This is Steven McDow, best known for murdering his wife, Crystal McDow, by strangling her and hiding her body in the woods. Shortly before the murder, McDow's violent nature began to surface. In this video, he's being interrogated about threats he made to his attorney and the judge presiding over his custody case. I got one. Yeah, those. Let me take those. Thank you. This is just for safety. You want more water? I think I'm okay. Thank you. Okay. Are you hungry? All right. No, I'm okay. Thank you. Can you tell your phone cuz you can't have any phones in this room. Turn it off. Okay. You taking my Yeah, I just want to hold on to it. We can't have it in this room. Did you shut it off? Yeah. Why are you taking it out of the room? Because we can't have any No, we don't have anything in this room. I mean, unless you're just All right. So, I'm Detective Ruby. This is Detective Solivan. I'm just going to start with um your basics right now. Can you spell your first name? S T E V E N. Do you have a middle initial or J? J. Um, last name M C D O W E L L. Uh, your date of birth? 71078. 710 78. And your current address was uh 10566 10566. Is that 10546? 10546546. Uh current cell phone number or And you live at that location by yourself or Okay. All right. Before we get started, I'm just going to read you right. You probably seen this before. Whenever there's any allegations against anybody or anything else, I'm going to read you your rights. I'm going to ask you a question. The question is, do you understand that? I need a verbal yes or no response. Okay. Um, you have the right to remain silent. Do you understand that? Yes. Okay. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. Do you understand that? Yes. You have the right to talk to a lawyer and have a present with you while you're being questioned. Do you understand that? Yes. Okay. If you cannot afford to hire a lawyer, one will be appointed to represent you before any questioning if you wish to hire one. Do you understand that? Yes. Okay. If you decide to answer my questions now, you have the right to stop answering them at any time. Do you understand that? Yes. Now that I explained to your rights, would you like to answer my questions? Um, can you tell me first before I answer that what specifically I'm here for? I've Before I can even talk to you, I got to get through this first. So, I will explain everything once you understand that you you agree to something. So, I'm just going to read this one more time. Now that I explained to your rights, would you like to answer my questions? Um, conditionally, yes. I need yes or no. Okay. Okay. I can stop anytime. So, yes, exactly. So, is that a yes? I'm not. That's a yes. Okay, good. So, I'll let you read it to you. You answer yes to everything. I just need you to initial your response. I'm sorry. It says, "My rights are stated above have been read and explained to me by put for detective abbreviation and Ruiz. R UI Z." That's my last name. And then you're just going to sign your name here. Date and time. Today is 9. Yeah. September 9. Yeah. 99. That's 10:19 p.m. Oh, no. You up here. Sorry. Oh, sorry. 10:19. All right. Can I get you water? You sure you want water or anything? I mean, we don't have anything else, but No, I'm good. Water. Just actually want to. I just need a couple more myself. When did you move to Milwaukee? October last year. I've been since October. Where were you before then? Dubert and Pikipsy for a couple months. Oh, okay. Yeah. Well, it's nice. It's a good area. Yeah. I honestly didn't want to go to Westchester, but it's expensive Westchester. The X went here where our kids go. Yeah. And then she You were in Newberg with her and then the Gypsy. Yeah. She moved to Westchester and then that she did. Uh, are you from originally from Denver? Um, originally from like the Beacon and I've been around a little bit. Okay. Yeah. But you work right down the road, right? Yeah. I tried to get closer to my kids. Like I tried to move to the same school district, but I had little time and little money. So Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. How long you been at Rockies? Good compromise. Uh, on and off 20 years. Oh, you've been there that long. Mhm. Wow. Okay. Yeah. So, that's good. Yeah. I mean, it's close at least to where you live, you know. Like I said, we'll, you know, we're going to discuss everything. If you have any questions, we'll go over everything. Okay. What am I? Sorry. We want to talk to you about everything. I just don't you know what if anything I've done in life as a crime it would just be words you know I just don't want I don't like this criminal treatment for words you know well we'll get we'll get into everything okay why why we're here huh I'm sorry we were just talking about you know where he was from originally what brought him down to Westchester but I didn't realize he was on and off the rumpies for 20 years Oh really? But then I said, you know, we're going to discuss everything. Um, you know, obviously he's he had mentioned to me earlier that, you know, he's it's nerve-wracking, whatever, and words. He just mentioned something about words and that, you know, being criminal or whatever. We'll get we're going to go through everything with you. All right. We at the bottom, I don't want to be treated like people or deserve to be. I understand that. I'm going to treat you how you treat me. I'm going to treat you like a German. I think we crime. I just have the problem that you're trying to pin on me. I know how our interrogations go. I know it was like you want to you want to make me comfortable and say things. I know you want me to admit to something. If you want if you want to say what you're after, then you can tell. Just listen. All we want is the truth from you and we're going to discuss why you're here and what cuz you know what what you hear. Let me explain this cuz you said certain things like we're not trying to pin anything out of you. Okay. First of all, second of all, things get brought to the police department's attention. People file reports, okay? And just because somebody files a report doesn't necessarily mean we go out there and take somebody off, hold to jail, and say goodbye for the rest of their life. No, but this is up to investigation interrogation level. So, okay, but and here's the thing. Trying to look for Well, yeah, there was an allegation made. No, there's an allegation made and since you're the subject allegation, so one, that's why you look how I was apprehended and it seems like I'm being criminalized. Here, here's the thing. Yes. when it's well what was reported to the police to us it was a crime I don't know you sir okay do you know me no I'm going to be honest thing listen I don't know who you are so we have to take certain precautions and when I say we we in general runs the police department so you could be the nicest person in the world you could be a criminal I don't know anything about I don't know street but I want to know is the goal to put him in arrest tonight listen there is no goal the goal is to talk to a chance to story and what was alleged and so we could get the facts. That's what we do. We're detectives. We're not police officers out in the street in uniform. They just put handcuffs on people and that's it. Our job is to determine the facts of the case and find out the truth. Rather than being confused as anyone would be when being brought in for questioning, McDow is already combative and sure that he is going to be arrested for something. For the detectives, this is a possible sign of guilt. So listen to be honest there's an allegation locked up my freedom taken before and I've never really done anything. So you said you never been I'm not going to argue about my indignation here. Sorry. You say you never been arrested before? I've been I think when I was 18 I got cuffed and got a ticket for marijuana. Okay, that's about it. You were never like fingerprinted or anything? Uh nope. I never been fingerprinted as a kid, but as far as being arrested. Okay. Um, so I guess from the courts, I guess you're having some issues with your your wife and you're in the courts and family court and stuff. Yeah. Okay. Um, can you talk about that? What's going on with that? What can you specifically say? What got you to this point or got us to this point? You were made that you made some threats to certain people or against certain people. That's right. Christina Hall. Christina Hall. Or was it um a a supervised exchange woman named um not Camille Camille? Carmen. Carmen. Carmen. Yes. It was her. Uh she was one of the person's name. Miss that. Well, Miss Hall who miss your Miss Hall's my attorney. We attorney disagreement. I mean, I'm not I can tell you details about what I'm going through with my custody case if you want, but would be relevant. What's going I want to hear your side of story cuz yes, it may be relevant. Well, okay. If it's about her, you know, you can ask your questions. I have nothing to hide, nor do I think I even committed a crime. And if I did, it was definitely like an error and and an apology to Okay, but that's what we're here to find out. Okay. Like I said, this is just an opportunity also to hear the facts from your point of view the story. So, what's going on with your custody? Let's go with that. Where are you involved with that? Let's start there. Where is it standing right now? Yes. Right now we are um trying to get into trial. She put a full custody petition uh last year. She moved out went to some other guy and I went all the way west in Newberg and then I thought we were going to do a joint custody thing, something that we talked about cuz we were broken up for a little while and u she put a full custody petition and she put order of protection on me for a text. Okay. for a text I guess. Yeah. McDow had made threats to murder his ex-wife and children and then kill himself. Mhm. What was in the text? Cuz we don't know about the It was just um Well, she said harassing. It was, you know, but it was like a breakup. So, just can I just If that makes sense. We understand. Yes, we understand. And it was a break of a family too. Yes. Okay. And you know, and um in uh in she did things to uh um like to get her job or lie on paperwork and stuff cuz she's a correction officer. You know, I told her, "If you're going to go do this kind of stuff to me, you know, don't because you know, you're a goddamn, you know, you commit fraud here, there, you know, you're I you go, you're going to take my fatherhood. I'll do that. So those said, you know, those were considered false allegations. She got the order of protection. Okay. Against herself. Against me. Okay. It was no texting. No, you know, don't show up. That kind of or whatever it was. It was don't no text. Don't harass threat. Gotcha. Um I know recently I'm told she got an oral protection against you for the children. Yeah. What is that about? That's that's what I'd like to know because All right. So, the order of protection for the children that was put on in June. Um, we went a few months where I couldn't talk to the kids. And these are all because, you know, of course I'm going to paint myself as the the hero here, but listen listen story. I would text I would well at one point I think around uh December the text she you know she if I did it she would go to a lawyer and then the judge would do stuff and this time it was but we're going to put super bias exchanges you know so that meant drop offs you know not visits [Music] um so the place I did that I only had one day um all year like it was like a 5 hour window I was getting my kids this place couldn't even accommodate like an hour of that um my lawyer was technically able to change that and have like a you know a mobile exchange um he ignored me for months and that never happened so I went months without talking finally we were talking again and the judge said well you have to do visits and we started a visit for about 3 weeks. We set up a new place to do the exchange. It was uh Greenberg Police Department. That was going well. Okay. Um she said, "You have to talk to each other, you know." She said, "You have to talk about this kind of stuff. You can't there can't be a no talking about the kids." So, for about two or three weeks, there was just that normal stuff, you know. Mhm. It was only like a one day. And she told me a few other things in their schedule, you know, very civil and matter of fact stuff. Okay. What changed? So, I was only seeing them Fridays and um oh, by the way, before the school year started, I was seeing them Tuesday Tuesday Tuesdays overnights into Wednesdays and then bring them back Wednesday nights and that stopped when the school year started cuz I couldn't move close enough. It was too complicated. Yeah. That's why we were down to Fridays. Um an attorney, he put in an order that, you know, basically because it's three kids and how complicated it is and we're still going to trial. trying to get to trial or determined we're going to trial. It's an open arrangement and we did that for a while. So after like the three visits and they were set up and exchanges at the Greenberg police, I said, "Hey, listen before the school year starts, you know, I'd like to see I think I said John or Catherine or you know at least one at a time just for overnights on Tuesdays." And uh you know, she told me no. I was like, "Well," and then she said, "You know, that's something for the courts to decide or something." And I was like, "Well, like, well, I don't know exactly how it went, but I argued with her, you know." I was like, "No, you can't just say that, you know, like there's an open arrangement, you know, like why why would you even want to be that way, you know, because um even her admission, I'm a good father, you know, everyone there's nothing against me as a father, even from her mouth, you know. Um, and that turned into an argument which turned into another call back to court and that's when they put the supervised uh visits on me. Okay. And I tried to argue against that and even my lawyer said, "Look, you know, and there's also this thing where they were changing the child's attorney from this guy to this new guy." So, there's this huge mix up. There was like a 2, three week. We called in like we're we're not ready for you yet. You know, taking all two weeks off, come back. She even said, you know, like there's nothing on him as a father. You know, the kids, a lot of women want to be with him. He loves the kids. They want to be with him. This is between him and the mom. And and then just said, "Well, okay, we got to do a factf finding here." And she tried to schedule it for like like this week basically. And I think her lawyer said she can't do it or something or the scheduling thing. So they postponed all the way to the end of October 28th. You found that out when? I found that out at um the last court date. What was that? Approximately in August. Yeah. A few weeks ago. Yeah. So when I said you have to talk to this lady, set up your intake for her. And was that the Carmen? Carmen. Okay. and she's the person for the supervised visits. I tried calling her. I was like, "Hey," you know, and nothing disrespectful because obviously I want to be on this woman's good side. I wasn't really worried about her cuz she's going to watch me with my kids, you know, like I wasn't expecting much uh in the way of worrying about her, you know? Okay. Well, I did text her. I think I texted her the first time or I emailed her. Well, no, I voice emailed her when I tried to call her the first time and I had said um yeah, this is me being, you know, forced to use your program and I need to set up an intake or something like that. And um so maybe she got a bad first impression of me from that, you know, and it wasn't crash or loud or rude. It was just my way of putting it. We finally talked. Um, we started talking and she's telling me how it's going and you know this is about my kids you know. Of course. So details whatever it gets down like so basically what you're telling me is that depending on the voluntary participation of Louisa you know when she wants to also do her intake you know this will be so it's more it's another 3 weeks almost before I might see my kids you know it's like yeah well that's just the way things go you know so and I said you know can like see you today. She's like, "No, it's like a see you Wednesday." I was like, "Okay, what time Wednesday can I come in?" Like, "Well, you come in, whatever. You need these requirements. You need this, that, and a $1,500 retainer." And I said, "What? What do you mean a $1,500 retainer?" She said, "You have to pay me $1,500." And now I'm I work, but I'm broke. Um, these attorneys not asked for, they were assigned. Um they did they did the court evaluation for the custody that wasn't built to anyone. The first exchange which was tried to do with it was done with a whatever social worker that was built by the state. So this was a surprise to me. I I don't you know I said are you kidding me? I said I was like you know like you're charging me $1,500 to see my kids you know. She started saying something and uh I'm pretty sure she hung up on me or I might have said Fu or something, hung up on her. Two minutes later, she calls me back and says, "Yeah." And I actually answered the phones at work. She called my work job. Okay. And I was actually thinking because we got into an email argument after this and I wanted to uh almost get this for the court because of what she said in the emails. And she called picked up the phone. She said, "Yeah, Stephen. Yeah, I'm just calling back. I just want you to know you're a [ __ ] [ __ ] And she bl Okay. And then she emailed me something like just want you to know you're a you're an [ __ ] or something and you know this is going in my report and uh now I see why you need supervised visits now. And I said, "Uh, I may be an [ __ ] but at least I don't, you know, tell fathers to give you $1,500 to see their kids, you know." I said, you know, I said, "There's a special place in hell for you. I hope you get there soon or something like that." And she said, "Don't text me again or I'm going to call the cops." And I said, "Uh, which one's the feelings police?" You know, I was like, "You're you're you're harassing me. You're threatening me." And I told her, as a matter of fact, I can call the cops. I have that phone number. And if you want to make a report to the judge about me, not based on me around my kids, based on my outrage at what you just said to me, um, I'll take that phone call, you know, I'll let you report bite you in your ass, you know. And there might have been one more. Was there No, there was no threats. And as far as I know, that's kind of how it ended. Why do you say there was no threats? Well, I didn't threaten her. Okay. Do you have threats that she's saying I point you threaten you? Threats. I did not threaten that woman. I 100% did not threaten that woman. Did you threaten anybody else to that woman? What do you mean? Did you mention anybody else in your conversations with Carmen about hurting anybody or going after anybody? Cuz that's part of the allegation too. Talk about just being upset with anybody else. Like what what did she say that I said? Well, I'm asking you, is there anything that you said to her that would have her come forward to report this? Like, she told me she was going to tell her out of anger like you're frustrated. I told her I hope you go to hell. No, but that's not, you know, cuz that's like, I hope you go to hell. You know what I mean? I'm angry. I'm not foolish enough to threaten people. Well, here's the thing. Listen, we understand and that's why we we're taking the time to talk to you, okay? That your father, you're going through a custody battle. you separated from your wife. Those are things that are going to make people upset, emotional. So, we can understand if there's certain things that are said or, you know, even if you behave a certain way. I I could see right now you're visibly upset by this whole thing also too. Well, I mean, understandably, you know, that way for two years together people go through and I go through horrible things to myself. So, well, and that's part of the reason why we're involved to make sure, you know, to see, you know, I mean, they did not threaten anyone, especially her in that email. Okay. And you can show me the words that you say. Let's talk about the email cuz I know. How about the phone call? Which phone call? Did you say anything uh about her? Maybe by your attorney, about the people at the courthouse? Whatever. Like in anger cuz you're frustrated. Did I threaten anyone? No, absolutely not. Okay. Like, did I threaten harm to anyone? Did I threaten to do anything to anybody? No. No. Okay. And not only do I know better, I don't want to hurt or harm anyone. Well, you mentioned your returning to her. Probably. What was that? How how was that one? What? Give us context about that. But why would you mentioned you're attorney to this woman to Carmen? Uh, so I'm trying to think because this wasn't this was kind of like a nuts and bolts conversation before it turned bad. So, okay. I think I mentioned she might have asked me about it. I I really don't know like as far Were you frustrated with your attorney? Yeah. Okay. Did you let her know that in any way? I might have. Especially since she kept putting off the dates like, "Oh, I'll see you in another 3 weeks." So, we're not getting along and where she's actually, you know, that kind of stuff. Like I don't think she's helping me or whatever. I mean you call her like a derogatory name and I don't care. I mean that's not a threat like but like something I might have said I don't know something along the lines of derogatory but nothing like well like what? Give me an example. You could say it like I said I might have if that's what she's saying. Did you call her a fat [ __ ] I might have. You might have. Did you call her the c word? Did you say she was a [ __ ] I don't I may have yelled at at the end, but I don't I doubt that. Okay. I doubt that I got that far. This conversation was last Friday, correct? Or Okay. I was at work. Yeah. So, it wasn't that long ago. It was on my work phone, actually. Yeah. Okay. Right. So, it's possible. You just don't remember. And honestly, I felt like the way she responded like I thought it was like, you know, she like she said when I was discussing like you see how I talk fast and I'm kind of worked up. Yeah. Sure. Not only that, but I'm I was like, you know, I for better or worse, I just have this, you know, righteous indignation about what I'm going through with my kids and the the courts, the lawyers, the the ex it triggers me. I understand. It's my mouth, you know, it's all my words. It's my feelings, my thoughts. It's not my actions. You know, all all I've been trying to do for 2 years is not always, you know, set up a life with my kids 50/50 or best we can do, you know? Yeah. Or at least make an agreement, see if we can make it work. And that's all I've been doing. And like I've just gone through hell trying to do that. I can see that. Listen, we're all human beings, okay? We treat you respectfully because you obviously have been going through hell. Nobody is denying that. I think I threatened. Okay. I I did not threaten anybody. Okay. So, they may have been threatened by me, but I did not threaten anybody. Okay. What does that mean? I don't know. People are sensitive these days. I noticed that the way the way I talk and and speak to people, people get offended quick and especially like official capacity people there. Some of them don't. Maybe you vent or your frustrations come out. You like sometimes say things that you say [ __ ] but you know what? you're angry cuz you're frustrated and it's been 2 years of hell and being level out of control with this. Well, everybody's a little different. That's why I mean it's a good point, too. So maybe, you know, sometimes if your anger does get the better of you, you say certain things. Sometimes we say things we don't mean or we're not going to do certain things, but they come out because you know what? I'm frustrated. I've been going through hell. I want to see my kids and now you're telling me $1,500. And it's like it's just adding to the stress like kick their ass. Exactly. But you don't necessarily mean you don't want to go to jail for telling that because you don't want to pick us up. Exactly. And that's but that's why we're here and that's why we want we're taking the time to talk to you because they she made they recorded there some threats made. Okay. So it's we have to also determine that okay even certain threats that are said sometimes that could be a crime in itself too. But we're more concerned is do you really mean them? Um I would even know what they were. Well, here's the thing. You're saying, and this is the problem where I'm having right now at this point because I I don't want to be here all night and, you know, wasting more of your time because I know, you know, you got a lot going on. I'm not going to add anything. So, but please, here's the thing is she's reporting certain things and what you told us so far kind of lines up with what she said. Well, tell me what she said. I You don't No. Well, I'm not playing the long game here with you. That's why I'm saying I want you to be honest with us because here's the thing I'm having a problem with is if you can't be honest with a simple thing and and admit to say, you know what? Hey, I'm pissed. which I completely understand. I would probably be pissed in your situation too because I am whenever listen we work, you know, for government. We know how sometimes certain things could be, especially with the court system. You know, it's a pain in the ass. It's stressful and it's a [ __ ] Excuse my French, okay? But it's the system and we have to deal with it. And even somebody in your position, you can be upset about it. You may not like it, but especially if you you're trying to see your kids and get your kids back, you got to deal with it. Okay. I do. That's how I've been dealing with it. Yeah. When somebody reports to me that this guy was sitting there cursing up a storm, making all types of statements and even threats, I could say as a human being, you know what? I can see why. I can understand that. Yeah. But you're sitting here now in front of us. You're not saying you made any threats or nothing. So, you know, that leads me to also still be concerned that, okay, never mind that he just made a threat. Did now he probably meant that and this is something that he might go through with these threats because he can't sit here and tell us the truth because I make a threat. I know, but I'm telling you my position at this point. Why do you think I mean a threat though? You see this? I mean a threat. This is what you're saying. You're looking at something that's a threat. No, I'm telling you what what was reported to us. So these are people bringing you believing her over my story cuz you're saying I mean I'm I'm telling because let me let me explain. Okay. She reports something to us and you understand these are people that deal with in the court system and deal with people all shapes and sizes and different backgrounds and are used to things like this. I'm I you know when I say things like I I'm telling you I pushed her buttons personally. She called me back and said you're a [ __ ] [ __ ] She went out of her way to call me back at my job, say I'm a [ __ ] [ __ ] and I'll hang up the phone, which I would be pissed about. And then she started emailing me saying things. Mhm. So if anything, she's probably making something up to really hang it to me because I said, "What are you going to do? Call the feelings, please. You think I'd be that arrogant if I made a threat?" I know I was I insulted her. I personally offended her. And I was personally offended. She asked me for $1,500 to see my kids. I'm a broke man. I just paid literally every dime I had to the landlord you were talking to about an hour ago or whatever. Hour. How did you offend her? Um I call her like a [ __ ] kidnapper, that kind of stuff, you know. Okay. And I said, you know, at least I'm not the kind of person that tells a father, give me $1,500 to see your kids. And because mind you, this was in response to her calling me a [ __ ] [ __ ] on the phone. Granted, I don't get that. She listen, I'll be honest with you, she even amended that. She told us that she called you an [ __ ] So, she did put that in her report also. And then she said this is she said in the email, "These are threats and harassment. Stop. Don't email me or call me." Okay? Because Well, she emailed me first. Why would she say that? That's that's what I'm saying. She emailed me first and said you asked by the courts and you get paid after the phone call. She emailed me. She said basically um um this is going in the report. Mhm. Oh, wait. I might have emailed her first. Okay. Because she called me a [ __ ] [ __ ] and from a private number. And honestly, the way she did it, I was like, "What kind of piece of [ __ ] is, you know?" Like, okay. Mhm. First off, when I was told, I did not expect to be told, you know, $1,500. Of course, we weren't going too well anyway because not only cuz I, you know, cuz before that, she's telling me, well, [ __ ] I might have my next court hearing before I can even see my kids through this program, you know. And then she told me that, you know, but so then she always said, don't, you know, don't be so sharp with me, she said before that even broke down, you know. Okay. because of the way I was talking. How were you talking? You know, I was just like I was like, "So, what are you saying?" You know, like, "Oh, so I have to wait two weeks now." Like that kind of talk, you know, like so being like a little snigh and a little Yeah. Like I if you were listening, like I had this indignation towards this, you know? Okay. Because the way the mother is running it, it's just terrible, you know? She's keeping me from my kids almost like maliciously and the court's kind of just it's a system and they're just kind of backing her up through it and I haven't had a chance to get a word in or anything, you know. Well, let me ask you a question and I understand it's a system too and we all deal with it in one way or another. Yeah. But me personally, if I have to deal with that system and it affects whether I get to see my kids or not, I'm going to be on my best behavior. Well, I when I called her, it was a schedule. It was not an argument. It was a little upsetting for me that she said and like I said, she said, "Don't be so sharp." It wasn't like I was being, you know, that's what I'm saying. It kind of looks like maybe you just maybe you're having a bad day and then maybe letting your emotions get the best of you. And that's how it started. Well, like I said, if I'm calling this lady who's going to help me see my kids Yeah. I said I'm coming, you know. Well, she was not helping me see my kids in hand. She's assigned. She's just I have to be supervised to see my kids. Yes. Which not even is, you know, justified beyond me texting the mother. Granted, but that's what the court ordered, right? So, I'm doing that. She's not helping me see my kids. She's just we we were lined up by the courts, you know, and like and you know, even my attorney good advice and my my plan was to follow it, you know. um like just be pleasant with this lady because she's going to help you in your case. Just you know just But you weren't that way. Well, I tried to be. As a matter of fact, even before that, we put a little phone tag and I said yeah. And she delayed calling me one day and I thought, you know, days matter. This is before I knew there was going to be 3 week delays and stuff. So Mhm. I said, "Hey, uh, you know, maybe you didn't hear my voicemail, but yeah, you know, I gave you the number from my job." Mhm. You know, and just try and call that number, you know, like cuz I don't have uh service in the building on my phone, like like a force field box my phone. So, you know, maybe she was already off the bat cuz I said, she's like, "I did not get I did not hear a number in your voicemail, you know." Mhm. And I was like, "Oh, pretty sure I, you know," like, "Nope, I read it. I listened to it. No number." So, I didn't, you know, I was like, "Okay." That didn't even didn't even matter really. But, you know, right off the bat, she's like almost argumentative, you know, almost like she she thought my frustration at the system was somehow being translated to her. McDow's argumentative and threatening behavior was typical of his interactions with others, including Crystal. This is what ultimately led to the deterioration of their marriage. When you join my Patreon, you'll get instant access to hundreds of posts and a ton of exclusive Stranger Stories videos that are available for members only. It is also a great way to directly support me and the channel. Check out my page right now at patreon.com/strangertories plus. So she tried to check me on that and we were kind of civil and it was fine. And then then it went south. Did it go south as in? Yeah. Like exactly like I told you. She said 3 weeks and then she said what do I need? Like just get to the point. What do I need? And she says you need this. You need to bring a $1,500 retainer. I said you know what are you talking about? And she said $1,500. I was like, "I'm not paying to see my kids and blah blah blah." Like, that's [ __ ] crazy, you know? And and she was like, "Did she give you an opportunity? Did she say I'll talk to you like to calm down or anything like that? I'll call you back. I'll call you back in a few minutes." Anything like that? No, because I she I think she was saying, "You know what? Goodbye or I'm hanging up or something." And I just said, "You're a [ __ ] kidnapper or something." I hung up. I hung up, you know, and I guess the next call was her calling my job to say I'm a [ __ ] [ __ ] Yeah. Now, Miss Hall, you said that's your attorney or what? She was your attorney, right? Well, she wants to be relieved. She wants to be relieved. Well, I wanted her to be relieved because she was ignoring me. Yeah. Okay. And we had an argument before I told she told the courts that she wanted to be relieved. Do you know? Yeah. We both want I wanted her relieved and then I convinced her to want to be relieved and then the judge said no got to work on it and we were working on it and then she was like uh you know as this stuff was going on I was like can you know I was planning things out I went to the court one day I walked up to the building I said hi I had to file a violation and they look at me like you have a lawyer like yeah I have a lawyer like that's what they do and I and I said yeah Well, she told me I have to do it, you know, and it was they laughed at me. They got me all this paperwork. I, you know, I said to her, I was like, I was even in the I was in the courtroom. You know, your your your peers were laughing at me. Even they know it was your job to do to file this order, you know, this violation. And the violation was about the court order saying that I couldn't see my kids on the on the weekend. And then you know she you know she was like uh what would you call out the lunch for this whole last scenario you know and she's not your first attorney. Do you have somebody else before him? Yeah. Okay. You had several attorneys that have been part of this case. She's my third. She's your third. Okay. Were the other ones recused themselves also? The first one I told you about when I didn't see my kids and they I needed a lawyer to file. Um well, he ignored me for 3 months. Gotcha. And all I had to do was change the supervisor locate from being a location to a person, which he even offered when it was set up. It's like if it doesn't work out, we'll just have to change. And I could not talk to anyone. I couldn't call the courts and I couldn't call Louisa um at the time because oral would have been I couldn't attempt charge you know so I didn't I said hey at first started with him I said hey can you which is the way it is now right cuz you got a new order protection you can't have no contact with either of them right no I can have contact with the kids that's what the supervised visits are for but there's oral protection now wasn't it July issue one a new one yeah when when the last time she reported my text Okay. So, I don't put my kids on it for a supervised visit. They put the kids on it, too. Yeah. All right. Oh, did you mention anybody at the courthouse, any of the at other attorneys or like the judge itself to uh comment in your conversation? Not that I know of. Okay. It wasn't that long of a conversation. All right. Yeah. This is from Friday. Yeah. I mean meaning I don't like have that many details remembered about it. Did you mention anything about the judge there that preciding your uh actually do you know the judge who's setting over the case was cats? Uh yes. I might have said like she hasn't really she doesn't really know the situation or she hasn't really talking to me yet or I don't know. I don't even know where the conversation went with her yet. So you're you're sleing it out slowly. Oh no. You're handing me as you do this. Well, I don't want you to tell me. I'm not I'm telling you. That's why I just actually That's my question. So, you're I I feel like you're saying that these things were discussed and I'm saying I don't it wasn't that you know it wasn't it was so mundane basically. Okay. Well, discussed what what what came up about Judge Katz about the Miss Cats? Nothing that I really specifically remember. I mean, if the judge came up Mhm. It would have been about I don't know. Well, you just said maybe I don't know. You want me to say no? Cuz I want you to tell me what you the party in that conversation. So I talked to one person already. You the party. So that's why you have to remind me. Okay. That's why that's what I'm reminding. I'm reminded there was a part in your conversation that Judge Cash was brought up. So you need to tell me what came up in that part of the conversation. I don't honestly remember. Okay, that's fine. You don't remember. You don't remember. But she came up at one point. You're saying so? I'm asking. She's saying I'm asking. So, most likely then is the case. If you are saying that, like I said, I don't remember. So, well, that's what she told me. So, okay. So, she did or you I'm not hiding anything. I'm telling you the truth. Well, you're not telling me nothing. So, I want you My question is Judge Cats came up in your conversation with Carmen. Can you give me what? what how it came up or how she came up with the context of that part of the conversation. I can't I don't remember. You don't remember? Okay, fine. All right. In other words, so this is brought forward to our attention, right? And we're following up. We're not we're not like making this up as we go along. This is be this is conversations that somebody is putting pen to paper and saying what you said, okay? and people that you brought up, namely a judge and other attorneys and stuff and threats that were made. I would never threaten a [ __ ] judge. Are you How How is it that all these other people though are telling this? That's why I'm wondering this is a this is I never threatened anybody much less a [ __ ] joke. Why Why would she say that you did? Why would somebody do that? In other words, you're not in the best way because of everything through. You tell me right now what is said about me. But why would somebody No, no, no, no. Tell me what the [ __ ] you're saying is said about I want to know why would you say that about you? Especially a conversation from Friday. You would remember someone say I threatened a judge. Listen, there were there were threats made. Yes, there were I never threatened. Tell me what happened. I never threatened a judge. I don't know. Okay, this is absolutely ridiculous. Are you charging me with threatening a [ __ ] judge? Listen. No, no, no, no, no, no. Here's the thing. We're asking the questions, okay? I know exactly how I need to go. I want you to tell me what happened. It's not It's We're talking to you. Yes, we're sitting here. You're sitting there. We're talking to you. This is your opportunity to tell us your side of the story. I wasn't there in that phone. I wasn't sitting there. Okay. Nor do I even remember mentioning the judge. And if I did, it was in Carmen. Um, nope. Did not threaten anybody. Why did you say you threatened her? Don't know why she threatened. She's why she thinks I threatened her. Did you call her a [ __ ] out loud or in a text? I doubt it, but I might have said it as I was hanging up or I don't know. It's a go-to word. It's a go-to word for you. Well, it's a go-to outrage word cuz it's just you're saying the worst things splits out, you know. So, it's possible it came out. Whatever. Yeah. It's just a profanity. That's fine. Like if I maybe a play person would say jerk and I would say that you know. Okay. All right. So again, why would why would they say that you said this? I don't know why they would say I threatened anybody. That's a serious allegation. Absolutely. So why would this woman say this? I don't know. And also in terms of conversation with you, listen from Friday. You need to fill me in now because now you're accusing me of this. We are. We are. We're talking here, aren't we? Are we? No. Cuz this is a serious thing. And I would never do something like that. Okay. I would call a girl a [ __ ] I'll tell her in hell. I would never accuse me of here. Okay. We're just trying to understand, you know, like somebody made this allegation. It's very serious obviously, right? It's an allegation and it's unfounded. Well, it's being investigated. Okay. That's a part of this. This is why we're here. Okay. Okay. So, why would somebody say that? That has nothing there's nothing for them to gain to say that about you. It's not like your ex what your ex-girlfriend's saying this. She's if she would say that I did that, then that's to hurt me. Who? Why? How? What would she make? But there's no benefit for her. She's not. She's not like I could see if your ex said this back at you because well because I don't know. She didn't even mention that to me. She say she wasn't mentioned to me that I was threatening anybody. She said I was harassing her. Okay. You were harassing her. How were you harassing her? Yeah. How are you harassing? Just by calling her a [ __ ] by by texting her. Yeah. I said you're a [ __ ] kidnapper. Maybe a [ __ ] I don't remember saying that. You threaten to kill her. No. No. Nope. I didn't threaten anybody. Especially a judge. Okay. Oh, I'm asking about Carmen first. Nope. Okay. Why would she say that? If she said that, then I would press charges on her. Why would she say that? Why would she make that up? If you're saying she You didn't say that. I don't know why she said that. Maybe I hurt her feelings if if anything. So, I'm not a [ __ ] idiot. Did you threat to kill your attorney? Nope. Okay. Did you threat to kill the judge? Nope. All right. Did you speak out about the judge to her? Cuz out of frustration, I said she doesn't know. I might have said, and believe me, I have had conversations with a lot of people. And if I said anything about the judge, I probably would have said, you know, it's been like a McDonald's drive-thru in there, you know, like it's just, you know, venting the way I feel about it. Like she probably barely knows my name and that kind of stuff. Yeah. What a But would you have said anything about you know I want to kill the judge? Absolutely not. That's I would walk into a police station like this. Part of it. She also said something about you know knew how to find them. Attorneys who specialize in divorce and custody cases are used to clients becoming angry and frustrated. They've also learned to tell when threats are genuine and McDow showed every sign of becoming violent. Remember seeing something like that like oh I know how to find them. Absolutely not. You mentioned something about having a plan. Nope. No. Absolutely not. See, these are very detailed things. Yeah. That's why it's like, and again, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt. None of these things. And Well, here's my point. Exactly. Why would somebody that has nothing to benefit to you, she's got no animosity towards you? I could see if your ex none of my business then because I your ex would if anybody would be have vindictiveness towards you, it would be the person that you're in court with because I told her to burn because I told her I wanted your kids away. Maybe because I told her I wanted to burn in hell. Yeah, but that's to make up to say, oh, and he by the way, you know, this was a this is something else he said and blah blah blah. Yeah. And added all these people to all these other people. I know I don't have a plan. Rosetta had a plan. I know other people. Are attorneys afraid of you? Any of your your former attorneys? They should be one of Are they? No, I know. Why do they refuse themselves? The first none of them want to deal with you. The first one was I wanted him gone. Well, even even this last one, Hall doesn't want to deal with What do you mean you wanted him gone? What? What? Like what? He wasn't because he ignored me for 3 months and then I sent him an email cuz this is about seeing my kid. They said, "Look, you haven't answered me for 3 months." And this is before I even knew I couldn't fire him. I said, "You're fired." And after ignoring me for maybe like 2 and 1/2 months, they answered in like 10 minutes on that one. And then it went downhill from there. I said, you know, he he said, "Look, I'm working diligently." It's like no, you could have filed something 3 months ago with a phone call basically and I could have seen seen my kids and you didn't and you didn't even answer me. You even called me and said you called me back and didn't call me back like on multiple occasions. So that was I said I don't I don't want to work with you. I don't have any faith in you. I you know and the most recent attorney Miss Hall um it was the same sort of thing. She was going on vacation. She want this and then this thing came up and I said, "Will you do something?" And it just got to the point where I was like, "You suck and I don't have any faith." Did you ever threaten her? No. Like, is she saying I'm threatening her, too? I'm wondering, did you ever threaten her or make her feel like she I might have I might have She wouldn't do work and she wouldn't quit. So, I was texting her, calling her names. I said, "What's your address?" And that's literally why I said, "What do you mean like what's your address?" Just to just to to [ __ ] with her. Yeah. And that was definitely Is that a frustration? It was a frustration. It was her. And then she said, "You know what? This is too far. I'm going to go to the bar and see if I get my leg legal obligations." And I said, "Good." You know, that's exactly what I want. I don't want you representing me. I didn't want you the last time. And the judge put us back together again. Oh, you had her and then you think I'm like unreasonable, but it's like all I'm trying to do is like I don't know. I get frustrated, but I've gone through this for a year. I'm squeaky clean. I haven't hurt anyone, threatened anyone, and I'm not going to hurt anyone. I'm not going to threaten anyone. I just want to see my kids. I get walls up. I get, you know, attorneys who won't help, and I lash out verbally. Have you when you last wanted to see your kids or sometime in June, whenever it was, did you did you mention anything to your brother? Did you ever give your brother asked you for the rifle? I asked him to hold it. No, firearms. It was at his house. Okay. For cuz that's where I was shooting it. Okay. So, he has your rifles, your It was just at his house because that's just where it ended up. So, what happened uh months before this issue came up? Mhm. If we had a falling out and I asked him, you know, like, you know, I want my rifle, you know, and what happened? He ignored me. He ignored me. I ignored me. And um on the day you were supposed to go see your kids? Yeah. Well, you know what? I And I explained that to him, too. And I was like, "Motherfucker, I just went through all this and I'm looking at my text. I'm I'm going off on this lady. I'm looking at my brother. Mhm. And you know, I want I thought I had to talk to the judge about this cuz this is like going to be in the back biting here. I I'm looking at him. I'm looking at my last text that he ignored me. And I'm just like, "Oh, this [ __ ] you know, and I I said again, you know, not connecting any of the two." But he said, "What's it for?" I was like, "Just cuz it's mine and I want it." And the timing of it. And then he called Louisa or whatever and said, "I want I'm trying to get my gun." And then I heard that and then that's when she stopped the visits and stuff. Okay. So I called him and I went to a [ __ ] screaming match. I was like, "You stupid [ __ ] Had nothing to do with [ __ ] anything. I got, you know, I'm not trying to hurt anyone. I'm not I don't want to hurt anyone. I don't I just want my [ __ ] gun. I've been trying to get you for months to give it to me, you know." So it wasn't just that day. No, it's unfoldable. It's not You know Yeah. I'm not. But why that day? Because they they made it seem, you know, because I was frust, you know. I was like, I'm I'm going through that. I hang up with a lawyer. I My kids were ripped up. I'm looking at his [ __ ] name. I'm looking at him ignore me. The reason I'm not talking to him is because of all this this stuff and and the falling on my family, you know. Um, and so you decide that day I won't wake my back. No, I was following through on what I was asking him and then he was ignoring me for months, you know. And honestly, can I tell you the truth? I stopped talking to my family because um I asked my mother for money um last summer to help me get a car, get a lawyer set up. And not even money. I said, "Look, I can't get a loan because I owe um tax money." Yeah. They just won't even look at me. Will you just co, you know, I have there's no problem paying. Will you co-sign for me or or something? just help me out because I need and I also thought I needed to buy a lawyer at the time to start this case. All right. So, um she got back to me and said, you know, she didn't even like she just turned it down like I just don't think we should, you know. I was like, you didn't look into it or consider as a she give you a reason. Yeah. So, and it was very emotional and I actually kind of needed that and I didn't really have anywhere else to get it. So I went without it and then I I I stopped, you know, I went from I wish you did to the point where it's like I can't believe you didn't. And then it evolved and then I evolved with my brother to the point I wasn't talking to them. And I think honestly asking for the rifle, I didn't have any other reason or way to talk to them, you know, and I just wanted to be like it was how I was reaching out to my family again. I want them to [ __ ] argue with me or care about me or do something. Do you talk to anybody in your family right now? Any support? So you say nobody? My family? Yes. So you say you were looking for attention. That's why you asked for the rifle. I would say well months before that I was trying to communicate with my brother because he sent me a a a merry Christmas after we weren't talking and I didn't respond to it and I kind of had guilt about that. But I didn't ever want to come to him and say, "I'm sorry." Or because I, you know, I felt like you guys are just, you know, like you're you're all hugs and kisses. Like, don't you care that that, you know, she's basically betraying me this way with the kids with the custody, you know? Like, so I didn't I didn't want to need them anymore, but I still need my family. So, of course, the detectives found it odd that McDow's family seemed to side with Crystal. Families tend to stick together unless the circumstances are extreme. I would say months before that was, and it's very unfortunate now that it was a rifle issue. It could have been my [ __ ] um lawnmower. I mean, my weed whacker and leaf blower, you know. So, did you talk to your brother at all? No, because when I found out he did that, it was like, are you, you know, you got a screaming told Louis? Yeah. I was like, you know, you know, why do you know that? I get the connection. You get the connection, right? So, I mean, why does he your brother who's your family, you call him, ask him to get your rifle back in the day? You're supposed to pick up your kids to see him and he gets them to a point where he's got to call their mother and say, "Hey, listen." And warn her basically, "Hey, he's looking to get his rifle back today. was like I mean because that's exactly how it looks. You're right. And that's what I argued with. I was like, "You stupid [ __ ] I've been asking." Did you make threats to him that day too? The other brother probably, you know. Well, I'm asking. This is what this is what came up in our threats. I was saying, you know, [ __ ] your family. I don't give a [ __ ] You know, like not threats like I'm going to hurt anybody or anything. Oh, is your brother he talks to Louisa? I think he because I wouldn't tell him why I wanted it and because I was like the last time I was like give me my you know I guess he was alarmed you know. Does he still have it? He should still have it. Okay. Was that the And he said I'm going to drop it off at a police station. I was like fine. You know like I don't have any it's not about harm. You know, I I don't Well, I'm happy to hear that, but you have to understand as I get that was investigating this. I get information like that and this is all starting to line up and it doesn't look good. You know, well, it looks like I asked my brother for my gun the same day I argued with Louisa, right? All right. But it doesn't doesn't mean anything. That gun was just a symbol of something. I don't even have the clip. You know where the clip is? The clip's hidden in a in an apartment in a house that he rents. Not hidden hidden, but just in a safe spot from kids. I couldn't even load the [ __ ] thing, you know? So, it's not like I'm I just wanted and it's really the only thing I I have of value that's in my name. Honestly, I don't have anything. Everything I had is gone. I have like the futon and I took my old TV way way back in with the exception of you know cuz everything else I told him you know cuz when we moved out I moved out I left a bunch of stuff to be junked you know some of it was furniture and stuff like a bike and lawn tools and stuff and I said then back then I was like whatever's there just get rid of sell it I don't want anything to do with it so literally the only connection I had was that [ __ ] gun and that's why it was the gun issue I Let me answer this question. Yep. Do you find at times maybe sometimes it's difficult to control your emotions? Do you find trouble? Yes. I mean like every human being but not like do I do anything uncontrollable? No. I think I was asking do you feel that way sometimes you let your emotions get the better of you? No. More than anybody else. Do you feel like because of this whole this case that's going on that you just low patience and it's just gotten worse because of what you've been dealing with. Yeah. It's just stress and you know it's like it just keeps piling up. Yeah. But you're thinking I'm like devolving into something. I'm not. You know, I'm just like everything is let me see my kids. Boom. What the [ __ ] do you mean? You know, like I speak that way. I don't I don't Here's the thing, Stephen. Somebody in your position can't be speaking to people like that who deal with the courts and stuff like that when you want something from them. Yeah. No, if I want that's the thing. If I want to go dinner tonight, you know, I'm going to be, hey, listen, I'm going to write the report. I know. I know. I don't cross the line that you're trying to find, you know. Well, it kind of seems like you did. You know, I mean, you're not afraid to make any threats about anybody, but still what you're telling us lines up with what she said in your conversation. You know, calling her a [ __ ] or a fat [ __ ] or, you know, fat [ __ ] or con, stuff like that. I hope you burn in hell. That's not a conversation. That's not the way you talk to somebody who is connected to the courts where you're petitioning to get custody. Not only just get custody of, but even just trying to see your kids. Was that crime that I lost my clue? And what's a crime when you make threats? Well, I did not threaten to kill people. No, you're not going to say that cuz it's not true. That's what's been reported. That's not true. Okay. Tell me, how did it come up in the conversation? something about you know how to find people. I didn't never said that. You never said that. That's a lie. I know how to find people. Yeah. Who did I say that to? Carmen in your conversation on Friday in the phone. No. That didn't come up in any way backwards. Yeah. Referring to either her to the judge. No. Absolutely not. And what's this about a plan she mentioned? No. That you said? Absolutely not. You don't never had anything like that? Absolutely not. Okay. Anything that you could have said that she made it mistaken? What do you mean? I I'm trying to see because she said that in your threats you mentioned something like that. No. So I'm trying to say I am a threatener. So much less details of any threats in the threats you know. Okay. Where does your brother live? Um you know he moved from the last time I started talking to him. So you don't know right now. It's not in Newberg. It's a nearby. It's a townhouse. the address. When are you supposed to go back to court? August 28th. I mean, October 20th. So, when you go back, you don't even have an attorney right now. Well, she'll probably be there, you know, and honestly I wish I could smooth out. It's just like, you know, I get not angry, depressed, and then I text her. It's like, why didn't you do anything? You know, like I'll get responses like I don't do business on text, you know, like you said you were going to file a violation, you didn't why didn't you do that? No response, you know? And it's just I don't know. I feel like I can't walk away from it, but I you know I just want to walk away from her. Like you're just you're just a piece of [ __ ] You're just a [ __ ] parasite. You know, you're just you're collecting your your state money off of me. You're not going to you're going to do the bare minimum. You're basically acting like a court clerk for the judge. You're not acting like my representative. You're not even hearing me out. You know, it's like and like, you know, I'm not even being irrational. I'm saying look, they're saying this whole thing came down over that violation or like um just saying that I I wasn't allowed to see them for overnights, blah blah blah. Those stupid details, you know, it's like why couldn't why can't you point that out, you know? Why can't you do something like so? Yeah, I'm mad. I'm not dangerous. I don't threaten people and I don't hurt people. Listen, I mean, I understand the frustration. I understand you being mad. I don't understand why people would say you did something, threaten them if you didn't do that. I didn't. Cuz they have nothing to gain from that. I didn't. Then I don't know why they would say that. Me either. You know, I would like that's very serious. I would like to know, too. I like to know exactly what they're saying. I said they said you were in a coma. That's a lie. That is an absolute lie. McDow's attorney has no reason to lie. And since she is the third to refuse to work with him in such a short time, it sounds like his aggressiveness is worsening. I've never threatened to kill anyone. Even if I wanted to kill someone, I wouldn't threaten to kill them. You know, I'm not an idiot and I don't want to kill anybody. And I'm a harmless person. I always have been. I always will be. I may have run my mouth. May have scared her and I apologize. Well, did you run your mouth and threaten her? Nope. I mean, so I mean cuz then No, I probably offended her at the most. Well, these are people like for example, this woman has been working in this industry a long time. Yeah. And she's been offended. She's been offended. Let me just finish. She's been offended by a lot of people. Okay. And you know, it's not like it's her first rodeo. You know, she's been around a long time. For her to take it to the level where she felt it and relay the messages, relay. No, no. She said, "We wouldn't be here if she said you were being snide or sharp or rude or just cursing, snarky, whatever." You know, she didn't like your attitude. You know, she we wouldn't be here. She said she was going to go call the cops that I was threatening harassing her. And I said, "What? The feelings, please?" because I didn't threaten to harass her or threaten anybody. So, like I said, this woman wouldn't be she she's not the type to, you know, h you know, this is the one of the first times she's ever done this in all the her career threatening and felt it important enough to relay to other people that you had referenced in the conversation, namely a judge. So for them, for her to relay that, it's that in her head she's perceived as you have this recorded phone call. You know that you threatened her. Do you have the phone call? Record. I'm asking you. I want cuz I want to hear it, too. I want to know what you're saying. You're saying I'm saying. Well, here's the thing. Let's just say if she did record the phone call. Yeah. Maybe that's part of the reason why she hung up and called you back. What do you mean? Well, to record it. To record what? Your conversation with her. She only called back to call me a [ __ ] [ __ ] and then she hung up. Okay, this is when I Well, she called me. Let me give you something. Let me give you something. This woman did give you an opportunity. Do you recognize this? That to calm down that she was going to call you back or that you need to calm down to cool out, right? She did not say that. Okay. Well, that's the thing. You you called her, right? First, I think on a Tuesday, right? Left a message, right? You to get in touch with her. probably. Okay. Even in that you left kind of a uh a rude message for her. You were obviously her. It was really agitated. Okay. So, you were agitated. You were upset definitely about the situation. That is not a crime. It was not. It was not. Here's the thing. She was she responded to it in Can I finish? If you want to go ahead. So, you called her on a Tuesday, let's just say, and you were obviously uh visibly agitated or upset, whether it was with her or the situation, whatever it be, but you left a message for her. And then I guess it was a couple of days before she got in touch with you. Mhm. So, in those couple days, in our point, that's some time to calm down. And like I said, we're human beings. We know the whole situation is difficult. Obviously, not calming up because you still got into it on Friday. Yeah. You want then can I tell you then what happened? Yes. I said to her, rant something like, um, yeah, I'm forced to be with you. You know, that kind of stuff. I like to schedule it. She voice me back said she missed me and um I don't know. She said, I don't know, maybe you're saying something about you don't want to see your kids or something, you know, like I don't know why you'd say that. So that was a misunderstanding from her part in her response. So when I called her back, it was another voicemail. I think that's when I left my work number. And I said, "And just to clarify, I of course want to see my kids." I was talking about um the situation with uh you know, the courts and being forced to be, you know, supervised with my own kids or something like that. Nothing to do with my desire to see my kids. And then that was a hang up. And then the next call was her saying, or maybe an email. I don't know if it was a voicemail or an email. She's saying, "No, I I tried to reach you. Call me back at half hour." And I said, "Maybe you didn't know this, but I left a work number. I can't, you know." And then when she finally did call me, she said, "I did not hear that voicemail where you left a number." I said, "Are you pretty sure?" She said, "Yeah." And I said, "Well, I did leave it." She said, "Nope, it's not there." And I said, "Okay." And then we started talking about the intake and I don't know exactly name big details but we got to the point where I said well I was trying to get it for you know to see my kids Friday. She says well no you know I can't see you till Wednesday and then once we do that we can see the mother when she's ready to come in. And I was like what do you mean like so she volunteers for this? Like I have to wait for her. And she was like, "Well, you know, this is a cohort thing." And I said, "Well, well, okay." And then after that goes on, then we have to then you have to do your thing and then it's going to be like 3 weeks then you're saying, "Right." She's like, "Well, you know, these things take a long time." I was like, "Well, forget it. Let's just whatever. You know, if Wednesday is the earliest, then what time on Wednesday can I see you?" And she started saying, "When?" And she told me, "You have to bring whatever and you have to bring a $1,500 retainer." And that's when I lost my cool. And I said, "What what the [ __ ] are you talking about? A $1,500 retainer." Like, "You have to give me $1,500 for this service." And I said, "We already went through that, Steve. That's the conversation that I remember. There's no I'm going to be honest with you. She recorded it that like she's been doing this for 20 years." Okay. Okay. She's the director herself of that. What did I say? What's up? You threatened to kill her. You threatened to kill the judge. You threatened to kill your lawyer. You called them all. Uh, like I said, I'm going off the top of my head. Uh, like I said, the [ __ ] word, everything else. And like I said, it's I know how to find people, you know, to where I got a plan. You said it. No, I did not. That's a [ __ ] lie. All right. Instead of backtracking and trying to come up with an excuse for his words, McDow doubles down in his denial, even in the face of evidence. He would try the same tactic with detectives when interrogated about his wife's murder. Listen, I'm not here to make this stuff up. That's all right. I never been doing this. She's contracted. I never said Listen, she recorded it's on recorded. So, she's got a confident with Westchester County for over 20 years with New York City. So, that's why she says she's an old woman. She's been doing this for 20 years. This is the first time she's had to record conversation. Actually, it's their policy. It's their practice. Especially if you're saying if you're saying especially on initial contacts and even first initial visits to they always record them. So that's okay. That's fine. I have nothing to hide in the reporting. So that's the deal. No, I did not say those things. Show me the recording. We have it. I'm not going to sit here and play with you. No, no need to. You were there. Listen, I didn't Here's the thing. This is the thing for us. Look, this you know anybody I never said. You did. I did not. You did. I said I didn't listen to the whole conversation cuz I didn't need to. I did not. Once I hear the threats, that's fine. You're wrong. So, I'm not wrong. I did not say those things. I'm not wrong. I did not say those things. I want to hear the I want to hear the audio. Here's the thing. So, I want to I want to sit down because listen, like I started like I told you before, I was honest about I understand why you would say those things. As a father, as somebody going through the system, I want to tell you as a father, I'm not saying those things. Hold on. You said that. I did not. Okay. I understand being upset. I I understand even saying those things. So that's why we as detectives want to sit down and talk to you to see if there's somebody who's going to man up and say, "You know what? I [ __ ] up. Hold on. I'm sorry. You know what? I said, "Yeah, I said I was going to kill her. I said I'm going to shoot at the place." Whatever the case may be, but I didn't mean it. I was upset. You know what, Mike? I haven't seen my kids for months. You know, then what are you going to say? That makes sense. That's a man who doesn't intend to kill anybody, who doesn't intend to kill a judge or a lawyer or whatever they this woman. Okay? That's just a man or father recording of that. That's just a man who is going through a hard time, who's going through a divorce. Listen, you're not the first one. You're not going to be the last one. We've all Everybody has family issues, stuff like this. And we've done this a lot of times. And we sat and like I said, I wasn't lying when I say I don't sympathize and I don't understand why you would behave that way, why you would say those things. But you sat here for us for all this time now and you bullshitted us and you lied and you didn't come out and tell us you didn't come out and just be honest and say, "Hey, you know what? I [ __ ] up. This is what I said. I'm not woke. I'm not woke." Okay? I'm not going to play the game and and waste any more time. You said them. And listen, I said, "Yeah, I don't know you, but just from the time I can tell, listen, you are and I'm going to wait until you go on a lot cuz I don't know you, but you're obviously upset. You do kind of fly off a little bit to it." And again, I can understand all that. And and you know what? And I can make an excuse and like no, it's it'll it'll come out. But like I said, I would love to hear. You know what, Steve? I mean, I I get it, but I I get that you I get your stuff is being threatening to killing people. Well, listen, that's that's you said what you said and it's okay. See, that's your position. That's fine. And you don't you don't have to it doesn't matter to me. You don't have to be honest with me. You know, at this point, you know, she made a complaint. We have the recordings and, you know, we have enough to charge. I said, and at this point, really, what I want to know is, you know, is this is this the type of man who actually do this? Is this somebody that we're going to have to worry about? You know, that's why I want to sit down and talk to you and and see if we could get at least some honesty from you. Sorry. I don't need a confession. I I I could have charged you 2 hours ago. Whatever the case me I don't lie to you. I can't lie to you. I don't care anybody. I make a plan. Nobody audio recording. I know it. Listen, this is a policy. This is company. This is uh what is it? S uh you guys. Here's the thing. What did I say? I told you what to say. Listen, I'm not going to ask why you said that the exact words. But you threatened to kill the judge. You threatened her. You mentioned your [ __ ] plan or have you behind me, man. I never said those things. That's a thing to say. Listen, there were things that you said that you remember from last week. Oh, I could have said that. Why would you call? Why would you call her a fat? I remember those things. I remember you remember you remember was convenient for you and said you you let me let me explain why listen it it is like yeah people gave a little bit and you know to see how much it knows or see what's going on cuz nobody ever comes out and admits everything all that in the beginning. No, I know how interrogations work. I hate that's going on that gave me a two or three some people. Oh, you did it. You did it. Cuz again, like I said, I never anybody that there's proof of the conversation. Like I said, um I don't have to. I don't have to. I'm not. And like I said, I'm not going to waste the time anyway, too, cuz like I said, I I I want to see what I who I'm dealing with, and that's who you show. I mean, you're not you're not even remitting to what you did. Um that's fine. Listen, um it is what it is. And I again I told you if you come out and give me a reason that hey I [ __ ] up. I did not [ __ ] up. I was upset you know again I understand that but you said lie to our faces the whole time. I've never lied to you know it makes you know what this probably is a dangerous guy. This probably is a a violent guy or obviously you're somebody who doesn't have control of his emotions. Not true. Okay. It is true. And we see the way you behave today. I am. Okay. Look at you. You're angry. You even sh police station. Okay. You're cursing. What does that mean? What does that mean? You're in a police station. Yeah. That that's an excuse to be upsetly accused of crimes. Okay. And even in your own conversation for you just admit, you know, that's not the way you behave and talk to somebody. But the stuff that you even just admitted to, that's not how you act. This is how you act. You got three attorneys who freaking recuse themselves because they don't want to deal with you cuz they're afraid of you. You know the whole story. Okay, I got you. Okay, maybe I don't know the whole story. Granted, but still, one, granted, I'll give you the benefit of doubt. Two, all right, I know how the courts were work. Even some of the uh legal aid attorneys, I'm not going to give you any at this point. I don't even want to talk to you anymore. I don't I don't care at this point. That's not, you know, that's not it. So, I'm just telling you what I see from it. Okay? So, this way we're clear. Okay? It's like I said, two, I could see legal aid, you know, not being the best attorneys. You know what they say, you get what you pay for. But three attorneys and one of them even I heard the last one even filed a a police report against you. I filed agreements on him. You file a police report on No, Miss Hall the new one. She didn't file a police report on me. I'm being told she did. Well, she probably did because I asked for her address. Okay. Well, that and that in and of itself intimidating and that that intimates that you're going to fire. You don't want somebody to do something. She had to go and ask for Come on, Steve. Stop it. Okay, listen. Listen. If I'm the attorney and you say that to me, what does that tell me? What do you need to know my address for? You intimidate me. No, because I wanted to talk to her. [ __ ] You want to talk to her? You going to go to her house and talk to her? Listen, your kids are important to you. Do you love your kid? Like I said, I was messing with her unfortunately. Yeah. You messing with her? I'll admit to that 100%. Ask the line. And that coincides with everything else that's going on here. Unfortunately, you don't want to recognize it. I don't want to harm any. Your kids are important. That's why Listen, that's what I want to hear from you. No, but that's what I want to hear. Say, listen, detectives. You know what? Yeah. I didn't say I was going to kill people, but I do not say that though. Okay. I want I could say I know where you live, but you know what? I'm angry. I only said it because you guys are [ __ ] with me all this whole time. These this whole court proceedings and [ __ ] is pissing me off asking her her address. Yeah, cuz you were pissed off because I wanted her to quit. That's a form of intimidation when you ask somebody for their address. Okay. When you're sitting there, you're the client. That's threatening. We are We were on good terms many times. It wasn't that serious. Okay. Okay. It's serious enough for her to report it. It was like you're ignore me. Ignore me. Ignore me. What's your address? Listen, what's the common denominator here with all of these people? You. No, I understand from your point of view. Do you understand? And I understand to some extent. How are you going to get back to being in the right way with your kids? How are you going to get back to being with your kids if this keeps going on that way? Well, you know, how are you going to get back to that? Because if I can have a trial, I just show him late. I've gone eight months in silence, following court orders, going to work, being a good person, not bothering anyone, saying, "You're you're threatening her. You're harassing her. She doesn't want you texting her. I didn't text her. I didn't even see my kids. I I couldn't even call to talk to my kids." And I sat there and took it. you know, they'll be like, you know, and then if once we started talking, if the text got to an argument level, she went to it as breach of the order protection, but only to talk about scheduling kids. So, it's not as bad as you might want to make it look out or the violation. You don't want to make it look I I know what happened. I know what happened and I know why he did it and I know why. Cuz you know what? I'm telling you right now, you're a human being and there are other people you that when you were told that that $1,500 you lost your [ __ ] and I probably would have called it a kid. No, I would have said I would have lost my [ __ ] That was the straw that broke the camel's back because you have been going you keep getting excuse my French keep off. What's so wrong about that? What's wrong about that? More than tell her not I did not kill anybody. I did not do any of the things you're accusing me of or she's accusing me of. Sorry. Well, I'm sorry, but that is not the case here. Unfortunately, individual be called her fat. Okay. Or call her a [ __ ] I said those threats. Okay. People's lives. Okay. You did. You did. All right. And you you hear it when they play it in court. And you know what? You tell it to, you know, the judge. So, at this point, you're not to go back to Nurishok family court. Okay. um your case will you'll be notified where your case is going to go and all that. Okay, that may complain. I don't know. Um that's fine. I mean, believe me, I want to be Miss Cat's friend and I would never threaten anybody, especially my [ __ ] judge. The interview has turned into a cycle of accusation and denial. McDow isn't going to confess, and his lack of remorse won't serve him well during his trial. Why did you? I didn't. Okay. Well, some people listening of you just so you know people okay she hurt a girl also too. Sorry for their fear but I'm a harmless person and I'm not threat. You know what? Granted, I want to believe you. I want to believe that you're a harmless person. But in our profession, I can't if you can't even admit that I just not going to have a crime without me cuz they didn't commit any crime. You're going to have a crime anyway. I got no choice but to charge you for what? For the threats. And are they threats? They are. No, they are not. They are. state threats. I'm under arrest. Okay. Yes, you are under arrest. Okay. Okay. That's fine. Listen, if we wanted to do a delay, we wouldn't have even interviewed you and we would have had enough to do that. That's why we did this. I did not. All right. We wanted to give you the option. You're saying it's on audio. Yep. Play it for me. I'm not going to play for you. Listen, there's no need to play for you in here. Why can't you hear you? Cuz you hear it. I'm not going to sit here. I don't have to show you what was I did not and there's no memory of it cuz I did not threaten it. What do you mean there's no memory of it? How do you not have a memory of it? That's not an excuse. If anything, I said you're a [ __ ] [ __ ] No, it was m and you and yes, that's all on there also to also you're wrong. Okay. No, I'm not wrong. That's all on there too. What do you mean? Why are you saying he's wrong when we're telling you this? It's a fact. Because then you just said you're in the [ __ ] play zone. I never threatened anybody. We have not. We're not here to make it to you. We are not benefiting from this. We're trying to give you an an opportunity to explain why this the sign's just a choice. I have to kind I got to do a threat assessment on you. I I got to give my recommendation to the court to the district attorney's office. Is this the type of guy who's going to you know Yeah. Who's in who's going to go through his threats? You know, I don't even have threats against people. Okay. I have what you're You have the threats that you said on Friday to Miss uh to Carmen. Okay. Okay. You threatened her. You threaten the judge. Listen to her. I did not. Whatever. I did not. I still have to, you know, they're going to they're going to listen to the tape. Listen. They're going to listen to the tape. Can we talk? They're going to listen to the tape and they're going to say, "Okay, these are serious threats, especially if they're made at a court, at a judge, at a sitting judge who's preciding over your cases." Okay, listen. Who is preciding over your cases? Okay, that's one to say these things. Two is another thing is now is he capable? Yes, he has access to weapons. Okay. Now, is he somebody who's going to go through with these threats? You know, because that's going to play out in court and hold on. That's gonna play out in court and they're gonna look at that stuff and they're going to be like, "Okay, is this a guy that we're going to offer bail to? Is this a guy who's able to go back out in public?" You know, we don't determine that. We're not looking at that. But that's going to be part of what they look into. And again, you just sit here and BS us. I'm not BS. Okay. And only only give half truth. You only get part of your story cuz a part of your story lines up with everything else that's on that tape. But you're out all the meat and potatoes. I never threatened anybody. That's fine, Steve. That's okay. Listen, you can keep saying that all the way to the court. It's the truth. Okay. You can keep that story up until you in front of the judge. Any court, okay? Hey, you believe you have one. You'll get it. Okay. Your attorney will get it. And that's that's what it is. Sorry, I'm not going to say anything. didn't do. Again, that company SVE has been in business for over 20 years. So, you're not the first father who has threatened them, okay? Or, you know, where they had to CIA themselves, you know, and which is why they record all their first interactions, um, all their first contacts. Okay. Their first supervised visits, but it would have been now McDonald's. It would have been in their office where they videotape everything. They videotape your behavior. video would say the behavior of the kids, how they interact with you, that's how they operate these places. Okay? So, listen. Nope. I never threatened anybody. As a matter of fact, in your emails, she said, "Don't call me." I understand. I have the emails. We have all that. Yeah. We have all that. Like I said, we have all that. All right. I just You know what? I I I still don't even know how to even categorize you at this point. You know, are you going to go through with your threats? I don't know because like I said again, you're just sitting there and you know, you don't have to look at my good standing as a citizen. That doesn't mean anything. No, it doesn't mean anything. Okay. It doesn't mean anything. I'm a good person. You're you. That comes into play. You know, I I hope not. I hope not. But right now, I can't say that. I can't say that because you can't even be completely honest with us. You're giving us half the truth. I'm being absolutely honest with you. You're not, Steve. 100%. You're not 100%. All right. I'm not lying to you. Hey, whatever. Like I said, at this point, I'm going to tell it to the judge because, you know, and they'll decide everything that's going to go on. All right? And obviously, listen, the recording itself speaks for itself, okay? Um, hey, that's fine. We're going to process you. We're going to take you down. We're going to fingerprint it, uh, photograph, and, um, the charge you're looking at is a phony charge. So, you'll probably be staying with us and going to get a rain tomorrow morning. I did not do anything. Hey, that's that's fine. That's fine. That's your story. I did not do anything wrong. Okay, but you know I want to hear forget about the or it exists. You still see we do this for a living because hold on a second I say things like you we do this for a living. Okay. You want to charge you got to be charged. I don't listen. I don't need a confession from you. Listen, I don't even want to talk to you no more. You said you want to talk to the lawyer. That's it. We're done. We're done. You still want to talk to me? Do you still want to speak to me about what you want me to make? I'm not going to do I don't want to confess. You want to lock me up? You want me You want me to talk to you? You ask for what? You want me to talk to you? Are you going to lock me up? You want me to talk? You're going to lock me up no matter what. Yeah. What is it you try? What do you want? Tell me the truth. Tell me the truth. Tell me the truth. That's it. Tell me the truth. Yeah. Tell me the truth. You made some threats, but you were [ __ ] upset. I did not. You don't mean them. I said harsh words. No threats. Okay. What house words did you say? [ __ ] [ __ ] kidnapper, that kind of stuff. Okay, whatever. Okay, we're done. Sit tight. Steven McDow was later brought in for the murder of his ex-wife. He was found guilty of murder and sentenced to 50 years in prison. And that's where we end this video. If you like today's video, then drop a like. And if you want to support the channel even further, you can check out my Patreon link in the description below. Thanks for watching. I'll see you in the next one.