we just um called the law enforcement they're on their way over here oh okay well you guys are closing right now too aren't you yeah oh why'd you call law enforcement um you could have follow me yeah it is a county building but you don't have unfettered access to be videotaping the employees oh if they feel uncomfortable when you're videotaping them you have to see s really okay because then otherwise it it becomes another legal oh okay where did you get your law degree I didn't get my law degree but you exping to yeah you might want to you're you might want to call a lawyer you're welcome them explain to you okay all right so we're out here at the Moa County government complex we're here to serve a lawsuit on the county for failing to fill open records requests hey you know where the clerk's office is yes Straight Ahead all right thanks we already know what the laws are on open records requests but I wanted the clerk to admit it herself so that you see that they know what the law is and they willfully choose to violate it hey how are you good do you know how to do an open records request what's that okay okay sorry can I camera uh because we're going to document the process okay you wanted to a a request yeah okay you would just put this up for me okay then how does the process work after I give it to you this and then I will email it off to the department that wherever the request is coming from and let you know that we have 3 to 15 days to get back to you okay um and then I wait I'm the middleman so I just send it off and then wait for information get back to me to send to you okay you said you have three to 15 days yeah so three days to get back to you and up to 15 days to get you the information okay three days to get back to me in 15 to give me the information yeah should give it in 3 days if we can but we're pretty behind on The Bu so okay what happens if it's more than 15 days I just let you know that we're requesting more time that's really the process at this point okay is there like some kind of statute that says you have to fill it within a certain time uh there is I couldn't tell you off the top of my head it's probably listed on my paper somewhere uh section 14 I'm not sure if that's the exact one but I mean those you could probably get into that and it'll lead you to the correct states that you want to look at okay so I I think someone told me that like whatever the time limit is that's in State Statute so so like if you go past that time limit then um is consequences I guess okay so it'd be like breaking the law if you went past it cuz the law says 15 yeah okay you guys U and you told me you're behind on requests in this County a few them okay how many are you behind on I couldn't tell you off the top of my head okay you guys ever uh go ahead I'm sorry do you need to get that yeah sorry sorry no problem how many do you think you're uh um we've actually been we got a new manager and the process has been sped up so not too many um we've been getting them out now I'm not sure if it's 14 or 15 days I thought it was 14 but I'll put 14 to 15 would you say that all the ones that you're behind on are from this year from 2024 starting in January probably uh yeah I don't know that they B I have to like I said I couldn't tell you off the top of my head I'll have to go back okay can I ask your name uh I go by Grande his name is Grande Johnson Johnson everything okay yeah who was that our manager the clerk someone no no the county manager someone must have called and said you were recording so he just was asking why there's not anything wrong with that is there I don't think so he didn't seem to be he said okay he said since recording your process that the process okay an issue um so I'm requesting all of the records that are past due that or that were delivered past due for 2024 that's james.com yeah go ahead okay and then I've got one other thing for you um you're the deputy clerk so I think you can take this this is um a lawsuit for some of the records that have it been filled um and that we've received absolutely no response I believe so cool and I can just leave that with you right uh yeah I don't know if you want me to I got it or anything we got it documented so I think I think we're good anyways good okay thank you this all started with a property dispute where County Employees were allegedly removing Gates Andor chains from a road to enter a property to go hunting the man who put the gates and chains up claims that it's private property and a private road but the county claims that it's public property and a publicly maintained road so the landowner put in a records request asking for the property lines as well as records of the county maintaining or not maintaining the road these are very simple records requests that were put in in August of 2024 but as of November 2024 they still haven't been filled the landowner was forced to retain an attorney to sue the county for the records pertaining to his own property lines Attorney Zack cook attempted to get them to just simply fill the records request back in August but 3 months later they were forced to bring on attorneys Blair dun and Jared Vander duen to sue the county as they still hadn't filled the requests which is the lawsuit that I was serving to them on this day I was on my way out when I noticed this sign that said you can't take photographs of maps and documents in the assessor's office the problem is that all the maps in the assessor's office are public records and the public records law says that we have the right to inspect public records as soon as is reasonable therefore if the public records are laying out on a table we have a right to look at them to inspect them to photograph them and to video record them the reason this caught my attention is because the maps that are laying out on the tables right now that our public record are exactly the type of records that somebody requested that we're having to file a lawsuit to get so the fact that they've got a sign that says we can't inspect public records while I'm serving a lawsuit for them failing to fill public records ah this is too [Music] good hey how's it going guys we ask you to turn off your cameras we don't allow photographs or any recording in here in where in our office in this yeah what is that could you please turn that off first and I'll answer any question I just want to document my business that I do with my government is that you're going to refuse to do business with me if I'm what is it that you're needing to do I just wanted to get some pictures of some maps we sell pictures of the maps I can't just take them okay so I I can't get a picture of that map right there no sir so that would would that be illegal then I had to buy it from you illegal but we do sell our our Maps you sell your Maps yeah okay where do I go to buy them then uh we'll print out a copy here and then we'll send you to the treasures office to be okay all right let me see I need some GIS surveys do you guys do that here no some GIS survey Maps what kind of maps can I get here then they're going to be our property land Maps right that's what we're going to yeah sure yeah right okay are they GIS they're actually um handdrawn we don't have them in the gis system yet are they going to be put in there soon could you stop reporting me though please I don't feel comfortable actually in this yeah it's just that I mean I don't feel comfortable being taxed and then told that I had to buy the stuff that I was already taxed for so I mean we're all a little uncomfortable I think we'll get through it though go to the manager's office and I'll have him actually guys talk to okay who's your manager the manager will be here shortly you guys wait for him in the lobby okay thanks y we th at 4:30 so I don't know till weekend on time but oh okay there hey can I get your out I'll give the access's office real quick um so the public records law says that I can inspect any public records that are available at the moment and I just wanted to inspect the maps on the on the table right there and I was in here taking a picture of them and freaked out about it said I have to buy them but that's not what the law says so I just want to get pictures of them real quick uh I'm I'm not sure because we don't usually allow pictures these kind of things get I I mean I'm not sure what I can do yeah I mean from what we've seen you guys don't usually F open records requests either so and and one of the records that was being requested was some surveys and so I just want to get the ones that are right there that are visible and since they're readily available the open records law says that they have to at least let me inspect them visually so could you excuse us for well I was just asking her for help on explaining to you how the work and yeah you could go you could go through the inspection of public records act request anything and it says that I can inspect any public records that are readily available and those Maps right there are readily available so I just want to inspect them until the manager comes and you can deal with him like what I said well I just want to inspect them visually could you please so we can just inspect these right here you want to just flip them over for meit prop of sorry this isn't my office I don't want to sure do it but it's public it's I understand you're the clerk that's why I asked you to help I I understand but it seemed like you pretty knowledgeable what was going on why it's okay that's just why I was asking come and get him to lay off let us so can we just turn these over and get pictures of I don't want to tell you yeah those are actually all filed in the cl's office these are filed in the's office so they are public record then okay well I'd like to inspect them then I can you want to show me in there sure all these maps that are right here you want show me in there okay cool thanks oh what was your name Paul Paul thanks Paul all right see you guys in you know exactly which ones are on that table right there um so what we do is get copies of each one recorded so it's going to be everything that we have I mean he's probably put most of them back in his drawer but these are what he has there I couldn't tell you like specifically it's this one but okay yeah the thing is that I already heard that he's being difficult about making people buy stuff when the public can just take come in and we can take our own pictures I understand buying it if you know if you're going to give me this massive sheet right um but you know he's been telling people that you can't come in and photograph these things which is a real problem um I really just wanted the top the first two that are on that desk the numbers thank you perfect thank you so much I think it'll be good enough quality we can just zoom in on everything there yeah that's good perfect hey just quick question what would it cost me for those first two maps then these ones are 10 bucks a piece 10 bucks and and would you give it to me in the form of that actual size paper okay that makes that makes reasonable sense I just was looking for photographs of them know not the actual thing so yeah okay so we can clarify that next time we come in that we're just looking for in to inspect not for you to provide something for us and then so what are you guys you guys are survey you said right uh no there's there's specific surveys that that I was looking for and we did U somebody did for a request on them a while ago they haven't been filled and so at this point I was just trying to figure out what in general what's going on why are uh you know why is the public not being given this stuff um I would have to look at the lawsuit that we just served them just to see exactly to I don't remember exactly which surveys we had requested see because usually I not mistaken when you go through an inspection of public records act it's actually given to the Record Keeper which is the clerk's office M and at that point there's if they have any copies or ER they're supposed to get those available for you guys yeah sure but um like I say they are the record keepers of everything everything else in here is different we do close down at 4:30 so cool yeah I won't stay past closing I just um in the future when people come in and just ask to take pictures of the records though we can just let them do that right and like I say I hate my face to be recorded that's why I'm I hate being but like I say I'm not I I get it man I hate being taxed you know it does but yet like I say I'm asking you guys kindly and and saying could you please at least even place it down and hear my voice that's fine but you guys are can you please not tax you guys aren't oh that's you have to go back to the old days and yeah even since then they' always paid taxes yeah so I mean I pay taxes I'm forced to pay it right you're living off of it so I mean feelings don't really I'm not recording everybody's face or anything either just because I you're not recording everybody's face you're just taking everybody's income and their hard hard ear money and telling them that you're not going to give them what you are supposed to give them so where if they want to get provided with the information they do have to go to the proper steps yeah and the proper steps are that I see a public record I have the right to document that public record right then there and you could request different suspection I can do it either way do it I could do it either way I choose to do it the way I want to do it and why I told you if you'd be kindly enough to wait for the manager and go through him we great appreciate that um I mean your manager can help you understand U but we we cannot already understand what we need to do here so well that's why I say I'm asking you kindly also at the same time and again I'm asking you kindly to not work for you know not take my tax dollars and live off of my hard work so I don't think that's going to happen though right so I I I guess we'll just agree to disagree and that'll be it right you'll continue to extort me make a living off of my hard work and I'll continue to record have a good one buddy no you too yep thank you foring right we just um called the law enforcement they're on their way over here oh okay well you guys are closing right now too aren't you yeah oh why'd you call law enforcement um you could have follow me I'll walk you you ready for Thanksgiving oh yeah I'm ready headed out of town how about you I'm ready too are you guys ready well we're all closing down and leaving anyways right tomorrow I mean we wouldn't stay past closing we got about 4 minutes left right um yeah I'm going to actually sit here and we can finish our conversation yeah it's chilly out there otherwise I'd go talk with you out there but I didn't bring a jacket it is yes so why' you call law enforcement um we just let them know that they're we were're unaware of who you are and what you're here for gosh really yeah yes can you call them for me too then and tell them that I'm unaware of who you are well they're actually coming now so you can talk to them yourself once they get here it shouldn't be much longer let me let me come out and peek see where they're at is it uncommon for people oh here he is the manager is here you can talk to him if you want to is it uncommon for people you don't know to come in and do business with the county or no no it's not we see a lot of people just people that this is kind of something we never seen what being served a lawsuit um no just cameras in our face actually in your face yes in your face hi people I called all righty how you doing boss I'm I'm James I go I'm the county manager how you doing how may I help you oh I'm good I'm I'm on my way out at this point okay so what is it that you're you're wanting to record oh well I was doing a public records request serving a lawsuit on the county and uh was trying to get some public records as well so okay so just just as you understand any records that you would need from the county you have to submit an Nipper request yeah it is a county building but you don't have unfettered access to be videotaping the employees oh if they feel uncomfortable when you're videotaping them you have to see s really because then otherwise it it becomes another legal okay where did you get your law degree I didn't get my law degree but you I'm just explaining to you you might want to call lawyer you're um you might want to call a lawyer you're welcome have them explain to you okay I mean I'm going to go ahead and let you talk if you do that you're just going to keep digging your hole deeper and deeper and looking dumber and dumber so give you the opport I'm going to give you the opportunity to leave the building Ser because we are closed we got uh 1 minute left we got one minute left right it's 4:29 we guess close at 4:30 right hey thanks for coming up here man and let me know that if uh government employees uncomfortable being recorded that I can't record them and is that law by the way is that a law or is that just some some that you like made up on the way here have a good one man I'll be back tomorrow