of them. Know nothing about them. You don't even know where they live at. What do you think, Grandma? I know I wouldn't be in this predicament at all cuz I didn't told them nothing. I'm not going to jail for nobody. Did I show you the time of this? Yeah. 2:25. This is This is 2:30. This would have been a [ __ ] home anyway. That's when we reported. I called him reported him missing. Right. You reported him. Y'all reported him missing. Yes, ma'am. And then she called. Yes, ma'am. Back cuz uh John was like, "Uh, they ain't going to go by." What? But they listened to me and they came and we both put out a report. Yeah. Yeah. Y'all definitely He was definitely not with y'all. The grandmother in particular is not impressed by Townson's actions. He was running with an older crowd that do not have his best interests at heart and will only get him in trouble. Townsen has chosen his friends poorly and it has put him in a situation far beyond his age and maturity level on this incident. Okay, no one is disputing that this is them. No one is disputing that these two are at the scene of of this man being killed. And make no mistake, I hate seeing anybody's life go down the tubes, okay? But I also have an obligation to the man's family. And I have to I have to do right by them. And doing right by them is making all of you understand this little part here, it's not going to go. Um, initially he told me that the reason he ran down the alley is the rats back here. The rats were out there and he made him run, but they had their shirts tied around their head to run. So, um, if you look at this real close now, that's one of them and not the second. When they walk down that boy, they ain't too I was already through the cuts. When they walk down the sidewalk, you see they have shirts on. Now, this is one of them. You're right. And when I went to print out the second one, it printed out two of these. So, I don't I have a picture of him running down the alley as well. Okay. And there is no good reason for all of a sudden you to have to put the shirt around your head. Exactly. And run down the alley. So the bottom line is um to say that uh you were standing back here when that second shot happened, but it was it was even far from me. It was right there like Okay. Whether it was far from you or not, I'm not saying that this is a long distance or a short distance. I'm not saying it's any distance. What I'm saying is you clearly didn't just walk over here and stand by the dumpster and then you heard a shot and then you was already right there. I'm I'm going to tell you both. He ran from this area back here. Not the not the exact corner of rallies, but more over here. He took off the both of them. It's about six minutes difference. They walk down the sidewalk toward the rallies and in six minutes they're running in the back alley. Neither one of them dispute that's them walking this way or going that way. 6 minutes at the most eight. And I say six to eight because like my watch it I don't have a a digital watch. Ask your question. Yes ma'am. What made y'all talk to her? Um nobody made us talk to her. There was basically some information that was gained that while you were looking for him, people, the father was wondering, hey, why is this going on? He didn't even know why somebody would even be anybody would be calling his phone. So, it made him feel suspicious. He saw the video and we'll just take it from there. I mean, I I'd like to tell you everything about how that went, but the other thing I don't want to do is if he were to like he were to tell me about something about Daryl, I'm not going to run over there and say, "Hey, by the way, he just told us everything you said." Do they both know they're pointing the finger at each other? Absolutely. But I'm not I don't what I don't want to do is I don't want to keep a a promise with one person and and not with another. There are certain details to keep someone Your whole life is Yeah. And here's here's where I left. Here's where I left. I asked him and B was at the scene. You you you like you did it. If you didn't if you missed, you should have shot him cuz that's what you're getting ready to get charged with. And here's where I was at. Murder. Here's where I was at. You can right through time, boy. Here's where I was at, ladies. Is where I left off. And maybe we can clarify this from here. I asked Chiron if he fired once. And he says I said, "Well, how'd Daryl get the gun?" Well, I gave it to him so he could fire once. Okay, I know and you know that's red flag. All right. So, if that's the case and he fired the second time, let's put that aside. The time you fired, what gave you the right to fire at someone that's lunging at someone else? That's plenty big enough because we established that Daryl could have this is a 50 plus year old man. He's a homeless man. And let me help you. He had gotten out of the hospital 2 days before this. He has all sorts of problems and he walks with a walker. That man don't got no walker. Okay, I'll show you the scene photographs. His walkers lay. Any chances of pleading self-defense go up in smoke with the detectives revelations. A man in poor health who has just been released from the hospital and can't even walk without assistance is hardly likely to be able to overpower two teenagers in good health. In fact, given the tendency for homeless people to be singled out for random acts of violence, it is hard to believe he would do anything to draw attention to himself to begin with. Just because every time I tell every time I see him, he never walking with no walker. And you know what else? To be honest, I really don't care. Alcoholic. He's a chronic alcoholic that doesn't he is racist. He is. I I've heard every time you can ask him, you ask Wolverine, you can ask the other B. Every time you see him, he never went to walk. He walking straight. So, but again, let me ask you this to clarify to me. What do you think your reason for being able to shoot at him when he was, as you put it, lunging at Daryl? What was your justification for doing that? And then down. Why? Hold on. Hold on. It was what? A warning shot. You like It was a warning shot. Okay. How do you know the one you shot didn't shoot the man? Because he was still up. According to you, the same person that says back here, you walked and you you didn't Well, I saw with my own eyes when Daryl shot him. He But you were back here. You can't see up here. It's a building. You can't see through the building. It's really not. You got You got that whole side right there because the back of the Chinese store is right there and the trash can is right there. Again, what gives you the right tell me, but I'll be on the third mark. Okay. Well, see, this is what I know. I know. But see, here's the thing. What what smartmouth doesn't understand is I have a lot of scene photographs. And if I took a whole bunch of people back there to say, "Okay, I didn't make the asterk. He made the asterric. He said he walked back here." First of all, let me show you this video of him running. Okay? And then let me show you how he says he can see through this. Cuz the man, it's not right there. This is a whole building. The man was you you you said the man was on right there. The man was in the street. What street? The man was laying in the street. What street? Near the checkers. The man was in the street. And the street is like 103rd Street. No, not the street. Like the like a parking lot. Like you pulling up and trying to order and he was in the street. Even worse. He's right. He's more like up here. He'd have to have Superman vision to be able to look through this whole building and see that that was how it happened. Now, am I saying that he's the one? Cuz let's just let's just think about it. All right. They was all the way up there and the pole the trash cans is right here. The pole is on the side going all the way down like this. The man sleep on the side right there. His body was in right there. So, how how tell me how is that all the way up there if you can't see that? I I can promise you you cannot see. Well, you bring your whole study team and tell them lining up the same way I'm showing right now. And you steady [ __ ] smoke though. Like smoking. Yes. You making even worseer. She trying to break you a deal with something. Mhm. I was But I'm showing it. She's saying that I'm And I'll tell you what else I'll do. I'll show them this black and white video of your narrow behind running through that area. And there's no walking. There's no stopping. It is. Y'all are running running. You ain't walking. You ain't stopping. And I'll tell you something. Here's what you're not allowed to do. Ladies and gentlemen, gentlemen, ladies, you are not allowed to fire a warning shot at someone. Oh, right now in the crime scene, lady, they getting rid because someone else charged at someone else. And by the way, the man did get out of the hospital two days back. Okay, I have his papers showing he got out. And what for? is chronic alcoholism. Fall. You know what was on his wrist, ladies? Let me tell you what was on his wrist. Hospital bed. Oh, better than that. Better than that. You know what it said? What? Fall risk. Oh, and what was he laying by? His walker. So, if you want me to paint that picture, then we will. But he has to understand that story right there. That man did not have no walker. The man was there. Okay. Watch the walkers. Watch the walkers. Say say this the street right now and I got a pistol on me and I just shoot you on your head. The man fell exactly like this and went in the street and want to know was he fall back straight and the man went to the side and fell like this right in the street and you saw that by the trash can running through running through the park right there. I can promise y'all to this god awful day. It would take me about 15 minutes to load that thing up and you would be embarrassed right now if I showed you him running through that back parking lot. Forget the fall risk. Forget the walker. So what you want? Shut up. I never I never I never or what? Because for number one, you getting smart. Number two, she trying to she trying to help you and you sinking yourself. Yes. And lying for a [ __ ] who don't care about you. Shan, have I been and don't even know you? Have I ever have I The whole time I've been Townsen describes how Trent died and becomes more and more agitated when no one believes what he is saying. His grandmother is angry that he is lying for someone who is probably in another room throwing him under the bus. She points out that the detective has given him chance after chance to be able to get off with lighter charges, but he keeps digging himself in deeper with every word. Talking to you, have I talked down to you? No. Have you understood everything I've asked of you? Yes. All the questions. Have I treated you with respect? Yes. Okay. Did I beg you and plead with you to tell the truth? No. I didn't ask you to tell the truth. Yeah. Yeah. I asked you to tell the truth how many times? Like two. Okay. And then at one point you had to knock on the door and say, "Uh, I might want to tell you the other truth." Right. Yes. Yes. All right. So, I've done everything I can do and I'm still finding issues and it's not it's not exactly clear. Okay. So, y'all going to keep them? Yeah, they going to keep them. I have to. I have to at this point and and it's not about whether I have to. I'll go pose it to the attorneys. I will. I'm going to be fair and I will. But the big the huge the most huge thing is even if you go with what he says and this guy got run up on by Daryl, I will prove that he wasn't running up too much on anybody. And if he and if he did and if he did, that's Daryl's issue. Not yours. You should have mine dampened and kept going. And who admitted he had the gun at that point that he took from Daryl? That's him. I never told you I took the gun from my what I told you. He told me to hold it when we was walking towards me. My bad. The words are a different choice. Young people in the semantics of words. He's right. He said he got the gun from Daryl because Daryl what I told you when when Daryl asked for he said give my [ __ ] back. What I did give it back to him. Exactly. But that's but see what you said you like his you shouldn't have been stunt dummy. Stunt dummy. Fall dummy. Now you can take the fall for his. Let me ask you this. Do you think it's fair, either one of you think it's fair that he could shoot at someone that's not involving anything him or him? I don't think it's I personally don't think it's fair. If you take everything else away, what color shirt, who had what first, whether or not they both shot, whether or not only one shot, he had no right to fire a gun at somebody that wasn't threatening his life. No right. Yeah. Why do that? He said he fired a warning shot. Do you think I'm allowed to fire a warning shot? No. No, ma'am. Do you think anyone's allowed to fire warning shot? No, you don't get to fire warning shots. And I'll tell you, um, is he a convicted felon based on that burglary? Yes. Okay. So, what did he put in his possession? The firearms. Then that's another felon. That's you getting ready. Your whole life is gone. And then what? pay you as though you're on probation and they told you you get in any more trouble with the law. What they going to do? How long you like to do? Now, let me ask you something. Did that man pop off? Is I'm trying to think in my mind. Is there any reason that that he would have I know you have a short temper. You said you have anger issues. Yes, he do. And he going he get he's really um certified for it. Yes, I get it. So, is is there anything that that man said that night that just flipped your switch that he was because you never said he was talking to you? He said he was talking to Daryl and Daryl told him, "Do you want to lo you want to live your life or something of that nature?" Did he say anything to you that was derogatory, meaning about your race, about your your color, about your religion, about your hair, about anything. I'm trying to understand why you thought you were able to shoot at this man. Okay. Woody cuts y'all out. You can't talk. You better be saying something. What the man say to y'all when y'all walked up to him? He said he was told me he was sitting on the ground and then this just all kind of happened. Did you um did and I know this is going to sound like a silly question, but I'm just going to ask. Mom, can you get out the room real quick? Cuz stuff about to say you going to start crying. So, can you just step out for like two minutes? You want your grandma to stay? [Music] You want to tell me the truth? Truth. You want to sit by your grandma? You said you don't believe he just told on you. I heard the whole conversation. He just blame everything on me. I'm not done with just sitting here just like this. I heard everything he was talking about, bro. Firing a warning shot and then passing the gun to someone else. Does it make sense? Wasn't he worried that he might hit his friend? If he had time to get close enough to pass off the gun, was his friend ever in really any kind of danger? Nothing about this holds up. Heard both conversations with him and DJ. I'm not dumb. Like nobody can't hear do this while he was just talking. They don't know you. You don't know them. I said I'm staying one more night and I'm going leave in the morning. I'm not I just heard the whole conversation. Like if I want to talk right the whole conversation you and him was just talking. That's why I tried to tell you in the beginning you we was look look I'm tired of saving this boy. Yeah. Tired. You hear this? Get right. I can't hear you with this. Okay. Please. Daryl. Okay. What was that boy name? It was some boy on Melvin. He bought the gun for $50, a revolver, a shell catcher. So he was like, we we was in the we was in the lead. So we was walking. He was we were after we stayed at the pool hall after everybody left, we were man. We was still up there. So you and Daryl. Yeah. But before that that day before that, he gave Wolverine. He gave Wolverine some crack, but Wolverine owe him some money. So we walk through the cut, he was like, "Bro, I'm ready to go shoot Wolverine, bro." Like, "Bro, why you ready to kill this man for?" So after before he at he kicked in the box, the shed that they were sleeping in. Yeah. Wolverine wasn't in there. So yeah, that looked like Wolverine with the black hair because Wolverine owed him $20. So he for the crack. Yeah. He been waiting for and I think I know which man is that old man that taught him to kill. So at the D said go around. He was like he knew Wolverine. So like B. So he was like bro he walked up to him start messing with the man. He dumped his beer on him but it ain't no walker right there. He dumped his beer. He dumped this bag out. The knife was right there. I grabbed the knife and put in my pocket and D start they start talking to the man. I was on the pool sitting down with the little pool that go all over the car. So D talking to him. Then last word he said he was like bro you love your life. And the man was like I'm living it. He was like bro you love your [ __ ] life. Bro stop asking this man and stuff. He was like, "No, bro. I want my money from with my friend." So like, "Matter of fact, somebody going to pay for it." Since I can't get my $20, he know where to pay for. Bro, chill out, bro. He was like, "Boy, you love your life." So, bro, the man said something to him. Check the mall. So, he shot him like towards his head, like not on the side, like it's going towards right there through his temple. He was like, "Put your shirt over your head and leave and go through the cut." Okay. So he did it. He was like, "Take your shirt." He said, "Take your shirt." And I and he wrapped it for me. So like cuz the way I did it wasn't right all the way. So I was like, "Man, wrapping." He tied it and did his and I ran first through the cut. Where did you put your hands on the gun? You didn't touch that gun at all. Well, why you say you did? You said he gave you the gun. Told you to get the gun. Why did you make your mom leave to tell that? I don't understand. What did you need to say that your mom couldn't have heard right there? That's the the other part was worse than that. I think what you're trying to do is play me and your grandma. You can't play me cuz I ain't going to sit and hold hands with you. You sure ain't. I got to tell you. I sure best believe I'm not. You sure ain't. Remember those? I keep going back to son them videos and what you told people. Listen, all these little stories, they keep coming around. You You are not giving me credit for knowing what happened. That's the real story right there. If you could ask anybody, like he said, Deja know the story. Why? She probably not going to tell them no. Well, Deja, Deja did tell us the story. That's his sister. So did Zarya and Zarya. Matter of fact, that's what I'm about to say. Bring her in and ask her since he since not going to tell. I don't know. I know somebody that's going to tell the story. Bring her in. See, the thing is the thing is the people that were actually there is you and him. There's no other people there other than what happened after the fact. But that night she stayed she stayed in the house with all of us that night. Zarya, Da, who else was there? Me, Zarya, Da, Ni, Daryl should have picked all of them up. All of them was in there. He was like, "Hey, your your grandson shouldn't have been over there." Exactly. He told He told her she was listening, too. She was She she was she stopped texting, set the phone down just like this, and I grabbed it and she started listening. So she know what happened. Everybody in the house know what happened. See, unfortunately now they're all looking at you. They put it all on you. And here's the thing. In the beginning, he told a crazy story. Then he told a story. The natural tendency for self-preservation flares. And Townsen is trying to pin everything on his friend. When he claims that he never touched the gun, his grandmother points out that he's already admitted to having it in his possession. Then he told another story about how he was walking. This is story number four. Well, I'mma say it like this. You ain't going nowhere. So, you might as well tell them the truth. But that's the story. That's the reality. They giving you time, buddy. You accomplice. You've told You've told so many stories. They'll know which one to believe. Should have told the truth. So, you know what? Sometimes you got to go with what you know for here on these little videos and what people can back up. And right now, unfortunately for you, no one's backing you up. You know what I mean? Now, I'm not real world sure why he asked you to leave. He didn't even tell you. He didn't say it be ugly. I thought he was I thought it was about to be ugly, but it wasn't ugly. You all right? She throwing up again. She's cold. That that th My nerves is Yeah, she's scared. My blood pressure. I'm trying to stay calm. I don't want to go to the hospital. No, I don't. You think you need to go to the hospital? I'll stop talking to him if you It's all right. I want to know what's going Oh, what's going on? Is he like to leave? Yeah. See what you're doing? You're making your family crazy. You're upsetting them. Now your dad got to come down here on the next thing smoking. I Oh, I didn't. So now what? Let's go outside. We'll talk and cuz I don't um I don't know if anything else is going to change. We'll go outside and talk and then I'll talk with the state and if you guys I'm sure you'll want to stay around. I'll I'll let you know what the the state besides I'm sitting in here but I've been in here for like 5 hours. You might be in here forever. If not this is the last I got to piss, bro. All right. I'm going to take you to PE. Listen, I don't know how you talk to them, but if you want to go to the bathroom, I'll be happy to take you. But you need to be a little bit care about. Are you going to do what? Go ahead and say that in front of your mama cuz whenever the consequence comes, I want her to know that ain't nobody did nothing to you that you didn't ask for. So, she going to let you go to the bathroom. But you got to act like a young man. Okay. I'll I'll definitely get you to the bathroom. First consequence, but I know I said my first one soon as they came to my house, bro. Can you hear me? Can I let Can I let him talk to his dad? Cuz he been it his dad been trying to get me to let him talk. Can we come outside? Let me make sure the supervisors are okay with that cuz at this point I got to do something with him. He's right. I needed to get him to the bathroom and be able to figure out what's going on. Come on. Stand up a second. They said they want to talk to me. Come on, sit up. I'll be glad to talk to you. This the lady you were asking for, right? Okay. Come on. Have a seat. You want to talk to me? Yeah. Okay. You want to talk to me? I'm going to read you your rights again because you told me you didn't want to talk anymore. So, I'll read you your rights. If you want to talk to me, we'll talk. I've been in the I'm sorry I didn't come back in right away. I've been in the middle of the other kid, some other people. It's been taking me a minute. Okay, fair enough. Yes or no? Yes, ma'am. All right. So, you want to talk again? All right. Let me hit your foot there. Okay. All right. We went through this before. Let me go through the time and the place. It is now it's 10:40 at night. So that's 2240 and it's still 0730 2014. Place is still the police memorial building. Should read that top line. My mom coming back in here. When? Well, if you want her, I'll go get her. You want to talk to me or you want to talk to her? I'm talk to her at the time I'm done with this. After you're let me make sure I'm understanding you. You want to talk to me, but then when you're done talking to me again, you want to talk to your mom. I can handle that. Is that true? Say yes or no. Yes. Okay. Read the top line for me. I'm glad the final right under the United States Constitution. Constitution. Close. Townsen decides he is done talking. But after having some time to think about it, he changes his mind. He's struggling to come up with something that will save him. Even if he tells the truth at this point, it will do very little to help his case. You know there's such a thing as the United States Constitution, right? You want that much in school. All right. Says you do not have to make a statement or say anything. Do you understand that? Yes, sir. Anything you say can be used against you in court. Do you understand that? Yes, ma'am. You have the right to talk to a lawyer for advice before you make a statement or before any questions are asked of you and to have the lawyer with you during any question. Do you understand that? Yes, sir. If you cannot afford to hire a lawyer, one will be appointed for you before any questioning if you wish. Do you understand that? Okay. If you do answer questions, you have the right to stop answering questions at any time and consult with a lawyer. Do you understand that? Yes, sir. All right. I want to do the same thing. I want to sign my name right here. If you agree to continue talking to me and you understand those rights, you sign your name and we'll keep rolling. Okay. All right, young man. This is your dime. I'm going to let you just talk. Okay. You said you want to talk to me again. What can I help you with? Man, we was walking through the back going to McDonald's and the man came and ran up there. So I popped off on him. Then we ran back the other way the first time. Okay. Went around and came back through. Okay. Cuz said come back through there cuz he wasn't done. So after the first shot went off, it didn't hit him. The gun was a shell catcher. And after the first shot missed, I guess the bullet hit the ground cuz it didn't hit him. Okay. He fired another one. And shot him in his head and he fell. Okay. And we left out of there. Then who was it then? Who was it? Some guy. I know who it was. He had a um he was walking out to the store and he had the video of the um the cops picking up the body. Then Darl was like such and such you need to go home. Such and such race stay here with Da for one more night and I'm relieve then I went down I called Zorya. Then I guess she found out she asked what happened. So I told her then I told her don't tell nobody. Okay. Did you tell her that you you popped once and then he popped twice? The one I hit would miss cuz it didn't touch him at all. Okay. All right. That's fair enough. I'm going to make sure I don't write it down wrong. And I wanted to stop and listen to you so I didn't write it down wrong. The man that um was shot was that the white man that lays on the ground. Okay. Say yes or no. Yes, ma'am. And I'm not trying to make you say anything that's wrong. I just don't want to mistake look at me. I don't want to mistake a yes for a no. Is that fair? Yes, ma'am. All right. So, the man that was shot was a white man. Had that man given you guys any grief before? Was he fussing with you? Before he was racist. Okay. We was at the pool hole one night and it was like near the near on the side where the window. Mhm. We were sitting there on the step where the liquor store was just sitting there cuz usually we know somebody that come up there said just come out there and they all be up front. Then he walked past thorn beer and that was the first time I fought home myself. And after that we walked past where we walk at? We walked to Timana. what I'm calling. It was like it was four of us. He picked up a little pipe right there talking about don't walk past here such and such or you going to get hurt. But that night we was walking. He ran up on Daryl. He ran up like ran okay. So he ran up on Daryl. All right. So up. And where were y'all? I'm sorry to interrupt you. When he ran up on Daryl, was this at that abandoned rallies or was it at the Pizza Hut or was it down by Chic? Where was it? Right. Near the barber shop going towards the barber shop, but it's the trash cans in the restaurant. All the doors near the barber shop. Is the barber shop in that buzz where Subway is you're talking about? Yeah, like Subway right there. Then it's the barber shop. Okay. So, it's Subway. When you even go through the cut is the stores, the back of the store, right? That's the seafood place. Is that what you're talking about? You go past the tattoo shop and then there's a little break in the buildings. Yeah. Then there's another one that goes the opposite way. You're talking about y'all were behind there. Yes. Okay. So, you're actually you're behind the seafood place. So that's kind of between the detective is making sure she is careful to get the exact details. Once she is able to compare this statement with the videos, she'll be able to tell if Townson is closer to giving her the truth. Between the rallies and the seafood place, but you're in the back. Yeah. In the back. Do you know where those dumpsters are? We talked about how those dumpsters are the back there or closer to like Take a second. Take your time. All right. So, you walking down from Riley's all the way to the end. Keep walking. Keep walking to the end. Past the tattoo shop. Yeah. All the way to the end. The barber shop. All the way. Tattoo shop is on the corner though, right? is a No, is a is a pool hole, but it's another board. That's the other Oh, here. Let's do this. Okay, let's do this. This is the sidewalk. This is the tattoo place right here. And then this is the rallies. This is the Pizza Hut. And that's that little place back there where they were sleeping. This is the old Pizza Hut. And then this is now isn't this over here the bar? The pool hall. The bar at the end right there. This is the pool hall. Okay. This is the tattoo place. And this is about Subway right here. And O'Reilly's is down here. Now O'Reilly's is this is the auto parts. This is um Ricker. And this is the Safari food store. Here's Safari over the Subway at the end. Subway's right about in the middle. And you keep on walking. This is Nerd's Tattoo. Yeah. You keep going. You got to keep going right. And this is this is a seafood place and the dumpsters are back here. And uh and then this is the alley that y'all ran through. You feel me where I'm at? These are some garbage dumpsters. And then this is an alley. And this is behind the tattoo shop, behind the subway. And then there's a liquor store. And then O'Reilly's at the very far end. Okay. So, you're saying it was cuz the old the old man was laying right here. That's where that's where um he was found. He was laying beside that rallies little area. So, you're talking about where he runs up on Daryl is where it's like that's where he was laying at like right there. Okay. And this is 103rd. Just to make sure we're right. This is 103rd chic McDonald's going past. Yeah. Then it's the other store across the street from McDonald's. Then it's that box. Yeah. And the other I ain't think that's a church. Could be. I think that's a church. I don't know about that, but I know I know these. Then there's checkers right there. All right. So, this little star you put the star equals um where he ran up on Daryl. How fast could he run? Would he lunge at him? No. just real fast or did he actually take a few steps and to run? Like two steps and like couldn't jump for him. I popped off on him. Okay. So two steps. Did he have anything in his hands? That knife. Okay. After after I got it from him. He had the knife after you got it from him. Like after I popped the knife held. Okay. D was like walk back around and I went to go grab it. All right. So he took a couple he took two steps at Daryl, had the knife. You popped one shot at him. What kind of gun did you use? The shell catcher or another one? Shell catcher. Okay. All right. So you pop one shot at him and then Daryl pops two or more. Or more. One. One. Daryl pops one. I'm sorry I couldn't hear. You got to take your fingers out your mouth. Daryl pops one shot. What kind of gun did he have? I see one. [ __ ] Did y'all hand it off to each other or did he have his own gun? It was only one of them. Okay. So, it was one gun and after you did it, then you handed it to him. Did he ask for it or did you tell him, "Here, you finish it." He said, "Give me my stuff." He said, "Give me my stuff." Meaning his stuff. His gun. Yeah. Okay. Give me my stuff. And that means that the gun Daryl popped one shot. All right. And then you got the knife from him. Once he hit the ground, you got the knife from him. What is it? Townsen hasn't said anything yet that can be directly contradicted, which may mean he is finally being honest, at least about his movements. It will be a little harder to determine who fired the fatal shot. Do we walk back around? Okay, so you popped once, he popped once. Where is the man then? After I popped him, the man jumped. Well, after I punched him. You punched him, too? No, that that how I got down when he ran up there. I popped off on him. Okay. Then after that and we walked back around then he D there was like come back then man was still coming. So I shot it one time then it missed. Then D was like get my stuff. I gave it to him. Okay. Then what was the man doing? He was just sitting there and D was talking. I walked to the trash can right there. You see like you know how people see something before they about to die. I guess they were talking about something, right? I walked towards the trash can, turned around. So when the shot went on, I ran through the cut. Okay. So the shot that Daryl shot, you were over by the trash cans. Yeah, like the second trash can near the gates right there. Okay. So you were over and I know what the gates you mean now. I know what you're talking about by the gates. They're actually like a fencing. Yeah. Two gates. Yeah. Is that for to keep people out of the alley? No, just to cover up the trash can. Oh, I got you. I got you. So people can't just go in there and throw their trash. All right. So by the time you're saying that um you had walked off after you did your pop and Daryl said, "Give me the gun." You turned around and you began to walk off. I got walked to the trash can. I was waiting. He was just talking about and he was way over there by the man. The trash can even that far from the what you call it. It was right there. Right. Yeah. Let's go back cuz this is where you're saying that the man was where and I walked towards here. It wasn't that far. So you walked in the back there. The man was on the side right there. Okay. But he was in the street. I just walk right to this one. Then it's the little fences in the cut. Right. Now what were you just walking through here? No. I stopped I stopped right here. The shot went off. That's Then you took off. So you were actually standing by the dumpsters, right? And you hear that shot went off and then you took off. Everybody who what did you do with your shirt? I said I to be honest I don't even know what happened to my bag. Your like backpack or my back? Yeah. Did I b over there with me? Okay. When you were walking down the sidewalk from in the beginning in the front looked like you had your hand in your pocket, but I didn't see no bag with you. You didn't come that way? No, I didn't come nowhere. My bad was over there in the apartment. Okay. All right. So, while you're standing here, you can hear Daryl talking to the man. What are they talking about? I don't know. He was just talking. The man was talking about him. Like, who? Yeah. So, then Daryl just You just heard one shot. Was there anybody else over here but you two? Who else was over in this back area? Nobody. Nobody. Okay. So, there wasn't anybody else but you, Daryl, and the man. Correct. Okay. All right. Um, where did you go from from there? You ran in the alley. Where did you go from there? I went two different places. You went two different places. I went into this girl house. I don't know where he went after that. I left. Okay. Went to a girl's house. He said, "You need to leave. I'm staying here with Deja for one night on the couch and I live. He was staying with Deja. Did you ever go to Deja's house? Uhuh. Never went inside. Okay. All right. So, you um stayed with the girl. Where was that? Is that on 103rd area or in the lakes or where? Where? There was where who is it? Like it's not Tmacuana, but it's like Tamacana and Blanding near James Stewart at the same time. Blending. Do you know her name? Was it What's her friend name? Alicia. Something like that. Alicia. Okay. Is she young? She like 13. So she must live with her parents, right? I guess she was over there for the weekend. I met them at the mall. Okay. And that's when my phone was on. That's when they called and was come over here. Such and such. So I rode the bike over there. Steve there. Where would where were you keeping your bike at when y'all Several people seem to know what happened after the event, which technically could make them accessories after the fact were walking all over the place. My bike some the bike was just sitting in the grass out there cuz the little kids I used to just go sit it down. They'll ride it around a circle in apartments. Okay. Sit it back. Okay. Um, like the farthest the bike could go is to the front. It might go nowhere. People knew it was your bike though. Yeah. Like everybody could leave their bikes out there and see the little kids got it with somebody riding it to the store. As far as go is to Walmart and bring the bike back. But I won't worry about nobody checking the bike back though. Okay. Um, so what' you end up doing with what you do to get rid of the gun? I don't know what happened to that. What happened to the knife? In the sewer. Okay. And the knife ended up in the sewer. And that's the sewer that's at front of your mom. Um, if I walk out your door, direct me to what sewer pipe I need to look for because we'll pull it up. They I've done this before actually. It's really simple. They'll bring a machine out. They'll open up the pipes. It doesn't matter how far it washed, we'll find it. So, direct me to this pipe. Walk out your mom's door. Yeah, absolutely. Draw mine back here. Uh, or back here. Yeah, that's fine. Either way, either way you want. All right. This my house. Mhm. Okay. Then it's the side lawn that go all the way down. Okay. The side lawn. But it's a it's a like a walkway like you can step up on. It's a sewer right there. Mhm. But it's across the street. It's another one across the street. Like Yeah. Wait, hold up. This the one near my house right there. But it's the other one across the street. Okay. Like the detectives asking where he parked up at. Like at the man that came about is asking where they parked up at. The sewer is right there. It's right there where the detectives parked parked up across the street. Sewer is right. And you're saying that the knife is wrapped in a a white napkin with what color duct tape is? Color the gray duct tape like the regular duct tape. And they going to see it's it's red color like marker like red was already on there. And it's black. Red marker was on the knife on my side. But the conversion knife is black. The knife is black. Like the whole thing is really black, but like somebody colored on it. Okay. [Music] has a red coloring. Okay. Oh, so it's wrapped in a white napkin. Has gray duct tape. It's marked red on the side, but it's really an all black knife. And the sewer is right where the detectives parked. Yeah. Right. Like he couldn't miss I know he had the smell or see the water dripping because like he like his car parked right here the sewer like right there. Okay. And the water was dripping a little bit cuz I was messing with the water holes here after I cut the grass. Okay. So this is your house. What What side is your front door? What would you say is your front door? Which one is your front door? If this is the little field you're talking about, what do you where do you walk out the front door? This the door side of my house cuz that's the water hose right there. Yeah. My door on this side and the driveway like coming all the way down to the mailbox cuz the mailbox on the corner. Okay. Then it's the grass like right on the side is the sewer. You can you can see it. Mhm. Then it's the other one across the street. Okay. Now, did did your mom actually tell you to get rid of it or you just get rid of it yourself? No, she didn't say nothing. She said get it out the house. So, that's the first thing I thought about washing it off then just putting it dropping it somewhere. Cuz the first time and I was thinking about it. I threw it the first time down like cuz like on the side of my house in my backyard, but it's all bushes right there like standing up. So then somebody else said next door when I th I found it again like I just dropped this in the but the far because that's middle in there. It was when I looked at it still sitting right there but it probably did away now. All right. Now with you doing the first pop you uh where'd you get the gun from? From Daryl. Okay. So, when did Daryl give it to you? Townsen describes how he hid the knife and the detective is confident that if it is where he says they will be able to recover it. She then pushes Townsen on where he got the gun and he takes a long pause before answering. Either he is bracing himself to say something that will make him look bad or he is trying to buy a few seconds to come up with a lie. And when is this? We was walking to McDonald's saying, "Well, it's about to walk to McDonald's cuz like every time we come here, the lady still, she'll tell us we can't come in and go through the drive-thru." The McDonald's lady. Yeah. She'll be like, "Go through the drive-thru." Okay. But last time we went, the other lady, she live in Indian Lakes, but she knew somebody broke in her house. and the boy that did it there be with him. So she was like, "Oh no, y'all can't do it cuz y' don't got no car such and such." So we waited at the pool hall was talking to Wolverine and all they still out there waited until she pulled off went back up there. Lady let us get it. But when we was walking there, he then Why would he have given you the gun? What was the purpose of that? To hold it real quick. Okay. But did you need to hold it or was there something bothering you? He had like I had on jeans. He had on basketball shorts that thing. He was like, "Oh, well, I don't got nowhere to hold this at, so hold this real quick." I'm like, "Oh." So, I just put it up. You know, in the in the video he has on khaki shorts, plenty of pockets. Don't basketball shorts she had on. They're They're cargo shorts, throws. Chicago shorts and it doesn't matter who had the, you know, whether you started with it, whether he started with it. Was there ever a time that um you guys uh walked down the road by Taco Bell to some boy named Bobby's house during that? I don't remember what time that was. Did you remember walking to some kid named Bobby's house? Yeah. OG Bobby. Yeah. OG Bobby. How old is OG Bobby? I don't know. Is he your age or like where I met Bobby at? I met Bobby playing basketball, but I didn't I only went over his house a few times, but I didn't talk to him like that. Do you uh do you remember going with Daryl that night down to his house to see if he was that one time? But after we spit I don't know if Daryl went back there. Yeah, it was that night. It was dark. Yeah, it was that night we went over there was dark but All right. Where do you remember going into the apartments the by the McDonald's? That's the name of the road is Lavender. The back of the McDonald's and we had to cut through there. Yeah. Did you get in a fight with anybody there? really want no fight. It was like like like somebody arguing then you raise swing and then somebody stopped it. Okay. But was it with the kid that he called Jit or I know everybody goes by Jit but yeah the what's his name? What's his name? was in my He went to school with me. I forgot. What's his name? He wasn't in my past, but I knew people he had classes with. What's his name? Well, who got in the fight with him? You or Daryl? We was like one I was really fighting myself, but Right. Daryl, he he wasn't going to let that happen. So, he start arguing back with the boy, too. But it really wasn't nothing because the lady broke. Well, she didn't even break it up. She just said stop. Did she say stop fighting cuz there was one of her kids involved. Uhuh. She just said stop. We shouldn't been doing it, right? Did she say she was going to call the police on you? You probably did. I probably didn't hear it. Right. Okay. All right. So this whole little shooting incident, did the shooting incident happen before the little fight or did the shooting incident happen after the little fight? Which came first, the shooting or the little fight? The fight after we live in McDonald's. The fight came first. Yeah. Did Bobby's come Bobby's house? Was that before or after the fight? I went there before with Daryl. Okay. But it was still dark. But he probably went back. I don't know. So, at some point you went to Bobby's, it was dark. Then you got into the fight with kids. Was it um far back in the complex or was it up front? It would say half and half. Okay. Before the altercation with Trent, Townsen had been involved in another fight, which makes things look even worse for him. This is going to give the prosecution a way to paint him as someone who is violent and dangerous to others. Okay. So, walk me through after the cuz Lventur is really close to this when y'all left this little fight. Is that when you ended up coming in contact with the white guy? this how after I hit the guy for running up and we walked off then that happened. He said walk back around there. So we walked back around and then all this stuff start happening. Yeah. Listen, let me ask you this. You said he took two steps and he ran up on Daryl. Yeah. Like did Daryl seem concerned? Daryl's Yeah. Like Daryl's looks like he can fight. He Daryl can fight. Scary, huh? If he would have hit the man, I hit the man cuz if he would have hit him, it would have been more than that that night. Like hit him. What? Like fought him? No, I didn't even hit him. I just tapped him like at least stumble, do something. But I know Daryl would have Daryl can fight you was what you're saying. He would probably go. Yeah. Have you ever seen Daryl fight somebody? No, I know he got a lot of strength because it was this we was in the in the elix this brick wall, right? So this girl said something that there and he punched the wall in the hole like 12 bricks that fell like big rear bricks. He just so I know he got a lot of strength. All right. So do you think if they would have got into a an altercation, do you think Daryl or the white man would have won? Man, I don't know. Probably probably Daryl. Yeah, he probably took some ego off. Yeah, he could probably do that. All right. So, when the white the white dude walked up on ran up on Daryl like that, what did Daryl say to him? Told him asked him did he love his life? Daryl said, "You love your life?" He didn't ask him that. Okay. And what did the man say? He was like, "I'm living it." And that's when I walked off and they start talking about something. Okay. Well, what you told me earlier is that when they when the man rushed up on him, ran up on him. Yeah. Then after that first shot went off. They were like, "You look like such and such." He was like, "I'm living it." Then I walked over to the trash can. Then the first shot went off like, "Oh, not standing here no more." So I ran through the cut. Yeah. Let's go back a second because when you said you fired once at him but you thought it missed, right? Yeah. That was for what? I know. But for what? When you shoot at someone, there has to be you have to be justified in doing that. You have to be right to do that. You're not allowed to just shoot at people. I'm not allowed to shoot at you because you know you you run up on me. Okay. I'm not allowed to do that. Why do you think you were allowed to shoot at this man? Because he was having a discussion with Daryl when we both clearly know Daryl could have handled himself. Why do you think that you had the right to do that? No, you don't think you had the right. Give me one second. Okay. I'm sorry. Did my mom come back in here yet? Um, I'll go see for you. You all right? There's your mama. Oh, boy. Well, you know what you got yourself into. Can I Can I say something? Just one second real fast. I'm going to let you guys I'm going to let you talk. I'm going to let me talk. We'll try to work through this together. Okay. Um we've been back uh here with him a couple times. Obviously, we have uh both young men downtown to because I brought you in now. Um you obviously know I went over his constitutional rights form with you. He you ain't sign no papers, did you? That's his name right here. Why you signing papers? You don't got no lawyer here with you. I wasn't back here with you. You wasn't supposed to sign or talk, say nothing. And then you on medication. You wasn't supposed to sign anything. Was I in here with you? So why is you talking to these people? You don't got your lawyer here. So why are you running your mouth? So now Townson's mother has returned and seems to be more angry that her son has spoken without a lawyer than the fact that he has killed someone. Townson looks resigned to her anger. As if this is common for their relationship dynamic. They trying to blame it all on you. I told you you hang with the wrong crew. Told you you're only 12 years old, Ronnie. Now you getting ready to take your whole life away for some dumb [ __ ] Now they depending everything on you. What you going to do now? You better get the you. Oh my goodness. Boy, boy. So, um So now what? Well, it's kind of a tough situation. Um, at this point in the in the time he actually asked for you to come back here. Uhhuh. So obviously that's what I'm going to do. I'm going to bring you back here. Um, I would have liked to continue trying to She don't want me leaving. You're not leaving. They keeping you here. you detained. They trying to charge you for a murder. You wasn't supposed to sign no paperwork. You weren't supposed to talk without me being in here with you. You wasn't supposed to say it not a word. All you had to do is say you talk to your lawyer. But you don't know. You on your medication. You don't know. You don't got no good sense right now. You tell them anything they want to hear. I'm going to let you guys and I'll be outside if I'll if you need me just All right. Yes, ma'am. Well, you just don't know what you got to talk them to. They got Zor told on you. They got D girl out there. What that girl? Which one you think? Mhm. He blamed it on you. So basically, they want you to say he he was the one in the distri. You didn't. So put yourself at the scene already. So you you got something to do with it. You wasn't supposed to say it. Not a word. You wasn't supposed to sign no paper. Did you read that paper? You ain't understand what it said, did you? So, you ready to go to Ronnie? You know you getting ready have to go to jail. They probably charge you as an adult and you gonna have to go to the county jail. So, I was just sitting here. Your dad just told me to let you know, get yourself prepared. They're gonna try to get you a lawyer. Ouch. Your phone still working? Yeah. I don't know what to tell you, but all No. Nope. You can't put your hands on it. Why? Because they told No. Face Facebook pictures. My dad Facebook picture. They got you. You all on Facebook, dummy. On my phone in the car. I can't even call nobody. What car? John John out there. They got witnesses. Got no witnesses at all. Who witness? Well, they got people saying Chiron, you was there at you had something to do with it. Who the witnesses? I don't know. I know. I've seen a picture of Zarya and the girl de out there. I guess everybody blaming everything on you. Even the boy Daryl said you um did it. And they sitting here watching us like a hulk recording everything. You shouldn't even say nothing. Now you sitting here looking all stupid. You don't know this is serious. You ready to take your whole life away for nothing? Doing something you ain't had no business doing. Bro, you only 12 years old. This my thing. You only 12. You don't know. You don't have no friends. Nothing today. I'm your friend. You see, I'm the only one up here with you. I don't know what the [ __ ] to do. I don't. All I can tell you. Wait. Under the weight of his mother's anger, Townsen withdraws him to himself, finally starting to see just how badly things are going. His mother is harsh, but fear is often expressed through anger. And having your child facing jail time is terrifying. officers who were trying to pin him and get him to drop his weapon. Jordan didn't give up without a struggle and ended up shooting both officer James Row and James. They want you to say um what you call had that gun and shot the guy. I guess they got both y'all sitting up here. I heard all y'all sitting up here. They just waiting for you. just Yeah. Um, you'll be a witness, but you going to get charged with something. Yes, you is. So, everybody up here. Mhm. So, they got Zora, Daryl, and DJ. Zor ain't up here right now. They got mug shot. They talked to her already. She told them what happened. Whatever you told her, she told them what happened. Know what happened. Take care of everything we saying. They don't know if they going to charge you with murder, first degree, second manslaughter. I don't know. I don't I don't know nothing about the system. I know you wasn't supposed to talk to nobody until I came in this room with you. When these detectives here, you wasn't supposed to say nothing. Nothing, Ronnie. Not nothing. I wasn't here. You wasn't supposed to open your mouth, not sign no papers, nothing. They want you to tell on them. So he was the one that shot that man cuz they only showed me pictures of the surveillance. They ain't got you on the back. What else you got? I just seen pictures. Which ones? They're on his Facebook page with the gun and the group of boys. Yeah, I saw a lot of [ __ ] on Facebook. Saw dad one. I saw the one he had his money in the gun. Saw the mug shop. They showed you the picture when he was in the cut. Mhm. Saw that one with a shirt off and wrapped around. Where you was at in the scene? I was left for already. I went, [ __ ] So what did you see? You left the boy. So what? What did you see? Did you see the boy shoot his ass? That's what they want to hear. Ronnie, I don't know what to do. I really don't. I'm scared as hell. I don't know what to do. And you ain't realize you only 12. Then you don't even know these people down here. So you don't think they blaming everything on you? They don't know you. You not from down here. They could just say you didn't did it. I don't know what to tell you. I know. Don't say nothing else. You shouldn't even sign no paper. You sure shouldn't sign no papers. Not at all. So who getting a lawyer? Your dad and they he trying to get down here now. He told me to tell you don't say nothing to them. But you in here steady running your I don't know what the hell is going on. Only what they came out there and told me. They trying to put you away for life. Your whole life. So basically if you don't say nothing um everything on you. Everything is going to be on you. I don't know what to do. I don't I really don't. Boy, this so much [ __ ] You just don't know. You just got yourself all in this [ __ ] All I can tell you, boy, you better tell the [ __ ] what you seen. That's the only thing I can tell you. That's the only thing going to save. Johnson's mother instructs him not to say anything else to the detectives, but she knows that the damage has already been done. I saved your ass. You better tell what the hell you seen. You don't know these [ __ ] down here. You sure don't. Anybody want to see you go to jail? You seen how many um people didn't call crime stops. I guess that's what they done told me. Hanging with the wrong. You want to be a follower. You following people only 12 years old though. Like you not even understanding. You didn't threw your whole [ __ ] life away for nothing though. Boy, you is crazy as hell. I just don't know. They going to meet you sometime cuz you got something to do with you was there. He just didn't understand where I come from. I can't even do nothing. They won't even tell me nothing. What you charged with? Nothing. Cuz they want you to tell what the [ __ ] you seen. Basically, they want you to be a witness saying you seen the boy do this [ __ ] [Music] I don't know. [Music] Let me see now. What they going to do now? Good one. Could you come here for a minute? No, I wanted to talk to you. Yes, ma'am. No. So now what? What do you mean now? What's going to go on there now? Well, unfortunately, I can't. There's You've put a stop to this. You That's your choice. Now, I have to go with what I have. That means he's staying. He's detained. I can't corroborate what he's saying if I can't get to him. And every time I try to talk with him, I have to come out or talk with you. And I understand why. Believe me, I understand why. I I get Yeah, cuz I He don't know. Probably because he on medication and everything. Well, actually, he told me actually he told me he didn't take his medication today. Yeah, he didn't. Right. So, here here's the thing. I can't He's told me a lot of stuff and I get what he's telling me, but there's things that I need to clarify. What he's told me is already happened. What he's told me is already been said. I can't take can't take it back. But what was I was trying to do to help it along is to try to clarify everything that he's saying. There's no secret here. You know, both people are saying things that it's our job to try to figure out who's who who can we prove is is right or wrong. Yeah. Sometimes you prove them right. Sometimes you prove them wrong. But I don't have that opportunity because you don't want me in here. No, my thing was when y'all first started um interviewing him, I supposed to been here. He wasn't supposed to say anything. Actually, that's what I have. He a minor. He only 12 years old. I understand that. what I'm supposed to do by the the statute and the law is as directed by the superiors is and what's told to us. Not we I'm from New Jersey. It's probably the laws is different. That's what I'm saying. If I know for a guarantee fact y'all wasn't supposed to question me or actually anything without we're supposed to make sure you notified and you actually came down with him and I asked him u on two different occasions if not more if he wanted you in here if he wanted to talk to me. and he said he wanted to talk to me and then he would talk to you. So that's his his choice. Okay. But I have to let you hear now. If he says I want you back here, then I got to come get you, which I did. Okay. Yeah, you're right. Another thing I'm sitting here talking to him now. Like basically I told him to tell y'all what the hell went on. Yeah. If you was there, tell what the hell he seen. Not no beat around no bush. You I'm explaining he only 12 years old. He might throw his whole damn life away for some he was with some boy or he was around a boy when it got I don't know what the hell I don't know I don't like I said all you could do is just tell what you've been seeing. Listen I have no trouble trying to listen. I have no trouble trying to work through this. There are certain reasons that we stop and that's that's your choice. I'll be happy to come back in. We'll go over the rights form together so that you understand, so that he understands. And then you may get answers to questions that that you may not even know yourself. If the detective explains the steps she took and why they were legal, the mother is not happy, but understands. Through every means possible, the detective is trying to do everything she can to be fair to Townsen while also getting justice for Trent. It is a delicate balance and whatever the outcome, no one is likely to be satisfied. If that's what he wants, that's his choice. And then I'll explain again. I'll explain the rights for him. I'll sit by you. I'll sit by him. I'll show you what it says. If you all understand it, you you feel he understands it, he feels he understands it, and we can talk. But to to answer your questions, it's unfair because you don't want me to talk to him. So, you have to make that decision. If you want him to tell his side of the story, perfect. That's y'all's choice. I'm going to let you make that. I can't force you to make it. And I'm not telling you I think that's what you should do. You're his mom. You should clearly figure out what's in his best interest. No trouble with that. If that's the case, if that's what you want, I'll go get my papers. I'll go get my forms. I'll go get you the stuff that he's already seen. We can go through it. That's your choice. That's clearly your choice. Well, and it's kind of both of your choices. I mean, he's got to he's got to be the one that agrees to talk to me. And obviously, you're in here now, and I'm going to show you the form. I'm going to go over it with him. I'm going to make sure he understands it so that there's no there is no misconception of what does he understand. Yeah. That's why I was trying to bring my mom back here cuz she know more about this. I'm just growing up. I'm She for real. That's why I had my mom up here. I hear you. What do you want to do at this point, sweetie? far where he going to do. He going to tell y'all what the hell he seen. Okay. Well, let me go and get the papers that he's seen so far and get the forms the form that he signed. Yeah. We'll make sure you And another thing I want to know, can I bring my mom come in here? It's not that I don't want her in here. It's kind of a tight space and it's not um it's easier if there's not so many people yelling at him. Ain't no We ain't ain't nobody yelling at him. We just trying to get the truth out of them. I understand that. And I And I know that's who going to get it out of her. My mom. Are you going to tell her the truth? Okay. You ain't got no other choice. Sure. Don't let me go get your ass getting ready. Get smoked up the road. You boy. Don't hit him. Okay. Um Townsen never gave a reason for the murder of Thomas Trent. During his trial, the argument was made that Townsen's brain abnormalities, untreated mental health, and history of abuse should be taken into consideration. While this was acknowledged by the court, they also had to weigh the fact that Trent was responsible for none of these things and had died for no apparent reason. In the interest of justice, they could not see their way to granting a lighter sentence. February 15th, 2017, Sharon Townsen pleaded guilty in June to seconddegree murder in the murder of 54year-old Thomas. As a part of a negotiated plea, Townsen's sentence had to be at least 10 years, but couldn't exceed 40. Townsen will be able to receive a review of his sentence after 15 years and a second review after 25. Townson's sentence will be followed by 10 years of probation during which he is to receive mental health services and be gainfully employed. And he is also to pay $518 in court costs. Hopefully you enjoyed the video. If you did, there is a Patreon link in the description where you can support the channel further. Thank you for watching. I'll see you in the next one. [Music]