You're looking at footage recorded just moments before a family's entire life changed forever. >> The mom and dad I live next door and the daughter came over and said the mother and father have been shot and they're dead. It's terrible. >> And she said she said they've been shot? >> Yes. They're in the bedroom, man. They're dead. >> What you're about to see helped detectives solve one of Florida's most shocking murder conspiracies. These cameras would capture something the killers never expected anyone would see. >> Everybody's a suspect right now. >> Everybody? >> Everybody's a suspect. >> Okay, well >> Holy [ __ ] what is going on? >> First of all, I'm wondering why. >> Why am I supposed to tell you? >> We cannot help you if you sit here and try to play us for fools. >> For that matter, I'm not capable of what happened to them. >> I'm not dumb or dumb, but [ __ ] I was there, so I must be. >> You know, your investigators are really slow. >> I think I need an attorney then. >> On July 9th, 2009, officers raced to a residence on Mobile Highway expecting to investigate a home invasion. What they walked into instead was something far more horrifying. Byrd and Melanie Billings had been executed inside their own home. Their children were still inside and witnessed the horror. What survived that night were their eight children and 16 surveillance cameras. Together, they would expose one of the largest murder conspiracies investigators had ever seen. And the detectives would soon discover they weren't hunting one killer, they were hunting eight. That's why they needed as much information as possible about the Billings, which is why they brought their son Justin Billings in for an interview. >> You know, I'm coming to talk to you in a minute, okay? >> Okay. >> Well, I just want to introduce myself, not to scare you or make you scared or anything, but I'm Chris Baggett. >> And this is Terry Harding. >> How do you do, sir? >> Um obviously we're all involved in this. >> Yes, sir. >> You know, >> Hey. >> big deal. >> This is So, you need to talk to him. >> Sir. >> Okay, is he ready for me? Yeah. You want me to talk to him? >> Yeah. >> I got a little bored. >> Made a smiley face, huh? >> No, actually I started thinking of the movie in My Bloody Valentine and >> Hey again, man. We appreciate you coming in. >> Well, anything to help. Anything at all. >> Just trying to get some things cleared up. >> Told you, long horns. >> Hey, bud. They just look good on top of that. >> I don't know. I'm stuck with my long horns now. >> You bring any You drove your truck down here? Is that yours? >> Yes, sir. That's my truck. >> Cool. And you know you know you can leave anytime, right? You understand that? >> Yes, sir. >> What we're doing, we got the door closed in case you know there's As you know there's a lot of people in the office for privacy only. And if people like you you want to leave you're free free to leave at anytime, okay? >> I'm I'm here until justice is found. >> Well, hopefully we're on the right track. We know we we talked lengthy last night, you know, about about different situations here. And you you assisted in trying to, you know, identify the car, vehicle, and working with the uh with helping us with the video and everything. What we got, we picked up I just want to look you look at this and is that pretty much the thing? >> Yeah, that's the vehicle. It's the one I saw from the video. >> That's the video at your house? >> Mhm. >> At your mom and dad's house? >> Mhm. I noticed the windows are blacked out. >> You did say You got didn't you? >> I pay attention to detail. I went to that military school. >> Justin isn't just being interviewed as a grieving son. Detectives are quietly evaluating whether he's simply a witness or whether he played a role in setting this entire nightmare into motion. >> Let me ask you this. While we were in the house um and going through the video to get to the vehicle when we're getting to the front yard camera, did you ever see any video of any of that? Answer that. >> Of what happened to my father? Yeah. Yes, sir, I did. >> What did you see? >> I saw three men come in through the door closest to the laundry room. Um I saw my dad go down and then and they dragged and then they dragged him to his room. >> Who did you see that with? >> Uh >> Cuz it wasn't with me. >> No, it was the the other guy that you told me to stay with. I don't remember his name. >> What did he look like? >> He was wearing a yellow shirt last night. And he was >> Big, small? >> And he was shorter than I was. >> What happened? You You Was he working with you on the the >> Yes, sir. >> Black hair? >> Yes, sir. >> Okay. That's the one that was working on the cameras. >> He was up I was showing him how to do it that way. >> Okay. So, while you were with him, you saw all that. >> Yes, sir. >> And what did you say again? >> I saw three men come in through the door closest [clears throat] to the laundry room. And I saw my dad standing Say this is the couch. My dad was right here. I saw him go down right here and then they came over and they dragged him to his room. >> All three of them? >> No, just two of them. I don't know where the third one went. >> You don't have no idea? I couldn't watch anymore. Did you see anything else of it? >> No, sir. >> Was it after that we found the van? You came back to the van before? >> The after the the first time I I went up there to show y'all uh that's when I saw what happened to my father and then I left and then y'all asked me back up there to to change different camera views and to show y'all >> Cuz you knew how to work the system very well. >> Yes, sir. >> Okay. And then uh Okay. So, that's pretty much that end of that night, right? >> Yes, sir. >> And where did you go home that last night? Where did you go to sleep, I mean? >> We went to um Greg's parents' friends, uh his name is Dan. Uh we felt safer there because there's there was two adults. It wasn't just me and Greg at his parents' house. >> How long have you known Greg? >> Since sixth grade. >> Oh, so y'all have been friends for a while. >> Yes, sir. >> Greg is his alibi. He says he was with Greg and his grandmother when he got a call from his sister about an incident that happened at home. >> Did you make any phone calls to anybody but that wasn't family last night? And told them what happened? >> No. I I had family calling me all night though. >> Okay, do you have Did you make a phone call to uh I don't know if she's I don't know if you call her your girlfriend, but you're supposed to go out with her. Um >> Cameron. >> Chamber. >> I called her when I was at my parents' house. Cuz uh we were supposed to meet up, but I was calling to tell her that I could couldn't meet up because something had happened to my parents. >> That's what she said. >> And she was like, "All right, just call me whenever you when you get a chance or whenever you can get the when you're able to speak again." >> Okay. >> And I haven't talked to her since. >> You didn't call her a second time or she didn't call you to check on you? >> She called to check on me again. >> Was it that night or today? >> It was that night. >> What was said then? >> She asked cuz her mom had just found out and her mom was in the background crying asking if I was okay and she just wanted to make sure that I was okay. How was How What was going to happen to the kids? >> Did you tell her what was happening? >> Uh I I told her that if anything actually would get custody of the kids since she was the oldest. >> No, did you tell her anything about the incident? >> Not that I recall. >> You didn't tell her that your mom and dad had been shot? >> I might have. I really don't remember. >> You didn't Did you tell her that the safe had been taken? >> No, cuz I didn't know if it was gone or not. I didn't know anything about the safes until someone kept asking me what was in the contents of the safe. >> Did you know that? >> Uh I knew there was paperwork, jewelry, and prescriptions of my sister who died in August. That's all I know that was in there. >> They hadn't got rid of them yet? >> It's sentimental. My My mom wouldn't have gotten rid of it. My mom has everything of my sister Nikki's. >> That's pretty tough on the family. >> It It was the third one that we had to put down that we had to bury, so it was especially and it was my my mom's biological daughter, so it was even harder. >> It's an unusually detached choice of words, especially in the middle of an interview about losing family. Quick pause to let you know about a new project I'm working on, a channel where I'm experimenting with a darker, more cinematic mini-docs. Black Archive. It's a bit different, but I think you might like it. So, the link's in the description. If this case has you hooked so far, you might want to subscribe. There are a lot more stories like this one on the channel. And with that, let's continue. >> [snorts] >> She had a hard time with that, I guess. Very hard time. We all did. >> Okay, so today Is that pretty much the end of that day, or am I missing something? >> That's pretty much the end of that day. >> Okay. And you don't remember telling Cambry anything about that today. >> No, sir. I don't. >> Okay. So, then today I had to call you, and we had to take care of the dogs. The dogs were Um they were working the crime scene, and they were freaking out. Freaking out. >> Yeah. >> And you took care of that for us. >> Yes, sir. I have the dogs where I'm staying at right now. >> And where are you staying? >> Uh at my sister's uh fiance's house. >> Okay. All right. Now, today Did you have a Do you have a girlfriend, or an ex-girlfriend? Something happened today when you talked to her. >> Uh no. >> Did you learn something? >> No. >> Huh? >> I have a I I have an ex-girlfriend, but I haven't talked to her since me and her broke up. >> What's her name? >> Patricia. >> You didn't talk You didn't talk to her last night, or Y'all weren't in contact last night or today at all? >> No. The only calls I've been answering are family and all that. >> You hadn't talked to her at all? >> No. Me and her are We We broke up on bad terms, so. >> You know who she's seeing now? Is she Have you talked to him? Is she seeing anybody? >> I I don't know. I really don't know. Um The last I heard from from Greg is that she works at McDonald's. >> Uh Patricia? What What was that her name? Patricia? >> Patricia. >> You talked to Patricia's mama? >> I saw her because I went to We went to Waffle House this morning, and then afterwards we went to Walgreens, and her mom works at Walgreens. >> I see. >> And I We bought the paper because I walked in and I saw the paper, and I saw my mom and dad on it, and I grabbed it. And she came up and she hugged me and said, "I'm so sorry." That was it. >> That's all that was said? >> Pretty much cuz she was working and can't really talk much when you're working. >> This Trisha's mom was working then? >> Yes. >> Now, you know how important it is when we're asking these questions cuz we're not saying you done anything, but to help us solve this thing, you know how important it is to >> Oh, yes, I know. >> for honesty. >> Oh. 100% sir. >> And you understand most of the time when him or I ask you a question, we probably know the answer. >> Yes, sir. >> Especially if you're big on CSI and all that like you said. >> Oh, yes, sir. I don't know. I know. >> So, then why would we ask if you talked to her? >> Just seeing if I if I have or haven't. >> Don't you think we know the answer to that? >> You probably do. >> So, what do you think that we know? >> That I didn't. >> Did you text her? >> I text her. I didn't talk to her. >> Okay. Well, I'm sorry. I didn't know I had to be that stupid. >> I Yeah, she text me. >> Cuz we can play games like this all night. Now, cuz I can get silly. No, cuz I don't think that's funny at all. >> No, no, she she did text me and asked me if everything was okay. >> Why wouldn't you tell me that when I asked you? >> You asked if I talked to her. I didn't talk to her. I text her. >> Why wouldn't you say that then? And I'm not getting in your I'm not busting your chops, man, but you got to help us. >> I understand. >> If I'm if I'm here trying to work with you and we're trying to take care of seeing you killed your mother and father. >> Yes, sir. >> Or rather executed them. >> Yes, sir. >> Why Why when I asked you that question, why wouldn't you say, "Well, no, but I text her."? >> Up until now, the interview has been fairly straightforward. That's about to change. >> Okay, during them texts then, what did you learn? >> Uh just that she had found out from the news and she was wondering if I was okay. Uh what was going to happen with the kids. >> Right. See, that's not that hard. >> Right. >> You see what I mean about playing games? >> Yes, sir. >> I mean And now you're all upset with me cuz your demeanor's changed. >> Yes, sir. >> And you know what? I'm upset cuz I don't understand the reasoning for that, but that's okay. We'll We'll keep going. Honest mistake, okay? >> Yes, sir. >> Let's just stay on track. >> Yes, sir. >> You know what I mean? Cuz we don't we don't need to go that route. All right. So, you talked to her and you texted her. >> Yes, sir. I texted her. >> Um and that's not a problem. We don't care if you talk to her. >> Yes, sir. >> And during them texts, what's happened? >> Uh she was just worried about what was going to happen with the kids. Cuz when we dated, she >> She and y'all were close. >> Yeah, she She hung out with the kids. We took them, you know, to the movies, to the Biloxi Shrimp Festival. So, her concern was what's going to happen with the kids. And I told her Ashley's probably going to get custody of her of all of them or most of them, I think. And then uh I haven't heard after that. I haven't texted her. >> Nothing else happened? >> Uh no. >> She never told you that she was pregnant? >> She said that she might be. Didn't say she was. >> So, when I say that nothing's happened, you didn't think that was important? >> Well, when something She said She said she's been pregnant before. And >> I see. >> And she wasn't, so I didn't take anything >> I got you. >> cuz >> She played games or something like >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Okay. I mean that Some women are crazy like that, you know? >> Yeah. And I didn't think anything of it cuz she said she was pregnant before when we were dating and she took a test and she wasn't. And then she said it again uh right before we broke up. And she wouldn't even get blood test on that one and she wasn't. So, that's the strike two. I mean, I >> So, that when she told you today that didn't mean nothing. Okay. Oh, see I didn't know that. >> Yeah. >> To me that would be a big event, but now I understand. It's the third time, so it didn't mean that much to you. Is that true? >> Yes, sir. >> Okay. And you never talked to her on the phone. >> No, I did not. >> Actually speak to her on the phone that day. What about her mother? You talked to her mother? >> I talked to her mom. >> This after that afternoon? This afternoon? >> Yeah, uh >> What was that conversation about? >> Uh she was worried uh she was wanting to know how I was holding up if she could do anything to help or if I needed anything to call her or to come find her or whatever. And I talked to her older sister Karen cuz she called me and told me if you just need to talk or cry or or shoulder to to to talk to or whatever, just to call her and let her know and >> So, they generally care for you. >> Yes. >> That family. >> Yes, sir. >> Investigators discovered Justin had made an unusual phone call before the murders. He warned Patricia's mother that someone had supposedly placed a hit on his father which raises an obvious question. If Justin knew enough to warn someone, how much did he actually know? >> So, we're here and that's why you're here today. Yes, we're showing you these photos uh uh you know, making sure this is right. And I think he's got some a person you're going to show before we leave. And um and trying to figure that out cuz if you think that, if you're scared to tell us, we want to know so we can try to work it. >> when I talked to my sister today, I I realized that uh the only reason why I thought I was a target is because I knew what uh there's a guy named Cab that double-crossed my dad with car business or something. I know him and my dad got into a big argument and I was there when it happened. >> You were? >> I was >> When did the argument take place? >> Oh. About a year ago, I think. I I don't know. >> What you saying an argument? What was it? Was there threats made or >> No, no. Just that my dad was disappointed in him for stealing from him. I mean, he said if you needed money, you could have just asked. You didn't have to steal it from me. And and Cab just stormed out. And after that, that's that's all I know. >> Who's that? >> That's Cab. >> That's Cab? >> That's Cab. >> That's who your dad is having the problems with? >> Yeah. >> Is there Is there any kind of lawsuit against this this man? >> [clears throat] >> I think my dad was trying to sue him for theft or or something. That's all I know. >> Are they partners or is dad this man or they >> They were cuz they used to sell cars down to Mexico and all that. >> This may seem insignificant right now, but remember it's Mr. Cab Tice is of importance in this case and would make a comeback in this video later. >> We cannot help you if you sit here and try to play us for fools. We've done this too long, man. Let me Do I think you killed your mom and dad? No. No. >> Hey. >> No. Do I think you planned this? No. Do I think you suspect someone or maybe have some insight on who did this? Yeah. Sure do. Sure do. I believe that. >> I don't know anything else. Really honest, I really don't. Believe me. >> I want to believe you, Justin. >> If I knew more information, I'd be chasing these people down myself. >> That's not That's not That's not what you That's not you what you're here for. That's not your job to chase these folks down. I I know where you're coming from. I do I do feel I promise you I feel the same way. >> You believe me if if I knew any more >> I ain't no problem to I would feel the same way. >> If I knew any more, if I knew who it was, or where they're at, or anything. >> See, and that's what I'm afraid of. I'm afraid you do know more and you're going and you're trying to take care of it more than we can. And we don't want that happening to you. Do you understand what I'm saying? >> Yes, sir. >> Y'all your family has had enough crap going on within the last year and a half, 2 years. Please, and he's already told you, and I'll tell you, please let us handle it. And don't put them through no more. Cuz I'm telling you we We've done this long enough, I can tell you that's not true. Okay? Now, the ball's in your court. Here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to leave my card. See that? >> Yes, sir. >> Cell phone number's on the back. >> Yes, sir. >> You call me anytime you want to. Okay? >> Yes, sir. >> And my And my office number's on the front. Call me or Investigator Watts, okay? If you need something. >> Until this point, Justin looked like one of the detectives' biggest questions. Then the red van was found. Within hours, the investigation shifted away from the family and toward an eight-person murder plot that had been hiding in plain sight. And the first domino to fall was Patrick Gonzales Sr. Right now, you can watch another incredibly intense case on my Patreon. Discover the disturbing story of the Ken and Barbie killers, a terrifying tale about a couple obsessed with violence. Dive into their dark journey as they become immersed in unimaginable horrors. Watch this shocking video along with many others at patreon.com/strangerstoriesplus. >> You go. >> Where do you get in at? >> Where did I get in at? >> Yeah, y'all are walking to the van to get in to leave. Where do you get Where Do you drive it? >> No. >> All right, where do you get in? Where do you sit? >> Probably shotgun. >> Okay, who's driving? >> I'll be honest, I swear I don't know who was driving. >> Okay, you told me you told me earlier Pat was driving. >> Pat didn't drive that van more than a shift. >> Okay. >> I'll think Why you want to know? >> Okay. All right, where was Okay, where was Pat? >> He was over here. >> Where was he at? >> I think he was in the gold Explorer. >> Okay. You leave your yard, which way do you go? >> Beverly Parkway, straight out to Beverly Parkway, take a right on Mobile Highway. Keep going out until you come to 9 Mile, take a left. >> Okay. >> So, I got to be on 9 Mile. >> Yeah, I was wrong about that. It's on 9 Mile. Okay. You pull in the driveway, what happens? >> Everybody jumps in, doors kicking open. Everybody on the ground. >> Okay. All right. >> That's all I thought it was. Okay. >> Okay. >> Restraining people. >> All right, I'm going to show you a photograph of a house. Now, could you mention where they went in? And it's a nighttime photograph, but could you point to those doors that you're talking about and just put an X mark where you're talking about. And then >> One. >> And then uh put your initials by it if you don't mind or we get up Um >> Two. >> Uh Bobby, can you holler for a Sharpie cuz it's not coming out? >> And then there's one right there. >> Patrick Gonzales Sr. may not have pulled every string, but he knows exactly how this plan came together. According to investigators, he was drawn into the conspiracy after being told the Billings children were being abused and tortured inside the home. It was a lie that helped recruit him into one of the most disturbing home invasion plots detectives have ever seen. >> Okay. Okay. >> Can we get a Sharpie then? James, we need a Sharpie. >> All right. >> And there's one and you're telling me right here right here? >> Yeah, on the side. >> Okay. All right. I'm going to go I got to get a darker pen. But what I want you to do is to initial those, okay? And then you said you were you were still in the van. What did you do next? >> Got in the driver's seat. >> Uh-huh. >> They told me to get in the driver's seat and turn it around while I ain't got no business in the driver's seat. Look at them only two doors getting into the back of it on the outside. I would say I'm not plumb dumb, but [ __ ] I was there, so I must be. >> All right. And then what happens after that? >> We get down in the yard doors. Nobody else in there. Everything's going fine and then all of a sudden >> Okay. All right. What did you think when you heard that pow pow pow pow pow? >> I like to [ __ ] on myself. I thought, "Oh dear God, no." And I'm hoping they're just shooting in the ceiling or some kind of [ __ ] Trying to scare the hell out of somebody. >> Okay. And you said earlier they were all kind of different types of guns, but do you remember if Wayne had a big gun or a handgun? >> I think he had a handgun. >> Okay. Do you remember Pat had a big gun or a handgun? >> Um >> I think yeah, yeah, he had a handgun. >> Do you remember if the blacks had big guns or handguns? >> I think big guns. >> Big guns? When when we say big guns, are we talking like this or you know, like this or how do we how Describe to me what you mean by big gun. >> Street sweeper. >> Okay. All right. Okay. They come back, they get the van. Where do you go? >> We go down about two or three blocks down on Old Damon Road. We take a left. Swap everything out of the van. Wayne and I take the van. Take a right, go straight back to my house. And we got down around Mobile Highway and where that Alabama Produce Mart used to be. And a county mountie comes slinging around there going woo woo. I said, "Shit, we know where they're going." >> Okay. And y'all went on to your house? >> Yes, sir. >> Okay. All right. What happened there? What happened at your house, Mr. Gonzales? >> Put the van up. Put the van back at the thing. >> Was there a discussion about splitting up the stuff there at the house? >> Yeah, when everything gets taken care of then we'll split it up. >> Who said that? >> After you get >> Okay. Was he Did he have the stuff? >> I don't know. >> Okay. He's got it. >> I I'll just need to steal Bobby real quick. >> Okay. Um go ahead. >> Okay. We're at We're at the house at this point. Is this where we decided to paint it and all? Okay. Very briefly tell us what you did to the to the van. >> Painted the [ __ ] out of the side of it. That wasn't changing the color color. And we were scared. I said, "Well, hell. We're missing here out of gas and I'll change the color." So, I run about 50/50. We ran out of gas and as you can see one one side's red, one side's purple. >> Okay. Do you know where any of the guns are or might be now? >> No, sir. I have not the vaguest idea, so help me God. >> I believe you. Now, what about Wayne? Has he said anything about his gun, where it is or what he did with it? Do you know what kind of gun he had? >> No, I don't. >> When the black men came over to your house the day y'all went to do the robbery, who who introduced them to you? Was Wayne there and introduced them to you? >> Wayne was there. Patrick was there. And the four blacks and everybody just kind of My name is Frank. >> Well, that's what I was getting ready to ask you. What's the What names did the blacks give you? I'm sure they must have given you may have given you false names, but >> One of them was G. >> Was what? G? >> G. Like the letter G. >> Correct. >> Okay. The other one was uh I want to say David or Ricky or some kind of [ __ ] like that, but I'm not sure. Okay. That's good enough. >> Okay. Okay. Hey, bud. That's it. No, man. Okay. Let's see. I think we've got back up. >> Yeah, let's uh talk about Let me step out and see and talk to some other people and see I'm considering letting you call your son and try and convince him to come in and uh talk to us. Will you do that for me? Is >> I wish y'all let my ass go. >> Let me know. >> Um All right. For the record, Mr. Edger is stepping out and I'm going to I'm going to do a little mop up work >> Okay. >> for this official statement >> Okay. >> and then I'll turn it off >> Okay. >> from there, okay? >> Yes, sir. >> For the record, is there any chance of me going home tonight? >> No, sir. I'm sorry. I can't I can't let you go. >> Patrick Senior won't be going home anytime soon, but he's far from the last arrest. Detectives believe his son orchestrated the entire operation and now they're racing to identify everyone else who helped carry it out. That's when another name enters the investigation, Frederick Thornton. >> Now, what I was saying about those pictures, I'm going to show you a set of pictures here. I turned it over so you can't see it. Like I was saying a while ago, person may or may not be pictured in there. There's going to be six photos. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. If you see somebody involved in this, I'm just saying as you did the other night, okay? The time right now is 11:35 hours. We'll put it like that. Do you see anybody that was involved in this? Look at pictures carefully. I want you to be certain. >> Tomorrow I want a protection, right? >> We're going to do always our best to make sure you are safe. I promise you that. I told you that to you and your mama the other night. We meant that. Now, your mama isn't in my county. And I realize you're scared. You told me the other night you were scared. But I told you that officer over there is going to make sure best of his ability your mom and family are safe. I know you've been threatened. And we're going to make sure you are safe, best of our ability, okay? All right? I don't want you scared, you know? But if you see something involved in there in this picture, I think in this case we're we're looking for it. Do you recognize anybody in there by the name of Pat? If you would indicate for us and sign just like you did the other night. All right. And I'll give you the time of the day. Um it's 11:36 hours. And today's date is 7/15/09. >> What is today's date? >> 7/15/09. Okay? And this is You wrote next to number five. Is that your indication right there? Could you circle the whole picture for me just cuz it's right there to the side, you know. Now, I'm going to do the same exact thing um as we just did. And um on this one can I flip it over and you just look and see if there's anybody there you recognize. In this case, I think we're looking to see if you recognize um a a stalls as you call them, I think is what you call them. And do the same thing. If you see a person, it may be not may not be picture there. If you see him indicate so, if he's not there tell me so. >> I don't know what time it is. I'm going to >> Oh, I'm sorry. Uh yeah, the time now is 11:36 7 hours. And the um date is 7:15 09. Okay. Um again, it looks like you're indicating number five there if you would circle. Okay. Same thing here but those are fine on that one. Um same thing here. I'll let you look carefully at now this woman that you described to us as blonde hair, she may or may not be picture there. I know you you told us you only saw her that one night but if you see her, please indicate so. If you don't see her, let us know. Okay. You're shaking your head but I I don't know if what that Are you saying you don't see her or you don't know or >> I don't know. >> You don't know? You don't recognize her in this line up or anything? Okay. I'll give you chance look at it to give it. It looks like you're still looking lucky at each picture carefully. You want to be sure of these things, I understand. >> I really don't know. >> Okay. >> There's one face Frederick can identify. Pamela Wiggins, the eighth and final suspect. Unlike the others, she arrives prepared, says very little, and has a lawyer sitting right beside her. >> Could I get you to sit on that green chair? Mr. Wiggins, could you sit on that black chair? Okay. Okay. So, we're going to have have a tape recorder here. I'm going to turn it on and start recording. I'll make a brief announcement and we'll All right. Okay. This is Investigator Buddy Nesmith. The date is uh Wednesday, July 15th, 2009. Time is 7:10 p.m. Uh And if you would, um because of the the mic, if you'd uh state your name as recognition of that the tape. >> Pamela Long. >> And And also present is her attorney, Charlie Wiggins. All right. My name is Greg Marcille, Assistant State Attorney. Um Ms. Long, um we have discussed this matter with your attorney, and uh pursuant to that discussion, it's my understanding that you're going to give a statement. Pursuant to that uh agreement, the State of Florida, uh through the State Attorney's Office, will grant you use immunity. Use immunity means that we cannot use any statements that you make against you. Do you understand that? You know, you're going to need to say something out loud. You do understand? >> sort of yeah. >> All right. Do you have a question about it? If you have a question, ask me now. >> Oh, >> I'm sure I did, but I I'm really fuzzy right now, so. >> Well. >> And and just it has been a while. She's the most she's had in many hours is just a small plate of chips, but we're going to suffer through this, okay? Do you feel comfortable going forward? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> I'll do the best I can. >> All right. I don't know what I'm going to do is state one more time that state attorney's office will grant you immunity at this time. Any statements that you make cannot be used against you. Also, we have agreed that pursuant to our discussions, that you will be charged as an accessory after the fact, but in consideration of your making a statement cooperating at this time, you will be allowed to to have a bond set on that charge of $10,000. Do you understand that? >> Yes. >> Do you also understand that this agreement entails that you cooperate and are truthful, and that if you do not cooperate or are not truthful in your statements, then the agreement is is not going to be enforced. >> Yes. >> Okay. Understanding all that, are are you ready to answer the questions? >> Yes. >> Okay. Thank you. >> [clears throat] >> Okay. Because of time, is the S&O a couple of evidentiary items. Can you tell me where the safe is located? >> The safe is located in the rear corner of my yard under a pile of bricks. You know, your investigators are really sloppy looking for things. >> Okay. When [snorts] you say the rear corner, where where >> Did you notice while investigators are discussing the murders of two parents, Pamela's demeanor appears unusually detached? She is, in fact, amused at times. >> Entering the property, the left rear corner right in front of the garage, there is a pile of brick. >> Okay, when you say garage, is that the garage of the house or the >> of the house >> Out back? >> Out back? >> The corner of the yard, um where um the left side of the garage in the back. >> It's not behind the garage, it's in front of the garage cuz the garage is way back in the corner. But it's in the left, you need to go in the yard to go to to the left side >> Uh-huh. >> and it's in front of the garage way back in the back and it's a pile of rubble. There was a stack of bricks and they piled through them. They didn't even touch the pile of rubble. >> Okay, and do I have your permission to go in your yard and look in that rubble? >> Yes, I would like to make a request. >> Okay. >> Um Steve Hartley works on my classic cars on regular basis and I want to maintain that business relationship with him. And I'm a mother with a 13-year-old and neighbors and so forth. So, if you just send somebody out there to go a couple guys go retrieve it discreetly without making a big media event of it and 20 cars like you did the other night. I mean, my 13-year-old little girl is visiting her grandparents in Ocala. A friend in the neighborhood calls calls her up the other night and says, "There's 20 cop cars in your yard and everybody's getting arrested and they don't know so she calls me and freaking out. "Mom, what's going on? What's what's up? What's" >> May I step out to make that request? >> We will You can make that request but we trust that law enforcement agency will use their their their their best discretion. >> I mean, there's no threat in either situation. >> There's there's nobody home, is there? >> There's nobody there. >> Okay. >> There's no threat in either situation. Steve Hartley is a great guy. He does auto mechanic work at his house. There's no threat there. >> Well Well, to go to to go to Mr. Hartley's house, we We to make contact Mr. Hartley. >> Okay. >> And when you describe it, I I know where that house is at. Okay? [laughter] Uh now, as far as your house, there's nobody home, and you're giving us just permission to go in there discreetly and and retain it. >> And just without making a big hubbub of it. >> Yes, ma'am. I understand. Believe me, I understand. There's been hubbub. Okay, let me make that request real quick. I'll be right back. >> Pamela is a mother herself, yet investigators are questioning her about a home invasion that left 17 children without the two people they depended on most. >> And then I got the safe out of there, and then I took the guns out of there, cuz I just wanted that stuff away from me. >> When you say they say you got the safe out of there and the guns out of there, are you are you >> Two different times. >> Okay. >> Okay, to move the safe, which was I guess right before the search warrant. >> Mhm. >> And then after the search warrant, I'm like, "Holy [ __ ] what is going on?" I need I don't I don't know what happened with these guns. I don't know what he did with them or didn't do with them. He told me he didn't use them. Whether he did or he didn't, I don't know. But I was just didn't want anything to do with it. Wanted it away from me. >> Okay. So, you you prior to the search warrant, you moved the guns to the business. >> To the container outside. >> To the container outside. Okay. All right. And I have to ask, during the search warrant, it was common knowledge we were looking for a safe. Why didn't you tell me it was there? >> Why am I supposed to tell you? Y'all were in there tearing my house apart. I couldn't even step in the door of my bedroom. Took me 3 hours to put my bed back together where I had a place to sleep. >> Okay. But for somebody and being cynical, but somebody that didn't know what was going on and with a search warrant for safe. Wouldn't have been easy to get the safe. >> me about it. A search warrant for a safe. They They said we got a search warrant. We're looking for guns and this and this and this and And I don't even know what's on that search warrant. >> Okay. The sheet was red and safe was listed in the in the affidavit in the search warrant. >> That's part of my issue right now with all the stress and the medication. I I hear things and they're kind of blurry. >> Mhm. >> Like someone is like you asked me was he dropped off or picked him up? I don't know. I couldn't tell you. I've also got stuff in the last couple months again. >> Okay. Okay. With your dealings with Pat when was the first time your knowledge was that they were going to rip somebody off? >> A while back couple months ago or so I heard him talking about some guy that was laundering money. That That he was a nasty, evil, horrible guy and he's laundering money for the Mexican mafia and so forth and so on. And some guy said something about they wanted to get rid of him. >> Some guy? Who is some guy? >> What he told me was somebody Cab or Cabo or something like that. >> What did Pat say about Cabo or Cab? >> He just said that there was a contract out on that guy. >> And who is that guy? >> Apparently the victim. >> Did he say the victim? >> No. Uh-uh. >> Did he ever mention that guy by name? >> I probably I think I heard the name Billings or something. I never met him, never saw him, didn't know anything about it. >> One more name surfaces during the investigation, Cab. Justin had mentioned him earlier, but detectives eventually determined that while there had been personal conflicts, nothing connected him to the murder plot. >> Okay. Where did this conversation take place? >> I don't remember. >> Did this conversation take place in your house? >> I don't remember. I don't recall. >> Did this conversation take place in the upstairs of your house? >> I don't know. I don't remember. I think you know there was probably several different conversations about him making a robbery. But that was as far as I knew is he was going to rob somebody. >> Did those conversations happen in your house? >> There probably were some there. Um but where else, you know, probably riding down the road. I've got a back porch upstairs. Sometimes we sit up there and talk. And he would um tell me his thoughts on things and I told him no. I don't don't It's not a good idea. Don't do it. >> The deeper detectives dig, the stranger this conspiracy becomes. These suspects supposedly trained together for weeks, yet some barely even knew each other's names. It wasn't one close-knit criminal group. It was a tangled web held together by one deadly objective. And right in the middle of that was Pamela Wiggins, who even involved her own husband, Hugh Wiggins, by using his vehicle as the getaway car. >> You want to start with me, Sam, this or you start with yours? >> I'll start with yours. >> Can I have a minute with him on the stand? Well, >> you got about a minute. >> That's all right. I'm sorry. >> That's all right. >> We've been going back and forth. >> You got a minute. >> to leave. >> This room is actually >> One minute. Okay. >> This room is what? >> Uh this is the room >> right now? >> Yes, and probably. >> Well, can we just step outside for a minute? >> Sure. >> I want to talk for a second. Um >> [clears throat] >> All right, I want to talk for a second. Is there a room to talk to him in the court? >> Just give me a heads-up. Do you think I have time to take a leak real quick? >> Yeah. >> I'm actually I'm glad I got to do that. >> You don't always say. >> Do you got to go to the >> Are we ready now? >> Do you all need an extra chair? We need an extra chair unless you don't want to >> I'm going to stand just for a moment. I'm not going to be here for the whole conversation. I'll be here for for about 5 minutes. >> Okay. >> All right, are we ready to go? >> You got a forward? >> Before we go on, I want >> [cough and clears throat] >> He tells me that he knows a lot. He doesn't know how much you want him to tell. I told him just to answer your questions. >> We're going to be very thorough about everything that he knows. >> Okay. >> Um if you feel the need to talk to Eric, just indicate >> If you want to know everything that I know, you're going to be here all night. >> so what I was going to suggest was tomorrow when >> If time's of the essence, maybe you want to get out of him what you need to get out of him and we come back for a subsequent I don't know. >> We'll see where we're at. >> They know what they're doing. >> giving you a heads-up on that. >> I understand. All right. Um we're going to begin with the Miranda just so you are aware of it even though it may not actually apply at this point, but just to be on the safe side so you know everything. As I was saying, my name is Greg Marcia, I'm an assistant state attorney. As such, I am authorized by Florida law to grant you use immunity for the statements that you are going to give today. Use immunity means that the statements that you make cannot be used against you. Uh the additional aspects of our agreement are that there is no promises as to whether or not you might be charged as a result of your involvement. We cannot use those statements against you to prove those charges. We will give consideration to your cooperation in making a decision as to whether or not you should be charged. >> [clears throat] >> You've also asked about um uh I believe it's Pam Long or Pam Wiggins. >> Pam Long. >> Um we have uh agreed that even though she will be charged with accessory after the fact, we will agree to a bond of $10,000 and allow her to be released on that bond once she is processed. Um the statements that you make, I understand that you are concerned about those statements being used against her. There's no promises that those statements will not be used against her, but we will take your consideration, your your uh cooperation into consideration in deciding how that would be handled. Eric does that uh say our agreement is you and I agree with what we discussed? >> Yes, it does. >> Okay. Uh do you understand that, Mr. Wiggins? >> Yes. >> Okay, based on on those understandings, are you ready to answer the questions of the officers? >> Yes. >> Okay, thank you. >> We're going to not going to go in the exact order that probably you would want. The first question we have is where is the safe? >> Do you want me to tell you or do you want me to take you to it? >> I want you to tell me at this point. >> Well, first of all, I don't know for a fact that it's there. I was just told that it was there. >> Who Who told you? >> Pam told me. >> When did she tell you? >> Yesterday. >> And what was that location she gave you? >> In the backyard. >> Of The house. >> Your house? >> Yes. >> What's that address? >> 1247 Ramblewood Drive. >> Where is it buried in the backyard? >> Under a pile of bricks. >> Pamela gives detectives the same location Hugh had already mentioned. On the surface, their stories seem to line up. But detectives believe both of them are still guarding some secrets that they're unwilling to let out. >> Is that sufficient? You were at that house. Do you recall pile of bricks? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> In the backyard. >> [clears throat] >> Um the murder weapon. >> I There again, like I don't know these things to be true. That's just what I was told. >> Okay. What was she giving you? Where is it at? >> Uh Under >> Under the backseat of the car. >> Which car? >> Uh The 1971 Buick GS. >> Where is that car currently located? >> I don't I don't know where the car is. >> It's >> It's supposed to be getting the air conditioner fixed. That's all I know. She can tell you that. >> When did it get taken to get fixed? >> The car? >> Yes. >> I don't know. It happened when I was gone. >> And she said it's under the backseat. >> That's what she told me. >> And she let this car go to a shop for repair? >> I I don't The car may have already been there. I don't know. I don't know. You're asking me questions I can't answer. The car was probably already there. The car was there. >> Okay. Where >> she took the car before. >> Okay. Now, where is there? >> I don't know. I don't know where it is. It's over on the west side somewhere. >> Okay. Have you been present for her to take the car for repair before? >> No. >> Have you heard of where she take has taken the car to be repaired before? >> She told me who the guy is, but I don't know. I never met him. I don't know him. I don't even I'm not even sure what his name is. >> Anything about him? Phone number, location, phone number? >> Uh the car's over It's on the west side. That's all I can tell you. I [clears throat] mean, I I could probably I could take you there, I'm pretty sure. >> Okay. >> Because she said something about it some one time. I Like I said, I've never been there, never talked to the guy or any of that stuff. >> If you could take me there, explain to me how you would take me there. >> It's I think it's off of Jackson. >> Okay. If we're on Jackson Street, what part of Jackson Street? >> On the other side of uh New Waring Road. On the other side of Let me see. Uh I want to say it's down there where the streets are numbered. >> Okay. So, one of the avenues. And is it a repair shop itself, or is it somebody's private residence? >> It's I think it's a residence. I think he lives there and works out of his garage. >> Is it one that he has a a you know, posted that he repairs, like a sign out front or >> I don't know. He does I guess he specializes or he works mostly on older cars. >> Okay. But you said you you would be able to take me there. So, if we're driving down Jackson, what would be the landmarks or um references you would use to get there? >> I let me think. I'm kind of shook up here, fellas. >> Sure. Okay, let's go. >> [clears throat and cough] >> When was the first time you heard of this robbery? incident >> I guess it was a couple of days after it happened because I was offshore when it happened. >> Okay. >> I mean, I was offshore offshore. I don't mean I I mean I was like 120 miles away from and I wasn't didn't pay I wasn't watching the news or anything like that. We work 12 hours on 12 hours off, which means I'm up about 14 or 15 hours a day. So, when I get off, I take a shower, usually lay down, do some reading. So, I wasn't watching TV. When I'm on, I'm not sitting around watching TV. I'm working. >> Okay, and who told you? >> Pam did when I called her. >> So, she told you this information over the phone? >> What information? >> About this incident. >> About the incident? She told me that that it something bizarre had happened. >> Okay. And explain that. >> She thought it was a some kind of she said that sounds to me like it's some kind of a gang thing. Well, I don't I don't know. I mean, I guess it could be. I mean, I don't know. >> What else do you know about this case? >> What else do I know? >> Mhm. I mean, how did she come in possession of this um safe being hidden in your backyard under bricks and uh the the murder weapon in the back seat of a Buick GS that she owns? >> Actually, the car is in my name. >> Okay. Uh >> At first, it almost seems like Pamela dragged her husband into this nightmare for no reason at all, but detectives soon realized Hugh wasn't just in the wrong place at the wrong time. >> I wasn't there. I don't know how it all came to be. I this is just what I what she told me that's where it was. >> That's what we wanted. I mean this comes up and your wife says, "Hey, the murder weapon for this incident is under the backseat of your car and we have the safe from that incident buried in our backyard." That's how this conversation went? >> No. No, it's not. >> You might want to elaborate. >> This is the way that I understand it. Is that Patrick called her all you know, stressed or whatever, wigging out, I don't I don't know. And he said "Here." You know, basically. >> And he just came over and gave it to her? >> I don't know I >> [clears throat and cough] >> I think he met her down at the antique mall. >> Okay. How did Why do you think that? >> I just from the conversation that we had. >> Could you elaborate on the conversation you had? >> That's I mean, she she's saying that that he called her and said, you know, I you know, I I need your help or something like that. I guess they met at the antique mall. I don't you know, I wasn't there. This is all what I was told. You know, what she told me. >> Okay. >> And she went to the mall and he was he met her there or or something, I don't know. I don't I I don't know that she had any idea. You know. >> [clears throat] >> And then he just he says, you know, "Here. Do something with it." or whatever he said, I don't know. >> We have more information of her involvement than that. And I was under the impression that you had more information of her involvement than this. I got alluded to that you would know who was the orchestrator of this incident [snorts] and that you would be naming him. Do you have that information? >> As far as the orchestrator goes? >> Yeah. >> I'm not sure what you mean by the orchestrator. >> Well, who who put this plan together? >> Oh, yeah, I I can tell you that. >> Okay, tell me. >> Patrick did. >> Okay, and how do you know that? >> Because he discussed it with me. >> When did he discuss this with you? >> Uh a while back. I can't recall how long ago. >> Can you give me a best estimate of time? Was it before the incident took place? >> Well, yeah, cuz I was gone when it happened. >> Okay, and where did this [clears throat] conversation take place? >> Um I would imagine either in the car driving down the road or at my at our house. >> Okay, so you don't recall the conversation? Or I recall the conversation. Okay, and you don't recall where you were at. >> We were at We were at the house. >> Okay, and you're sure of that? >> Yes. >> Okay, who else was at the house when this conversation took place? >> He and I. >> Nobody else? >> In the when the conversation took place? >> Yes. >> In the house itself? >> Yes. >> Uh I can't remember. I It I mean it could have been >> [clears throat] >> his wife could have been there, Pam could have been there, kids could have been there. I mean, they all could have been outside in the pool. >> Well, think about this. Think about this conversation. What What did he tell you about it? >> He said that someone had offered that he had been offered a contract. >> What kind of contract? >> To eliminate >> And did he say about who? >> Yes. >> And who is that he said give him the contract? >> He told me that Cab Tice put the contract out for 20 grand. >> So you understand that he was going to be paid 20 grand to take out the the Billings and I'm assuming? >> Him. >> Him, Mr. Billings? >> Mr. Billings. I guess I I'm not even Mr. Billings, is that his name? >> Yes. >> Okay. I'm sorry, but you know, I'm not >> Okay. Tell me exactly how the conversation went. And why would he be telling you this? >> He thought I might want to be involved. >> Okay. So how did he ask if you wanted to be involved? >> He just he said that Cab told him that there was a substantial amount of money involved. >> Okay. You said a specific 20,000. Where did that come from? >> No, I'm talking about in the Billings home. >> Okay. >> And he thought that I would be interested because [clears throat] of the amount of money that was there. And I told him it wasn't worth that. I'm not interested in it. I've got a career. You know, I got a woman that I love that loves me back. And >> And he was comfortable with you having knowledge of this and just declining the offer? >> Yeah, I guess he thought he was going to change my mind or that you know, or that once he you know, put everything out there that it was going to look good, but >> How well do you know Patrick? >> I've known him for a I've known him for a while. Years, in fact. I don't back when he was in the car salesman business. But I haven't seen him or talked to him much in Well, for a long probably I don't know. 6 or 7 years and then about a year and a half ago he got back in touch with me. I'm not I'm not not really sure how he got back in touch with me. >> Well, since that year and a half y'all have gotten back in touch with each other, how often do you see or communicate with one another? >> Sometimes we would talk on the phone when I was at work if I had phone service. Uh he might come by you know, a few times a week when I was home. >> Once again, Cab's name surfaces during the investigation. But, despite being mentioned multiple times, detectives find nothing connecting him to the murders themselves. >> Let me ask you something. >> You know, I can't recall everything that I said and did. >> We did a search warrant on your residence, where you live. >> Yeah. >> And we recovered a number of weapons. >> Yeah, a number of guns, yeah. >> Right. Where did these weapons come from? We didn't find them at your residence. Where were they kept at? >> I have no idea. I honestly if she told me, I don't know. I don't recall. >> Okay. I believe you said you personally purchased the Ruger Mini-14 and the Colt AR and Ruger 9 mm there. >> Yes. >> The Ruger 9 mm here obviously we we recovered. But, the Ruger Mini-14 and Colt AR, where did you store them prior [clears throat] to your leaving to go back to work? >> the gun locker. >> In the gun locker. Did we find a gun locker there? >> It was It's not a gun It's a locker. It's not a gun safe. >> Okay. >> And I bought that to put ammunition in. >> Okay. >> So, it it be segregated from the guns. >> Okay, you kept those weapons there and we recovered quite a few weapons there as I recall. Uh several shotguns, handguns, uh a rifle, an airsoft I think as I recall too, right? And then um an airsoft, little toy gun. >> Yeah. >> Um and then you're telling us of 1 2 3 4 5 6 more, all long guns. >> Six more and there should only be five. >> Well, two rifles, a shotgun, a 12-gauge, a I mean a shotgun, an SKS, [clears throat] a .223, and a pistol grip shotgun you talked about. >> The S- This SKS is is .223. >> Oh, okay, okay. I see what you're saying. >> Yeah, it's not a That's why I was I ended up trying to find them. I couldn't find a magazine for it because everything is 7.62 and it's they're it's hard to get a .223 magazine for an AK variant. Apparently, it's very difficult. >> Why did you buy all them guns like that? >> I love machines. Why do I have three motorcycles in the shop? And you guys know I got three bikes in the shop cuz y'all went in the shop. I love machinery. >> Okay. >> It I like I like machinery. I like >> Do you understand the question though, why I mean why I'm asking it? I do understand I mean I appreciate >> Okay, I'm not >> Don't you think that it's kind of odd to buy guns, that type of guns especially, that close together, that many? >> No, because I had the opportunity. I've been trying to buy guns for six or eight months now, ever since it looked to me like the Second Amendment was going to be in jeopardy. >> Okay. >> And the fact that these that the so-called assault weapons were going to be no longer available. Why? You want me to tell you the honest truth why I bought those guns? Because I think that before my time is up and certainly before my nephew's time is up, that you may see armed insurrection in this country because of the way things are going. That's the honest truth. That's why I bought them. >> Okay. >> Okay. Now, >> Investigators are now beginning to understand how this operation came together. From the planning to the weapons, every interview reveals another piece of how the group armed themselves before carrying out the home invasion. The only thing left is hearing from the person they believe put the entire plan into motion. >> Project Fight Back. In Project Fight Back. >> Project what? >> Fight Back. >> What is that? >> We provide kidnap prevention, abduction awareness training to children and women. >> With martial arts [ __ ] >> Well, more on awareness and we teach self-defense measures and good defensive tactics. We do that with these kids. >> That's awareness and self-defense tactics. >> Yeah. Uh we um focus on, you know, most times someone gets touched, it's an acquaintance. It's someone they know. Rarely does a stranger come and attack somebody. So, we teach about the red flag characteristics of an acquaintance rapist. If someone touches me in a way that makes me feel bad, I tell someone I trust. Things like that. You know, awareness stuff, you know, empowerment stuff. You can do anything you put your mind to. I talked to them about my background, my past. I'm sure you It's all uh on me. So, you know, I've come a long way. We just got this the Service to Mankind Award from the Sertoma Club. >> Yeah? >> My wife and I did, yeah. We trained 20,000 kids in the last 2 years. >> You work with your wife? >> Mhm. >> What's her name? >> Tabitha. T A B A T H A. >> T A B A T H A Tabitha Gondola? >> Yes, sir. >> Yeah, >> A T H what? >> A, Talitha Gondola. >> Same address and everything? >> Yes, sir. >> Okay. And we appreciate you coming here today. >> Whatever I can do. I don't, you know, believe me, when I saw the the pictures on the uh TV, I I mean, I was like, damn, you know, and I know the guy, you know, so I'm thinking >> You know what guy? >> The guy that this is about. This is about that thing in Beulah, right? That's what my mom told me. So. Yeah. So, I was like, [ __ ] I'm >> You saw the picture of the van on TV? >> Yeah. >> And that's your van? >> Excuse me? >> That picture is the same van that's in your yard, right? >> Similar. Similar. Very similar to that van, but no, it's not it can't be the same van. It's not the same van. >> Okay. Well, why is that? >> Because it it can't be the same van. I mean What do you mean? Oh, okay, I understand what you're saying. >> Why can't >> Because that I mean that van was it's been over there. I mean, it couldn't have >> But it's been at your dad's place? >> Yeah. >> Okay. Um I guess let's Then you know about the death investigation. You know about Mr. Budd. >> Yes. >> Okay. I guess we'll start how do you know him? >> I've known him let's see, about [clears throat] 2 years ago. He made a donation to Project Payback. >> What do you mean by donation? >> He gave us $5,000. >> 5,000? >> Didn't buy it alone, nothing. He just sent it to us. He said, I like what you're doing. Yeah. >> That's how you met him? >> Yep. >> Okay. And what happened from there? >> That's I mean, I haven't spoken with him in or seen him in a couple years. >> In a couple years? Did you ever have a studio out in >> Yes, that's the one that he helped me with. That was for maybe a year, year and a half or >> the name of that studio? >> Um, it was Project Fight Back, but it was ultimate martial arts. We were teaching the UDT stuff in there. That stuff there. It's been about a year and a half, 2 years ago. >> Ultimate martial arts? >> Yes, sir. >> Detectives quickly notice something familiar. The same story used to recruit Patrick Senior is now being repeated almost word for word. It appears to have been been the sales pitch that helped build the conspiracy. >> I appreciate you working with us. And that's all we're doing, man. Just trying to get this get this solved. >> Yeah. I mean, I hope you do. The guy had, you know, like 15 kids. >> Yeah. He didn't deserve to die like that. >> No. Or the woman. That's the That's the thing that really gets me. I mean, if it were like a First of all, I'm wondering why I'm wondering why nobody got shot. You know what I mean? That's what I'm wondering. Because Bud used to carry a gun. You know what I mean? So, I'm wondering why he didn't >> Who used to carry a gun? >> Bud Billings. >> Oh, Bud? >> Yeah, he goes by Bud. >> Okay. He normally carries a gun? >> Mhm. He told me. >> You only met him twice when he told you that? >> Mhm. Yeah, the second >> Oh, cuz y'all talked about Okay, that makes sense. >> Okay. Yeah. I'm getting ahead of myself. I'm like, what? >> I know I know I know what you're talking about. I watch Law & Order. >> I think I'm forgetting what business you're in. >> Yeah, I I watch Law & Order, so I mean, I I understand everything going on. So, I'm fine with it. As long as I'm not guilty, I'm fine. So, I'm easy. Whatever. >> Um Have you ever been to his house? >> No. Never been. >> Never been out to his house? >> No, sir. >> Did you know where he lived? >> I knew he lived over there in Beulah. >> Did he tell you? >> Yeah. But on the on the uh news they said it was on Mobile Highway. >> Right. >> So, they got it wrong or maybe they do that on purpose. >> They put the the street's wrong. >> Why would you think it'd be wrong? >> Cuz it's in Beulah not Mobile Highway. >> Mhm? >> Beulah's Nine Mile Road. It's not Mobile Highway. >> Unlike the others, he's trying a completely different strategy. Less talking, more distancing himself. The problem is detectives already know far more than he realizes. Before we continue, just know there's a lineup of original true crime themed gear over at strangerlabel.com. It's all made with a distinct look that fits the tone of the cases we dive into. You can see everything right now at strangerlabel.com. Now, back to the case. >> You've never been at Bud's. >> Excuse me. >> You've never been out to the building. >> No. >> Never? >> Never. >> Okay. Thursday which would be the night of last week. You know when this all happened? Seen the papers? >> Yeah. >> Happened Thursday. >> Mhm. >> Okay. Thursday, what were you doing? >> Just running around taking care of errands. Um talked to my dad about the estate. Uh went by a buddy's house. Then went home. >> What do you mean talking about the estate? >> My grandmother just passed away. >> Oh. >> So, I went over there to talk to him about that. In fact in fact, I know that it was Thursday because that was the day that he got all pissed off at me, so. >> Your dad did? >> Mhm. >> Why? >> Because he gets to bed at like 6:00 and I got there a little bit later than what he wanted me to get there, so. >> What time did you get there? >> 6:00 45, 6:30, something like that. >> And he was mad about that? >> Yeah. >> What did you drive over there to your dad's? >> Excuse me? >> What did you drive when you got there? What were you driving? >> My truck. >> Truck you're driving now? >> Mhm. >> That's an Expedition? >> Mhm. >> So, you got to your dad's around 6:00 what? >> 6:45. >> What did you do after that? >> Uh picked out a bird. Chatted with him for a while, talked about his day. He's really sketchy. I mean, when you talk to him, you'll understand. He's got some serious, serious issues, so don't don't take anything he says to, you know, "Oh my god, this guy's a suspect." Cuz he's just you know, the guy's got brain damage, you know that. I mean, I don't know if y'all know that, you will know that, but he's got brain damage and he um so paranoid and believes that my aunt's trying to get him in trouble and all kinds of things and take all the family money that isn't really there and stuff like that. So, we had to go I had to go calm him down, show him all the stuff, all the paperwork, and that's what we did. >> How long did you stay there? >> I don't know, about probably about 30 minutes, 45 minutes, something like that. >> Stayed about 30 or 40 minutes? >> Mhm. >> And that was kind of tough, but it's important stuff we're going to have to know. To be able to And this is to help you, too, to be able And all of this is to help you to >> give my, you know, time where I was I know that. I know he's sketchy. >> Exactly. >> I'm fine with everything. I mean, just long as no one's saying that he did any I don't believe that he would First of all, he didn't do that. I know my dad he's not capable of that. For that matter, I'm not capable of what happened there. I'm not capable of that. Don't I mean I know y'all got to solve a case and you got to get it closed but find the guys that You know what I mean? >> Yeah, that's what we're trying to do. And if we can eliminate you >> Yeah, eliminate me as a suspect. Whatever you got to do. >> you anymore. >> Right. Um Give me a second cuz I'm trying to recall that day. I remember I went over to Greg's. I don't know if I stopped. In fact, I think I had an iced tea from my dad's. In fact, I did have a sweet tea. I sure did. So, I wouldn't have stopped. >> You didn't need gas or nothing like that? >> I don't think I stopped. I would remember because I remember having iced tea. I always liked their tea. >> Your mom's Yeah, I always loved my mom's dad's tea. So, you went home and got >> My wife didn't know how to make it. She's from Maryland. Yes, I went home and in fact, you can um probably go Well, if you check AT&T, I I know that y'all can see if I made any phone calls. You can um go to my Facebook page. I was probably on the internet at that that that time when I got home. I probably went and checked my email right away or something. >> And where are you living? >> My Facebook. In Gulf Breeze. >> What's your Facebook page? >> Um >> I didn't know you had a Facebook. >> Yes, sir. Leonard >> Cuz I will check that. >> Patrick, yeah. Check that out. >> What is it? Leonard Patrick? >> I believe it's Leonard Patrick Gonzales or L Pat No, L Patrick Gonzales. >> L Patrick? >> Yes, sir. >> It's almost funny watching him do this. He's trying his absolute hardest to look like the least responsible person in the room while detectives believe he's actually the most responsible. >> We got We're going to find out. >> Let me say say that I am you know >> Yes, sir. >> You might not be in a position >> [clears throat] >> to to feel this way, okay? You're a suspect in this right now. That's what we're sitting here trying to tell you from the get-go. We're trying to get >> I didn't know that. >> Then why do you think you're here? Why do you think I was asking you where you were at? >> I thought you were asking everybody that has something >> Everybody's a suspect right now. >> Everybody? >> Everybody's a suspect. >> Okay, well, that's fine. >> But you you're not in that position to sit up here and tell us you're not going to tell us this. You need to let us be the judge of what we need to know. We're trying to help you out in this situation. I And I wouldn't worry about what's going to happen down the road as far as testifying. >> six kids. That's what I'm worried about. >> that, but we're you know you're not going to be your business not going to be put out in the street with your saying. >> What I'm saying stays in this room. >> Well, it's right now it will. I mean, I but are you asking about >> It's all rumors. >> I'm not I'm not That's what Well, tell us about the rumors. That's all we're asking. What do they call you, Pat? >> Mhm. >> All we're asking of you, Pat. We're not asking you to make [ __ ] up. >> And what you I'm And again, you might not think it's Like you said, it's rumors and stuff. Might be something that we need to know and that we don't know. Cuz you know how the You know how the >> all this, I'd be very very >> how the street works. Sometimes the Y'all know more than we do. Most of the time, matter of fact. See, you could be sitting here real confirming what we already know or what or you might have the that one piece of that puzzle that that we don't have. But you don't need to sit there and and hold it back from us right now cuz you're still in the mix of everything. You You see what I'm saying? You see what I'm trying to say? Everybody's still in the mix. >> I'm not worried about me cuz I'm I haven't done anything. >> But >> I just don't want these other guys coming after my >> know what everybody else is saying about you though, either. >> I'm not worried about anybody saying anything about >> well, I'm just saying just just just be you know, be straight straight up with us. You think it's rumor? Tell us the rumor and let us be the judge of that. That's all that's all I'm asking. You understand? Well, I you know Like I said, you don't know the evidence we got and and I believe we've got the right man here. But >> But you you believe my van's the right van? The van that was Sir? You believe my van was that? >> I think so, yeah. >> Okay. I think I need an attorney then. In fact, I do need an attorney if we're doing that. >> Nobody's accusing you of doing it. >> told me that my van >> I didn't tell you nothing. I said that's my opinion. >> That means a lot. You're the chief investigator. >> I'm not a chief investigator. >> You're an investigator with the gold badge. I've watched the show. >> And the show the show is going to get you in trouble. >> Well, tell them to Watch the show then you know it's TV. Yeah, but >> I like all the girls in it. >> Watch the show. >> Hey, nobody's accusing trying to pin anything on you. I'm just telling you where where where the information we're getting and what my opinion was. >> Well >> And then that's why we That's why we asked you to come down here so we can >> That's why I gave you the information I've given you. So >> And I appreciate that thing you was giving me. I do. I really honestly do. >> Now, I wish I hadn't have said the thing about the van man and all that, but you'll >> Hey. >> You probably already got that. So >> We've got some, yeah. >> I figured you did, so >> Hang loose, man. >> Yes, sir. >> Eventually, he stops talking altogether and asks for a lawyer. But by then, detectives don't need a confession anymore. One by one, every other major suspect has been identified and taken into custody, leaving him with nowhere left to run. Detectives had already arrested Leonard Patrick Gonzales Sr., Wayne Coldiron, Donny Ray Stallworth, Gary Lamont Sumner Jr., Frederick Lee Thornton Jr., and Raheem Florence, along with the remaining members of the conspiracy. One by one, the group that believed they had committed the perfect home invasion was dismantled. The alleged mastermind, Leonard Patrick Gonzales Jr., was convicted of murdering Bird and Melanie Billings and sentenced to death. His accomplices received sentences ranging from 20 years to multiple life terms, while Pamela Long Wiggins, who helped cover up the crime, was convicted as an accessory after the fact. That's the end of today's video. If you liked what you watched and want to support the channel, hit the like button and check out my Patreon link in the description. Thanks again for watching, and I'll see you next time.