We were looking for a wanted subject. I hear something on the radio and I'm not even sure what it was, but I knew they asked for a dog. So, I'm like, "All right, I got to go." So, I just start driving. And then I start to realize that it was an escape prisoner. And we start tracking. So, we're tracking through the apartment complex. We actually come out to the backside of Publix and now it's just that whole wooded area where all those swamps are. So, I do the point to point. Ronin goes into the woods and now me and Mike are in the swamp. The water is probably like mid thigh. Ronin's not even tracking. He's just swimming. As we get probably mid into the swamp, we can't see anything. There's nobody around. But all of a sudden, out of nowhere, Ronin just dives under the water. This is 56, a Panelis County Sheriff's Office podcast. I'm Ricky Butler with Laura Sullivan and Ashley Culie. This episode, we're going back to the dogs. We've got Corporal Justin Fineberg with us from the K9 unit. This is a guy that uh grew up in in in Boston. Yes, sir. In the Northeast there. uh and uh came down here, wanted to be a cop, got picked up by the sheriff's office, and there's a lot of fun stuff in between that we want to talk about. But first, Ashley has a question. Your name is a verb. What does it mean to Laura something, Ricky something, Justin something? You mean like my actual name as a verb? Like my last name? Either it. It's just really your name being a verb. be like, "Oh, man. You just that up." Oh, whatever. Wow. Oh, yeah. To Laura something is to to be looking over your shoulder at the body cam that you all think it's hilarious and me finding some really serious thing like, "No, don't you understand what's going to happen to that animal after that uh camera cuts off." That is one% appropriate. I feel like it should be perfection, but it's not because I say a lot of crazy stuff and I'm always falling down. So, if you were to Justin that, that means you probably messed it up. So, like anti anti just don't don't do what Justin does. Okay. Um, wow. There's so many ways I go with this, but I think to counter the Justin, if you Ricky something, it's a total disaster, but it looks great and you'll never know. That's good. As long as you look good while you mess up, that's all that matters. Exactly. That's true. And most people don't know. We say it all the time. We're talking about things that go wrong because they do go wrong. People don't know what they don't know. Yeah. No. That's why when I fall down at least like I do a nice Honda roll, right? Like you me it looks like I meant to do that. Yeah. Especially when the eagle catches it on video. Then it's really good. Does that And then and then Laura's looking over the shoulder going, "Man, I think he I don't know." Dang. He definitely dislocated that. Yeah, that doesn't look good. And do you know about the environmental impact of falling into that six foot pit that you just fell into? Yeah, it's hard to recover from. Mine's not as exciting. I think uh for to Ashley something is just to overthink the hell out of it until it's Yeah, we need to change that. All kind of messed up. But I have been told actually what is Ashley something is to show up in your vehicle on fumes. Okay. Yeah. I was like, "Oh, okay. I feel like that could apply probably to a lot of a lot of people in your demographic." Yeah. I guess I wait until it's it's blinking at me. It tells me it's time. That's what I do. That was a good one. Yeah, that was a really good one. I like that. She's on a roll. I mean, they've all been good. Sometimes she really stumps us, but other times like that was fun. That was good. Yeah. You think we'll start using those in the office, though? Yeah, why not? You really ried up that flowchart. Good job. Yeah. Yeah. That's an Aaron thing, too. That's a whole different That's a whole different verb. All right. Justin Fineberg. Yes. Grew up ashole. I did. And we are. We are for sure. So, uh, that that saying is 100% legitimate. So, you were you were a uh a sports guy growing up. I was. I was. All the sports. Why? Tell us about that. I don't know. I mean, it's just I I love the um the competition aspect of everything. I think I've always been that way. I've always been drawn to pushing myself um pushing myself to the limit in that sense. And competition is great. And when you're good at something, I mean, it feels good. I mean, at the end of the day, so being able to do a sport and and grow up doing something like that and it it it helps you. I mean, it conditions you so many things. I mean, even even having coaches, I mean, they're almost like second fathers in that sense. I mean, you're learning a lot from people. So, it it was a good good attribute for growing up and doing that. So, yeah, I loved I loved sports growing up. And you're always like in in the star position, right? I was. I was. It's not just you you know. Yeah. So, you were the quarterback and you were the I don't know if sports. I was I was I was the quarterback when I played football. I was a pitcher when I played baseball. I was a point guard when I played basketball. So, you're like the guy. I was I was the guy, but now I'm just the guy. Just a guy. Yeah. Just just a guy. Um I might argue with that, but So, like you mentioned, you referenced a few. So, you literally played all the sports, basketball, baseball, football. Pretty much all year long I was always doing something. Doing sports. Did you play all the way through high school then? Like all the way? No college or anything? No. No. Just gave it up then. Like I just I I didn't really like school, so college wasn't for me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. At that point, I was just done. Which is totally fine for you youngsters listening out there. If you don't like school, that's fine. You don't have to go to college. Yeah. Just do something with yourself. Exactly. Um, so, uh, how did you, so you had some family members that were in law enforcement and you kind of knew from an early age you just wanted to do something that helped people. Tell us about that. Yeah, so I mean um, my uncle, he was in the military. He was a Vietnam vet. When he got out, he was a a cop in Malden. Uh, he did that for a long time. My dad, he was, um, in the jail growing up. Um, working in the jail. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's that's another family member. That's a different story. Everyone has one. Everybody's got one of those. Yeah. Had a lot of jail experience. Um yeah. So I it it was I I don't know if I would say it was so much in my blood. I just think I've always felt like I was meant to do something with myself to help people whether it was um getting into a firefighter or law enforcement or something like that. I've just always felt like I had that itch where I was supposed to do something more with myself. Outside of those family connections, was there ever like a moment you remember where you like saw something or experienced something you're like, I want to be I want to be that guy. Like when you were a kid? No. No. No. No. I had that moment later in life, right? After I was a cop. That's that's probably how I got into K9. But we'll get like younger. Um it was just the norm. Yeah. Because it it's so different now. Um when I was younger, you didn't you didn't talk to cops. I mean, it's just you just didn't you knew they were doing their job. You just left them alone. Now everybody wants to talk to you. I mean, everybody wants to come outside and be like, "Should I be concerned?" Yes. Get in your house. Like, it's very simple. Like, there's a bad guy out here. Stop asking me questions. Just go. Right. Just go inside. So, um, did you ever think about the military or um I tried when I was younger, but um, I started getting tattoos at a very young age. And back then, like seven. Oh, yeah. Right. That uh we're in the jail. That's what it was. Started real early. Yeah. Dad showed me how to do them and uh you know it was it was great. Um All right. So the tattoos were disqualifiers. Yes. They aren't anymore though, are they? No, not anymore. No, but back then when I tried Yeah, it was a disqualifier. So had to have any visible tattoos or Yeah, cuz back then I I I started early from my wrist up. So I think it was it had to be like under your sleeve or something like that. So Okay. Yeah. So I was a no-go. But So worked out for the best. And then so from the military though that that attempt that conversation whatever that was than it was straight to the law enforcement thing. So Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So up north it's it's completely different than down here you have to take it's called like a civil service exam and they put it out once a year and you just kind of show up at this place and you just do a written aptitude test I guess just to make sure you know what you're doing which I don't but um somehow you pass. Yeah. Somehow you squeak that one off. But you get put on the list and um they just go down it and they just kind of start from the top and just kind of work their way down. So I did that for um firefighter and for police and I actually got hired by the Boston Police Department. And the difference between down here and up there is um you have like the police side and then you have the medical side. So my stepmom at the at that time she was a lieutenant for the Boston Police Department. So I went through the whole process. Um they called her and they're like, "Hey, your son, he's got the job. He's hired. He's all set. Then you got to go do the medical portion. And during the medical portion, they have um I'm probably going to say this wrong, too. The Hisharashi test. It's that stupid circle that has all those dots all over the place and there's like a number behind it. I can't see those. I have a deficiency. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, I'm sitting there and they give me the book and right away I'm like, crap. Here we go. Here we go. So, I just look at it and I'm pretending and I was like, "Buddy, I I know I can't do this." I've done it so many times cuz you for the eye test when you're younger and you're growing up. I've always known that I couldn't do it. So they're like, "Well, that's a disqualifier." What are you talking about? He was like, "Yeah, yeah." He's like, "That's a disqualifier. We can't hire you." I was like, "You're joking, right?" He was like, "Oh, yeah." He's like, "It's fine." He's like, "You can take it to court." He was like, "And you'll win." He was like, I'm like, "Why is it a disqualifier?" I was like, "What am I going to be chasing a bad guy down the street that said I'm in a red and green polkadotted suit with a number behind it and that's the only way I'm going to describe him?" like I was like, "What are we talking about?" So, let's talk about color blindness for a second. Yeah. So, it's just with when you put like you can see color. It's just when they throw other stuff with it is what messes. So, it's it's uh it's mostly like colors that are pretty similar. Like I can see that your shirt's blue, right? But like black, navy blue, red, green, colors that are very similar. I can't tell the difference. Like there's plenty of times you had me at at black and navy blue, but then you said red and green. Yeah. It just it just all like bumbles together or like grays or something. There's there's plenty of times I'll pick something up and I'll I'll say to my wife like, "Oh, look at this gray shirt." Is it's not great. Like is what attracted you to law enforcement the fact that you get to wear a uniform and they tell you what to wear? So you're not just always wearing mismatched clothes? Oh, no. Cuz I love clothes. I mean I mean I know what color they are but I love I like this. I have no idea what color is I mean I just walk in I see the model. I'm like yeah that's what I want. I'm like, I I figure they know what they're doing. Just don't tell what color it is. Um, so all right. So they're like, this qualifies you, but not really because you go fight it. Why would you want to do that? That that's what I said. And at at that time, I was I was already living down here and I was actually in the academy on the east coast of Florida. I went to the academy in Palm Beach County. So at that point, I just kind of forget it. Yeah. I said, forget it. I'm like, I'm not wasting my time. How did you end up down here? There were a few things between high school and uh Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, how'd I end up done here? So, I was I used to build houses for a living and back then that was when um, one of the depressions happened. I guess you can say recession. Recession. Depression. See, they kind of go together. It's all the same. It's bad. We know it's bad. Yeah. I don't I don't speak English right now. The bubble burst when people were poor. Yeah. Got it. Got it. So, nobody was building houses at that point, right? I had some family friends that we grew up with that lived down here over on the East Coast. And I went down on a vacation cuz I had nothing to do. And while I was down there, they lied to me. They were like, "Oh, you just moved down to Florida. There's so much work down here. You can find a job. You can do so much." And I was like, "Yeah." I was like, "Let's do that." So, at that point, I had nothing going on. Wasn't married, no kids, nothing holding me back. And I just said, "Screw it. Let's just try So I I flew back home, packed up my truck, and just drove down here and just kind of winged it. Yeah. Well, it all worked out in the end. I mean, it was it was definitely scary doing it, especially at at that age. I think it was maybe early mid20s at that point. So, yeah, moved down to the East Coast and the rest is history at that point. Yeah. So, then you start applying for jobs down there. Is that Yeah. So, um, when I first moved down here, uh, B's was a gym, Bal Total Fitness, and I got a job as a personal trainer there. Okay. And I started working there and made absolutely no money. No money. Like, yeah, I looked the part, but I didn't know what I was doing. I don't That might be why. Yeah, probably. Probably. Like, I don't know how to help you out. You suck. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, clearly you need help, but I don't know how to help you. Yeah. just just lift weights. I don't know. Do something. So, but but you kept, you know, your eye on the law enforcement piece though while you're down there. Yeah. Yeah. And then living down here, I found out that you could um put yourself through the academy. So, that's what I did. I end up putting myself through the academy. And um once I was done with the academy, I just kind of started shooting my applications everywhere. And at that point, too, the same thing. Nobody was really hiring. Um Palm Beach County, they wanted me to work for them, but they wanted me to work as a reservist. and in your 20s. I'm like, "You're out of your mind." I'm like, "You want me to do the job for free?" And they're like, "Well, that's that's the only way you can get hired with us." I was like, "Well, you can pound sand because Yeah, I'm not doing that. You can work here, but you can't make any money. Risk your life, but I'm already reserved." Is that okay? Pretty much. Pretty much. So, how did how did you end up over here? Um, yeah. I I think at that point I was probably just going online and looking up every single agency in Florida and just seeing who was hiring and I even went to um like the panhandle. I went up there and and applied for a job. I went to aa I just went all over the place. Were you partial to sheriff's offices or you just whatever? I mean anybody that was hiring. No. Yeah. At that point I was just trying to get a job. Yeah. To be honest with you. Anything. Yeah. And I ended up getting um the phone call over here and me and um Yuriel Mada who used to work here, we actually went to the academy together and uh Philip Pion exact. He Okay. Yeah. We were all on the east coast. Interesting. Yep. We all went to the academy on the east coast and somehow we all got hired together. We were all in the same class. So, how was the academy for you? Did you Was it what you expected? Were you prepared? The academy was good. I mean, physically I was prepared because I've always kind of made sure that I've kept myself in in shape, hence the personal trainer at Valley. I was really good at it. Right. Right. Um, so yeah, the the physical aspect wasn't a a big deal. I think it was more the same thing that was harder for me to grasp because um I have like a curse and a gift. Things just kind of come out of my mouth and then I think about it afterwards. Yeah. So I say a lot of things. So like do being in the academy was the same thing because there was times where like if you're good they make you like the class leader and then when you're class leader you're like well I'm the boss right and then you realize you can't say things being a boss is this going to be a recurrent theme throughout this podcast and throughout your career so were you the class leader? I was. Okay. I was. So it worked out. Yeah. Yeah worked out. Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, that was probably the the the only time in my life I actually semi-enjoyed running. I hate running, which is amazing because I have to run every day for a living now, but I hate it. Like, I just want nothing to do with running. And you have to run every singlewhere. I pro I I probably I lost so much weight during that academy just from running non-stop. What was the like were you did you get did you get hired here before you completed the academy or you were done with the academy and then just kind of Yeah, I was done. Okay. Yeah. So then you get the call here, you come do whatever you got to do and you're good to go. Pack up your stuff and come over here pretty much. And they don't care that you're color blind here. I don't think so. Maybe they don't know. They Well, they didn't know. Now they know. So way to go, Laura. Sorry. We're just going to blame it on Laura. Even though we talked because they got me fired. That was the last thing I thought you were going to be fired for. Me, too. And I have a list of so many other. All right. So, what what year is this, by the way? Where we at here when you Oh man, I'm going to have to do math now. Like 2012? Well, I got hired here in 2011, I think it was. Okay. So, yeah, probably 2010ish 10ish. Okay. Yeah. So, um you get started here FTO. How's that go? Uh FTO was good. I was I was fortunate. I had I had some good good FTO's. I didn't have anything crazy. I mean, obviously you hear all the horror stories, but realistically the horror stories are just because you have FTO's that care and you have recruits that don't, right? So, I think that's kind of like what the misconception is when you have someone that's actually pushing you. And I think that's something that certain people have like and I think that goes back to the same thing with like kind of almost the sports background or the military background, anything in that sense like you you're okay with someone telling you what to do or how to do it because you know it's going to make you better. And a lot of people don't do well with that with someone telling them how to do something because they think they already know what they're doing. So, but you're right. It's the mentality piece. Yeah, pretty much. So, any any I you crashed a lot of stuff. I did. I did. Was that while you were still on FTO when you got out? Like uh No, I I don't think I crashed at all during FTO. Okay. It was It was for sure once I was by myself. You can't leave us hanging, Justin. Do tell. Oh, so I so one of them I was when I was brand new I was sitting at home and uh Russ Aken he was my corporal at the time and he called me on the phone and it was late. He was like, "Hey, is there any way you can come in and do some overtime?" And I was like at that point I'm brand new. I was like, "Yeah, absolutely. I'll come in." And he had me on Indian Rocks Beach. So I'm just driving on um Indian Rocks Beach and I'm just going and of course I'm new. So I'm looking for everything all over the place. Like there's got to be a bad guy out here on the beach. There's really not on the beach. Um, so I look over to the right and I thought I saw like some shadow just running and I was like, "Oh, I got him." Cuz that's PC right there. Oh, right there. All all day long running. Yeah. I was like, "I got that guy." So, I put my uh Crown Vic in reverse and just floored it and I drove right into the Indian Rocks Beach sign and crashed the crap out of that thing and the shadow got away. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That that bad guy got away. Was just laughing as he It was his lucky day. It was probably to somebody on a run because that's what you do. Probably especially on the beach. Yeah. Yeah. So then that phone call was fun saying, "Hey, since you had me come in for overtime, I made some more work for you. I just crashed the car." Yeah. Dang. Uh any memorable first calls or experiences as brand new deputy Fineberg? Yeah. I mean, I have more crashes. Those are memorable. Okay. Well, more crashes then. So, I w I remember it was it was a night that it it was a dark rainy night. There we go. Yeah. Got to set the mood. And there was a stabbing legitimate stabbing over in um 21's area off of Starky Starky Road and I'm just flying. I'm like, I got to get there because I was so close. I was on Park Boulevard and there was I think it was um Wayne Zillinsky. He was first on scene. So, he's getting on the radio putting everything out and I'm like, I got to get there. And I'm just hauling butt just driving on Park Boulevard in my Crown Vic and I just hydroplane and I just crashed into the curb and I spun around, crashed into another curb, spun around, crashed into another curb and then it finally just stopped and I'm just sitting there like, "Holy crap." And I'm looking around and I'm like, "All right, nobody's here." And all Nobody saw that. But they did. They did. Some some civilian drove up next rolled down his window. He was like, "Are you okay?" And I was like, "Yeah." He was like, "That was the coolest thing I've ever seen." I was like, "Shut up. I'm in so much trouble right now." Yeah, pretty much. Well, but no damage, no crash report. I remember that was so long ago. Yeah, I mean, I'm sure I'm sure I messed something up. I probably messed those wheels up in those rims for sure. Banging into those curbs. I could tell you I didn't make it to the call. The What? What if the stabber was that shadow that you missed out on the first time? It's coming back to haunt me forever now. Yeah. Yeah. I'll get you one day. Monday. So, you did SWAT at some point. Yeah, I did. How did you How long were you on before you decided you want to do that and why? So, um, SWAT was something I always wanted to do. It's a It's the same thing. It just goes back to my background. I always I love I love physical stuff. Like, you can throw me in the dirt all day long and I'll just I'll just go. I I'm fine with it. So, I love the physical aspect of it, but I also like the fact that it's um it's like the elite the elite of the elite. The elite of the elite. That sounded good. No, that was all right. Second time. The second time it sounded better. We'll fix it. Take three. No, no, just just leave. What was it? What was it? Everybody knows I can't talk. Um, so yeah. So, it's something I always wanted to do and I forget how many years on at that point because things were different back then, how long you had to be here before you could get into stuff. But yeah, it was something I always wanted to do. So, I tried out. Um, the try was good. I liked it. I I enjoyed being on SWAT. SWAT was a huge thing for me because it gives you that confidence. It teaches you how to be a much better cop, a better person in general, stuff like that. So, I mean, the the training aspect that you get from it is is unbeatable in that sense. It's it's I I think worth it regardless. Oh, for sure. 100%. 100%. It's always been part-time, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, for our listeners, uh some agencies do have full-time SWAT teams. We do not here. So, it's a we have talked all about it with Sergeant Debold, but uh yeah, you it's another assignment. And so you can be assigned pretty much anywhere in the agency to be a member of the SWAT team. Yep. But it was good though. I mean the same thing you make lifelong friendships, lifelong stories. Lifelong nicknames. Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. My my nickname. I I one of your nicknames. I know. I have so many different nicknames. I mean it's either Jersey Boston. Snookie is the one that stuck the most though, which is always fun when I'm walking down the hall and you'll see someone like Greg Danzik or Melvin Jackson who have these bars on their shoulders and they're like Snookie. Everybody's like, "What the hell is Snookie?" How does one How does one obtain that nickname? Uh, so I think it was during our swap banquet. I was up there talking and I think Pione actually called me Snookie out of the blue cuz that was when Jersey Shore was kind of just starting and I was so mad. I was like, "How dare you call me Snookie?" I was like, "I'm Pauly D if anything, but Snookie stop." So, I I I tried my hardest to reverse it and be like, "You're Snookie. How dare you call me that?" And it just didn't work. At that point, I was I was I was Snookie. So, it it's been that way forever now, which which like I said, it's hilarious because we're such a new agency now. And like I said, someone will yell that name out and people just looking like, "What? What are you talking about?" So, it it's it's fun. I I enjoy it. I've embraced it at this point. Yeah. Well, you almost have to. You got Captain's Calling Snookie. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Can't tell him. Be like, "You better watch your mouth, boy." What uh any memor memorable call outs when you were on SWAT? We did have a a a search warrant for a murder victim. Not murder victim. See, I told her I can't speak English. A murder suspect. How dare that victim die. Right. They're in trouble now. Ridiculous. Found him. He's not moving. Yeah. Yeah. We had one in Clear Water. That was good. That was That was actually my first real search warrant that I ever did with SWAT. So, yeah, that one's memorable. What happened? I don't know. They kicked in the door and got the bad guy. I was new. I was like on perimeter just sitting there like this. I can't believe I'm here. We're doing We're doing That's hilarious. Um was uh so you did it for five years? Yes. Yeah. And then just kind of had enough, wanted to move on. No. So, um I would have loved to stay, but at that point I was in K9 and K9 takes a lot. I mean, that's that's definitely something that you have to kind of put everything into that those baskets. And at that point, I had my first daughter and me and my wife, we were working opposite schedules. So, it was just it was virtually impossible. Yeah. It was just too much. A lot of training. A lot of training with K9, too, which we'll get into. So, that's just a lot. Yeah, it was a lot. And then having the fact that you have to be on call and if there's ever calls and stuff like that. It's just so it was a decision I had to make for myself, my family, and K9. Um I would have loved to stay, but like I said, cuz the training aspect, I mean, I still wish I was there because it just you kind of dust those cobwebs off and and kind of keep yourself good in that sense, but and like you said, it keeps you sharp, makes you better at everything. Yeah. But it it was good for what it lasted. Like I said, I don't regret it all. I had a lot of fun. I enjoyed it. Yeah. Yeah. So K9, yeah, what we're here to talk about because everybody loves K9. Was that something you always wanted to do? Why why K9? Um, it it was I think it's the same aspect because you look at SWAT and you look at K9 and I mean they're both elite in that sense. I mean, it's like the cream of the crop and you're you're just out there legitimately catching bad guys. So for me, it's something I always wanted. But um the moment that it really really settled in and I told him this story because obviously I remember he doesn't cuz he didn't know who the hell I was back then. But I was in FTO and Alan Clark was my FTO. We were working Duneden and there was a burglary that came out. So like usual we just go set a perimeter do the thing that patrol does and Matt Aken was out tracking. So he caught the guy. Matt Matt was a phenomenal handler. So, and when we're done, we all go back to where we are and Matt's sitting there and he's got his Crown Vic and he's just leaned up against the Crown Vic and he's got one leg kind of like posted up on the back and his arms are folded just looking like the baddest mother you've ever seen. And I just looked at him. I was like, that's who I want to be. I want to be that guy. Yeah. Yeah. That's like that's So, that was my moment later when I saw that. I was like, oo is so cinematic. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Did he have like a fog machine and everything? I wish I wish I wish. Yeah, I wish it was like that dark dark rainy night again. The water was just trickling down his face and you're just like and you just crash your way to the scene. Oh yeah, for sure. I'd crash into everything. So what So about that specifically though, that's like a you know cuz you're already out there, you're a cop, you're you're doing the job, but like what it is what is it about K9 that makes it appealing? So I I because other people can't do that. Probably. Yeah, you're right. Like this the same thing. doing something that not everybody can do is a a big aspect of it, but I think I figured it out later once I actually got to K9 why I love this so much. Um, it sounds weird, but it's like instant gratification, right? So, for me, being able to do this job, if someone commits a crime and they take off running at that point, I mean, patrol will try to find them, but they're probably not going to find them because they're usually hiding or they just keep on running. A detective is not going to be able to come out and find that person. So, for me, being able to show up, talk to that victim, ask them what happened, and then get my dog out, and being able to track from point A to point B and be able to catch that bad guy and be able to go back to that victim and say, "We did that for you." Like, "We were able to find that person and put them in jail for you." Mhm. That's I mean I I don't know personally because I haven't been in that situation, but I can only imagine it's got to be such a huge weight lifted off of them in that sense to know that now they can go to bed at night and just know that that person is still not out there and possibly coming back to cause more damage. So that right there is why time and time again I will continue to do this job for as long as I can because for me it feels like we're actually really making a difference in that sense. I mean, we all get into this profession to try to make a difference, but I genuinely get to. So, I I love it. I love that aspect of it. And now, so having been through SWAT tryyous, oh yeah, that big debate everybody always wants to know. How how does K9 tryyous compare? So, they're both very physical, but I feel like you're kind of in control of both when it comes to your destiny in that sense. But for SWAT, I mean, it's all physical and then a lot of shooting. So, you can either be in shape or you're not. You can practice to shoot or you cannot. So, I mean, you you show up and you kind of it it's it's yours to lose in that sense for SWAT. For K9, it's different because it's very physical, but we also throw a dog in the mix and you really have no control over that because that dog is probably not going to listen to you. Um, it's a lot different too because now you have a big group of people that are sitting there looking at you laughing because the dog does something silly and you mess up. So, it's a lot more mental on that side as well for the K9 triout. So, I think it's a combination of physical and mental which is very very draining. By the time you're done with our triyout, you're just smoked. You're wiped out and and you're Sorry. Go ahead, Laura. I was going to say for the mental part, you can you think you can prepare for that, but you never know how you're going to react until you're there. You know, you think you're good with dogs until the dog bites you. Oh, for sure. you think you can handle. And that's the thing, there's so many people out there right now that want to come to K9 and they do a great job of reaching out to us and helping us out and train and stuff like that. And we'll try to get them prepared and get them ready. But come game day, it it's completely different. I mean, because for us it's the same thing. Like we say it all the time, everything goes right down the lead. So if I'm mad, if I'm angry or if I'm stressed out about a call that just happened or I'm just thinking about all this other stuff and I go to get my dog out, my dog's looking at me like, I don't know who you are, but this isn't what we do. and it just messes everything up. So now you take someone that's never worked with a dog and give them that dog and then say, "Hey, go do this." And they're like, "What are you talking about?" So I'm sure they're nervous, sweating. Yeah. But so then the dog's looking at that person like, "First of I don't know who you are, right? And you smell bad, so I don't I don't want to I don't want to listen to you at all." So So let's let's back up a second. So, just talk through um the K9 try out a little bit because it is the physical side and then just to be clear like they just throw you in there with some other handler's dog just to see how you react to the dog or maybe the dog is evaluating you. Who knows? Yeah. A little bit of both. So, it starts off they'll they go to we usually use um Admiral Farragate and they'll do a swim test. They'll do the the mile and a half run and then they'll float or tread water for a certain amount of time. From there, they come back to the kennels and that's when everything else kind of starts. We kind of walk them through everything, show them what they're going to do, and then we take them one by one. We'll have them do some PT. So, they'll kind of run around our facility, come to like the hundred yard line. We'll have them do um push-ups, flutter kicks, mountain climbers, um something else, some exercises just to kind of get the blood flowing and kind of warm them up. And then from there, they run over. They jump over a concrete wall where the dumpsters are. Then they'll jump over a fence. Then they jump over another fence and then they'll run to a cruiser and we'll let them sit in the cruiser for 2 minutes kind of catch their breath, get some water if they want and then we'll dispatch them to a call. So they have to get on the radio and respond as if they're a K9 handler asking the proper questions and stuff like that. And then from there they jump out of the car and then they start running again and they'll jump over another concrete wall. They go on the back side of the BMS. They go up and over the BMS a bunch of times, go through some tunnels. They do like a low crawl. It's it's it's physical. It's a lot, but it's maybe 5 10 minutes of your life. So that's what I mean. It's like the same thing. If you're mentally prepared for it, you should be able to get through it and you should be okay. After that, we kind of give everybody a break and then we bring the dogs in. So we'll have them do some agility. We have at the compound where we have all of our jumps and and stuff like that. So we'll to actually have the person trying out run the dog, see if they can. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. We'll we'll bring one of the dogs out. We'll explain to them what to do and then we just give them the dog and we're like, "Here you go. Have at it." So then they have to get the dog to do the obstacles that we're telling them to do, whether it's jumping over the hurdles, crawling over a catwalk, doing stuff like that. So that's when it always gets fun because we said the dogs aren't going to listen and so you're testing their like temperament at that point. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. It's it's really more so we could see how they react with a dog that doesn't listen to them. We want to see if they're going to get frustrated, if they're going to get angry, if they're going to yell at the dog, or if they're going to try to figure out different avenues to get the dog to do what they're asking them to do. Right? they're going to think outside of the box and do something along that line. So, we do that. We'll have them heal, which again, it goes to show who's afraid of the dogs because we've had people that have been out there and the arm is completely extended out and they're holding the leash as tight as possible and just walking because then you realize you're afraid of the dog. So, it it it it helps us out tremendously in that sense where we see things like that and then they take a bite from the dog. So, that's also good too where we can see if they actually okay with taking the bite with the dog with a sleeve. Yeah. They got Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. With with the sleeve. Um Well, I mean I You're right. You're right. Clarify. So they do all that kind of stuff and then from there we go up to Chi-Chi Rodriguez and we put them in the jungle which we found out there are jungles in Penelis County. So that's a little inside joke in our unit because I was tracking one day in in Seminal and I was in the jungle. It was very thick and they got on the radio and asked me if I'm okay and I was so frustrated. I was like, "Yeah, give me a second. I'm on the jungle." And I said this on the radio and of course everybody's like the jungle. What? What are you talking? We're in Penel County. There's no jungles. But then we found out this was probably like a couple months ago. Paul Martin went to Panama and they have jungles out there. So we asked one of the guys that live out there. What's the difference between a jungle and a forest? And he's like, "Well, they're both densely populated, but a forest you can navigate through. In a jungle, you can't." I was like, "You're in the jungle. I'm in the jungle." You're right. So now I'm just going to start saying it all the time. Yeah. I mean, now that it's been Yeah. Now that it's been validated by one random guy in one random guy. Yeah. Good enough. I mean, I could look it up in the dictionary, but why would I do that? I get lost in general. I mean, whether I'm in the jungle or not. I mean, there's been times I'm out tracking and I'm like, "All right, we're northbound." And I'm calling out streets and they're like, "Where are you?" And I'm like giving out the streets and I start to get mad. And they're like, "You're not going north. You're going south." And I was like, "All right, well then I'm going south." Oh, yeah. I'm going south. Yeah. That's another dog. That's another one. My nicknames is Mellin because I never know where I'm going. No way. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, not super important then to be in K9. I mean it it is a tracker on you and a tracker on your dog. Yeah. Yeah. Well, now that we have that, now that we have the GPS, it it probably makes it much better for people watching when I call it the wrong direction like, "Ah, he's an idiot. Stop asking me rhetorical questions. You know where I am." Um, so, so the this and what what you described though leading is just the try out. That is not even here's your dog and now we're going through canine school. So, you're one of the trainers for K9 school. Yes, sir. Um, so just talk us through that a little bit and and what that I mean because you've been through it now twice. Yeah. Um, what is what is that like? The same thing. It is it's so mentally tasking honestly. It cuz cuz again if you come into this job you have to know it's physical. Honestly like for someone to want to be in K9 and try out for K9. It's not like they haven't been sitting on the sidelines and see what we do and hear what we do so they know it's physical. So you should be physically prepared to actually go through K9 school. It is such a mental um mind mess up because again you have this animal that doesn't speak English that doesn't know you that has just came from Europe to um our vendor over here and they did some training and then they came from there and they came to our kennels and then from our kennels and they go to your house or the dog is so upside down at that point they don't know what's going on and now you're trying to tell the dog to do something and the dog's like I don't know what you're doing. So it it's such a a mental aspect in that sense because you could be doing everything perfect one day and then the next day everything just goes to crap. Yeah. Nothing works. Yeah. Or from like the trainers aspect because we're on the outside looking at it. So I'll tell you to do something today and then tomorrow like don't do that. Do this. I'm like you just told me to do it this way. I'm like I know but now listen to me. I don't want you to do it this way. So yeah it's it's very very mentally draining in that sense. It's a lot going through K9 school. You have to have a very good support system at home and even in the unit. It's because it is it's it's cuz even after K9 school, I mean, this whole job is mental. I mean, you catch somebody one day and the next day you're a loser and you don't catch anybody. So, it's just you you have to be such a bipolar person in that sense. So, you have to be able to just kind of like let things go and not let it dwell. So, yeah, K9 school is very difficult in that sense because it's very very mental and it's 15 weeks. Uh yeah, four four months. Okay. Yeah. 16 16 weeks. Yeah. And um and then we run the K9 school for most of the agencies in the county with the exception of St. Pete, right? Yeah, St. Pete does their own, but Tarpon comes to us, Penelis Park comes to us, Largo comes to us, Clearwater comes to us, and we've got some we've got a a school coming up, right? We do. Yeah, we have trouts coming up. How many dogs we got for that one? So, Penelis Park actually has three that they're putting through. And John Har, he's getting a new pup. Uh Wyth Whitehurst, he's getting a new pup. And then we're replacing a open spot that we have. So, as of right now, it should be a six dog school. So, yeah. How do you Which I'm kind of I'm glad it's going to be now because all the schools I've taught lately have been in the middle of the summer and is miserable. So, I'm just so excited. I mean, May isn't great. I know. But I'm just so excited. It's not August. Yeah. To see somebody else in that situation. Like, sucks. I can sit on the sidelines and be like, how do you I'm not sure exactly how to phrase it, but how do you figure out how to how a dog thinks? Because the dogs, they want to do their job. They know that you want something of them, and they're very very eager to do whatever it is that you want them to do. And and they're doing the thing that they think. They they think that they understand what you want whenever they do something probably. Yeah. So, how do you figure out how how they think and what like what mistake they're making in their head when they're trying to fulfill your orders and fulfill your wishes but not doing the right thing? How how do you get inside a dog's head? So, it it is it's difficult especially depending on the dog. I mean, some of these dogs, their drive is just so out of control that it clouds their judgment. I mean, like my dog now, Bo, he's nuts. I mean, he's such a good dog, but like when he sees that toy, his eyes bug out of his head and he's just like he can't stop shaking. He's like, "Give it to me. Give it to me. To me, it's just it's wild to see. So, that's a lot harder than say like a softer dog, but really it's it's it's no different than human beings, right? I mean, we have essentials that we need to survive. You need air, you need water, you need food. I mean, there's those type of aspects. So, if you take something away, you'll do anything for it, right? I mean, even a human being, if I was like, I'm not going to feed you or give you any water unless you do this, you might be like, yeah, pounce in. But at some point you'll be like, "All right, I need that water. I need that food." And it's the same thing with the dog. I mean, we use the food as a reward system. So, it's a lot easier for them to understand you're getting fed through me. So, until you do what I ask you to do, you're not getting food. So, it's it's one of those type of things where and the dogs are so smart that once they realize that and they pick it up, it just goes so much faster. So, it's it's really all just feeding them, building that bond with the dog and and getting the dog to trust you and understand that I'm here to help you. I'm not here to hurt you. I'm going to feed you. Just just do what I'm asking you to do in that sense. What about the times when they're trying though? Like, I I know you want me to track somebody. I'm tracking the thing I think you want me to track. Hey, look, I found it, but he's tracking, you know, your your other handler that's behind you or something where they're they they understand kind of the assignment, but they're confused about something. How do you how do you work out those little kinks in the training? So, trial and error maybe. Kind of pretty much. I mean, we have such a a regiment of how we do things like we started off so little and again we use food for everything. So, even with tracking, we put the food in the grass and it just shows the dog, put your nose down and you'll get fed. But it's also incorporating the odor. So, like we'll walk with the like like a straight line track, let's say. And as we're walking, we'll put a bunch of pieces of food down the whole entire time. And then we'll bring the dog out. We'll give them the command seek track. And we always say that every single time, right? So it becomes kind of like a cue. There's certain words that we say that's a cue and eventually they'll put their nose down. And then they're pairing the food with the odor. So it's like they're getting reward with what they're doing and they don't even realize it already. They're smelling the odor. They're smelling the crust crushed vegetation in the grass and they're also getting rewarded because they're getting fed. So, we start that off so slow and that's such a long process that by the time we take the food out of it, they understand that human odor equals reward because like you're saying, right, at the end of the day, they're wild animals and they know how to track in general because they have to in order to find food. So, it's kind of like you're saying, taking it away, don't track the rabbit. I need you to track this person. So, it's just repetition over and over and over and over again. And then the reward system, it's the same thing. showing them that you're either going to get food when you put your nose on a track or there's a man at the end with a tug. Yeah. So, it's just showing them that everything realistically everything the dog does in their mind is a game. Yeah. They think it's fun fun fun fun. So, it's it's the same thing even with us. Like, we have to act like silly goosees all the time. That's probably the hardest thing too for grown men or women to come into this profession and tell them like, I need you to be a goofball. Like, I need you to get down on the ground, roll around like a kid, just act like a goofball. And a lot of times that's hard, especially with like macho men. Like, yeah, right. I ain't doing that. Like, you will or you ain't gonna make it. Um, so it's really doing that, showing the dog that you're pleasing me, right? Like you were kind of saying, like, if the dog does something great, I'm going to act all crazy. I'm going to act silly. I'm going to scream. I'm going to yell. I'm going to run around. And the dog's like, "Oh my god, what did I do? What did I do? I'm going to do it again." Because they want attention and affection just like we do. So, it's like showing them that is how we teach them. like if you continue to do this, you're going to continue to get rewards, you're going to get pets, you're going to get love, you're going to get all these things. So, it's in that, but if they're messing up, um, we just have to retrain it. I mean, like I I recently had an incident where again because Bo is so smart, he knows where he gets his reward. So, he knows he gets it from usually the other people in our unit because we're laying tracks for each other. So, it got to the point where as if the person that was with me, he's like, "Well, I get my reward for you. Cut out the middleman. Oh yeah, 100%. So like he would start tracking and he would smell odor and he'd be like, "All right." And then he would just circle back to the guy behind me and be like, "Do you have my toy?" So then that that's a problem. So then we have to recreate it and try to get away from that and teach him, "No, no, no. It's not here. It's out there. You keep your nose down and you'll find an even better reward over there as opposed to trying to cheat and just get a toy from this guy." Yeah, pretty much. So, I've always found the whole tracking fee super interesting because the way you kind of explained it was, you know, you're kind of breaking them down to teach them how to do XYZ, but you know, when you show up at a scene after somebody left on foot, like how do you know that he's on the right track track? Like, yeah. So, I mean, I know it's like typically the freshest for you mentioned the broken vegetation piece, but they're also smelling the human odor. So, how do you I've literally seen it like we've watched body cams. We've seen clips of it where the dog's like kind of then you know like even I know like okay that dog's on something but like how do you know it's the right one? You really don't. I mean sometimes I mean honestly it really depends on the time of day like if it's 3:00 in the morning and someone broke into a vehicle and took off running. I highly doubt there's anybody else. I mean sometimes there's people out walking around but for the most part whichever odor I find first is probably that bad guy. But but either way, we're going to go with it no matter what. I mean, there's times where we are tracking and we'll say like, "Listen, I'm on something. I don't know what it is. I'm just going to go with it." So, if if he shows me that he has tracking behavior, I'm going to go with it. But for the most part, um we can tell the difference because there's a difference in say somebody taking like a leisure walk or jog and then that fear odor. The dogs are so much more intense when it comes to that. Like if you just get out and you're just the same thing with us, right? Like if somebody kind of walks out of track for us, the dog will track. But then when the dog's tracking a legitimate track and it's an actual say bad guy, everything about them is different, right? Their posture is a little bit different. They're more intense. Like they're really really pulling. You can definitely tell the difference between that kind of odor once the dog kind of figures it out after they've say caught somebody in real life. Then they realize like, okay, that's the odor that I want. That's the reward I want. You can kind of tell the difference. You can smell the fear. Yes. So you can never really get that in training until they get out there and get their first bad guy. And and that's honestly the hardest thing for new handlers and new dogs because you'll go through school and your dog's tracking phenomena. You're like, "Oh, I'm going to catch everybody." And then you get out and the dog smells the fear odor for the first time and the dog's like, "What is that?" Because they're so used to something else. So it's like it kind of takes them a little bit. That's why it it it's a process. It it takes some time for the handler and the dog to really kind of connect in that sense and kind of figure it out. And even for the dog because they know what they're doing, but again, it's still brand new. The picture's brand new, right? It's a different odor. It's a different environment. Dad or mom is completely different because now my nerves are going crazy because on a training track you're like whatever. I got this. And all of a sudden now it's a legitimate call. You have all your peers listening. Yeah. Like everything's going on. And again, right, it's like I'm the end all beall. If I don't catch this guy, it's likew um and if you catch him, you're a hero. So that's very difficult for a lot of new handlers to be able to sit there and kind of be able to grasp that and understand like you have to try you have to keep your nerves in check in in in in that sense. So it's a lot. Yeah. When you train, do you only train with other law enforcement? Do they ever queue in on just like law enforcement specific smells like you know gunpowder break free things like that that you're going to have on on you or do you ever bring civilians in for them to smell regular folk? So, not so much that we bring civilians in, but a lot of times what we do because like you said, it's mostly other law enforcement people. So, like say if I'm just kind of standing around and and I've done this before, if I see somebody just walking down the street and they're just going for a stroll, be like, "Hey, can you do me a favor? Can you just take take this tug toy and just go for a walk and just drop it wherever you want to drop it?" I promise you won't get bitten. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then I'll wait a little bit and I'll get my dog out and I'll track that person and find the toy at the end. So, it's just a little trick that we can do sometimes along those lines. Yeah. So, when uh when Bo's a good boy, what do you tell him? What does he hear? What's your phrase voice? Uh so, that's why I say I have so many so many nicknames. It's Tigger from Winnie the Pooh. And it just it just happened. I don't know how it happened because you're just sitting there and again it's like, well, you got to be silly and I'm going to try to do it now. That's what it was. So, like when I had Ronin and I'm sitting there and he did something good, I was like, "Gab boy, good boy." And it just stuck. It just stuck. It just stuck. So, and the the crazy thing is too is so like I was called Tiger because of my voice, but Ronan even to this day as retired. Yeah. When he gets excited, he goes up on his back, hind legs, and he jumps straight up in the deck. Like, oh yeah. It's so weird. So, like the same thing. So, I get all crazy and I'm like that and then Ron is jumping up and down like Tiger. So, the combination of both of us. Yeah, where we're where Winnie Winnie the Poo for sure. So So back back up. Let's back up to your first Doug. Let's back up to Ronin. So you you go through the trials and tribulations because I imagine you've described all this because you've been through it obviously. So what was did you have like a memorable first catch? Like what was that like? We did. So, our first catch was a stolen vehicle and they ended up I don't I don't remember if they crashed or if they just bailed, but it was uh 611 and it's not Boot Ranch. 611 and like Tampa area, kind of like that industrial area right there, right where it kind of splits and they bailed. So, I show up and Matt Aken was with me. So, I get Ronin out and we hit that track in the grass and we just start going. And at that point, I'm like in heaven just running. And we're tracking. when we get through that industrial area and at that point we had a second sighting for another subject. So Matt left, he went and got Bosow and started tracking that person. So at that point I'm by myself and I have no clue what the hell I'm doing. So I'm just trying to figure it out and just going around and everybody's like just trust your dog. I was like I don't trust him yet. Easier said than done. Yeah. Um but somehow he he knew what he was doing. So he was able to kind of like track through that industrial area and we ended up finding the kid hiding in some bushes. So we that was our first catch and I for sure got on the radio and screamed like a big girl. I I can't help it. I'm like it it's this it's so exciting for me. The same thing like I I I purposely scream like a girl. I remember there was we had a call on the same thing on the beach. There was a stolen vehicle. They bailed. They ran to the beach and Brad Buyers gets out and he tracks to Troy and we were out for probably an hour running around in the sand just going and going and going. We couldn't find him. So then Wyth Whitehurst gets out with Devon tracking the same thing for like an hour just running around and meanwhile I'm back up the whole time. So I've just been running the whole time just miserable without your dog. Yeah, without the dog. Um the sun's coming up now and like we said it's on the beach. People are starting to come out everywhere. So at that point I was like you know what? Let me just get Ronin out and just see what we can do. And we just started working north. We start going through underneath like the parking garage and we end up finding the kid hiding underneath the vehicle and we're probably like three hours into it at that point and I was so excited I purposely hit my radio and I was like I did a I did a Rick Flare moment so bad. So bad. Brad looks at me. He's like, "What the hell is wrong with you?" I was like, "You kidding me?" I was like, "This long?" I was like, "And we still found that dude." I was like, "Everybody needed to know how excited I was." I was like, "I made sure everybody knew it." You had another uh catch with Ronan. Um was like a uh a prisoner a handcuff guy that got away. Oh yes. Yes. That was a good one. I remember hearing about that. That was a good one. So I was actually all the way in South St. Pete that day with uh VOU. We were looking for a wanted subject and I hear something on the radio and I'm not even sure what it was, but I knew they asked for a dog. So I'm like, "All right, I gotta go." So, I just start driving and I'm driving north and again I'm not really sure what it is and then I start to realize that it was an escape prisoner. So, we get there. It was off East Lake Road over by that Publix I think it's like Ridgemore area. And so, somebody that escaped from a transport van or whatever. No. Yeah. Yeah. This dude was handcuffed. He got away and ran in handcuffs. He was still handcuffed and just took off running. So, at that point, um, Sergeant Killian, he gets called out. So, he meets up with me and we start tracking. And so we're tracking through the apartment complex. We actually come out to the backside of Publix and now it's just that whole wooded area where all those swamps are. So at that point I'm like I'm just going to do a pointto-oint. It's basically just working the dog in the wooded area looking for the head snap for him to go in where where the bad guy went in. So I do the pointtooint. Ronin goes into the woods and now me and Mike are in the swamp. The water is probably like mid thigh. Ronan's not even tracking. He's just swimming. Just going going and we're just we're just going through the water. And as we get probably mid into the swamp, we can't see anything. There's nobody around, but all of a sudden out of nowhere, Ronin just dives under the water and bites the dude. Oh yeah. This dude saw us obviously before we saw them and he held his breath and just went completely underwater like the predator. Oh yeah. He was Arnold Schwarzenegger just underneath there just hiding. That's incredible. He just went he bit him underwater. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that that that was awesome. And then of course too, like the same thing. I was so excited. We get out of the swamp and there's all these people here and of course I'm like, who wants to come to K9? And I'm all excited. Meanwhile, I have this massive mud star just sitting there on the top of my head, just sitting there on my face as I'm just sitting there talking trash to everybody like, "Yeah." And they're like, "You look like a clown." It's exciting though. Yeah. So that's dark. Like you don't know what's in that water. Forget that. No way. Yeah. And and for me it's um growing up in the city it's amazing. I will go into the jungles all day long and hunt a human being. I mean that's why it's funny. I when people ask me what I do for a living I tell people I'm the predator. We hunt we hunt human beings for a living. I mean legitimately I'll do that all day long. I don't fear it. Gators, snakes, spiders. Oh no. I will scream like a girl and run the other way. But you have to run through so many spiders. I know. Trust me. Oh, trust me. We do. I close my eyes. Oh, it's not there. It's not there. There's one there. It's not crawling down. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Like there was one time um I was tracking and I mean this spiderweb was massive and I just had to just eat it and I'm just going because at that point you can't do anything. The dog's pulling you so I just ate it. It's all in my face. It's everywhere. Um if it reassures you at all, none of the spiders that make webs in Florida are venomous. I don't care. I don't like them. You're going to tell me a snake. All the snakes aren't venomous either. I don't want to touch them. I just Yeah. I don't want anything to do with it. And you know, like if you run through a spiderweb and it's like, whoa. Like I was a big ass spider that made that one. Trust me. And that's the problem. Like when it gets that close and you see it, it's right in front of your eye and you're like, that's big. Yeah. But luckily it didn't get me and it flicked up in the air and it ended up going on the guy behind me. Perfect. So like, okay. 45 minutes later, I get a phone call and he was like, I got out of my truck. He was like, and that spider crawled out of my vest. I was like, yes. Nope. Dang. Oh, nope. Yeah. How do you not translate that down to your dog though when like the fear like going through cuz I would be like squirmy and just Oh yeah. I wouldn't even that one night you went and covered I wouldn't even do that. Well, you did when you covered K9. Well, they were all they were all in front of me so they don't matter. Yeah. I mean I'm glad that she was there because if anything happened I just push her aside. I hear something. I'm like sorry Ashie. Yeah. I'm gonna start again too. I'm going to go I'm the next try out. I'm doing it again. Um then you had um there was one where um Ronan got injured his paw or something. Yeah, that was a good that was a good catch. So we had um he was a sexual predator and he ended up breaking into a home. Uh the woman woke up so he took off running. It was down in uh Leilman area. So I get there with Ron and we start tracking and we end up tracking to 275. And those fences are the worst because there's no crossbar. They have like the spikies on top. So, a lot of times we'll try to avoid that. We'll either get another dog on the other side or we'll have to figure out something how to do. But at that point, it was just it was do or die. Like we needed to go. So, Ronin jumps over the fence. We track across 275, both lanes, go back into a wooded area, and we ended up finding this guy. Ronin bites him. And at that point, the fight is on. Like, this dude legitimately wanted to fight. He was like there's sometimes you come across like that 1% like those true true bad guys that don't care if they're going. Yeah. Yeah. Like they want to fight. So we were in a fight. Ronan messed that dude up. He messed him up. Good. Good boy. Do the noise. Do the praise noise. Yeah. So um how how do you how do you fight somebody when your dog is also fighting them? I mean, does your dog pay attention to whose hand is whose when you're Yeah. So, for the for the most part, usually once our dogs lock on, they're there. Like, they won't let go. Um, so for the most part, like you can just punch any place. He's not going to adjust. He won't adjust. He'll stay there. Yeah. He got that guy good. So, luckily, but fight the dog. Yeah. Don't don't fight the dog. Um, but so when it was all said and done, I get him back to the truck and then once everything kind of cools down, I open up the back of the truck to check on him and there was blood everywhere. And at that point, I start checking him out and when I looked at his paw, his pad was actually completely fllayed open. Like just completely like to to the meat. So that's why he was so mad. Yes. Yeah. And so that was that was from him jumping over the fence. But again, that happens. It just it's a testament of how good these dogs are, right? Like how that's what I mean. Yeah. Like that's I mean like they know at the end of the day like they have a job to do and they will like our dogs will jump through fire if we tell them to like we cuz we we teach them that like right we we build them up and tell them like you're invincible. You can do whatever you want as long as you're with me. So he didn't make a sound and then we found it afterwards and then yeah he was out for probably like three months because that cut was so bad. Yeah. Poor guy. Dang. Yeah. It's crazy. Always something. Oh dogs are always getting hurt. People are always getting hurt. Yeah. I mean, somebody accidentrone like you. Oh, I'm I'm so broken. Wait, when was the time you fell into the 7ft hole? I don't remember. Was that is that FTO or So, no. So, that was in K9 school. Okay. So, um 7 foot hole. Yeah. So, Indiana Jones over here. Yeah. Yeah. So, we were in K9 school and we were walking out tracks for each other and we were over by our special ops warehouse and I'm running back from the track and I'm going in the middle of the parking lot and I see this big massive opening and I'm like, "Oh, that's a shortcut. Let me just go." And it is pitch black. I can't see anything. And I'm just running. I'm like, "Yeah, I'm going to get back there real quick." And all of a sudden, out of nowhere, I had a wy coyote moment and I ran off the dock and I just completely ate crap. Like, it just Oh, yeah. I messed myself up. I thought I was going to die. So hovering in the air like probably I probably fell immediately but I felt like I was up there for like 30 seconds just sitting there like looking around like my shadows going to drop my body still be up here. Oh yeah. It was like a loading dock. Oh yeah. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. That would be terrifying in the dark. It was it hurt. And then later we found out that they went back and put up gates. So I I probably changed that for they probably watch it on video. These are these are the Justin gates. I need like baby proof gates everywhere. little baby gates. That's awesome. Uh, so now you have Bo. Yep. And you just graduated with him last year, right? Or Yeah. Yeah. I believe this this June will technically be two years. Okay. Since starting school. Yeah. From starting school. Yeah. What's his personal personality like compared to Ronan? Oh, he's crazy. He is. He is. Is he still a leg humper? No, I know he I know he was he was like wrestling. He wasn't a Yeah, right. Yeah, he likes to jump on people. He's a He's a very friendly dog, but very Is that like adding insult to injury if he's biting you and humping you and you're a bad guy? Bad for that person, not for me. I mean, I hope I get on body camera. Send it to us if you do. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, um it it's it's funny in in the beginning stages they were both kind of similar because they were both a little squirrely. So Ronin was um also called reckless Ronin when he was younger because he the same thing. He would just do crazy stuff. Like we we would have him at the top of the catwalk and instead of walking down like a normal dog would, he would just sit there and look and just jump completely off and that's you know probably like seven feet in the air and he would just jump for no reason. So, he was a handful when I first got him and it took a lot. And Bo is a handful for sure. For sure. He's a handful. But that's because, like I said, his drive, it it it's insane. It's insane. But that's what I want. I want that. Like, I want that drive because, like I said, that dog's going to save my life. No question about it. Like, he will go through fire. He will do anything I ask. That dog's going to save my life. You'd rather have a dog. You have to reel back a little bit. Oh, 100%. It's almost the same thing like with um with people, right? Like it's a lot harder to take someone and push him and be like, "Hey, I need you to work. I need you to work. I need you to work." I'd rather be like, "Calm down. I get it. Let's reel it back a little bit." So, it's almost the same thing with a dog. It's a lot harder to get a dog to get to the point where he needs to be if he's a little bit of a softer dog as opposed to getting a dog that has as much drive as Bo because then you can reel that back. Or as they get older and then they realize what they're doing, they start to kind of mellow out a little bit. So, yeah, for sure. I' I'd rather that drive all day long. I mean, we pay a lot of money for it. So, I'd rather have the the best than something mediocre. Yeah. So, corporal in the K9 unit. Yeah. So, there's a sergeant. Yes. And then two corporals. Yeah. What is your actual responsibilities kind of look like? Cuz now you're, you know, you're not just one of the guys, right? You're you're a leader in the unit. So, what is what does that look like? It was a change at first for me for sure because like you said, it's you're um you're like one of the boys. joke around with one of the boys, say stuff, and like I said, I have that curse. It just stuff just flies out. So, I just say it's usually to make myself laugh, but I usually get a laugh out of somebody else, too. Yeah. It's usually at someone else's expense like always got to be. Yeah. So, you realize like you can't do that anymore, right? Because like you said, you're in a position where you're something else. So, that was a big change for me is trying to figure out that I'm still one of the boys, but I have to act professional at that sense and kind of like tone that stuff back. Um, but how's that going? It's good. Okay. Right, Mike? Yeah. Um, so like what what are the responsibilities that you have like actually as corporal? Like I know that you guys help with scheduling demos and things like that, but that's just the stuff we see. I mean, what's um Yeah. I mean, so for the most part, I mean, obviously if if Mike isn't working and he's off, we'll take on that full responsibility. So we approve reports, we approve all the training logs and stuff like that. that. And then like you're saying, scheduling and and and a lot of stuff. We help out with a lot of the day-to-day stuff to kind of take that burden off of Mike because he's got enough going on. So, we're there to help out. And then when we're working, obviously, we're there to if there's a bite, we'll go. We'll take care of everything. We'll do like our postbite interview. So, there's definitely a lot more admin stuff that comes along with it. But, it's good. I'm enjoying it. I like it. And and people don't realize, I mean, we actually have a really like we really don't bite that many people in the big scheme of things. Most of the time we're just finding them because like you kind of alluded to earlier, people see you or hear the dogs are like, "Yep, I'm good." Except for that except for that one person um that wants to fight. Yeah. I want to know like what's a postbite interview? Where did they bite you? Right here. Does it hurt? How are you feeling? Thank you, sir. Pretty much. So if if we do have a dog bite, we have a series of questions that actually went through our our legal team and we'll we'll ask them questions pertaining the dog bite and it's always verbatim like we have an actual list and when I when I speak to somebody I'll tell them be like listen you know Corporal Fire in the sheriff's office I have some questions to ask you strictly about the dog bite that's all it is and I'll show them the questions and I'm like these are verbatim and we go down that list and it's more to so we can type up a report as well and talk about what happened what what were the circumstances, um, if they saw the dog coming, if they knew that we were looking for them, stuff like that. It's more for us to kind of have something on the back end that we have in writing about how the incident happened. Do you think people lie on that most of the time? Like, I didn't know. Like, does it help them or It's not so much lie. I Well, well, people definitely lie to us. Yeah. But I think in that moment, they're not really sure what's going on and they definitely exaggerate a lot. So, a a lot of times you'll ask and some will tell you to pound sand and you're like, "All right, whatever. It is what it is." But like you'll one of the questions is you'll ask them, "How long was the dog on the bite for?" And we just had one recently and I asked the lady and she told me 15 minutes. Yeah. I was like, "Yeah, you're out of your mind." But they think it's 15 minutes. So, I document it and say it was 15 minutes. I mean, it's not, but So, it's Yeah. It's not so much that they lie. Um, just their whatever their perception of whatever it was. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. Works out. Do all the corporals teach K9 school and or no? Yes. Uh, no. It's it's not part of the role, but so like so Paul Martin is an instructor. He can teach if he wanted to. I'm an instructor. John Har is an instructor now. Wyatt is an instructor. Uh, Dominic Brassette is an instructor. So, at this point, we have multiple instructors where it just kind of works out where as if who's able to do it. So, like I've taught a lot of the most recent schools, but now that John is an instructor, he taught the last school and then he's actually going through this school with his own dog. So, he'll teach that school as well. So, with his own dog also. Oh. Oh, wait. I think did you do that with B? Yeah, you did that with B. Okay. Yeah. It It's It's difficult because you have to put a lot of time and effort into everybody else because again, right, like it's your name that's on that product. So you're trying to make sure that when that dog's ready and that that dog goes out, people know, okay, well that dog was trained by so and so, so it's to me a good dog. So you almost kind of put your dog on the back burner a little bit because you're really making sure everybody else knows what they're doing. But then it's not such a bad thing because it's a lot easier for me to kind of catch up so I can concentrate on other people and then if I need to worry about something else in the back end, I can do it. So you also ask um you also teach detector schools. Yes. Right. Do you teach both of them or just one or the other? Yeah, we we'll do patrol school first and then when patrol school's over, then we'll do a detector school. Usually we like to wait at least about a year for the dog. Yeah. Before the dog goes back into school for detector school. Kind of making sure that they're solid, that they know what they're doing because that's their secondary job, right? Primary is tracking and catching people. So, we want to make sure that dog's not having any issues and that they're good to go and that they're they're doing their job. They're catching people. And then we'll put them in detective school, right? and and for our listeners. So, all of our dogs, well, except for the the blood hounds, they're they're single purpose. They slobber on you, but um they stink, too. But all the other dogs, the chefs and the mouse, the chef mouse, all that stuff, they are all patrol dogs, which means they're out there looking for bad guys, apprehension, and then but they're all dual certified. So, they're patrol and something else. Yes. All dogs are split and it's either drug drug or bombs. Or bombs. And the detector school obviously covers both because you're teaching them about the scent. Yep. So, talk about talk about that a little bit. I mean, how hard is it? Is it a tough thing to teach dogs that additional thing to kind of give them that because they're not scent I've always wondered about this because they're not scent discriminate when they're tracking somebody. So they are they they can definitely scent discriminate and again right it's if you get them in that odor. So sorry that's what I meant. It's it's the freshest odor. It's not like a specific person. Yeah. If is once they lock in that odor then they're scent discriminating at that point. So they're not going to leave that odor to go find another odor once they're locked into that one. Um, but with detector it actually isn't that difficult because we've already shown the dog odor equals reward. So now it's just a different odor. Yeah. So it's just it's the same concept and now all we're doing is just teaching the dog like okay, you know, human beings equal reward. Now smell this odor whether it's drugs or bombs. And then as and it's basically this the same thing where it's like in the beginning it's food and the grass, right? So, it's an instantaneous like smell the grass, smell the food, get the reward, right? And then we do the exact same way with detector school. As soon as they smell the odor for the first time, they're getting a reward right away. Like it's instantaneously and then it immediately clicks and then they understand, oh, I know this game. I smell this, I get reward, I smell this, I get reward. So, that's pretty much how you start it in detector school. And then the same thing towards the end, they they pretty much got it. They understand. And and again, obviously, we have multiple odors and we'll start with one and then we'll just go from odor to odor to odor to odor. Luckily for drugs, they only have three odors, but for bombs, usually we have probably nine to 10 odors that we're locking them in before they're even done with. See, I thought it would be the other way around. Like drugs would be way more complicated than bombs. Yeah. What drugs do you train them on? Cocaine, meth, and heroin. Okay. Yeah. So, not pot like people think. No. No. We we we I can smell that myself. pretty much. I mean, honestly, that's what it comes down to, right? It's still plain smell, but we we took it away from all of our dogs because of the way that things are going. Obviously, with it being medically legal, if it eventually just becomes legal in general, we didn't want to have to deal with that because then that's then that's an issue. You have to try to retrain the dogs or get get them off the marijuana. So, it was just a lot easier for us not to even worry about it at this point. So, then for bombs, for explosives, what what all what all things are they learning like scentwise? Oh, like I was thinking like gunpowder. Yeah. Yeah. But there's black powder, there's like double base, single base, there's C4, there's syntax. Um there's like we even use stuff like cutting tape. Like things that you'll actually use to make a bomb. Not so much the bomb odors. We use things that they actually use to make the bomb. So it's a lot. The the bomb side of it is a lot more in detail than it is for the drug side. For sure. Whether it's tracking or whether it's detector work, the dogs do something specific that we can't teach them, right? Like we manipulate them to sit, to down, to heal, to do all those type of things. That's the kind of the stuff that we manipulate them to do. But when they get into odor, every dog has something very specific that they do. Like they may kind of like crouch down a little bit. They may bracket a little bit. Some dogs tails goes completely straight out, some kind of wag. So when you get your dog, those are the things that you're studying. So it's it's the same thing. And that's why we always have backup with us because I'm focused on my dog the whole entire time because I'm watching him because I know what he looks like when he is in odor and as soon as he gets out of odor, he doesn't look the same. So it's the same thing with detector work. That's something that we can't teach them. It's almost inherent in them, right? Where as soon as they smell that odor, they know it equals reward and they do something whether like I said, it's bracketing or just sitting down a certain way and they'll do it every single time. So it's it's their telltale in that sense and that's something that you use when you articulate. Yes. You know whatever they did this. Yeah. So for like the drug you teach them because when you say when you use the word manipulate it might sound a certain kind of way but that's just what you've taught them through everything else is what they do. So they do something different when they find somebody as well. Um interesting. Yeah. And this may be what you said a little bit ago, but like if you show up to a scene because someone ran off or or whatnot, do you know for certain that or do the dog does the dog know that it's person time? It's not drug time, you know, or whatnot. Because I know you said like what do you say? Seek, find, seek, track. But it's also it it it's a cue. It's a picture. They the dogs learn in pictures. So if you do the same thing over and over and over again, they understand. So for when we track, we hook the line up to their harness. As soon as you hook it up to their harness, they know what they're doing. Yeah. They know they know they're tracking. For detector work, I'll take the leash and I actually hook it up to Bose's collar. And that's what I do when I'm doing my detector work. It's never on his harness. So if it's hooked on his collar and we're walking around, he knows he's looking for bombs. If it's on his harness, he knows he's tracking. So it's the same thing because we do that over and over and over again. It's conditioning. Yeah, pretty much. Yeah. Okay, that makes sense. Yeah. What's the next step if you find explosives? Run away. Okay. Yeah. No, we we'll call a Tampa Bomb Squad. Okay. Yeah. Does that happen? It has. I mean, well, we use them in general a lot because the thing is if it's something very specific, if someone calls, obviously if someone calls in a bomb threat and says like, "Hey, there's something here." And we show up and there actually is something there, we're not going anywhere near it, right? There's there's no reason for it. If there's a credible threat threat and we see something, we're just calling the bomb squad and they'll just take they say there's a bomb in this building this or some and then there's a backpack where there shouldn't be a backpack. You're not going to send him up to smell the backpack. You're going to back away or um it honestly depends. We we have or a mysteriously wrapped package, maybe a backpack that's too ordinary, but it it it just honestly depends on the circumstances and the totality of everything. But there have been plenty of calls where there are bomb threats or just something in general and there is a package and we will sniff it. But I mean there was one in Bay Pines and there was a box that was sitting in the parking garage. It was a handmade box. Like you knew someone did something and it was just left there. So the same thing they called us and I showed up and I went to the parking garage and I looked at it and I was like, "Yeah, I'm not putting my dog on that." Because there's no reason to. Like especially at Bay Pines, they get threats all the time. And when you see something that looks like somebody built it, it had like little legs on it where it was kind of like sitting up off the ground a little bit. I'm like, I'm I'm not going anywhere near enough. So at that point you just call the bomb squad and they just come in and deal with it. And you do a lot of proactive work too. I mean there's of course here in Tampa Bay we have sports teams, we have all kinds of special events. Gasparella, we have VIP visits and and like right now we're doing the Blue Jays. So we we take care of all the Blue Jays games. But yeah, like you said, Gasparella, Epiphany, there's a lot of different events. Always helping out. Every time um someone political comes into town, we're always doing sweeps for them. So yeah, there's a lot of work. Yeah, that's a whole other aspect of it I think that people don't, you know, don't realize. It's like that's why you see dogs at events for that reason. Yeah. So is B then he's explosive detect. Okay. It was Ronin, too. Yeah. Yeah. Usually once you're something, you kind of stick with it as Yeah. But it's also because bomb dogs are better. They're the elite. Yeah. They're the elite of the elite. The elite bomb. I can smell nine things. When was the last time your drugs blew up? Yeah. I mean, yeah. So I I imagine when Yeah. Haven't you been to a meth lab? I mean they do fair with um you know you have to do sweeps for events and stuff like that or if a bomb threat comes in that's when they would do that. What about uh like a drug call? Like is there a drug call? Like so for especially for patrol. I mean our drug dogs get utilized a lot when it comes to patrol. I mean anytime somebody does a traffic stop if they want a dog to come and sniff the car they'll come and sniff the car. So yeah. So during patrol Yeah. The drug dogs are getting used all the time. Yeah. Huh. Okay. I do have one question though because people are going to want to know the names of like Ronin and B. Like is there significance to either of their names? Yeah. So for me, yes, my dogs um Ronin is Japanese and it means samurai without a master. And unbeknownst to me, it actually worked out perfect because again, I don't know where I'm ever going. So he literally is like a samurai warrior without a master because I just you don't know what's happening. So that that that just worked out perfect. Um and Bo is spelled B E AU. It's French for handsome. And I mean obviously he's like my self-evident dog. Yeah. Pretty much. I mean I looked in the mirror and I was like Bo B. Yeah. We've had to endure those comments on social media. Deputy fine. Trust me. I know. I know. It is. Women are wild. Yeah. It must be such a burden being you. Oh, it's so tough. It's so tough. Impossible. It's It's fun for my wife though. Keeps her keeps her going. Keeps her. Do you see this? Do you see this comment? Don't you mess up. I have alternatives. Karen over here in Palm Harbor. Yeah. Karen in Palm Harbor. I still got it, babe. I still got it. You see this? Look at Gam Gam over here. She can take her teeth out. Um, anyway, the only other thing I was thinking is Bose's first catch was pretty significant, wasn't it? Like it was really quick. It was Oh, cuz I'm like I made a video from it. Yeah. So, that was actually that was actually a record. Oh, was it? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Was that the one that we It was like on Friday the 13th. And it was complicated because we couldn't It was a kid, right? It was a juvenile, right? Yeah. that cuz that was that was our first shift together out of school and I was literally driving into work coming down off the bayside. So it was probably like 7:02 when that call came out. So yeah, it was with shift starting at 7:00. Yes. Yeah. So it was the fastest first shift for a brand new dog and the fastest time for for catch in that sense. Yeah. I remember it being like 15 minutes like the whole track or something. Yeah, it was a good one. Staffing and like shifts and stuff. So there's um there's a day dog on and a lot of people are surprised there's only one dog on or a lower number of dogs during the day. It's like well yeah because most people do dumb things at night. Um but then like what is like normal staffing for K9 at night? Like how many dogs are there? Well right now like on my side we'll have six dogs working at night. Okay. When we're fully staffed Yeah. We have six. So and a good mix. You've got bomb dogs and Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Like we have we'll have two drug dogs that are working right now. Um, Huckabe and Wyth, they're both our drug dogs, so they're working at night and then we'll have the bomb dogs. But yeah, right now we have six and like you said, then we have one on each side that will work a day shift schedule just so we always have a dog on days. Right. And when you say each side, what do you mean by that? Uh, like my side and then Paul's side. So the unit itself is kind of split in half in that sense. So like you said, we have the sergeant, we have the two corporals, and then we have the handlers underneath each corporal. So geographic or what is it like? Um, that's how do you get on just inside? Ooh, nobody wants to be on that side. Uh, honestly at at this point, so we kind of switched things up once I became corporal and we honestly just went down the list and we just kind of started by seniority and we were like one over here, one over here, one over here, one over here just experience that especially because we have a lot of new people in our unit right now. So it's a lot more difficult. Before everybody was senior, everybody knew what they were doing. So now it's like you kind of want to make sure you balance it out. Yeah. Enough veteran and enough new guys on each side. So yeah, people, you know, I think you always see like K9 running 1018 lights and sirens somewhere because when you look at the county and you say, "Oh, we've only got, you know, six dogs working at any given time." That's a lot. You know, that's a lot going on and god forbid you're in, you know, you guys might be gathered together training or doing something because you're always never fails. It could be dead something, you know, and we're like, "Let's go do you're training in East Lake and then bam, it happens at Fort Dotto and it's like, oh, we'll be there tomorrow." Like, you know, it's either training or going to the bathroom, right? If you if you're doing one of those things, a call a call is definitely coming out. It's coming in more ways than one. Heyo. What else you guys got for Justin? Uh, so for the blood hounds, I know they did all their initial training in the school in Pasco for their ongoing training. Are you a part of that or? Yes. Yeah. So, they actually still continue to go up to Pasco. Okay. On a Tuesday, they'll go up to Pasco and train with them. But on a regular night, granted it's a blood hound, we treat it no different than we treat the regular dogs. They're still doing training tracks every single night just like the rest of us are. But it's just a little different because obviously they can do both. They can do the scent article and they can do the freshest odor. So we'll we'll do a mixture of both. But yeah, they're constantly training just like the rest of us. Everybody is. Yeah. Yeah. And they are very scent discriminant. Yes. Yes. Pretty insane. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's wild. It's it's crazy how you you'll set something up where you'll have multiple people walking in the same direction and they all just split off in different directions and the dog again, right? If you have that scent article, the dog scent discriminates and you'll watch the dog track and just veer off to where the actual scent article was because you can show a blood hound a piece of clothes or whatever and they'll go find that exact Yeah. Which is insane. That's just crazy. It's a really long time. Like it can be like a full day. Yeah. with the blood hounds, can't it? Yeah. So, um, our dogs actually just recently went to St. Augustine for a training class and Wedi was out tracking and at the end of the track, the guy was like, "How long do you think this time lapse was?" And he was like, "I don't know." The guy was like, "4 hours." So, like a legitimate 24-hour track and the dog tracked all the way to the end and and got where we supposed to be. So, yeah, it is absolutely incredible how long of a time lapse they can have. Training, they said the dogs would work up to that. Yeah. Yeah. It's wild. That's awesome. Our dogs are there. They're there. Wow. Tip of the spear, a blood hound. Oh, yeah. Well, actually, all the blood hounds that were in that group out of Pasco, I think the instructors were saying, "This is insane." So, we got our we got the best uh best blood hounds around. Um, you know, and I had the same thought when we talked to Mike, too, but the things you described doing are actually pretty insane. Like, oh, yeah. You you've got I mean, you're afraid of spiders and stuff, but we all are. But you you have well you whatever um but you have this person that could have done this whatever who knows what this person you just know you got to find this person or you have somebody you know who it is you know they're a bad person and they have run into the worst possible corner of Penllis County they possibly can and you guys just go in after them. Yeah. Knowing they can see you and you can't see them yet. Yeah. Like that's the worst part of it obviously and you can see you know we know unfortunately how it can go sideways and what can happen but why why do you do that every day? Like what like why? Cuz we're crazy. Yeah. No I mean because if we don't who will, right? I mean honestly at the end of the day and again that's why I think it takes a special person right? Um everybody wants to do something right? like you want to be a professional athlete or you want to do something there. There's just something that everybody wants to do, but just because you want to do something doesn't mean that you can, right? I I'm I'm a sole believer that there are certain things in life that are meant for certain people. Not everybody can do it. And this is for sure one of them for that exact reason, right? Like you're telling me that guy just killed somebody and he just took off running and I need you to go find him. Right? A known person like you're out of your mind. I'm not doing that. So for us, we we put that out of our mind because I know that if I don't do it, who's going to do it, right? And again, if I don't catch that person, they could possibly hurt somebody else. They could possibly kill somebody else. So, you really have to kind of take that out of your head and not think about it until after because that's the thing, like you said, there's some crazy crazy stuff and there's some wild tracks and it's like a movie. Legitimately like a movie. some of the stuff that we go through the swamps um just some of the tracks that we have these dogs are incredible but when it's all said and done and then like the adrenaline dump happens and then you start to come back to reality and you're like what the hell did I just do but you think about it after and then usually we laugh about it because that's our way of coping with it because again if we constantly thought about those things we wouldn't do it so I think that's really what it comes down to it takes a certain person to be able to take that fear and put in the back of their head and realize that you're serving a better purpose in that sense, right? Like you're doing something more because you're meant to do it and not everybody can do it. And again, if I didn't do it, who would? So, you really just kind of have to bury that and just realize but it's not really something you can teach either. No. And and again, that's why it's the same thing like a lot of people say that they want to do this and then they realize it's not for them, right? And and there's nothing wrong with that. I mean, I think everybody if they have a passion or if they have something that they think that they want to do, you should always try, right? You have to at least try because if you don't, what what's the point? But there's also nothing wrong with trying something or thinking that this is something that you want to do and then realizing this isn't for me. Sure, right? There's nothing wrong with that. I mean, I think at the end of the day, everybody has to experience failure at some point in their life because it teaches you who you really are. Like, you have to fail at something in order to realize how you're going to recover from that. Are you going to bounce back? are you going to be stronger or are you going to do something else that now you you figured out like okay this wasn't for me but now I'm really good at this so now I find my niche but there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of folks that make it through K9 tryyouts and through K9 school and then come in and are like yeah this this isn't for me so you guys do whatever it is you do you do a good job of vetting yeah I mean but you know cuz it's like well you you have plenty of people that they're they have the physicality, they have whatever, but then you have to have that piece of it. Like I think something and and we were talking about this earlier, like there's there's definitely this not not a stigma in the full sense, but but you know, you guys are hard on each other. You you joke around, you cut up, you know, kind of speaking to being one of the guys. I mean, but that's across the board, you know, law enforcement, military, all that stuff. Is that part of that? Is that, you know, are you are you kind of poking people and needling them just to see if you can break them? Like is it like a hazing thing? Like what is that part of it? Not so much hazing, but it it's for sure, like you said, you have to have thick skin. And I think we know that and we kind of do that to each other because of it. Because again, you have to be bipolar because you can have an amazing track and an amazing catch and then all of a sudden you don't and everybody's talking about you, right? Like everybody's like, "Oh, that dog stinks." Or, "This guy this." Like, you got to kind of like be able to let that go. So, us as a group, I think we're the hardest on each other because we're building each other up in that sense almost preparing ourselves for that. realizing that somebody's always going to have something to say. Somebody's not going to like what you did or somebody's going to think that you could have did more. So, we do that as a unit where I think we do a really good job of taking care of each other and building up each other so that we're all on the same platform in that sense and nobody's kind of sitting below. Like I I'm only as good as the other handler, right? Like our unit is only as good as the other handler. So, I need to make sure that Jason is as good as me and my dog because again, he has a job to do just like I have a job to do. So, we're definitely very hard on each other, but that motivates each other because that's who we are. But going back to um like vetting people, the nice thing for us is the people that want K9 definitely make it known and they train with us. So, we can see that they're not afraid of dogs, but we also take them on live calls with us. So, that's huge for us. So, like when we're actually out tracking, if I can have a potential candidate behind me and helping me, they get to see it for themselves. So, and it's the same thing like I tell people all the time, listen, we take people, if it's not you, please just tell me. Like, I don't want you to feel like you have to go with me. If that's not you, if you don't want to jump fences, if you don't want to go through the swamp, if you don't want to chase this bad guy, I'm okay with that. Just be honest with me. And then the people that do, they'll come with you and then like they're hooked, right? Like those guys that want K9 because backup is just as fun, honestly. Like and and that's why for me, even though I have a newer dog and being in the corporate role, I have to kind of take a backseat and let the new guys work. So, I'm running around a lot more now than I was. And it's just still so much more exciting. Like when I'm out with Wedi and Wedi catches somebody, we're both screaming like girls, right? Like it's just it's it's the same thing. Like it's just so exciting. So being able to be there and see that happen, the people in patrol get to experience that as well. And it also like, oh yeah, that's what I want. 100% I want that. or they're like, "Yeah, that that's not for me." Cuz we've had it. We've had people that have said that they want K9. And then once they start to get more involved, then they're just like, "This is not for me." Which again, it it's fine, right? Better to figure it out then. Yeah, for sure. Um what's what's next for you? I mean, obviously Ronan or sorry, uh Bo is pretty new, so he's got, you know, Yeah. got got some years left, but what's after what's what's something else you want to do? It just depends. I mean, so I took the sergeant's test, so I'm hoping that happens. Um, I might have to Nancy Carri and Mike at some point, but his knees are probably wait till the oak comes out of the kennels and just be like, "Ah, gotcha." And just and then run real fast cuz Mike will beat me up. So, it's like, yeah, I was going to say there's like a handful of people that I would not I wouldn't I know not want to mess with. That's hilarious. Yeah, Mike. I promise I won't do that. So, Sergeant Sergeant at some point, you know, that would be nice. I hope so. Yeah. Are there any areas of the agency that you have an interest in? I really enjoy mentoring and teaching in general. So, it's not so much that I have something that I spe like I have to be in K9, right? Like I love this. This is my passion. And again, it's one of those things where you find something that you love to do for work. It's really not work, right? Like I get to go to work every single day and I love what I do. So, it doesn't feel like it's a job. But I also love helping other people. So whether my path is to stay in K9 for the rest of my career or my path is to go somewhere else, I really enjoy helping other people and mentoring them. So it's just something that I just want to do in general. I really feel like the same thing. It takes a certain type of person to be able to put on that role and be able to help teach people and build them up and make them a better deputy and a better person. So So when you're not at work being passionate about K9, what does what does Justin like to do in his spare time? Ooh, so much fun stuff. You're like an outdoorsy guy, right? I do. I love being outside. The sun. As long as there aren't spiders. As long as there's no spiders. Oh, yeah. It's It's winter sports. Oh, I do. I love winter. I'm actually flying out on Wednesday. We're going to Keystone, Colorado. Yep. Yeah. How many different parts of your body are you going to injure this stuff? Not cuz I really messed myself up last time. I You like injured your shoulder and then while you were telling somebody how you injured your shoulder, I fell down a flight of stairs. Yes. Yes. Oh my god. So, no, I told you he falls a lot. I do. Good lord. So, we we did a guys trip a couple weeks ago. It was um me, Nick Fion, John Dobson, and Sean Liver. Those are the guys I actually got hired with, too. Like, those are my best friends. Um we grew up together in this agency. Like, we all had kids at the same time. So, like that's my my family right there. So, we did a guy's trip and we went to Breenidge and we're going up the lift and I see that there's like this little curvy like little racetrack path that's like almost like a mini halfpipe. And of course, we're out there by ourselves. You're guys like, "Oh, I got to do that." Oh, yeah. Yeah. My buddy's like, "Let's just go do it now." I'm like, "Sure." So, we start going and I'm going down and I end up coming up the side of the the little halfpipe area and I just completely eat it. I just smacked right into the ground. My shoulder got so messed up. like I I could barely even lift my shoulder up at that point. So, I was done. Um, and it happens every time because I'm like I don't get to go as often as I want to. Like obviously if I lived out there, you'd go all the time, but now it's like you get to go once, twice a year, and when you're out there, you're like, "Oh, I'm going to do everything and anything, right?" And you just don't realize I'm old. Like, I just need to stop, right? So, we go back to the room. I try to get dressed because at that point, I can't I can barely even dress myself. The guys are helping me put my clothes on because I can't even put my arm up. and we go to walk to get dinner. So now I'm on the phone facetiming my wife and my kids telling them what happened. And as I'm saying, I think I need an X-ray. Like as soon as X-ray comes out of my mouth, my feet come up in the air and I completely fall and slide down concrete stairs and just eat it. And now I'm just laying on the sidewalk in the middle of bre like Did you Did you hold on to the phone the whole time? No. So, I held on to the phone and then my buddy walks over and picks up the phone and continues to FaceTime my wife while he's laughing at me. That's awesome. Holy cow. Oh, dang. So, skiing and stuff. I don't know. I just Yeah. So, yeah. I I I I love that aspect, but living here, it's the water. I mean, we're out on the boat as much as we can. If I can be outside and be in the sun and just enjoy myself. Oh, yeah. 100%. It's all about being outside. Yeah. And not and not hurting yourself. I I mean I try not to fall down the stairs. Yeah, it just happens. Like I said, I fall a lot. Yeah. So, um we like we like to uh make sure we give everybody an opportunity that comes on uh to, you know, hey, what's what's that one thing that you think the public needs to know or needs to understand about your job, your specific role, law enforcement in general? Is there anything that comes to mind? you're this is your time for your PS. There's there's a couple of things Justin Raw right here. Yeah. Oh yeah. Um one the like K9 related like I said stay inside your house. Just stay in your house. I mean again I don't it's it's absolutely amazing that there can be cruisers all over the place, lights all over the place, the helicopters up, the dogs up, and everybody comes outside and like should I be concerned? Yes. Like get inside. Like, no, we're not just taking the dog for a walk. So, there's something happening clearly. Like, one and and and please, if you see something, say something. Like, if you're inside your house and the guy runs through your backyard, absolutely come running out and be like, hey, he just ran through my backyard all day long. I I love that. But if you just come walking up to me and you're like, "Should I be concerned? Is everything okay? Is anything going on?" You're like, "Yeah, yeah. There's a serial killer out. Please get inside." Like, right. And not only for that reason, but because they could mess up the chat. Oh, they do for sure. Yeah. Yeah. It it it happens a lot because then people are just out and then my dog's focused on that person because then they're they're yelling at me like, "What's going on?" And then my dog looks over like, "Is that the guy I'm supposed to get?" And it's like, "No, back over here." So, yeah, it it does it messes up. Stay inside, mind your business. Yeah. Yeah. It it messes up things a lot. But I think the the biggest thing for the public, and um me and Laura talked about this before. I think it's really for people to understand that the at the end of the day, we're still human beings, right? And I think that's the hardest thing because our job is very difficult and I'm not making excuses for it. Like I signed up for this 100%. Sure. But we go through a lot and we see a lot and that's not normal, right? Like a normal human being should not see the things that we see on a daily basis. And that's the thing like we see people at their worst every single day and we're there to help them. But the trauma that we see, the violence that we see, everything that we go through, it 100% takes a toll on you. That's impossible. Like, you can't tell me that you do this job and you see that stuff every day and it doesn't affect you. It does. Um, and I think that's very hard for people in law enforcement to be able to cope with and deal with as well, right? Because we're told you have to be a type personality. You have to be macho. You have to be able to kind of like, you know, deal with it. And we do. we bury it. And we all know when you bury stuff, it only makes things worse, right? It just builds up and builds up and builds up and eventually people explode. So, it's not so much that I'm making excuses. It's just kind of reminding the public just to remember at the end of the day, we're human beings as well. And seeing all that trauma affects people and then you put on our personal lives just like everybody else has, right? Your marriages, your kids, everything that's going on. Um, it's a lot to deal with. I mean, mental health is a huge thing in general. I mean, whether you're law enforcement or whether you're a human being, I mean, it it's huge. And I think it's a it's a good thing that we're really finally starting to understand now because back then, I mean, nobody cared. You were like, "Yeah, whatever." Yeah, whatever. Mental health, suck it up, buttercup, right? Like that's it. And I think now it's coming to the light that it it's serious. And I think people need to really pay attention to that more and really do what they need to do to help themselves. But I think the public needs to kind of remember that at sometimes, too. Like we're also working through a lot as well. We're trying to do a lot and Yeah. Like everything else. Yeah. Yeah. And it's interesting that you say that and bring that up though because also, you know, just a few minutes ago we were talking about how tough y'all are on each other and whatever. How that can seem very like unforgiving. But but deep inside there Oh yeah. There's a thoughtful guy. Oh yeah. 100%. But that's just the culture of it. That's how it And that's the nice thing too about being in a unit that I'm in because we are so close that we're also each other's therapists at the end of the day where it's I mean you'll see people all the time like oh if you need help if you need to talk come talk to me like I don't know you and I'm not going to talk to you. Nobody's going to talk to somebody that they don't know unless you go to a professional. So being in a unit that I'm in because we're so close because we go through so much together and we have so many experiences. It's a lot easier for us to really be like, "Hey, come here. Just I I need to talk for a second." And we're able to let things out a lot easier and be able to talk to each other. So, we're very blessed in that sense. It it makes things a lot easier for us. Yeah. I mean, that's solid for anybody in any profession, I think. You know, stay close to your peers. Yeah. Well, Corporal Justin Fineberg, everybody, um, thank you so much for coming on and letting us uh interrogate you for a minute. We have, uh, all kinds of opportunities for folks to give us feedback on this podcast. Uh, and uh, we have an Instagram specific to the podcast. It's 56 podcast all spelled out um, on Instagram. But if you want to send us an email, you can do that. And uh, Laura, where where might they they send that email? Uh, they can send it to let's 56pcset.com. That's56pcset.com. You guys were really locking eyes there for that. I'm like, what? I was just so focused. I'm like, it's an intense moment for me. I get to do this. It was like she was on the wheel of fortune. She's Well, as always, thanks everybody for listening and we'll talk to you next time.