You know, when you're meeting with folks out there, when you're at job fairs [music] or whatever, what do you tell them about coming to work here in Penelis County? >> I'm looking for people that have heart [music] and actually want to do this job for the right reasons, not just for the aesthetics, but they actually want to get out and serve their community. >> This is 56, a Penelis [music] County Sheriff's Office podcast. I'm Ricky Butler with Laura Sullivan and Ashley Culie. We are back at it. We're coming at you with something uh new for this episode. As you know, we've always focused on people telling great stories about their background, learning a lot on the way, and we're going to shift. We're going to try something different. We're still going to do that here and there, but we also got some feedback about trying some topic based stuff. So, that's what we're going to do. And I think it's appropriate we start with a really, really hot topic, not just for the Penelis County Sheriff's Office, but really all of law enforcement, and that is recruiting. Um, we have a a tremendous agency that's powered by so many great people, but it doesn't happen by chance. We have a great team of recruiters uh that live and breathe it every single day going out and finding the best of the best um here for the PCSO. So, we actually have uh we're going to have three uh different recruiters we're going to chat uh with on this episode. We've got Sarah Anthony, who is the uh civilian recruiter. That's what she specializes in. And then we have um Brandon Tols who is a correction certified deputy that specializes in that. And then we're going to talk to uh Daniel Kurtber who is law enforcement and specializes in J in that. There are so many different little nuances with all that. Um so it's going to be cool to get their different perspectives. Um and with that Sarah thank you for coming on to chat civilian. Um, and we kind of wanted to start with you because people don't think civilian opportunities when they think about a law enforcement agency. Uh, and that's really the bulk of what we have available are a bunch of different civilian positions. And pretty much any position that's in the public se in the private sector we have. >> Yeah, there's a correlation here at PCSO >> something. So, >> and also we're civilians. The three of us and we're pretty darn impressive. >> Yeah, we're not bad and we're all just civilians. >> Just civilians. That was that's always been the joke because when you're it is it is a different environment being a civilian in a law enforcement agency. So speak to that a little bit Sarah and and what we've got going on in in civilian land for job opportunities. >> Yeah, I think you really hit the nail on the head there. Most people think sheriff's office, they think law enforcement, they think detention deputy. And those roles are obviously very important for obvious reasons. But what a lot of people don't realize is there's a huge network of professionals in the nonswaren capacity pushing that mission of public safety behind the scenes. Uh we have a whole fleet services division. They help with the maintenance of our vehicles. We've got a fiscal department. They're in charge of budgets and all the financial operations behind. >> Kind of kind of important. A little bit important. >> I got paid today. [laughter] >> Yeah. >> Oh, we did get Yeah, we got paid. Yeah, it's good. >> Um, we've got health services. So, LPNs, RNs, APRNs, LCSSWS, licensed mental health counselors, pharmacy area, information technology bureau is huge. They are helping to make sure we're on the front line of innovative technology and supporting all of the applications that our sworn and nonsworn staff rely on every day. >> Plenty of support staff like administrative Yeah. >> dispatchers um which we've talked to on the on the podcast before. So what are um some of the one of the questions that that we always get certainly with the certified positions is you know what kind of people are you looking for? you know, are you looking for people that are super specialized? I know it would depend on the position, but are you looking for people that, you know, do we get people that are doing career changes and things? Are there entry level opportunities for folks that, you know, just want to start, you know, in the agency and see what else is available? Like we were we've we always get people that are just so curious to know the different positions we have and we have civilians in particular that come in and move around as well to different places to get experience. So, what what what kind of people do we ordinarily attract? >> Yeah. Maybe talk first about some of the the people who come in with no experience, like what would somebody say fresh out of high school do or somebody who was in their early 20s, they've had maybe a customer service job, but they really love the idea of public service and and and supporting law enforcement. We get a a plethora of different people who are interested in the agency and the stage of life really dictates or sometimes dictates what your interest level is and your background history and we have individuals like you said who are 18 straight out of high school. They're wanting to start a career here. So you're looking at more of those entrylevel positions and our job descriptions do a really good job of highlighting exactly what qualifications you have to have so you can narrow down your search. Um so the positions that don't require the college degrees um would be more of like your administrative assistant classification inmate records. Our public safety telecommunicator is a great one >> which is dispatch. >> Which is dispatch. >> Dispatch. Yeah. >> That's what people usually ask of. And I'm like, "Yep, that's that." >> So, a lot of these you don't have to have any real work experience, but you have to have the aptitude and the attitude that make you a good fit here. Right. >> Correct. We're looking for individuals who are wanting to be honest and transparent in the application process who want to work together on our agency mission and that's supporting the community and providing that safety aspect. >> And a lot of those positions mentioned you can you can come in and you can start there and you can make a career out of it because there's all kinds of opportunities for advancement or lateral transfers, you know, kind of moving throughout the agency. But you can also use it to, you know, kind of get a start and get that exposure because I still don't know what I want to do when I grow up necessarily. So, >> you have a few more years. >> Yeah, I got some time. So, you know, people can come in, they can start. Uh, and we've had we have uh, you know, Ashley, you started your career, uh, here as an admin assistant. Uh, we had some teaching and some stuff before that, but you made it here and, uh, and then you kind of looked around and say, "Hey, I think I want to end up in PR someday." And you, you made it happen. So there's it's there are and you have to you know we all know this there in law enforcement or the correction side there are assignments you can get you can move around there isn't that same option for civilians but I think that it's there's other of course bigger pros to that as far as being able to to move around and try new things which are you know a lot of them are applicable and and it kind of flows pretty nicely because we just see I know so many people that have moved uh different places and got a breath of experience. I think we have about 187 individual nonsworn positions. So that number alone >> individual job openings that's different job titles >> types of jobs just for our nonsworn. So amongst your entry level for those who are just starting their careers as well as your midlevel and senior management within those nonsworn areas. And there's several people myself included I spent time in the investigative operations bureau. That's where I started and now I'm in human resources. Um I know individuals who started off in the fleet services division and now they're in the information technology bureau. That's a huge career change. So there's a lot of support for individuals. One to either stay in the role if they love it um or two advance within the role because they want to try out management or even transfer you know laterally to another bureau to try something completely new. It's great that it can be individualbased because not everyone has the same goal and we want to support those in the growth paths that they're interested in. >> And I think fleet and IT is a really cool example because some of those folks in particular, you know, they obviously work together closely, but you know, you you work enough with the IT component because they work together with fleet to to build out the vehicles and it's like, hey, I think this is actually pretty cool. I'm pretty good at this. That opportunity comes up in it and you're transferring or it can go both ways as well. So, a lot of opportunities like that are great >> and those are both areas of the well, I mean the agency as a whole offers a whole lot of training, but those are two that I've heard from people in particular. They really incentivize getting more education, taking more classes, getting more certifications to help you advance in your career. >> Agreed. Um, and our training department is fantastic. We have a lot of training opportunities for individuals to grow within their professions, grow professionally outside of maybe their current career path. Um and we provide a lot of training for people as people, right? Communication, stress management, having that work life balance. We provide a lot of trainings that individuals can use both in their professional lives as well as in their home lives, which I think is great. And I think also um we were talking about perhaps people younger in their careers but we also have opportunities especially you know mid-level management and higher where you might be going down a totally different path in the private sector or or a semi- similar path. We have a position you can come in we get folks coming in from finance obviously for fiscal um have experience pay. So kind of talk about uh some of those opportunities especially as it relates to benefits and experience pay or any incentives that we may offer. Yeah, a great and unique thing about our agency is that we offer experience consideration for a multitude of our roles depending on the skill sets that are required for those roles. So for instance, we had an individual who spent a lot of time in the private sector in the IT arena um and they wanted to do work that they felt was more meaningful to them. They were spending a lot of time away from their home and their families and they just didn't feel like the purpose they were serving met their needs. So they looked at our agency and because they had those years of experience, we were able to consider that and their starting salary, which a lot of law enforcement agencies don't do. >> So if you're looking at the the pay range, you can't think that you're necessarily starting at the bottom if you have experience. You might be midpoint. >> Correct. And we try to be very transparent on those roles. So when we post it, if you see it says consideration for experience, then you know, okay, that's a role where I can bring the experience I had previously to the table because we want to attract people who are qualified and wanting to do the good work and that's a great way that we can do it. What are some of the things for somebody coming from outside the agency, whether they are seasoned or, you know, starting their career? What are some of the things that they would need to know about kind of the culture coming into a large law enforcement agency? >> Well, like you said, we're very large. We're we're a goodsized law enforcement agency, which equates to a lot of different opportunities, a lot of different specialties that you can look into if you're interested in it. more opportunities for advancement within your assigned areas if that's something that you're interested into. So, the career opportunities and advancement and support for training is something that you'll have access to. For our agency, work life balance is very important and employee well-being is very important. So, we put a lot of time and effort into the programs that we offer not just our members but the families as well. So, we have our chaplain program that was started not too long ago that's been providing great services to our members and the families. They host familyfriendly events outside of work. We did one last fall that was a great hit. We have one coming up this spring which is really exciting. And that really caters to individuals out there who want more of that family sense of community. I'm not just here to work. I'm also here to have those nonformal connections with those I spend a good part of my day with outside of my work and have my family participate in it too. >> Yeah, that's all all really good stuff. >> Yeah. And I I think to a certain extent the the feeling the ethos of working in a law enforcement a agency is so much different than working in the private sector. You you're not just doing a job to make widgets. You're not just doing a job to get your paycheck. You're serving the community. You're serving the whole county. you're supporting the deputies here and in the jail and you're you're you're doing good with your job and I think that's a very powerful feeling for a lot of people and it's a real incentive to come and work here whether you're at the beginning of your career or you've been doing something else for 15 years and you're like this is this is meaningless >> and you're you're working shoulderto-shoulder with like-minded individuals so that sense of belonging is there too. >> We like to have a little bit of fun too. >> We do. >> So that's good. [laughter] Um, what what are some uh I imagine you have some folks that that may come in that may not be prepared for the interview process or the application process or you know do you have any uh do you have any applicant stories from uh your time? >> Uh probably a few. >> Yeah. [laughter] >> Um we I was on >> and of course the point of this is not to make fun of people. It's to make sure that people that are going to apply for a job here are prepared. >> Right. And and preparation. >> Yes. What not to do. >> Okay. [laughter] Preparation is key really. I was on an interview panel and when the panel asked the applicant what about the job was it that really caught their attention that they were interested in. The applicant kind of hesitated and was like uh can you remind me what position this is that I'm interviewing for >> and it really made the panel and myself pause um and didn't set a good tone for the rest of the interview. not write it on your hand with a Sharpie or something at least. [laughter] >> Anything anything but that, >> right? So, they're looking for that preparation. You know, the reason behind why you want to work here, do you understand the job that you're applying for and why are you the best fit for it? And the individuals who come in to the door who understand and have a good knowledge base, they really stand out. >> And, you know, we obviously it's a it's a long process as well. I mean, by the time you do make it to an interview, I mean, up to that point, it's not the process certainly isn't over, but people have been looking into you, you know, kind of doing some basic research and taking a lot of time. And for you to not be prepared, you know, that's not great uh at all. And then, um, you know, to that process, civilians have it kind of easy compared to the certified positions as far as well, a couple steps. They still have to do quite a bit of it, but but what does that process um, for a civilian look like? The civilian roles, the process can change a little bit depending on the nature of the role, but the majority of them you start with submitting your application. That's step one. Our human resources specialists are going to review it to make sure you meet our minimum qualifications to work here at the agency. If there's testing involved because some of the positions that are highly technical do have a testing component to it. So, we'll facilitate that testing. And then the passers will then be sent to the hiring areas. And it's the hiring area themselves that really review the applications and the history and the test scores and narrow down their top 10 or however many they have the capacity to interview because even though we would like to offer everyone the opportunity to interview, the reality is we don't always have the bandwidth to do that. Um and then once we have the interview completed then the panel will determine who they want to move forward with for their vacancy and then that's when they enter the background process. So our >> which is quite comprehensive >> which is very comprehensive and for it's intention yeah intentionally that way. Um, so if you're moved into the background process, then you get assigned to a civilian background investigator and then they're going to walk you through that next piece, making sure we have all your documentation to validate your education history and your work history. We're going to have you do some type of truth verification piece, whether it's a polygraph or a CVSA to validate >> computer voice stress analysis. >> Yes, ma'am. [laughter] um to validate that what you say and what you have on your application is accurate. >> They're both truth verification systems. The the computer voice stress analysis which people probably aren't as familiar with. The process for them is a lot simpler and a lot probably less stressful because you're not hooked up to so many wires. It's just basically a microphone clipped to your lapel and then you say yes or no. >> Yeah. So I mean and it is it's a tool, you know, in the background process. >> Uh and that's the you know, I think people are definitely intimidated by that. Uh I know I was, you know, when I started. It's inherently intimidating. >> It is. But but also >> even if you know telling the truth and you know you're telling the truth, >> but once you get through it, it's very it's very straightforward because they're really just going over your application with you to make sure you answered it properly. And that's really >> there's no surprise questions. [laughter] >> So um yeah, it is it is a process though. And then and I think there was a point where people kind of get impatient and then you have people looking at other positions and things like that and but you know it's pretty easy to tell the people that are committed you know starting with learning what position you're applying for. I can >> what agency you're applying for, who the sheriff is. I've heard some people didn't recognize the sheriff, >> right? And the individuals who come prepared very much stand out. >> Yeah. >> And those who come underprepared very much stand out. And we want individuals to be successful and have a good experience in every aspect of the process. So, we try to walk them through it the best we can. Um, but being prepared is very helpful and first impressions matter as well. Um, we had one individual come for an interview dressed like they were headed to the beach. And I get it, we're Florida. We live where other people like to vacation, but first impressions at the end of the day do matter. And panels notice if you put a lot of time and preparation, not just in your knowledge base, but in your appearance as well. Do you have like a how long does the process take for a civilian? You mentioned kind of what it was like, but is there a range of of how long it takes >> anticipate a process? >> Right. There is a like we talked about in the background just going from application to review to interview to background process to sheriff final sign off. We are we do take a lot of time in that process and we take a lot of due diligence in the background investigation piece to make sure that we're fully vetting everyone that we're going to put in a position where public safety matters. Um, but we move from a paper application process to an online application process. So, every applicant has their own portal. So they can log on to their account at any time to see what applications they have that are still active and where their application is within the process. That's good. So when they submit it, they can see, okay, I'm in the HR screening and then once that screening's completed, their application portal will update and it'll show them that they're in the HR specialist review or that they're under the hiring manager review or they're in the background. So they can at any time of the day, night, whatever works for them, at a glance see in real time where their application status is. And I think that transparency probably helps with the wondering of where is it, >> how long it takes or whatever >> or how much longer. And the HR specialist will be communicating with applicants by phone or email regarding where they are in the process so that they're aware, okay, I'm being sent testing now. Okay, I passed my test. Now I'm going to hear back from them again soon. Okay, now here's our interview. and we're going to call them and discuss the position before the interview as well. So, there's a lot of touch points throughout the process. It's a little bit different than the sworn process, and I'll let my colleagues talk about that. Um, where the recruiters doing most of the touch points on the civilian side, the HR specialists are going to be doing the touch points both electronically and telephonically. >> When y'all are out there, because I know the whole recruiting team, you guys tag team. Sometimes y'all go together like different events all over the state, all over the southeast. What are some of those things when when people come up to the table and want to talk to you about working as a civilian at the Penel County Sheriff's Office? What what do you share with them? >> I share with them primarily our work culture and the benefits that our agency can afford the members, which is huge. We have a great benefits package. We're part of the Florida retirement system. So, our employees are eligible for a pension and that's near impossible to find in the private sector. >> Yeah, for sure. >> So, that's a huge benefit to our to our members. Another huge draw for our agency specifically is that members who serve 25 years are able to stay on our health insurance even after they separate at member rate. And that's huge. And when I was 23, 24, I wasn't thinking about that at all. Um, but when you think about it, it's like, okay, if I do my career here and I exit, I want to be able to afford and enjoy my retirement. And we get a lot of individuals from other agencies who are coming to work here after they've done a full career just because they need that benefits piece. >> Yeah, that that's very rare in in law enforcement to give full health care afterwards, health insurance afterwards. And the sheriff's office has absorbed all of the health premium increases for our members for a multitude of years. >> Yeah. Do the best we can. >> So that that take-home paycheck looks a lot different when you take into consideration our salaries and our salaries that we post are your base salary. >> Doesn't include your the whole package. >> Doesn't include the whole package. And some agencies include overtime in their salary. We don't do that. That is your base pay. that the minimum guarantee that you're going to get. So, when you take that, combine that with the health insurance, low cost, your take-home pay reflects that. >> Yeah. And a good point make, you know, talk about when you're younger, not thinking about those things. And that is something I'm sure you guys come up, you know, with a lot because we have every time, you know, if we're presenting or talking to a group of teens or whatever, we always try to, you know, get our our HR plug in there talking about, hey, you know, you in some cases come straight out of high school, jump in one of these positions, start a career here. And, you know, even though even though we have to be 30 years to retire, if you start when you're 20 years old, you're retiring at 50 with a full pension, and you can go on to the next thing at that point. So, >> right. And you can stay on our healthcare. So you're not worried about having to find another job to to have that >> between 50 and 67. Yeah. >> So if you want a agency where you're working with like-minded folks, where you have lots of different career opportunities, where you're really supported in not just your professional but your personal growth, this is a really good agency to seriously consider. >> Oh yeah. And they encourage people to spread their wings and to look into other options. I know every time I have my reviews or he wants to know if I want any career counseling, if I want his help to get any place else, I'm like, "Nope, I'm happy right here." But the opportunity [laughter] is there. >> The opportunity is there and and that's a great choice at the end of the day, right? >> And depending on where you are, if you're interested, if you're, you know, depending on if you have the freedom and the availability where you are, depending on how busy you are, if you want to go learn about some other part of the agency, you can do it. I mean, we have folks all the time that'll come, you know, shadow and PR and check out what's going on. I know people do it in other places as well. Yeah, the admins have a great program where where they all go explore other aspects. They they did the um the PAT to find out what it would take to be to become sworn. >> Yeah, there's a great admin support group. Uh and and again, it's it's so easy in a large agency or really any agency regardless of size if you're hyperfocused on your job to kind of forget, hey, let's zoom out here. We're kind of stuck in our silo. And I think we do a really good job of giving folks the opportunity to to see beyond that. So, of those 187 civilian positions, which one is the coolest? Which one did you find out that you were like, "Oh, I didn't even know that was a thing." And >> my current one, 100%. [laughter] >> Good, good answer. >> True. True. >> Good answer. >> And it's my honest one so far because I get to interact with the public. I get to interact with fellow agency members. I help to help or I get to help encourage people to meet their career goals and be successful. It's just really exciting. >> Yeah. I I think we all probably would say our job is the coolest, which is which is a good problem to have. >> Good problem. >> Across the board. >> And if it ever changes, I have a lot of opportunities I [laughter] can look at. I was just thinking one thing that's cool about the admin position, the administrative assistant, you could end up being an administrative assistant at forensics where you get to be around all of that cool stuff that maybe would inspire you to maybe look into being a a specialist with them. So with those admin roles can put you in really neat positions. Mine my when I came here I was an administrative assistant and I was in patrol. So, I got to see a lot of, you know, flight deputies walking by and K-9 walking by and seeing all of that and just thinking it was the coolest thing. And now I get to walk around and go hang out with those people and film them. Um, so you can make your dream come true, >> right? >> So, >> yeah, Ashley's our rescue. We always we joke. [laughter] But I but I do it is so many of our of our folks especially the admin roles are truly like the backbone of of keeping this place going because we there are there are a couple in particular that's like oh don't you call them you need something they're going to take care of you like you give something to them you ask them for something they're going to take care of you and um that's such an important part of of any organization is the support staff and the people that are are really making things happen. So, well, Sarah, thank you for taking some time to talk to us about all the opportunities and all the the great things you guys do in recruiting world for civilians. And um you know, if you guys are out there, you have an interest in a civilian role, you can find Sarah. I know we'll do kind of a wrap-up at the very end and kind of cover the best ways to get in touch, but Sarah's here waiting for you. Thanks, Sarah. >> All right, great. Thank you, everyone. >> Now, we've got Deputy Brandon Tols, who's our corrections uh specializing recruiter. Uh travels all over with the rest of this gang trying to find the best the best. And uh welcome. Thanks for joining us. >> Thanks for having me. >> So, we want to talk with you a little bit about working at the jail. A lot of times when kids grow up, you know, there's plenty of kids who are like, I want to be a cop when I grow up. Not a lot of kids think automatically, I want to work in the jail when they grow up. But knowing a lot about the jail, as I do, and you know, so much more. It seems like a really great place to work for a variety of reasons. So, tell us why working in the jail should be like an aspirational job. Why why should people want to work there? >> Sure. Yeah, you hit it on the head. Um, I was one of those kids. I wanted to be a cop and then I started my career out in corrections for state prison and I never wanted to leave. So getting into corrections, that brotherhood and sisterhood that you have behind the walls, I just think it's different from being out there in the, you know, as a patrol deputy. Um, you get to work closely with your brothers and sisters every day. Um, you're dealing with the challenges together. So, at the end of that shift, you know, you leave out as one. You feel, you know, like we did this, you know, it's a family environment. >> What's uh what's the day-to-day aspect of the job like? I mean, people think it's inmates screaming at you, throwing stuff at you, out of control. It's a really scary place. Is it a scary place? >> It's not like the movies, okay? You know, so you're not walking through and they're yelling at you and shaking the gate and saying, "Come here." you know, we have systems in place that keeps order. Um, a dayto-day can it can vary. You do have those days where things pop off. Um, but it's a more controlled environment than people think it is. We're always there for each other. So, you get on the radio, you have somebody there to assist you in seconds, you know. So, >> on the road, you always have backup, but even the fastest backup still like a minute away in the jail. They're right on there, right? And and it's not just people that are close to you. There's people watching you on camera all the time. >> All the time. Yeah. I thought it was great that you said, you know, implying, you know, there's always some variety. Some days are And it's it's really no different than the road in that respect that you never know what you're going to get because you have different inmates coming in and out. And of course, it depends on the assignment as well because like the the law enforcement side, there are still a lot of different types of jobs in the jail. Um what uh what are some of those different assignments you can get? I mean and not just the specialty areas but just the nature of the different areas of the jail you can work in. >> Okay. So our jail has three different divisions. So you can work in our south division which is maximum custody inmates. Um and in that division you can work in confinement area. Um confinement is what we call the worst of the verse. They are the ones that can't cope you know in general population. So they receive the disciplinary reports and they find themselves in disciplinary confinement what people know as the whole you know >> so that's one one person right [laughter] >> um then you have healthc care um building which is our north division you get to work with those that need medical attention and mental health inmates you know so you're dealing with those that really can't cope in the general population so if you're someone that really likes to deal with someone that has mental health issues, that is a great division for you to be in. You know, there are some people that's really, really good at dealing with mental health individuals. They know how to talk them down. You know, you get an inmate that's having this chaotic moment and you know that person that can bring them down. You're like, "Hey, go get such and such." You know, and then you have our sentry division. Central division, you can work downstairs in intake um our processing area. >> So, that's when people are first arrested and first brought into the jail, right? >> Correct. Okay. So down there, that's where they get their facial recognition photo. That's where they get their change of uniform. Um, that's where the paperwork is processed. And then they go to the processing room where they're getting their fingerprints done, their mug shot, their medical screening, classification screening, which is for housing purposes. And then once they find out what housing location best fits you, it populates in the system that we use. And then you get escorted to your new housing location. And the housing location also in central is a direct supervision. So direct supervision is where there's it could be one deputy to 80 inmates. So you're directly into inside their housing location, >> which I think for an outsider sounds even more intimidating than working with with inmates who are in their single cells locked up. But these are the ones who either are cooperative, nice, low-level charges. These are the ones who can get along in a population. >> Correct. is is minimum custody to medium custody um inmates >> and they want to be there if you have to be in jail that's the place you want to be >> because you get some perks for being there you do get your microwave your hot water >> and that's all of course by design um and then Brandon you can all these areas you described you can move amongst those you know you bid for shifts much like they do uh on the law enforcement side so you can you can work somewhere for a while you're like hey this isn't for me I want to try something else you can move somewhere else >> absolutely every six months we get to bid so you know get get around. I always encourage people, get around, move around and see what best fits you, see what area is the area that you thrive in. You know, we all have different um purposes. So, if you're someone who enjoys connecting with the inmate population face to face and you're that one that really want to help someone um change their direction of life, direct supervision is the perfect place to be. Yeah, man. And to that point, the I remember that just blew my mind, the 80 to1, you know, ratio. Uh, but when you learn how I mean, you really, to your point, learn how to talk to people and communicate. Like, that is so key because we've had how many people on this podcast that, you know, actually started their careers in the jail or were still in the jail, but were like, this the key is learn how to talk to people. Like, that's your that's your most powerful weapon you have. >> That's what the job is about is knowing how to communicate. People think it's about you just standing guard or doing the checks of the cells, but no, it's it's talking to people. It's figuring out their psychology. It's Yeah, >> absolutely. >> It's under It's being interested in humanity and understanding humanity, basically. >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. You You have to know how to talk. You have to come in and be able to talk to someone. And if you don't, you learn how to, you know, you will learn it. Um there's people around to help you learn it. you know, we have mentors and people that's willing to take you under their wing and guide you. So talking would be your first tool. >> So what kind of uh what kind of person are you looking for? It would be somebody listening going that sounds this sounds actually kind of interesting. Like what kind of person who is that person? >> First you have to be teachable. looking for someone that's teachable, someone that wants to be a leader, someone that's looking to make a difference because you can make a difference in detention and corrections. You know, rehabilitation is our key. We want to get these people back into society. So, we're looking for that person that has that mindset that, hey, I want to help people return to society or I want to help, you know, the criminal justice system in a certain way. I believe the jail is the largest criminal justice, you know, component that we have and it's very important. >> And then um just for and and getting into we're going to we're going to talk to Danielle as well, but obviously we up the Annie on the process and the time frame to get folks in the door. Um so what uh first of all, you have a age um you have an age minimum. You have to be 19 uh to work at the jail. Um >> unlike the road, which we'll find out at the 21, right? Um, and it's and we're so I think it's I'm going to get this wrong. In Florida, it's 19 for law enforcement, but we say 21. We have a higher standard, I think. So, 19 is 19 for 19 for the jail. But, but so, you know, you want to get those people that have a little bit more life experience than an 18-year-old, I guess. Um, but we also have, and I guess to just fully uh kind of articulate the whole process, if you come in, uh, we have what's called a a recruit position, we have detention and or corrections and, um, law enforcement recruits where you can come in as a strapping 19-year-old. We will pay you uh, to go to the academy. we will pay your academy tuition and you can walk out of whatever job you're in and probably a year from now you're going to walk onto the floor of the jail uh and be a detention deputy. So kind of talk about what that process looks like. >> Yeah, I was going to say and by pay we mean deputy starting salary not you're getting the actual deputy starting salary while you're going to school. >> Correct. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So that process looks like once you submit your application and it goes through the HR screening process um they do a pre-background and once that pre-background is completed you are now being reviewed by a human resources supervisor once they give you a pass because it's pass or fail. So once you get a pass you start to get a an emailed or a phone call from a recruiter. So that's when we enter in. If we haven't met you prior to, you will hear from the recruitment team. Um then we start to set you up for a preliminary interview. That there is conducted by the command staff of that whatever component you're going into and that is also a pass or a fail. So once you go in there sounds intimidating. >> Yeah. >> You know, you have to come in with your agame, you know, come in, be ready to talk about yourself, kind of know what the job is about. >> That's what they're looking for. >> Do your research. >> Yeah. do your research. Um, and they give you that pass and you get assigned a background investigator. And from there, they start to schedule you for a certain appointment that you need for the process, which can be your physical abilities test, the polygraph, psychological evaluation, the jail tour, oral boards, and so on. Um, that process can take up to 22 weeks. Um, we do certain events where we try to streamline that process where you get to come in and do your preliminary interview, your physical abilities test, fingerprinting, and we're also trying to add on the jail tour all in one day. >> That's nice. Try to try to speed it up. Talk about the the physical piece a little bit because this is something that applies to both corrections and law enforcement. Yes. >> Um, >> that's something that I think a lot of people have trouble with. Yeah. If they don't know what they're in for. We we you know I it's always important to be prepared and and stuff and people sometimes you know with with what we're talking about with Sarah those kind of position it's like hey know what you're applying for and be ready to go and and be ready to be articulate but with this there is the physical component. So what is um what are those what is that assessment that they that they'll go through as an applicant? >> So that assessment is the Cooper test. So the Cooper test is broken up by age range and gender. So depending on your age range and your gender, there's a there's a certain amount of sit-ups and push-ups you have to do in a minute. There is a time that you're given for your mountain and a half run. There's a time that you're given for your 300 m um run as well as the vertical jump. So I always encourage people get out there, start running, get off the treadmill. The treadmill will kill you. It will set you up for failure. >> Why is that? because you're on that treadmill and it's >> inside air conditioned >> inside and it's a set pace. You have to keep up with that pace regardless. >> But once you do everything step by step and then you get out there and you run that mile and a half, it's it feels different being on that treadmill, reality kind of kicks in and you're like, I didn't know it was this bad. >> Plus doing a mile and a half every day, plus that Florida weather, >> right? [laughter] >> Yeah. >> So, so don't worry about getting your your bench up. It doesn't matter how much How much bench press? Yeah. >> Yes. >> And they have this is all accessible to them. They can see okay for my age, for my gender, this this is what I need to do between this and this many. >> Correct. >> So they can know before they get in, am I ready for this? >> Yes. It's because it's there's a link right there where they apply. >> A lot of people miss it. >> Okay. >> The link is right there and you click that link, it will give you that um that form that tells you what you need for that physical assessment test. Are the standards really really high? I mean, if you're if you're in good shape, can you get yourself to the point with a few months of training to do it? Absolutely. >> Or or is it these are not like Olympic standards or high standards, but not Olympic standards? >> No, it's not Olympic standards. >> I'm trying to think like can can you [laughter] what what would you know what yours would be like for your age more or less? Just to give people a standard, >> I probably have to do 22 situps. Um maybe 30 something situps. Um maybe 30 something sit-ups. 22 push-ups. My amount and a half maybe 17 minutes or something. >> Okay. Yeah. So reasonable. Yeah. Hard. Hard but reasonable. >> I think I can walk a 17minute mile and a half. >> You can kill it. Definitely. >> Speed walk. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. something. >> Well, cuz I did uh I did come out recently and kind of watch because I wanted to get an idea of what it is cuz we're looking to put together some some content to educate folks what it looks like. And it is, you know, it doesn't sound it doesn't on paper it's not horrible, but the sequence of what you do and go out there and do the 300, then go out there and do the mile and a half and then come in and do sit-ups after being outside in that like it's it'll humble you really quick. >> I just see an applicant throwing up in the hall on the way back from it [laughter] once. So, >> yeah. you know, you could see anything here. That's why, you know, we have such high >> part of the fun. >> Part of the fun. Yeah. Um, would you say is the physical I mean, for that portion, right? Because we're talking about that's part of the application process and for a a detention recruit that's going to be before they're even going to go to the academy. So, is is that kind of where you see most folks that that'll wash out or is it kind of spread out throughout the process like maybe once the academy starts? >> It it spreads out. you do get a few in that physical part of it that just can't do it >> because you have to pass that physical ability test to even move forward in the hiring process >> because it's something that's required in the academy, >> right? >> Um but far as wash out, we lose a lot of people in the polygraph. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Which is good to weed those out because telling the truth is important. >> Very important. [laughter] Um, and for, you know, somebody that might be hearing this, uh, and going, you know, I this I think I think I want to do this, but I'm not sure. Are there any good opportunities in the jail for a nonsworn to get in and kind of get exposed to to the the kind of culture and the nature inside the jail? >> Yeah. To see if that's for them. >> Absolutely. So, we have a position that's called a criminal justice specialist. We call it CJS. Um, you're essentially working in our control rooms. So, you are in charge of opening doors, viewing the security cameras, keeping up with the daily log, um, letting the deputies know about certain inmate movement that's required, um, certain schedules that pop up on the system, and you get a firsthand look at what the deputies do. You get to see, hey, that's how they handle that situation. I think I can do that. And you get to ask those questions because you're right there with >> working with the deputies >> and that's a super important and crucial job. They're they're your eyes. They're keeping you safe. They're monitoring everything that's that you guys are doing and the inmates are doing. >> Correct. And we have a lot of great tenur CJS's that make which is great. Absolutely fantastic. But but yeah, it's a it's the jail is definitely, you know, you can't just go on a ride along the law enforcement side. So it's definitely a place where it would be good to kind of get a >> but they feel do citizens academy. They can do citizens academy and there's a good way for you civilian to see what the jail is like on the inside. One of the few ways >> you get a taste of a lot of things if you do citiz. >> Okay. So the Cooper test that's like you said part of the application process but from my understanding also at the academy there's a lot of physical requirements there. So not only do you just hey yeah I passed the test I'm good to go. when you go to the academy, those those expectations they they kind of grow, do they not? >> They do. So, when you're in the academy, you are expected to come in and keep up with the physical pace of the academy. Um, there are days where they call them smoke sessions. There are days you're going to come in and constantly have to do situp after situp, push-up after push-up. You know, there are days that you're going to have to go out there and run and run and run. And it's not just passing the Cooper test. You have to be physically fit and keep up with the physical expectations of the college. >> So the Cooper test is really like, yeah, they're capable of it if they kind of keep doing that. You know, >> let's see what else they can do. Yeah. >> And I'm sure a lot of it is seeing that they can improve, too. And just seeing they have uh they have grit, like they're not going to quit. >> They're not just going to, you know, lie down. They're going to keep running even if they're running slowly. >> Yeah. And that's what it's all about, not giving up. Mhm. Cuz you can't give up in a fight. >> That's right. Stay in a fight. Are you going to be there for me when I need you on that fifth floor and you're down on the first floor trying to get up those stairs? Can you get up there to me? Can you get up there to your brother or your sister? We're looking for that person. >> So, if you had like a like a young cousin or a neighbor 19, 20 years old who was didn't know what they wanted to do, just kind of looking around the world. What would you tell them about the jail? >> Tell them come be a part of it. It's somewhere where you can grow as an individual. You can really learn a lot about yourself working there. Like, oh man, I didn't know I was that good at helping somebody. I didn't know I was such a good talker. Like, how did I get that dude to do that? I have no idea. You know, you learn a lot about yourself and it's a great place to develop yourself. No matter what you want to do in life, I think the jail can teach you it. We can teach you how to be a leader, you know, but you have to be teachable. You have to want it. Um, you can come in and have a great opportunity to advance, you know, there is advancement opportunities. So, you can come in and be more than a deputy. You can become that supervisor. You know, you can make that difference that you wanted when you were the deputy, you know. So, you you obviously all spent some time at some job fairs, might be competing with some other agencies for uh for the cream of the crop. What are some of the things that uh you tell applicant or potential applicants, hey, you know, come over to come over to the Penelis County Sheriff's Office? >> How do you sell it? >> First, I I'm just very transparent with it. I tell them, hey, first of all, we're the best of the best. We're the best agency that's out here. I give them my experience coming to the agency of what I was looking for and I saw that this was an agency where the sheriff first of all cares about his people. You don't want to work nowhere where they don't care about their people. And if you're trying to go into, you know, come in as a detention deputy, we sponsor you. There's not many people that's going to pay for that academy and pay you that's that good salary while you're going through the academy. We have great benefits. It's a family environment and there's advancement opportunities. You can come in and advance however you choose to advance if you put the work in. It's all about your work ethic and your character. >> One thing I've heard is that our uh like our our recruitment booth, our display is so much nicer than everybody else's. Is that true? >> It is, man. We get a lot of attention. >> Yeah. just well and I think that's indicative of of a lot about the agency because if we put a lot of investment and time and design into that and we look sharp just where we send you you know guess what what equipment you're going to have and what training you're going to have >> that's part of it >> makes everything seem top-notch >> yeah that is true you know you look at that great backdrop and you're like if they have that I know that they are giving me the best equipment they're giving me the best training >> and for sure we're giving you the best pay >> is where we're located part of the cell at all? >> Oh, yeah. >> Oh, absolutely. People love the beaches. >> You know, when we speak to these individuals that are coming from up north, >> they're like, "We're tired of the snow. They're ready to come play in the sand." >> And I tell them, "Come on, we will be happy to have you." >> And and you know, the other thing too that again is something that on paper looks pretty intimidating, but y'all are on 12-h hour shifts, uh, as is as is patrol. to the law enforcement side as well. But that's when you look at the totality of it like you're working what is it 14 or 15 days a month. >> Yeah. >> So [clears throat] that's you know if you're coming from an agency with different shifts or or whatever or again if you're looking at it for a career like that's on average you know we know how many days are on a month. So you got half a month off. >> Right. >> Right. If you want you can have a whole week off. So that week that you only work that Wednesday and Thursday you take that Wednesday and Thursday off you have an entire week off. Mhm. >> Lot of flexibility and good of course good PTO and and uh all that good stuff as well. >> So on the 12elves you're always you're getting every other weekend off. >> Every other Friday, Saturday, Sunday. >> Yeah. >> Someone asked one time if it's a Pitman schedule and when I looked it up it is. >> Is that what it's called? [laughter] >> Pitman schedule. I was so I was like yes. >> Yeah. Yes it is. >> Pitman was some genius. >> Do you have any [snorts] stories about bad applicants? What what can what can people do that can definitely end all chance of being hired? Um, first of all, just not telling the truth. You know, they we have some applicants, they put one thing on the application and then they'll go to their polygraph and say another thing or even at the psych evaluation, they'll tell the site doctor one thing and it's like, what are we doing? >> So, application, I never smoked pot. First interview, yeah, I smoked a couple times in college, >> right? >> Polygraph. Uh, >> different story, >> right? Is there, this is maybe a dumb question, but after they've applied and um they're slightly through the process, but they haven't gone through the poly or anything like that. Is there a point where you're like, hey, just so you know, like they're going to were were you completely do you have any opportunity to be like, let me add things to this application that I was nervous about prior. Is there or is it like no, you should have been totally upfront? So there is there is a moment where you sit with your background investigator. They call it the administrator interview and they go through your entire application. And there are moments in there where you can clarify some things with your background investigator. Um if you get past that and you haven't fixed that and we found out later, there's no helping you. >> We only can help those that want to help themselves. >> Yeah. But I mean that there's the opportunity there. There is one that exists. So yeah, if you thought about it, I remembered a few more times. I remembered this thing I did. >> Yeah. Okay. >> And then the polygraph or whatever, you know, whether it's the sworn side or the CVSA for the civilian side, like they're just going over those same answers again. So all you got to do is be consistent. You're good. >> Yeah. It's the same questions over and over. There's no surprises. What is a psych test like? >> And that's something that's done for all of the sworn positions. So for corrections and Leo, >> there's a bunch of questions >> and they repeat themselves. >> Yeah. the >> like hundreds and hundreds of questions. It's a really long I I took it a long time ago. A few times, but >> and it's you're answering the same thing, but a few times. >> Well, [laughter] I I applied different places. There's >> Okay. Okay. >> Yeah. >> Got it. I was curious. I said >> I [laughter] I failed and then I studied. >> I got better. >> I learned what normal is. And uh [laughter] >> yeah, it's it's a lot of questions and they're asked in different ways. >> So So some people it gets to them. I don't know what some people their mindset is. They >> Yeah. You know, they're like >> So if you can't handle being asked the same thing over and over again, different ways in different ways. >> In different ways. It's >> Yeah, >> it's repetitive. >> I feel like I heard there's a question where it's like, "Have you ever stole anything?" And so it will be like variations of that sometimes. I don't know if that's something that can be in here, but >> yeah, >> everything's available online. I'm sure they could Google what what's on a law enforcement psych test and they would give sample questions and yeah, probably we rarely give away any secrets here. But what what would what would applicants what could the applicants do to make your job easier? >> Just read. >> But yeah, like like all the information that we give you >> is all there. It's it's on the website. >> Click on the link. Yeah. >> Scroll to the bottom of the page. Know what the job is actually about. >> Yeah, that would go a long way. do a little bit of basic homework, >> just a little, but I'm here for it. >> Well, Brandon, thanks for thanks for joining us. Um, >> it's uh again, we have the civilian piece, but the corrections piece is another one that people just don't think about. We appreciate you guys uh giving us some insight on that and for all you guys do trying to make sure we've got the uh best of the best in the jail. So, thanks for coming on. We appreciate it. >> Thank you. >> All right. And now, the area we're most familiar with when you think law enforcement, actual boots on the ground, on the streets, our deputies. We have Deputy Daniel Kurtscraber um who is our dedicated law enforcement recruiter to kind of talk about the nuances of that because as we kind of said at the top recruitment is a huge problem that is universal to law enforcement. So, you know, what is uh what is your best pitch? You know, when you're meeting with folks out there, when you're at job fairs or whatever, what do you tell them about coming to work here in Penelis County? I'm looking for people that have heart and actually want to do this job for the right reasons, not just for the aesthetics, but they actually want to get out and serve their community. >> And and what you know, we've kind of chatted with the others as well. Well, especially with Brandon, but what um what really is there any a different type of person you're looking for that would be wanting to be in the correction space than the law enforcement space? Is there a difference there? >> It depends. If the first time I'll ask them if they're they come up to the table and they're like, "Hey, I want to get into law enforcement." Okay. Well, are you interested in working in detention and corrections or patrol operations? And most people don't know the difference. So, I'll have to break it down for them. Okay, are you wanting to work in the jail or are you wanting to go to calls for service? And that's where we can then divide and conquer. So, if someone wants to go to detention corrections, I might focus more with having them talk to Brandon. Then, if they want to go to the road, then I'll jump in and I'll talk to them. >> So, do you occasionally do you kind of bounce applicants back or potential applicants back and forth sometimes then? >> Yeah, that's uh it's interesting though that I guess, you know, with what we see and us pushing our different things we have going on with positions, like the idea of somebody being like just wandering up to a job fair like, "Hey, I don't know what I want to do for the rest of my life. Do I want to do this?" I mean, because they are very different. Oh, yes. Um, and both have their pros and cons, you know, for sure. And takes a different type of person. >> Um, you know, what are some of the other challenges that we run into with recruiting for for law enforcement specifically? people that aren't prepared and they may have thought about going into law enforcement for some time, but they really haven't done their independent research to find out, okay, yeah, you want to be a cop, but why? What do you want to do? How have you have you even started preparing? Have you looked at different agencies? Do you know what the requirements are? So, we help guide them. Also, it's not just trying to sell them a job. We try and educate them and help them look for really what they want. And if they really are wanting to go to the Penel County Sheriff's Office, okay, then we're going to have a little bit more of a longer conversation and see if this is the right fit for not only them but for us as well. >> We've definitely heard, you know, with Sarah talking about obviously some of the civilian positions are obviously a long-term career or it's a good foot in the door. Um, you know, we've also seen people start on the correction side and come over to the law enforcement side. So, it it seems to be like ultimately you you have a lot of options for people that like, hey, I'm not sure. Well, here, let's try one of these options. >> Oh, absolutely. So, if somebody's interested in getting into law enforcement, I will ask them, okay, have you thought about dispatching first? No. Oh, I I don't want to do dispatching. I I couldn't do it. Well, why can't you be a dispatcher? Because that's where I started. I was a dispatcher for 5 years prior to coming to the road. And that tremendously helped me. I'm a Penelis native, which I already had an advantage of knowing the area. But being a dispatcher allowed me to learn the agency as a whole, and learn how to process the information, handle calls for service on the phone and over the radio, and also understand the language that we use with the 10 codes and signals. So now all I had to do was go to school, learn how to be a cop, and then implement that on the road. >> The rest of it you were comfortable with. >> Yes. Well, that and you can also handle the adrenaline from the calls and stuff. I I feel like that takes a special type of person. And I feel like if you can handle that at the call level, then you may be able to handle it when you're actually physically there. >> Oh, absolutely. >> And the multitasking when you're a dispatcher, you're looking at five different screens, you have handling multiple calls at once. And when you're on the road, you're >> on your computer, you're talking on the radio, you're looking for the guy with a gun, you're looking for your backup. Lot going on. >> So my question, you were saying that sometimes applicants don't really know a whole lot about the agency or what they want. Is that typically something you see with a younger audience, maybe college age, or is that kind of across the board? >> It's across the board because we talk to high school students, college students, athletes in particular, and then we go to just job fairs across the state and it is really there's no age limit. We talk to everybody and they may express interest at a very young age or they're on their second or third career and they're like, "Hey, I want to do something different. I'm tired of sitting at home. I want to work the road." So we obviously and we talked about it a little bit. Um it's kind of out there well established. We do the the recruit program, right, which is is really cool. We do it for the detention side obviously as well. Um and you're taking people potentially some people that maybe want that career change that you mentioned, but you're also taking people that you know were maybe working in the service industry, you know, just coming out of that trying to get established and now they're jumping into this. um which is obviously I think by design very difficult the process um but uh then you also the other option the other way we get folks is and I think I would guess it would be the preference is you're taking like lateral transfers from other agencies you're coming from other states where we just we we're constantly doing big pushes with uh you know targeting the northeast and different places where particularly during the winter it sucks so come on down uh you know we just did a new recruiting video the tagline was you know we we work for you vacation so um Is that a preference really? I mean, you take whatever you can get, but if we can get somebody that's got 10, 15, 20 years wanting to come down for a change of scenery, that's that's where the money's at. >> Well, so to speak, >> we look for the overall in the candidate of what because we're we're very fortunate that we're not desperate looking for people, but so what that allows us to take our time and to really focus on people who are serious. I mean, there's opportunities for our applicants to come and work out with us and get ready for the Cooper standard so they know, hey, forget the gym. get a nice pair of, you know, sneakers or tennis shoes or something and hit the road. Start sprinting, start running, doing your push-ups and your sit-ups, doing a vertical jump. Get yourself conditioned to the Florida heat and humidity, which is what you're going to be exposed to in the academy. But as for our lateral transfers, Florida is a different state in law enforcement. So, that alone is attractive for other people that are maybe living outside of Florida. >> What are some of the differences? I know we're a lot more um we can do a lot more I think down here than people can in a lot of other states and >> we're we're just very our state and our agency cuz I I talk to people all over the country and I learn a little bit about each of their agencies and what they don't have or what they do have or what the law enforcement officers wish that they had and we have a lot of opportunity and the biggest thing that I like to touch on is growth. People that come here are not just confined to patrol. They're not just confined to one area. they have the ability to move around, which that not might not be possible at another agency. So, if they have aspirations on becoming a canine handler or if they want to become a detective through our investigative operations bureau, they have that opportunity. They have excellent training that they can go to and the agency will provide that for them. That might not be something that their agencies do cover. And then I also like to highlight the benefit package because we're very fortunate. I do see a lot of people that have retired and they're still looking for something else to support themselves and their family and it's unfortunate because they have worked their entire career and now they're trying to start all over again. So if they get started here, they get into a good retirement system, you're just going to be overall set at the end. >> And not to mention, you can you retire at you can retire at 50. Like it's 25 years of somebody starts in their 20s, right? So you could be retiring at 50 >> with a whole lot of money with full health insurance >> while they're still young. They they can do another job. They can travel the world. They can just relax. Absolutely. I think a lot of people don't think of that when they're in their 20s. They're not think it's going to come eventually. You're going to be 45 or 50 one way or another. >> You might as well have a really nice pension at the end of that, >> right? And then you can still go do something else if you want. Or you could lateral somewhere else and, you know, do something more low-key or if you have a specialty >> or try another agency and realize how good you had it here. [laughter] And then >> grass isn't always greener >> as many have learned. Um and kind of just back to the differences because we get a lot of questions um when we do Q&A and things, you know, haven't seen them as much recently, but we'll get, you know, well, what's the what's the advantage of working at a sheriff's office versus a local police department and and it's really just that I mean in Florida in particular, uh sheriff's offices have a lot of responsibilities that police departments don't. uh doesn't make them necessarily better or or whatever, but there's just more opportunities because, you know, the responsibility of local police department stops at the you know, boots on the ground on the street, you know, investigations and of course we have other special units like you mentioned, but also in Florida, you know, law enforcement is um much more highly revered as it than it is in other states. Uh we have support >> and our county in particular is very very law enforcement friendly. People are surprised when I know when they come from other states that people smile and wave at them when they're out there working, which places I've had citizens come up to me when I'm at an intersection and they pull right on up and at first that's not a comfortable feeling. [laughter] So you look over and it's somebody just giving you the thumbs up or waving and they're like, "Thank you so much." I'm like, "Thank you. Have a great day." >> Appreciate it. Don't do that again. You scared me. [laughter] U but we have that too. So, that's one of the many things and and really kind of an organic benefit of uh of coming to work here in Florida. Um, let's talk about the application process. Um, and I know we it's long. We know that. Um, we know it's it's nuanced and and has a lot, you know, happening with it. Um, but let's just kind of talk through that. And let's kind of talk through that as a recruit coming in. So, this is a this is somebody off the street, no law enforcement experience. um you know what does that look like? >> So they can go online to our website and look for on the careers page there's all the open postings that we have and we update our careers page weekly. So, if they are looking to get into the law enforcement recruit side, they'll click into the portal and they'll have to create an account and they're able to make their application. But there's a lot of information that's already put on that posting as far as the duties and responsibilities, also the requirements, and then information about benefits, pay, information about the academy tattoo policy. There's a lot of information that people don't look at or they don't take the time to read and they just automatically see either my email or deputy tolls and they reach right out to us and try and ask us these clarifying questions which >> from a law enforcement officer's perspective you're missing attention to detail. >> Right. >> Yeah. You can't do that little bit of investigation just to read to the end of the page. >> Yes. So once they submit the application it goes through a review process and there's a preliminary questionnaire that they have to fill out. But if they answer something incorrectly, they're automatically going to get turned away, which they're the knockout questions. So, if they make it through that process, then they'll get reviewed by one of our specialists. After everything is reviewed, then they'll put it to a supervisor within human resources. Once a supervisor approves their application to continue in the hiring process, that's when the recruitment process or the team will step in and we're with them throughout [clears throat] the entire time until the sheriff signs off on their file. And that's just maintaining communication and letting them know, hey, what what the next step is or how you should prepare for the next step coming up. >> And there are a lot of things of course that based on they on them can delay things as well, like you've got to get this scheduled, you got to get that scheduled. So there's a lot and just kind of staying engaged with that. >> Absolutely. And communication is key and we're looking for the best of the best. We're looking for people that want to invest in us so we can invest in them. And the hardest thing that I see is people Yeah. They they're really excited and they're beating down the door to come into our building, but when the background process starts, they're not responsive to the background investigators. And we had 395 applications come through for the last academy class that's currently in the academy right now. We took 15. That that's huge. And again, we're we see people fall out for different reasons throughout the hiring process. But it is really rewarding when we see somebody come in, they're squared away, they have their ducks in a row when it comes to their paperwork, their appointments, everything is getting knocked out, and then they get that phone call that the sheriff signed off on their file, and then you're seeing them graduate the academy 6 months later. That is so rewarding. >> That's pretty awesome. Yes. >> So, so back into the process, though, because um at one point there's that panel interview. >> Yes. >> And I think >> all the lieutenants, right? I just, you know, for a recruit and we, you know, we have, um, we haven't, we've been busy, we haven't done it in a while, but we have an internship program that we, you know, ramp up when we're able and bringing in some of these college kids for this really intimidating interview because we have every area of the agency that is hosting that would be hosting the intern. We all serve on the panel and there's, you know, four, five, six of us sitting at this table and this is for an internship and these kids like we've seen them just almost fall out because they're nervous. But to take that same type of person and put them in front of a panel of lieutenants, you know, and I I know I've heard um that they can get pretty intense with the questioning in there because they're I mean I'm sure intentionally trying to kind of, you know, get to the bottom of who this person is. How many people do we lose at that stage alone? >> It depends really. It depends on the candidate >> to that point. What have we done with them up until that point? >> So that is just the preliminary interview. That is right after their application gets approved and then they get into basically a waiting room. So when we establish a dates that or a date that works for the lieutenants, we'll schedule the preliminary interview and there will be a sergeant to run the interview. There will be three lieutenants in there, but they're all from the law enforcement side and either that can be done if they're out of the state, they can do a virtual interview or they can come in person if they're in the area. But it's it's not a hard interview and it shouldn't be. And if it's going to be hard if you haven't prepped yourself and you don't know anything about the agency and we've had that happen. We've had people come in that are not dressed to and ready to go for business. They have no idea who our sheriff is. They have no idea who we are as an agency and they're sitting in a chair wanting a job. That's >> they come in thinking we're poke or pass or >> Yes. all the time. So, >> and when you say they're not dressed appropriately, does that just mean they for didn't wear a tie or how how inappropriately? >> Jeans and a t-shirt or something low cut revealing. Yeah. It's It's not. So, that's where my part comes in. And I try and catch them beforehand. I'll prep them and let them know, hey, you're here for a job. You're here for an interview. And even though you're not wearing a uniform right now, you could be one day. That is your overall goal. So, dress like you're here for business. Wear a suit and tie. If you don't have a suit and tie, I'm not expecting you to go break the bank, but at least prep yourself. But going back to the interview, it's an it goes two ways. We need to know who you are, but you also need to know if this is a good fit for you. The interview should always work both ways. It's just a hey, get to know you. Is this something that you really want to get into? What do you know about the agency and why should we pick you? It's not a hard interview, but I do have people reach out to me and they're like, well, hey, can you tell me, you know, what I'm going to be asked? Well, it's a preliminary interview. We we don't know you, so tell us who you are. >> Be prepared and be prepared. Um, you know, the other piece, too, obviously there's the background interview with a detective and everything and and we use the polygraph as a tool. um really just through that process. But I've always found it interesting how people can blow that. >> Yes. >> Because your interview I mean this is going back this is for civilians as well obviously this there's obviously differences for sworn versus nonsworn but it's still the basic process. You sit there and you know you fill out the application and the detective basically goes over your application with you to make sure everything's accurate and then you just all you have to do is answer the questions the same, >> right? >> You know, but I know that still washes a ton of people out. It does. And a lot of people like to hide things. Be upfront and honest. That is the biggest thing. We understand that people have made mistakes in the past, but as long as you can own those mistakes and move forward and change going forward, you're not going to have an issue, but it's the people that try and come in and already try and hide it or try and manipulate the system. No, we don't have time for that >> because you can't be a liar and do this job because everything that you write is basically a sworn statement. You can't go testify in court that this happened if you have a history of untruthfulness. >> That's right. >> What um what mistakes are considered acceptable? [laughter] >> Because that that's a wide you know my mistake is somebody's like you know like oh that's nothing. >> We [clears throat] can say jaywalking okay homicide not but somewhere in between. >> Somewhere in between. Yeah that those decisions come from above me. So I encourage everybody to that are the serious candidates at least to still apply because the application doesn't just stop with me. I'm there as your as your motivator but for those decisions that is made by supervision and they look at everything as a whole. It's not just one particular thing and if we have more qualified applicants which is mostly the case then they'll receive the notice that we're closing their file. I don't know if you can answer this, but I think a lot of people are concerned that if they've smoked pot for a period of their life, I mean, they maybe they went to college and that's what people do. Is that a disqualifier? I mean, it could be if they hide it, but if this is something where it was, you know, years and years and years ago and you're trying to hide it and it comes up on a polygraph like, well, yeah, I used, you know, I smoked weed back in high school. Well, why didn't you say that up front? What else are you hiding? So, like I said, everybody makes mistakes. Everyone does silly things, but it's the ownership is where we really rely heavily on. So, >> yeah. And I mean, and I I think too, I mean, you have the disqualifying questions on the application itself. So, if you can answer those, I think it's fair to say if you can answer those truthfully and still be able to apply, then pretty much anything else is open to further, you know, discussion >> as long as you, you know, hit those time frames or whatever since drug use or or whatever it is, um or nicotine use. >> So, what are some of the big ones on the application? Like, have you had a felony arrest, that kind of thing. >> Yeah, there's there's absolute disqualifiers. There's a decent amount of knockout questions and we'll have people just do blanketing answers like no, have you ever been the the subject, the witness or ever arrested or detained by law enforcement? People put no. So when they go through the application process and the specialists reveal that there is a criminal history for this person, it's like, okay, the math is not mathing, right? You put here that you were never detained or arrested at any point in time, but your criminal history shows something different. So just be transparent. >> Um we covered a lot of the recruit you know the how the sponsorship process works. We covered that with Brandon. Um but uh is there anything um else you know rel like there's there is some difference between obviously the corrections academy and the uh law enforcement academy kind of what are those differences? Um really that because it's just there's a couple more things for law enforcement. Correct. >> Yes. It's a longer academy. So the detention and corrections one is three months and the law enforcement side is six months. And you're learning basic patrol operations, vehicle operations, they I mean there's so many other details that are incorporated in the schedule for law enforcement recruits and then the training for in-house is longer. It's 10 weeks and then the FTO process is 14 weeks. >> So that's a and then that's and that's you know people again don't realize like how long that is. I mean just the application process getting to the academy. I mean, I think we say generally like for law enforcement, you walk in the door, you you walk out of Chick-fil-A or Chipotle, you walk in the door here, you get hired. How long is it before you're on the street as a deputy sheriff by yourself? >> It's a long time. >> Like a year, north of a year. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Because you go through the academy, you go through our in-house, you go through FTO and make it. So, it's a it's a uh it's an extensive process. >> Oh, absolutely. And the reason for that is because our deputies are very well trained. I remember my first day getting into a cruiser and you know you look over to your passenger side expecting to see your FTO there like oh this is real okay >> here we go >> I'm by myself I'm a big girl now [laughter] >> that's got to be rewarding though too once you get through all of this and >> Oh yes >> so uh sorry you have some >> I was going to say people come in here with one idea of what law enforcement is all about and maybe they look really good on paper and they do really well in the academy where everything is theoretical um and and then they get out here to a certain point and they realize it's not for them. What happens then >> that depending on if they're that individual is offered another opportunity within our agency but that's going to be done at a different level than the human resources at least for the the deputies and human resources that that's typically going to involve the chain of command and then for what happens that that's beyond me. >> How do how do you feel then when that happens put so much investment in somebody and then they're they're just not quite right. There might be some we are law enforcement. You're going to see terrible things and you it's hard to replicate and put that person through a training scenario with like let's say the physical stress at the academy, right? Physical, mental, emotional stress that you're going to get there. That that's only a small portion, but you're going to get called for a terrible day for somebody else. Whether that be losing a loved one or a almost fatal crash or death investigation or or something or you know a shots fired call everybody or a drowning you know everyone responds to stress differently and if they come forward and say hey listen I'm this is not for me I thank you for the opportunity I highly commend that person for having the courage to say that versus let's say staying in the process and they're still on the road and things hit the fan and they're just checked out. >> Yeah. because now you're potentially I I mean you're you're going to put people in danger. Not only yourself, but you're putting your backup up your brothers and sisters in uniform and the citizens of Penelis County, you're putting them in danger because you're you you can't move forward from what's preventing you. And if and if you can't realize that for yourself and have the courage, then I I just that doesn't sit well with me because now you're you're a threat to somebody else. >> So just be upfront about it like you are through the whole process and that's fine. And then so for somebody and then I know that uh somebody that if if they get any incentives for hiring or they do the academy like they're a recruit we pay for their academy at some point I mean they still have to repay that money back if it doesn't work out right. >> Yes. Potentially >> got to recruit some of that because that's the other piece is like we've invested so much time uh and effort in these individuals by the time they get to that point which is I think goes back to why it's really important to do your research talk to people. I mean, we've been out at events before and folks have come up to us and said, "Hey, you know, I want to really talk to somebody, you know, and you guys weren't there or whatever and we I've pointed people off to go talk to deputies and and younger people just, you know, want to ask them all kinds of questions." And, you know, I think that's good to kind of make that effort to come and and check things out. And we've actually started to get a lot of people through Citizens Academy that are younger that are interested in a career so they that's what they're doing. So, I think it's I think like anything else that you do, any career you're going to get into, um, >> you know, that's that's what you need to do is just >> go in with your eyes open. >> Yeah. Especially for something that like law enforcement or really any career path we have here, but especially law enforcement for those reasons because there's just things you can't simulate. You know, we can heighten, we can scare people, we can whatever it in-house and do the different drills and whatever, but until you see that >> dead child or or whatever it is, like you you just don't know. >> Nope. You don't know how your body's going to react to stress. But then we I also talk to them about having a a good support system that a healthy support system whether that be working out or doing something. Have a great connection with your family members or friends that you can talk to different groups that if you need something, but it has you have to have a balance outside of this line of work. You have to turn it off when you go home because you can't just let that cuz that's going to spill into your family and that's going to overall poor health condition for them. So we really it this goes beyond recruitment because I I really want the best for our agency, but I also want the best for the individual because you're making a decision to run towards bullets. That's not a normal job description. >> Correct. >> And you have to know that going in. That can't be a surprise to you. And if it is a surprise, then we probably had a different conversation. >> But again, you know, we I'm looking for people that want to be here and actually need to be here. So you said that for precerts, people who have their certification either elsewhere in the state or outside of the state, there's a there's a hidden gem here that might be perfect for them. >> Yes. >> What's that? >> That is a criminal court security squad. So working inside the courthouse. >> Tell us about that. >> So that is the hidden gem. They're getting paid the same amount as a patrol deputy, but they're working in the courthouse normal hours, mostly weekends, holidays off, and every once in a while if they have a jury deliberation that will run over, then they might have to stay a little bit later. But everyone out there loves what they do. And I mean, I have people from all over the country interested. I have retired captains, chiefs, lieutenants, you name it. But also just deputies or officers that have been established for years, and they're looking for something different. They're not necessarily wanting to respond to calls for service and do 12-hour shifts because they're going to have to work both days and nights at some point during FTO. So >> if somebody is looking for a change in a career path, but they still want to wear the uniform and still be a pillar of professionalism in the courthouse and be a good role model for the guys and girls that are coming in to testify because that's always reassuring when you have somebody squared away in the courtroom. >> It's it's like, you know, just another motivator to to do a good job when you're testifying. But that is really a sweet spot to have. And we really have like it is a hidden gym and there are some gyms out there like there's folks that come with I was just out there the other day talking to Deputy Paws who came from Tampa PD's motor unit uh who actually has done some motorcycle safety presentations for us cuz we discovered that he's out there and he was a social media star over at Tampa. again, you want, you know, he had to he had to he was aged out where he was. So, he came over here and tried to do the retirement thing. It's like, yeah, you know, not so much. And you still kind of get the exposure to it. And and people also don't realize that, you know, baiffs is what, you know, people refer them to as, but they're all law enforcement certified. They're all deputy sheriffs. So, >> absolutely, they're getting the same pay, same benefits, but with better days off and climate control. >> It's it's more than saying all rise. And I think a lot of people don't understand that. They're like, "Oh, I don't want to be bored in courthouse." Have you seen what goes on inside of a courtroom? There's a lot of moving pieces. There's >> I have never been to the courthouse for any no matter how long or short that I was standing there and something was like, oh, it's never happened. So, it is a very interesting place. Like, don't let the don't let you know the way we're framing this, hey, it's it's a cool place to go, you know, slow down. It is not. [clears throat] I mean, that place is >> from the surface you're like, oh. But you go out there, it's like, holy cow. >> You need to know how to be a cop before you go there. We we don't take anybody that's right out of the academy because there's no FTO process that teaches you how to be a law enforcement officer. So, you already know how to handle your business and what to do when you're inside the courtroom because anything can happen. You know, you have you've got the criminal side and then you have the civil side. And regardless, there's emotions there. There's emotions brewing, especially if they don't get the outcome that they're hoping for. Yeah. >> So, you got to really be on your game. >> Yeah. And people are coming out there that don't know what they're there for. They don't know what they're doing. There's just they have to really be a jack of all trades. So, >> yes. >> All right. All right. Well, Danielle, thanks for coming. We appreciate it. >> Thanks for having me. >> Um, >> you're the last of the three recruiters we're talking to, so you get to make kind of the final pitch for the agency overall. You want to learn more about available positions. Where do you go? What do you do? >> Go to the Panelis County Sheriff's Office website, learn about the open careers that we have, watch the videos, and of course, listen to the 56 podcasts. >> Well, absolutely. So, that's panel sheriff.gov/careers. Um, they can also call um they can talk to y'all directly. Do you guys have a general email address that goes to all the recruiters? >> Yes. So, if they go to the posting for either the law enforcement positions or the detention corrections positions, our emails are on there. So, they are more than welcome to email us. That's actually the preferred method because we're not just confined to a desk. We travel all over the place. So, it really just depends. I would rather have them reach out via email. >> Yeah. That way you because you guys are busy. You're traveling all over all over the place. So, >> next month we're going out of state, too. So, we're ramping up. Yes. >> Taking it on the road. So, uh, but yeah, thanks again. If you do have an interest in any careers, um, again, jump on the website, follow us on social, engage, uh, and reach out to the recruiters if you have questions. They're happy to answer them. Uh, we'd much rather to the point of what we've heard all day, you know, talking with y'all is, you know, we'd rather you get the questions out of the way before you get too far into the process and realize you sign up for something you didn't want to sign up for. So, thanks again to Danielle and all of our other guests from HR, our recruiters. Um, hope you all enjoyed this episode. We're going to keep uh experimenting with these types of things, kind of diverting from the norm, but uh we still want your feedback. And Laura, if you were want to give us some feedback or stay engaged with us, how would you go about doing that? >> Now that we're doing more topic based podcasts, if you have a a topic that you'd like to learn more about, you could email us at let's56pcset.com. >> And then, of course, you can engage with us on Instagram and that's just spelled [music] out 56podcast uh on Instagram and we put a lot of content there. So, we thank you all for listening and talk to you next time.