Destry hunt I'm here with Sheriff Frazee conducting an interview at 207 March 23rd so I know your time is uh short because you have some you have to be in court at three yeah okay so I'm just going to jump right into the questions if that's okay yeah so so you you said you would not be enforcing mask mandates yet you arrested Tina Estrada for wearing a masking Court how do you explain that two points I didn't know she was not arrested by a deputy sheriff and she and it was not because of a mask okay so how will voters know uh when to believe you when to believe what you say going forward I haven't changed so what's the difference so so there with what they will contend and what they contend on social media was that you stated to Mr Freeman that that you were arresting her for not wearing a mask correct so you had you had told you had told the comment was made to Freeman see what I'm looking for the right word of I'll have to come up with that I don't know what it is she was not that that is an incorrect statement I was doing it just because Freeman was bugging me and bugging me and bugging me pushing and pushing and pushing and tell them you arrested for Masters on yeah I did it was just being kind of facetious okay that was the that is not what she was arrested for okay so she was arrested for what was she arrested for then she was arrested for contempt of court okay and by the judge by the judge okay no deputies arrested her the judge arrested her the judge asked us to transport her so how did the how did the judge arrest her because the judge told her you are in contempt of court I'm going to sentence you to one day told the officer to take her back transport around okay okay so so when the officer said um because they said that the officer said you're under arrest whenever uh she was in there it could be okay I don't know that for a fact but it could be if the judge has her in order for contempt of court we didn't do any paperwork we didn't do a criminal complaint there's no there was no law statute or ordinance violated so we have an authority to arrest her on any of those charges any any she didn't file any rules I mean any laws or ordinances the judge has the ultimate Authority in a courtroom to to maintain a courtroom and the judge decided that she was disruptive causing a problem she continued to do that he issued a warrant for her for not a warrant but a contempt to arrest uh paper I don't know what they call it and asked us to transporter jail gave her one day so do you know how she was being disruptive from I was not in there at the time I was in there for half of it first part no second part yes because he brought her back in before her again he brought her in before him again uh I think trying to see if if she would then behave herself he brought her before that he brought her back in after he had sent her out with the deputy and she's sitting out there for a while and I'm out there where they're visiting and talking seeing what I can do to help then the judge calls her back in when the judge called her back in I went in also she was not being in my opinion defiant at that time she was being argumentative the judge's decision was she was in contempt of court he's the one put out the charge for her he's the one that's going to be doing the paperwork it's not a law violation we don't get involved in that but if if he tells us this person is violated whatever and we want them taken into custody then that is a legal obligation and we're forced to follow that okay but you don't know how she was being disruptive I I've heard but I can't tell you firsthand okay and and uh was it a was it was it a sheriff's deputy who physically arrested her when you're going to have to split hairs on the word of arrest who who took her into custody yes so so judge is the one that said you are under arrest he said that well I'm not sure if he ordered those words but by issuing her the contempt paper and ordering us to take her into custody that was from him okay we're obligated to follow the judge's orders orders of the Court okay so do you know when he told her that was it um in court or when did he tell her she was under arrest I and again I wasn't there but that was the first time when she was doing the deed um I don't know that he uttered those words he may he may not there's a probably some cameras going off that we could get bro and we can find out but uh the mere fact that he says you're in violation of condemn to court and tells the deputy taker into custody we're taking direction from the judge okay so okay so and I know this is a hypothetical on an end and I'm still trying to understand how this this uh how the contempt charge works because um this is new and I understand that initially the the judge wanted to trespass her I've heard that and like I said I wasn't there but from what I understand is the judge is relatively new on the bench he might have been a little confused I'm not sure but initially he had told her to leave and she refused to leave now I'll get the statute out and show you trespass you want me to and it says that if there is a person in a place and she's asked to leave and doesn't leave him or her um then it's a violation of sorry I may not violation rights it's trespassing okay if they for example if you're in here and you're causing a big problem and I said get out you have to get out of here and you don't get out I've told you to get out I've got custody and control of the area and you don't get out I have a right to then arrest you for trespass because you're not leaving when I told you to get out so when he when he told her initially when when he ejected her from the um uh courtroom did he initially say that she was in contempt of court or that she was trespassing Dino initially first Passion so he ejected her under trespassing and then she was outside correct and uh you're you're asking me questions I don't know because I wasn't there okay I don't know um from what I gather from the deputies and speaking with the one that was involved uh he said to me that the judge um asked her to leave and she refused she refused to put on the mask and then she refused to leave and arguing with the judge and the judge said well then I'm going to charge you with trespass it's up to the judge right okay and he went into his Chambers and did some phone calls or whatever he was doing do you know who he called oh I have no idea and uh then came back and and I believe Lieutenant Ballard had a conversation with him and and mentioned something about maybe trespasses the wrong statute not be wanting to use that one and somewhere sometime after that then he comes back and he says well then it's contempt of court direct content so they had to figure out what how to charge her for right okay um but if if trespassing would have been a possibility the judge would have uh charged her with trespassing instead of contempt of court correct okay and so so you mentioned that the judge he's a little green and uh trying to figure this out and and that makes sense if he's trying to figure out you know how to uh charge the person if it's trespassing or if it's a contempt of court and the the question that's on everybody's mind and I brought this up on social media is okay so if this can happen with masking what then with because this is you know we're just following orders because that that's really what the conversation is about is we're just following orders and so then what happens in the event of red flag laws when the the court issues an order saying okay this person according to the red flag law uh should have their their firearms uh taken from them will you follow that order that comes from the court yes the court has issued an order and a directive we have so yes you will you will follow the red flag law we'll follow whatever Law whatever order the court issues were obligated to follow it so so this this County was one of one of the uh the counties that was designated as a second amendment Sanctuary County where the previous Sheriff had said he would not enforce red flag laws because he felt like the uh Constitution was was um was above the the red flag law that it trumped the red flag law so this was a sanctuary County and and the commission I believe passed a resolution to that effect so are you saying that that the county now is not following that resolution I don't know what the county is doing I'm following the judge's orders so I mean any order from the judge has to be followed I guess I mean so so you you are no longer um under under your watch this is no longer a sanctuary Second Amendment Sanctuary County no I'm not saying that at all Second Amendment Sanctuary County means that the sheriff will refuse red flag orders but you're saying you will follow red flag orders think about it red flag orders are there for what reason to keep people from being murdered and killed and whatever so you have to assess everything involved now I have not taken any and I haven't seen any and when they come I'll have to take them on a case-by-case basis but I can tell you if we don't follow the red flagged law and somebody ends up being murdered then there's a huge liability on the Sheriff's Department because we were told to do it we were informed notified and we failed to act and as a result somebody's dead so there's something that you've got to consider also and if if we can go to hypothetical we go to the house it's Lackey neighbor over here and there's no evidence to indicate whatever that is going on the man's storing them he's got him safe and he's following the laws and all that I may then look at the whole totality of the circumstances and I'll make a decision at that time I may I may take it I may not take it it depends so you may follow the order or you may not I'll look at the I'll look at the situation I don't blindly follow the orders if I see a violation of law we're going to act on it um if Give an example if if someone has a sawed-off shotgun and it's illegal to possess possess it and we know that it is there we're going to take the gun so so so you would go into the residence uh and I'm trying to remember a red flag law doesn't necessarily mean that there's a warrant so there's not a probable cause correct so they're going so you're saying that you would go in without a warrant to to look at the person's Firearms no never go in without a warrant so you just go in under the flat red flag law though right no to how would you know if the person had a shot of shotgun a number of ways I could come to our attention somebody might tell us someone it might be maybe there someone in the household is angry with him and says hey he's got this gun over there or whatever it is we'll get a warrant we'll go in we'll get the gun the way we work our laws so you can get a warrant just because somebody says that they have a their neighbor has a sawed-off shotgun it can happen yeah that's enough for a warrant yeah for probable cause yeah well it's up to the judge we'll put it together and we'll submit it to the judge the judge will then determine if probable cause exists If he if he believes there is and signs the warrant then we're going in together and and the judge would be uh one of these judges that that uh like the district court judge in that case correct yes okay okay um so just to clarify because I I we we had quite a discussion I just want to make sure that I I don't misquote you and that I um understand this clearly so if a red flag order is issued you may follow it I won't I won't blindly follow that order I will investigate before I do anything and if I can if I believe that there is if it's genuine and there's really a reason for concern uh and and we need to remove that gun because there's a man in the house who is really crazy he's already been shooting up the house and whatever the case is it of course we're going to take the gun so so under a red flag law there's there's usually because if there was those other things happening there would be um they wouldn't need a red flag law because there's if you're shooting a thousand I'm just I'm saying for under the red flag law uh somebody has not uh they have not committed any crime they they might not even know that somebody is is uh has gone to to the court to make this allegation uh it could be um an ex-spouse it could be somebody who didn't like what they posted on social media could be a completely false allegation and so the court then um it could be it could be a number of things but the court then issues this red flag uh order and so there is uh no other reason why you would uh approach this this gun owner so knowing that because that's the situation we're talking about with the red flag law and that's what people are wondering about so then you go to the house what happens well given that scenario I wouldn't even go to the house okay well I wouldn't even knock them so is it is it clear for your deputies because you know you you've got to go home sometime and sleep and some of these things will happen when you're uh not on your watch is there is there a clear instruction that your deputies are following as far as these types of situations they will uh I'm not sure to be quite honest if they each one and everyone knows the sergers no and the sergeants will be informed at that time and if it's necessary then they'll bump it up to either the underseriff or myself or or a lieutenant okay so there's we have we have safeguards I've always been a proponent always and and I still am that the gun is an inanimate object and the gun's not going to hurt you it's the band that's behind the gun that's pulling the trigger that's who hurts you and I would suggest that if we have a case where we believe there's like a red flag situation and if it's uh it's a becoming a problem we'll take the person away to be evaluated get with the district attorney we'll get a commitment order whatever we need to do take the person away from the gun rather than to take the gun away because when you take the gun away you leave the family defenseless and they need a they need to have a weapon to protect themselves so um you know I'm not going to blindly go in and follow all the red flag laws if if there's something there that potentially really dangerous um then we may act on that okay thank you I'm gonna try to hurry and wrap this up because I know you're gonna need time to travel to court um if if this happened again at the court with the mask is there anything you would do differently so if if if he said okay well this person is um in contempt then they would do it again and the person would expect to be transported to jail yes okay is the judge if the judge issues a contempt warrant we are legally obligated follow up on that so if the judge users are contempt because let's just say hypothetically right because the person um glared at the judge in a way that the judge felt was threatening and the judge uh issued a contempt to order would you guys transport yes so there's really no limits as long as there's a contempt order you guys will follow orders the the judge is the one that makes the arrest you transport okay um so I had now this is just how you feel and this is a uh um I and I understand that this is just your opinion and and so it's just something to think about but it's something that people are talking about so you have the opportunity to weigh in the issue with the masks on at the courts is that uh it it it impacts the juries because those who who prefer not to wear a mask they tend to to not be on the juries because they express that they don't want to wear a mask and they get um excused from jury uh Duty Etc so then you have uh juries who are disproportionately those who uh will do whatever uh somebody tells them to do without question you know they they one would argue that they have that they use less that they will challenge the uh the narrative less so if if um if somebody says that this is how it is they they might be less likely to uh to challenge that and and um that's that's the case that some people make and so that's that's who is the people in the ending up on juries therefore they tend to be of a certain um group of people and some are calling that jury tampering by the state that the state is stacking juries and that is affecting uh the justice and that we are a party to it how do you feel about that do you feel um um do you feel like that is uh moving us closer to tyranny and do you feel like that um changes your mind at all about whether to challenge any of these um contempt orders or other orders connected to masks uh I I do I it's a it is a concern and I do think I I in fact I never even thought about that but uh that that just piqued my entry interested I can see them where the jury would be one-sided and that's definitely what we need don't need in the judicial system so I can see that being a problem um that that needs to be looked at however it's my understanding at the end of the month the whole State's going to do away with the masks everything and it'll all be gone so that may be a point anyway um and uh I I I don't like the fact that the country is moving to the left um I'm I'm not of that persuasion and if I see where there's going to be issues and problems like that I will say one thing that I think you asked if I would do something different I think the next time um I will have a direct conversation with the judge myself and and just say you know are you sure and point out a few more pointers to make sure the judge knows what he's what he's doing and uh and try to try a little harder I my lieutenant did that um I should have so next time I think if there's a contempt issue similar to this I'll have a request to meet with the judge and Chambers and see if we can't you know mitigate but at the end of the day if the judge says it's contempt he's making the charges I've got to follow the orders and take her down last question we'll get you out of here okay um so I read the order before coming over here from the Supreme Court I wanted to brush up on it and it did seem to say I mean it was a little bit confusing but it did seem to say that that for the public they're just required to wear the mask in jury deliberation rooms and the courtroom Etc but the uh employees of the Court are required to wear masks even in the employee areas employees and officers and I noticed um in the live stream uh of of uh Mr Freeman that there were employees behind the glass who were not wearing masks and I wonder why they are permitted to do that but the public is not because the perception that's growing and this is what's really upsetting people is that you've heard the Phrase rules for thee and not for me that that they feel like you know we are being treated like we are the serfs and these government officials and employees treat us like uh they are uh our overlords as they say and and that's that is really causing some discontent um when you have a discussion with the judge uh do you do you think it would be important to talk to him about this uh perception of of the public and this they are really really angry uh with him the public is they are they they are very angry with him I I would say it's it's difficult to know if they were more angry with you or with him and to your credit you're making yourself accessible to questions and I think that that you know some people could uh people who are might otherwise be very upset might decide okay well at least I know I can talk with them and you know this is interesting that you know he's giving these uh other bits of uh you know his perspective but they're not getting that from the judge and so on top of that you've got judges employees obeying different rules is this something that you think would be valuable to discuss with him do you think he would benefit from uh addressing any of these questions I think it would be would you commit to talking to him and and finding out if he would be open to this kind of a conversation I will ask him okay meet him at three o'clock okay well hopefully hopefully you fairly feel like this has been Fair uh and I I know it's a tough interview but uh you know you get to stay true you've always been Fair and civil and I appreciate that well any parting words so that you know you can have the last word um yeah I would like to say this that uh people I've been asked quite a bit this morning about am I really a constitutional sheriff and the point is yeah you know I don't believe in The Masks never have I don't believe I don't I've never been jabbed I'm not going to get jabbed um well I stand up for your rights Absolutely I'll stand up for your rights but I also have to follow the law to a degree to a degree I don't have I would never put you on the train and take you for you to go to the gas chamber that would never happen but in a situation where it is clear there's a violation of the law the judge has made the determination and he is the one that decided that she needed to go to jail and orders us to transport that's our we don't have any other way you know if I didn't do that and he would have me in handcuffs and I'd be transported to jail so uh you know at some point you've got to say okay well we can go so far and then you stop okay well thank you for your time I'm gonna stop the recording